₦airaland Forum

[quote author=okada_man link=topic=847649.msg9981808#msg9981808 date=1326773428]Subsistence Agriculture rely on diesel?

I'm tired. No hope for the gullible.[/quote]Yes, it does. Produce gets to the market by diesel power:

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Katsumoto:
Beaf,

Both Idiagbon and Mohammed were removed through coups.

Approaches to solving a problem can be different but the approach usually chosen is the one that causes the least pain to the people. I still fail to see how anyone can justify removing a subsidy of 1.2 Billion (this was inflated from an initial figure of 300billion) which benefits 160 million people when approximately 500 useless and corrupt lawmakers are earning 1.3 Billion annually. My position is further strenghtened when we consider that GEJ's government, like others before, failed to repair refineries.  I know your position on this.

Also, how is it possible that a government that is unable to effect positive change with oil revenues in excess of $60 billion is going to effect change with $7 billion?

GEJ has experience to back him up, the refineries were patched up last year, only to go "bad" againt almost immediately. Call it sabotage.
As for GEJ not performing miracles in his short time in office, thats all about people waiting in cracks, crevices and corners to ambush him, fit crimes and hang him. It is for that reason that there are tanks in Lagos.
Give the man a chance to settle down and change the country.

As for what the lawmakers are earning (and their uselessness), I do not see how that could be hung on GEJ, except one is prejudiced. The lawmakers have had fat pays since Obasanjo's time. It is also on record that GEJ is the only President that has not only launched attacks on the NASS payscales, but has repeatedly cut their funds in each budget he has signed.

Katsumoto:
Hahahaha  

Everything relies on petrol including oil production. With no electricity, banks will spend more on petrol for generators. Banking officers will market services using cars - that rely on petrol. How will agricultural produce get to the market and consumers? You guessed it, they will be transported in lorries and vans which run on , Petrol. Telecoms companies will be hit hard as people will spend less on recharge cards and these telecoms companies will spend more on generators that maintain their base stations around the country. I could go on and on but I am sure you get the point. Everything relies on petrol and energy including energy itself.

Do you know what happens when a farmer produces more goods than he can eat or sell there is wastage which leads to the farmer producing less and land being less effective as a factor of production. No doubt price of food items will increase not just because of the increased cost of production but also because the farmer is producing less.

I don't know of any banks whose generators run on petrol; they all run on diesel. The lorries that transport agricultural goods also run on diesel. Telecoms companies run their generators on diesel too, as do all other sections of industry. The subsidy was only removed on petrol, there was none on diesel, so it really only affects the consumer (car owner), rather than the producer.
Very few things outside cars and motorbikes run on petrol.

The above said, we should see a mutiplication of our GDP when the subsidy savings are channelled into areas like agriculture, education and maternal welfare. These are all areas of direct impact on economic growth, especially agriculture which is by far Nigeria's greatest source of employment. Agriculture is going to be turned from a thing of ridicule into the place to be (again, go plant cassava, there be millions there as from 2012). Other crops to consider are rice and wheat (if in highland areas).

Aigbofa:
Let us assume for a second that what you wrote above is true. Are Nigerians supposed to read GEJ's mind? Because all he did was wake up one morning, remove fuel subsidy and send police after protesters! So much for a thinking person.

My guy, the subsidy removal is a very bitter pill to swallow, there is no doubt about it. There is also no doubt though, that it is necessary, the timing is what most of us argue about; however, there are reports that the President has on his desk that the rest of us are not privy to. I wouldn't be surprised if the timing was related to security.

Aigbofa:
The protesters in Lagos are nowhere near any oil wells, why Lagos? And when did a peaceful protest in a democracy equal to "challenges to constituted authority"?

Most times, coup leades are nowhere near the brigades that carry out the action. Proximity to oil wells is no excuse.
There are tanks in Lagos, but none in Ibadan, Ilorin, Kaduna, kano and other places where protests were intense; thats because, something was brewing in Lagos.

