₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
Exactly the point. If Adam and Eve were to die on the day they eat from the tree, then we expect them to die within 24hours. But instead of dyiñg Physically, God gave them clothings before sending them out of the garden. This only make sense if the DEATH being spoken of is not the Physical death but another kind of death.

So, it's not that someone lied that they would surely die when they surely lived another 800 or so years, but that you must change the definition of death to "another kind of death" to make the lie the truth?

Okay Shadeyinka. If that is how you want to see it. Remind me never to sign a contract with you please and know that I can not tell myself such a lie and convince myself to believe it, and if I tell such a lie to people who know how to use the brain in their head I will lose a lot of respect from them and for myself.

shadeyinka:
I think you are the one trying not to see the obvious
1. God said, " on the day you eat of the tree, you shall die". God did not say, "you will start dying from the day you eat of the tree" "

And to you, this means they will live like 800 years afterwards and die aged 930?

You will forgive me. Perhaps its because English is my first language and I do not understand it like you seem to. I just do not see it your way. When I read "on the day you eat of the tree, you shall die", I'd expect them to die that day, or at least the day after, or that week, or even the same year and not like 800 years afterwards!

If you borrowed money from me and say you will pay back "on the day", I will report you to EFCC if you make me wait 800 days not to talk of 800 weeks or months or years, but that's just me. Perhaps try it on the Martian who claims years can mean months. I am sure he'd appreciate your "spiritual" understanding

shadeyinka:
2. God cannot lie! If God says something will happen on the day they eat of the tree, so it will be.

Well, we are not talking about God now, are we, but what we read as written in the Holy Bible, which is very definitely not God unless you want to claim it is now okay to make an image of God out of a book and be bowing down to it. Last time I checked though, God is kind of jealous of such doings. Or has God's changed minds? Because I did not get that memo. Perhaps send me the copy you got.

HellVictorinho:
Really?
You will approach Boko Haram?
Do you actually think the federal government wants Boko Haram to end?

With you and your rap lyrics? Yes, we can approach them together. Send me the lyrics if you want my pre-production input. My service to you is free.

And yes, Federal Givernment want Boko Haram to end, if just so they can tax the area boko haram have overrun and stop us not electing them because they can not keep us safe.

HellVictorinho:
But the effect of my lyrics will be greater than the effect of world war 1 and 2 on someone's mind!

I believe you Hell. I will join your lyrics to my books. One day we will be empowered to go and fight boko haram together and we will overcome them with knowledge. Insha Allah.

shadeyinka:
I have only said that Adam and Eve indeed died "spiritually" on the day they eat of the tree. Physical death came much later.

We are going to have to disagree on this because there is no way I can convince myself that Adam and Eve that went on to know each other and bear children and live another 800 or so years, died any sort of death after eating the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. I mean, just look at the text. It even says how long he lived after eating the fruit!

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13166717_notable02589_jpeg7a7d2dc93c446a71ea8c2922522e8a7c

In order to convince myself of such a thing I would need to refuse to accept what I see with my eyes and read with my mind and do wuruwuru to an answer to lie to myself to accept a predetermined belief that I want to believe and my God given brain just does not work that way. Sorry.

Meanwhile, the APC leader prayed that the Almighty Allah, who gave the country huge potentials for it to be recognised globally, would deliver it from its crisis.

This bothers me. Imagine if Mohammed and Jesus and Moses were praying instead of fulfilling their missions.

Instead of us electing a leader who prays to Allah God, I hope we consider electing someone whom the God has already decided to use and sent on a clear mission.

shadeyinka:
I told you that the scriptures speak of three kinds of deaths

Even if God took those you mentioned, the fact of the matter is that they are not on this earth, while Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden alive to till the earth for another 800 or so years "And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died".

Seriously, unless you are asking me to do religion with you, which I do not really do, or you want to brainwash me into believing what you seem to believe, that the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil killed Adam and Eve, I really can not see what we are arguing here.

I promise you that if I was in the Garden, that Fruit will be the only food for me because I would rather find out or die than be a believing ignorant slave.

I am buda. I understand if my way is not your way.

Sixfeetbelle:
Are you sure they're seeing how silly he's being? Please, forget story. Nothing has worked. Na im type full for here

He carried himself over from here. Lol.

