bemeruca: So we are back to what I have been saying?
This is basically a concession to my point.
After all the long talk about climate, colonialism, geography, and history, White man, your own solution is not changing or addressing any of that.
Your solution is about leadership, ideology, politics, industrialization, and African unity.
Hmmm, everyone's been trying to bang this points into your head.
Aggressive industrialization and unity are good points. So you proved my argument: Africa’s future depends mainly on what Africans choose to build now, maintain and how they think about the future, their brothers and their unborn children.
I honestly don't know how you reason. Analyzing a matter is a spectrum from cause to situation to correction. As I said with my analogy of the stages of a man's life. Here you are simply saying we should only analyse with the future in mind and throw away the past, the causes, and even the present reality. I am tired of your games.
Kukutente23: I'm shocked you're writing this Have you checked the original post she made and saw her attach pictures to it like this I thought it will be obvious that it's the Op who lifted her pic obviously without her consent and attached it to the thread to give it some perspective You seem to be ignorant of how some of these threads are made
Ah, if that is the case, different matter. Still, for me, I would have left out my "good deed." Perhaps just end it hinting that we should all be sensitive to the pains of one another.
Publishing ones small works of charity is against the spirit of the scripture I cited.
Finally why should you be shocked when I said "if" in my post.
It's making it about herself. It's self indulgent. It's self praise and self promotion.
Such was frowned on by Christ when one does good works.
Matthew 6:1–4, spoken by Jesus during the Sermon on the Mount.
Here is the passage from the New International Version (NIV):
"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
And you are the Christian between us, so you should know this.
GloriousGbola: unfortunately, this is a simplistic answer. the same way people talk about how N1 was $1 in the 80s. very easy. some would even say life was easier during colonialism. gej was handed a working economy and proceeded to squander it. of course your average human being anywhere is not interested in root cause so it is an easy sell.
i have shared this before and i will share it again it is a google search away
i worked in the industry when gej ws president and i can assure you no actual operator was happy to see as gej turned the subsidy into an eating contest where strangers were paid billions for doing nothing. look at total subsdy under yardua 11 billion in 2 years - then gej 42 billion in 4 years then buhari 23 billion in 8 years. your maths is not mathing chief that chart tells you how that the gej people love sqanderd 20 to billion usdon non existent subsidy payments. but lets celebrate him because life was good
bola tinubu took over a declining lagos from buba marwa and turnd it around. he took over a severely diminished nigeria from buhari and is slowly turning it around. what would he have done if he took over from obj or yardua? what would gej have done if he took over from buhari?
what exactly is gejs record beyond being the number 2 to alams? what is his legacy in bayelsa, a state that is at once of nigeria's richest and poorest states ?
all you have to sell him is that people remember life was good under gej while glossing over the hole hsicareless proflgrancy was pushing us into.
And finally I don't know where you got your chart from but it's a scam chart.
In GEJ's last year, fuel subsidy expenditure was not up to a trillion. In PMB's last year it was almost five trillion.
The Federal Government spent ₦4.39 trillion (approximately $9.7 billion at the time) on petrol subsidies in 2022.
When you consider what PMB had done to the exchange rate as well, you will find that in GEJ's last year the FG spent $3 billion on same.
So your APC govt tripled it and somehow you are still saying GEJ is the one who ballooned it.
Just not adding up brother. You need to be objective and take away your soft spot for the bullion van baron.
If you are defending Julius Caesar as better than Napoleon, please find other grounds than saying that he was less expansionist..
If you are defending BAT against anyone, try not to use corruption as the yardstick.
GloriousGbola: unfortunately, this is a simplistic answer. the same way people talk about how N1 was $1 in the 80s. very easy. some would even say life was easier during colonialism. gej was handed a working economy and proceeded to squander it. of course your average human being anywhere is not interested in root cause so it is an easy sell.
i have shared this before and i will share it again it is a google search away
i worked in the industry when gej ws president and i can assure you no actual operator was happy to see as gej turned the subsidy into an eating contest where strangers were paid billions for doing nothing. look at total subsdy under yardua 11 billion in 2 years - then gej 42 billion in 4 years then buhari 23 billion in 8 years. your maths is not mathing chief that chart tells you how that the gej people love sqanderd 20 to billion usdon non existent subsidy payments. but lets celebrate him because life was good
bola tinubu took over a declining lagos from buba marwa and turnd it around. he took over a severely diminished nigeria from buhari and is slowly turning it around. what would he have done if he took over from obj or yardua? what would gej have done if he took over from buhari?
what exactly is gejs record beyond being the number 2 to alams? what is his legacy in bayelsa, a state that is at once of nigeria's richest and poorest states ?
all you have to sell him is that people remember life was good under gej while glossing over the hole hsicareless proflgrancy was pushing us into.
