₦airaland Forum

African professionals living outside Africa are less likely to change Africa. Its human nature, we are creatures of comfort, and unless something drastic happens, we change nothing. So the present economic slump in western countries my be a blessing in disguise. At the very least, many Nigerian pros I know are thinking long term wealth, and willing to risk some inconvenience by investing back home.

For those that say mentality is the problem, I assure you that mentality is a vague measure at best. Perception of the chinese has changed from lazy, cunning coolie to smart industrious in the span of a generation. We need ONE good leader to put the correct system in place. Everything else will fall in line.

Inked_Nerd:

You can still achieve those things without having to get married. It seems like what you're describing here is more of a communal contract. You mention a previous generation bringing me into existence so are you trying to tell me that without marriage I wouldn't exist? Its almost as though you think that just because an individual or two individuals are not necessarily tied [I'm using this word loosely by the way] to another that they cannot produce a child. You can still have children and contribute to the needs of the community without having to marry.

You can have kids without getting married. Even have a single parent, or two moms, or two dads. The fact there there is no surviving society with such family models suggest the married family model is the most reasonable for any society that wants to survive.

Inked_Nerd:
@OP: I just don't really have a desire to get married. As far as I'm concerned the only benefits I see are legal benefits--health benefits, tax purposes, government benefits, estate planning benefits, etc. When I was younger, I used to think about marriage but eventually at some point I just disregarded the whole thing. As a little kid, up, I used to think that it was a must but with time I began to realize that the only reason I thought it was a must was because I'd been conditioned to believe that that's what you had to do.

How is it selfish? Is it a must for someone to get married?

To be honest, this is a western way of thinking. To the African or Asian mind, this is a self-centered way of looking at things. The community's needs are bigger than your needs, and you are supposed to play your part by having a stable family that produces a responsible next generation. After all, a previous generation brought you into being and spent energy nuturing you. So you have to give back, otherwise you are being selfish.

I'm not saying its right, or wrong, but that's the general idea for non-western societies.

exng:
I was just wondering what girls expect from men. lots of times i bump into a girl, same ritual, -  go to the movies a drink afterwards, maybe club etc. i always ask myself what do they expect from the guy .
it is fun though using some chat lines, but some girls would want to sleep with you right from the word go and wouldnt say it, mayb it is because of the part of the world i reside but they always seem to go for one thing the manliness,  i am not refering to dudu babes but oyibo baby.

sometimes you walk past them, they give you the smile and only God knows what they r thinkin at that mo. girls please help me out here cos your fellow dudu bros needs salvation

bro, you don't need salvation. There is a time for everything. Enjoy it, get it out of your system, then find a "soul mate" as opposed to an easy lay. Btw. dudu babes and oyibo babes are thinking the same thing. One group is just bolder.

morpheus24:
The Asian societies may be fooled into percieving they have achieved a slow down of this system but only in as far as it serves the short term objective.  The long run is where they will eventually hit a snag they are unprepared for in my opinion. The exponential effect of allowing even a small penetration of capitalist tendency and then assuming you are able to control its eventualities is not very bright thinking if you ask me. It either works or it doesn't work for you. This supports my previous statement on what each society defines as a measurement for the "quality of life"' it deems fit for its progeny.

There is really little difference between capitalism in Asia and the West. A quick reading of recent WTO disputes shows that EVERYBODY finds ways to prop up their countries industries, such that they are part state-sponsored, part free-enterprise. The Asians are just not as slick at doing this. This should be instructive for our leaders (hopefully), who accept world bank recommendations hook, line and sinker, eg IBB and SAP.

A fine discussion. Let me add my 2 cents

morpheus24:
My definition of capitalism encompasses the freedom and ability for the individual to own, manipulate and control natures given means of production to be held and operated in private hands for initial individual benefit which in turn creates an inevitable ripple effect of providing for and benefitting the public as a whole.

If this is your definition of capitalism, then capitalism is as old as the wheel, and will always be with us. I think the key is in your "inevitable ripple effect". Individual benefit is not guaranteed to have a beneficial ripple effect. On the contrary, it could (and has) had negative effects on a society as a whole. The question is, at what point does the state step in and curtail the negative effects of an individual's exercise of capitalism. This is what defines modern day capitalism: the ability to carry out business practices that could constitute future harm, with little interference by the state.