Katsumoto:
Beaf,

Lets do a simple exercise.

1. GDP
If a 10% rise in the cost of petrol equals a 3% contraction in an economy; it is safe to assume that a 120% rise in the cost of petrol in Nigeria will equal to a 48% (hope my maths is correct) contraction in the Nigerian economy. What policies will be implemented correctly to prevent or tackle this contraction in the Nigerian economy given that it is speculated that there is approximately 45% unemployment?

2. Inflation
Most people will save less as the cost of living increases. This excess liquidity will increase inflation in an economy with inflation in double digits. How will the government tackle increased inflation? Surely, if inflation is not tackled effectively, it is only a matter of time before there is another price increase not only in petrol but other goods and services.

Is there any basis for your figures? To the best of my knowledge, the main drivers of our GDP are oil, subsistence agriculture and banking (in that order). None of these things rely on petrol, if anything, they are reliant on diesel (produce trucks and generators).

The main driver of employment is also subsistence agriculture (again diesel reliant). It is interesting to note that this is the main area of govts interest, money saved from the removal of the subsidy will be pumped into agriculture to make it an even bigger employer, with the twin effects of limiting urban influx and driving up the GDP.
As part of the revolution, agriculture is being viewd through a wholly entrepreneural perspective by this govt (hint, go grow cassava, cos there are millions to be made).

I see the subsidy removal as a necessary correction to an ill economic system, it will lead to a very sharp GDP increase as previously dormant areas of our economy begin resurrecting and booming, rather than the reduction you think it will.

Katsumoto:
I agree with you that NNPC is one of the most corrupt government parastatals but I struggle with how you arrived at 90%.
I equally agree that a government most make hard choices but this government took the easy way out. If this government is serious about taking hard choices, then it should have arrested quite a number of government officials, both present and past, if it agrees that the petroleum sector is corrupt. What is the point in agreeing that there is corruption when it is not taking any noticeable steps in arresting such a situation. Surely where there is a crime, there are criminals perpetrating it.

I disagree with you on the point that protests at Ojota are/were instigated by corrupt individuals associated with the petroleum industry. Is it too far-fetched a notion that people came out to protest because of the hardship that they are going to experience with the subsidy removal? Are you suggesting that individuals such as Femi Falana, Tunde Bakare, Olisa Agbakoba all work for 'the oil cabal'? 

The only steps that are visible to most are insensitivity on the part of government because no framework is being implemented to address the main issues bedeviling the Nigerian nation. Like they say, 'talk is cheap'.

Oil accounts for 95% of govts disposable finances. Corruption is due to the availability of such huge, apparently free funds in Abuja.

There are many ways to fight corruption. There is the obvious, but ill thought out path of simply throwing everyone in jail; that path got Murtala Muhammed killed and saw Idiagbon overthrown and locked up; and corruption has only grown worse. Reason? That approach is fatally flawed, you throw every Jack in jail, but the oxygen of corruption still remains. Murtala and Idiagbon were soldiers in a civilian environment, fishes out of water, so much really could not be expected.

A thinking person like GEJ has a different approach. Cut off the oxygen, restructure the system, dry up that source of funds, put it in private hands and you have cut off more than 90% of the corruption in govt. Only after the new structure is fully in place do you begin to pick up the purveyors of corruption. It is an intellectually sound and watertight approach.

Katsumoto:
Lastly, how can people protesting in Ojota shut down wells in the Niger Delta? If the Nigerian government is to have a zero tolerance towards attacks on oil production, all MEND officers and soldiers would be in jail instead of issuing threats laced with ethnic invectives.

Shutting down the oil wells was an ingredient in the wild cocktail that was being served to destabilise the country. Ojota was another ingredient, as was the spiralling lawlessness and open challenges, campaign of dangerous lies and threats. We all know what was going on.
Overt and unconstitutional challenges to institituted authority are bound to draw an overt response; therefore, tanks.