Trust me, there are more sensible people observing than commenting.

Sixfeetbelle:
I've learnt, from my brief stay on this forum, to not argue anything gender related with this particular Op. He's stubbonly partial and set in his way and beliefs.

Kudos to you and Ima. Can never be me

Oh, I am not arguing with the op. Just using him as a soundboard so others may see how silly he is being. And I must say, you make me think it has worked.

Martian:
When you look up the stuff I told you to look up, you will stop being bumptiously ignorant. Sayonara

You wish to think I need you to tell me to look up what I am well versed in when you can't even understand what is in front of your eyes.

Yes Martian, Sayanora. Until you find it in you to quote me again only to find you know very little about Earth and the book you deride but never read.

shadeyinka:
unclothedness is a figurative term to indicate loss of glory. It's exactly how a once powerful emperor will feel immediately he is dethroned. He realizes that he is as vulnerable as the ordinary man on the street. He is naked!

Without the shared Glory of God, man is naked and vulnerable !

The text says "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked". So did they lack glory all along and just did not know it until their eyes opened?

shadeyinka:
I didn't say that. I meant satan will rather possess a man rather than a dumb book. The author of a book is human, so he could be useful in Satan's hands!

Useful to corrupt the book so the readers are confused?

shadeyinka:
Physical Death:
Everyone except Enoch, Melchizedek and Elijah died a physical death. Animals die physical deaths

You will need to find it in you to forgive me please, but if these people you mention ever lived they are very dead now, as are Adam and Eve, like 800 years after they ate the fruit. But not only did they not die immediately after they ate the fruit, they went on to have quite a few children, and grandchildren too, so you'd have a hard job convincing me that they surely died on the day that they ate the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil as the owner of the Garden obviously lied that they would.

Martian:
If you had looked up European wars of religion you would have seen the refutation of your “unifying relgion”. Europeans fought each other before and after the “unifying” religion.

Guess you do not know how ununified Europe was and do not know how unified Europe is today, or that Rome was not built in a day. Do you even know ordinary Britain had 7 ununified kingdoms at one time until Christianity unified them?

Martian:
The warring gods were possibly mortals whose struggles morphed to stuff of mythology. Look up the Parian Chronicles as see mention of the dispute between Mars and Neptune who appear to be mortal men.

Do not make me insult you Martian! If you are not aware that the planets Mars and Neptune were anthropomorphized the same way Yorubas did with Ogun the God of Iron just say so and we can educate you!

Martian:
Lol. I may be braindead but who else would disseminate bibles and Qurans if not Christians and muslims? Yes, superstitions is what they spread. They contain wisdom too, but a broken clock is right at least two times a day.

People who want to open your eyes, Martian. And you are not supposed to stupidly believe the silly superstitions in them but dispute that which is not true so that you may learn.

Martian:
English “Relied heavily” on the bible is part of the natural progression of the language.

So, English is a natural progression for a Yoruba person? How about a Chinese person, and a Spaniard? Is English their natural progression too?

Martian:
You are not a doubter. You are a believer who “understands”. C’mon son, quote the Buddha and illuminate the people.

And yet I told you this:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13152958_notable02547_jpeg2a552f1e40eee3947fd578e6e174c42e

Which clearly states Buddha at the bottom, yet you call me a believer and ask me to quote Buddha that seems to have completely gone straight over your head!

You will forgive me, but if you struggle this much with Christianity I do not think you can possibly grasp the complexity of Buddhism.

Martian:
The subjugation bit rubbed you a wrong way. lmao

No, Martian. It did not rub me "a wrong way". I am just amused that you blame your subjugation on a book you do not understand.

Martian:
Whatever dude. The bible is a collection of mythology, legend, folklore, and some history. So, there's nothing farfetched about Adam, Eve, and Methuselah being based on real people. A person named Shango existing doesn't mean he turned into a god.

I guess if there's nothing far fetched about Adam, Eve, and Methuselah being based on real people then there's should be nothing far fetched about them living for almost 1000 years too, no? And a God created the heaven and the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th too and Jesus sits on God's right side judging the living and the dead?

