Nbote:
Hehehe... Since BH has been defeated, what are they afraid of going to face?? Mutiny din set

Looks like our “gallant heroes” do not want to die for their country.

Synthetic country = fake patriots

FFK should STFU. See pot calling kettle black.

This kind of hypocrisy works only feeble minded folks.

Dreamkiller:


do you know what Muslim countries do to their minorities?
you are dreaming if you think the future is bright for your children.

You better go and arm yourself for the coming apocalypse and stop dreaming of bringing innocent kids here to suffer.

Dreamkiller:
[s]Igbos wake up and start bearing children, you are turning into a minority in Nigeria.

you are going into extinction.

Igbos wake up. stop using condoms distributed by NGO. family planning is a scam. politics is a numbers game, without it no future for your children.

https://www.nairaland.com/333388/imagine-senator-laments-low-birth/2

https://www.nairaland.com/4318673/igbos-minority-nigeria-truth

https://www.nairaland.com/4472855/monarch-igbos-stop-blaming-hausa[/s]

When people have more babies than they can afford, will you will use your "political numbers" to train them? How has breeding like rabbits improved the lives of individuals from those regions with "political numbers".

This is the daftest propaganda I have ever seen before. Igboland is alreay one of the most densely populated areas in the whole of Africa, with all the attendant environmental challenges and morons are campaigning against family planning. Have you seen any develped country with runaway population growth?

This just too moronic to even comprehend.

proffemi:


What are you talking about?

As I have pointed out, our ability to suppress our first impulse and bring our emotions under control makes us superior to other animals. Overt tribalism can, and should be curbed.

You say tribalism expresses itself in football hooliganism. Very good. Then you probably know that the tribalism of the Ultras of Russian or Italian clubs is a different animal from that of, say, Swiss national team supporters. In other words, tribalism may be a basic instinct, but it can, and often is controlled in normal people. Your apparent thesis that unbridled tribalism is universal holds no water whatsoever.

It certainly doesn't with me. You imply that my earlier opening reveals my tribalism. That accusation can not hold up to the scrutiny of any intelligent mind. I clearly presented my methodology, and thereafter presented my conclusion based on data obtained therefrom. And mind, you, a quick scroll through my post history should show you that this is not a data acquisition process that started yesterday. Arising from that, you can accuse me of using a flawed methodology (as someone did). This would be admissible; this methodology will generate subjective data (I only acquired data from threads I visit, and would display bias in the type of thread I visit). Indeed, this might explain why failed to visit the Onitsha flooding thread. The methodology can be improved (that is how research works), but the existing data supports the conclusion 100%. To read through all that and accuse me of tribalism is to reveal you as a shallow thinker.


And then what? Purge yourself, but allow the world around you rip itself asunder? Let me remind you then that "all that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".



You fault my position, but then propose this stupid philosophy? Really? This is relationalism at its worst. We should ignore rabid tribalism just because religious fundamentalism is worse? Do you think the millions killed in Rwanda died happy knowing it was tribal bigots, not religious fundamentalists who killed them? If you think "a few uncouth comments" don't eventually lead to hatred and broken heads, then you must be a child.


If this is your idea of wisdom, then please leave me to tilt at my windmills in peace.

If you want to create your own positions and argue against those then I don’t think you need to quote me to do so. I never advocated for “unbridled tribalism”. I merely mentioned that tribalism was universal. That should be obvious. People tend to organize themselves into groups. Some scholars even point to an evolutionary basis for this. The fact that we are arguing on Nairaland and not Ghanaweb or something illustrates this.

I didn’t make a value judgement about tribalism but merely suggested that speech was better than violence. I certainly didn’t say anything about religious fundamentalism. I don’t even know where you got that from.

I only suggested that you become conscious of your own biases so that you can have the mental clarity to solve the world’s ills.

omohayek:

If I'm simply cherry-picking the facts to support my supposed "bias", why don't you then provide your own alternative facts to undercut my assumptions?

I should point out that it's also quite convenient for you to simply throw your hands in the air and say "I don’t even believe their is any objective way of proving any of your assertions - one way or the other", as it would absolve you of any responsibility to either point out any factual errors I've made, or provide a fact-based rebuttal of your own: this way you get to continue arguing that "both sides are equally guilty" without having any empirical evidence to support your preferred position. This way of thinking is in itself a form of bias, akin to the climate-change deniers who seize on the 2% of scientists who doubt it as "proof" that they are on just as solid ground as the 98% of scientists who believe in climate-change.

