₦airaland Forum

In Surah 38:21-26 we read the following story about King David:

Has the Story of the Disputants reached thee? Behold, they climbed over the wall of the private chamber; When they entered the presence of David, and he was terrified of them, they said: "Fear not: we are two disputants, one of whom has wronged the other: Decide now between us with truth, and treat us not with injustice, but guide us to the even Path. "This man is my brother: He has nine and ninety ewes, and I have (but) one: Yet he says, ‘commit her to my care,’ and is (moreover) harsh to me in speech." (David) said: "He has undoubtedly wronged thee in demanding thy (single) ewe to be added to his (flock of) ewes: truly many are the partners (in business) who wrong each other: Not so do those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and how few are they?" ... and David gathered that We had tried him: he asked forgiveness of his Lord, fell down, bowing (in prostration), and turned (to Allah in repentance). So We forgave him this (lapse): he enjoyed, indeed, a Near Approach to Us, and a beautiful place of (Final) Return. O David! We did indeed make thee a vicegerent on earth: so judge thou between men in truth (and justice): Nor follow thou the lusts (of thy heart), for they will mislead thee from the Path of Allah: for those who wander astray from the Path of Allah, is a Penalty Grievous, for that they forget the Day of Account. (Yusuf Ali's translation)

Is Sura 38:21-26 revealed to Mohammed or it was just Mohammed's brain work?

The next paragraph presents a summary of the story as it is reported in 2 Samuel 11:

David discovers Bathsheba, a beautiful woman and the wife of Uriah, who is currently abroad fighting in David's army. Although David knows that she is married, he sends for her, sleeps with her and she becomes pregnant. David seeks to cover up his sin, and calls Uriah home from the war front, hoping that he would sleep with his wife. However, the plan fails, Uriah is an upright man and refuses to enjoy the company of his wife while his comrades are fighting. Not knowing what else to do, David sends Uriah back to war front and gives instructions to the general that he should place Uriah in the very front lines where he would certainly be killed. This plan succeeds. Uriah dies. Chapter 11 concludes with verse 27:
After the time of mourning was over, David had her brought to his house, and she became his wife and bore him a son. But the thing David had done displeased the LORD.


This background information is completely missing from the Qur'an. We will have to ask: Why? The event that follows after David's adultery and the murder of Uriah, is presented in both books, though with many and considerable differences between the Qur'an and the Bible. The Bible continues with this report:

1 The LORD sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, "There were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. 2 The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, 3 but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him. 4 "Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him." 5 David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, "As surely as the LORD lives, the man who did this deserves to die! 6 He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity." 7 Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 7 I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. 9 Why did you despise the word of the LORD by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. 10 Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.' 11 "This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.' " 13 Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD ." Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the LORD show utter contempt, the son born to you will die." (2 Samuel 12:1-14)
(Continued)..

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[quote author=wirinet post=113325031][/quote]

Truth is that you are just too ignorant to start a discussion with. My 10 year old is far more knowledgeable that you

How did you know that?

He can at least name all the six continents.

I think your both lacking knowledge. There are 7 continents in the world. I've known that since when I was about his age.

He is even aware that fish and other marine creatures came before land animals

That's what the Bible says.

and would never say "when fish first enter water."

No human is above mistake and besides English is not my mother's tongue. I never Yoruba finish sef

You guys attempt to hide your absolute ignorance with religion and dogmas.

Let's see who's ignorant.

I asked you this question;
"If humans evolved from animals-from apes, for example-why is there such a huge gap between the intellectual abilities of humans and those of apes?"
Your reply;

"Humans evolved an enlarged brain,

Sperm whale for example has the largest brain and yet their intellectual abilities is same as other small fishes.
That means that the size of brain doesn't matter.
Pls where'd got all these your assumptions from?

an opposing thumb for making tool and and an upright posture to be able to survive in the hostile savannah of Africa"

Ridiculous
So the people in hostile Savannah of Africa felt like they needed to make tools and they started growing the opposite thumb just like that ROTFLMAO.

Why haven't we been evolving new things since then?
It'd be great if we started evolving wings and fly na

Are you also saying that the human race started in Africa?

FatherOfJesus:
Truth that humans are apes

Truth that you evolved from ape to human

FatherOfJesus:
are you allergic to genuine discuss and the truth?

Truth that your a family of ape?

FatherOfJesus:
So why are deviating from the question?
You don't want to discuss it?

It's pointless.

AntiChristian:
After you cut out all my questions which you can't answer till you die you now want me to answer you right?
Why are you cutting out my response?

If I asked you the same questions about the Qur'an, would you be able to answer them?

I already said you should create a new thread about the questions.

We are talking about Jesus here.

