₦airaland Forum

Image123: The scriptures cannot be broken. Stop attempting to break it, i plead with you.
1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

1Co 16:1 Now about the giving of money for the saints, as I gave orders to the churches of Galatia, so do you.
1Co 16:2 On the first day of the week, let every one of you put by him in store, in measure as he has done well in business, so that it may not be necessary to get money together when I come. (BBE)


1Co 16:1 When you collect money for God's people, I want you to do exactly what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 That is, each Sunday each of you must put aside part of what you have earned. If you do this, you won't have to take up a collection when I come. (CEV)

1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come. (Goodnews)

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I commanded the assemblies of Galatia, you do likewise.
1Co 16:2 On the first day of the week, let each one of you save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come. (WEB)

The Bible says Paul ordered Christians to give, i didn't just dream it up. i just showed it since you said otherwise. i'm not interested in winning an argument, its yours to win. i'm only showing the Bible because i cannot do anything against the truth but for the truth. It's not by force ehn. Don't let it be such a great deal to you. The Bible NEVER condemned giving of tithes. The Spirit of God did not forget.

1Co 9:11 We have sown spiritual seed among you. Is it too much if we reap material benefits from you?
1Co 9:12 If others have the right to expect this from you, don't we have an even greater right? But we haven't made use of this right. Instead, we have endured everything in order not to put any obstacle in the way of the Good News about Christ.

1Co 9:11 If we have been planting the things of the Spirit for you, does it seem a great thing for you to give us a part in your things of this world?
1Co 9:12 If others have a part in this right over you, have we not even more? But we did not make use of our right, so that we might put nothing in the way of the good news of Christ.

And I tell you that you misinterpret. If Christ came to give us liberty and Paul lost his life preaching Grace and Liberty of the Christian, don't you think its absurd that the same Paul would now stand over the believers with a gun kind of and 'order' them to give or else he'll punish them(wonder what his threat would have been)?

Follow the verse slowly like this.....

Now concerning the collection for the saints,.......see, he was making reference to what they all knew to do. See the next part of the statement 'as i have given order to the churches of galatia, even so do ye'. What were they supposed to do? See it 'Upon the first day if the week let every one of you lay by him in store,...........that there be no gatherings when i come. The bolded is the order he gave: GET IT READY BEFORE I COME TO AVOID RUSHING TO MEET UP.

They all knew they were going to give to help the poor saints at Jerusalem. Practical demonstration of love to neighbor was a part of the message they heard from Paul. You know how I got to know? See the below

Gal 2:9-10
'And when James, Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the curcumcision.10.Only they would that we should remember the poor: the same which I also was forward to do'

Charity and hospitality towards the poor was a cardinal point of Paul's message as we find in his letters. He didn't need to order or force anybody my bro. All gentile converts Paul preached to knew the beauty of love in action and they were pleased to give. So says Romans 15:27.

It wasn't tithe they were gathering neither were they forced to give. It makes a mess of the doctrine of grace my bro for GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER NOT A FORCED GIVER

The funny thing is that all the translations you reproduced support this position if you can just read in context. The order is on how to get what they are giving ready for the sake of orderliness.

Also I see you quoting about his welfare. Pls note that 1Cor 16:1-3 talks about collections for POOR saints, NOT for PAUL. Its not about winning argument but about rightly dividing the word of truth.

idnoble135: @Candour, i understand. Your post were sentiments. If i did not expect it, then something is wrong. I await two more brothers. They will not fail to unleash sentiment.
You sir, need not to weep for me. Is it not interesting that your response was clouded with emotions? Not a single bible verse! Where is the grace that should salt you comment? Even if i was wrong, where is the tenderness in the rebuke. This is a shame on modern christianity.
Simply because someone has dissenting views, we go all out on them.
Ride on pls. God is your strength.

I wish I could display tenderness in rebuke. In fact that is my usual style but I just realised it pronlongs the debate unnecessarily because proponents of obvious lies get more brazen.

Its a different thing if we were arguing whether Jesus spoke with tongues or not. For you to attempt to justify an obvious lie that Jesus, from tribe of Judah and a carpenter by trade Paid and Received tithe is an almost unpardonable deliberate dishonesty.

Have you read the old testament? Its a different thing if you asked. No one knows it all. Everyday I log in to NL I trust to learn something knew. But you've been very brazen in your position that you were right, even when Alwaystrue directly contradicted you with a fact of her own.

