₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
Although the post you referenced was a response to blueAgent (doesn't apply to you:as I see that he differs from the main JW doctrine), you have raised an issue which your doctrinal position has locked you in.

From your response:
1. God's spirit is alive (supernatural being)
2. Angel's spirits are alive (supernatural beings)
3. Demon's spirits are alive (supernatural beings)
BUT
4. Human spirit is NOT alive: it is simply a life force!

Do you think the last conclusion (4) represent your view?

You are really confused.

Human spirit can mean the human mind or Life force (breathe).

shadeyinka:
I do not think that the capitalized word in Ezekiel connote DEATH. For satan is not made up of Carbon atoms hence cannot become Ashes. The scripture paint the picture of permanent humiliation and demotion of satan. Devour means destroy not annihilation.





I had assumed you were a Jehovah's Witness and I saw that some of your answers were inconsistent with JW's doctrine hence my questions to you. Your answer has now confirmed that you are not a JW.

The main difference in our ideologies is that
1. You seem to believe in annihilation of erring beings at Judgement: I do not.
For me, all spirits apart from God has a beginning but no end.
2. I don't know if you believe that consciousness exist at physical death.

Other than this, I'll give you a summary of my understanding of the difference between a spirit, soul and body

KJV Dictionary Definition:
devour
devour
DEVOUR, v.t. L., to eat.
1. To eat up; to eat with greediness; to eat
ravenously, as a beast of prey, or as a
hungry man.
We will say, some evil beast hath
devoured him. Genesis 37.
In the morning, he shall devour the
prey. Genesis 49.
2. To destroy; to consume with rapidity and
violence.
I will send a fire into the house of
Hazael, which shall devour the palaces
of Ben-Hadad. Amos 1.
Famine and pestilence shall devour
him. Ezekiel 7.
3. To destroy; to annihilate; to consume.
He seemed in swiftness to devour the
way.
4. To waste; to consume; to spend in
dissipation and riot.
As soon as this thy son had come, who
hath devoured thy living with harlots.
Luke 15.
5. To consume wealth and substance by
fraud, oppression, or illegal exactions.
Ye devour widows houses. Matthew
23.
6. To destroy spiritually; to ruin the soul.
Your adversary, the devil, as a roaring
lion, walketh about, seeking whom he
may devour. 1 Peter 5.
7. To slay.
The sword shall devour the young
lions. Nahum 2.
8. To enjoy with avidity.
Longing they look, and gaping at the
sight, devour her oer and oer with vast
delight.
devoured
DEVOURED, pp. Eaten; swallowed with
greediness; consumed; destroyed; wasted; slain.
devourer
DEVOURER, n. One who devours; he or that
which eats, consumes or destroys; he that preys
on.
devouring
DEVOURING, ppr. Eating greedily; consuming;
wasting; destroying; annihilating.
devouringly
DEVOURINGLY, adv. In a devouring manner.

shadeyinka:
I do not think that the capitalized word in Ezekiel connote DEATH. For satan is not made up of Carbon atoms hence cannot become Ashes. The scripture paint the picture of permanent humiliation and demotion of satan. Devour means destroy not annihilation.





I had assumed you were a Jehovah's Witness and I saw that some of your answers were inconsistent with JW's doctrine hence my questions to you. Your answer has now confirmed that you are not a JW.

The main difference in our ideologies is that
1. You seem to believe in annihilation of erring beings at Judgement: I do not.
For me, all spirits apart from God has a beginning but no end.
2. I don't know if you believe that consciousness exist at physical death.

Other than this, I'll give you a summary of my understanding of the difference between a spirit, soul and body

You are confusing and contradicting yourself.

"Devour means destroy not annihilation."
To Destroy means to annihilate.

(verb) in the sense of destroy
to engulf and destroy
See examples for synonyms
Definition
Synonyms
destroy
spend
waste
consume
wipe out
ravage
annihilate

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/devour


The problem is that you are trying to fit God's word to suit your preconceived ideas which is wrong.
rather you should change your idea to suit God's word.

The Bible is clear ONLY God has immortality that means every other living thing can die except God. that includes Angels the Devil and Demons.

You are sounding like you are God who made Angels and know that they don't have an end?

Can you show me one bible verse that says Angels cannot not die?


Show me were in the Bible it is written that their is consciousness after death?

Mcquine:
Imagine a C.L.O.W.N that has never in his life cross the shores of Nigeria is claiming to know someone greater than his entire generation combine.

