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Finished Mystery 1917 By Charles Taze Russell the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses.
Is a book I believe every JW should read about their true and faithful man of a God, It was this man-who wasn't educated in the scriptures until he believes God had spoken with Him, and of course he had written his adventurer in a book called the Finished Mystery 1917 which was published in 1917 Advertised and the posthumous work of Pastor Charles.T. Russell and published by the Watchtower bible to track society {Now known as Jehovah Witnesses} The Book was later written by C.J.Woodworth and George Fisher and authorised for publication by J.F.Rutherford, second President of the Watchtower society, it was consided a volume 7 of studies in the scriptures by those bible students who stayed in fellowship with Rutherford.
The Finished Mystery is referenced in modern publications of the Jehovah Witnesses as being a landmark book. Best viewed in PDF Format.
These are some of Charles Russell's teaching below He himself believed along with J Rutherford C.Woodworth, and George Fisher and of course the students that stood beside Rutherford.
Charles Russell believed he was a faithful and wise servant {P 4}
He believed Jesus gave Him the key to understanding God's mysteries in the Last Days { P 6}
Charles Russell believed Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega in {Revelation 1:8, 21:6 and 22:13 on P 15, P 318, P 336}
He also told his followers "There is no need to study after the Hebrew and Greek languages to gain a correct and understanding of the bible because the Presbyterians and the Methodist have good versions of the bible at reasonable prices {P 55}

This is the one question you won't receive from a JW-many of us have asked-in all different ways-do they believe in Christ well enough to accept Him-No is the Answer. JW's don't worship Jesus.

alexis:
CANTICLES



It is a simple question isn't it. Is Jesus a lesser god than Jehovah?



Cha - you were referring to God Himself going to minister to who-so-ever and you gave an example of Moses. I had raised the question earlier about why Jesus; why did God bring Jesus in the picture if He is everything and can do everything Himself. You then gave an example of God sending Moses as He sent Jesus. I then went ahead to give example about God ministering Himself in Genesis to Abraham showing that God can go Himself as He had done in the past.

So, stop deflecting the question - why Jesus? If God is the creator, why did He create the everything through Jesus and by Jesus? Why? Why did Jesus claim that He was God? Why Jesus, that is my question Bros. Please do justice and answer the question and stop running away.



Malu - moses was a man; Moses didn't create the universe, moses isn't and wasn't the WORD. God didn't tell angels to worship Moses. God didn't call moses God. All those attributes are only related to Jesus. Hence the reason I asked you why Jesus. If you don't have an answer, please say so and stop ranting



Since you want to play pretend, let me quote your own JW publications:

Russell taught that we should worship Jesus and the initial Watchtower Charter's specified that establishment of the Watchtower Society was to promote the worship of Jehovah and Jesus. Yet since the 1950's, worshipping Jesus became regarded as wrongful idolatry. Russell promoted the worship of Jesus and prayer to him because he is our God.

"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...." Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3

And again:

"Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man." Zion's Watch Tower 1898 Jul 15 p.216

Rutherford continued:

"Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah's purpose (Heb.:3-6)." Watchtower 1939 Nov 15 p.339

Some more for you:

"Now, at Christ's coming to reign as king in Jehovah's capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the godly angels or messengers and accordingly commands them to worship him. Since Jehovah God now reigns as King by means of his capital organization Zion, then whosoever would worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah's Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus, his Co-regent on the throne of The Theocracy." Watchtower 1945 Oct 15 p.313

There are many many more publications before 1950's where JW doctrine stated clearly that Jehovah and Jesus should be worshiped. I tried to ask you if it was true and you ignored me. So I am asking again, from the watch-tower magazines and articles; did JW worship Jesus at any time?

Not only that, the Bible is clear:

Matthew 14:2-33:

25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.
26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshiped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Again, I will ask, do JW worship Jesus?

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

goodnews201668:
Lie lie john the baby slander, the false teacher. Double poster and impostor is everything alright with you? "Do you still have something upstairs"?

Firstly-I have already written about the divine nature and what the bible say's who retrieves such nature.
Sorry the JW's don't get a mention, unless one is born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of God..

Secondly-Even a Child knows the scriptures? What day is the Sabbath day of the week.
Dolphinheart don't know.Your refusal to choose to stay in darkness, will blind you even more away from the truth. Not knowing why you practice pagan religion just shows how brain dead you sound.

On the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day, And God blessed this day and sanctified it, because he rested from all His work {Genesis 2:2-3} Because God rested on the seventh day.
He designated a Holy day to be remembered for all time.
"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy," He says in the fourth commandment "Six days you shall labour and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God {Exodus 28:7-10}
{Exodus 20:11. Ezekiel 20:12} The Lord blessed the seventh day and Hallowed it. More over I will give them my Sabbath to be a sign between them and Me. It was a custom for the Jews to meet on the Sabbath Saturday, Jesus preached on the Sabbath, {Acts 17:2. 18:4} Paul's custom were to teach on the Holy Sabbath day of the week.
But the fact is, it was the Roman Catholic Church who had changed the Sabbath into the Sunday worship-because it reflects to there Sun worship of Pagan religion.
The Catholic's and dolphinheart had once again been exposed they both worship against the Christ-only to worship after other god's' god's that reflect back to their Sun.

dolphinheart:
HE IS TRYING TO CHANGE THE ISSUES AGAIN, WHEN THEY ARE EXPOSED , THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.

who be "we", you that could not quote and explain certain scriptures, now want to determine the translation one will use, I've quoted from the kjv to you, you could not reply.


see excuse, so that's why you too decided to dribble yourself by saying we are part of divine nature cus we are made in God's image, then you contradict yourself with" by the promise, we MAY BECOME SHARERS in divine nature! . wish one should we believe, are we part/participants/ sharers of divine nature which you ascribed to the godhead or are we to become part of it at a later date!


you need the spirit of God to guide us to do what? pls always complete your statements.


nice one, only that I've seen such tactics used before, ego rountrippling, making claims that cannot be investigated, making accusations that cannot be verified so that you can sound important and spirit filled.


him both?, because saying it correctly will expose you, you have decided to falsify English!
well the scriptures has separated "them", not him, and says we gain evaluating life by knowing them , not him.