Katsumoto:
Am I missing something? Removing subsidy is not equal to fighting corruption. Arresting corrupt individuals and dismantling their operations is equal to fighting corruption. As for your comments about true federalism, business opportunities, etc that is all lip service. For instance, Beaf, can you tell me what percentage of GDP will be shaved off the Nigerian GDP? How will the Nigerian government tackle the contraction that will hit the Nigerian economy with savings and disposable income hit hard by the subsidy removal? What will be the impact on essential industries (food, transportation, housing) and non-essential industries (telecoms, entertainment, etc)?

Improving the business climate can only come from having good roads, constant electricity, cheap power, etc. Those requirements are still missing and in case, in economics, a rule of thumb is that a 10% rise in crude oil prices shaves of 3% of GDP. Your guess is as good as mine as to what the impact will be on the Nigerian economy with regards to that rule of thumb.

The money saved is going to be shovelled into the creation of the things you listed above, as well as invested in the citizen as a resource. Your argument against the removal is circular, because on the one hand you demand amenities and on the other, you ask that the money to provide amenities be squandered on consumption. You can't eat your cake and have it.
Rather than engage in protests that seem targetted at fitting crimes on the innocent; every one of us should actively police the programmes govt has set up, to make sure they are transparent and that they are delivering the required dividends.

Let us all be part of positive change.

There is no alternative to PDP. The rest are mushroom parties, and mushrooms never win.

Katsumoto:
It is the duty of the government to provide an enabling environment. There can be no innovation and increase in productivity in a society where there is no electricity, non-existent infrastructure, and where corruption stinks to the high heavens. GEJ, like the others before, has failed to address the pertinent issues. The blame for lack of innovation or excellent business practices falls on the current president and his predecessors. The blame on the Nigerian people is for electing individuals who are clearly incompetent and corrupt.

I agree with 100% resource control which can be achieved through true federalism. The question remains, when will the president motion towards that which is necessary.

Your post is quite self contradictory. It is strange for anybody to come out swinging against corruption and the lack of opportunities (enabling environment), yet have as their target, the very first President to actually begin streamlining the Nigerian structure for true federalism, business opportunities and the stifling of corruption (as amply demonstrated with the subsidy removal).

Anyone observing such a strange battle, as waged by the self-proclaimed representatives of the people (who just happen to be failed politicians), would quickly conclude that something very unhealthy was brewing and advise that it be sharply nipped in the bud. Thats why the tanks are out in Lagos.

Katsumoto:
The people were exercising their rights to protest. Even if calls were made for his impeachment at those rallies, I don't see how tanks on the streets of Lagos can prevent the impeachment or assassination of a president who is in Abuja. If GEJ was fearful for his life, then tanks should be on every street corner in Abuja rather than in Lagos for the intimidation and harassment of those exercising their rights.

Soldiers on the streets when there is no carnage/riot is a clear indication of confusion and lack of guile/tact on the part of the Government. This state of insensitivity if further exacerbated by the murder of unarmed civilian protesters. So what will the government do if there is carnage on the streets? Call on Obama and Cameron to help cage their own citizens?

GEJ is not fearful of his life. He is quelling rebelion. You do not make threats to shut down oil wells and destroy the nation, simply because fuel prices have gone up.
It is obvious that motives were far more sinister and Lagos has now got what it deserved. Those who wish to levy war by shutting down the oil wells in far away lands, now have tanks in their immediate localities to practise on. I guess it saves the transport fare.

Hard actions are needed to pull Nigeria out of a self-destructive spiral of chaos, impunity and entropy. The most obvious place to begin that correction is in the petroleum sector. GEJ is forcing all govt talons off the petroleum industry, and in that way, is uprooting the source of 90% of the corruption that bedevils Nigeria today.
The deregulation is just one of a raft of deep structural changes GEJ is making to Nigeria. It requires hard headedness, resolve and heart to complete the tough agenda of transformation GEJ has set himself; it is expected that the vultures and forces of yesterday will fight back ferociously (as witnessed in the pretext at Ojota). In turn, they will be made to understand that Nigeria will steamroll over them. A Juggernaut has been set in motion and no amount of sophistry will deflect or halt its motion.