No my bro. You are not interested in knowledge that goes against the traditions you were brought up with.

Sorry if I was too harsh. I promise to chill henceforth.

idnoble135: SMH...

I not only SMH.....I also weep for you.

Did you read what you posted there at all?

Idnoble, so after all the wait, that write up is the rhema we were waiting for?

Jesus was baptised, bible recorded it.

Jesus prayed, bible recorded it.

Jesus ate, bible recorded it.

Jesus went to synagogue religiously every sabbath, bible recorded it.

Jesus even paid tax and the bible recorded it.

But the almighty tithe on which your pastors claim my financial wellbeing, health, fruitfulness etc laid was ominously omitted as done by Jesus in all the new testament? My brother, whoever taught you that thing you wrote is very wicked.

Let me reiterate again

Jesus NEVER paid tithe because he was not a farmer and he DID NOT collect tithes because he was not a levite.

Pls look for another lie

Alwaystrue: @idnoble,
I know Abraham and his descendants tithe of which we are a part of through Jesus Christ but I must tell you I went to check the bible to confirm this and I am just wowed!

Indeed not only did He teach, He also did.

Acts 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Hmmm, so there were some things not recorded. Weldone @idnoble.

Of course some things were not recorded. Like Jesus falling sick, after all he also mentioned that sick people go to the physician. Then he also used a toilet since he also mentioned that what enters the tummy ends up in the drought.

Very pathetic

idnoble135: Relax... My friend, it is well.
The widow in question was not an israelite, how could she have tithed?
She did not even recognize Elijah despite how popular he was by the virtue of being sought by Ahab in all the nations.
And i did not say those ladies tithed. Read my post as it is and dont add words to it.
Thank you.

No wahala. Take your time and search it out.

Meanwhile, glad you wrote the bolded because in case you don't know it, you've just proved again that Ephesian, Galatian, Roman and other gentile Christians couldn't have tithed because Tithe only came from land within Isreal

I await your expose of Jesus tithe patiently.

Thanks

Alwaystrue: @Idnoble,
As usual I am not surpised. My post was a question being that we had no record of Jesus acts between 12-30 years but ofcourse it is seen as an 'answer' despite all I posted. LOL.

I thank the Lord for the Holy Spirit, only He guides in all truth indeed.
Please let us respect the word of God.

Alwaystrue, you're actually better than this. This is very indecent. How can you deny what you wrote up there blatantly?

Jesus did not tithe. If he did prove it

idnoble135: @Candour, there are two points i want to bring out here.
First, within the space of thirty years which Jesus lived before being commissioned, He must have done some work. Jewish traditions hold that apart from being tutored in schools that existed, a child must learn a hand work. Now from all indications, it is apparent that Jesus worked, most likely from the job Joseph was doing.
2. I'm not with my bible but i think it should be Luke 8 where we are told the master was being ministered to by some people of their substance.
Those two indications suggest a thing here. This is not exactly why i said Jesus tithed but an indication that He did.

No my friend. You sounded so sure that he tithed. The widow that fed Elijah, was it tithe she paid or she just helped an hungry man? I'm happy you mentioned Jewish traditions. Now go back to that source if Jewish traditions to establish that only farmers tithed in Isreal.

Jesus NEVER tithed before he started ministry because he was a carpenter not a farmer. Only farm produce and livestock qualify for tithe.

Those women gave free will gifts to Jesus, they didn't pay tithe.

Idnoble, check point 1 of Alwaystrue quote. You'll learn Jesus didn't tithe

Thanks

Alwaystrue: For those who need understanding:

Quit these games sister. The whole world knows neither Jesus nor any of the apostles received tithes from believers because they knew it was the right of levites and they were no levites.

Where then did you receive the example of Christians tithing?

Pls go back and digest Ihedinobi's thoughts on tithing. He did a good and honest job there

idnoble135: dont get worked up. Answer my three posts and we would be good to go.

Don't worry

Alwaystrue has answered for you on christemmbassey's thread.

Zikkyy: the joagbaje I know will not continue anything.

Na smart man he be na. Underestimate him at your peril

He knows he can't defend anything. In fact I'm grateful to these guys, they made me understand some things I didn't know before about the bible and people

Zikkyy: Alwaystrue is beginning to sound like bidam and am not sure that's a good thing

I'm very disappointed Zikkyy. I always looked forward to her analysis because I honestly learnt from them but the gymnastics of these past few days have eroded my belief about her intentions.

