₦airaland Forum

33bandit:
why does being a christian seem like work.for example a christian should not smoke because its not allowed in Christendom what if you have enjoyed smoking even before u become a christian .why does everything have to be like you are doing God a favour by not doing the things you want to do .
another example .abstaining from sex before marriage why does one have to abstain even if konji is killing u .even if it might reach to an extend that its all you want to do for that time being .
Why do we have to endure all hardships,trials,temptations and every other thing just to get a price .which is the chance of entering heaven .sometimes I've to ask my self if I am really a christian cos I'm weary and sad .
sometimes I think I might not make heaven its kinda frustrating.
sometimes the righteous suffers the most ,and one would ask why does it have to be that way .why does the righteous have to die first .all those area bad boys would be around for a decade and the upright ones would just die young ...
its awkward asking someone that knows me cos of me lifestyle,I'd hope someone would put me thru .tenks
NB .sowi for the short words and grammer hope u'd get me points

OP wheen you have issues like this as person who has accepted Christ. You do not come to a forum where we have mixed multitude to ask a defining question like this.

Here we have satanists, tradionalists, vodoo practicing people, God haters, e.t.c

If you are not rooted deep enough in Christ they will keep feeding you with lies until you think its truth especially if to them those lies have become their truths.

PM me so we can discuss privately and i will help in answering the questions you might have. God bless you

hopefulLandlord:
this is what you have to say?

where is the proof of YOUR sensational tale of Hardmirror's lies when he asked for it?

Why is it that when it comes to anything that has to do with Christians you lose every intelligent form of reasoning?

So you failed to understand my initial comment to you. Let me quote it again and highlight what you need to grab

Your problem runs deep. Deeper than even you know. Here we are talking about Otem and what is clearly a false story and here you are springing one about another thread. You guys are so lucky Seun is an Atheist and seems to cover your asses but if it were my forum, every sensational tale must be backed with proof as i would not want to be linked with falsehood. Oh you guys are indeed lucky!


This shows i stand on the side of verification and not mere stories. Everyone including myself must back up claims with proof otherwise its all sensationalism and falsehood. Surely even you should be able to understand this.

raphieMontella:
oh please!
Spare us that shvt..
The christian threads nko?
The madman who called a christians full name...did he back his story tale with proof??
I cant even name them!
Anas09 is all about contacting the patients..etc..
If i'm not mistaken..you havent provided proof of your lazarus who you raised from the dead...
Etc..
So..its better we check them all!

I drop truth and Seun himself has refused to get up and go out to investigate and confirm my claims despite my offering him the choice to do so repeatedly.

I volunteered to be verified unlike this otem guy who is being dodgy.

I have said repeatedly that I am willing to drop names, addresses, hospitals etc but guess what this same otem knowing this is truth turned around to claim that I am paying people to lie.

I guess I would also pay doctors to lie and put their license in jeopardy while also given anyone access to them for verification. I even mentioned one of the doctors names and hospitals at a certain point....Dr Onuoha the director of Peninsular hospital Ikota lekki and he was the national secretary for the association of Gynaecologists. I suppose such a distinguished man would want to put his license in jeopardy at the risk of a lie abi?

otemanuduno:
Damogul aka Naijadeyhia, I won't have much word with you until you switch over to your 4evergod account. This Damogul account has been used by you to defend several claims of 4evergod and Naijadeyhia your other accounts in the past, such that you don't need to be taken serious anymore.

Just answer me this question: Are u Damogulxx, Naijadeyhia and 4evergod or not?

And at the bolded, EVEN IF THE SUN AND MOON REVOLVES AROUND ME, I AM STILL A HUMAN BEING. I AM NOT A SELFISH BEING LIKE EUSEBIUS THE LIAR(one of the gods whom you worship as Jesus Christ)WHO BROUGHT THE STORY OF FAULKIN(jesus of the Neanderthal period) into our own world here and make it look real as if it happened in our world.

Your lie has been exposed. Stop trying to derail this thread opened by your Belarusian mystery doctor. He allegedly opened this thread to back up your claims so let him finish what he began.