Nigeria is really filled with mad people some of which can still operate phones.

SMH

You dey mind the Hungary people?

brownemmanuel43:
If u want to enjoy football as an entertainment, just watch messy. If u check very well most people that hate messy are from EPL supporters. bcs of many things messy dun do them.
See when I was a football fan then, (chelsea) precisely, I hated messy with passion, but bro I just sat down one day, I watched messy video clip for a whole weekend, mehnnn messy is from another world.

Bro I concur.
Same with me I was a Penaldo advocate till I took time to Watch Messi play and I realized that anyone comparing Penaldo to Messi does not know football.

eni4real:
They are wasting their energies on the wrong person!!!

Bartomeu and the board have not been effective for the past 1year.. But you expect a miracle??

Continue living in fools paradise

You don't talk to a 6 Ballon d'or and 6 European Golden shoes winner like that!!!

I concur.
Hungry people commenting and insulting someone that does not know that they exist.

Olam09:
As far as messi still remains the club coach. barca will always loss ni messi is just like a dictator in Barcelona he's a idiot dwarf always interfering in club management affairs and it's obivious i trust Mourinho if to say he be barca coach he don't care whether to sell or bench that idiot dwarf and some idiot will say he's humble and polite than ronaldo hell no that's a lie ronaldo still remains the most humble,kind and respected player in football ge has set much more record than that idiot dwarf despite that he's not get mad with all his achievements and start dictating for juve or any place he move to to say the fact as long as messi remains in barca. Barcelona will always remain a shithole i was telling one idiot the truth early in the morning but all he could say was to swear for me qnd my family just because i told the truth about messi attitude.

Dump post as ever.

shadeyinka:
If spirits are alive, how come Jehovah's witnesses treat human spirit as inanimate (life giving force from God/breath of life)?

Is there a difference between the kind of spirit in angels and the kind of spirit in human beings?

Am not a JW so I cannot speak for them.

Secondly how long will it take you to understand that the word, spirits can meaning three different things in the Bible depending on the context in which it is used?

The word spirits can mean breathe or Gods force this one is inanimate does not have life or thoughts on its own.

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in
wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all
manner of workmanship,
Exodus 35:21 And they came, every one whose heart
stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing,
and they brought the LORD's offering to the work of the
tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and
for the holy garments.


Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of
God is in my nostrils;



The word spirit can be used to refer to living supernatural being that has capacity to think, feel, love .e.g God, Angels.

Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a
flaming fire:
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers
of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness
in high places.

*Spirit can be used to refer to mind, thoughts zeal,
will,countenances,ones disposition.
Examples.
Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always
strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall
be an hundred and twenty years.
Genesis 41:8 And it came to pass in the morning that his
spirit was troubled; and he sent and called for all the
magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and
Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that
could interpret them unto Pharaoh.
Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a
broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Psalms 77:3 I remembered God, and was troubled: I
complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed. Selah.

shadeyinka:
This question I asked because I want you to distinguish between Gods spirit giving life to an angel and the spirit of the angel itself.

If I get the doctrine of JW well. Gods spirit is the life giving force/breath of life that gives life to the body of man. In other words the spirit in man doesn't belong to him as it's just a force that keeps him alive.

Now, angels are by themselves spirits. If they are alive, does it mean they are composed of two spirits (one the life giving force from God and second, their own spirit)?

Angels certainly have a beginning, but the Bible isn't explicit about if they can die. Ezekiel 28:12 refer to the degrading of satan not his death. And even if angels die, the question is, what kind of death
1. Spiritual Death (separation from God's)
2. Second Death.(eternal separate

The nearest scripture that may refer to death of angels is where it was said that they loved not their lives.

They are 2 different things Angels are called spirits because they are supernatural but there life comes from God who gives them life through his Spirit.
The spirit or life force from God is totally different from the Spirit being, they share same name but are both different things.

Angels die both spiritual and physical death( that is they cease to exist)

shadeyinka:
This question I asked because I want you to distinguish between Gods spirit giving life to an angel and the spirit of the angel itself.

If I get the doctrine of JW well. Gods spirit is the life giving force/breath of life that gives life to the body of man. In other words the spirit in man doesn't belong to him as it's just a force that keeps him alive.

Now, angels are by themselves spirits. If they are alive, does it mean they are composed of two spirits (one the life giving force from God and second, their own spirit)?

