₦airaland Forum

HappyPagan:
Na, going through the threads on this section, the endless arguments, sides, and multiple verses used to backup differing opinions, it's safe to assume no one knows much.

It's either that, or the ignorant are blind and can't see it or it's just above the level of many. I'm going to see this as advise to buda not to argue.

HappyPagan:
Read the OP. I mentioned them.

na. You just mentioned a few key words and threw rapture in for good measure. Its clear you haven't a clue of that which you speak. You definitely don't sound like you do.

HappyPagan:
That's the whole point of the thread...

You ask a question that would take you your entire life to get an understanding of, in a thread! Are you not asking to be misled?

Here's what someone once said:

"If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you."

But I'm certain it means nothing.

partnerbizz5:
What's really the grand purpose of our sojourn in this world?

Is it to wake up, eat, grow, go to school, work, marry, give birth, die?

The cycle continues?

In a nutshell, yes, you wake up, eat, grow, go to school, work, marry, give birth, die. Except, no cycle continues unless you want to argue that you are part of some continuing circle that has preceeded you.

If you are really lucky, you would consciously wake up and realise you might have a lot of time ahead of you, so you make the best of your time on earth worth the space and the resources you take up. But in the end, die you would after which you become worm food regardless of what you might chose to believe.

Sounds like you think you know the British so well and I don't really tend to be in the fashion to argue with believers since they've usually made up their mind what to believe and no amount of evidence can shake their faith. You see the same attitude when 'believers' argue against things like homophobia. It don't matter what evidence is presented, the the 'believer' just got to stoned them.

Time. That's what I gift you. It opens eyes in the end.

Saucyxo:
No faith at all.

That's exactly what the British do. Anything to preserve their idea of superiority.

To be part of Europe and to be part of the EU are different things. I can't you can even cite the time that Henry wanted more money and to marry his mistress so he "reformed" the Catholicism. That's nothing to do with the EU. The British cut ties with the Pope and the roman catholic church so ? The British reformation happend solely because of Henry's personal gain. He didnt care about anything else.
You're right sef. Its history repeating itself. David Cameron wanted something from the EU. They said no. He threatens to leave. They don't care. Now you're in trouble. Except, this time the consequences arent so good.
Because the pound was worth more. The British arent the only ones that dont use the euro.

If the case was that the British people didnt want rule from the EU anymore, then why cant they use their chest and tell the truth. Why lie and give false/incomplete information?

Apart from them being thieves and ruthless people what else is there to learn ?

HappyPagan:
Well... Who does?

Sounds to me like you don't know and you assume everyone knows as little, or just as much, as you do.
I wonder if you are wrong and some do know more than you.

HappyPagan:
Chill, Buda... The point of the thread is what will the 'Christians' leave behind...

So tell, what would 'Christians' leave behind?

'Christians' haven't gone anywhere yet so could you add a bit on what they brought or are bringing too, while you're at it?

JeromeBlack:
The force is strong in you, YODA.

I'd say very strong. You sure love labelling though. I think its blinding. Especially labelling without fully comprehending. It's religious too, the assumption of knowing what one doesn't. You must be one of those Muslims or Christians who believe stuff without bothering to check the evidence.

YODA will use very strong force to make you an atheist! Mark my word.

JeromeBlack:
What the hell are you on about?

That's a start JeromeBlack. You admit you do not understand buda. And the blame isn't yours, but buda's inability to communicate in English. I've found those who are patient with themselves tend to understand eventually though, so be patient with yourself. You'll understand buda, eventually.

You have no faith in Britons. You must think we have no brains and would just lap up whatever we are told. Funny.

Where did you get the idea that Britain wouldn't have voted Brexit if they knew their history? Is it not precisely because Britain knows it's history that it finds EU restrictive? Are you aware at all that Britain first brexited from Europe when Doggerland got submerged. Have you not heard of Brexit in the 16th Century? Are you aware that UK always remained outside the common currency, and why? Did you expect Britain to continue to not see that the EU is a return to rule from outside that they threw off with the Reformation, and yet tried, but now don't want no more?

Odd enough, British/Irish history is a very good source for knowledge about Britains relationship with Europe, provided one is not blinded by the one-sided dislike in the history that one reads.

Saucyxo:
The invasion of Ireland by the British. The theft of Irish provisons while they were dying. Not the oh we were trying to develop our lovely neighbour and they're so ungrateful. Not the union between Ireland and Britain.

What has the British learnt plz ? If they knew their history, they wouldn't have voted for Brexit because they didn't want other EU countries in their country. If the British didn't feed them the lies of how they were the greatest ally in WWII, they'd know the significance of the EU. Theyd have a tiny bit of appreciation for the people who have contributed into making them who they are today. They wouldn't have to google what the EU was after they voted.

