₦airaland Forum

[quote author=fr_evangel]Amen.
Thank you sir.
You would be amazed how many friends, preachers and ministry founders who no longer tell their members to tithe or sow special seeds to "connect to their anointing".
I know a pastor that does not do any from of giving in his church. If you decide to support the work, he would accept, but it must be your decision and choice. If he teaches giving, it is about how you should help the poor, needy, fatherless, widows, and probably the church if you so which. He doesn't teach that your giving connects you to any form of "anointing" for breakthrough etc.
I have minister friends who have returned seeds to people and asked them to go share with their families and others.
One thing I know is that there is a remnant which will not bow to mammon![/quote]My brother. Pls I'll send you a pm now. Need to find out something from you.Pls check your mail box.

Thanks

Elliotwiz1: obviously the apostles of old recieved tithes! It's not on record, but It's very possible...most of them were evangelist who go about from places to places...e.g paul...he must have been funded through tithes...do you know the tithes you give in your churches are used to fun missionaries? I can tell you about that in my church...that is what it is used, to support those missionaries, to feed their families, so when you take it away What're you trying to do?

My dear, the bolded is a lie maybe not a deliberate one. None of the apostles were LEVITES . In fact Paul you mentioned was clearly said to be from tribe if Benjamin and they all knew the law of Moses if you do not.

The law clearly said ONLY LEVITES qualify to collect tithes so pls get that clear.

Just thought I should clear that point for you

[quote author=fr_evangel]Let me clearly state here.
Some of those who do not believe in tithing, once did, but after "personal study" got the correct understanding of it.
Also, many of us would be receiving tithes now if we still believe. It's not about not wanting to pay tithe, as I personally would be receiving tithe as a pastor by now. It would have been an easy and sure way to raise funds for "the work".
Get it?
I am a preacher, I preached tithing, sacrificial giving, first fruits, seed connection (or whatever you want to call it) etc.
I am a giver till date, and ardent one at that. The Bible teaches us to be givers, but also shows how giving should be done.
Many of the things I preached back then were mostly "cut and paste" messages.
I listened to other preachers, including my senior pastors in the same ministry, and then preach same. I didn't have to study the bible for myself.
In fact I was taught not to stress myself trying to study for myself. I was taught to just listen and teach, that they have made it simple for me. etc. A perfect recipe for deviating from the written word.[/quote]I'm thrilled a pastor can be this honest to admit his own errors and make corrections.

God bless you sir and empower you more and more for the work of the ministry.

ashieduplus: If he quotes Matthew 23 vs 23, ask him:
7. If he is a pharisee?
8. Whether Jesus had died already when He made the statement.
9. After Jesus' ressurrection, were tithes mentioned again as specific instructions to the body of christ?
10. Where tthes were equated with money in the scriptures?
11. Why wasn't it required in Acts 15?
Ask him for scriptural answers o. Don't let him deceive you with testimonies. EVen babalawo adherents have theirs...

Had to laugh at the bolded. In fact not only babalawos, my Eckanker colleague always has one good tale or another to tell and I'm sure Muslims, atheists etc too will have something to say if you ask them

jambogini: Please list the churches or congregations aside from Jehovah's Witness that dont pay tithe, i do like to visit such congregations.

One that is visible in all states of the federation is Church of Christ. the branches are called congregations and operate independent of one another without a central G.O. I'm not a member but i attend bible studies there sometimes.

I know like 2 more but they are not well spread.

cheers

Bidam: You error knows no bound..No one is claiming sound bible knowledge here except YOU. i ASK QUESTIONS BECAUSE I WANT TO LEARN not TO WIN AN ARGUMENT JUST LIKE YOU.

at the bolded, Really??

wish you luck in your learning my bro

cheers

Pistolx: from my observation all churches in nigeria ask for tithe,may u pple shuld open ur church dat dey dnt pay tithes and lets see how u wil cope@op

you'll be shocked you just uttered an untrue statement.

Not all Churches in Nigeria collect tithes

italo: ^^^

Is there any point trying to convince plaetton this isnt true Christianity?