This is why you are able to pick apart Negro_Ntns's "solutions". They are solutions to an ill-defined problem to start with. The issue isn't really capitalism per se, but the values of a society. That is, what barometer do we use to measure prosperity. If unemployment jumps by 5%, and GDP jumps by 6%, is that prosperity? I think this is the crux of the issue,  imo

SEFAGO:
Funniest video, I have seen. However, there is some little truth in it. Except for the Yoruba, who were the most civilised of all africans, most africans did not build anything. Stop claiming Egypt. We should be interested in what is happening in subsaharan africa.

Friend, what are you smoking. Surely you have heard of Timbuktu and Songhai. You know there is a reason Zimbabwe means "House of Stone" right? Please put down the crack pipe.

shotster50:
@birdman
Thats why you have the OAU. United States of Africa has means something more

The OAU won't do for what I propose. We can have a loose coalition, but it at the very least needs to be able to back its resolutions with force, military and economic wise. OAU as it is structured today can't do a lick about France in Ivory Coast. ECOWAS is a little stronger, since it does have ECOMOG. Its still not strong enough though, as ECOMOG is primarily a monitor. A "USA" could convince its francophone members to give France some trouble if it doesnt stop meddling in Ivory Coast. And it would have enough military power to prevent overt retaliation by France against the said francophone countries.

Ileke-IdI:
why did you change it to "bla bla bla"?

I dont want to quote  him. Give him a chance to modify it. Unlikely, I know,

lagbaja20:
bla bla bla ,

^Its not an I[b]g[/b]bo thing. Diversity is a prized indicator of a school's openness.

violent:
And isn't the EU sinking under its own weight? how long do you think countries will continue bailing out their poor broke friends for? till forever? have you read the history of the soviet union at all?

,  . give it another 20 years down the line, and you'd have Somalian groups laying claims to oil wells within Nigerian boarders. . .when we still can't figure how to solve Boko Haram issues or appease the MEND gods!

Germany isnt leaving in spite of this is it? The benefits of the EU far outweigh the temporary problems.

shotster50: The idea for a ''United States of Africa'' is a lazy, half baked  attempt at solving the myriad of problems facing Africa.

If you look at it as an alignment of economic interests, it doesn't have to be.

Ileke-IdI:
OFFTOPIC: I know a LOT of Nigerian grads and adults who have taken "Nigeria" out of their resummes/ Job applications I'm thinking about doing the same thing, no offense to Nigeria, but I deserve a bright future

Gaddemn! We don suffer  

udezue:
We dont need it. Lets just go back to our previous boundaries and form nations with ethnic groups that we can live with then after that we can have United States of Africa or better a European Union type of arrangement. Africa is way too big to run as a country.

If Europeans realize they need an EU, why would we think we can do without it? We can get away without it today. Could we do without it in another 50 years? I doubt it. There are good reasons why Germany is willing to remain joined to laggard countries like Greece.

Ileke-IdI:
LOL We had this discussion in my organization. A lot of Non-Africans showed up.
Come and see people expecting "Yes, United States of Africa" from us Africans. They were shocked. ALL of us said "NO".
USAfrica might sound nice to those who still sees Africa as a "country" and a safe thought to those Blacks who wants black power and a sense of identity. But sadly, Africa cannot and should not be united.

Each country has to lose it's identity to conform to one. We are so culturally different, that that would be impossible.

It depends on how you want to define a United States of Africa I guess. No one objects to the OAU for example. We could give it economic teeth, an ECOWAS++ if you will. Like you said, it would still take several generations though. I've met well eduacted Africans that will have nothing to do with any other African country, and definitely not Nigeria  

violent:
i would like to believe that individuals recommending for a United States of Africa aren't Nigerians and are probably from Republic of Somalia or whatever country looking to gain a massive boost from this ridiculously proposed union!. . . if not, why else would anyone recommend that a country doing well economically should mix its business with war driven poor countries, just to become bigger?. . . .that's got to qualify for the stupidest statement ever!

Countries like Ethopia, Niger, Central African Republic, Guniea Bissau, Somalia, Zimbabwe etc are too poor to offer anything economically and also in terms of military strength, so in the end, we stand to gain nothing besides numbers. . .who cares about numbers really?

