₦airaland Forum

JackBizzle:
You missed the point.

You claimed that a human being's purpose is to survive.

That can easily be negated by cloning a human being for organ spare parts. The cloned human's purpose was not to survive. The cloned human was never naturally even meant to exist.

You miss your own point in failing to see your "cloning of a human being for organ spare parts" as a part of your very own human purpose of survival by making it sound like the clone cloned itself because it has the purpose of giving a fuq about you! Lol!

JackBizzle:
And do other planets go around the sun at the same elevation and period as the earth? What about a planet like Neptune that is very far away from the sun?

Obviously not, a fact we can tell by measuring the time that other planets do take.

The fact we use a human clock that measure in seconds and minutes and hours and days and months and years is simply due to the earth we measure from. If we were measuring from a different planet a day will have a different number of hours or what ever we choose to call the periods we observe.

JackBizzle:
Are you a christian deist?

Or is your Jedi master nature coming out again? Speaking in riddles like Yoda?

If you do not understand what I say and want to understand, ask me to clarify instead of assuming I must be this or that please.

I am buda, and my nature is to be buda. I do not fit in boxes Jack.

JackBizzle:
Time does not exist.

Does time have a physical essence?

What is time exactly?

We on earth use the movements of the sun and moon to calculate time.

Have you considered how meaningless this is, especially if one were on a planet with no moons? Even just being on another planet would make one see how abstract time is.

You will make me get angry easily, as Shadeyinka would tell you, if you continue with this line of argument instead of informing yourself, because even other planets in our solar system periodically go around the sun, as do planets in all solar systems.

JackBizzle:
That is the point! We cannot comprehend the universe.

Are you preaching your beliefs to me or philosophising in order to learn, Jack?

There was a time God built the heaven and the earth in six days but we recently landed a probe on very far away Mars, so evidence suggests that we can at least try to comprehend instead of nihilistically giving up and claiming it is purposeless or meaningless or beyond you!

If Eve thought the way you suggest, humans will still be naked and enslaved in Eden!

JackBizzle:
But time does not exist. What is time exactly? The space between two events? Is that space physical or abstract?

But going back to the clock. We build clocks to measure time. However, from the clock's perspective, its function is meaningless- it has no use for time that it measures.


If a tree falls in the forest and no one observes it, it still makes noise.

The weakness in the clock's analogy is that it has a creator (humans) and we know the purpose of its creation (to tell time)

We as humans do not know if we have a creator and we do not know the why

No one cares about the perspective of a clock, Jack. Fact is, time, the space between two events that we built the clock to objectively measure, obviously does exist or the clock we built would measure nothing.

This is basic philosophy that everyone should know before contemplating the advance subject of this thread, and if you haven't already I strongly suggest you inform yourself

Here will be a good enough place to begin..

JackBizzle:
It sounds like a very good statement but it becomes meaningless when you consider the universe as a system and see that it has no beneficiary.

Its either you have supergood eyes or you talk crap!

How did puny human you see that a universe that began billions of years ago has no purpose that might be billions of years in the future from now?

JackBizzle:
What is the point of telling the time if the clock itself has no use for it? And does time even exist?

You are mixing up time and clock as if they are the same thing, which they are not. Its the argument posed when we ask if a tree makes a noise when it falls in the forest unobserved.

Clocks do not have a use for time Jack, clocks just measure the existence of time that naturally exist. Whether you tell time with a human clock, time passes regardless. The moon will go round the earth and the earth around the sun whether you measure its course with a clock or not.

You would not claim gravity does not exist just because you have not built an instrument to measure it!

JackBizzle:
.....and that's how you became a jedi master. Yodatuum.

I love you too Jack, lol.

JackBizzle:
Sorry, what you are asking me is to become some pluralistic spiritualist hippie?

"Pluralistic spiritualist hippie"? There you go again building walls of boxes. Is buda a jedi master. Yodatuum pluralistic spiritualist hippie, or is it not the truth that you see buda that way?