Nigeria MUST develop.

TRUTHTELA:
@Beaf, you're a full time pauper and a dunce, your cabals, and the movers & sakers are in bed sleeping and you're awake trying to console your failed life by supporting a FAILURE like you & you benefit nothing from. If you have a life, you'll not be awake by this time of the day. SUCKER!!

Insults and curses do not equate to intelligence, in fact they are an admission that your intellect is weak, dried up and tired.

[quote author=okada_man link=topic=847649.msg9981377#msg9981377 date=1326764041]Isn't it funny that in a so called democracy, where the constitution expressly made provisions for the removal of a president, these buffoons are trying to criminalize calls for his removal ?

It does not matter if the call was made on the street, in the house of assembly or screamed by a muezzin. The peoples right to withdraw their mandate should be inviolable.

Treason is a language you use for enemies of the state, spies and other saboteurs, not for citizens in a peaceful procession across the streets of your country.

These protests were as peaceful as they come. The only violence we saw was perpetrated by The Nigerian Police shooting and maiming innocent citizens.

BTW, a mob removed Mubarak. Not Ideal, but every Mob has a tolerance treshhold.

Hopefully, Ebelemi will not be pushed to the point of no return by the goons surrounding him.[/quote]Presumably, the constitution allows for protesters to shut down oil wells?
IMHO, if people like Bakare had been shot, it wouldn't have been a step too far.

^
Please don't call yourselves Nigerians, to many, you are viewed as traitors and dissidents.

Aigbofa:
If GEJ was not too stup.id to remove fuel subsidy without any consultation with anybody, there wouldn't be any protest. And may God punish you for that "hard wired" statement.

He has done it and he has put tanks out to enforce it. What are you gonna do?

It is ridiculous and absolutely shameless for those outside the oil producing areas to protest. We should all be asking why our states and LG's generate fuckall or even less. Our 100% dependence on oil seems to suggest that the average Nigerians believes their IQ is too low to be productive, innovative and proactive; anyone observing us would think we a too stup!d to develop.

Nchara:
Let's guess: you could not remove him by election and you want to do so by killing him.

That is what Aigbofa is openly advocating here, that is what his leaders have been advocating to the area boys at Ojota and that is why there are tanks in Lagos.
GEJ replied by sending them targets to practice against; I would dearly love to see the brave advocates for sniper actions, practice their skills against the army.

[size=14pt]Rewind. . .
El Rufai was #Occupied![/size]


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Aigbofa:
Any president who will turn the army loose on defenceless citizens deserves to be shot by a sniper, forget impeachment.

That is why there are tanks on your streets for you to test your sniping skills against. You people talk too much.

@topic
IMHO, GEJ needs to create channels through which political relevance can be felt in the SW, in order to deflect their politicians from seeking relevance through turbulence. Political isolation always breeds a sense of victimisation. GEJ needs to find novel ways to luv'n hug the SW.

Imagine people going so far as to threaten to shut down the oil wells, an act which would have precipitated war without doubt?
Anyone preaching regime change in such an atmosphere to lawless crowds deserves to be tried for treason; perhaps, even summarily shot, in response to their covert declaration of war. National security is supreme over individual freedoms.

What we saw over the past week was people taken over by animal instincts, and that such things must be controlled with the right doses of stiff treatment. We live in a society that is used to tyranny and where sections have taken the gentlemanly attitude as something they can trample at will. They got what they deserved with soldiers on the streets and NLC told to sit down, face the wall and shut up.

The rise in the pump price is painful, but it is not an excuse to take to lawless and treasonable actions to assuage your pain.
For those mentioning boko haram, you aught to be deeply ashamed of yourselves. In all the time boko haram has murdered people, how many of you cared to demonstrate? The lives of fellow Nigerians mean nothing to us as long as our bellies are full.
Boko haram has challenged the govt and that has resulted in the army overrunning the NE; if you challenge the govt like boko haram, what do you expect? Not the same army?