I respected her so much that its sad

idnoble135: lol..... You did not offend me there, though i did not like such tags being associated to me.
Now the thing here is, i want to share and i definitely know it will provoke reactions. But i do not have the motivation to do so. There are already three posts of mine on this thread that i'm yet to get clear cut answers on, from you. All you've done is to tacticity evade them.
Why should i speak further when i'm not getting answers?
Maybe we should just leave this till another time.

All I ask is for you to show me from the Bible that Jesus tithed as you claim.

I'll apologise for calling you a liar if you can. If you can't, admit you made a mistake and we drop it.

Is that too much to prove?

Alwaystrue: There was some things I expect you to just meditate on but I am surprised you now try everything to prove a point.

But I am saying this for your benefit and will not comments anymore om this thread:

1. Why would Jesus tithe when He did not have secular work? And His testament was not yet sealed till His death and He was born during the Levitival Priesthood so all offerings and tithes went to the temple yet he never condemned this and Paul reaffirmed it.

2. The people under perter gave all during the time of the apostles so they were giving 100% yet there were still complaints even within the widows when they did not get out of it. Strangely though it was not a law yet Ananias decided to go ahead and kept part and lied and lost his life.

3. Paul was being examined why? You can check the 1 Corinthians 9 and he decided to let go of what He called a right, so why will he use the right? Still he received gifts one of which he even called a fragrant offering and acceptable sacrifice. Phil 4:18 and he blessed them in verse 19. Paul ws not afraid to use a burnt offering term to describe it. He understood it. Anything of sacrifice is a burnt offering.

4. The offering for the poor saints was because of the famine and they had been giving their all already so the offerings were given to help them, it was not meant to be continuous. Atleast till they got back to their feet.

I am actually dissappointed that even when some of your fellows say some very heretical statements about Jesus and His word you still feel comfortable bantering with them even calling Jesus what He should not be called. Because something has been abused does not make the use wrong. You are not focusing on the right thing here.

Still nothing is compulsory but for our benefit whatever we do.
If Paul and Silas had not praised, may be the prison doors might not have opened on time, even Jesus said somethings goeth not out but by fasting and prayer, Jesus said we give and we receive, may be if prayers were not going on for Peter on Acts 12:5, he might not have been released on time. God has blessed us but their are something things we need to do to also access them. Hour has given us food but we need to work for it and so on.

It is one thing to not believe in a thing. It is another to make mockery of what you do not understand.
It is becoming ridiculous seeing some comments.
Please just spent time to do your own meditation, rather than trying to argue and score cheap points, be strong in your concluded stand irrespective of what anyone says.

Thanks for the time.
God bless you.

ThankGod you agree Jesus didn't tithe. So pls help me tell idnoble that HE LIED

You are being economical with the truth about what the new Christians at Jerusalem did. Apart from the Christians at Jerusalem, can you honestly point to ant Church where they gave all in the new testament?

Since you know they gave all, why relate it to tithe? Have you forgotten tithe is 10%? Why can't you just agree every man gave as he purposed without compulsion during the apostles ministry?

Its a simple thing to do dear sister. Did Paul collect tithes from the believers knowing fully well that he was not a levite? Can it be that difficult to give a straight answer?

You truly amaze me sister

The point I'm trying to prove is that tithing under whatever guise is not Christian doctrine but a doctrine of criminals because its founded on total falsehood

christemmbassey: if he doesn't twist, hom else will he decieve those dat r too lazy to read d bible! How can he pepertuate d tithe fraud. I thank God there are ppl like u to counter his falsehood.

The thing tire me bro. I put up posers up about tithe collection by Jesus and the apostles and none of them could refute it.

So if apostles didn't collect tithes, when did tithe start?

Image123: i leave you to your pride and ignorance. you are always free to read Numbers 18 again.
Edited

What pride now? Were u not arguing about the demarcation of levite and priest since the beginning of this thread until I pointed out Num 18 to u? Check from page 3 onwards to confirm.

If you have no case, say so. Stop playing victim

Image123: Mr, the issue is clear and straight. you said that Christianity is all about free will giving. i have simply shown that there were times, in the Bible, where people were ordered to give. Here it is again,
1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
The epistle here showed ORDER being given, people being COMMANDED to give. i have severally stated that New Testament is not by force. But it will be childish and ignorant to deny that there is a yoke and burden to bear, there are commandments to be obeyed, and the Christian is expected to live as a soldier, obeying.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Here is what the Bible states about rights.
1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
1Co 9:4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
1Co 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1Co 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?

the Bible says it, i believe it, and that settles it for me. i am not you, please stop trying to force me/us to be you.