Maybe it wont convince him but at least let me put it down in black and white that not all Christians think or behave that way

[quote author=fr_evangel]Thank you for this, I was coming to that. The reason many pay tithe is that they don't really know what it is.
If you understand tithing, you would understand it is not even a Christian practice but purely Judaism![/quote]Thanks my brother. Its clearly Judaism but will greed allow our men of God to be honest about it?

@Plaetton

This is sad but i want to tell you that this is not the true face of Christianity. These types might be in the majority but God hardly works with a majority. Even after 3 years of ministry, Christ only had 120 disciples waiting in the upper room. That is a sign about the few that really seek God. Forget the crowd at the business centers we call churches today.

The greedy and covetous are making the headlines and lining their pockets but they only profess Christ by mouth but have denied him a long time ago with their actions.

There are a few who have refused to be compromised. They might not be visible to you but they are real and exist.

I hope the charlatans like this continue to be exposed every day.

Cheers bro

baiem: Pro & anti Tithe: Please Did Jesus Christ, Peter & other Apostles, Paul and early Christians pay tithe?

emphatic NO for the following reasons

1. Jesus grew up a carpenter hence doesn't qualify to pay tithe and he was from the tribe of Judah thus disqualifying him from receiving tithe

2. Most of the apostles were fishermen hence disqualified from paying tithe but more importantly, none was recorded to be from the tribe of Levi hence unqualified to collect tithe. Infact the most prolific writer of the new testament, apostle Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin therefore clearly and unambiguously unqualified to collect tithes

3. If Jewish Christians continued tithing, the only group qualified to receive it were the Levites functioning at the temple and these were fully practicing their ancient religion of Judaism which was antagonistic of Christ in his earthly ministry and had nothing whatsoever to do with the church started in Jerusalem.

This would explain why the early converts to Christianity sold whatever they had freely without compulsion and brought to the apostles for distribution to the needy among them. It had NOTHING to do with tithing. This is the freewill giving mentioned all over the new testament which we ought to live by.

Tom29: mumu. GOD SAYS IF U LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENT. d same devil will soon beat u like a cow afterall his teling u not to pay tithe. keep robbing GOD

Are u the devil's mouthpiece? Is your devil so weak that you have to defend him?

Pls tell your master a blood bought child of God declared you and him too small to interfere with my life.

How many commandments of God are written in the old testament are you keeping?

routsz: knowingly bringing yourself under d curse of God and its not scary? the devil with 400 horns can't stop me tithing. (no offence pls)

eyaa.....

I'm operating on a higher pedestal than the devil and devourers can ever reach.I'm seated far above principalities and powers so which empty devil are you talking about?

Christ has also saved me from the curse of the law when he hung and died on the cross so curses too can go to hell

I was like you too once but now i'm free of all such fears. I don't have the spirit of fear but of love,of power and of a sound mind my bro. Tell the devil if you know him to try another tactic. This fear factor was buried a long time ago

cheers

routsz: Huh . . has anyone stopped tithing? That's scary . .

hmmm.....the usual fears

My bro, some people have never tithed in their whole life and they are doing very well.

It's not scary, Its just the way our Churches have made it look and what you've been conditioned to believe. There are also those who are scared of breaking the sabbath and those who can't think of wearing any thing other than white sultana to their place of worship.

Free your mind. God is more interested in you than any other thing

Cheers

iboman: At first I tithed religiously, then I studied the bible more and felt the tithe teaching was somehow wrong especially as church workers do not enjoy the benefit of tithe. But I didn't have the boldness to question what a MAN OF GOD has uttered though pondered over it severally. Then I discovered something that made me conclude these so called men of God are mostly ordinary humans. They quarrel among themselves, up to the stage of calling names and enmity, they fight over church money, sharing formula, politicking as to where to be sent; they break away for no just reason to form their own churches, they build schools from everybody's contributions and then make them very expensive etc. All these made me thinking: these are mere men! And if mere men, I can question what they do. Then I saw in the bible that we should question all spirits and I saw John 1:12 that by merely believing in Christ, I become a son of God, and therefore a heir to God's kingdom (Rom. 8:16-17) and God allows his sun (rain) to shine on both d good and the bad. I came to realize that I'm not under any curse once I'm in Christ even though unpleasant things may come. To cut a long story short, I started living my own life as a Christian instead of the life as dictated by a man of God, I research into the bible more and ponder more.