I know you plan to shift our gaze from why we are here but this will not work.

let your doctor friend speak up or you forever will be known as Otem the liar

hopefulLandlord:
while the jury is still out on Otem's claim of Belarusian Nigerian;
I have a feeling that this post of yours I quoted should be taken with a pinch of salt based on seeing some of your posts sometime back claiming Hardmirror lied, when Hardmirror challenged you to pick out the lie he told you started dancing around and it was very pathetic and painful
You're playing a very sad and dishonest game when you make statements like this

remember this?


























there are certain possibilities here

1 you are a habitual liar and so call everyone else a liar to feel good about yourself being a liar, its called "psychological projection"

Psychological projection is a theory in
psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. [ For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting .

2. you are calling people anything bad you want them to be, repeating it from time to time in order to:

i. make yourself start believing the person is a liar

ii. make the person start believing it

iii. in order to make neutrals reading start believing and calling him liar too

iv. all of the above

[i]if you say something many times over, people would start to believe it, doesn't matter if that "something" is truth or lie"

mind you, I ain't saying Otem can't possibly be lying, I'm just pointing this out to show that there's a flaw on your end


NB: Otem should show us those emails anyways although I wouldn't be surprised if he does provide it and you (and your friends) shift the goalposts, perhaps call it Photoshop, plan work or ask for another proof again afterall "What evidence can satisfy a skeptical theistic mind?"

but then, even me want to see those mails

Your problem runs deep. Deeper than even you know. Here we are talking about Otem and what is clearly a false story and here you are springing one about another thread. You guys are so lucky Seun is an Atheist and seems to cover your asses but if it were my forum, every sensational tale must be backed with proof as i would not want to be linked with falsehood.

Oh you guys are indeed lucky!

LordCenturion:
Wat do u want to gain in this, which proof u want again, he should give u the doctor number or those fake patients number?, guy, u no get work, u better face ur god and worshipping him instead of becoming fbi, everyone knows that Christianity is full of lies and deceit, if I were Otem, I won't reply u again...

Sharrap! You are the one to mind your own business. Are you Otem? What do you hope to gain by defending him when you were not privy to what he discussed with the alleged doctor or were you there when they spoke?

Your kind indeed are the gullible kind and i am sure if tomorrow Otem declares himself as God you would believe him and be his first Disciple of Otegurumaharaji.

Leave Otem to fight for himself! Are you his PA?

LordCenturion:
Otemanuduno doesn't have time for ur child play, he got something better to do than arguing with u, he wrote wat he was told, nobody knows if the doctor tell him the truth or not, Otem has nothing to do about this, that doctor can give him false story just to recognize him...

Are you now his mouthpiece? He can come and say this by himself if that were the case so stop offering him a way of escape. If the information is false let him be the one to insinuate so and not you. Let Otem fight his own battles or which part of let him fight his own battles do you not understand?

felixomor:
Otem is finished.

I have studied the guy extremely well. When he knows he is caught he will suddenly go cold on Niaraland and hardly make posts. But the moment everything dies down he will start attacking everything and everyone.

This time he must produce proof for all his sensationalism.

Anas09:
Fine. He has now opened a thread.
Buy a new line, its not expensive. Wen you are emailed answer it. We shall speak and get to assertain the voice differences, this is to make sure you are not Doctor Brlarush.

We shall also pm Doctor Brlarush, we shall further speak with him too. We will pick it from there. Names, numbers and addresses of the fakes should be provided, if they live in our states or cities, we shall visit them. Interviews shall be done. Videos of the programmes where these fake patients claim their healing shall be provided too.

We shall see the previous and present states.

Shey you want to disgrace Pastors? We'll help you disgrace them.

Otem, a Train is coming your way.

Warrior

Seun:
It looks to me like you're trying to cover up the secret.

If this is directed at those of us calling for vetting of his claims then you have got it wrong Seun. Why would we cover it up? We only want the truth. The source is known for lies so he has to show that his claims are credible enough to be taken seriously.

If he can prove this is true is that not a higher ground to stand on with a megaphone to blast the pastors and christianity from? He would be the one gaining and not us.

All we ask is for him to produce proof and i have clearly stated the simplest way to do so. I can post screengrabs of chats and indeed practically every android device can do so so is it too hard for him to post the alleged email he claims the doctor first sent him before they spoke on the phone?

KingEbukasBlog:
Same should be done to HardMirror

" From Pastor to Atheist "

Unbelievable !

