₦airaland Forum

raumdeuter:
Environmental factors are responsible for lack of growth..

Now Sahara desert is also harsh? Another excuses drop

Excuses are like shoe sizes, you ill always find one that fits

It's not my problem if logic is your problem.

tctrills:
Mr excuses.
Did you know that native tribes in Peru developed tech to farm in the desert? Why does it have to be only excuses for Africa?

You know what. This is actually beginning to annoy me. Don't mention me again. Thanks.

tctrills:
This excuse is no longer valid. People living in the Sahara and Kalahari should also develop methods of agriculture in the desert and prevention of excessive heat that should force them into an organized lifestyle and efficient methods as a matter of survival

But then these excuses no longer make sense in the modern world.

We see what Israel is doing with the Negev, why are we not doing same?

Everything has a ripple effect over time. The barren Sahara is not the same as the Temperate Zone which is habitable and yields. What is possible with modernization is different from what shaped culture for millennia already. Every time you people keep comparing apples for oranges. Pls what excuse did Europe have for stagnating for one thousand years, tell me. I am sick and tired of you calling logic excuses. Enjoy yasef.

raumdeuter:
Thats the manner which a life of excuses come up. Some works for some, and it doesnt work for some

Just try using your grey matter. I didn't invent those academic studies and they were not done by leftist politicians either. They are done by seasoned anthropologists.

It's simple madness to deny that the environment influences lifestyle and to call the results excuses.

GloriousGbola:
https://thenationonlineng.net/dadiyatas-wife-im-sad-about-el-rufais-son-mocking-my-husbands-abduction/



where is deepsight to twist the knife in my back

Oh I guess this is about my comments on people being arrested for what they post or say.

tctrills:
Africa has about 30% of the world's unused arable land.
About 30% of mineral resources. Some of the best climate for renewables and a demographic that the rest of the world should envy

You are not thinking deeply.

You talk about culture as though it came from nowhere.

Look, people who live in a place where the land will freeze for half the year will necessarily invent methods of both heat and preservation and will be forced into an organized lifestyle and efficient methods as a matter of survival as opposed to people with fertile land and clement weather all year round.

TV01:
The one he doesn't believe in .

TV

Yahweh is not God.

raumdeuter:
What has the harsh Sahara desert one for us in Africa?

I explained the effect that had in locking us away from the connected old world which spanned the Mediterranean world all the way to China.

You have to be studious and thoughtful please. Not every harsh environment works. Some would kill you off. Some would render the whole race extinct. Some would be just harsh enough to force you to organise yourself.

TV01:
Thanks for capturing my post in full. It's been banned, as was I.

There is no gainsaying the forced alliance of the Nigerian nations was always going to prove problematic and almost certainly cause long-term harm.

However, likewise, you have to admit, the level of FD or civilisational quality (that would lend itself to driving a modern state) has nothing to do with the colonial invaders? Indeed, ill-thought out amalgamation apart, they would have left some artefacts that could aid that drive forward, no?

This is not a user case or journey experience. Just another claim. Why is it ludicrous, what evidence or data (apart references to long ago empires ), can you furnish to predict otherwise? Is there a blueprint we are tracking too? Signs of significant change that cannot be denied?

The world does not "evolve" in lockstep. And as I noted, there are trickledown, and crossover effects from the developed to the less developed. That does not remove real obstacles to development in certain regions.

The only solutions are one, a resolute defence. But by whom and on the basis of what? To what aim, other than survival and perhaps the chance to disaggregate, which would be most welcome and certainly make modern statehood more achievable for some of the constituents. The other is foreign intervention, which would hopefully reduce casualties and fallout, and hasten any split. But who wants that? Even as the foola issue is currently spreading across the Sahel.

"Starter for 10". A phrase from the quiz show university challenge. Used as an entry\warm-up question.


TV

You are essentially saying that black people are good for nothing and will end up in a rotten regressive mess even given long stretches of time such as centuries to build up.