Joh 17:3This means everlasting life, their coming to know you,(1st person) the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.(2nd person)
Joh 17:4I have glorified you on the earth,(2nd person glorifying 1st person) having finished the work you have given me to do.(2nd person does the work of first person )

I've told you before brocab, nowadays, the only way you can alter what the scripture says is to claim the holy spirit helped you to do so, cus you know you can easily lie that you have the holy spirit. but do you know how I can decipher if you are telling the truth or not, it is done through questions, examinING the scriptures and checkING the persons character and behavior. you have failed in all this three .
1. For months now, you have made statements, but once a question is asked about those statements, you falter and try to change the topic, or you refuse to respond .
2. For months now, you have been asked to quote and explain certain scriptures, but you refuse to cus they will render your beliefs as false.
3. as for your character, you have tried to defame others, saying things about them that you can't prove. you have lied deliberately and acted shifty when it comes to issues under discussion, you try to raise yourself above others, claiming to have things that they don't have, thinking such statements will mean you are saying the truth.


you are a very funny guy, Ive shown you how your for fathers added words into the scriptures to support their trinity, it has been proven to you that those words where not in the scriptures initially, evedence has been shown to you on how the addition took place. But when I Did so, all you could do was change the topic, cuso you could not refute the fact.

DOLPHINHEART QUOTE-PLS TELL WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE PARTAKES OF THE DIVINE NATURE?
FIRSTLY I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE MUST BE BORN AGAIN BEFORE HE/SHE PARTAKES IN THE DIVINE NATURE.
WHICH LEAVES YOU OUT DOLPHINHEART YOU DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN CHRIST WELL ENOUGH TO ACCEPT HIM AS YOUR LORD AND SAVOUR.
Answer-{2 Peter 1:3-4} Say's His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us to His own Glory and excellence, by which He had granted to us His precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakes of the divine nature. Having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire, {ESV Bible} The verse plainly say's that believers are made partakers of the divine nature" through God's promise, but what does this mean? To what extent can we be part of God's nature.
The key to understand this concept is to recognise what the bible means when it refers to our "Nature".
Every human is born with a sin nature, a natural bent towards pleasing self"{Romans 5:12, 7:14}
Our natural selves can not please God {Romans 8:8}
No matter how hard we try to do good, our motivations are underlying desires, are please and promote ourselves. That sin nature keeps us from fellowship with God, keeps us in bondage to sin, and leads eventually to spiritual death {Romans 5:16, 23, 7:14. 2 Peter 2:19}
We cannot free ourselves from sin, because we cannot change our own natures, Just as a tiger cannot change it's own stripes.
That's why we need a savour, Jesus said there is only one way we can get a new, divine nature. He said you must be born again {John 3:3}
Only a complete new birth can bring about the radical change of nature required to fellowship with the Holy God.
Mental agreement with God's Word is not enough to change our sin nature.
"WE MUST BE SAVED" from the natural {Ephesians 2:8-9. Titus 3:5}
Salvation implies that we were helpless, and we have been rescued from the evil bent from our human nature.
When we come to Christ in faith, accepting His death and resurrection as our substitute, we declare Him to be our lord in our lives {Romans 10:8-9} At that moment the Holy Spirit "BIRTHS" us into the family of God. Our old nature is defeated, and we receive a NEW DIVINE NATURE that desires the things of God {2 Corinthians 5:17}
When Christ died for us, He became our sin, so that when we come to Him in faith, we gain His righteousness {2 Corinthians 5:21} It is a divine exchange: our sin for His perfection. TO BE BORN AGAIN MEANS WE ARE RECREATED AS NEW PEOPLE WITH A NEW NATURE.
Believers have a divine nature, and no-longer have to be enslaved to the passions of sin to the flesh {Romans 6:6,14} {1 John 3:9} Say's No one who is born of God will continual to sin, Because GOD'S SEED REMAINS IN THEM. they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
When we share in His divine nature" we begin to desire the things God desires. We love what He loves, and we hate what He hates.{Galatians 5:22. 1 John 4:4} We have the power to conquer every temptation that comes against us {1 Corinthians 10:13} God declares that we are "more than conqueror's" because of the power of the Holy Spirit who dwells within our hearts {Romans 8:37} Sin no-longer controls the one who has become a partaker of the divine nature. By given us His nature, GOD MAKES US HIS SONS AND DAUGHTERS AND CONFORMS US TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON {Romans 8:29. 2 Corinthians 6:18}...................
WHAT WILL BE THE FALSE ALLEGATIONS DOLPHINHEART WILL HAVE AGAINST THE BIBLE THIS TIME?
In summary, the Godhead is the essence of the Divine being: the Godhead is one and only deity; Jesus incarnated Godhead. Entered our world and showed us who God is, No-one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who Himself God, and is close relationship with the Father, has made Him known {John 1:18. Hebrews 1:3}

dolphinheart:
that knowledge sir, exists only in your mind, a mind trained to refuse to see , quote and explain certain scriptures.


and if I ask you to show me where I did the mocking now, you wunt be able to respond! always ready to lay false accusations but never ready to defend it!


you've asked this question before, and I've answered you.


see reasoning!


did I say I did not believe Jesus and the father are not one? no , so you just ranted for nothing. look at what I said again and let's see it you will say it's a lie

"could you explain those scriptures? no , I've quoted them and explained them to you before.
The underlined parts of John 17 helps explain what Jesus meant by " I and the Father are one, does it not?, does it not show you that Jesus is not saying " I and the Father are one God? . does it not show you that Jesus is talking about unity of purpose ?
I do know you will not respond!