God-haters cooking up lies just to besmirch Christianity

My Brother Oyinbo calls it sensational Journalism and such are not ever graced on serious media platforms and only for softsells where Gullible people congregate.

Seun:
Ok, enough of the attacks. If you have questions, ask them now. If not, please be quiet.

Seun your comment here suggests you are probably being too laid back about all this. I do realise your leaning towards Atheism could make you not care so much as long as it shames Christianity but some of us do care and we demand the proper vetting of certain information before such threads would be allowed to stay on for too long and if proof cannot be provided to substantiate such threads then they should be taken down.

Where would we be if we lost all honesty and truth? Who would even take Nairaland seriously anymore?

Otem made some serious and suspiciously dishonest claims and the way all this is panning out shows that it indeed is a dishonest claim. He Otem could simply show us a snapshot of the email the doctor sent him which clearly shows the time stamp same way the alleged doctor has posted otems email but without a time stamp.

This is not too much to do but will Otem do so? He wouldnt simply because he knows his lies would be discovered.

I have dealt with him in the past and can say for a truth that he eats lies, breaths lies and shiits them too.

CeoMYN:
I hope you read where I said I left religious God(s) so kindly leave my thread

The religious Gods never had you in the first place so when you allegedly left you thought you were leaving the religious Gods when in essence you left your idea of following religious Gods and not actual following them on their terms. It was all about you.

oaroloye:
SHALOM!



Who told you THAT?

. JOHN 6:35-63.

35. And Jesus said unto them,
“I am The Bread of Life. He that cometh to Me shall never Hunger, and he that believeth in Me shall never Thirst.
36. "But I said unto you that ye also have seen Me, and believe not.
37. "All that The Father giveth Me shall come to Me, and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.
38. "For I came down from Heaven, not to do Mine own will, but The Will of Him that sent Me.
39. "And this is The Father’s Will who hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the Last Day.
40 And this is The Will of Him that sent Me: that every one who seeth the Son and believeth in Him may have Everlasting Life, and I will raise him up at the Last Day.”
41. The Jews then murmured at Him, because He said,
“I am The Bread which came down from Heaven.”
42. And they said,
“Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith,
‘I came down from Heaven?' "
43. Jesus therefore answered and said unto them,
“Murmur not among yourselves.
44. "No man can come to Me unless the Father who hath sent Me draw him; and I will raise him up at the Last Day.
45. "It is written in the Prophets:
‘And they shall all be taught by God.’
Every man therefore that hath heard and hath learned from The Father cometh unto Me.
46. "Not that any man hath seen The Father, save He that is of God; He hath seen the Father.
47. "Verily, verily I say unto you,
'He that believeth in Me hath Everlasting Life.'
48. "I am that Bread of Life.
49. "Your fathers ate manna in the Wilderness, and are dead.
50. "This is the Bread which cometh down from Heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die.
51. "I am The Living Bread which came down from Heaven. If any man eat of this Bread, he shall live for ever; and the Bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the Life of the World.”
52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying,
“How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Then Jesus said unto them,
“Verily, verily I say unto you,
'Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man
and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.'
54. "Whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh My blood hath Eternal Life,
and I will raise him up at the Last Day.
55. "For my flesh is Meat indeed, and my blood is Drink indeed.
56. "He that eateth my flesh and drinketh My blood dwelleth in Me, and I in him.
57. "As The Living Father hath sent Me, and I live by The Father,
so he that eateth Me, even he shall live by Me.
58. "This is that Bread which came down from Heaven,
not as your fathers ate manna and are dead; he that eateth of this Bread shall live for ever.”
59. These things said He in the Synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60. Many of His Disciples therefore, when they had heard this, said,
“This is a hard saying; who can hear it?”
61. When Jesus knew in Himself that His Disciples murmured at it, he said unto them,
“Doth this offend you?
62. "What if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up where He was before?
63. "It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing.
The Words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

YAHSHUA SAID THAT HEAVEN IS A PLACE.

He came from there.

He went back there.

Your Fantasy does not work.



How would someone like YOU know?

. MATTHEW 25:31-46.