Angels certainly have a beginning, but the Bible isn't explicit about if they can die. Ezekiel 28:12 refer to the degrading of satan not his death. And even if angels die, the question is, what kind of death
1. Spiritual Death (separation from God's)
2. Second Death.(eternal separate

The nearest scripture that may refer to death of angels is where it was said that they loved not their lives.

You are confusing yourself.

The Word spirits does not mean the same thing.

Angels are spirits but only exist by the power of life from God.

Ezekiel28:12 is explicitly about the end of Satan.

28:18 Thou hast
defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities,
by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a
fire from the midst of thee, it shall DEVOUR thee, and I will
bring thee to ASHES upon the earth in the sight of all them
that behold thee. 28:19 All they that know thee among the
people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror,
and never shalt thou be ANYMORE.



Check the capitalized letters do they have any other meaning less than what they say?

budaatum:
What do you think? Does it mean anything to you?
Tell me what you understand by it.

To be honest, I don't understand anything.

shadeyinka:
Thank you for doing justice to this. Your other friend Piecefullove has avoided giving any answer to this simple answer.

I have two questions:
1. Does the soul connote the idea of "self/personal identity" (I, me, my etc)?
2. Would one be correct to say our soul defines our Will, Emotion and Intellect?
3. Do angels have souls?

Those are the three questions for now. Thank you.

Yes, Our soul is like our inner consciousness or I will say our indentity.
It is the totality of who we are, our perceptions,Will,desires, thoughts,reasoning,

Yes Angels should have Souls because they have free will, they are able to love or hate, obey or disobey God's command just as Satan did.

shadeyinka:
Thank you for the answers
1. Are angels spirits alive or inanimate?

I agree with you that spirits are alive.

2. What is the "being" in an angel?
(As you said, "supernatural being"
I agree that spirits have parts of the body, can move, etc

But, of God's spirit give them life, what actually is God giving life.

For a human being: when God's spirit exits, the body becomes lifeless (dead).
What happens when God's spirit leaves an angel?

You didn't answer this question well.

Thank you

Are you insinuating that Angels cannot die?

When God's spirit leaves an Angel, the Angel dies.

Angels have a beginning so they also have an end.
Only God has immortality , meaning that it is only God that cannot die.


1 Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


We are also told that Angels can die and Satan will die and ceases to exist.

Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

budaatum:
I lied to someone today. I commited a sin. And I'd be commiting another sin if sinful me starts doing God's job telling you if you sin or not.

As is written, "buda, before you start stoning blueAgent, go tend the massive forest in your own fuqing eyes and let blueAgent tend his tiny twigs"!

Is there meaning to this your post?

shadeyinka:
I understand you, so,
Are angels spirits alive or inanimate?

What is the "being" in an angel?
(As you said, "supernatural being"

Spirits are alive.

Spirits have hand,legs,mouth,head.
what sets them apart from humans is that they are invisible to our ordinary eyes and have abilities that are not common to Humans.

Supernatural beings meaning they are beyond the natural being or state of being.

Peacefullove:
What exactly is this that returned to Lazarus body ? Lazarus himself or a force of life ?

Force of life.

Peacefullove:
Oh, Lazarus himself returned not soul. ( Eccl 12:7 means all person's go to heaven after death. ?

|||||||

Good, You are finally entering the trap .

So do you then agree that when Jesus said Father into your hands I commend my Spirit ( Jesus ) , it means Jesus himself not his breath, returned to heaven to be with the Father the day he dies ?

No.

Jesus committed his spirit which is his life (breathe) into the hand of God.
Jesus did not go to Heaven until 40ays after his resurrection.

John 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet
ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to
them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to
My God and your God.’

Michellekabod2:
so majority of Christians/churches are liars since they claim that after death a "ghost" ascends for judgement?

In this thread alone they are different versions of life after death ...lol


Christianity and confusion like bread and butter.

They are wrong.
Those who die are asleep in their graves awaiting the return of Jesus who has the reward to give to every man according to their works.

◄ Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to
give every man according as his work shall be.