{John 17:20-22} I do not pray for these alone, but also those who will believe in Me through their word, that they maybe one, as you, Father, one in Me, and I in You; that they also maybe One in Us, that the world may believe that you sent Me. And the glory which you gave Me, I have given them, that they are one just as we are One.[/b]



yes trinity is not written in the scriptures, it had to be fomulated by men , using words and statements they had illegally added into the scriptures!
its sad to hear you say trinity is another word for godhead, why do you use trinity (man made word) instead of godhead( the one you claim is in the bible), why does the kjv not translate the three different words in the Hebrew texts to be trinity instead of Godhead.


yes, because Jesus did not say " he is one God". do not add to what the scriptures say.


well , I've been quoting and explaining the scriptures on these thread, why would I not read them before explaining.
pagan Sunday?, I don't understand what you mean by pagan Sunday, what is pagan Sunday?
instead of Sabbath sartudday?, are you implying there was a day the scripture set aside for worship by Christians ?, cus me I try to worship god everyday o!


wait! I've I ever said anything different about that verse?, you just brought a verse up, and lay false accusations. who does that!



can you see how you dribble yourself , we are part of divine nature cus we are made in God's image, then you contradict yourself with" by the promise, we MAY BECOME SHARERS in divine nature! . wish one should we believe, are we part/participants/ sharers of divine nature which you ascribed to the godhead or are we to become part of it at a later date!

well verse 4 clears it for you brocab, you are not yet part of the divine nature , and no matter the number of "I am this , I am that " you say, this truth will remain standing.

For a third time running , you failed to answer this question :
PLS BROCAB, IN YOUR REPLY TO THIS POST, PLS TELL, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE.
note: some translations use "share", "sharers" , "participate".

It doesn't matter how many times we have explained to you the word-you will always find away to argue the point-which gives us knowledge you haven't the slightest idea which bible you should be reading-I believe you should stick with the bible you know best, the KJV, and not your own bible "which of course the NWT confuses you.
Everything sounds dripple to you-only because you are swapping from one bible to another, trying to prove your senseless point.
The bible was written simple, you don't need rocket science to know the scriptures, a Child at the age of 12 years can read and understand the word of God, we just need the Spirit of God to guild us. This is why we Christians read the bible as it sounds-because we search the scriptures and find the answers from God Himself.
But you in the other hand dolphinheart 'you are relying on your own understanding to find any answers, you not having the Spirit of God to guild you-shows the spirit in you is dead.
Did you not know the word is a living word, and the word has been given to us Christians, who had decided to believe in Christ and become born again Christians-as the word had told us to do.
Dolphinheart the word is alive, like He was from the beginning in each of us, like the Father lived in Jesus and Jesus lived in the Father, His word lives on.
You in the other hand-are trying to work your way up without faith to be with Jehovah, you yourself don't recognise the Spirit of God, only because you have refused to believe God's Spirit lived in Jesus. Nor do you believe Jesus and God are one the same.
Every Christian knows nothing is done without the Spirit of God. Jesus didn't work alone-He needed the Father, just as the Father needed Him, we need Him both-to work though us, with us, and work around us. Without the Spirit of God you are dead.
{Matthew 8:22} Jesus told them follow Me, and let the dead bury the dead
Why Is this so hard for you to understand Christ lives in each of us, He had told His disciples He will send them another helper the Holy Spirit-who you yourself have denied He is a person and this person is part of the Godhead, these 3 are 1.
Jesus lived in His Father and the Father lived in Him, we can do nothing without having to Lord living in us, In the name of Jesus-is the name above every other name 'either in the heavens, on Earth, and under the earth.
Every knee shall bow down to Jesus, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus is Jehovah God who's coming in the clouds that every eye will see-Who is who was, and who is coming.
The Holy Spirit is used back then as He is used today, without the Holy Spirit-we can't do nothing without Him the Son nor the Father. Is it really impossible for you to realise, Jesus said go out unto all the world baptising them, in the Name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. No organisation or no Church building is mentioned. Why because the Church is the body, and the body is Christ.
{Matthew 23:13} "But who unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye shut up the Kingdom of heaven against men; for ye neither go in yourselves, nor will you allow those who want to enter in.
Listening to you dolphinheart really makes a difference on peoples lives, you won't go into heaven nor will you allow anyone else to go in.
Don't you realise the truth about Christ is travelling at a faster rate across the nations, the word of God is spreading faster then you think dolphinheart, and their is nothing you can do to stop it.
What? Is this true You don't understand about the Pagan Sunday? Most Churches carry on the pagan practices.
Forget your comeback-Check out this video's below it may help you understand the importance, we all need to know about Paganism.
And your Church as well as every other Church are practising Pagan religion.
History about the Pagan Isis goddess-and later it was Constantine-who brought the Pagan worship into the Roman Catholic Churches-and since then under Rome the Roman Catholic's had never Changed their Sun worship from Sun-day. God said you shalt not worship any other God, and Him only you shall serve.
Pagans believe in "Queen Isis, and the Catholic's believe in Mary-but the Sabbath is the last day of the week-when God finished His work.
Have you ever seen inside the Vatican, their are pictures and statues of Suns everywhere-look On the clothing the Popes and the priest wear-it has the Sun pictured on their backs.
It is really interesting, to watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xta31joiIhU

dolphinheart:
that knowledge sir, exists only in your mind, a mind trained to refuse to see , quote and explain certain scriptures.