And I tell you it's a lie. Haba! How can you come here and tell us Paul ordered Christians to give? Give otherwise he'll do what?

Read that 1Cor 16:1-2 again. Concerning the collections which they already knew about, he gave an order on format of collection which was 'set it aside on first day of the week'. What is so difficult to understand?

Every believed knows knows he's to give if he truly realises what God gave up for him or her. So how can you justify saying Paul ordered them to give. Where is the God loveth a cheerful giver part?

Paul didn't collect tithes. He collected freewill collections and he didn't need to force anybody because He had no right to.

This your thinking is what egged Rev King on to murder o. Having power over Christians? Haba!

OLAADEGBU: God's law was written on Jacob's heart and he didn't hesitate to do the right thing. He got rid of his idols even before the giving of the 1st and 2nd commandments.

Stop beating about the bush. Why would he vow something you said he knew he owed anyway? Whether blessing or not, you said he knew he owed God a tithe. So pls tell why he gave God a condition before fulfilling His obligation?

Image123: A tenth got to the altar, stop trying to desperately distort facts. And all the tenth/tithe were referred to as a heave offering, all of it. Please re-read the chapter if you do not know.

Stop forming champion and stop clutching at straws. As if you even know about Num 18 before now .

10% of 10% got to the priest which is 1% if the whole abi that small maths complex?

The tithe you're shouting about is 10% or 1%? and for your info, tithes are not heave offerings. Stop twisting the bible. Except your tithe us now the 1%

OLAADEGBU: What we know is that Jacob whose name later became Israel vowed to give 10% of all that the Lord gave him. The rest is now history.

"....I will surely give the tenth to you" (Genesis 28:20-22).

If it was a vow by Jacob, when did it become mandatory? If he was used to paying it before, why make it a special vow when its what you said he'd been doing all along like Abraham, Isaac ?

idnoble135: lol.... I thought we agreed that you will study it first. I already gave you the books of Mathew and Acts.

I have bro......still can't find it.

Show me and I'll apologise

anyasijo: Thanks Enigma, i am impressed we still have people that have not bowed to mammor, in the name of exploiting the members of there church. In churches today you buy everything. You buy prosperity with your tithe, if the disciples and Jesus christ did not demand for tithe i wonder why the gospel of tithe has taken over the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ .

@the bolded, because we have criminals and greedy people involved in Church now and tithe is a cash cow

Jesus NEVER paid tithes because he was not a farmer neither did he collect tithes because he was not a Levite. Any person saying he did is a LIAR and knows nothing about Levitical priesthood.

The apostles were mostly fishermen, tax collector therefore they couldn't have paid tithe. They definitely were not from Levi so they SURELY DID NOT collect tithes.even Paul was clearly mentioned as from Benjamin. Any person saying they collected is a LIAR and knows nothing about the Levitical priesthood.

Provide scriptures that say they did and I'll apologise.

To whom then did the early Christians pay tithe? Remember the Levitical order was still on as the Temple was only destroyed in 70AD by general Titus while Jesus was crucified in 29AD

Jesus NEVER paid tithes because he wasn't a farmer, neither did he collect tithes because he wasn't a Levite. Any person who says he did is a LIAR.

The apostles couldn't have collected tithes because bible has no record of them as Levites. In fact Paul was a Benjamite. Any person saying they collected tithes from people is Lying and knows nothing about the Levitical order.

To whom then did the early Christians pay their tithes to if they paid? Remember Levitical priesthood continued until 70AD when general Titus overran Jerusalem while Jesus was crucified in 29AD.

idnoble135: It is well. See the way i was singled out when i made my stance known, lol. It is well.
As the days go by, i'd trust to make posts. I've read threads where it is told that Jesus never tithed, yet He did. I've read threads where it is told that tithe is self righteousness... Lol! Tithe is not self righteousness, its not, it bigger than that.
Thanks to the pro tithe and anti tithe whose posts forced me to search out scriptures for my self.
Like my first post on this thread states, Jesus never cancelled tithes, if it was the Father's will, Jesus will have been prompted to specifically cancel it. He already cancelled the early view on divorce, murder, lust etc. But it came to tithe and there was no, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU", rather, it was "THESE THINGS YE OUGHT TO DO". That to me is the biggest evidence in line with the thread, why tithe still exists.
And with this, i think i'm done with the thread.