The people got exactly what they deserved.
We need to learn civilised ways of communicating; it is a skill the average Nigerian lacks; as an example, on the streets, the rich freely rain slaps on the poor for the tiniest slight. Even here on NL, when people cannot counter your arguments, they resort to insults and curses; that is exactly what was projected in the protests, with threats of assassination, insults, lies and ethnic jibes flowing relentlessly. Even the foreign press was filled with alarming stories of impending breakup. Why do we project ourselves in such dysmal light?
Nigerians need to learn civilised ways.

Omo Retired!!!
What a failure! Why would you go so low as to attack ethnic groups, because the putsch you ran off to the UK to organise collapsed woefully? Its sour grapes.
The prejudiced attitude you are displaying on the thread as an #Occupy organiser is ample evidence of why the protests failed.

Wisened heads took one look at the protest organisers, how they fled Nigeria before the protests, how they talked treasonably, how they lied freely and most alarmingly, how dark currents of ethnic bigotry underpinned their every word.

Let the bigotry all hang out now, cos there is no point for pretense anymore. You can also drop the fake Niger Deltan badge you've been flashing, cos nobody is deceived.

okito:
My heart goes out to those involved in this blow out. Good we have in house people who have some information about the incidence and have helped to educate the ignorant ones. One hopes that in the coming days, we can have someone with the details give us an insight into what led to the blow out so that other people in the oil and gas industry can learn from it. People should accord offshore workers due respect as everything about the job is highly risky including chopper flights to and fro location, not to talk of the operational risks either on the rig or production platforms. However good the money may seem, it is nothing compared to the associated risk. I had my heart in my mouth the last time I flew from the rig to NAF base because the chopper developed a mechanical fault mid way into the flight however God saved us from a crash. This is what all others in the industry endure to maintain the country's oil producing status. May God continue to protect us all.

God Bless all of you and keep you safe. We can only hope and pray that there were no casualties in the current accident.
It is a tough job you do and it should be respected.

[size=14pt]El Rufai was #Occupied![/size]


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blacksta:
it is not hate - It is frustration whilst the elite enjoys the commonwealth . It is costing me roughly 100k monthly to survive in Nigeria and it is barest lifestyle . I have to provide everything . Now my bill goes up to 150k with income remaining stagant. If things carry on like this - One day Nigerians will commit mass suicide.

My sympathies, every change brings some amount of difficulty. It should change for the better within the next few months, you have made me see a human side.
I thought you were living in the UK?

Nice speech from Fashola, even though it is highly unrealistic. The soldiers are likely to be around for a week or two.

^
You sound really despondent. Its never good to hate without reason, like you people hate GEJ; most times you get burned.

blacksta:
Mr Beaf

I am guessing one thing Nigerians have learnt - dont trust any labour group . Save Nigerian Group remains the only credible group in Nigerian.

Seriously it was chance to finally deal with corruption in Nigeria

Gej had the chance and backing of the people but he lost it , only because he wanted please the owners of Nigerian.

Looking at the days of IBB and Abacha after any protest. I am not sure GEJ will be able to achieve anything else it is case of siddon and look until 2015

Subsidy still remains - smuggling continiues, nnpc corruption continues - The theives will make up their margins else where.

It was never a chance to deal with corruption, otherwise we would have all been out there. It was a protest against N141 per litre fuel that was hijacked by all sorts of sinister groups and individuals. In the end, people began making it up as they went along, because they realised that they had grossly underestimated GEJ (many had thought that he would simply break down in tears and run to mummy).

The thing was simply a waste of everybodies time, that is aside from nearly dragging Nigeria over the precipice. All they have done is slow the wheels of progress.