Why can't you just be JackBizzle, just like buda is simply budaatum despite all the boxes many wish to entrap buda inside? Why the labels?

JackBizzle:
I am open to learn but seeing as I am not a child with a tabula rasa brain, I have to put my beliefs (foundations) forward and see how they cope...

Become a born again child with a tabula rasa brain Jack, if you are really willing to learn, instead of a tabula fulla crap beliefs!

Its hard, I know. As hard as threading a camel through a needle's eye so to speak, but it is not impossible.

shadeyinka:
I agree perfectly!

A foundermental question then should be who/what is benefiting from this system?

It will be an immense exercise to wonder, deserving of a separate thread I think, though I can see it culminating in God as opposed to the right answer which is, we do not have a clue, simply due to our arrogance of assuming knowledge while ignorant.

My Lordreed proposes this as our ignorance but many can't accept it, hence God.

JackBizzle:
What about a cloned human being?

What about human beings cloned for organ spare parts?

You didnt see that coming eh?

What about a car? Or just the spare parts?

Did you see that coming?

JackBizzle:
What you are describing is the ecosystem that shows how different organisms cohabit and benefit from each other in the system.

A system of which humans are just a part.

JackBizzle:
If we human beings lived in the ocean and could breathe underwater, would you be considering the purpose of a plant?

Do whales and fish, the equivalent of humans in the sea, not consider the equivalent of the purpose of plants in their environment?

JackBizzle:
It is simply natural evolution, plants and animals adapt to the environment around them.

They do not only adapt, Jack, they influence the environment around them too with the system working as a loop.

IamPlato:
so You Are Saying The Purpose Of Man Is To survive.

Essentially, yes. As soon as one is conceived the purpose begins or life ceases.

Note, life. Humans are the "beneficiary of a system", as Shadeyinka called it, and are a product of the strife for survival that began from a single cell. One fails to see this when one isolates the parts from the whole.

shadeyinka:
If there is no beneficiary of a system, such system will be purposeless!

Correct.

You can not have a system, which is "a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network complex whole" without beneficiary.

The statement alone is obviously oxymoronic.

JackBizzle:
I am trying to balance my beliefs.

I am an atheist, humanist and a philosopher.

I might seem confused to you but I am actually streamlining my beliefs and trying to see how others critique it.

Yes you are confused. And its not some disease or illness, but the normal state of human development while they find a purpose. Introduce yourself to [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs?wprov=sfla1]Maslow[/url] and perhaps you'd get what I mean.

I am asking you to abandon your beliefs and become as a child with an open mind and wonder, instead of allowing beliefs to blind you. It is the ignorant and unwilling to learn, who believe the crap in their own heads.

Martian:
Thanks for the vote of confidence but I know nothing.

It is precisely for this reason that I hold you in high regard, Martian, even when we disagree.

Unlike earthlings who believe they know, you are willing to remain open minded like a child who is willing to continously learn instead of becoming a believer who 'knows' all.

Just see how you continously add to our knowledge and you would understand how highly buda regards your Martian mind.

Kayberg:
Highlighted means both physical and spiritual sword.
Understanding the Bible is crucial.

The Bible is very clear that when a physical sword is understood you have wasted your money because it is not to be used.

A Spiritual sword would be like the one Jesus used when he was tempted by satan on the mountain. Another way of referring to it is, "It is written", which cuts deep when wielded by those who know how to use it. Even Angels will come and wield swords on your behalf.

lekki1444:
you are correct the men are worse. i just seem to be focusing on the women here seeing as i am a man.

Don't make it a woman problem when you know its more universal than that. You know how people here are, especially the men, criticising women for what they themselve do more.

I find Nigerians in general feel entitled. We pray to God for manna from heaven and pray to each other too, except with each other and unlike God, one must answer your prayer!

I'd get on my bike in the morning and go to my farm and no one will see me going. But when I'm returning with my bike full of food they all see and greet me and ask me what I brought back for them as if na dem send me.