The unpleasant fact (from your perspective) is that there are several well-known, methodologically rigorous ways of assessing the levels of prejudice in populations, from survey questions, to levels of intra-ethnic violence within communities, to the Implicit Association Test, and there is in fact survey data for Nigeria which shows that levels of tribal prejudice are far lower in the SW than they are in the SE - survey data that was gathered by international bodies, who have no vested interest in making one tribe look worse than another. Even going beyond said survey data, it's clear from the sheer number of Igbos and others who have lived for generations unmolested in the SW that Yoruba people are by far the most tolerant of outsiders amongst Nigeria's major ethnicities. Not once in the last 100 years can you point to a single occasion on which Yoruba mobs have gone out searching for Igbos or other southerners to attack, with the only ethnic clashes occurring with the very Hausa/Fulanis that so many Igbos love to accuse "Yoruba Muslims" of supposedly collaborating with.

As a wise man once said, "Facts are stubborn things", and not to be waved away simply because they don't favor one's preferred view of the world. If you aren't willing or able to counter mine with some of your own, then I see no reason for anyone to think you're in the right, other than because it suits their emotional needs to do so.

Regarding your quip about climate change deniers, I assume you’re probably referring to people who deny the anthropogenic basis for climate change. Climate change is pretty obvious but some people don't agree that the change is anthropogenic i.e originating due to human activity. That is an aside.

It's comic that you're accusing me of bias because I refused to be drawn into the usual Yoruba vs Igbo catfight which is what I thought you should also be avoiding seeing as you're all against tribalism and bigotry. I honestly do not see any benefit in trying to counter your assertion that Igbos are more tribalistic. In the first place, I don't even believe the question of who is more prejudiced is even an intelligent one. It does not help the situation nor does it solve any issues. Unless you think people are generally irrational then the more intelligent approach should be to find out the underlying reasons for prejudice (on all sides) and deal with those.

In the second place, I have enough self awareness to know that my view of who is more prejudiced will be tainted with subjectivity. For example, I grew up in Enugu and did my Youth Service in Ogun State. My experience in Enugu is tainted by the fact that I am Igbo and therefore unlikely to observe any prejudice while my experience in Ogun state is colored by the fact that I am not Yoruba and may experience situations I may interpret as prejudice. Of course I already talked about how we selectively accept facts that support our biases.

P.S. I will like to see a link to the research you talked about here because I am curious about why an international organization would be doing a research to compare prejudice across ethnic groups in Nigeria.

omohayek:

1. Rape and murder are also "simply human nature", so by your logic we ought to simply let them fester uncontrolled. To say something is "human nature" is in no way to justify simply letting it be: all the negative activities associated with envy, greed, lust, resentment, etc., are just as "natural" to humanity as the rest of our emotions, but all societies use culture, education and law to try to rein them in. Most societies are nowhere nearly as "tribal" as Nigeria, which is why they tend to work better as states.

2. It's not just "a few uncouth comments", virtually all discussions on Nairaland rapidly devolve into tribal squabbling.

3. As much as many of the Igbo commenters on this thread have sought to deny the obvious, proffemi is clearly right in suggesting that tribal comments from the Igbo side tend to get a lot more "likes" than similarly hateful ones coming from Yoruba commenters. This is statistically indisputable, and indeed, this very thread has only added extra support to the assertion.

4. I will venture further to suggest that this imbalance in the level of hate shown in both directions is also reflected in the 2015 electoral results, when Yoruba voters split their votes nearly evenly between the PDP and APC, while 95% of Igbo voters threw their lot behind the PDP: collectivist, "tribal" thinking is simply a lot stronger on the Igbo side than it is amongst Yorubas, who are nowhere as quick to see every adverse political development as an Igbo-led conspiracy, while Igbos see the hidden hand of "Yoruba Muslims" everywhere, even when the ostensible topic has absolutely nothing to do with Yorubas.

As much as I dislike the (frankly, bigoted) obsession resurgent2019 has with Islam, on this particular topic he is 100% correct: it is simply a waste of time for Yoruba commenters to try to engage with hate-filled Igbo commenters online, as most of them are unreachable through reason, and uninterested in any facts that don't bolster their fragile sense of ethnic self-worth. All one will get for the effort is insults and illogical ranting, and most of us have better things to occupy our time with than tussling in vain with poorly-educated ethnic champions.

I don’t remember saying that we should give free rein to misbehaviour. I merely compared speech to murder and suggested that speech might be better than rape and murder. On the other hand, we can’t support infringements on speech because of the tender feelings of a few people. Free speech played a very vital role in the development of those societies you tend to admire so much.