Then they should use their entire chest and tell the truth. Why pretend the EU is restrictive and taking all your money. Use your chest and say you want to poison your people to make money.

JeromeBlack:
Go and sit down bro.

I will when I'm ready, but not yet.

This was you:

JeromeBlack:
Islam needs reforming just like christianity got reformed.

Unfortunately, it would appear that you can't really see how "christianity got reformed", and call "nonsense" and "rubbish" what it has reformed into.

JeromeBlack:
Sharrap. You are talking rubbish

Instead of engaging your brain, come and shut me up like some ayatollah imposing sharia would and you might just see how your are exactly what you rail so much against!

Saucyxo:
I'm not a unionist. I don't really care if Northern Ireland wants to be part of ireland again or not. I'd rather it wasnt to be honest for economical reasons.

However. Obviously the Northern Irish people would want to remain part of the UK. That's the whole point of them being there. They were brought in to Northern Ireland in order for Northern Ireland to be majority British and be under British rule. Now these historically British people are expected to vote to be part of a country they were never a part of... How very diplomatic. To make matters even more fair, the British forget to include that in their history.

I dunno. For me it's all about Intention. It's one thing to do something that is despicable and good things happen to occur consequently. It's another to disguise ones terrible actions with "collateral good".

The history of the British in Ireland is very detailed and included in British history! A biased history in this day and age just wouldn't wash!

One thing you seem to be missing is a nations ability to learn fron the errors of the past. That is what a nation that evolves does. It first learns the idea of history itself from its religion then it starts to record it's own history, revising it just as the religious history it learnt from was. The beauty is that unlike hhistory in religious books, no one fools themselves that it fell of some printing press in heaven.

Everything human beings do is done for their own selfish interest. We are not benevolent Gods.

JeromeBlack:
Twitter is a cesspool is social justice foolery.

Police only arrest for violence hate speech and racism. And the sentence is usually a fine.

Again, you cannot compare UK to those muslim countries

I can compare! I might compare and find they are similar or not similar but I must compare. It is how one broadens ones horizon and learns.

So tell, can you not see how this is the blasphemy law of an advanced people?

I don't know when you lived in UK, but if you go on the streets today and "blaspheme" against anyone's God, you will be arrested!

Saucyxo:
Hmm. And what I've seen and read, I may be completely wrong, the UK is a vile vile excuse of a country. Particularly in the case of the British and Irish history. I haven't seen much evidence of the UK doing anything that isn't for their own personal agenda.

It seems you've been reading a lot of history of UK according to the Irish the southern Catholic part as well, so I'm going to wait until you've read a lot more I guess, the northern Irish part, the ones who would rather be part of UK, to start.

As to UK having a personal agenda, no one is claiming they are benevolent, or God, but mention one person who is so saintly that their gain does not influence their actions. Even the worship of God is for personal gain.

JeromeBlack:
Sorry, homeboy

Please stop lying. You ar already know that I have lived in the UK and so, I know that you are lying. You would be arrested for disturbing the peace and not blasphemy if you went shouting on the streets lie a madman.

Also, most of the people arrested for blasphemy and apostasy were arrested for online posts on social media. They were not raving on the streets.


Furthermore, you cannot compare those 13 muslim countries to the UK.

Stop being a Muslim apologist

Kindly stop behaving like some god who has the right to be tell buda not to be the image you created in your head. Open your eyes and see reality for what it is! I'm simply not here bashing others.

So, to you, where one raves makes a difference? And you cannot see how intelligent people will couch anti-blasphemy in disturbing the peace laws?

Say half the stuff we say on here on twitter and see how long your account last before it's shut down. Say what we say on here on Twitter and the police will pay you a visit if you live in UK!

No different to anti-blasphemy laws to me.

Saucyxo:
I was just curious about how you knew about the political systems in the UK. And also the catholic/protestant conflict in Nothern Ireland. Its not very acknowledged in alot of places.

Of course. .

Well, I hope I'm suitably qualified. One just need read books to know. And preferably not just one perspective as written by the UK, but various ones from say the various European and other nations UK has ever engaged with. Just the history of UK according to Ireland and India would give a lot to think of and learn from. But the wealth in history according to UK itself is a treasure trove if the desire is to understand, and not just believe the presented facts.

JeromeBlack:
Except for at least 13 Muslim countries.

My nigga, when did become a Muslim apologist?

I'm not "nigga" and being reasonable does not imply apologetic.