Me, I'm bad. I can go in my kitchen and cook my food that I laboured for on my farm and sit at my table and eat it in front of you while your lazy ass looks on and I give you none. Next time, if you want to eat my food, come to my farm and grow it with me and you will most certainly not starve.

As far as I am concerned, you are not even entitled to me feeling guilty just because you are lazy and therefore starving! You are definitely not entitled to the fruit of my labours because I am most definitely not your slave!

Obviously, I do not mean you, op. Just saying. And I too give like you do.

He prayed! Some people opened foodbank to help the needy and the poor but Apostle Suleman Johnson prayed and some donated to him a jet!

Condemn him if you may, but please condemn more those selfish unthinking idiots amongst us who walked past the foodbank and donated their money to him. I'm sure they bought their salvation!

lekki1444:
so the question is am i tripping or are these women entitled ?

So, all this story for simple question?

Well you mentioned two women in your story above, and I'll assume there might be many more and you just needed two to be brief or you would not jump from two to "Nigerian women" because I hope you are smarter than that.

Do know that if they were entitled you would have given them what they asked you for, but because they are obviously not entitled you refused. I bet if you go giving men things in shops and spars they'd be the one's begging for more, but do let us know after you tried it please.

Never used one, sorry.

I use a Blackberry Motion. Battery lasts forever and its a vkb. It's due an upgrade but I can't seem able to move on from it till BlackBerry make their next vkb but they stupidly want to make a pkb phone in the 21st century!

Martian:

Reckoned your advanced refined mind would be a healthy contribution to this topic. I love your Martian perspective.

abbey621:
Yes o broda, make we grab the popcorn, Trump goes to jail or not, it does not add to my retirement income

My investment is greater than your's it would seem, though I am not American.

While trump is very unlikely to go to jail, just him not influencing the next US election his way is jail enough for me. I even pray the Republicans chose him as their presidential nominee so they can understand how deplorable most decent Americans see him when he woefully loses which I guarantee he will, though I have my fear he might win against Kamala.

4 years is a short time coming but a long time to change minds, I'm hoping. We will live to see

shadeyinka:
You have spoken some big English....

I see them as the tool the devil would use to confuse, lol, especially when used with little knowledge. The fact that it is a belief is enough to show its poverty.

Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13152958_notable02547_jpeg2a552f1e40eee3947fd578e6e174c42e

HellVictorinho please come see buda quoting Nietzsche, and Martian disbelieve!

Yes, I am completely ignorant about you and know nothing about you, but I am certain trump will get nowhere near 70million if the election were rerun today. Or did you not hear even Mitch McConnell and all those magats he led to riot and abandoned who are now condemning him? Even the Gop is split against trumpism such that he'd likely struggle in the primaries!

Anyway, we are merely pitting opinions against each other and one thing I do know about you is you are not overdosed on kraken like some that I've seen over the years, so let us wait till we have facts. Till then, popcorn.

abbey621:
Clearly you don't know anything about me, I voted for Biden and voted for Obama before Trump. What you also don't undertsand is that the fringe elements inside the USA are not going anywhere, do you understand what it means for over 70 million people to vote for someone, the only way to ensure Trump does not remain relevant is to throw him in jail and even that might make him a matyr and start a revolution. Do you remember Obama's first term, do you remember how much hate he got? Trump was not in the picture then so let's not make it seem like Trump brought the hatred into the country. America has been deeply divided since the 1990s, from the days of Clinton and Gingrich, only those who are serious about U.S politics and history will understand what is going on.

It is easy to take the easy way out and blame it all on Trump but there are some seriously angry people in this country from both sides and things will only get worse. To enlighten you a little bit on the issue, think of Trayvon Martin, the Baltimore riot, the man who flew a plane inside the IRS building, were these things caused by Trump? People don't like to hear the truth, Trump biggest crime is bring too blunt and politically incorrect. Any president that pushes the A merica first agenda will upset the global world order and this is an unforgivable sin. My guy 4 years is not too far away, I'll remind you when the time comes and all these politicians are either begging trump not to contest or they are actively seeking his support. U.S politics is funny that way

JackBizzle:
I like clarity and a sense of direction. This is why those little boxes help.
Fine-tuning for the soul.