and if I ask you to show me where I did the mocking now, you wunt be able to respond! always ready to lay false accusations but never ready to defend it!


you've asked this question before, and I've answered you.


see reasoning!


did I say I did not believe Jesus and the father are not one? no , so you just ranted for nothing. look at what I said again and let's see it you will say it's a lie

"could you explain those scriptures? no , I've quoted them and explained them to you before.
The underlined parts of John 17 helps explain what Jesus meant by " I and the Father are one, does it not?, does it not show you that Jesus is not saying " I and the Father are one God? . does it not show you that Jesus is talking about unity of purpose ?
I do know you will not respond!

{John 17:20-22} I do not pray for these alone, but also those who will believe in Me through their word, that they maybe one, as you, Father, one in Me, and I in You; that they also maybe One in Us, that the world may believe that you sent Me. And the glory which you gave Me, I have given them, that they are one just as we are One.[/b]



yes trinity is not written in the scriptures, it had to be fomulated by men , using words and statements they had illegally added into the scriptures!
its sad to hear you say trinity is another word for godhead, why do you use trinity (man made word) instead of godhead( the one you claim is in the bible), why does the kjv not translate the three different words in the Hebrew texts to be trinity instead of Godhead.


yes, because Jesus did not say " he is one God". do not add to what the scriptures say.


well , I've been quoting and explaining the scriptures on these thread, why would I not read them before explaining.
pagan Sunday?, I don't understand what you mean by pagan Sunday, what is pagan Sunday?
instead of Sabbath sartudday?, are you implying there was a day the scripture set aside for worship by Christians ?, cus me I try to worship god everyday o!


wait! I've I ever said anything different about that verse?, you just brought a verse up, and lay false accusations. who does that!



can you see how you dribble yourself , we are part of divine nature cus we are made in God's image, then you contradict yourself with" by the promise, we MAY BECOME SHARERS in divine nature! . wish one should we believe, are we part/participants/ sharers of divine nature which you ascribed to the godhead or are we to become part of it at a later date!

well verse 4 clears it for you brocab, you are not yet part of the divine nature , and no matter the number of "I am this , I am that " you say, this truth will remain standing.

For a third time running , you failed to answer this question :
PLS BROCAB, IN YOUR REPLY TO THIS POST, PLS TELL, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE.
note: some translations use "share", "sharers" , "participate".

Everyone already knows you aren't a man of God-and everything you say against a Christian-only leads back to you.
Matter of fact you are quiet funny, and I only reply back to you, because you do mock the KJ bible, and most of the other bibles as well.
And yet you can't seem to take your eye's away from them when quoting the scriptures?
You don't use your own bible-why is that
This must prove the KJ version holds the truth, who God really is.
{John 17} If you were to say to me, after I had seen you do many miracles like Jesus had done, raising the dead, healing the sick, preaching the word etc..
And without my understanding the word of God, I would also think the same as you, having completely no understanding what had just happened.
But because I have become a Christian, and I had seen you do all these wonderful things, and you said to me, you are in the Father and the Father is in you. I would believe you, because as a Christian, I know Jesus couldn't do anything without His Father, I and the Father are one.
Trinity doesn't need to be written in the bible-its just another word used for Godhead, the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, and these 3 are One, otherwise I and the Father are One.
It's not ok to add the trinity theory-but it seems its ok for you to add-Jesus didn't say He is One God. When the bible correctly said I and the Father are one.
In stead of mocking, why don't you read the scriptures before you start judging us.
If the pagan name is bothering you, because we Christians use the name Trinity, than I ask " if it's the pagan practises you are worried about-then why do you worship on pagan Sunday, Instead on the Sabbath Saturday?
{Matthew 12:48} Jesus said who is My mother and who are my brothers, and then He turned towards His disciples and said these are My mother and My brothers for who does the will of My Father is My mother and My brothers and sisters.
This scripture say's it as it sounds, Jesus calls them family.
You always try and find ways to disbelieve in the scriptures, trying to make a mockery out of God's word.
{2 Peter 1:2-4} is another scripture you had refuse to believe. These scriptures may not sound to you dolphinheart, but as a Christian these verses are clear to me? And these scriptures shows we are part of God's nature, we have been made in His and Jesus's image.. {Genesis God said let Us make Man in "Our" image-so which image was The Lord God preferring too?}
We are all made for God's purpose, everything He made was made for Him.
KJ Version {v 4} By the promises we may become shares in the divine nature.
Does this mean because we have chosen to believe in Christ?
You wouldn't believe it, but without you knowing it, we are actually part of God's creation {Ephesians 2:10}
We are part of God's divine plan {Ephesians 1:11, Romans 8:28, 1 Corinthians 12:6, Psalms 135:6} everything that God had made we have been moulded by His Hands being part of His creation, the heavens, the skies, the angels, everything, God needed us, just as much, as we need Him.
It's a pity dolphinheart you can only see-what is put in front of you-you can't go beyond your teaching status-Jesus is calling you into His kingdom and all you need to do is accept His call.

dolphinheart:
yes I do not, like you said , they are indirect knowledge based on false and wrong ana logy of the scriptures, they are man made doctrines that cannot stand scrutiny, hence you refusal to answer questions and quote and explain scriptures. The concept of trinity was taking from pagan worship and not the scriptures.
The most dangerous part of this teachings is its many different concept.

as for the Godhead, even the NKJV is adjusting small small!


