₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
When I say "cause", I mean it as a thing that makes things happen. And in my own opinion, nothing happens without a cause. Gods, however, must be defined as you have here, as an "uncaused cause", which is not a possibility to my atheistic mind. An atheist's usual retort is, even God must have a cause. And I have stated that that cause of the gods is we humans who create gods to explain things we have no knowledge of what caused it, just as you are doing here. It is like claiming the cause of the universe was a big bang, without addressing the fact that something big must have existed to go bang, sing bangs are often caused by something.

A more appropriate and honest response when we do not know what caused a thing is to simply say, we don't know, instead of inserting an uncaused god into the gap of our ignorance. We are after all talking about a cause that happened like 13 billion years ago, when we know that our knowledge gets very shaky and speculative after like 200,000 years ago, if not 20,000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

As far as I am concerned, your "uncaused cause" God has a cause, as in gods have creators. And those creators and causes of the gods are we humans. It is the reason there are so many gods, for all gods are created in the image of we humans who create gods in our own image and according to our own understanding.

The below is the problem of infinite regression that is being avoided by an "uncaused cause" instead of admitting one just doesn't know what caused a thing to happen or be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

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All this is elementary. Will respond later.

budaatum:
I always do, or at least try to, return insults with compliments, Deep. Its the turn the other cheek nature of mine.

My opinion is that those who insult are frustrated at not being able to put their points across well enough, and I might have not put mine across in a way that could be understood as intended. Its after all not the case that we can always put our points across as accurately as we intend they be received, as this thread has shown.

Know that I am an atheist, contrary to whatever Triplechoice might have claimed to have proven here. I do not accept that any gods have ever existed, and everything we call god (in all its disguises) is created by us human beings and rightly so, since our knowledge of the universe was limited when gods were being created, and mostly still is.

Also know that I am of the opinion that we are better off for the creation of our gods, though that creation also creates some very bad unintended consequences. If there were no Bible (or Qur'an etc), we humans might be without any software, and would be like computers without an operating system. Those books if read as you suggested, "from start to end", and not merely dipping all over the place like church reading encourages, make us better human beings, and we'd be brutes without them, is my opinion.

You mentioned the Bible justifying slavery in another thread, and I'd have gone further and claimed the story of Adam and Eve was a creation of the concept of slavery, though I know well enough that slavery predates the Bible.

On the flip side however is intelligent non-believing Eve checking (doing deep sight) with her own senses to find if true that she would die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to see if it would truly kill her, only to find it pleasing to the eye and good for gaining wisdom. And it empowered her to free herself and that naked ignorant believing Adam from slavery, where they are written to have gone on to be self employed and populated the entire earth, we read.

Now, I personally think that from the above, I'd be accused of satan worship, because I am implying that “God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil”. But I guess sights are not yet deep enough for that to be seen, or people are just being too kind to budaatum.

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For starters, you already agreed that there is a cause of reality/ the universe.
So if I tell you that my definition of God is simply that uncaused cause. That permanent and necessary factor.

Would you say such does not exist?

budaatum:
I do not agree that you "sef be rat and ant", sorry.

Least that is not my own opinion of you based on the evidence you have presented to me. For I read your monicker and assume you look deep, and take it as advice that I should look deep too.

That's how much power I choose to invest in you, and for such am I full of gratitude to you.

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How nice Buda. You have returned my insults with compliments. Now that's Christ-like.
Oya, we can be friends again.

Let revisit our discussion on the existence of God.

budaatum:
You are only here because you were mentioned, but consider me a rat or ant when my moniker is the actual thread title?

Now that's something, I dare say, and in fact find it rather odd that you are not a rat or ant for not ignoring your mention and participating in this thread, but think I must be a rat or ant for participating when I am the thread's actual topic. But I guess it might be a case of different rules for you and I or just plain double standardism.

Personally, I do take interest when people start a whole thread about me, and most especially if that thread is created to investigate or accuse me of things. They may have their facts upside down, but I still consider the feedback and views and opinions to be invaluable information about those who provide it.

Take yours for instance. You say you "mostly skipped", and from your limited observation, conclude "rat or ant", which allows me to infer something about you and how you reason, which is just pure gold.

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Abeg me sef be rat and ant.
Good night.

budaatum:
Oh! Are you saying I should not be worth my own time, and if I do I'm a toad or ant?

Now that would be very interesting indeed, and makes me curious about what you'd call those who spend their own time responding to posts by those they consider a toad or an ant for spending their own toad or ant time on themselves.

Care to tell please?

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Ah well, if I was not mentioned, I would not even follow the discussion (which I have mostly skipped).

If I were you, I would ignore the conversation entirely.