Do you understand that this is your conclusion?

bemeruca:
Climate and geography are your craziest excuses.

You think I invented them? These things are well studied.

1. Harsh climate change was the primary driver in the development of civilization, according to new research by the University of East Anglia.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Severing-Climate-and-Civilization-35804.shtml

2. "The archaeologial and paleoenvironmental evidence is consistent with the notion that the development of complex societies in the Middle Holocene was largely the consequence of the responses of the precursor societies to deteriorating environmental conditions associated principally with the orbitally-driven weakening and southward retreat of the northern hempisphere monsoon belt."

http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2006/11/17/accidental_civilization

3. Climate change helped the Incas build civilisation

Their warfare, building and agricultural skills may have been impressive but, according to scientists in Peru, the Incas would have been nothing without good weather induced by climate change.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/5916353/Climate-change-helped-the-Incas-build-civilisation.html

4. Climate Changes Affect Ancient Civilizations: The role of climate in the development trajectory of the Near East, Greece, and Rome is discussed here -

http://www.suite101.com/content/climate-changes-affect-ancient-civilizations-a107526

5. Climate's Role in Ancient Chinese Civilization

A suddenly cold climate about 5,500 years ago coincided with the advent of ancient Chinese civilization, implying some relationship between the two events, Chinese scientists said Monday.

http://www.china.org.cn/english/2003/Feb/55500.htm

...One doesn't have to be a genius to know these things. The environment always has consequences on lifestyle and necessity is the mother of invention.

One has to be insane to deny either of these two statements.

Cc: TV01, basilico, raumdeuter, Tctrills, cococandy

TV01:
Good question. In short, hold or continued steady decline at best, wholesale failures and collapses at worst. There are probably a number of ways and various considerations to model this. And there will always be a degree of speculation and the "unknown, unknowns".

Taking a point from fairly recent history and looking at how things have changed more broadly and considering specific events, I personally see little or no reason to expect anything other than mostly regression - the questions to me are, how bad and how fast?

Let's hone in on a single phenom. Would you agree that the Fula, driven be notions of ethnic and sectarian supremacy have barely concealed expansionist desires? Their aim is for what I will call "Uthmania", built on what is Nigeria.

The pogrom is already underway. Yet Nigerian leaders are arguing semantics! Whether or not it is a "Xtian genocide". What it is is a gee.hard.dicide against every non-fula-moose.slim. With undeniable indications of state sponsorship.

This will not end unless the fula are vanquished or largely subdued, or they succeed. They have swept across the north, through the middle belt and are now insurgent in the more urban and cosmopolitan regions of the nation.

In a very real sense, I am happy for the best solution to prevail from a marketplace of worldviews, philosophies, belief-systems and ideas. But all the fula have to offer is a Nigerian shaped grazing area with the attendant share-ria laws and feudal overlords. Not even modern day style ranching. How will that lead to the modern day nation you claim all roads lead to?

You often refer to the wars and battles that developed nations have had to fight. Now there is one on your doorstep - not for progress, or advance, or for rights, but for survival! And it's quite clear that there is no stomach for it. An existential threat and there is more written about detty December!

Unless it is headed off at the pass, this is going to metastasize into civil war and chaos. At best, persist as low level outbreaks of carnage. It recommenced almost 20 years ago. When and how will it end? Or is this in your view not happening? or just one of the many things that must happen over a long time before Nigeria morphs into Sweden?

Your concern about the Fulani is well founded. I cannot resist pointing out that it was not black people that joined us at the hip with them. The mistake of 1914 thus haunts us and by your prediction will haunt us for a century more. Thus, you yourself concede to the over arching negative effects that sometimes can be seen from Colonialism!

Nonetheless it is ludicruous to imagine that we will only either stagnate or regress a hundred years from now.