CONTINUE YOUR LIES!



could you explain those scriptures? no , I've quoted them and explained them to you before.
The underlined parts of John 17 helps explain what jesus meant by " I and the Father are one, does it not?, does it not show you that Jesus is not saying " I and the Father are one God? . does it not show you that Jesus is talking about unity of purpose ?
I do know you will not respond!


need for what?


if you have read the scriptures well well, and not just quoting it to find fault, but quoting it to fully understand it, you would have understood when being gods children will occur.!
you would have also understood why they will be brothers to jesus but sons to God, why they will be heirs with jesus and Co rulers with him.
But since you read the scriptures with the sole aim of finding fault , you will not understand what it's telling you. Which affects your inability to explain certain scriptures, or respond to certain posts from me where explanation are being given!



you first lay false accusation, then use these false accusation to call me a liar and a cheat, brocab, that method will not work! on previous cases where you had made such allegations, I called you out to prove it, you could not, so you decided to adopt this new method .

your character is already known, but it still does not prevent me from asking you the question you refuse to answer:

[b]Now let's put brocabs sincerity to the test, pls note if he will respond.
he had earlier said this:


now the kjv says this in 2 peter 1:3,4
King James Bible
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

PLS BROCAB, IN YOUR REPLY TO THIS POST, PLS TELL, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE.
note: some translations us "sharers" , "participate".
expo: 1 Co 15:50-54; Php 3:10, 11; 1Pe 5:1; 2Pe 1:2-4; Re 20:6.

You don't believe in the Trinity, nor do you believe in the Godhead: Nor do you accept we are all part of the body of Christ, which makes us Sons to the most high God.
{John 17:20-22} I do not pray for these alone, but also those who will believe in Me through their word, that they maybe one, as you, Father, one in Me, and I in You; that they also maybe One in Us, that the world may believe that you sent Me. And the glory which you gave Me, I have given them, that they are one just as we are One.
{1 John 2:1-3} Behold what matter of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called Children of God. Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know him. Beloved now we are children of God; and it has not been revealed that we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And if everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, Just as He is pure.
{Galatians 3:24-27} Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith, but after faith has come we are no longer under the tutor. For we are all Sons of God, through faith of Jesus Christ, for as many of you were baptised into Christ have put on Christ.
{1 Corinthians 12:27} Now you are the body of Christ.
{Romans 8:14} "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God , these are Sons of God, For you did not receive the Spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the spirit of adoption by whom we cry "Abba Father".
This of course is enough evidence we Christians need-but this doesn't answer for you dolphinheart, your organisation are not classed as God's sons and dauthers, until you hand your lives over to Christ fully, you will never become a true believers in Him, and you will never understand the scriptures fully, to even know where you all stand with Christ. And if you had the Spirit of God, you would know who you are in Christ, you would know you are a child of Christ-and you would know His Spirit lives in you.
Which makes you a lair and a cheat. By their fruit we will know them.

dolphinheart:
he will not answer that question, it will affect his false doctrine.

Which God do you know?

goodnewscliff:
we knw GOD and believe in him and preach abt him and worship him in the right way...d question is do u worship GOD in d right way

Does this mean you are letting the Christians handle the scriptures now?
Because you haven't the slightest idea, what the verse had said?

MizJanet:
don't lie, you have never handled deadly snake's its either your Jesus lied in that verse or you are not a genuine follower of ur Jesus

MizJanet:
don't lie, you have never handled deadly snake's

Well said!

solite3:
Jesus' church is not of this world

Can I ask dolphinheart what are you talking about, none of what you have written make any sense. And every time I had shared the word of God to you, it seems you think by tearing the words I give to you apart, this gives you some sort of power that strengthens you, over myself and God's word.
To be honest, the word of God stands above, and everything you say against it will not prevail.
Do You honestly believe you are right and the bible is wrong-this of course makes you look like a fool, I am trying to help you dolphinheart to see the scriptures as they stand, of course you believe otherwise, and because you are spiritually dead, which doesn't help.
I pointed it out where in scripture it talks about the Godhead, but because you refuse to believe who Christ is, you have tried to rip the scriptures apart, twisting them into your own words of disbelievement.
And because the bible doesn't mean anything to you-then I advise you-to leave it with those who had chosen to believe in the scriptures. And of course we Christians had chosen. We have carried the Word of God across the nations, sharing to you, and the other atheist belonging to your Church about Christ.
Which you and your organisation have refused to do so. And with your own mental state of mind, you can't seem to break through your darkness of fears, nor are you allowing anybody else to break through their darkness of fears, the truth is the bible is right in every way possible and you and your associates are wrong.
No-one can beat the word of God, not even you-once it's written it stays written. You either believe it, or you don't, it's as simple as that, Jesus said He would rather you to be Hot or Cold then Lukewarm.
And from the evidence across the world the JW's are lukewarm. You are dead in the natural and you are dead spiritually.
You either believe in Christ fully, or you stay dead eternally.

dolphinheart:
YOU COULD NOT REPLY TO THE POST DIRECTED TO YOU, THE NEXT THING IS TO QUOTE MY POST DIRECTED TO SOME ONE ELSE.




for the Greek text of acts 17:29, check this Web page:
biblehub.com/text/acts/17-29.htm

Theion may refer to
θεῖον, Greek for " sulfur "
θεῖον, Greek for "divine",
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theion_(disambiguation)


Englishman's Concordance
θεῖον (theion) — 1 Occurrence
Acts 17:29 Adj-ANS
GRK: ἀνθρώπου τὸ θεῖον εἶναι ὅμοιον
NAS: not to think that the Divine Nature is like
KJV: not to think that the Godhead is like
INT: of man that which [is] divine to be like