FatherOfJesus:
That's not the question I asked

I know

FatherOfJesus:
So how do you explain fossils, drug resistance, variations, extinction and the radiometric dating evidence?

The funny thing is some scientists do believe in God.

wirinet:
Appeal to ignorance.
We believe living things developed (evolved) from simpler form because that's how everything works in nature. Simplest atom Hydrogen evolved to more complex atoms and the complex atoms evolved to more complex atoms all the way to uranium. Single cells evolved to multicellular organism which further evolved to tissues, organs and systems. Even man made objects like cars, telephones, computers, etc., evolved from simplest forms to the complex forms we have today.
Humans are not said to evolve from apes. Humans are categorised as ape along with gorilla, Bonobos, urangutan and chimpanzees.
Survival.

Lol. This a joke or what?

Cars, phones and computers evolved randomly themselves Abi? Nobody put them together?

Humans evolved an enlarged brain, an opposing thumb for making tool and and an upright posture to be able to survive in the hostile savannah of Africa

ROTFLMAO

Hostile Savannah Africa?
What about other parts of Africa that are not hostile or Savannah, what did they evolve to adapt to their surroundings?
We have like 7 continents in the world today, each region with its unique environment factors, why are people living in these various regions not evolving different things?

They all are said to evolve from a common ancestor.

Where's the testable evidence?

Birds evolved wings and flight, elephants evolved size and strength, other apes evolved strength and powerful long limbs to aid its tree dwelling habitat.
Different species evolve different organs and abilities to suit its survival according to environmental factors.

Oh now I got your points.

When fish first enter water, it couldn't breathe. It had to survive, so it started growing and evolving gills. That's great.

Humans and some animals for example started evolving their teeth do that they could eat. Cool

Before, birds were just like rats with beak but because of environmental factors, they decided to start growing and evolving wings and gbera.

The list goes on and on


"It takes more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in a creator".

[quote author=AntiChristian post=113219860][/quote]

How does this affect anything? Allah is the law giver and He does what He wills.

Yeah that was why I said your god is a god of mistake and re-editing.
If the Koran had already been completed in heaven by your all wise and all knowing Allah , why should some certain verses be abrogated?
Why wasn't everything perfected already

What was he thinking when he was writing the abrogated verses?

What was he doing when Gabriel was revealing them in the first place, knowing that they would be abrogated, probably in coma?

You sure say the Koran no be Mohammed's brain work?

No! Allah is not even a god! And He never makes mistake!

Interesting!
If he ain't a God, then what is he/she?

You are just too good at diverting threads and not answering questions!

You can ask the questions on a new thread.

He does not sleep, rest, repent or regret!

Where exactly in the Koran does it say your god don't sleep, rest, regret or repent?

Had that being true you would have seen where He regretted in the Qur'an.

Because it wasn't mentioned doesn't mean he doesn't regret. You know that right?
Just show me where he made the claim

FatherOfJesus:
really?
I want honest responses

Tell me what you understand by evolution?

The believe that living things developed from other earlier form. Specifically human are said to have evolved from apes.

I thought you guys believe only what you could provide testable evidence for.
Your bigbang and evolution theory will always remain an unprovable fact.

Simple question for you:
If humans evolved from animals-from apes, for example-why is there such a huge gap between the intellectual abilities of humans and those of apes?

FatherOfJesus:
lol, you are funny.
You didn't even want to discuss what I posted. You just wanted what you believe to be true.
Would you like that I make fun of your belief or you discuss genuinely?

Your post was too long so I had to cut most of it. I responded to some part though.

What would you get by doing that?
You can do whatever you want bro.

The theory of bigbang and evolution from ape to human are ridiculous. Only a stupid person would believe that.

FatherOfJesus:
lol, you just want what you believe to be true

One has to be the TRUTH

AntiChristian:
Authentication wise you should know that the Bible failed against the Qu'ran. This is the reason you can't answer all the questions i asked on this thread.
You just believe your Bible in faith with no proof of it's authenticity and reject the Qu'ran without any valid proof.

What do you mean by authenticity?

The nature of the Bible is very different to that of the Koran.
Muslims claim that the Koran contains direct words from their Allah (already written down in heaven) revealed to Mohammed bit by bit.
One thing that surprise me is that at some point Mohammed/Allah had to abrogate some verses. Some verses were completely removed and some were replaced. In some cases, the abrogated and abrogating verses are both present in the Koran.
Isn't your god god of mistake?

treasureessien:
Jesus Christ commands us to be holy n that is exactly wat they do.

What's holiness sister?

wirinet:
So it makes sense that a certain humanoid called God happened randomly and then created life systematically?
Something must have come from something lifeless to kick-start life or existence, whether it's God, the universe itself or some other phenomenon. Another theory worth considering is the universe has no beginning or ending.
Having said all these, the whole thing is irrelevant to me. Life exist and I am alive and I am trying to stay alive for as long as possible.