With regards to the other parts of your comment, I can’t spare the time and effort to disprove or prove your assertions. I don’t even believe their is any objective way of proving any of your assertions - one way or the other. For example, the 2015 election was not the first election in Nigeria. We have had other elections in the past with differing results (And that is if we can put any trust in Nigerian election results). I suspect that you’re simply looking for data to confirm your existing bias.

proffemi:


My tack is to divide-and-conquer. Never engage bigots in groups. Engage each separately and attempt to reason with them. Otherwise, encourage others to, like you, speak out more forcefully.

I think your mission can only be described as quixotic. You’re merely tilting at windmills.

Tribalism is simply human nature and expresses itself across the planet in many ways; from rival football supporters in Europe to the left/right divide in the US.

This is how our brains are wired and made worse by the fact that we humans seek and selectively accept information that confirm existing biases. This is universal and has nothing to do with black or white people.( It’s made worse by the fact that we live a synthic, make-believe country.) Even your earlier opening post shows that you’re personally not free from this defect.

The best you can do as a human being is to continually examine your thought processes with some awareness of your personal biases.

Personally, I am firm believer in free speech and a few uncouth comments from both sides is much better than people who periodically go into the streets at the least opportunity to rape and murder people for either not worshipping their god or having a different tongue.

naijaking1:
Next, Buhari will tell you that he is not corrupt.

Maybe his cabinet, his wife, his generals, and his friends are, but he wakes up everyday worrying about the level of corruption in the country!

Next, when his mis-administration faces rising job losses, insecurity, and non productivity, he will tell you, "see corruption is fighting back"

[b]Maybe he doesn't even understand what the issues are. He just want to be in government, ride government planes, occupy Aso rock, and travel around the World as ceremonial leader [/b]of Nigeria.

Regarding the highlighted, that describes Mumuharri in a nutshell. He is addicted to the trappings of power but loath to put any of the actual work.

That has been the case from when he was Minister for Petroleum, Head of State and PtF Chairman. Sit back, enjoy the trappings of office while other people run things through the ground all under hisskinny, oblivious kwarauption hating nose.

Oluwatosin678:

ur imo state is a state in U.S.A.. IMO D.C...

Oga,

Park there abeg.

USA is still on planet Earth, you should choose an address on Mars.

Oluwatosin678:
the killing in zamfara for the past 3-4 yrs is increasing on daily bases...over 2000 people have lost there life already and thousands of people rendered homeless and our politicians are busy fighting for there pocket and no the masses...

GOD WILL JUDGE EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS..

Oga,

Wrong thread. How does it concern my Imo State?

horsepower101:


The current Nigerian system produces very incompetent leaders. It’s very sad how we have gone from very patriotic and inspirational leaders to the political touts that we have today. Nigeria has really regressed our culture. Its sickening to see how visionsless igbo leaders keep adding salt to the injury do to us by this country.

.

Apart from the fact that our culture is suffering serious erosion, the current structure doesn’t also encourage large worthwhile projects.

I think we need to have some bottom up pressure from ordinary folks (the IPOB phenomenon was forcing them to come together indirectly). The SE is very compact and the artificial bantustans (euphemistically called states) are a major hindrance to effective development.

We need to have the equivalent of the old Eastern Nigeria Development Corporation (backed by legislation from all the 5 states) with broad and independent executive powers. This idea of governors spending 8 years on projects with no strategic value; patching roads, planting flowers and building bridges to nowhere - all thewhile playing to the gallery - isn’t going to help us.

If we continue like this for the next 50 years, our homeland will be desolate, our language lost and our culture will be merely a memory.

InvertedHammer:

/
Prostitution is not my concern. Can the industry around it generate enough revenue to sustain the state when combined with federal allocation? No. There you have it. We are talking economy and you are debating with yourself about morality.

Why anyone would leave serene environment like Enugu and travel to Owerri beats my imagination. I passed through Owerri in June....and never again. Rochas reduced that city to a dump.

/

Great point. Thanks bro. The situation in Imo State clearly illustrates the lack of imagination endemic among our politicians today. In the 60's the Great M I Okpara piped gas to industrial Areas in Aba and PH creating industrial areas that still sustain those cities today. Today, our Roaches is building gates and and patching roads in Owerri. And sycophants are mouthing ridiculous nonsense about tourism. Meanwhile, Imo is a top gas producer as well as having one of the best educated population in Nigeria.

For me, Mumuharri has done very well and will be getting my vote next year.

He has exceeded all my expectations. I knew that he would be horrible but this is like a dream come true (for any committed secessionist). The country is literally coming apart at its seams.