Daniel 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall
awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and
everlasting contempt.

www.creation-science-prophecy.com/dead.htm

shadeyinka:
Thank you for your answer.
How about the Soul? You didn't say anything about it

The Hebrew term nephesh in the Old Testament and the Greek psuche in the New Testament are sometimes translated “soul,” but they both mean “life, person.” The different uses of those two words help us to obtain a better understanding of the biblical view of human nature. The confusion we face concerning the nature of the “soul” is because of the introduction of the Greek idea of the immortality of the “soul” into Christian doctrine. 1. The Hebrew meaning of nephesh: In the Old Testament the term nephesh is used in a concrete way to refer to the throat as it relates to breathing and eating (gullet). In Isaiah 5:14* the word nephesh is translated “appetite,” but it really means “throat” (see also Ps. 107:9, where “the thirsty” is literally “the dried-out throat” (nephesh ). The throat is also the instrument of breathing (Jer. 15:9). The use of the word for the throat indicates that nephesh expresses the idea of life and desire, in this case for food and water. The other uses of “soul” appear to be derived from this more concrete one. 2. The person as a being of desires: The need of the “soul” for food, water, and breath extends to include desires and emotions in general. In the Bible the “soul” designates the whole person as characterized by desires, wishes, even cravings. This emphasizes that humans are emotional beings. Proverbs states: “The laborer’s appetite [nephesh, desires, needs] works for him” (Prov. 16:26), that is to say, motivates him to work. The psalmist prays, “Do not turn me over to the desire [literally, “Do not give me up to the nephesh (desire, greed)] of my foes” (Ps. 27:12). Jesus said, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow,” that is to say, as an emotional being I am possessed by sorrow (Mark 14:34). 3. The person as a living being: The need for air or breath allows for “soul” to be used in the sense of life. We find such phrases as “I took my life [nephesh] in my hands,” meaning I risked my life (Judges 12:3; cf. Phil. 2:30); enemies “seek my life,” or attempt to kill me (Ps. 35:4; cf. Matt. 2:20); “Your life [psuche] will be demanded from you” (Luke 12:20). “Soul” does not designate a part of human nature independent of the body, but the totality of the person as a living being (Gen. 2:7). In fact, “soul” is another way of saying “person” or “human being.” The Lord said, “The soul [nephesh, person] who sins is the one who will die” (Eze. 8:4). The church must contend “as one man [psuche , person] for the faith” (Phil. 1:27). The “soul,” as a human being, is fundamentally a self, an individual who can in fact die. “Soul” in the Old Testament refers not only to a living person (Gen. 2:7), but also to a dead person (Num. 5:2; Lev. 21:11). 4. Grammatical use of “soul”: Since “soul” is used to refer to the person as a self, the term came to be used as a pronoun to designate a person. Abram asked Sarai to say that she was his sister in order that “my life [literally, “my soul,”] will be spared” (Gen. 12:13). The Hebrew way of saying “Let me live” (1 Kings 20:32) is “Let my soul live.” The phrase “that my soul may bless you before I die” (Gen. 27:4, NKJV) simply means “that I may bless you.” The word “soul” is not the best translation of the original Hebrew and Greek terms. In the Bible the “soul” is not immortal and cannot exist independent of the physical body. From the point of view of biblical anthropology (the study of human nature), the term “soul” expresses two main ideas. First, humans are by nature creatures of desires and ongings. Second, humans are living beings who eagerly seek to live but are unable to acquire or preserve life by themselves. “Soul” refers to the whole person in need of God, who is the only one who can preserve a human being or extinguish the self forever (Matt. 10:28). Therefore, nephesh/psuche refers to the totality of the person as a center of life, emotions, feelings, and longings that can be fully realized only in union with God. *Unless otherwise noted, Bible texts are from the New International Version.

budaatum:
[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A44&version=NIV]Love your enemies a lot[/url]!

[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NIV]Don't pressume others are inferior to you[/url]!

[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A1-11&version=NIV]Read book so devil will not overcome you[/url]!

I slept with 4 different women yesterday, because I truly love them did I commit a sin?


I stole a Bible in order to read and know God did I commit Sin?

shadeyinka:
In other words, there is a difference between a Soul and a Spirit.

If spirits are just life force (as you have been taught), life force for what?

Like it is easy to say God's spirit is the life force for a human being and when the life force exits the body, it DIES.

So, for angels, who are essentially life force (by your definition): what is the life force giving life to in the makeup of an Angel?

You are assuming that the word spirits always means life force, that is wrong.

Angels are spirits meaning they are supernatural beings who are powered by the power of life from God, which is the spirit or force from God.
Only God has life inherently Angels can only depend on God for their life.

Do you know that God is a spirit who has a spirit.