Even in countries you claim practise apostasy and those against blasphemy, apostasy and blasphemy do occur, and In UK that doesn't have laws against blasphemy, you try blaspheming on the streets and see how long you last before being arrested for disturbing the peace.

Saucyxo:
Hmm. Revelation of age usually leads to assumptions about my ability to understand and be open minded.

I thought the same when you asked if I've lived in UK, but your admission of not yet being old enough to work yet makes me think your ability to see might be young especially after reading some of your responses. That said, I think you are way more mature than your age and some on here who are likely much older than you might be.

As a recent convert to Jesus, having been a studying atheist all my life, I can safely say that it is a misunderstanding that one must submit to God as if God were a prison officer. In fact, even if God were a prison officer, Jesus gives one the key of salvation from bondage so it is oxymoronic for one to feel the need to submit, a word I think you get from Islam but which becomes 'believe', in Christianity. The funny bit, however, is the "hard parts of your religion that you don't understand", which is likely 70-80% of one's religion, if not a whole lot more.

One does not need to follow all the parts of one's religion. Some parts (stone apostates, condemn gays, love your neighbour) are not followable because we now know better or are incapable of following them. A Christian would therefore invoke Grace.

Saucyxo:
I've lived in the EU all my life. Including the UK.

How old are you? Ballpark would do.

Saucyxo:
Are they mutually exclusive though. You can do both.

Religion has also glued it oo. If it wasn't for religion

You've completely missed where I said "religion is early education". When you have children, I bet they are more likely to learn to keep their pants on in honour of God, than be scared to keep them on by the fear of God.

Saucyxo:
Maybe I'm being biased. The UK is one of the countries I detest the most in this entire world. The UK doesnt love it's own people never mind its neighbours.

You are more than biased, you actually detest, and I can only say that detestation is a form of blindness that is similar to believing as both stop one from seeing and learning, for which lots of objective use of the senses is required, and which, if you understood what I've written so far, is what I'm advocating, and not the blindness that some religious people tend to adopt.

Why is UK one of the countries you detest the most in this entire world? Have you ever been or lived there? For how long? And did you learn how they got to where they are today, their history so to speak?

Couldn't find Osinbajo in this piece, bug I guess when I buy acres of land in Osun State and put cattle on it I suddenly will stop being an Osunian and become a Fulani herdsperson instead.

But tok-tok pesin to di President, Femi Adesina, tell BBC say, e dey on record wia some state govnors bin agree say to build ranch na way out to sort di crisis between farmers and herders for di kontri.

"Di National Economic Council set up committee ontop dat mata wey visit some states for di kontri wey dem agree say di way out of di crisis between farmers and herdsmen na to set up ranches so dis wan na surprise to me."

"Some govnors dey on record wey dem say dis na di way so if dem dey kick against am now wetin come be di solution dem dey provide?" na wetin Adesina tok.

Wen BBC ask say pipo dey say di Ruga settlement go collect land from pipo hand Adesina reply say: "Anybody wey dey tok dat wan dey tok am out of hatred and dat pesin suppose purge imsef from hatred against pipo of oda ethnic tins.

Saucyxo:
Lol. I got adequate sex education, handsomeness and intelligence wont make me off pant . Much to Emp.iree's despair

See! Education is glue to your pant.

JeromeBlack:
False comparison.

No Christian country or Jewish country practices such today. Most western countries abolished apostasy and blasphemy laws almost a hundred years ago

Most Muslims don't practise it neither!

Saucyxo:
Budaatum. Do you live or have you lived in the UK ?

You asking for my credentials? Born and lived in UK ⅔ of my life.

You?

"I'm trying to describe my point to you in the most eloquent manner I can but its hard so I'll say it the best way I know how." Me too. So lets try hard to understand what we are both imperfectly saying.

Saucyxo:
I dont agree. I think theres a difference between belief and practice of religion. In the context of the OP then practice is what would cause someone to be intolerant to others religion. I guess I meant most Christians in the UK are non practicing. Non practicing in the way that it doesnt affect their day to day at all. In the slightest. It wasnt only scientific revolution that suppressed religion in Europe. It had more to do with discrimination from the Church.

There is "a difference between belief and practice of religion", since one can believe a thing and practise the doctrine therein or not, practise being what I accuse UK of. UK takes care of it's citizens (free healthcare, money to feed) according to the doctrine that teaches that one should love one another. UK also loves it's neighbours as is seen by the amount it spends on foreign aid. Both these practises are an advanced form of what is taught in the Gospels - love one another and your neighbours - so I would say instead of UK 'believing' what they should practise, they 'know' what to practise and practise it specifically in their day to day life.