At acts 17:29 , Paul, when in Athens, showed that it is illogical for humans to imagine that “the Divine Being [to theiʹon, form of theiʹos ] is like gold or silver or stone.” Many translators here use terms such as “the Godhead,” “the Deity,” or “the divinity” ( KJ, AS, Dy, ED, JB, RS ), while E. J. Goodspeed’s translation says “the divine nature.”
According to The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, the expression to theiʹon “is derived from the adjective theíos, meaning ‘pertaining to God,’ ‘divine.’” (Edited by G. Bromiley, 1979, Vol. 1, p. 913)

Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon gives as the meaning “the Divinity.” (Revised by H. Jones, Oxford, 1968, pp. 787, 788)

So the phrase to theiʹon can be understood to refer to a person or to a quality. Obviously, then, the context must guide the translator in his choice of words. Here at acts 17:29, the context clearly shows that the person of God is being described, and so the expression is appropriately rendered “Divine Being” in the New World Translation. —Compare NIV.

Paul was a witness of the artistic splendor of Athens, developed around the worship of the Grecian gods and goddesses, and he showed an audience there how illogical it was that humans, owing their life and existence to the true God and Creator, should imagine that “the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, like something sculptured by the art and contrivance of man.” He thus demonstrated again that artistic beauty, no matter how impressive or attractive, does not of itself recommend any religion as being true worship.—Compare . joh 4:23, 24


At this point, I'll like to emphasis the silliness of brocabs attack on the difference in translations between the NWT and the KJV
Acts 17:29
NKJV: that the Divine Nature
KJV: that the Godhead
King James 2000 Bible: that the Deity

PLS NOTE THE DIFFERENCES IN THIS TRANSLATIONS AND NOTE WHAT THEY TRANSLATED THE GREEK WORD AS. THIS RUBISHES BROCABS CLAIMS ABOUT TRANSLATIONS ABOVE.

................................

For the Greek text of Rom 1:20, check this Web page
biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/1-20.htm

θειότης (theiotēs) — 1 Occurrence
Romans 1:20 N-NFS
GRK: δύναμις καὶ θειότης εἰς τὸ
NAS: power and divine nature, have been clearly seen,
KJV: power and Godhead; so that they
INT: power and divinity for

Strong's Concordance
theiotés: divinity, divine nature
Original Word: θειότης, ητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theiotés
Phonetic Spelling: (thi-ot'-ace)
Short Definition: divinity
Definition: divinity, divine nature
biblehub.com/greek/2305.htm

At romans 1:20, the apostle refers to the undeniable visible evidence of God’s “invisible qualities,” particularly his “eternal power and Godship [Thei·oʹtes ].” Other translations read “Godhead” or “deity” ( KJ, NE, RS, JB), conveying to many the idea of personality, the state of being a person.
However, according to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, the Greek word thei·oʹtes means “divine nature, divinity.” (P. 788) So there is a basis for rendering thei·oʹtes as referring to the quality of being a god, not the person of God, and this is supported by the context.
The apostle is discussing things that are discernible in the physical creation. For example, while the creation does not reveal the name of God, it does give evidence of his “eternal power”—needed to create and sustain the universe. The physical creation also displays his “Godship,” the fact that the Creator truly is God and is worthy of our worship.

The creative works testify to the fact that God exists. But, according to Paul, even certain of those people who “knew God” suppressed this truth. Rather than serving God in harmony with the truth concerning his eternal power and Godship, they made idols and worshiped these. Not being real gods, idols are an untruth, a lie or falsehood.
Hence, these persons, though having the truth of God, exchanged it “for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created.” Their turning to the falsehood of idolatry led them into all kinds of degraded practices.— .Rom 1: 18-31

.................................

θεότητος (theotētos) — 1 Occurrence
Colossians 2:9 N-GFS
GRK: πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς
NAS: the fullness of Deity dwells
KJV: all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
INT: fullness of the Deity bodily

At col 2:9 the apostle Paul says that in Christ “all the fullness of the divine quality [form of the·oʹtes ] dwells bodily.” Here, again, some translations read “Godhead” or “deity,” which Trinitarians interpret to mean that God personally dwells in Christ. ( KJ, NE, RS, NAB )
However, Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon defines the·oʹtes in basically the same way it does thei·oʹtes, as meaning “divinity, divine nature.” (P. 792)
The Syriac Peshitta and the Latin Vulgate render this word as “divinity.” Thus, here too, there is a solid basis for rendering the·oʹtes as referring to quality, not personality.

A consideration of the context of clearly shows that having “divinity,” or “divine nature,” does not make Christ the same as God the Almighty. In the preceding chapter, Paul says: “God saw good for all fullness to dwell in him.”
New International Version
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
English Standard Version
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
King James Bible
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Thus, all fullness dwells in Christ because it “pleased the Father” ( KJ, Dy ), because it was “by God’s own choice.” ( NE ) So the fullness of “divinity” that dwells in Christ is his as a result of a decision made by the Father.
Further showing that having such “fullness” does not make Christ the same person as Almighty God is the fact that Paul later speaks of Christ as being “seated at the right hand of God.”
col 3:1King James Bible
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Considering the immediate context of , it is noted that in verse 8, Christians are warned against being misled by those who advocate philosophy and human tradition. They are also told that “carefully concealed in [Christ] are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge,” and they are urged to “go on walking in union with him, rooted and being built up in him and being stabilized in the faith.” (Col 2:3, 6, 7 )
In addition, verses 13 to 15 explain that they are made alive through faith, being released from the Law covenant. Paul’s argument, therefore, is that Christians do not need the Law (which was removed by means of Christ) or human philosophy and tradition. They have all they need, a precious “fullness,” in Christ.— .col 2: 10-12.