And to the angel of the church in Sardis , write: These things
says He Who has the seven spirits of God and the seven
stars . . . (Revelation 3:1).
And proceeding from the throne were lightnings and
thunders and voices; and seven lamps of fire, which are the
seven spirits of God, were burning before the throne
(Revelation 4:5, see also 5:6).

shadeyinka:
Do you think angels have souls?
And what is your definition of soul?
What is your definition of spirit?

*Spirit can be used to refer to mind, thoughts zeal, will,countenances,ones disposition.

Examples.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Genesis 41:8 And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.
Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psalms 77:3 I remembered God, and was troubled: I complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed. Selah.

Psalms 77:6 I call to remembrance my song in the night: I commune with mine own heart: and my spirit made diligent search.

*A super natural living being.
Example.
Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

*It can also mean capacity or zeal,

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Exodus 35:21 And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.

Numbers 11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

* It can also refer to life force or breathe or the power force of God.

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Exodus 35:21 And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.

Numbers 11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Job 33:4 The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;

budaatum:
Don't we have detailed explanation of what may offend Jesus listed in The Gospels According to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, with the Holy Spirit's direction?

You can give examples.

shadeyinka:
Do you think angels have souls?
And what is your definition of soul?
What is your definition of spirit?

It depends on what you think a soul is.

Like I said before a soul could mean the Mind or physce, personality of a person

A living being

A life , depending on the context it is used.

If you mean Soul as mind then the answer is yes Angels have Soul. Ezekiel 28:10-25 and Isaiah 14 talks about the Devil having a desire to be God.

A Spirit refers to a living supernatural being like God,Angels, Demons.

The breathe or life force.

The Mind ,thoughts,will,zeal, reasoning of a person.

All this are provable from the Bible.
I will do that later.

MuttleyLaff:
1/ What gets judged blueAgent?
2/ Is it the soul or the spirit?
3/ The ______ that sin, shall die. Fill in the blank blueAgent.

its obvious You don't know what a soul means.

The word Soul can mean 3 different things in the bible depending on the context it is used.

The word soul in the bible can mean 3different things.
1.A living being
2.The mind, thinking, ones physce
3.. it can also mean life or breathe.

To answer your question.
A person is judge and punished, there is no division of body soul and spirit that is judge.


The Soul that sinneth shall die. can be translated to mean
The person that sinneth shall die.
or the Man that Sinneth shall die.

Michellekabod2:
Body-flesh that decays and becomes dust Soul-innerman/what occupies flesh Spirit-breath of life/life giving energy that powers human Correct me if am wrong on this

True.

Peacefullove
shadeyinka

I have been following the arguments between you 2.
I want to say both of you are partly right.

Man does not have a Soul but Man is a living Soul.

There is nothing like the Soul of a dead man.
Ones a person dies the Soul ceases to exist.

Its like one having nails and wood and the person decides to make a box.

when the person dismantles the box he has only 2 things left that is the nails and wood but no box.

So also when God made man, God brought our body to come in contact with his spirit which is also referred to as breathe and Man became a living Soul.
Just as the box no longer exist when it has been dismantled so aslo the soul stop existing ones the breathe leaves the body.
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of
the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the
breath of life; and man became a living soul.


There is no life or consciousnesses in the grave, all those are pagan teachings.


Another argument I observed is on what is resurrected weather it is the physical body or spiritual body.

based on the word of God it is the physical body that is resurrected and transformed for the just, to a body that lives above death and sin.

JMAN05:
Understand my position. I said that while christ was alive, the law was still in force. Jesus lived by the law, although he keep emphasizing the principles behind the law. Such principles are still valid. But after Christ's death, the law ended. Col 2:14 helps us see this, 'Christ nailed it through his death'. verses 16 to 17 stated that none should be judged on the requirements of the law again. It is just a shadow. Christ is the realty. It was after his death all these happened.

When someone has fulfilled the law, what need is there for the law? Will christ come back to refulfill it? Jesus didnt come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. Yes, while Jesus was alive, he didnt disobey the law. He lived by it, that was the was to fulfill it. The principles found in the law is still good for us all. However, it has lost its authority as a means to weigh righteousness. But we can learn something from it even today.



There are principles in the law that is of interest to us all. However, had that man continually followed Jesus, he would come to know when the law finally ended. Jesus could even at that time state that any who follow him be circumcised. But later, that was no longer required. why? because Jesus death ended the law. Remember if you adhere to the law as a means for justification, you are obligated to keep every single pin of that law. Not just the weekly sabbath, but even other more that 7 sabbatical system. Do you keep all those?