31. "When The Son of Man
shall come in his Glory,
and all the Holy Angels with him,
then shall he sit upon
The Throne of his Glory:
32. "And before him
shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate
them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth
his sheep from the goats:
33. "And he shall set the sheep
on his right hand,
but the goats on the left.
34. "Then shall the King say
unto them on his right hand,

'COME, YE BLESSED OF MY FATHER,
INHERIT THE KINGDOM
PREPARED FOR YOU
FROM THE FOUNDATION
OF THE WORLD:
35. 'FOR I WAS AN HUNGRED,
AND YE GAVE ME MEAT:
I WAS THIRSTY,
AND YE GAVE ME DRINK:
I WAS A STRANGER,
AND YE TOOK ME IN:
36. 'NAKED, AND YE CLOTHED ME:
I WAS SICK,
AND YE VISITED ME:
I WAS IN PRISON,
AND YE CAME UNTO ME.'

37. Then shall the Righteous
answer him, saying,

'LORD, WHEN SAW WE THEE
AN HUNGRED,
AND FED THEE?
OR THIRSTY,
AND GAVE THEE DRINK?
38. 'WHEN SAW WE THEE
A STRANGER,
AND TOOK THEE IN?
OR NAKED,
AND CLOTHED THEE?
39. 'OR WHEN SAW WE THEE
SICK,
OR IN PRISON,
AND CAME UNTO THEE?'

40. "And the King shall answer
and say unto them,

'VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU,

"INASMUCH AS YE HAVE DONE IT
UNTO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE
MY BRETHREN,
YE HAVE DONE IT
UNTO ME." '

41. "Then shall he say also
unto them on the left hand,

'DEPART FROM ME,
YE CURSED,
INTO EVERLASTING FIRE,
PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL
AND HIS ANGELS:
42. 'FOR I WAS AN HUNGRED,
AND YE GAVE ME NO MEAT:
I WAS THIRSTY,
AND YE GAVE ME NO DRINK:
43. 'I WAS A STRANGER,
AND YE TOOK ME NOT IN:
NAKED, AND YE CLOTHED ME NOT:
SICK, AND IN PRISON,
AND YE VISITED ME NOT.'

44. "Then shall they also
answer him, saying,

'LORD, WHEN SAW WE THEE
AN HUNGRED, OR ATHIRST,
OR A STRANGER, OR NAKED,
OR SICK, OR IN PRISON,
AND DID NOT MINISTER
UNTO THEE?'

45. "Then shall he answer them, saying,

'VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU,

"INASMUCH AS YE DID IT NOT
TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE,
YE DID IT NOT TO ME." '

46. "And these shall go away
into Everlasting Punishment:
but the Righteous into Life Eternal."



Like YOU.

. MARK 7:6-7.

6. He answered and said unto them,
"Well hath Esaias prophesie
of you hypocrites, as it is written,

'This people honoureth me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me.
7. 'Howbeit in vain do they worship me,
Teaching for Doctrines the commandments of men.' "



[color=#ffffff].[/color] MATTHEW 16:13-20.

13. When Jesus came
into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi,
he asked his Disciples, saying,
"Whom do men say that I
The Son of Man am?"
14. And they said,
"Some say that thou
art John the Baptist:
some, Elias;
and others, Jeremias,
or one of the Prophets."
15. He saith unto them,
"But whom say ye that I am?"
16. And Simon Peter answered and said,
"Thou art the Christ,
The Son of The Living God."
17. And Jesus answered and said unto him,
"Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:
for Flesh and Blood hath not
Revealed It unto thee,
but my Father
Which is in Heaven.
18. "And I say also unto thee,

'THAT THOU ART PETER,
AND UPON UPON THIS ROCK
I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH;
AND THE GATES OF HELL
SHALL NOT PREVAIL IT.'

19. "And I will give unto thee
The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven:
and whatsoever
thou shalt bind on Earth
shall be bound in Heaven:
and whatsoever
thou shalt loose on Earth
shall be loosed in Heaven."
20. Then charged he his Disciples
that they should tell no man
that he was Jesus The Christ.

TTHE IDEA OF CHURCH CAME FROM YAHSHUA- WHICH YOU SAY IS A "FALSE IDEA."



The CHRISTIANS Yahshua will one day send to HELL and has been sending to Hell were surely "happy," like YOU are!

. DEUTERONOMY 29:18-20.