Lol, Martian. You astound me.

shadeyinka:
I beg to disagree!
God said, "on the day you eat of the tree, you shall die".
It seems man was created with vocabulary set and the ability to speak and comprehend language or else the question that Adam should ask is "what is Death?"

Secondly, how did Adam know that he is flesh and bones? I assume he must be vegetarian before the fall.

You are indeed correct that they must have known something, but they surely did not know enough to realise they were naked it seems, until the ate the fruit, and surely did not die after they ate it which kind of makes whoever told them not to, a liar.

In fact, their eyes opened instead, and according to Eve, she gained Wisdom, which one would associate with Gods, so would you not say the serpent told at least half of the truth if not all?

shadeyinka:
Satan would rather enter a man's mind to distort his knowledge than to distort a book.

Really? So Satan can not have entered into the minds of those who wrote the book? Interesting.

Have you heard of any other kind of death in the scriptures such as
-Spiritual Death and
-Second death?

Educate me. Show me people in Scripture who died these deaths you mention so I can understand how dead they died.

ono:
If you think I don't have friends who are "moderates", you are living in La La land.

Have you not heard of the white racist who's best friend is black? It was discussed on here a while ago, you must have missed it.

This has nothing to do with your friends, ono, but about how your mind seems to work.

Martian:
I don't care if I'm right about the lunar months being years. That's why I said food for thought. You're the one with a vested interest in being right about it. Of course a person named Methuselah could have lived. There's nothing farfetched about that.
So, how long did Methuselah live in your opinion. 969 years or 81 years?

There is a clear difference between being right about the text and being right about an interpretation or understanding of the text but you seem to be unaware of the distinction. If we can make up the text as we like, then what exactly is the basis of discussion here, Martian?

I do not have an opinion about the length of Methuselah's life because I can clearly read what it written in the text. But if you care to know, I do not think anyone called Methuselah lived at all, or Adam and Eve for that matter, as what I read about them is in the realm of mythology, which I would have thought would be clear to you by now but seems obviously not clear to you at all.

Perhaps you need to stop with your assuming false opinions about buda and engage with what is before you, Martian. Just a suggestion.


Ref: https://www.nairaland.com/6173410/why-did-god-want-son/12#97276341

shadeyinka:
Christ did not abolish the scripture. Jesus taught us to rightly judge and apply the scriptures.

Have you forgotten how I easily get annoyed at dishonesty Shade?

'Violate' does not mean 'abolish'! And Jesus clearly upped the ante with his turn the other cheek.

HellVictorinho:
Blowing yourself up doesn't require assurance of money!
Terrorizing does towards a successful operation!
In other words,the spoils will have to be shared!
But Hell will rather release a rap song towards expressing himself!

So you will blow yourself up for nothing or for a rap song then share the spoils of, what, exactly? Either ways, goodluck, Hell.

Though, honestly speaking, I can see how your rap song can do the same as my books.

ono:
The narrowmindedness you allude to applies in "the battle for survival". Clear?

No. It applies to your narrow view of there being only two sides which makes everyone friend or foe.

ono:
In the battle for survival, there is no middle grounds. You're either on the right side (the Lord side) or the wrong (left side - the Devil side). And I'm not preaching here.

Typical narrow mindedness that sees everything as a battle and cannot find a middle path. And he says that and claims he is not preaching here, lol.

If you were god ono, you'd eliminate those who don't bow down to you, but see how the Lord God adopts the middle path of live and let live.

Martian:
I don't care either way. I'm just positing how the ancient people who came up with some of these stories would have counted lunar months as "years". I’m probably wrong. Either way 77.5 years makes more sense that 930 years. It seems you take some parts as literal and interpret the rest how you want!!!.
How many years did Methuselah live? 969 years or 81years?

You do care! The fact that you spend your time and data and device to be here discussing it shows you do despite your refusal to acknowledge you do.

As to your question, I am sure you mean How many years is it written that Methuselah lived? Unless your position is that a person named Methuselah lived at all.

Which is it Martian? Did Methuselah live?

Martian:
That’s because a subjugated and myopic peoples abandon their virtue for fool’s gold. It’s better taught in Christianity because the culture is not as valued as Christianity, so it’s virtues take a back seat.