You Make me laugh.

"Had man continually fellowed Jesus" this is your statement.
How do we know what Jesus will do and not do?

Me you and billions of people did not have the priveldge of meeting Jesus.

So how do we know things we can do and things we are not allowed to do in order not to offend Jesus?

JMAN05:
Understand my position. I said that while christ was alive, the law was still in force. Jesus lived by the law, although he keep emphasizing the principles behind the law. Such principles are still valid. But after Christ's death, the law ended. Col 2:14 helps us see this, 'Christ nailed it through his death'. verses 16 to 17 stated that none should be judged on the requirements of the law again. It is just a shadow. Christ is the realty. It was after his death all these happened.

When someone has fulfilled the law, what need is there for the law? Will christ come back to refulfill it? Jesus didnt come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. Yes, while Jesus was alive, he didnt disobey the law. He lived by it, that was the was to fulfill it. The principles found in the law is still good for us all. However, it has lost its authority as a means to weigh righteousness. But we can learn something from it even today.



There are principles in the law that is of interest to us all. However, had that man continually followed Jesus, he would come to know when the law finally ended. Jesus could even at that time state that any who follow him be circumcised. But later, that was no longer required. why? because Jesus death ended the law. Remember if you adhere to the law as a means for justification, you are obligated to keep every single pin of that law. Not just the weekly sabbath, but even other more that 7 sabbatical system. Do you keep all those?

How can the law be done away with when Jesus died, since it was to uphold that very law that Jesus had to die?

JMAN05:
I ve heard that position before. however, I think that is not consistent with the rest of the scriptures. For example, talking about the law being done away with, see what Roms 7:6,7 says

"But now we have been released from the Law, because we have died to that which restrained us, in order that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit and not in the old sense by the written code.
7 What, then, are we to say? Is the Law sin? Certainly not! Really, I would not have come to know sin had it not been for the Law. For example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: “You must not covet."

Paul gave the example of the law we were released from. it includes the ten commandment.

All the commandments in the law are still part of the law that if you fail one, you fail all. Jesus did mention that the second greatest commandment is love for neighbor (matt 22:39). Is that command part of the 10 commandments? So, you are implying that in the future, love for neighbor, the second greatest, will be done away with? That is just one, their many beautiful commandments in the law that are not of the 10.

All these are part of the commands done away with. like, i said before, it does not mean that its principles are not relevant today. it is.

matt 22:39

You read out of context.
Paul is simply saying that we have been released from the penalty of the law which is death.
Remember that people were stoned to death for breaking any of the 10 commandments.
Why because the wages of Sin is death.

Paul asked the people that since we are no longer to stone people are we now allowed to continue to sin(break the law) he gave the answer as no. rather we should establish that is keep the law.

Remember God cannot change, what God called and saw as sin 10000yrs ago he still regards as sin today.

If people were stoned for breaking the sabbath,committing adultery stealing, disobeying parents.
then tell me why they would not be punished by God for doing the same now?

JMAN05:
verse 27 answers, "Law of faith". Christians are declared righteous by this law of faith, which is also the law of Christ. verse 28 explands by stating that it is not by works, ie, works of the mosaic law, but by faith. verses 29, and 30 shows that it is by this law of faith that someone uncircumcised is declared righteous. That would be against the law had the law been in force.




I know, and part of James point is that they were not obeying the love of neighbor law. (see verse but that law is not part of the ten. It is even more important than the others mentioned there. Yet, you cant observe neighborly love in isolation of the other laws mentioned there.

Which one is law of faith?

Paul has already told you that faith does not nullify the law rather that we should establish the law.

JMAN05:
verse 27 answers, "Law of faith". Christians are declared righteous by this law of faith, which is also the law of Christ. verse 28 explands by stating that it is not by works, ie, works of the mosaic law, but by faith. verses 29, and 30 shows that it is by this law of faith that someone uncircumcised is declared righteous. That would be against the law had the law been in force.




I know, and part of James point is that they were not obeying the love of neighbor law. (see verse but that law is not part of the ten. It is even more important than the others mentioned there. Yet, you cant observe neighborly love in isolation of the other laws mentioned there.

Stop confusing yourself, mixing or seeing all the word law in Bible as referring to the 10commandments.