And it was indeed the scientific revolution (a revolution that brought in the use of the senses and not what was religiously handed down in ancient texts by people who had no glasses), that has suppressed the take up of religion. People cannot go on believing for long that which opposes their senses. Eventually they must concede to what their senses perceive. And there is no doubt that we see a lot better than the ancients did.

Saucyxo:
I don't agree. Lol sorry. I think religion is a way of life. A doctrine that dictates ones belief and purpose in life.

"Dictate", at it's early stage (up to 16th century in Europe, and after Mohammed in the Arab world), but you'd know how humans react to 'dictators'. God dictated to Adam and Eve but they went ahead and revolted.

In an advanced age, as in, long after the old ways of religion, which is the dictating of beliefs, have died off and the age of reason kicks in, people don't accept being dictated to because they now understand they have senses of their own and the right to dictate is in themselves if they use their senses.

Saucyxo:
Hmm. I'm trying to describe my point to you in the most eloquent manner I can but its hard so I'll say it the best way I know how. Forgive me if it sounds a little simplistic. I agree theres an overlap between overly religious countries and lack of education and poverty. But I dont think correlation indicates causation in this context. Most of europe were still very under practicing religious doctrines when they did the not so religious things they needed to do in order to advance. I dont see any religious doctrines that would really pull a nation backwards if used correctly.

Religion was simply how education was done in the past with its students being told to believe. Education today has evolved into teaching the abilities to understand and reason as opposed to 'believe', so I'd call them points on the same scale with one evolving into the other, and not "correlation" or "causation". The fact does remain that societies that advocate the individual use of the senses prospers more than one which just uncritically accepts that which they are told by a few ancient prophets.

Do note that it is my view that Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus, along with numerous others through the ages are teachers that advocated the use of the senses. It is we who contraditorily argue that we must believe.

Saucyxo:
I dont understand what you mean by "It is the reason that church dwindles and schools proliferate both in number and in the quality of the education that they deliver." Did the dwindling of churches have anything to do with the proliferation of schools ? The dwindling of churches happened because people stopped going to churches and didn't agree with the practices of the church. The proliferation of schools, which still teach religion in a positive manner, happened because people wanted to be educated. I don't see what one has to do with the other.

The dwindling of Church happened because people saw and adopted a superior alternative which is education and so they stopped going to Church and went to school instead. In UK, Church saw this and evolved into schools but still taught religion (belief) until the scientific era took over and the curriculum changed accordingly. UK still has Church (and other religion) schools but you can't be teaching the curriculum according to God without Ofsted sanctioning you.

Nigeria is tending towards the same by eventually understanding that church has always been a driver to increase knowledge and understanding so more churches build schools. They still teach God done it in six days, but eyes are being opened to see that myth.

Saucyxo:
Lol. That's a bit rude. Lol are you saying religious people are in pits and athiests are on hills . Do you mind giving me an example of what words that we religious people have been stuck on ? I'm just curious.

Religion does not just get stuck on words, but also on phrases. And it gets stuck through its beliefs which by their nature imply knowing already when the opposite is exactly the case.

Religion (the ancient way of educating) gives the false confidence of knowledge. Education (the modern form of religion, as advocated by the light shiners), puts a foundation underneath those beliefs where there is one, and weeds out that which is not knowledge.

The evidence suggests that both the religious and the atheists are in pits with neither having a comprehension of things. I would claim the pit the atheist is in is deeper only because the atheist knows there is a pit but not that they themselves are in it, while the religious think they are on the hill when they are not. But the depth of the pit matters not in the whole scheme of things since we all deceive ourselves, each thinking the little we know is the whole truth when the truth is neither even sees. It takes an acceptance of ones limitation and ignorance to accept that one knows so little, but thread after thread you'd see the ego of ignorance claiming knowledge that it lacks.

I'll borrow from the Bible to illustrate.

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

A lot of people believe the above to be true, but in which way is it true? Would a better understanding not make it truer? In UK, it is known that if they learn about the natural world (the earth, fish, sea etc), and understand how to manipulate it to their advantage (rule and subdue it), they will have more resources to live longer and grow (be blessed), so instead of worshipping God with tithes and prayers, they worship by seeking and learning to understand the knowledge of the entire universe and all that is therein (Kingdom of God ), wealth that they store where moths can't get at it and are blessed because of their seeking.

Now, look at my country Nigeria which many would claim 'worships' God and tell me if we are blessed.

Saucyxo:
I strongly disagree. In theory the UK may seem like a religious country but it is not practised in public or in private.

Depends on what you are measuring with. Christianity in UK has evolved to the point that you do not need to see it on a persons shoulder nor is it a sort that involves "belief" as religion in Nigeria tends to. The scientific revolution cured Europe of that disease.