18. Lest there should be among you
man, or woman, or family, or tribe,
whose heart turneth away this day
vrom the LORD our God,
to go and serve the gods of these nations;
lest there should be among you
a root that beareth gall and wormwood;
19. And it come to pass,
when he heareth the Words of this Curse,
that he bless himself in his heart, saying,

"I shall have Peace,
though I walk
in the imagination of mine heart,
to add drunkenness to thirst:"

20. The LORD will not spare him,
but then the anger of The LORD
and his jealousy shall smoke against that man,
and all the Curses that are
written in this Book shall lie upon him,
and the LORD shall blot out
his name from under Heaven.

THEREFORE, YOUR IMAGINARY DOCTRINE, THAT MAKES YOU SO "HAPPY," NOW, WILL CONDUCT YOU TO RUIN.

I

I love you for this brother. We shall make it.

otemanuduno:
So you expect a non-nairalander to have an old Nairaland account? Seun asked for this and I told him. I didn't even know he would have the time to open a Nairaland account.

So a person who just opened a new account would share his own post the way an old member would abi? ...

This is one lie you would never be able to wrigglr out of. We are still waiting for you and your Belarushians proof or forever be branded a liar which though I already pegged you to be b4 now

akintom:
Don't take it personal.

If i were you, i would just decide to prove that all my fairy tales are real. You know what i would do?

I will command my tab to blow up beyond repair.

Just as you commanded the sack of the gateman.

Some people never learn!

akintom:
Of course you're a "spiritual scientist", no doubt about that.

You're also prophet Elijah.....commanding sack and fire

All these are the tricks and fraud, that achieve only the accumulation of filthy lucre for you and your likes.

My pity is towards the gullible folks.

Let me offer you free advice.

Go get help! You are too bitter to be rational! You spit vitriol at will and think that is a normal conversation and you call yourself normal? You are putting a big dent on your own thread and if you were wise you would tone down your vile to the point of sounding human.

LiberaDeus:
Ok I understand your points. Let me try and summarize them and give my replies.

1. You said that you view it from a spiritual angle so people viewing it from a physical angle can't understand. - from what religions say about prayer, it is clear that prayer is meant to be a spiritual exercise that presents physical benefits.

In other words, if I am a microbiologist and I use my scientific methods with the aid of a microscope, most people would never understand my terminology let alone understand how to use a microscope.
They won't be able to study a piece of bacteria neither would they be able to understand the process of developing a vaccine. One thing is sure, if I claim to be a microbiologist, then my theories should be verifiable in real life.

When someone claims he has a cure for hiv, people must not understand how it works they only need to be able to verify that it works.
In Christianity and other world religions, prayer is said to have a physical effect that can be seen. For example, Elijah praying for rain, Moses parting the red sea, David winning physical battles, the Israelite neighbors attesting to the power of Yahweh etc.

2. Prayer has been carried out long before modern science. But in life, the age of a practice doesn't verify the benefits. Slavery has been carried out long before human rights was preached. Slavery seemed to be beneficial for society since it brought an ever ready working class, it made some people rich, if it wasn't beneficial why wasn't it scrapped up until the 19th century based on your logic. But now we know better than continuing slavery. We can see that societies can reach very high levels of economic prosperity without slavery e.g USA, UK etc.

There are so many age long practices that have been scrapped, what of circumcision, female circumcision, animal sacrifice, bloodletting etc. All these practices were attested to be effective but now we know that whatever benefits they appeared to give there was also a whole lot of negatives coming with it. We have replaced these practices. The same thing with prayer, just because its old doesn't mean it is effective. Prayer is old because it is a psychological coping mechanism used by humans to deal with difficult situations and it is almost natural. But what appears to be natural is not always beneficial.

Defecating in public seems to be natural for all mammals and we humans did it for almost all our existence but we now have better and cleaner ways of excretion. Just like excretion, the urge to defecate comes and we decide to use a toilet cause we have developed one, in prayer also, the problems of life comes and we want to do the almost natural thing of appealing to a supposed higher power in the cloud but due to advancement of humanity we now know that planning before hand is just okay and prayer doesn't change anything.

3. You also talk about prayer being personal so the benefits are personal. This just supports my point that the greatest benefits of prayer are personal and psychological.
Your point of prayer not being measured independently goes against Jesus teaching that says that Christians are the light and salt of the earth. Jesus clearly states that if you put a light out for everyone to see it will be beneficial and people will give glory to god. So Jesus never claimed that prayers effects couldn't be seen. In short, the apostolic ministry is mainly about praying and performing signs and wonders so people can see and believe.

