₦airaland Forum

CAPTIVATOR:
Am calling on you professed christians to come out and defend urselves .

While I was a kid, I was made to bliv that ALL righteous persons go to heaven while the sinners go to hellfire ! This is made possible because humans are said to possess a ghost within them .

BUT THE FAULTY CHRISTIANITY will still tell u that Jesus died for your sins , accepted ... My reader , there is a problem here If u dont see it, I will help u remove that religious spectacle .

Goliath, philistines , sons of Amon, Sons Of Edom and many other countries that are not isrealite WORSHIP IDOLS and thus when they die they will be judged and will go to hellfire

QUESTION: WHY DID JESUS CAME TO DIE FOR OUR SINS AGAIN ? AFTRALL PEOPLE ARE ALREADY GOING TO HELL ?.

ON the other hand ... Abraham , Noah, noahs three sons and their wives , Sarah, Abigeal , Jonathan son of Saul are good people , when they died they have go to heaven.

QUESTION: OF WHAT PURPOSE IS JESUS DEATH SINCE PEOPLE ARE MAKING HEAVEN WITHOUT HIM ?

Faulty! ...... Its either the ghost doctrine is a LIE or Jesus Death is useless to Mankind . ONE of these two doctrines is a fabrication .

The question is which ?

bingbagbo:
1 Corinthians 1:24

but unto those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of YHWH and the wisdom of YHWH.

bingbagbo:
2 Corinthians 3:5-6

5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

WE ARE TALKING RHEMA , YOU ARE HERE TALKING LOGOS

johnw74:
There is One God the Father

jizzison:
You shuld b able 2 get a ps2 for #10,000 wich includes d console,d cable wich u'll connect frm d console 2 d tv & a pad...Bt u'll hav 2 get a memory card & install some games wich myt cost u extra few naira,so we're talking abt #12,000 in total....All of dis can happen if u get it in d market bt if its hand 2 hand its gonna cost u less.

Emusan:
My response to one of your brother pathetic questions is enough for you.



Imaging now it doesn't matter if the form never close to the ORIGINAL NAME,

Emusan:
@bold-evidence is there that you know the truth but just decided to bend it, how can a true believer MISTAKENLY call another name instead of the name Jehovah? In fact this is enough to show people that you're agent of darkness because we were told that Stephen was FULL WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT before that incident, so you mean HOLY SPIRIT confuse Stephen to do the WRONG THING

So why did Stephen change from calling upon God to Lord Jesus when he already saw Jehovah?

This verse is reach enough to show true believers that Jesus was PRAYED TO "And they stoned Stephen, [size=14pt]calling upon God,[/size] and saying, [size=14pt]Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.[/size]

Stephen first called ON GOD then the writer shows who he called on as Lord Jesus when the writer wrote AND SAYING, Lord Jesus...

Emusan:
So the way you call on the name Jehovah is now different from the way you call on Jesus' name. See lie from the pit of hell.

Please the verse in reference here is Romans 10:13 "And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved" this verse is talking about the Son FOR SALVATION.



When you can't listen to yourself.

The point is which NAME are will to call on FOR US TO BE SAVED?

So you know this and you still say that we can't pray to Jesus. Keep them coming.



So which NAME GIVEN under heaven for us to call on? because from here everything is done in the NAME of Jesus.



Imaging calling on the NAME of Jesus is doing the Father's will whereas calling on the name Jehovah means praying to Him.

Just listen to yourself the way you're twisting the scripture.

Stephen while was stoning to death called on the name of Jesus, does it mean Stephen is doing the will of the Father at that time?

Emusan:
So if YAHWEH not the CORRECT pronunciation then NWT is lying it says "RESTORE the DIVINE NAME to its rightful place in the English text."



Disappoint me So the word he FORMULATED is it not the ROOT word where Jehovah was derived? Are you saying Jehovah is now different from the word he formulated?



Now that Hebrew scholars admitted that YAHWEH is closer to ORIGINAL Hebrew language and the WORD where Jehovah was derived from never has any FORM IN HEBREW and JWs knew about this, HAS JWS RESTORED THE DIVINE NAME?
Jehovah is not the ENGLISH PARALLELISM of the Hebrew YHWH which is the point here.



The truth you people are avoiding is that the name Jehovah has been wrongly used WHICH JWs KNEW ABOUT but purposely chose it because PEOPLE'S FAMILIARITY WITH IT yet they claimed they have RESTORED THE DIVINE NAME.

Lastly, we are not saying everybody should be using the name YAHWEH as it is in Hebrew but the name which all languages will be derived and pronouncing MUST come from YAHWEH which is more closer to the ORIGINAL NAME.

