₦airaland Forum

Wonderful message of Grace

Christ came to die for the ungodly. Those who couldn't save themselves. Just like the adulteress who knew she was wrong and deserved what was coming. She had no plea but Christ was there to give her the gift of no condemnation.

I tell you, that woman who saw how close she was to death WILL NEVER enter an illicit affair again. That is what grace does. If we truly believe the gospel that we are sinners due for death but Christ came to die in our place, we'll NEVER make friends with works of unrighteousness.

God bless you

theoctopus: ^^^

It is more blessed to give truly. But why is it only your congregation that gives and you do all the spending with big cars and mansions?

I thought I was the only one that had this question. But in my fear not to touch the Lord's anointed, I rationalised it as division of labour

Thank God for bible study now.

shdemidemi: @ alwaystrue and Tgirl

Are we under any covenant as Christians?

My bro, which kind sabbathical you go without approval so?

Trust all is well with you? Welcome back bro

Ihedinobi: No one decides for me how much I ought to give toward the welfare of my family. That much is my prerogative. The only thing that matters is that I do not neglect the needs of my brethren. Anytime I do, if I choose to "restitute" in any manner , it is none of your business.

Do you appreciate the import of what I am saying now?

Ihedinobi, permit me to comment on this post particularly the bolded.

We wouldn't even be discussing this if not that a G.O leading a congregation of thousands or even millions wrote in a widely circulated book that 'God will send devourers if you do not pay tithe in arrears and add interest for good measure'

If it was just a question of what Candour, debosky or Ihedinobi decide to do in their heart, it won't be a problem. If that is Adeboye's style, good for him. But to peddle it as gospel truth is causing untold harm to the spiritual growth of baby Christians.

I'm glad that you at least are against the compulsive nature of the tithe messages of today but this message by Adeboye is one of the worst I've heard on this topic.

It promotes superstition and negates the work of grace. It is also not true. I've not tithed in years and have grown financially than when I tithed. My boss in my office joined Church of Christ(they don't tithe) in 1969 and has never tithed since then. He just opened a farm worth over 100million. He has Engineers and doctors among his children. He alone is testimony that Adeboye's message is faulty and can't be applied as Gospel truth.

Gal 5:1
'Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage'

We are indeed free from the yoke and bondage of the law and its ordinances. They couldn't make us righteous anyway. God poured his grace on us and gave us the gift of his own righteousness, not for us to start engaging in licentiousness or wanton living, but that we should henceforth overflow in good works.

Eph 2:10
'For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them'

Good works or Godly living must become our lifestyle if we've truly being saved by Christ. We are not under rules and regulations on paper but his Spirit leads us daily into all righteousness. A tree must sprout the fruit of the seed that grew it, so also if the seed if God has been planted in us, it must bring forth the fruits of the Spirit. Our liberty is for service

Gal 5:13
'For brethren, ye have been called unto liberty: only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another'

Grace is not licence to serve the flesh

greaterlove: I was once invited for a service by my friend, he was a worker in the church and before we left home, he was telling me that they lost some members who were on their way back from a yearly program of their church in an accident the previous day and that some of the survivals are still in the hospital. To my surprise nothing of such was mentioned during the whole service, the pastor carried on as if nothing happened the previous day. I looked at my friend after the service and told him exactly how I felt.

Its packaging. They must package an aura of invincibility when Christ even said in this world, we'll have tribulation but we should be of good cheer because we'll overcome at last.

That is how one keeps screaming how tithing is working for him only for me to discover he was even begging to be employed as a driver with dangote group. Seeking the employment wasn't the bad thing but why paint a picture of great success just to convince people that tithe works?

aManFromMars: I agree with @Candour's post, but ehm, no be following Sunday o.. Some get Monday service, Tuesday service, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday night vigil, Saturday rehearsals.. Lol

Pastor Skeeto from the red planet. You even sabi our fellowship days pass me.....after you go say make I carry you go church

Don't worry, God is showing my people the light.

That is the reality of today's churches. They deny that suffering is a part of life so why should they be associated with death, the ultimate leveller?

Its the practice in every so called pentecostal church of today baring maybe DLBC, Apostolic Faith and some very few others.

People that refuse to acknowledge common malaria attack so as not to appear faithless, how will they announce death? Then the greed, avarice and covetousness in these gatherings prevent them from being honest about death. A Christian conscious of death will surely walk circumspectly and will not be bogged down by material things when you know your life on earth is temporal.

Announcing death or being associated with death is very bad for business. Church for them is one big party and death is sobering. They need the members far from being sober so they can't do any introspection. Everybody jumps up, feels high and goes back home to prepare for the following Sunday's fix. No opportunity for any reflection.

theoctopus: Funny question. Jesus said you must be born again. That was a requirement clearly spelt out. Abraham gave tithe to melchizedek. That was a report of an incident, not an instruction. Abraham never said we are supposed to do it. You are the one that turned it into a doctrine that we are supposed to do. So your question is funny.

God bless you bro. Good question.

How can you turn an incident into a cardinal doctrine of the Church?