People have personal experiences quite alright but those experiences can be proven to be deeply emotional effects of fervent belief. The same way you cannot quantify my love for my wife because the love comes from my mind. Its the same thing too with prayer. If people enjoy it and feel better and claim they prefer its benefits to not praying who can argue with them for their opinion and experience. But if this same people claim that prayer can move a mountain or raise the dead and they are asked to do it then the personal claims are no longer valid. The claims must be demonstrated since the so called power of prayer is claimed to be universal not personal.

4. Oga what do you define as spiritual. Please give me a definition of the spirit realm and what belongs there. Its only when you table what belongs there that I can refute or accept your last point.

You started off well then digressed into things that had nothing to do with Prayer just to add some beef to your content so i helped you to highlight the irrelevant portions of your comment.

Now lets deal with the crux of the matter.


Prayer as known by a man who isnt spiritual is seen as discussing with an "imaginary friend"

Prayer as known by a spiritual man is seen as embracing the will and power of a divine friend, brother, father, God

Now God himself gave parameters for prayer application in order to enable him come into the picture and 2 of the key conditions are FAITH and DESIRE.

Faith in God translates to trust in God and Trust in God translates to believing God is who He is and is the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him thus declaring that He is greater than you and can do what your human ability cannot do especially when all else fails.

That is the pillar of Prayer for Christianity.

I did say that prayer is an experience and in this experience is growth. Nobody born today can begin running..He must first belly flop then learn to crawl etc. So it is with prayer.

Prayer begins small and as one grows in God and Faith so do the results. So look at it this way;

Not all that pray have grown and when you wish to carry a prayer project bigger than you, you would flop because you are yet to get to that point but for others they have crossed that point so can easily get answers to prayer in a day that would take you weeks.

Prayer works in 2 ways....draws us closer to God and also grooms us spiritually so we can learn through practise how to become better and stronger in God hence hearing Him better and understanding Him too.

Truthfully and Personally i have seen Prayer do what medicine couldnt and what men failed to do and i have seen this enough times as a religious practice to form a "scientific" opinion that its not;

1) Coincidence

2) Luck of the draw

3) Placebo effect

My experiences which are indeed mine cannot be disproved by you until you present me with your own personal experiences under the same conditions i found myself and applied Prayer....Now this is what science is all about isnt it? Being able to replicate an experiment under the same conditions in order to get the same results hence making the experiment and its findings credible. Have you done this yet?

If you have not then this discussion has no basis as its yet theory to you but Practical experience to me so in this case I AM THE SCIENTIST while YOU ARE NOT.

The spirit Realm is a realm i am a part of as a Child of God and no definition or earth can cover it so i will pass on that as its an experience and not a theory as i have already said.

When i decree a thing to another and it comes to pass repeatedly exactly as decreed and is seen and documented then it becomes scientific..e.g

1) As a young boy growing in Christ i have angrily decreed job loss to a security guard who harassed my brother for nothing and i gave him a 2 week deadline. He was sacked for no tangible reason almost 2 weeks later.

2) It was revealed to me by God that my first kid would be a boy and when he would come would be 5 yrs into my marriage. I told my wife but she was anxious for us to have a kid early. She tried everything to fast forward the process. Nothing worked until the 5yr deadline was up. 5 days from her missing her period i was told by the holy spirit while in bed early in the morning that she was pregnant and i woke her up and congratulated her and told her our son is here. 9 months later our son was born.

My second kid was also revealed to me as a Girl and her name given to me and i have told my wife as well. Now based on the first experience she now believes.

3) It was revealed to me by God that i would be taken to a place by a woman who would introduce me to some land owners who would want me to assist them and when i got there i would know. 2 yrs after a lady offered me a land sponsorship deal in ikorodu and when i went all the things i saw in the dream i saw them on ground and i sponsored the land survey and got loads of acres in return which would be a church city in the future.

4) I have seen too many demon possessed people delivered..even at my own hands. They were not manipulated or coerced and after they were freed their lives regained normalcy.

The list is endless. This is just to buttress what personal experience is and it is not kalo kalo or placebo. Science cannot transcend the spiritual to explain it but the spiritual can identify with science as proof of its existence which is what the articles i posted clearly indicated.