Such a pessimistic view point is not rooted in any reasonable view of how the world is evolving. That sounds more like deep seated prejudice against all things African. Like Mrs. Gates saying that Africa would be full of corpses on the streets during COVID.

I don't believe we ever got into the details, it was mostly sweeping assertions, grand claims and optimism? Hopefully the starter for 10 above helps.


TV

What is 10 above?

cococandy:
Right? Besides black people are just naturally stipud right?. Except for the four and half of you on this thread.

Such that when black folks pass rigorous exams and get into medical school, we shouldn’t just believe it. Why would we. The facts in the white books don’t match that .

We need to sue them. Because how on earth can the naturally stipud black people finish their prerequisites, get premed degrees, pass the MCAT and get into med school?

They all agree with Kirk that all black Doctors don't deserve their degrees. ALL

tctrills:
One beautiful thing about the US is that the stats are there. We can see performance by race. Nothing is hidden.
So instead of asking how we can improve black results, what do leftist do, accuse Asians of racism.
Now, excellence is equated to racism

Is it beyond you that children from secure homes necessarily perform better than children from economically challenged homes or is this another excuse in your eyes? As in, you can put a hungry and homeless child beside a well fed and protected one in an exam and then attribute the failure of the disadvantaged one to laziness right?

But the point is even where you see any successful black person you will still like Kirk saying it's DEI.

In short they can never merit anything in your sight.
It's hopeless.

cococandy:
I guess he was supposed to give special treatment to black Americans only?

So that you and your racycists paymasters can say he was giving black Americans unmerited treatment?

Aside from that he talks as though being president, and such a dignified one at that, was not "doing anything" - not a single thing, to uplift the very status of blacks.

I am not an Obama fan for his attitude to Nigeria in particular but just look at that silly question.

tctrills:
Maybe it's because Asians pass exams.

And you would never consider that blacks pass any exams of course. Everything they get is a DEI gift, no be so?

tctrills:
Yes we can and should talk about cause.
But no where did you mention the blacks as part of the cause. It's always someone else to you.
Why is that foolish?
The best and fastest way to bring about change is by changing the things under your control.
You can't change climate and geography, you really can't change the white man. But we blacks can make changes on ourselves and societies.
So when you skip the black man as the main culprit, you can find solutions.
And why is it that whenever blacks like us talk about solution, you leftist shut us up, calling us racists and slaves.
Something is very wrong

False. We holistically state everything, including the faults of our people. And unlike you, also the causes of those faults.

You simply say white good black bad.

To say that that is lazy is an understatement.

tctrills:
No where have you spoken about the failures of the black man.
You blame God (climate and geography)
You blame the white man.
But the most important person in the equation, you leave out. Are you ever serious?

The simple law of cause and effect tells you that there is actually a cause, a reason, and explanation for everything in this world.

Pointing them out actually helps identify solutions.

It's only you and your ilk that see the legitimate explanations as excuses. Of course if I gave you explanations for white depravity you will not utter the word excuses.

I feel dirty interacting with you. Be off.

tctrills:
Oga provide solution.
The explanation of slavery, colonization and segregation no longer exist. There is basically nothing the whites can do to save the black race. It's entirely in your hands but you are a leftist, you have to blame the whites

In everything I have written, I guess the climate, the geography are also white men.
Please go away.

You and your views are most unwanted.

tctrills:
Leftist and tantrums. The West Bank produces nothing yet has a higher standard of living than most of Africa. You leftists need to read more

Good morning.

tctrills:
I don't know where you get your news from but under affirmative action, black kids who scored 20% lower than whites and Asians were admitted to elite colleges.
Just a month ago, blacks had their own segregated districts because they were viewed too weak to compete politically with the rest of America.
The major reason why the leftists oppose voter I'd is because they feel blacks are incapable of getting an ID.
You have become a pampered class just like the Palestinians. And pampered people never learn to compete.
You love going back in history to show racism so let me take you back.
The founder of Planned Parenthood Margaret Sanger the biggest abortion provider in US stated their goal "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,"
In 1926, Sanger spoke to the women’s auxiliary of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) in New Jersey to promote birth control methods,
So when you talk about systemic racism, just know that the abortion of the black baby was part of the plan. But even at that, I insist that we take responsibility and resist.