Communion was commanded to Christians

Baptism was commanded to Christians

Tithe was not commanded to Christians yet it is the cardinal doctrine on which the modern church is built. Is that not an indication that promoters of it are being dishonest?

Zikkyy: Pastors game plan:

Attack: play Malachi 3
Midfield: Combine Paul (1 Cor.) and Matthew 23
Defender: Play Abbie in defence
Goalkeeping: use the brainwashed sheep & sometimes junior pastors
Coach: Pastor

Zikkyy, you sabi football like this na im we dey find coach? Abeg go sign up quickly

Alwaystrue: ^^^^^^
You asked someone that question, a few minutes ago. Please wait for him to answer you. Then I will bring my own response. If he fails to then be rest assured that he knows the answer already. We will see who is dishonest afterall.
If you still cannot wait, patiently read the thread and see all the answers. I can see you just came in mid-stream.


Suddenly, you have nothing more to say concerning the scriptures I posted? I have realised no one can argue with scriptures indeed.
Thank you.

You're a fraud and I doubt you're a lady behind the moniker. You're the biggest proof on this thread that tithing for Christians is a fraud. Your inconsistencies and scriptural gymnastics give you away. I'm so thrilled to see other Christians who do not readily join these discussions give you answers.

You claim tithing is for Christians, yet all the apostles forgot to mention in all their epistles that Christians should pay it. Idumuose is only asking a rhetorical question my dear. He knows the answer already because he's seeing the light.

You should notice everybody has stopped responding to you because you're a joke. Go home and cook for your husband my dear and that is if you're really a woman.

Go and create another ID. You've lost whatever reputation you had with this one, at least with me.

idumuose: Are Ɣ☺u saying anytime Ɣ☺u see commandments in the bible,it means
The ten commandments or the commandments in the O.T?
1Jn3vs22-24(NKJV) .......because we keep his commandments and do those
Things that are pleasing in his sight.V23 And this is his commandments:that
We should believe on the name of the lord and love one another.... Read
verse 24.
Like Goshen said Ɣ☺u can limit commandments to 10commandments or
The ordinances.
Check my profile and Ɣ☺u will realise that this is my first post on religion in
NL.I really thank God for directing me to this section of nL as I hv always limited
My interest to politics.
Having read the write ups on pro tithe and anti tithe,I have come to realise that
our pastors have been making a merchandise of us on tithes and offering.
If Ɣ☺u think that anti tithe brethren here are not winning people to their side
then Ɣ☺u are living in denial.it is a pity that our pastors have brought us to this
sorry state.Someone here said 'no matter how far lies and deceit have travelled,
the truth will eventually overtake it.No wonder Nigeria is in this sorry state.
Thanks to Christeembassey,frosbel,Goshen,pastor kun and other brethren whose
Eyes have been opened to this fraud called tithe.
My sisters at home,3 of them have sworn not to pay tithes again,instead they
will give their pastor a seed and then give the rest to brethre who are needy.

Thank God for you. Surely not everybody will see the light, but no matter how few those who do are, we will continue spreading the truth that Tithing is NOT for Christians but more importantly, the Tithing in practice today is A MONUMENTAL FRAUD and total CORRUPTION of the practice given to Isreal as a law.

God bless you bro

I say wow!! Just wow!!

What monumental deception?

Narrow indeed is the way

Lord have mercy

Enigma: Especially @Candour

You can continue your learning by reading this post https://www.nairaland.com/413488/tithes-redeemed-church-what-u#5713293

Interesting the poster is known/believed by old hands to be the same person ('lady') that had argued tithing with me extensively prior.

@the bolded. How far can people go to protect this lie?

Its scary o........very scary

Funny responses

My surname has its root in a deity my ancestors were custodians of. We did a family deliverance in 2009 with the intention to change the name afterwards but I just couldn't bring myself to change my beautiful surname.

It was believed that the name was limiting our family potentials. I had a rethink when I wanted to change jobs and met 2 directors in my dream company with names that translated ' the god of iron has come' and 'the oracle carried me'.

There and then, I decided that if these names didn't limit these guys, why should mine do? Make devil go siddon for gutter jare.

Imagine someone changing her name from 'Fafunke' to 'Esther', abeg what is the difference?

Tithing lessons I got so far

1.Conditional tithe - used to force God's hand. If God doesn't perform, you don't pay. E.g Jacob

2.Once in lifetime tithe - Given from spoils of war. Christians need to adopt this style but since you don't fight wars, you must do it every month or daily self. E.g Abraham

3.100% tithe - Used to cater for needy brethren. However, don't preach the needy brethren part too often as it can negatively affect pastoral swagger.e.g Jerusalem Christians

4.Everything tithe - this is the koko. Unfailingnly remit this every time you have an increase, even if its a gift of bread. Calculate the price and tithe it. Don't mess up the church with produce o. Cash will do. Remember it will get to Jesus eventually. Forget that tithe is 10%. You can do 90% sef but it musnt go below 10% because of devourer.e.g Nigerian Christians

Benefits to the tither : get husband, wife, children, money(the meat of the gist), health, kill devourer, escape hell, increase pastoral covering on your life.