CAR's natural resources dwarf ours both in quantity and value. Joining them would add to us, not take away. Secondly, the ultimate source of wealth is ALWAYS land. Everything else is based on land. If it wasn't so, US wouldnt bother buying Alaska, Russia would abandon Siberia, and China let Tibet rot on its own. They wont, because its more than just economy. Its also about strategic value.

problems in Nigeria has absolutely nothing to do with external drivers, so why should we find a need to become bigger?

Agreed. But solving our internal problems is only one part of the equation. In a future multi-polar word, Africa needs an some kind of organization to rally behind.

Ileke-IdI:
Why do you think it's a stable country?

They are stable because they understand their history. For example, China is not rushing headlong into democracy. Deep cultural divisions still exist, and their ethnic infighting make Nigerians look like saints. Their system of government accounts for their history.

Kobojunkie, I see you modified your original post too to include insults. Are you insulting me because you are unable to make your case, or is this a handicap you have to live with? As soon as you grow up, maybe we'll have a mature discussion. Have fun arguing with yourself lol.

If you still do not get it, may I suggest you catch up on the History of the country you now know as China?

I knew Taiwan was China's last civil war, off the top of my head. You obviously didnt, or were so enamored with arguing baselessly (as you usually do) that you forgot. Take your own advice. Crack open a history book sometime.

Kobojunkie:
It is flawed because in order to get a unified China, the one you talk of today, millions of people had to be butchered/massacred/tortured/maimed . . .  leaving the remaining with no other choice but to submit to the whims of those who wanted one china.

Whats the argument here? This actually supports my point. If China, with all that bloodletting could unite, why not we, with far less animosity.

The civil wars you refer to are probably those that came 1000's of years after the initial bloodbath that left most of the population debilitated and paralyzed by fear, after unification of China.

Ever heard of Taiwan? Yeah, that was the last civil war, only half a century old.

Fear is the prison of the ignorant.

700 virgins? how can I convert? Someone pls show me the way!

Kobojunkie:
WHAT THE HECK? You seriously using the Chinese for an Example??    That is such a brain-dead example to use. This one goes beyond flawed logic . . gob!

The example is not flawed at all.The historical internal dissension between Chinese makes our squabbles look like child's play. We have one civil war, they have dozens. Their ethinicities are more diverse that what we have. Yet they are one stable country today.

Ochi_Agha:
I support this, but not just yet. First we need to go back our pre-colonial states. Once that is done, then we can finally unite. We have to start from scratch.

If we start from scratch, we are done. The only reason UK can't push Nigeria around like France is doing to Ivory Coast is mass. Population and land-wise. Its also why China has been able to assert itself. The real problem is not pre-colonial states, its un-accountable politicians.

I almost wanted to reply with a list of african historical monuments, but I realize this is a troll thread. Carry on.

OLAADEGBU:
bal bla bla,

Self deceit is indeed an interesting phenomenon. Carry on

I cant believe this. He was easily the most qualified candidate and had the best shot of winning. Wow

cap28:
Japan was rewarded with a place at the table of the G8 nations because the US wanted to create pro western countries in south east asia, these countries acted as buffer zones and helped to prevent the spread of communism within that region, as a reward for staying loyal to the US they are allowed to develop economically.

I think Ghana may have been picked in W.Africa to serve as a counter weight to Nigeria, should we prove unmanageable. Even with foreign agents, the dynamics of Nigerian politics is too volatile to control reliably, too many factors and factions. Seen in this light, Obama's visit to Ghana wasn't just harmless, diplomatic fun. I honestly can't blame them. You have to do whats best for YOUR own country.

ola olabiy:
You have said all this without telling us where to look, really.

Are you saying both sides are right?
Are you saying it is normal for our leaders to kowtow without asking questions?

You have not proferred any way out.

Maybe you should make his post better, put on your thinking cap, and COME UP WITH YOUR OWN solutions. We will all be the better for it. cap28, you hit the nail square on the head, problem and solution-wise

if you believe noah's ark or jonah in the belly of a whale, there is nothing else you wouldnt believe.

the status thing is silly. There are poor people with a good head on their shoulders. And there mean-spirited well to do people. BUT: I would still consider "status" in marrying. You may be open-minded about the whole thing, but your family and in-laws may not be so liberal. You can expect you and your wife to live in constant family quarrels.

ola olabiy:
I am sorry but Usernames Blazay and Strangerf(and all forms of the name) belong to the same person.

I have my reasons sha. Just follow their (his) pattern of posts.

Been studying the pattern for a while now.

very likely. ol boy craze ppl full NL