Are you claiming you write in English because you are myopic, Martian, and do not value your culture so you let it take a back seat?

Martian:
That’s a lie. Before the Europeans spread their disease to Africa, they practiced religious madness on themselves and they were all members of the so called unifying religion.

The unifying religions unified at the point of a sword. Religion may be able to prevent conflict, but it’s a very fertile source of conflicts
Look up European warsofreligion or Uthman Dan Fodio’s goal of “dipping the sword of islam in the ocean”

So, your learning taught you that Europeans practised a unified religion?

Please tell me if you think Odin and Zeus and Jupiter were the same God please, and explain how even the Greek States worshipped various diverse Gods that are written to have wared against each other, or tell me the world began with Uthman Dan Fodio in 1754?

Martian:
The Christians and Muslims were and are more concerned about spreading their superstitions rather than knowledge.

That may well be the case but we are not talking about Christians and Muslims, but about the Bible and the Quran which both do not spread what you claim unless you are braindead and refuse to apply your own mind to what you read.

Martian:
Of course I don’t give credence to the bible for writing in English. I write in English because I grew up in a former British colony and reside in a former British Colony. It was for their own benefit that English be spoken for primarily trade reasons and you don’t need the bible to learn English.

You have obviously not bothered to educate yourself to know that English itself relied heavily on the translation of the Bible. Please find a book on the History of the King James Version to disabuse yourself of your lack of knowledge.

Martian:
Why isn’t the Mormon bible required? It continues the story of Jesus and his sojourn on the American continent. Do you have any reason to doubt the veracity of the Mormon Bible? The new testament is supposed to be a continuation of the Jewish scriptures and I don’t see you doubting that? Why do you accept and quote Paul and co’s revelations and not Joseph Smith’s? Why dismiss it if you read haven’t read it? It may contain some of those “profound” quotes you’re fond of.

Same reason I do not quote Buddha despite it containing some profounder quotes. It would be like speaking Latin to Arabic speakers.

You do not know if I doubt or not so stop making crap up about me and believing it like its true please!

Martian:
Wasting your time constantly studying foreign religious texts is a symptom of subjugation.

This is the religious section. Are you subjugated, Martian? Do you agree that constantly discussing foreign religions is a symptom of your subjugation?

Martian:
Food for thought.
930 years does not mean “years” but months.
Adam lived for 930 months is 77.5 years because a primitive people would have been tracking the moon instead of movement around the sun.

No, you can not do that, Martian. You can't just change the text to be what you want it to be or we might as well just agree they surely died when they did not surely die till many years afterwards!

You can not just take an "Infinite sets of 30 Alphabets, symbols and punctuation Characters", "juggle them an Infinite amount of time" and claim "intelligence can result"!

shadeyinka:
What is the probability given

1. Infinite sets of 30 Alphabets, symbols and punctuation Characters
2. A means of throwing/juggling them
3. Infinite amount of time to repeat the above that

1. Intelligence can result
By intellegence I mean Logic acting on data and producing results consistent with the logic.
Or
2. A meaningful book can result


Some professors are of the opinion that given enough time, without any seed of intellegence behind it, a computer can write a love letter or a chemistry textbook!

And I agree with them!

zendi:
My opinion stands unscathed, which is based on widely observed lunacies of the left.
You only displayed typical left wing intolerance and cancel mentality, thereby further vindicating my opinion.

As if the warped opinions you create inside your head needs vindicating before you believe it. When did evidence and the facts start mattering to you?

Godoverevery:
my advice for you is this.....if she can tolerate her own siblings then is common sense she know you have tolerate your husband siblings too.

In yoruba land you can't disrespect your in-law as a woman infact you dare not call the one you older than by name.

You should ask yourself why you married me if I was "such women", because I am certain you would not want the beautiful amazing daughters I would have for you to turn out to be "such women" which is bound to be the case if I was "such women" myself. Were you blind, perhaps?

Do know that this is 2021 and not 1821. We do not tolerate anymore but respect and demand respect in return. If your siblings can not respect your wife with your support she can pack her stuff and dump your ass. I mean, it's not as if I can't go and work and pay my own rent and the schoolfees of your daughters if you the husband who promised to love me above everyone else refuses to protect me from your rude siblings and instead assume I am "such women".