My Conclusion: offering as a Christian should be voluntary, not obligatory. Christians who see others with divergent opinions (such as this issue of not paying tithe) as being used by the devil are certainly not Spirit-filled as they claim because a spirit filled-person will not say such. A spirit filled person is cautious of uttering negative statements as admonished in Jude. He's not concerned with mundane things but how to be more and more like Christ. This is the point of departure of modern day Christianity - our crave for money and living in fleshly affluence is beguiling us. Peace be to all of us.

1million likes.

I love your treatise. I pray more of God's grace on your life

emmog25: Woe unto you! I see a great reproach on u... Please seek more of jesus... Becuz the storm is just starting... Becuase u know the truth about God already.

haba!!! because he stopped tithing you're declaring woe? Is that the worst sin in your opinion? If you hear he commited murder, what will you say?

This is serious

dbride: This^^^^^^ only elaborates the question by the OP, good but WHAT HAVE YOU SUFFERED FOR CHRIST?

yeah you're right. I only tried to put the OP in proper perspective. I have no tales to tell. Even if i think i've passed through anything resembling suffering for Christ, when i hear some other believer's story, i just have to pocket mine for it pales in comparison.

idumuose: Still waiting for answer

happy sunday bro. Pls we all are learning so i dont see anybody as an authority on the word of God. We'll have to search the bible together to understand these things better.

Trust to make a contribution in due course my bro.

Patience is a virtue.....

Cheers

This is one issue i'm not 100% clear about. see the verse below

Eph 1:13
'In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,'

What can unseal someone God has sealed with his Holy Spirit? I am an advocate of Grace is not License and i make no apologies about that. But then, what about sins you do not even know you commit? I have no examples to give but are we sure all acts of unrighteousness were written down for us?

Also the issue of Demas that alexleo brought up gives me some thought, but it said Demas went away from Paul, Did that verse tell us he left the faith? Does leaving Paul translate to leaving the faith?

would really like to hear more on this issue

One of the guys on my team is a JW. We've become very close recently because of bible study and sundry issues. We do not agree on a number of things but i must commend the depth to which they go in bible studies. He makes sure i get all the literature they produce every month and i actually find them informative and educative.

In fact i have here a flash drive he gave me containing some videos of some of their teachers. i'll find time to watch them. I told him we used to call them Jehovah Wickedness when i was growing up . We still crack jokes about it today.

I was brought up to avoid them at all cost but since i started searching scriptures with my own mind, i welcome them anytime they come calling just like i patiently listen to practitioners of eastern Spirituality too.

They have the right to approach me with their doctrine and i also reserve the right to accept or not so no quarrel at all.

shdemidemi: Thanks candour for the clarification..I agree we have been bought with a price and I also believe there are two slave masters namely "sin" (the devil) and righteousness (Christ)'.

Romans 6
But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

From my understanding, I believe the price was paid to our old master (devil) so he can't lay a claim on us forever cos we are under a new master.

The bolded is my belief and understanding too. I would like to learn if there exists another interpretation anyway

cheers bro

anibi9674: malachi 3 was addressed 2 d jews first nd also to the gentile nations dat will accept christ as their lord nd personal saviour. As a gentile xtian r u suppose 2 obey or disobey d ten commandment of GOD since it was directed 2 d jews ?

what about the sabbath day? its also a part of the 10 commandments. Do you observe it the way God told Moses and the Jews to observe it?

What about the other ordinances like a woman not going to the sanctuary when she has a discharge e.g menstruation and a man also prohibited from the sanctuary for a specific period because of seminal discharge?

What about not wearing a dress made from linen and wool together? or avoidance of planting 2 types of fruit on the same piece of land? Do you keep all these as well?

Mal 4:4
'Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which i commanded unto him in Horeb for all Isreal, with the statutes and judgements.'

Do you obey the above verse in the same Malachi from which you got Mal 3?

No human likes to suffer actually and we don't have to go looking for suffering to prove our Christianity. That would also be self righteousness and trying to earn favour with God through works.