If you wish to be reasonable with this argument then first of all try not to speak from hearsay. Experience is the best teacher. Come onboard and see this for yourself under the right conditions and then if it fails you then have a good ground to speak knowledgeably on the said subject matter.

LiberaDeus:
Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

I will keep this short and sweet alright? When I speak i speak from the perspective of one who Believes in God and the efficacy of Prayer.

Now even as a believer in the power of prayer i can relate to science when it tries to put into words the benefits prayer has to offer but since they are not viewing it from my angle spiritually they can only offer physical pointers which are truly the best of their ablity.

Note that these are recent discoveries yet Prayer has been carried out by humanity long before science intelligently began and even in that crude era the benefits were tangible and today science confirms that. So who scientifically recommended prayer back then for it to be beneficial when intelligent science did not exist?

If you read the articles you would see where it clearly stated that prayer has been part of humanity right from the beginning so how come this is so and yet it was not detrimental but beneficial even when there was no research covering it?

I did point at Prayer being a Faith thing which hinges on experiences and not theories. These experiences are personal and verifiable so words from people who lack these personal experiences cannot be used to replace the experiences people have had.

Since Prayer is a physical practice based on spiritual foundations how then can you measure it accurately without also applying spiritual parameters?

akintom:
From my clear recollection, you're certainly stumbling on my page first time.

It's now obvious to me now, that your mental construct is lacking in articulation and comprehensive capacity, of scientific culture.

Sleep on in religious clouds, you will be better of.

smh You are simply devolving for real otherwise you would have been responding in a mature manner and not like an adolescent. Unless of course you really are adolescent.

akintom:
Your point therefore is.......?

*facepalm* Mr Intelligent also missed the memo. Wow..well so much for intelligence.

plaetton:
Not so fast Buddy.
It doesn't work like that here.

You err, you get flogged.
You don't decide who flogs you and who shouldn't.

I err i get flogged. lmao....indeed you are the one who repeatedly erred but i will refrain from flogging you in order to save you some face which was why i chose not to continue our convo and i meant it. At this point i can joke with you about any other thing but not on the OP. Again thank you for the interchange.

plaetton:
Gosh! I really don't know how you guys studied the English language.
First of all, I never admitted error in comparing prayer with opioids.
The comparisons are accurate. Same illusionary highs, same deep lows, same addictive tendencies.

It is you who never fully comprehended my point.
You read, you pick words, but the points always seem to elude you.

The links, the report you are citing is not in anyway controversial.
The report, let me remind you did not mention anything specifically unique about prayers, and it's mind tonic on the human psyche.

My Convo with you is done bro so you would do well to stop quoting me now. Thank you very much.
And I am reminding again, for the third time, that prayer is a placebo, and that all placebos have the same tonic effects.
The negative consequences of addiction, whether to placebos, opioids or prayers is what draws our attention, not the mild, fading tonics.

My Convo with you is done bro so you would do well to stop quoting me now. Thank you

akintom:
I understand your limitations.

You obviously don't know how to read scientific works. So you can't understand its conclusions.

Subjected to multi empirical variables, prayer has no significant benefit.

Prayer has nothing in it to PRACTICALLY, alter outcome of any practical endeavors.

When you are caught with your hand in the cookie jar you start using tirades and attempts at calling another uneducated to give you an illusion of intelligence. Below is the expo i gave Plaetton which he missed. Let me post it again here for you and i hope for the sake of your "intelligence" you do not miss it as well.

According to a 2013 Pew Research Poll, over half of Americans pray every day. A 2012 poll found that over 75 percent of Americans believe that prayer is an important part of daily life. Other polls indicate that even some atheists and religiously unaffiliated individuals admit that they sometimes pray.

Our species has probably been praying for as long as we have been able to contemplate our existence. And though we may never be able to establish evidence that a deity or spiritual force actually hears our prayers, in recent years, scientists have begun to consider the potential tangible (i.e., measurable) effects of prayer. And this research suggests that prayer may be very beneficial.

akintom:
Your moniker betrays you.

Damogul - "demonstration of goofing"

You certainly stray here, otherwise, you would have been familiar with how, the sum total of your religious experience, is a filthy delusion.

Your thread is is all about the futility of prayer so stick to your own thread and stop shifting the goalpost. I have shown you clearly here how your thread is even fighting you and calling you a dishonest person.