As it is now, the word where Jehovah was derived from NEVER has any form or CLOSE to the ORIGINAL name which you and your organization knew about that YAHWEH is more closer to ORIGINAL HEBREW than from the WORD formed by a Catholic monk-Raymundus Martini in Latin where Jehovah was derived in English.

TRUE or FALSE?

Emusan:
You're wrong Joel is a prophecy that people will call on the name of God.

But you agree that the context of Romans is SPEAKING ABOUT THE SON which means it's the SON that we will now call upon which is just another way of saying Jesus is Jehovah according to that verse.



The word 'OTHER' doesn't appear in that verse it was translators insertion.
So the name will are given to call UPON IS JESUS CHRIST, do you call on this name as the early Christians do?



You've shot yourself in the leg @bolded, so if true Christians CALL ON THE NAME OF THE SON, Jesus! which is true according to the scriptures why your organization says we are not to pray to Jesus?

Maybe you will tell us that CALL ON THE NAME OF JESUS IS NOT THE SAME AS PRAYING TO HIM, then I will ask what does it mean when people CALL ON THE NAME OF JEHOVAH?



If this is true, have you called on THE NAME OF THE SON as early Christians did for you to be saved?

See the logic behind Romans 10:13;
*Everyone will call on the name of Jehovah Joel 2:32
*The WHOLE CONTEXT OF Romans 10 is ABOUT THE SON in reference to Joel 2:32
*Then, The Son is the one WHO EVERYONE will CALL ON.

Emusan:
I can see your gross misunderstanding of this thread.
Get this now:

JEHOVAH was translated from a word FORMULATED by a Catholic monk-Raymundus Martini in Latin which Hebrew scholars agree that the WORD never has any FORM IN HEBREW which Watchtower Society knew about with this statement from them ""While inclining to view the pronunciation [size=14pt]"Yah.weh" as the more correct way, we have retained the form "Jehovah..."[/size]

Which means JWs knew that 'Jehovah' is not the more correct name BUT DELIBERATELY used Jehovah just because "...people's familiarity with it" yet they claim to have RESTORE the DIVINE NAME to its rightful place in the English text. It has been done, using the commonly ACCEPTED English form "Jehovah"

Now if JWs claimed to restore the DIVINE NAME of God and they knew that Yahweh is more close to YHWH and choose to use Jehovah just because people's familiarity with it, have they restored the DIVINE NAME?



The problem you are overlooking is the ORIGIN of the word Jehovah, the word that Jehovah was translated into English was formed by a Catholic monk-Raymundus Martini which in noway having any form in any word ever used in Hebrew.

Can you get it now?

So the purpose of this thread on point one is the claim of JWs "Therefore, the foremost feature of this translation is the RESTORATION of the DIVINE NAME to its rightful place in the English text..." claiming to RESTORE the DIVINE NAME and deliberately used Jehovah after they knew "Yah.weh" as the more correct way..." proved that they have not restore anything and they are using wrong name which they also put their SALVATION.

So should we call on Jehovah for our salvation or other name? This leads us to the second point on this thread.

Emusan:
Yet you can pick from it.



Adam means Man...does the A needs to be appeared again?
In translation what the translators are looking for is parallel or equivalent word.



Of course Jehovah is being used today but the point here is the claim that JWs made "While inclining to view the pronunciation [size=14pt]"Yah.weh" as the more correct way, we have retained the form "Jehovah..."[/size]

This is where the problem lies the purpose of using Jehovah in NWT is "Therefore, the foremost feature of this translation is [size=14pt]the RESTORATION of the DIVINE NAME to its rightful place in the English text..."[/size]

Now if JWs truly want to RESTORE the DIVINE NAME and as well knew that YAHWEH is more correct in pronunciation than Jehovah why can't they hold to the truth of using YAHWEH so that people will know they truly mean what they claimed? But they went and used Jehovah just because "...people's familiarity with it" yet they want to restore the DIVINE NAME of God.



Keep your head up man...from what I posted from that link we read "...Thus, the word “Jesus” has parallel meaning with Savior...and “Jesus is the common Greek form of the Hebrew name Joshua." So NT was written in Greek and Jesus is a Greek form of Iesous. That's why no Scholar agree that the Hebrew name YHWH ever appeared in the Greek manuscripts which JWs have inserted into their own version.

Translation is based on equivalent/parallel word because no word you can find in its original language with another language.

You can go back to the OP to see where I said the usage of Jehovah in KJV have been criticized by Bruce Metzger whose JWs always quote his work.

Emusan:
I'm not surprise since you've been deceived beyond measure.



This is where we're going, now that you agree that the context of Romans 10 is about THE SON which name should we call on for us to be saved?