Uses of the tithe : To be determined by pastor(possibly jets, cars, homes abroad, satelite broadcast etc. as the spirit leads biko). Needy do not share in this. Remember that its for Jesus. You should help the needy if you will on your own but pls let it not affect the tithe. Remember its for God.

Lord have mercy indeed.

And somebody will tell me they don't force people to pay.

How will a weak Christian not rush to pay after reading this?

Where's Abraham's example in that write up? Tithing as practiced today in Nigeria is not of principles, Its of MOSAIC LAW

idnoble135: Thanks sis. Your words are refreshing. Three young men against i, trying to strangle tithe outta me.
If it be of God, nothing can be done over it.

You think so highly of yourself but pls enjoy it. Its perfectly legal

idnoble135: We've talked before bro and you did not bring this up. I cant split my attention.
Could you be patient let me have the discussion with Enigma. I'd attend to you when when we are done.

Oh really? Didn't bring it up then? Are u sure?

But no problem. Whenever you're ready, I should be ready too

Cheers

idnoble135: I already answered these questions on this thread sef. Pls, bring on something else. Cant keep repeating myself.
Or better still answer my own questions.

We saw your 'answers' bro, but it was plenty in words nothing in substance.

See the question. Why obey Matt 23:23 and leave Matt 23:1-3 and Mark 10:21 knowing fully well Christ spoke in all these references?

For me, Matt 23:23 was not talking to me the same way Matt 23:1-3 and Mark 10:21 did not talk to me. Hope you get me now?

So you that insists on Matt 23:23, why not the others?

idnoble135: Post the scriptures.

Haba Enigma already did. Here they are anyway

Mark 10:21
'Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, one thing thou blackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me'

Matt 23:23
'Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and common, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone'

idnoble135:

That your programmed response to Enigma's question will not cut it. Its the same post you gave to me and Goshen. Is it a 'one size fits all post'?

See the question again

Why follow Matt 23:23 and not Mark 10:21?

Enigma: I have not said or even suggested what you are claiming here!

Read my post again: my question is why should we follow the statement on "tithes" but not the one on eternal life?

Selective obedience associated with $$$.

collynzo2: you meant num 18:21-32?

Yes bro. Thanks a lot

Enigma: If Matthew 23:23 applies to Christians, what about Mark 10:21 which is even about what to do to gain eternal life!

Jesus said: “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

So, how many of our Matthew 23:23 people are selling all they have, giving to the poor, then following Jesus --- so that they may have eternal life?

Or tithes in Matthew 23 is more important than eternal life in Mark 21?

God bless you Enigma.

Oya over to Matt 23:23 proponents

Na only Malachi mention tithe? See other more detailed tithe passages

Deut 14:22-29
Num 18:21-32
Neh 10:37-39

Read them up and see if you're being told the whole truth about tithe

Edited.

idnoble135: lol... I dont engage discussions on topics that are on the front page. It will create too many distractions.
Besides, why the thread? I already read it. Why not this thread?

OK no wahala.

You said Jesus said I should tithe in Matt 23:23 and I replied that is not true because if it were, that means he's also asking you in Matt 23:1-3 to observe and do all the laws and regulations in the Torah(613 laws in all) after all he spoke all through the chapter.

Why do you think Matt 23:23 applies to Christians but bluntly reject Matt 23:1-3?

Go ahead, open up Matt 23 to our understanding. Maybe we might get it

idnoble135: No pls.... The same questions i have asked you is the same i'm asking Goshen and none of you have yet been to provide appropriate answers to.
You've both dodged answering directly.
It is well o. Till the day those questions are properly answered and the rest which i have are duly attended to, dont expect me to swallow what you guys peddle.

Which questions did you ask that you're saying have not been answered? Which questions are being dodged?

Which of the questions you've been asked have you answered?

Jesus did not pay tithe neither did he collect tithe. The apostles did not pay tithe neither did they collect tithe. This is the truth you keep running away from but it won't stop it from being the truth.

Image opened a thread on Matt 23, come and enlighten us there

idnoble135: I have said it, whosoever reads with an open mind will find the truth.

You see, bro idnoble, your statement up there shows you too are just interested in getting your views across which is same thing you accuse others of. Until we get your point of view, we are not reading with open mind.

Before you start off again in another direction, Start your reading from Matt 23:1 and see where that puts you. Image has opened a thread in it, you can go over there and do a comprehensive expose on it so we know exactly what and who Christ was talking to in Matt 23:23 that you hold so tenaciously to.

On our tithe discussions on this forum, my brethren image, Bidam, Alwaystrue, idnoble, joagbaje and others have severally said we follow Abram's example and not Mosaic Tithe. Hence we should pay tithe, not because of devourer, but because we are children of Abram.

I want to hear what they have to say about these curses from 'Daddy G.O'.

No matter how pro tithe brethren deny it, the fuel for the tithe doctrine comes from the curses of devourer in Mal 3:8-12. Adeboye just confirmed it. All these Abram's example is just a smokescreen.

But I have news for them

Gal 3:13-14
'Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith

For those who want to remain under a curse from which Christ has set us free, they can go ahead. As for me I choose the free gift of the Spirit and I'll continue to preach and scream same.

Thank God for his mercies.