@the bolded, pls stop saying that, its ridiculous.

Saying Jesus paid tithes when he walked the earth is a LIE. A very big LIE

Pls give me the scripture reference and I'll apologise for calling it a lie.

idnoble135: Interesting.... When Jesus touched the leper in mathew 8, He was following the law right?
When the law did not permit the woman caught in adultery to be stoned in John 8, He was following the law right?

Really??

So what did his cross achieve then? Why did he still need to die since the new covenant of Grace had already started?

idnoble135: We already learnt that the LAW came through MOSES, but GRACE AND TRUTH came through JESUS CHRIST. Then why will Jesus be teaching on the law?
Also, i need your comment on the crucial point made in this post.

When did Grace start? Before or after the death of Jesus? Your answer should clear up why he was teaching on the law.

The point you made is a play on words. I showed you Matt 23:1-3. He also said 'do all they ask you to' what do you make of that?

Gombs: Quit beating around d bush...my question below is as above



If you can't answer, I'd understand


Aside Isaac show where God instructed Abraham to give offerings but I can show you a carton of scriptures where God instructed Moses. Now if Moses' law is no longer in effect and since you say tithing is of the law, then why still give offerings?

Why not go ahead and offer what Abram offered on the altar? Do you lack fuel and matches? Bring your ram and let's sacrifice

What you give today is what the widow gave, not what Abram did. You stop bastardising the word offering

idnoble135: Of course, there is a thing to learn. Except you did not see it. I could point out a number things to learn from that chapter.
The way you put it, makes it look like the chapter is even useless in the bible. Smh

Stop shaking your head. Do you do slave dealings today? Have you torn references to slave practices in your bible yet?

Learn to separate what was written to those under law and those under grace my bro.

Matt 23 was talking with respect to practice of Mosaic law

Alwaystrue: @Gombs,
No need to go to dictionary. What you need is in the word:

Matthew 5:23-24
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift


I hope you know that is also called offering.
Jesus knew perfectly what He was saying. Please do not let anyone try to deceive you.

so what kind of gift do you think he was talking there? Jesus lived in Levitical times so pls tell, what kind of gift would you take to the altar where a priest is officiating? answer is Live animal or food offerings. Is that what you take to Church today?

What the widow offered is the exact thing we give as offering today

idnoble135: @Candour and Christembassy, i was not caught off guard by your replies. I've read it on other threads and i've pondered on it.
I believe that excuse is not valid. I guess everywhere we read in the bible something like... "and Jesus spoke to the crowd saying..." we should ignore it because we are not the crowd.
When he spoke to the disciples in Acts 1:8, he was not referring to us because he was speaking to the disciples. That excuse is very lame bro.
See, every word Jesus said might not apply to us directly but it will carry principles that are vital for us. You think all what Jesus was saying was just to make a point to the Pharisee alone? If it were, there would be no need to include it in the Bible because it is irrelevant to us. After all, John told us that there were alot of things He said and did that were not recorded. In the same John, he let us know he spoke only what He heard. And the Father's word in the Scriptures are meant for us.
Okay, look at Mathew 16, Jesus was speaking and He made it clear that the "great confession" which Peter uttered were not revealed by flesh and blood but by the Father.
By your theory, we can also conclude that all what God meant was only Peter can get revelation since Jesus was not talking to us nor the apostles but Peter.
But thats wrong, the principle there is there are things that we can not know via our natural human faculties. But God is telling us a principle here that He can reveal to us what we can in no way know via our carnal understanding.
Now to the verse...

“What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful
to tithe even the tiniest
income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God.
You should tithe, yes, but do
not neglect the more
important things. Luke 11:42NLT

I guess we can overlook this also because Jesus was talking to the Pharisees right?
What a joke!

Hear Jesus in Matt 23:1-3
'Then spake Jesus to the multitudes, and t his disciples,2.Saying, the scribes and the pharisees sit in Moses seat:3.All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do ;but do not ye after their works: for they say and do not'

See the bolded. Are you telling me Jesus asked you to obey all the laws and commands the Scribes and Pharisees draw up? So what principle can you learn from the bolded?

My bro, wanting to stick to verse 23 because of tithe while ignoring verse 1-3 is the joke