And you chose atheism, the art of disbelieving and seeking so as to know? You really are confused!

If you "like clarity and a sense of direction" and "Fine-tuning for the soul", then abandon the freedom of atheistically using the immense power of your mind to seek understanding and join a religious box and be directed within it, because you will not get far trying to eat your cake and have it!

JackBizzle:
Correction, no one is born with a purpose.

It seems you are saying that survival is a purpose- which it is not. It is just a function of being a living thing.

That "just a function of being a living thing" is precisely the purpose of being, Jack, and a human being without purpose will not survive and is dead!

I humbly invite Shadeyinka to come and explain to you how one could even be dead though living a purposeless life. You will need to be patient to see beyond his religionese to understand what he means though. And perhaps kkins25 could engage you with Being and Time that we both struggle with.

JackBizzle:
I like clarity and a sense of direction. This is why those little boxes help.
Fine-tuning for the soul.

These labels are good in directing the flow of conversation. They encourage a robust discussion on complex subjects like morality.

Yes! I agree. See my post below that I posted before seeing this.

The boxes are aids, like a boat used to cross a river, but once across you must abandon the boat instead of carrying it across the land and slowing yourself down.

As for morality. That is one river you must have crossed at age 2, or 4 if you are slow, unless you have failed like most to eat of the fruit of the tree of morality and learnt the difference between good and evil. But then, you did say you were an atheist, so I ask.

Are you an atheist to the Bible, as in one who rightfully disbelieves it, but unfortunately fails to seek understanding of what is written therein?

IamPlato:
every man is born empty with no purpose or meaning and you can choose to stay that way till you become dust again.

Born empty, is not the same as "with no purpose" and it is very not true that one is born empty or with no purpose, unless you wish to disregard the umbilical cord!

As soon as one is born, one gasps for air for a purpose, which is to breath so as to live. Would you suggest that is not purpose enough?

Soon after, you yell out, albeit not knowing why, but as soon as a tit is stuck in your mouth, you suck with purpose to fill your belly to nourish yourself. Or is that not purpose enough?

Yes indeed one may "choose to stay that way" and not take breath or tit, IamPlato, but the proper phrase to describe those who "make that choice" - though none ever do but have it fostered on them - are stillborns or those that die soon after birth.

Most of us though, have purposefully chosen to live and give meaning to our existence, which is what Jackbizzle is seeking to do here by defining himself so as to better understand his purpose. And as he grows, so will his box until he breaks the sides down and becomes a free person.

Okay, I've read it. I think you feel the need to define yourself, as in, find a neat little box you can fit yourself in so you can say you are this or you are that. And I ask, why? Why would you feel the need to define yourself by narrow meaning words? Do you like living in a box, Jackbizzle? Must you imprison yourself?

Perhaps the followings might help you get what I mean:

https://www.nairaland.com/5091184/get-thread-now#76880915

https://www.nairaland.com/5256122/secular-researchers-agree-worldviews-control/1#79571767

https://www.nairaland.com/5231374/godhumans-ai/1#79513534


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM8JhvfoqdA

JackBizzle:
During my many years of diving into philosophy as an atheist/humanist, I came to a conclusion which many of my fellow atheists have also arrived at- life has no meaning or purpose.

I am very sorry that I stopped right there. I was an atheist from birth and my life had meaning so I can't say I shared your opinion that atheists arrive at the conclussion you arrived at!

As a humanist alone, your life ought to have plenty of meaning unless you have not got a clue what humanism is about. I mean, do you not know humanism means "Love humans", and what greater purpose can a human being have than the expression of love for their fellow human being so you get up daily with the sole purpose of diminishing the sufferings of your fellow humans?

Now, let me patiently go and read the rest of what you wrote to find out if you were only an atheist to the Bible, as in one who rightfully disbelieved it, but unfortunately failed to seek understanding of what is written therein.