GEJ has already shown that he is willing to throw himself at Nigeria's difficult problems. He has come out of the protests much stronger than he was when they started; his control of the country is now total, in addition to that, he has soldiers, SSS and all sorts of security operatives crawling all over the opposition stronghold. Shiit will be dug out. I imagine that the soldiers will be there for a week or two, dishing out the odd kick and slap to straighten minds.

I name and shame Tunde Bakare, the lying, false prophet and jackal.

It should be fairly easy to dig up dirt on most NLC leaders. And when I say dirt, I mean real smelly shiity stuff.
NLC is the backbone of corruption in Nigeria, its just like the police.

Aside from dirt, there's also possible treason, because attempting to shut down oil wells is a totally different ball game from simply staying off work. That is deliberately sabotaging the nations economy and security.

Labour has called of its strike, so Ojota peeps can now go home.

engineerd:
I am saying shoot 4000 Lagosians and pay for the consequences, we live in a global village now,

There will be no such shootings, but if there were, the people would only die for nothing. How many were killed in the ND during Yar Adua's time? With all the UN petitions and youtube clips, what happened. The boko haram executions are also on youtube, what has happened about them?

LeoMax:
I hate this useless boys that dont even know how to hack !!

Sahara Reporters is full of nonsense. That is not the Nigerian Army Domain, check it again.

They buy domain name and put an index page with their silly graphics and pass rumors that Nigeria army website was hacked.

When was that fake domain registered, is it not a forth-night ago ?

You are right, the Nigerian Army website is untouched: http://www.nigerianarmyms.org/
What they attacked was The Nigerian Army Education Corps website.

^
It is in your own interest to consider if the ND really needs Nigeria as much as Nigeria needs the ND. I don't want to go into any long talk, we no too sabi talk.

Remii:
beaf, you don't need to destroy the union because GEJ is in power today, you may need them in future, moajority of NUPENG are Niger Delta citizens. There was a protest before GEJ was made Acting President by the same people you are castigating today. Remember the North has used the similar agitation to entrench Tambowa as leader of HoR, which now gives the North No 2 and 3 and 4 positions in the country. let us see beyond ethnic and tribal sentiments.
Lagos crowd was not 100% Yoruba oo and not all SS & SE are in favor of subsidy removal as being proposed by the govt.

Dude, I made that statement because of actions on the ground as we speak. There is a massive education process on national structure kicking off in the ND as we speak. It isn't me destroying the union, but those who are acting senselessly.
I don't know where you got the idea of SE/SS peoples feelings, but I will tell you that it is one of spiralling outrage. There is always a time to pull back, because of the madness going on today, I can tell you that the ND would have left this week if GEJ was not President.

^
Dreams.

Demdem:
Protest has been going on in Ojota, there were no reports of violence there. Infact u guys labelled them as carnival lovers. This shows that the govt simply want to intimidate the protesters from doing what is constitutionally ok. better still he hould deplored them to where violence was recorded.

Nice! Is that also why the armies website was hacked today? You guys might be in for a serious lockdown, its interesting to witness the levels of foolishness that Nigerians are displaying both in Lagos and elsewhere. Things like this always end bitterly.

You are in PH, so you should be able to verify that the ND is ready to leave at the drop of a pin; we would have gone already over this crisis, if not that GEJ is the President.

As long as they keep the peace, its fine. But it is a waste of time to hang around Ojota, it is better to harness that energy into a protest about tangible things, like the fundamental structure of Nigeria.
As an example of the way to go,right now, there is a massive indepth education and orientation effort in the Niger Delta about the federal structure, people aren't hanging around aimlessly like at Ojota.

ilugunboy:
.

Beaf. . . . can you please stay off this forum, you are becoming too predictable and monotonous. To you its either we are for you or against you. To you, its either black or white. quit this way of thinking and rationalize outside the box for once.

Find a way to hang yourself. If you attack the army, you have declared war. Period.

All over the Niger Delta, people are mobilising very strongly. I believe we will soon come up with a strong set of demands or begin the process of formally withdrawing from the union.