If I I were triplechoice, I would not bother bringing it up.

End of.

budaatum:
I'm going, for the sake of it, elevate them higher than rats or toads because I think rats and toads have very different priorities than an interest in anything to do with some insignificant individual called budaatum on a Nigerian forum, and nor do I want to insult rats and toads.

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For clarity, I do not refer to Triplechoice alone.

I refer to you as well.

budaatum:
This thread kind of shows its worth some people's time, don't you think?

Its after all not like everyone's time has equal value, it seems to me.

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Perhaps worth the time of a toad or an ant.

Kukutente23:
When Jesus was on earth, he was the Son of Man and not Son of God. So he was not God. But he retained in him the power and the glory of God being born of the Holy Spirit.

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Do you know who the Grail Message says the Son of Man is?

Besides, this is just another excuse for the inexcusable doctrine of the Trinity, which can never be defended.

Always learn to read. Don't let your fingers be faster than your eyes or is it mind?

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You should take this advice too. On many subjects you are ridiculously stubborn. You claimed that BH became militant during the time of GEJ. When shown to you that they became militant in the time of Yaradua, you could not even say, ooops, my bad. Pride. Lack of reading. Fingers faster than anything and ego of course is your problem.
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I will not even go into the obvious issue that an African could be descended from a Mongolian. Or the fact that Yaradua is nowhere seen to have made allegations against Obasanjo (personally, not hearsay).

I asked why you keep praying "for" Muhammad long after he's dead since you claim he was a sinless and perfect prophet. Is peace eluding him in death?

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We all know the character of Moh. I keep trying to describe him but each time I do so, I am banned. His fault, not mine.

For if you have a problem with Jesus praying to God and now being equated to God[quote]+
No matter how you explain it, it can never make sense for God to be praying to God. Jesus is not God. He was a man like you and me.

[quote]you should be able to explain why you're praying "for" a dead man whom you claimed to be perfect. Moreso you're praying for him to have peace!!

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Moh, wherever he is, cannot ever know peace.

Ifexibe:
Deal. Where, when, how are we meeting?

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No need to meet.

Just show me the evidence.

Of what element in the body transits to a different realm.

End of story.

Ifexibe:
Hope you're not Maxwell, the guy that sells laptops?

I just want to clarify.

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Lol.
Saying I am Maxwell is like saying that the sun is black.

LordReed:
Bwahahahahahaha! My dear budaatum you have been very cheeky. See how they are falling all over themselves to describe you. I hold you responsible. LoLz.

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The whole thing is not worth anyone's time. Surprised at the level of obsession over strangers.

Ifexibe:
Pay me $100, I will explain everything for you.

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Wait. Dont go for cheap. I will pay 100K Dollars if you can explain it.
With evidence.

Sonofgod1990:
Na poverty

Don't you know someone can collect 1k from someone just to assassinate somebody?

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God have mercy.

Sonofgod1990:
Yes
It was 15k during buhari time
But tinubu brought it down to 12k

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But why would anyone sell their soul for such a mess of porridge?

Sonofgod1990:
It's 12k not 30k

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You shua say no be 2k?

Yahoo Boys no dey rest.

Dtruthspeaker:
Nearly 50.

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Alright. So am I. So calm down.

Funny, I have never done so. I actually started during COVID but even this year I am still at Deuteronomy 6 or 7 or 8 (if I open the bible, I will remember where I stopped)

But however, thanks to years of churching and opening and closing the bible, a lot of scriptures have been visited by me, so I am confident enough to be familiar with the Bible

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This is a fundamental problem. I, who am not a Christian have read the Bible several times back to back. Therefore this is why I ask this question, because you may not understand what Judaism is and the transition to Christianity. There is no way you can say Judaism is pagan and Christianity is not. The fundamental ideas of sacrifices for forgiveness of sins rest in Judaism and it is said that God decided to sacrifice his own son as well. You have to get that point.

There a lot of things to explain here. Look at Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son. That is used as an example of how God would in fact sacrifice his son.

Not that these things are true, but if you look at the Old Testament and say its pagan, there is simply no New Testament that is not pagan.

Dtruthspeaker:
Hmm! I hope you would not ad hominem me.

I am probably a lot older than you

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If you are 50 and above, you can say that. If not, no worries.

Just answer the questions - you can give a ball park. For example you can say, yes I am University educated, in Nigeria/ Elsewhere. In arts or sciences. And I am in my 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, etc.

There is a reason I am asking this question.

However if you dont wish to answer, its of course your prerogative in terms of privacy.

One more question would be if you have read the Bible back to back.

Dtruthspeaker:
Why is this important? Are you about to ad hominem me?