Palestinians are pampared?
Sick. Shift.

tctrills:
Excuses excuses excuses
Let's talk solution.
No 2 nations have the same history but the key to growth remains the same, good leadership and the right social cultures and habits.
A culture that encourages innovation, adventure, creativity, hardwork and honesty.

You talk as though a phenomenon cannot have a legitimate explanation. And that any such explanation is an excuse. At all events, you are still under excommunication and the watch of serpents and scorpions as a potential trafficker in humans.

TV01 you mentioned that at least one nation has "cut and paste" development. Which is that pray tell? UAE? Singapore? If its these nations you have in mind, my answer is that these are micro homogenous states and cannot be compared to complex behemoths like Nigeria. Singapore is a single city for pete's sake, with barely a quarter of the population of Lagos!

Secondly the circumstances and histories still remain different.

This does not mean that we are not encouraged to do better, we really have to do much better.

tctrills:
I remember asking you what you propose or your suggestions to lift black America. Your answer was basically do nothing. Then again you added that systemic racism should be stopped.

I am tired of this kind of mischaracterization of what one says.
.

They tell you that you can't get into university unless the requirements are lowered. We call it quota system in Nigeria, we tried it on the north, how did it go?

PS: No one lowers requirements in America.

basilico:
You are suggesting that those jailed and pardoned deserve no compensation.
Around 300 were jailed on a charge that the Supreme Court ruled was illegally stacked up on them.
What you suggest happens to these 300.
The prosecutors prevailed upon the judges to impose maximum enhanced sentences stemming from that charge
It was a loose interpretation of the law passed to prevent another Enron situation
What you say?

Regarding J6 ,why did J6 Committee destroy the evidence they collected.Why were they all pardoned.
Who was the legal consultant to the J6 and what other lawfare had she been engaged in since 2016 after taking over from John Carlin.

Just my advice, You better not comment on matters where you have not heard the other side .

Are you seriously asking me why J6 people were pardoned? Are you joking?

basilico:
The insurrection was instigated by FBI .
Get that through your head.
Those jailed for merely exercising first amendment rights need compensation.
They wanted Trump permanently to cover their crimes. You are a victim of the liberal lies.

QAnon talk. Flat Earth Talk.

Goo0dHardDick:
Atiku will never smell presidency ever again. I'd rather vote kwankwaso than to vote Atiku the greedy f..ool

What happened in 2019 when he teamed up with obi? Dude, Obi can and mustn't be vice to Atiku. Is obi a kid to you?

We're going to be OK!

If Bola returns, it's Obis single handed doing.

jchioma:
It’s obvious that Amaechi will become Atiku’s vice in the absence of any credible candidate but Nigerians will decide who will win las las.

That's if Nigerians are ready to flood the polls next year and defend their choice. If not, it will be the choice of Bola and a few of his arch local and foreign cultists.

happney65:
"want to copy former President Obasanjo, he is a Nationalist. You might not like him, I had disagreements with him, but he is a Nigerian President, not a Yoruba President"

Dass all.

But Tinubu supporters who are mostly closest tribalists do not like Obasanjo. To them Obasanjo is not Yoruba enough and they hate him with all their strength

But the one that claims he is yoruba enough,his region is nearly over ran by terrorists with school kidnapping happening. As in unbelievable. While the so called yoruba president is helpless

I trust OBJ. Obasanjo's shoot at sight at members of the OPC who went haywire in the early 2000's nipped the crises in the bud once and for all.

Baba Iyawo fún ara e.

Actually there is a class and group of Yoruba who firmly believe that Obasanjo is Igbo.

elder1002:
The best there was and there is

4 premier league in a row

Set the bar so high that you need to be consistent to win the league cup.