However like you opined, Christians should not think becoming a Christian entitles you to a rose petaled pathway. Persecution will come, you'll be denied luxuries and rights to spite you and your faith and we are asked to bear these deprivations patiently like people who surely have a better hope.

Money, cars, Jets affluence doesn't validate your Christianity because Atheists, Muslims etc can boast of more. So when a man starts telling you how close to God he is because he has an abundance of this world's goods, then you know he's far from the Christianity described in the bible. Riches does not define a Christian just as poverty does not prove a good Christian. A life that is edifying to both believers and unbelievers alike is the way and we'll do well to take heed.

While we work to make a better life for ourselves and family, lets have eternity in focus. God has promised not to leave nor forsake us. He's promised to meet our necessities. Let us be therewith content for that is Godliness.

God bless the OP

Bidam: There is no seller..Adam sold himself into SIN and fell short of God's glory. The right question is why would Christ die for the ungodly?

For there to be a purchase, there has to be a seller and a buyer. For there to be a ransome, there must be an exchange. you give something to ransome someone or another thing and when you give, somebody must receive so the question is very valid.

I'm interested in this teaching as well as i need to clear up somethings i might be confused about.

stevewale: Happy Sunday @ y'all

Pls its often observed that all churches preach that tithe MUST be 10% of one's income as stated in the bible. If someone decides that he/she would be sacrificing some certain amount of his/her income as tithe every month (thou not upto the 10% - i.e 5k out of 80k monthly salary), it is tagged to be disobedience; but if someone decides to be paying 20% of his/her income (I.e 16k out of 80k monthly salary) its not seen as disobedience? Pls what's your take on this; is the two not disobedience?

Of course It's a clear sin in the eyes of the Mosaic law of tithing.

Tithe is the tenth of farm and animal produce. No more No less.

what a message!! what a reminder!! you've just brought sunday service into my office now as i'm currently on an assignment now and can't fellowship with other believers.

It's all about Christ really. Nothing about trying to maintain particular laws of Moses. Christ works in me to fulfill the purposes of God. No boasting, no sense of accomplishment because when my works are weighed on their own without Christ, they are found seriously wanting and lacking in substance. Christ works what he wills through me and i'm grateful for the opportunity.

I have accepted his gift of righteousness for all my goodness are filthy rags even in my own eyes.

God bless you my bro

Bidam: You rants here is pointless. Paul could have used the words of Christ in the scripture you quoted yet he never did.He quoted the Law of Moses .Now could you please try and answer my question:Why would PAUL quote the mosaic laws since it was done away with?

dont worry Bidam. i've always told you before and i repeat again, It's not for your benefit i discuss here. you claim sound knowledge of the bible so do with it as you deem fit. It's for other Christians who have questions that i engage you and others. They will see the bible being opened up and they'll get a clearer picture enabling them understand the bible better and i'm glad its yielding fruits.

If you want to see scriptures, scroll through the thread again to refresh your memory. they are over plenty on here

Bidam: You even made it much more worse..Since the same Paul said ALL scriptures is inspired by God for doctrine.
Now my question again:Why would PAUL quote the mosaic laws since it was done away with. Try again this time using scripture to support your argument not your human reasoning

you see the problem? after you will say its not because of commandment you tithe. how do you apply the scriptures that say a woman should not come into the sanctuary when she's having a discharge(menstruating) for doctrine? or a man with a seminal discharge is unclean for the sanctuary too? or the one that you shouldn't wear a dress made from linen and wool together? how do you apply such to your Christianity today?

Old testament sanctuary ministers lived off tithes and sacrifices offered. New testament or church age ministers live off freewill, non compulsive giving. Why did Christ forget to instruct the 70 he sent out to collect tithes? or you think we can squeeze tithe into his charge to them in Luke 10:1-8? or when he sent the 12 out in Matt 10:1-14?

You, image and others always claim its not a commandment so why allude to the clear commandment of the old testament to enforce it? You were active on the tithes and offerings as a principle thread where you and others claim its only because of Abraham's example but here you are seeking Mosaic help again. Paul used an analogy and i tried to break it down again. when he said circumcise your hearts, did he mean to apply razor blade? so why do you interpret this to mean an exact adherence to 10% like that of Mosaic law?