The whole thing is irrelevant to you because of your beliefs.
But your life is not irrelevant to you and you would do anything to stay alive for long isn't it
This is really interesting. No one actually wants to die young.

How do you feel knowing that you gonna leave everything you worked hard for behind and your memory will be forgot?

What's the difference between living long (your desire) and dying at a tender age?
Everything is purposeless! Vanity upon vanity.

According to your athiest beliefs here, nothing in this life is worth it. Nothing matters. That's the plain truth.

With the Bible, you would be able to find meaning to life.

Jehovah God, the source of all life will restore the earth and people will live in abundance of peace in it. The righteous that died will be raised and see their loved ones again forever.

The rest that died would remain dead forever. You don't wanna be part of them right?

Would your believing in a God change anything? Of course not!
I don't think it's wise thing to take chances.

You can start studying with the JWs. That's the best advice you may got your entire life.

May you have peace

AntiChristian:
Mention the names of those who saw him ascend in to heaven?
I don't think you have any evidence Matthew and John have anything to do with those Gospels according to their names!
The Calling of Matthew happened in Matthew 9:9
As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.
As Jesus was coming from somewhere, he saw me Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," He told me, and i got up and followed him.
Reading the above is enough to show you a lot if you have a solid foundation in reported narration!

I understand your point. It seems that the Matthew that wrote the book of Matthew wasn't the disciple named Matthew.

It doesn't disprove the fact that the four gospel books contain the true accounts of Jesus life, teachings, death, resurrection and ascension.
And it was written near the time the events happen. Unlike the koran that claim to have accurate narration on events that happened approximately 650 years before.

kkins25:
The concept is the most delusional I've ever come across.

I laugh when they say JWs were brainwashed whereas, they are the ones brainwashed with dogmas (false unscriptural doctrines)

wirinet:
I believe everyone should determine the purpose of his own life. My own purpose is to survive and leave a legacy for my children.
I don't care how life started, the reality is that it started.
Yes we human can do anything we like, except the human is physically medically or mentally restricted. In fact humans have been doing anything they like since the beginning of time.

It's doesn't make sense that life happened randomly

Do you think life could come from something lifeless (chemical reaction)?

[quote author=FatherOfJesus post=113180821][/quote]

The universe is not conscious, whether or not life exists, it doesn't care because matter and energy is always conserved and that means it will always be conserved with or without life in it.

You are right that energy would be conserved without life or not.

If there wasn't life, the conservative of energy and bla bla bla would be useless. We wouldn't even be here to discuss it.

The earth is the home for living things, life. What we need to survive and live like water, oxygen, food, sunlight, energy etc were already available in the universe. Life can't do without them.
My conclusion is; there is a mastermind behind the whole thing.
The earth was created to be the home for life and everything needed for survival was also provided in it.

We are here today because there are trillions of trillions of trillions of chemical reactions happening at the same time every nanoseconds in the universe and that's mean the probability of one of those chemical reaction starting something we call life is very high.

It seemed you have answered my question about how life started. It's doesn't make sense to me though.
Most athiest believe that the bigbang actually happened, but you seem to say that there was high chance that it could start life but it didn't.

It's easier for me to believe that man was created directly by an intelligent being than man evolved from one form to another.

Orderliness can't come from disorderliness.
Like intelligent life couldn't be started from an uncontrolled chemical reaction.


Everything was planned.

AntiChristian:
Stop telling lies about eye witness. Who were the eye witnesses?
Why can't you answer all those questions about the Bible?
Go ask your Bible instructor.

His disciples and some other followers were the witnesses.

Like 500 people saw him ascend into heaven.

John and Mathew were his disciples and they wrote their book about Jesus.
Mark and Luke weren't his disciples but they gather their story from eyewitnesses.

wirinet:
Knowing how the universe came to be is unknowable. Even you have no idea.
Life is. We just find ourselves in it.

What's the purpose of life then? Do you think life just start and we humans could do anything we like?

MaxInDHouse:
You've been hardcore student of the Bible
Please a student must surely learn through a means, so as a student who were your tutors?
You must be really psychopathic to have claimed you're actually male you useless bitch!
Your attitude, responses and manner of approach is evidence of your feminity so never in your miserable life claim to be a man when you jump into an ongoing discussion between two persons only to end up spewing gibberish and when confronted you want to hide behind the critics of God's word yet you expect any right thinking person to believe you're a man shey?
My friend, i'm through with you and i don't ever want you to cross my path on this forum so if you don't want me to rubbish you then stay clear off my mention.
I don't know you neither do i care to know you rather it's you that's been quoting me trying to criticize me.
Henceforth keep off and i promise never to mention or quote you again but if you dare mention or quote me saying your nasty stuff then don't be surprise that i will demean you to the lowest on the surface of this planet.
Farewell!