Four more years of this Animal and it’s “goodbye” to this infernal colonial prison camp. Mumuharri is the ultimate useful idiot.

How does this affect the price of Nigerian Natural Grass (NNG)?

They should kill themselves jo.

selemempe:
SE is not landlocked?

I know china is the 2nd largest producer and exporter of agric...i wont argue about it again with u. Its not the aim of this thread.

China is even the 6th after Germany Brazil and France.

[url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjnmYmWtancAhUZ3YMKHQLpDJMQFghMMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldatlas.com%2Farticles%2Fthe-american-food-giant-the-largest-exporter-of-food-in-the-world.html&usg=AOvVaw0JxSj3oPPa9o6IAk937xO6[/url]

selemempe:
so how will the south east be able to be a favourite re-export destination like singapore and holland if we are landlocked?

SE is landlocked? Still propagating that old canard. Lol.

In any case if you check other sources, Holland is still the second highest exporter even if you consider only locally grown products. Actually, this is common knowledge and Nwodo actually asked the team looking at SE regional development to look at Holland in crafting a development plan.

As an aside, the charts you showed was about production not exports.

[quote author=selemempe post=69502040][/quote]
You need to do better than this.

The Netherlands is the second-largest agricultural exporter after US Business January 19, 2018 The Dutch agricultural sector booked yet another export record in 2017, the national statistics office CBS said on Friday. Exports totalled €92bn last year, making the Netherlands the second-largest agricultural exporter in the world after the US. US agricultural exports were put at $1.8bn in 2016. Not all the exports were produced in the Netherlands, however. Some €25.5bn of the total was in the form of re-exports from other countries.

Read more at DutchNews.nl:

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/01/the-netherlands-is-the-second-largest-agricultural-exporter-after-us/

selemempe:
its not true that holland has the 2nd highest agric import in the world. Holland is not even in 1st 10. China, india, indonesia etc are. As for onochie...she is one of those that say they are not igbo...wat about the current king of asaba, the former ohaneze president from delta? Will u discount them?

U say even if igboland comes to down to only u town u dont care. Well we sensible igbos who understand the politics care. And that is why we would openly campaign for the inclusion of igbo speakers in south south into south east. With all ur e.g of leichester or wateva...the fact remains that the map of igboland is bigger than the current south east and opens up to the sea in port harcourt and we must fight to keep it that way.

I don’t fvck around with facts. I will advise you to check my assertions thoroughly before declaiming them.

And no you don’t understand any politics. Politics is about improving the lives of your people not building big for nothing empires to feed the ego of a venal few in positions of leadership. My ancestors didn’t build these silly empires and for good reason. I will be damned if I’ll encourage them.

selemempe:
well i wont drag anything with u. It is ur right to choose ur own believes.

But Asaba people are proudly igbo and not only Asaba..many anioma people as well. so there are some of them who identify more with their bini roots...so wat? They are all anioma and they all want anioma state.

Unlike us in the south who play childish politics..the core north knows the importance of appearing as ONE.

Just imagine if all Igbo speakers are in south east zone (including ikwere people). The south east would be a force to reckon with. Right now we are weak because we are as divided as fvck. The north and the west knows this and would do everything possible to frustrate anioma joining SE. Why are u helping them in that regard?

As for development and small land mass, there is a reason USA of 340 million people has a larger economy than EU of 540 million people.

Land mass and population are the 2 most important assets that make a great nation.

Regarding the highlighted, “appearing” is very apt especially just before the seasonal bloodletting.

You’re being disingenuous blaming people from the North and West for dividing Igbo speakers when it’s your Bini “brothers and sisters” like Onochie et al that have been shouting from the roof tops that they are not Igbo. I am only accepting their words.

For me, even if Igboland comes down to only my hometown Nkwerre, I wouldn’t care. Lichtenstein with a population of ca 50k has one of the highest per capital incomes (true measure of national success). Holland is the second highest exporter of agricultural products in the world (after the USA) their population density probably exceeds that of Igboland.

We need cohesion and singleness of purpose. Quality before quantity, not adding all sorts of people of very doubtful loyalty.

selemempe:
well if u are igbo u will see reason.
1. With nigerians clamouring for restructure and regionalism, the 6 geopolitical zones will be legalised at some point in the future.
2. If 1 above happens, the SE will be the smallest zone....with large population density.
3. If we however have ANIOMA which is a large land mass, we increase the area of SE.
4. If Biafra is being discussed at anytime in future, then we would know that we already have Anioma...so need to attach the whole of non-igbo delta state..unless they come willingly.
5. With ANIOMA created and joined in SE, the igbos and ikwerres in Rivers will be more open to associate with SE.