Let me add one more thing.
I find it rich when people use that line that the current govt is cleaning up the mess of the last one.
Especially if you refer to corruption via subsidy.
You cannot sincerely talk about any good intentions in that regard when open and in-our-face corruption larger than the entire subsidy is taking place with Chagoury alone.
When Abacha's bag man is appointed our Minister of Budget.
These are odious things and no one should try to paint BAT a saint in the face of these.
He ain't cleaning anything, and posterity will judge him very darkly.
GloriousGbola: unfortunately, this is a simplistic answer. the same way people talk about how N1 was $1 in the 80s. very easy. some would even say life was easier during colonialism. gej was handed a working economy and proceeded to squander it. of course your average human being anywhere is not interested in root cause so it is an easy sell.
i have shared this before and i will share it again it is a google search away
i worked in the industry when gej ws president and i can assure you no actual operator was happy to see as gej turned the subsidy into an eating contest where strangers were paid billions for doing nothing. look at total subsdy under yardua 11 billion in 2 years - then gej 42 billion in 4 years then buhari 23 billion in 8 years. your maths is not mathing chief that chart tells you how that the gej people love sqanderd 20 to billion usdon non existent subsidy payments. but lets celebrate him because life was good
bola tinubu took over a declining lagos from buba marwa and turnd it around. he took over a severely diminished nigeria from buhari and is slowly turning it around. what would he have done if he took over from obj or yardua? what would gej have done if he took over from buhari?
what exactly is gejs record beyond being the number 2 to alams? what is his legacy in bayelsa, a state that is at once of nigeria's richest and poorest states ?
all you have to sell him is that people remember life was good under gej while glossing over the hole hsicareless proflgrancy was pushing us into.
It's very easy to blame past leaders for issues to do with BAT, but where any credit may be due to GEJ you then say oh no, not him, past leaders had done well before him and that's why. That sounds a little opportunistic.
If I am not mistaken our GDP was at its all time high in his time.
And you know something. I was old enough in 2015 to see the exact policies introduced by PMB that tanked the economy.
It wasn't GEJ that did anything to that economy (other than the regular kwarapshin common to all leaders). He didn't destroy the economy with bad policies the way PMB and BAT have done.
GloriousGbola: did you follow the October 1 bombing?
the whole world was aware that mend was going to attack the venue and had given the celebrations a wide berth. but gej's admin did not warn nigerians.
this is like me holding a birthday party that area boys have warned they will attack and everyone but my immediate family is aware of this
the aftermath was even worse as gej then brought despised militants into aso rock on some sort of reassurance tour.
i am sure you understand business cycles. GEJ did not build anything. all he did was inherit what OBJ had put together and run it into the ground
everyone talks about how gej 'courageously ended subsidy while ignoring the fact that he allowed it to fraudulently grow over 300% on his watch and never punished anyone for it.
you can also google how he squandered the ECA. the man was lucky he did not return, because his chickens were coming home to roost .They were borrowing to pay salaries.
the story of joseph, pharaoh, 7 fat cows and 7 lean cows is the way life is. cycles. i have experienced cycles in my personal life, and i have seen them in corporate. all gej did was blow the money at the end of 7 fat years and now those who came after him are trying to salvage it. what i will agree is that buhari who we had real hopes for was a complete disaster who let a situation go from bad to worse.
this is really beyond tinubu. the Islamist terrorist have nigeria in their crosshairs. there are enough nigerian muslims whom buy into teh ideology, and a security apparatus that is corrupt through and through. to make matters worse, thsi is happening under te watch of trump, who is more intersted in transactions and posturing
i also think that you have an overly optimistic view of how fast progress is and you are in a hurry to assume that all it takes is an incorruptible leader
i often delete posts i start writing and i was writing one earlier today about lagos badagry expressway
that project started in 2010 - it was meant to run for three to four years. it was funded by the world bank. in 2026 we are still on it and it is now funded by Lagos state. my then employers had a lot of interest in the project as we had a fuel station along the express and the plan was that we would renovate a site and the commissioning would coincide with the closeout of the expressway project. so we followed up on it. there were multiple delays from different angles, a pdp led fg delaying guarantee of the second tranche of the WB loan, an nnpc pipeline that had to be rerouted, covid, CCECc internal strikes , Ambode, funding, etc.
and that is just one project
no one is going to come and wave a wand and sort out our power issues. but it starts with deregulation - which you dont want to hear because it is the act of an evil government that wants to punish citizens.