BROCAB IS TRYING TO TELL US THAT THESE THREE GREEK WORDS MEANS GODHEAD, BECAUSE THAT IS HOW IT IS RENDERED IN THE KJV, BUT TO SEE THE INCONSISTENCIES OF THE KJV AND THE TEXT IT TRANSLATED(THE TEXTUS RECEPTUS CONCERNING THOSE THREE GREEK WORDS, PLS CHECK THE WEB PAGE BELOW.
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/15746/what-does-the-greek-word-θεότητος-in-colossians-29-mean

Now let's put brocabs sincerity to the test, pls note if he will respond.
he had earlier said this:


now the kjv says this in 2 peter 1:3,4
King James Bible
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

PLS BROCAB, IN YOUR REPLY TO THIS POST, PLS TELL, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE.

note: some translations us "sharers" , "participate".
expo: 1 Co 15:50-54; Php 3:10, 11; 1Pe 5:1; 2Pe 1:2-4; Re 20:6.

I understand you won't be a partaker of the Godhead, only because you don't believe what Christ had said: but for us Christians we believe in everything Christ had told us-and if the scriptures say we are part of His Godhead-then it's true.
{John 17:21} That all of them may be one, Father just as you are in Me, and I Am in You, May they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent Me.
Haven't any of you 'learned anything from this one verse?

Jozzy4:
brocab is a confused person, maybe it means they will be partakers of the Godhead

No not hatred, we are talking to you the same as we talk with other atheist who don't know Christ. We are sharing the word of God across the nations. Through the stormy weathers, the rains and snowy blitz's, we are sharing the good-news of Christ into your life's, all in the comforts of our homes.
Most people would have given up on you, many people avoid meeting with you JW's, with good reasons.
But it's us few Christians that have taken on our role, praying, someday the JW's will share that same light we have with Christ and in His glory, all man kind will bow down to Him and know that He is the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords, that every man above, on earth and under the earth will worship Him the majesty on high.
Amen....

goodnews201668:
They are always scared to mention their church! Something is wrong. They are not proud of it they are here to critize you purely out of hatred

The Father the Son and the Holy Ghost, and these 3 are one.
You do have a spirit don't you? And how many people are in you?

Jozzy4:
how does this prove three in one God ?

"Up"

goodnews201668:
Address?

This is as simple as it sounds, The Church of God is only registered for those who believe first the natural then the Spiritual, and of course you don't believe this is why you can't find it.
Have you heard this saying the blind will lead the blind.
Man didn't build the Church of God, the flesh can't register God's Church. This Church is made supernatural first the natural then the Spirit, the larges Church there is, and you say it isn't registered?

goodnews201668:
No church is registered with that name!

No-one is arguing against tithing, if you knew what you were talking about in the first place, you would read your bible, and you would see that the tithing came under the Mosaic Law, and we Christians are not part of that law, neither is the Jews any longer, and if you studied you would know not even the Jews pay tithes today.
But if people such as yourself need to argue this point, then I advise you your argument belongs to you. MizJanet.....

MizJanet:
. hope you didnt smoke weed
? because I don't know how the jargons u put up there concern me.

back to the matter, in your response to me, you said you argue against tithing, didnt you ? . and the same you still claim you don't have a doctrine per say , can't you see the contradiction in your statements ? this is where I have problem with you, cos you are double tongued and an insincere fellow

More :

you also said you attend a Church
that's open to other denominations, but yet argue against tithing which many of these denominations uphold, how can peace reign ! if u are truly open to other denominations , why attack tithing which they practised ? its either u are a liar or a confused fellow that's not meant to be taken serious

Your questionnaire wouldn't matter to you, if I said I had done all these things, you wouldn't believe me. Not because such healing's do happen, but because you yourself don't practice laying your hands on the sick. Matter of fact your Church is against such, you would rather see your love ones die. Does the blood theory ring a bell.
Plus ever since I have been on this page I have been trying to raise you JW's from the dead. But someone is not allowing this to happen, and that someone is your organisation, because you JW's are spiritually dead.
And if you are saying the JW's are bringing people to Christ, then I say their is a problem because you are bringing people not to Christ but to you.
Plus you don't follow Jesus's examples only because you don't recognise Him. You only recognise Jehovah.
So how can you say, you are bringing people to Christ, when everyone knows your organisation doesn't have anything to do with Christ, nor the Holy Spirit.

goodnews201668:
Be frank do you do all these?
How many dead ones have you raised?
Cured sick ones, like cancer patients?
No sickness around you?
If you restore sight too, that's nice.
Keep it up.
All these are not the features of true Christians if you must know.
So who do jws bring people to if not Jesus? If you say Jehovah, both are same to you. So that's not suppose to be a problem to you. Jws as a group are the best when it comes to following Jesus's examples. Since you don't know them you won't know the truth about them, all you do is spread lies and propaganda regarding them yet you call yourself a Christian. I would have tell you the things that made up true Christians but you won't appreciate it so continue in your confusion