Bro dont think that Nigeria will always remain one and undivided...that is not true....even china divided (taiwan)...even ussr and yugoslavia, sudan etc all divided.

Maybe I am thick but it's not exactly clear how adding people of very doubtful loyalty to you region helps you.

The benefits of a large underdeveloped "land mass" isn't also very clear to me as I can't see any correlation between land mass and prosperity. Actually, there is more evidence for the exact opposite. Conceptually, it requires less resources to develop a more compact area. The beneficial economies of urbanisation are easier to exploit in an area with a denser population.

I think we should spend our energies discussing things that are more beneficial to us rather than drinking Panadol for other people's headache. I personally have no business with all these Bini people you're talking about in Delta and Rivers state. We have already "dashed" them our language (since they can't remember their original Bini tongue). What more do you want us to do? Na we born them?

selemempe:
u finished that Aboh dude.

Igbos really lost a lot after that coup. And the fall out was handled poorly by Aguiyi. He should have ruthless killed nzeogwu and co and then made adequate provisions for his own personal security...knowing reasonably that the north would try something.

When aguiyi was killed..ojukwu should have gotten the west and mid west assurances of solidarity b4 going to war. There was no way the north alone would have defeated the south.

As for Anioma...me thinks its time we add them to south east. Even if many deny being igbo, with them in south east..we can re-write that narrative slow and steady

I don't understand the premise of this thread. WTF do we gain from adding Anioma to SE.

In the first place your SE or SS and all the other so called "geo-political zones" are not even recognized by your scam 1999 "constitition". So what difference does it make if you decide to pretend that Benue or Rivers or Anioma is in the SE? Does it improve our lives in any way? Revenue is not even shared on the basis of "geo-political zones".

In the second place, the way I understand the principal argument for the creation of an additional states is to increase the number of states in the SE to achieve some parity with other zones. I don't seee how creating a state in another region and pretending that new state is in the SE corrects that inequality.

Abagworo:


Simply put the US has worked because tribes and ethnic groups have been narrowed down to skin colour. Let us adopt it in Africa since we are basically 3 skin colours of black, brown and light skin.

The USA has a dominant culture (White Anglo Saxon Protestant - WASP) around which all other sub-groups coalesced. Subsequent groups from the Irish Catholics down to present day immigrants have had to adapt and adopt key elements of the dominant WASP culture to gain acceptance and ultimately achieve success in the American society.

It wasn’t a superficial issue of skin color. It’s about ethnicity, culture and heritage. That is the reason we have nations in the first place; as a vehicle for preserving our heritage for future generations. If that was not the case, we might as well have one world government and abolish individual nation states.

Every successful country on the planet has a dominant culture except synthetic colonial shyteholes like Nigeria.

selemempe:
50% Igbo is more than enough.

If we dont include these folks now...we lose them forever. Wat do u think will happen 100 yrs from now?
I think 2 things can happen.
1. If anioma is in south east..more and more of them will gradually keep accepting their igboness.
2. If anioma is not in south east more and more of them will keep denying their igboness.

Play a unifying role bro

Lose what?

What’re they going to do for us?

Stop am oh!

Patrioticooduan:
I did my research and I noticed Russia is the only European country with enormous diversity with 180 ethnic groups. Even at that the Russians - the largest ethnic group makeup 83 percent. Why can't we copy Europe? Why are African descendants this way? Why do we take simple things hard? In Germany, the germans makeup 92 percent of Germany's population while the remaining are minorities and immigrants( blacks, turkish e.t.c.).

Preach it, bro.

People suffering from colomentality will never understand. Nigeria was created by Oyibo, so it must have been ordained by god.

Slayer1914:
THE"GOTCHA" HYPOCRISY AGAINST MINISTER KEMI
......

Is it a reasonable expectation to expect a 22 year old to come to an unfamiliar country - because it is the land of the birth of his/her parents? - Even if at that point such a person has no firm plan to come to Nigeria to work?
...

I don’t support the rush to judgement. Forgery is a very serious crime and an especially troubling accusation against a public official guarding the country’s purse strings. While we should avoid reckless allegations, the authorities should be encouraged to expeditiously investigate the issue and come up with some findings.

I don’t support the NYSC scheme because it is elitist as only tertiary graduates are eligible. Other countries have age based national service schemes. However, the excuse you gave above is specious. If she could not come to an “ unfamiliar “ country at 22 for national service, then she had no business coming to work in the same country as a senior public official.

In some countries, if you neglect national service because you were born abroad, you could be arrested at the port of entry if you decide to enter as a citizen.