Religion is simply an ancient form of education that is now found predominantly in nations that have not yet learned the fundamentals of civilisation which is embodied in the commandments. UK has learnt this and advanced past the commandments to "love thy neighbour" and galantly now march toward Logos (Jesus), and Wisdom (God). It is the reason that church dwindles and schools proliferate both in number and in the quality of the education that they deliver.

But as is said, those in pits cannot see the view from hills. They look at words used by ancients to explain what those ancients dimly understood and get stuck on meanings those ancient had for those words instead of allowing meaning to evolve into present day meaning.

You haven't got a clue what rapture or even Christ is so I wonder what you are expecting. There is a reason why it is written, [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A33&version=KJV]Seek[/url] ye first the Kingdom of God, and why you are given a clue where to look, but I bet none of them have anything to do with the Rapture you expect.

JeromeBlack:
Interesting question. Only a select few know who I really am.

I asked because the persecution you speak of atheists (and homosexuals, for that matter), going through tends to start in the home. Most parents would be distressed if their child claims to be either of the above, and in some cases, would ostracize their kids for it. So, perhaps instead of asking why Muslims mistreat atheists, one should ask why religious parents mistreat their atheist children. It is after all parents who set the religious agendas of societies.

theenchanter:
eye opening in what sense?

Mauritius was one big farm run on African slaves until slavery was abolished and wages were paid but conditions never changed for the former slaves who were now freed so they refused to work for their white masters who went to China to hire labour but could only find a few so they brought labour in from India. When the whites left, they sold up to the Chinese and Indians. The latter, being the majority, now rule Mauritius while the Chinese are some of the wealthiest people there. The black people though tend to operate on the margins of society as fishermen and traders and are amongst the poorest in Mauritius.

I've never been to Seychelles, but I would not be surprised if the black people there are the poorest.

Saucyxo:
The UK is far more tolerant because the UK is not a religious country.

UK is a religious country but practised privately. When Queen Victoria was asked in the 19^th century if she believed the communion wine and bread really turns to the body and blood of Christ, she literally told people to mind their own goddamn business and not concern themselves with her private relationship with God. Tony Blair mentioned his faith and was ridiculed for it. With 27 Bishops of the Church of England holding permanent seats in the House of Lords, and the Queen being the Defender of the Faith, one could argue that UK is a Christian country, though other faiths have representation too and the future monarch has said he'd defend Faiths and not just "the faith". Personally, I look at road linings and see scripture. It does indeed say "Thou shalt not", a law that is very religiously obeyed.

UK is learning religious tolerance but not everyone has. Boris Johnson, who is vying to become the next Prime Minister is being called religious intolerant and a racist for calling women wearing the burqa “letter boxes” and “bank robbers”. Corbyn is under pressure to further sanction Chris Williamson MP for Derby North for antisemitism. And both leading parties are being accused of Islamaphobia and Jewishphobia. You've also got Catholic/Protestant, albeit dying off conflicts, in Scotland and Ireland, which is being eradicated through education. And if you asked Jews and Muslims in UK they would tell you they are persecuted, though, not as much as when the entire Jewish community of York was massacred “without any scruple of Christian conscientiousness”.

Ignorance. That's what makes some nations persecute minorities, be they religious minority, sexual minority, race, etc, and education is its solution, but some religions have an aversion to knowledge and education. The Abrahamic religions psychologically impose this ignorance by making people believe that they would die if they learn and the teacher is a deceptive serpent, when the truth is, knowing is what actually extends life. But you try teaching that to people who have been programmed to believe that Methuselah lived an impossible 900+ years!

Therein is the hope. People just need light shone on their ignorance, but the light shiners need to fully understand what they are up against and know how to shine the light. It's a funny odd world though that light shiners tend not to appreciate the light shiners who went before them as a template they can learn from. Thankfully, God uses all to confound fools.

JeromeBlack:
As an atheist, I would be less active if my rights were respected.
It is your muslims and Christians that force us atheists to be activists. When muslims call us satanism, pigs, perverts and deny us basic human rights, what are we to do?

Ignorant people usually see atheists as arrogant. Atheists are no where as arrogant as religious people.

I wonder if you've told your family and close friends that you are an atheist. If you did, and if they are religious, could you tell us if they don't think you are going to hell, and forced you to be an activist? Did they just accept you were an atheist.

FarahAideed:
This is exactly what he is saying !!!! You are in deep trouble somebody is trying to help you out but because of Low IQ you pretend not to be concerned ..

How can a person heavily involved in creating a problem be trusted to clear up the problem they caused?