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I didn't say its important. Its just a question. If you dont wish to answer, just say so. End of story.

Dtruthspeaker:
Oh! I understand. You were standing on the popular claim that Judahism is the foundation of Christianity, whereas it is not, as I proven in this thread.

Which is why you got frustrated as you real eyes that suddenly all your ammos are gone.

Meanwhile you are finding it very difficult to swallow the undisputable Truth.

So, sorry, this is just a case of
We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter" by Denis Diderot.

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What school did you go to, and how old are you?

Dtruthspeaker:
Why are you angry and have given up so soon?

Oh! Just say that you find that there is reasonable argument to make and dispute this so you are running away as you did not know that this is the answer and that I would say it for this is the Origin and trail of Christianity.

And you already knew that you cannot validly challenge it

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I am done.
Judaism, in which the whole of Christianity is rooted, the whole of the Old Testament, is pagan.

At least you can see a pagan book is part of your bible.

Dtruthspeaker:
The thread says so.

Christianity comes directly from God!.

First, it was through Abraham, then Moses, then the prophets and then God's Son, The BRANCH came to close it. And that is why He Said "it is Finished"

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You are joking.
I am done with this nonsense.

Dtruthspeaker:
This thread proves that Judah ism is paganism

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Right.

So where did Christianity come from if not from Judaism?

LordReed:
I agree that it can be therapeutic so are some other practices like meditation and mindfulness. What I don't agree with is the spiritual or god components most people like to inject into it. To me it turns it into a fairytale.

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Bang on point.

LordReed:
Abi o! They even tell you that it is vampires that drink blood then they tell you to drink blood symbolically or spiritually, no be kolomentality be that.

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Complete kolomentality!

Look at Indians, they are confident in their traditions. Look at Japan, they are confident in their traditions.
Why are we Africans so enslaved that we despise ourselves and see anything to do with our traditions as demonic.

That is the mental slavery that Europeans brought. Meanwhile they have liberated themselves from such ideas and we continue still.

Damn!

Jakumo:
All things considered, I would still select dog meat from the menu, instead of that stone-hard camel meat (Rakumi Surprise) that is known to damage human teeth, especially if I was already suffering from malnutrition because my cult followers forgot to send my usual Ofe Mmanu from Little Owerri in London, all the way down to Sokoto Maximum Punishment Prison, where I might have been elected as the Eze Ndi-German Cell, with all rights and privileges implied.

In summary, just SHOW ME DI LAW !!

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Uncle Jaks you no go kill pesin with laugh.
Kai!

Jakumo:
But I don't see any federal character reflected in the menu I am seeing here.

Where is the Isi Ewu stew?

Where is the Ogbono stew?

Where is the Nkita 404 Stew?

Where is the Ofe Mmanu?

And finally, Where is di law??

Can't you just show me di law??

You don't know di Law because I AM DI LAW

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404 is dog meat, abeg leave am for our Calabar people.

Unbiased1:
Rightly said. It is up to the neighbour to say "you shall never be an independent state" especially after the enemy has tried to destroy the neighbor in 1929 Jewish massacre in Hebron, 1948 Arab - Israel war (war of independence), 1967 2nd Arab - Israel war, 1973 3rd Arab Israel war, 1st Intifada, 2nd Intifada, Israel Palestine wars of 2008, 2014, 2021 and 2023. How many more wars does Israel have to fight before it can say "enough is enough", these guys must vanish for good so I can have peace?

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You are harsh. But I like you. For your intellect.
I will revisit this subject later today with an epistle.

kentebemoney:
Bro! It's obvious that these scriptures are not a defense of slavery, hence!! Other Christians heard these "defense" and still corrected the error of slavery, a plus for the "Christian Civilization".
Now was it not men who were Christian or drew their morals from the Bible that brought about a Civilization that has blessed this world

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Oga, dont deflect. I am ready for all your questions. You asked me what verses in the Bible were used to defend slavery. I provided them, I did not write them. They are there in black and white, both OT and NT.

You asked for the verses. At least first be honest and admit they exist.

Stop running around.

Dtruthspeaker:
Nope.

My position is simply that Christianity is not a pagan religion.

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Alright.

Is Judaism a pagan religion.

Is Islam a pagan religion.

Is Buddhism a pagan religion.

Is Hinduism a Pagan religion.

Start with these, just yes or no for each.

SkengRay:
infact he knows nothing he just gobbles up everything his Religion tells him without questioning any part of it.

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Neither does he have the intelligence or depth of knowledge for the subject.

SkengRay:
Please Stick to logic. Counter it you can but don't results to insults we are all Adults here and act like one. That's is Valid point . Or you want me to explain what a Ritual is?

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He has no clue what a ritual is.