Please choose. You either respect me and order your siblings to respect me or ........ Because if you have any sense you would realise that by disrespecting me they are disrespecting you too.

MrPresident1:
Psalms 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

No one argues that, mrp. The issue is who is the wicked that forgets God between you and I, and I don't so much think you forgot God but do not know God at all.

HellVictorinho:
What if Boko Haram is actually owned and sponsored by someone with less time to read but more money to spend?

How can you stop Boko Haram without stopping such person

If the person wants you and your library to be eaten up by bombs,who will save you?

I think you mean, what if you are more interested in the money boko haram gives you than the books I give to you.

In that case, I've simply lost you and failed where you are concerned and will hopefully change my tactics and work harder when I move on to the next person and start earlier before boko haram gets to them. After all, you might be old and be attracted to boko haram but there must be children like 2-4 year olds who are not on their radar yet. If I teach children the way of books they are less likely to depart from it and go on to be doctors, lawyers, teachers etc instead of ignorant stupid boko haram jihadists, and I doubt its difficult to teach even you which you should prefer. As to stopping that person from getting to you before I do, same really. Teach him how to read so he does not teach you to blow yourself up.

Libraries are not the thing so much anymore. They are like landlines in the age of mobile phones. I have more books on my phone these days than I have on my shelves, and with clouds, they are safe even if you blow up my phone.

I don't need saving, Hell. Everyone dies someday.

Martian:
Yoruba - Iwa Pele. Being of good character includes loving thy neighbor.
Ancient Egypt - If person fails to help an injured person who later dies, he has committed a crime.
Ancient Egypt - If a person is found murdered in a province and the perpetrator is not found, the province was monetarily punished.

It's not that it is not taught at all, Martian. Just that it is better taught in Christianity than Iwa Pẹlẹ seems to have done. Prior to the more unifying religions that straddled tribe and culture you were not neighbour if you spoke a different language or worshipped a different God.

And for your information, the Bible evolved out of Ancient Egyptian religion so we can't exactly claim the Bible killed it.

Martian:
No, the education system evolved from the natural progression of knowledge accumulation over time. Giving to much credence to the bible is similar to some western whites who act as if they created fire when they barely got the torch of civilization.

You will give no credence to the mass availability of books that was promoted through Christianity and Islam. To you, it was just a natural progression and no one sacrificed so you could be educated. I bet you would not even give credence to the Bible for you writing in English. Is that not a natural progression too, Martian?

Martian:
What is a progressive understanding of the amalgamation of Jewish scriptures and Graeco Roman superstitious inventions?

A progressive understanding will be one that takes that which precedes the current understanding into consideration in order to understand the present. Are you aware we read Plato and Aristotle and Homer and Ancient Egyptian texts? Would your understanding of the Bible not be severely limited if you do not know of such texts?

Martian:
What if I say you don't properly understand the book until you've read the Mormon Bible, which is an amalgamation of Jewish scriptures, Graeco Roman superstitious inventions, and "revelations" of an American white?

You may say so but I'd have to assume you are being Martian and I don't have a clue what you mean since the Mormon Bible is not required for understanding the Holy Bible as such.

I do insist your opinion is incorrect, but then I might be wrong. Please respond in your local language so I can be certain you have not been subjugated, destroyed of cultures, imperialised, and colonialised by the King James Version that is responsible for the current language you post in please. Nothing would prove your point better.


P.s. Please know that you are I are talking cross purposed here. You seem to think that to read the Bible is to believe as if that is the purpose of reading, and until we clarify this point you and I will keep coming stuck at this point and will not progress. We are in 2021. I put it to you that if you live in a society that has been religionised like ours has and do not read the religious texts, you will be subjugated, destroyed of cultures, imperialised, and colonialised and enslaved, and only by reading them can you be free. Consider.

Godoverevery:
Just use your brain that all.......my siblings can't give me wife problem but if they do I will deal with them....common sense.
But can my wife send my siblings out of my house or tell me they can't come......them no born her papa.


No one will give you problem if you are Patience....

I hope you would at the very least consider her reasons instead of just assuming she is "such women".