Remember there's no name under heaven given among men to be saved apart from the name Jesus.



You said the name of the Father must be SANCTIFIED not that WE SHOULD CALL on the name TO BE SAVED.

There's different between them, so don't derail this thread stick to the OP.

Emusan:
For your information we are not talking about Language difference here.

Jehovah is formulated by Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk Catholicism whereas Yahweh is closed to original form of YHWH.

Jesus on the other hand is like Yahweh because is very closed to original form of Yeshua-Hebrew, I-e-sous-Greek, Latin-Iesus according to:

"The Oxford English Dictionary on Historical Principles (Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1933), tells us that the word Jesus came into the English language from Middle English, adapted from the Latin Iesus, which in turn was adapted from the Greek Iesous. This in turn was adapted from the Hebrew or Aramaic word Yeshua or Yehoshua. The earlier root was Joshua. This dictionary goes on to explain that the word Joshua derived from the Jah of Jahveh, meaning that “Jehovah is salvation.” [size=14pt]Thus, the word “Jesus” has parallel meaning with Savior.[/size] Dr. David Flusser of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem puts it simply: [size=14pt]“Jesus is the common Greek form of the Hebrew name Joshua.”[/size] (Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, Ltd., 1971, 10:10.) https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1984/04/jesus-the-christ-the-words-and-their-meaning?lang=eng

Now compare this with Jehovah [size=14pt]"The form "Jehovah" is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word .... (1) The word "Jehovah" does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew.[/size] (2) The use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom the true God had to be distinguished, began to be discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church."---The New Revised Standard Version Bible, Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989, To The Reader

So Jehovah isn't in any form closed to pronunciation the DIVINE NAME even your watchtower recognized this that's why they can say "...Hebrew scholars generally favor "Yahweh" as the most likely pronunciation." Aid to Bible Understanding, Watchtower Bible And Tract Society, 1971, pp. 884, 885

You have to agree that you're not truly using the right name of God.

Emusan:
Don't attack strawman here Mr man. You just prove what the OP was saying ""While inclining to view the pronunciation [size=14pt]"Yah.weh" as the more correct way,[/size] we have retained the form "Jehovah" because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century."

So JWs agree that Yahweh is THE MORE CORRECT pronunciation but they decided to CHOSE the one FORMULATED after 12th century than the more corrected one, how absurd is that?

Emusan:
Your case is pathetic, who says Rom 10:13 is not the direct quotation of Joel 2:32?

Mind you the importance of this is that Jehovah's witness say "There are verses in the [size=14pt]Hebrew Scriptures about Jehovah that are quoted in the "New Testament" in a context speaking about the Son.[/size] (Isa. 40:3--Matt. 3:3--John 1:23; [size=14pt]Joel 2:32--Rom. 10:13[/size]; Ps. 45:6, 7--Heb. 1:8, 9) This is understandable, for Jesus was the Father's foremost representative." The Watchtower, May 1, 1978, p. 12

So if Rom 10:13 is a quotation from Joel 2:32 and speaks about the Son that means Rom 10:13 is talking about Jesus Christ [b]but NEWT rendered it as "And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved"

So what Jehovah's witness trying to say here is that Jesus is Jehovah.

johnw74:
If you don't see written in the Bible the exact quote "Jesus is the true God" then you don't believe it,
are you 8 years old?
jw doesn't know the Bible, is certain.

Emusan:
2. Salvation is Found in Only One Name!

Should a person call on Jehovah for salvation, which no one ever heard of until the 1270, or should he call on a different name? Let's allow the Apostle Paul to answer this for us, as he too refers to Joel 2:32. Paul wrote:

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile ­ the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, [size=14pt]"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved"[/size] (Rom. 10:9-13)

In Rom. 10:9-13, Paul explicitly stated: (1) that Jesus is Lord; (2) Jesus richly blesses all who call on him; and (3) that these truths refer back to Joel 2:32 in that same passage where YHWH is found in the Hebrew, but here applies them to Jesus! Either the Apostle Paul is wrong or the Watchtower Society is wrong! They can't both be right, since Paul taught we are to call on JESUS for salvation and the Watchtower, in contradistinction, is teaching we are to call on a hybrid name for God which didn't even exist for 13 centuries - Jehovah! By the way, the NWT is not consistent at Rom. 10:9 with the Greek word by rendering it Jesus, unlike they did at Rev. 4:11, where it is also used and translated Jehovah. If they had been consistent at Rom. 10:9, their NWT would read Jesus is Jehovah, which they would never allow.