Master tactician and strategist

Converts average players to play one of the beautiful football ever seen in premier league


The best manager there ever was in premier league.

Pep




*Why Pep edges Fergie in the first 10 years*

Look at it straight up: *20 trophies in 10 years vs 6*. That’s not a small gap.

*1. He won more, and he won bigger*
Pep’s haul at City from 2016-2026:

*6 Premier Leagues,
1 Champions League,
5 League Cups,
3 FA Cups,
3 Community Shields,
1 UEFA Super Cup,
1 Club World Cup*.

That’s 4 titles in a row from 2021-2024 – no English club has ever done that. 100 points, 98 points, 93 points seasons. He didn’t just win, he broke the ceiling of what winning looks like in the PL.

Fergie in his first 10 years at United 1986-1996:
*3 PLs,
1 FA Cup,
1 League Cup,
1 Cup Winners’ Cup*.

Respect to the rebuild, but the output isn’t close.

*2. He did it in a tougher league*

Pep’s City had to beat peak Klopp Liverpool, this Arsenal team, and a Chelsea side spending crazy money just to get to May with the title. Every game in the PL now is a fight. Fergie’s early dominance came before the money flooded in and before every mid-table team had a tactical coach and data team.

*3. He changed the game, not just his club*
Go to any academy or watch any PL game now and you’ll see Pep’s fingerprints. Inverted fullbacks, controlled possession, pressing traps, false nines. Managers across Europe copied him because it worked. Fergie was a master man-manager and could adapt, but he didn’t set the tactical blueprint for the next 20 years.

*4. He delivered in Europe when it mattered*

City’s first ever Champions League in 2023, plus 6 straight semis in 10 years. The UCL now is a minefield – every knockout tie is against another billion-pound squad. Fergie didn’t even get to a UCL final in his first 10 years.

*5. He kept it going without falling off*
Pep rebuilt that City squad 3 times. KDB aging, Aguero leaving, Cancelo drama, still they win. The system outlives the players. Fergie’s first 10 years was about building the culture. Once it was built, the trophies came in waves. Pep had the waves immediately.

---

Fergie built United from the ground up and that deserves respect. But if we’re talking pure results, dominance, and impact on the game in the first 10 years, *Pep’s numbers and influence are on another level*.

20 trophies. 4 in a row. Changed how football is played. That’s the argument.

Nice write up except that you dubiously left our the biggest factor. Access to interminable and unprecedented money.

TV01:
Not so fast. I'm not that easy. You will yield first - I prefer the left knee .


TV

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!



I don't agree with your position. I feel that we have succinctly expressed our views and that's why there is no need for a detailed rebuttal anymore. What is necessary now is to extract from you what you forsee. And I expect that you will have no choice but to admit that in due course time will heal the concerns. Once that is the case you will have to be the one to bend the knee.

TV01:
As my responses always are

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but given it persists, perhaps naive me should not have. My main thrust is the civilisational levels arising from different cultural milieux - not race, ethnicity or colour. I don't actually believe in those things as markers in any meaningful way. Or a basis for explaining anything that is not peripheral at best. I understand that some ideologies, worldviews or belief systems may make a thing of them, but mine does not, and I don't. I consider use of terms such as "white people" to be strawmanning.

Of course, to a degree. Just as long distance runners will develop differently to weight-lifters. But the differences will be peripheral in a sense, as at core they remain built of the same stuff. Culturally, it's can be different to several orders magnitude - not due to colour or ethnicity.

Some may try and fuse the two. But it fall's apart when you factor in the the Biblical narrative regards sin and death. Hopefully God is just after faith in Christ and this can be a 2nd order matter - although it can damage the underpinnings of faith. But we digress.

My take on the role of climate differs from yours - whatever climatic, or other hinderances men faced, they should serve as spurs for development, hurdles to scale, not reasons for failing to develop.