I don't understand you walahi.....i don't

Bidam: You re dodging the point.Why should Paul quote the mosaic laws if it was done away with?

Bidam, its like this. Imagine the discussion below

Bdam: Candour, why are you so lazy and unserious with your physics classes? can't you see the way Olaa an arts student is proficient in his mastery of history?

Candour: Daddy(Bidam, but you are not my daddy o ), should i now drop Physics and take up history to show my seriousness?

Bidam: i'm not asking you to drop Physics and take up history. i only ask you to emulate Olaa'a seriousness. you'll also be successful in your physics as he his with history

Candour: ok Daddy. i'll adjust

Now, does Candour need to adopt history before he can be termed a serious student? the answer is no. Physics is a totally different subject with different style. Bidam only wants him to adopt the same sense of urgency and seriousness that his friend Olaa uses to get results. Candour could decide on 2hours reading per day while Olaa spends 5 hours. Candour could use 10hrs. whatever he uses, his Dad wants him serious.dats all

Bidam, that is what that verse by Paul meant. He only used the analogy of tithes of the Mosaic law to teach a truth about making provisions for ministers.

I hope i made sense

Bidam: 1 Corinthians 9:13-14

Amplified Bible (AMP)

13 Do you not know that those men who are employed in the services of the temple get their food from the temple? And that those who tend the altar share with the altar [in the offerings brought]?

14 [On the same principle]the Lord directed that those who publish the good news (the Gospel) should live (get their maintenance) by the Gospel.

Let them keep fooling themselves.

See the bolded. You're right they should live off the gospel. The problem is why tithes? Paul drew an analogy from the old testament and Jesus in sending the 72 out, showed how its to be done. Except you can prove the 72 collected tithes on their journey, then all pastors who insist on tithes for their maintenance are grossly manipulating scripture.

The gospel is free and so also the giving in this gospel is of freewill. Pastors should be sustained by this gospel which is free in all ramifications.

That is my plea and its fully supported by Christ.

Image123: You have to resort to bitterness, false accusations, name calling and being a busy body. You even hoped to turn a thread about death and burial into a tithe-talk thread. You did not use to be like this, you need to take the chill pill. Even your mentors are not carrying it on their head like you. Take a trip to calvary.

Yes you're right. I always tried to avoid your inane arguments but I realised you people don't play fair. You'll stop at nothing to keep up your lies and you, image, are a major culprit. ThankGod every poster on that thread you mentioned are not obsessed with tithes like you so they were not bothered because they understood it was just for illustration. So relax and take a chill pill.

Do you even know what the word mentor is? You think its measured by age or amount of time spent on NL? Grow up and learn some English words. If your mentors are the tithe collectors who have spent longer time defending your tithe scams, then you need help. I don't choose mentors like that. There are deeper considerations.

I'm at calvary bro and I saw no tithe collection basket there. I pray you get there too.

Image123: Didn't even read what 'your fellas' posted, not to mention pointing out false claims. i've said i do not have such time for now. i've made detailed explanations in the past and anyone is free to go read my views. There are more pressing and important things begging my attention at present, not that i mean to belittle or insult anyone. My point REMAINS that paying/giving of tithes can be done by christians and should not be condemned. Jesus or the Holy Spirit never condemned it neither did they forget. i've also shown how some early believers observed temple rites. My point is not for you or anyone to go observe temple rites, but that some early christians did and there is no condemnation for it or a fall from grace or whatever else we are being threatened with.

You are very economical with the truth. When you quite Mal 3:8-12, what do you hope to achieve? Is that a commendation for those who don't tithe? See your reply to Debo, is that not a stylish way to tell him he's a sinner for not keeping a supposed commandment for Christians?

Were u not on the planet when Olaa and His friends were busy promoting hell videos that showed non tithers as getting the worst punishment in hell?

Did you not see Adeboye's open heavens write up on devourer for Christians? Stop pretending you don't condemn non tithers.

Stop defending tithe as a commandment for Christians and these arguments will stop. You and others fan the embers with your hypocricy. Pay if you must but stop calling it a commandment or rule for Christians because that is a big LIE.