Shockingly, the Watchtower Society contradicts their own teaching about Joel 2:32 and Rom. 10:13 and their own NWT in the latter reference where they elsewhere write about the Son:

"There are verses in the Hebrew Scriptures [size=14pt]about Jehovah that are quoted in the "New Testament" in a context speaking about the Son.[/size] (Isa. 40:3--Matt. 3:3--John 1:23; [size=14pt]Joel 2:32--Rom. 10:13;[/size] Ps. 45:6, 7--Heb. 1:8, 9) This is understandable, for Jesus was the Father's foremost representative." The Watchtower, May 1, 1978, p. 12

Ironically, the NWT rendered Rom 10:13 as "Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved"

Now to JWs which NAME shall we call on if TRULY Romans 10:13 is about Jesus Christ?



Http://www.ovrlnd.com/Cults/NWT.html

Emusan:
I'm going to raise two crucial points on this thread.

NWT---New World Translation is the Jehovah's witness version of the Holy Bible.

1. The Usage of Jehovah in the NWT

In the NWT, the Bible of the Jehovah's Witnesses, we read the following:

"Therefore, the foremost feature of this translation is the RESTORATION of the DIVINE NAME to its rightful place in the English text. It has been done, using the commonly ACCEPTED English form "Jehovah" 6,973 times in the Hebrews Scriptures and 237 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures." NWT p. 6 (color, underline, capital & bold-mine)

Why isn't the NWT consistent to use Jehovah every time Lord is found? Their reasonings are as follows:

"By determining where the inspired Christian writers have quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures. [size=14pt]Then he must refer back to the original to locate whether the divine name appears there.[/size] This way he can determine the identity to give to ky'ri.os and the.os' and he can then clothe them with personality. Realizing that this is the time and place for it, we have followed this course in rendering our version of the Christian Greek Scriptures." KIT, pp. 18,19 (color, bold & italic mine--for anywhere they appear)

Jehovah is Not the More Correct Way!

Since one of the outstanding features of the NWT is their abundant usage of the word Jehovah, how can they elsewhere admit that YAHWEH is the more correct way to render God's name?

"While inclining to view the pronunciation [size=14pt]"Yah.weh" as the more correct way,[/size] we have retained the form [size=14pt]"Jehovah" because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century." Ibid., p. 23

Why then did the NWT forfeit accuracy to use the word Jehovah, which began to be used in the 14th century? [size=14pt]Their answer is because of "...people's familiarity with it..."[/size] That is another way of saying that they have upheld the traditions of man's inventions since the 14th century at the expense of truth and accuracy, which they knew about.

Notice again how many times this was done in the NWT:
"It has been done, using the commonly accepted English form "Jehovah" 6,973 times in the Hebrews Scriptures and 237 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures." NWT p. 6

How can the NWT claim that Jehovah is the restoration of the divine name to its rightful place in the English text, since they ope

johnw74:
You have been shown the Truth many times, you reject it.

The Word is with God and the Word "IS" God
The word became Jesus Christ.
You don't know the Truth because you reject the Truth.
And you go round and around in circles.






Ha ha, I should say to you, get a Bible, an unchanged Bible.

LOOK AT what jehova witness put in their own Adjusted bible conscerning mat 4=7
Jesus said to him: again it is written You must not put Jehovah ur GOD to the test

nutarious:
WHY would the bible say baptise in the name of the FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT IN MATTHEW 28=19,could this be said that it implies 3 GOD

ITS straight, baptise in the name of the father, son , and holy spirit..................................................................

a prayer to any of them is same....................................what other proof do u want, hang on to JW.................thats ur right..........

but dont confuse people....................................thats ANTI-CHRIST........................

JESUS WAS seprated briefly from the other persons (the father and holy spirit) and so becomes less as of the time he is in flesh...........................................................because if he were to be fully in person same as the GOD he

nutarious
He has to give glory to God cos people he is teaching has a mentality about God that he is not ready to change.

So what he taught them is to pray to God

He said I will come tomorrow

johnw74:
Lets see how your way works out.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was "a" god.

Your way we have God, and "a" god, that makes God being two Gods instead of two persons.

But God is One God and not two gods,
also God is the One True God, and so cannot be "a" god.

nutarious:
Instead of asking questions when u don't get it u are here saying ftins not worthy of ur mouth.

Jesus told Jews that Abraham is happy he came and what did u think the Jews did, they stoned him. Do u think he would have said I am God? Use ur head, this is wisdom, don't follow script to script follow the script with wisdom.

He has to give glory to God cos people he is teaching has a mentalty about God that he is not ready to change,
So what he taught them is to pray to God.



Now, to the fact, that Jesus said cut ur hand if it make u sin does this statement make u cut ur hand.

He said I will come tomorrow does he mean next day?
He talks in parables and u have to follow his words with guidance cos u could mean it for ur school text or normal words.......