As noted, I see this as strawmanning, I don't see it as the development of different races, more the outworking of different cultural milieux. Including historical events and experiences, tradition, custom, religion, mythology, and all the other things that feed into a people' or nations culture and consciousness.

On the way to where. One of the underpinning assertions of your thesis is that all roads lead to development. On what basis? Indeed, you reference to historical eras and empires cuts both ways, as firstly, they all crumbled eventually and secondly, there would have been many we don't know of, or refer to, that were never able to establish themselves as nations or independent people groups.

The bible says "if you say you see and say you have no sin, then your sin remains". Now that all nations can "see" what development looks like, there are no excuses. What the laggard nations have repeatedly shown is that they don't have the will or the wherewithal to outwork their antecedents. They always revert to type.

What I expect is that they will revert to what is inherent. Newly independant nations have navigated their way to success. A plan can be forged, a pathway determined, a blueprint drawn up. I admit that, ethnic and sectarian differences, literacy levels and other things can all serve to hinder, but if the will and vision (and pre-cursor civilisational levels) are there it will come to pass. Even if it's a long road.

It doesn't matter, it's the cultural and consciousness response - regardless of the events, which may well be similar.

You continue to make the case against your own hypothesis? Notions of individual freedoms, rights, liberties and association, patriotism, a sense of commonwealth, strong institutions and the rule of law to which all are equally subject cannot arise sustainably and at scale from the majority, if not all, of cultural milieux that exist in Africa, not just BA.

Answered this above. And please note, wars, strife and conflict are not necessarily drivers for advance or development.

Screams paucity.

Or an African looking people group could have. They could also have been favoured as human sacrifices by the other locals

I'm a creationist. I believe all mankind originated from Adam via Noah. Probably somewhere Africa'ish, but to me it's a moot point.

Doesn't follow that ultimately a fully functioning nation will evolve. Time and chance happen to all men. Because all go to school, doesn't mean all will graduate or advance to higher education, or take masters or doctorate degrees.

But yet at least one other natoion has cut and paste rapid development. Thus falsifying your arguement.

The old "billions and billions" . Apart the fact that "democracy" is not the only way to govern or run societies, neither is it the only way to do so successfully., even if it's the best? It doesn't mean that it is the obligatory outcome for every people group or nation. Kraal life baybay .

Do the feudal Fula look like they will ever take to democracy? Or not corrupt it beyond recognition. Perhaps you see the Somali with VAWA legislation and full LGBTQ&^%$£ representation . Oga, get use to my term "inherency", you can't escape it. Those tribes travelled to where they are culturally over millenia, and that path is not the way to the enlightenment or modernity your describe. What you portray is somewhere between a hard cope and a fantasy.

But boko is haram ? They are killing and willing to be killed for that. But oh yeah, but after billions and billions...

Let's be honest, where there has been development and advance, it has been foisted upon! And as certain parts of the world continue to progress technologically, some things will travel just because. Afterall, mobile phones made it to Africa, as have a host of other gadgets
But you can have modern appurtenances in a backward society. There will always be flows now e have conquered climate, distance and to a degree time. But what makes a people place high on the civilisational hierarchy is "inhenrency" .

There will always be civilisation, it's just to what degree. To form and sustainably maintain a modern western style democracy or something that closely mimics it, especially at scale, requires a certain cultural milieu, or FD as you would say . Only a few nations\peoples have acquired it. So whether it is foisted upon those that don't, they attempt to imitate it or, they move in large numbers to a ready made one, it cannot hold,

Let me leave you with this, Jeremiah 17:9 - “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?


TV

^{...last edited at 23.30 GMT. Please do not respond to any cuts prior to that time. Danke!}

Thank you again. All said and done, let me ask you what your expectation is of African nations one hundred years from now.

JuanDeDios:
Wait, Mr Abure is still forming chairman of LP?

Ol' boy e tire me oh

Xxxxxx