Thanks for your detailed response but all said and done its been 11 years and no one can claim that either security or the economy have improved. I am sure you also know in your heart that in any poll the vast majority will tell you their lives were better as of 2015.
I am surprised you talked about subsidy ballooning under GEJ when it jumped from just under 300 Billion to 7 Trillion under PMB.
Also I will take low hanging fruits. Since you admit Buhari was a disaster who can we credit with bringing Buhari? You know the answer.
PastorAIO: I always feared that you didn’t always get what I was saying. I felt that you were pushing your own ideas unto my words, for your own purposes
Possible. Its been ages anyhow. I do miss those days. Rare is the poster with the kind of quality some of you had. Viaro, Mazaje, Kag, thehomer, prizm, mnwankwo, justcool, your good self to name a few.
GloriousGbola: says the man who brought mend militants into aso rock in the aftermath of the october 1 bombings the man who legalized and normalized paying militants protection money pipeline contracts
Looks like you have a strong dislike for that man.
I cant understand why given the overall quality of leadership in this country, especially what followed him.
I mean, I get his being weak, but what is the truth on two simple things since he left - security and economy - which has improved in 11 years since his departure? Not even the general was effective on security as everyone thought and he was also a sore disappointment on kwarapshin.
I mean I know your opinion already but you kinda make out like he was the worst thing we've ever known.
Dtruthspeaker: See how America controls your head. Where have you seen a lawyer Niger who is not a family lawyer/business lawyer/political lawyer/accident lawyer etc.?
Lawyers have areas of specialization too, okay? If you are not one, please SHATTAP! Besides you obviously missed the word "practicing." Or dont know the meaning.
basilico: You can't industrialize without reliable ,cheap and abundant energy. The market is there. There are no excuses whatsoever to company executive in the private sector making losses when their product can't meet demand. Govt should facilitate industrial development by availing a favourable business climate and steering off non essential sectors.
Take a massive housing construction boom. Target a million homes a year, use local materials. Force manufacturers to build everything from nuts,bolts, gauge wire, plugs,taps ,pegs , nails etc locally..This should be a years long development goal then finally move in to construction. That was just one example of an idea that would encourage industrialization. Develop a parallel competitive financial sector in the process.
basilico: Those historical factors are a fact as you have eloquently elucidated them. They are in the past,we are in the present. You have covered the past. Now explain why we are not moving forward, Why don't we have government forecasting population growth 10 years ahead and scaling up water reservoirs, electrical generation, transport infrastructure, 4G connectivity etc ahead of time. We have a fully functional National Bureau of Statistics. Bequeathed to us by our colonial masters.
Progress is being made albeit slowly and painfully and in a scattered and disjointed manner. In some sectors there is stagnation and regression but overall the trajectory still is forward. There is a lot to be done and improved on, we need to get our ideology and politics right as a starter as so much depends on right leadership.
On a practical note, if anyone asks me, I will say the key to the future is aggressive industrialization.
On a dreamy and idealist note, I will like to see Africa unite. A United States of Africa was a dream of several independence pan-Africanists such as Kwame Nkrumah, Julius Nyerere, Robert Mugabe and Nnamdi Azikiwe and even became a dream of Ghadaffi.
If we are able to achieve it, and I concede it looks very unlikely - men, that is the single thing that will bring Africa to the table with real weight.
bemeruca: How does it explain Nigeria's situation?
I can't start from the beginning. If you didn't get, forget it.
Or try reading more carefully and more thoughtfully next time. Because if you did, you wouldn't have been shouting "excuses" up and down, only to come back and say that every single one matters.
bemeruca: If none of those things removes the responsibility of our leaders, then you have conceded my main point. How about that?
My argument has always been that colonialism, history, climate, geography, and education cannot be used to excuse present-day corruption, bad governance, looting, tribalism, and failure after decades of self-rule. For simplicity, they are not a factor today. It only explain our starting point.
You can call them that all you want. But if they do not remove responsibility, then they are not an explanation for why Emefiele stole, or why basic infrastructure cannot be maintained 60 years after independence.
That is my point and consistently so.
A factor may exist in history, but responsibility belongs to the people making decisions today.
No matter how much you want to insist on climate and history, it does not excuse our situation today.
No one was ever making excuses. Explanations were being offered and you have conceded to them.
bemeruca: From everything I have written, my point is the same.
Colonialism does not explain why Emefiele stole billions.
History does not explain why modern Tinubu cannot maintain infrastructure, provide electricity as he promised, secure lives, or stop looting public funds.
If you claim colonialism is still a factor today, then you must also admit it had some developmental effects too. roads, railways, schools, courts, civil service structures, common language, and modern administration.
Double edge sword?