Wow snakes shakes-you are overly picky about words aren't you.
Your job was to prove God isn't real, and Christians are not practising what the bible has described, but it seems you are only hook up this one verse {Mark 16:18} And you believe this is the one verse that will prove to you, nothing exist.
Really you haven't the slightest idea what you are saying-the blind will lead the blind.
Everyone knows Alcohol" can cause dowdiness, it can cause brain damage, it can cause death-Haven't you heard don't drink and drive.
You are reading one verse out from your bible, not understanding any meaning to it, really everyone would at least try and find some answers to this verse from some where? You should ask Questions on the net, what the scriptures mean 'before you write such rubbish on this page.
Haven't you noticed this page is full of believers, and here's little you, trying to convince us, God doesn't exist.
Handling deadly snakes isn't my way of proving to you, all anybody in this matter, I am a Christian.
In {Acts 28:1-6} After being shipwrecked and escaping to the Island of Malta, Paul was bitten by a deadly snake, and the natives thought he will die, but God miraculously intervened and Paul was not harmed.
Paul wasn't handling deadly snakes, he was biting by one.
So your theory about us handling deadly snakes, to prove we are Christians isn't what God really wants us to do, God heals, not destroys.
I read the KJ Version they will pick up serpents.
You must be reading the NIV. they will pick up snakes. Both bibles-Same meanings.

MizJanet:

@ bold, they will pick up servants, which Bible do u read ? or u need glasses ?

lolzzzzz





alcohol is deadly poison , are you okay at all ?


shakes , churchman who ask you to pick shakes . I said snakes not shakes or u need glasses ?

In your case its called the watchtower this is the church you stand by.

Jozzy4:
Church is not a building ... biblically.

and I don't see the Witnesses calling their building of worship church . do they ?


I asked the question from the general point of view e.g u hear christ apostolic Church, Redeemed Church, winners Church, e.t.c all of them is church, church , church which is why I sometimes add MINISTRY YOU ATEND to explain what I mean by church, I guess u can't comprehend that .


abi na private home fellowship u too dey do ?

We do understand the JW's don't heal people-they just watch their love ones die.

Jozzy4:
this is why atheists mock we christians, imagine you producing this kinda LIE just because you are on a faceless forum . haaa I hail u in lieing, now I see your true color. brocab, how many snakes have u pick up ? I mean LIVE SNAKE

You say you live in the world, and yet you are finding it hard to believe that not everyone is like you? Don't you know, people have pets,Cats dogs birds fish and snakes, in most places cities have Zoo's where people from all over the world visit and they carry more then enough wild animals, etc..
And your question "In counting" who knows how many?

Jozzy4:
this is why atheists mock we christians, imagine you producing this kinda LIE just because you are on a faceless forum . haaa I hail u in lieing, now I see your true color. brocab, how many snakes have u pick up ? I mean LIVE SNAKE

What is the Godhead?
Dolphinheart you don't give to heart about anything that is written either in the bible, or you don't acknowledge any of the scriptures that are explained to you in pure English.
These verses may not be found in the NWT bible, if they are I am sure, the wording wouldn't be written like it's in the King J Version.
But sadly enough it is found 3 times in the KJV
{Acts 17:29} Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like Gold or silver or stone, an Imaged formed by the art of imagination of man.
{Romans 1:20} For this invisible attributes, namely His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
{Colossians 2:9} For in Him the hole fullness of deity dwells bodily.
In each of the 3 verses a slightly different Greek word is used, but the definition of each is the same deity or "divine" nature, the Word Godhead is used to refer to God's essential nature.

dolphinheart:
you did not tell what the Godhead is?

Saturday is the Sabbath, Sunday to Friday, is usually the day's I study the word of God {Hebrews 10:24-25] I have all the fellowship I need to encourage each other with the word, look it's Saturday and I am encouraging you. And I am witnessing to you about the God, you don't even know.
And look you may worship on Sunday-the first day of the week..

Jozzy4:
haba , u sud have told me before that you attend everyday now , now the name of the place or na private home fellowship u dey do ? heb 10:24,25

Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday. {Matthew 18:20} The Lord said when two all three are gathered in His name He is in the mist of us all.
My Church is nothing like your Church, the difference is I study the Word of God, while you study the word of a God.

Jozzy4:
hub, you don't go to Church on Sunday ? when do you go to church?

besides, una still dey hide, why are u scared Tell me the name if your church ?

Firstly I don't go to Church on the Sunday, and secondly as I said I go to God's Church. maybe you didn't comprehended it clearly enough, "Listen" God's Church is the name.

Jozzy4:
Gods church kwa , okay maybe you didn't comprehend well .. he meant that which ministry or church do you attend on Sunday, the name ?

If you are going to quote the scriptures at least read the verses rightly {Mark 16:17-19} These signs will accompany those who have believed, In My name they will cast out demons, they will speak in new tongues, they will pick up servants, and if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them, and they will lay hands on the sick and they will get well. So then when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them He was taken up into heaven.
Yep, I have cast out demons, I speak in new tongues, I have pick up shakes, alcohol can be classed as a deadly poison, yes I have laid hands on the sick, and seen some instant healing. Prove me and the bible wrong?

MizJanet:


so u cure the sick and raise the dead, interesting tales, at mark 16:18 Jesus said his followers will carry snake's , why are you not practising this in ur churches ?

The treads open, come on atheist give it all you got.

MizJanet:
mtcheew, if u are serious open a thread about it and invite me.

A again, and again I am a born again Christian, My Church is God's Church.
What's the name of your Church?

goodnews201668:
Which truth, trinity?
Yes i am proud of my kingdom hall and my organization.
Are you proud of yours? Why don't you mention it? You can only jump up and down all the time mentioning the JWs, by the way there are other religious groups that know all these false doctrines. Again what's the name of your own religion?

Yeh right! Where do you start?

MizJanet:


churchman, who ask for your opinion ? with thier stance on hellfire and tithe . take it or leave it they are by far better than you.

funny enough, u Will never dare discuss this hellfire stuff with me ... I can thrash you and your pastors using ur own holy book . an atheist knows much than you . shame