The dude is a man not woman.
Check his name:
A-girls-nightmare
Like it means he's a nightmare for girls or something. So he's a man.

AntiChristian:
Authentic and detailed indeed. I wonder if you really understand the meaning of those words.
So where was Jesus from 1year old to 29 years in the Bible?
He was largely absent!
And you called that detailed?
Who authenticated the Bible?
Who were the writers?
Who were the copyist?
How was it transfered from generation to generation?
Who were the founding fathers?
Why does the Bible have many translations with marked differences?
Why are there more books in some Bibles than others?
Why does Paul's books become over half of the new testament while other 11 disciples Jesus appointed physically could not write up to that?

We are talking about Jesus here.

The writers emphasized on his prophetic birth and then his ministry after he was baptized by John. They didn't write everything.

Do you have his story from when he was 1 to 29?

I would rather believe the 4 gospel books that contains the accounts of eyewitnesses on Jesus life and teachings and not a book that was written 600+ years after the actual event.

[quote author=FatherOfJesus post=113141705][/quote]

I'm glad that you want to have genuine discussion.

I'm on an athiests Vs thiests group on Facebook. I have discussed with lot of them.

I am of the opinion that the universe as a whole doesn't care whether it Harbour life or not.

What did you mean that the universe doesn't care? Does it have feelings?

To me it's like saying "a house doesn't care whether people live in it or not". Of course it doesn't care because it's lifeless.

Are were here today because a lifeless and an unthinking universe made it so?

It does it things

How exactly?
If you studied the way our body work, starting from the simplest cells to various organs, you should see that it didn't happen randomly.
It was planned. A mastermind was behind it.

.. Whether life exist or not doesnt change anything

Doesn't change what exactly?
So how did life start?

However since life exist on earth as far as we know, we have a role to play in the ecosystem. Whatever we do with this life affects the planet and the eixstence of other forms of life.

Would our roles change anything? Does it matter at all?

Jozzy4:
Its wrong ; as a man , can you put on an earring to a Job interview ?

" not all things are advantageous" - 1 Cor 10:23

MaxinDhouse, what do you think?
Is it a sin for a man to wear it?
What if I wore it to a party?

FatherOfJesus:
I don't know, do you know?
I'm going to be sincere in my response, I won't argue from ignorance. I am not going to inert God because I don't know how it works. I will wait until we find out, that's what every sane and honest person should always do.

As an athiest, what's your view about life?

Authentic and detailed accounts about Jesus can only be found in the Bible.

It's reasonable to believe a book that contains the story based on eyewitnesses account than a book that came 600 plus years later.

God doesn't exist, so how did the universe came to be?

FERNANDEZISBACK:
It never happened..stop the cap..

Magic dé o

[quote author=AntiChristian post=113089286]

Oh! God's name was a title.

The word "God" is not a personal name for the true God. You should see yourself that it's just a title. Many things are called God all over the world even till date.

When God spoke with Moses, he asked his name and God said "YHWH".

God didn't reveal his name...? Of what sense does that make? So only Abraham and his descendants know the true God. How do they know him?

Even Abraham, before the true God revealed himself to him didn't know GOD. He worship idols as God together with his family.
People were just doing what pleased them.
Though some people before Abraham knew the true GOD but during the time of Abraham, nobody knew him. That was why God had to reveal himself to Abraham.

God revealed his name, YHWH to Moses when he asked.

So others before him know a false God? Of what importance is the name that was revealed?

Noah, Enoch and some others knew GOD.

Of what important is your own name to you?

How does Jehovah become a transliteration of YHWH?
It was a creation of someone named Tyndale.

Did you know that that there's no letter j in the ancient Hebrew alphabet?
Actually Jesus was transliterated from Yehoshua just like Jehovah from Yahweh.
We have words like Jews, Jerusalem, Joshua etc. They were all transliterated.

Yahweh and Adonai are what then? And Adonee and Kurios!

Yahweh is the proper name of GOD. Adonai is Lord like rabb is Lord in Arabic.

When you see the word lord and God, it doesn't refer to a particular person.

Allah is Allah and some may translate it as God. Al-Illah does not exist in isolation as a translation. Illah can be God or deity.

Allah is Arabic. God is English.
I understand how Abdullah is translated to servant of Allah.
It's obvious that Allah could be translated as God. The right translation is even God.

So why did you complain that Arab Christians and Hausa Christians use Allah in their Bible?

You should that using Allah in their Bible as word for God doesn't mean they believe in the Muslim god.