So no, I am not changing my argument. Colonialism may be part of history, but it is not an excuse for present-day greed, corruption, bad governance, and failure.
This is my point.
ALL of those things which you dismissed previously are and remain factors. Simple. And you have now admitted that, so you have ceded the debate.
And I have had to say it ad infinitum ad nauseum that none of that takes away the responsibility of leaders or means there aren't failings we need to correct. That's standard and human.
Now answer me in the name of Sango and on pain of being blasted by a fire from all Native deities: do you use AI to compose arguments?
bemeruca: You are the one lying and mischaracterizing what I said.
Maybe either you don’t understand English, or you are deliberately rewriting my point so you can argue with something easier.
This is what I said:
So why are you pretending I claimed an adult human being can live without ever making a selfish decision?
Why do you lie so much? This is why Tctrills and TV01 are also tired of you.
Oh, I admit I missed that. I did not see the "not."
But none of you have any smarts at all oh. So forget mentioning those people in proof of anything to me. . .
The bigger point is this, overall you are being terribly dishonest and trying to change everything you have argued here.
You and those same laughable fellows have variously spent pages dismissing the relevance of history, colonialism, climate, geography and even education, only for you to now turn up and concede that all those things matter and sneakily try to make it appear as though you always said that they did but were merely saying we are also responsible.
That is false. You outrightly and strenuously threw away those factors and even mocked me for mentioning them. And if your argument was what you are now claiming, we would never have had an argument.
Or do you want to deny laughing off all the history I have pointed out? Do you want to deny laughing off the relevance of climate? Do you want to deny laughing off the impact of colonialism? And geography? Do you want to deny even trying to play down the relevance of education? Do you want to deny completely rejecting the role of racism?
So how come you suddenly now admit that all these factors matter?
So quit the dishonesty at once. You have ceded the debate. Simple.
bemeruca: You cannot prove a negative. What are you on about. Goodlawd
You are doing too much emotiona rewriting here.
So what exactly is scientifically impossible?
That education can exist and people still choose corruption? That educated people can still be greedy? That educated people can still be tribalistic, racist, selfish, or dishonest?
That is not scientifically impossible. That is being human.
I do not worship Trump. I can criticize Trump on many things. I have criticized Trump. He was not even my choice for the 2024 presidency, it was DeSantis.
But this conversation is not about Trump. You keep dragging Trump in because you want to avoid the internal failures being discussed. Can you go a minute without deflecting to Trump?
What do you mean by white community, whatever your explanation of that is, I have multiple times. From LGBT, to Karens.
Ther is a difference between saying history matters and saying history removes responsibility.
There is a difference between saying colonialism had effects and saying African leaders, culture, corruption, tribalism, greed, and bad governance are not major reasons for failure today.
Your problem is not that I deny every factor you mention.
Your problem is that I refuse to let you use those factors as excuses to avoid the failures inside our own societies.
It is scientifically impossible for an adult human being never to have made a selfish decision in his life. The rest - not interested. You lie too much and you are going back on things you already vociferously argued.
I won't give it away but go over some of the posts and you can tell the structure of the arguments of the AI are similar and remarkably different the posts he doesn't use AI to write. Also, the grammar is noticeable cleaner, more complex and without a lot of errors.
IjeBos: AI wrote the post (the argument style is similar in all the posts AI writes for him), it sounded good(educated) to him but he didn't fully understand it. AI is a good tool, but you can't let it do the work for you.
Perhaps that explains it. I must confess I have noticed some strangeness in some of his posts, like it was a different person
bemeruca: Am not claiming to be morally perfect. Nobody is.
The point is not that I personally have never made a selfish decision.
+ This is scientifically impossible. It is also a signal of lack of intelligence that you can claim this.
Supporting a politician or political party does not mean endorsing every bad thing done by that politician or party. If Trump, Biden, Tinubu, Buhari, Obama, or anyone else acts corruptly, criticize it. I have no wahala with that
+ Name one thing you have criticized Trump over. A serious thing. .
If people can criticize white racism, Trump supporters, colonialism, slavery, capitalism, or British history, then they should also be able to criticize black communities, African leaders, tribalism, corruption, fatherlessness, crime, or bad culture without being accused of hatred.
+ Name one criticism you have ever levelled at any white communities/ societies.
My point is still that education matters, history matters, racism matters, colonialism matters, institutions matter.
+ Retract this hideous lie immediately. You have been here shouting about how these things do not matter or even do not exist. You have laughed off history, you have played down the relevance of education, you have denied every allegation of the existence of any racism at all, you have denied that colonialism has had any role to play.
Stop trying to change the script, this is hideous dishonesty.
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