₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
🤨Nice chatting with you. You didn't disprove anything. Just redundancy over and over again. I didn't use such cheap tactic by asking you, "whether you were the one typing?". But you will rather ask such mundane questions that we have exemplified under physical constraints🤦🏾‍♂️.

Every decision is known and if God wills to do something he configures or guides the actors to fulfill this decision with both subject to free will!—"Configure" as it relates to circumstances and "guide" as it relates with alignment!

I wasnt writing for you. For future readers.
I knew you would never be reasonable - even when you wrote a clear admission which ended the discussion.
You simply didnt realize it, which shows you are not up to such discussions.

I only used minimal effort by the way.

You may not realize another admission is in the bold.

Gabrielshow24:
how does it negate free will? 🤨The actors still exhibit their agency of choice when interacting with such circumstance!🤨

It's clearly observer bias on your part! You just want to see what you want to see!

I am done. You ceded the debate. I will not go round in circles.

Gabrielshow24:
Now I am arguing that "exactly" is bound by a specific circumstance!

Probably, you haven't gotten this, either!
As long as I know all circumstances, I can ensure that one specific circumstance will occur. 🤨

Why is this so hard for you both to understand? This is why Gms go for specific positions that are winning!

As long as I can achieve these specific positions, I know I am winning!—it becomes an inevitable and irrefutable win!

The bold ends this discussion.

@FreeIgboho - see.

Gabrielshow24:
I didn't say, I did. I said decisions have been known before I existed!

Isnt it obvious then that you didnt make those decisions?
Its absurd to say that the decisions of a free creature were known before it existed.

Raf4:
Apapa port was established in 1913 and the construction of 1st 4 deep water berths started in 1921.
Lagos Airport was initially built during 2nd World War.
Carter bridge was built in 1901.
Lagos - Abeokuta railway was opened in 1898, got to Ibadan in 1902.
As far back as 1860s, Lagos already got electricity, telephone, post office, Schools, City Hall, recreation centres, Cathedrals, public & private hospitals, tarred roads, business districts and international trade centres etc.
As you can see, many of the developments in Lagos occurred b4 amalgamation and formationofNigeria. So, Lagos was majorly developed by the locals and colonial masters, using revenues generated from Lagos and other parts of Western Region.

You people!

Funny as anything.

Dont worry, its the creation of Britain and the Yoruba in all ways, to the eclusion of anything from anywhere else in Nigeria.

Happy?

Christistruth03:
It was the British government who differentiated between it both during Colonisation , before independence and after independence

You Probably don’t know that the British Governor Capt Glover and the Egbas of Abeokuta fought over Ebutte Meta which the Egba Army Controlled in addition to the entire Lagos Mainland
The Ijebu Army controlled everything North and East of Lekki and the Oyo Army of Alaafin controlled Badagry Area and all the
way to Porto Novo

That was how the British Colonial Government met things on Ground when they arrived in 1851

Ijebu Egba and Oyo had spent almost a Century fightIng over the Lagos Coast and it had ended in a 3 way Draw

The Egbas also took Iddo Island and Could have taken Lagos Island but decided it would cost them too many men to
Capture Lagos Island because of the Sea Warfare that would have been necessary


It in the End it was the Egba Christians who Brought the British into the Conflict as allies of the Egbas
that was when the British Bombarded Lagos and Replaced Oba Kosoko with Oba Akitoye as Oba of Lagos
Oba Akitoye’s mother was from Abeokuta and he had been living at Abeokuta after seeking refuge there

Please who built the International Airport/ 3ML Bridge/ Sea Ports.
If the goal is to claim that only the capital area was developed by the FG and the Western Regional / Lagos Govts did all the rest, you are wasting your time.

Gabrielshow24:
Mind you, different circumstances warrant different EXACT options 🤨. Hence an omniscient God deals with circumstances that warrant an exact choice from a person. Like in the case of Peter, his fear of death 👀, warranted the exact choice he made!

How's this hard to understand 🤨? The same Peter when given the chance a second time gladly embraced it🧐. He suggested according to history to be crucified upside down 🤤—Such humility in death.

The same way the biblical prophecy was fulfilled as regards the conquest of Babylon, a very specific circumstance was in play!

There is nothing like different exact options. Another square circle.

No offense, no insult oh, but can you clue me on to your age (you dont have to be specific) and if you have ant background in philosophy? Your church, if any, and how long you have been a Christian?

Gabrielshow24:
You keep using this mundane strategem that do not avail you much!

Have we not settled this earlier that all your "special pleadings" are under constraints you and I don't have an handle on?

That's God will or divine prerogative, mine is to do his will with the choice he has given me!

You are wasting your time.

You cannot make a decision before you existed.

Res ipsa loquitur.

Gabrielshow24:
The same way people know about the choices of others even before they are played out on the board.

That's why I said God knows all the possible moves that could be ever played! You decide what move from this set to play! It doesn't negate the fact that such a move is already known.

Be it before the foundation of the world, be it deep into the future. All possible choices and their outcomes are known. The actors when present will choose their own.

Are you challenged? How many times do I have to repeat that its not the choices/ options that God knows? It is EXACTLY what you will do.
Before he made you.

Were you there?

Gabrielshow24:
what aspect of this is funny to you? Every man decides his fate!

You decide before you existed right?

LordReed:
That's a different matter. It exists we don't need arguments to determine that.

Ah I wasn't discussing its existence.

Gabrielshow24:
🤔Put right by who? 🤨

Such misleading remarks are uncalled for. Probably, from your non-existent freewilled mind. As far as it stands, not you, not Deepsight have been able to show, be it logically, mathematically that the subset of choices you have are not your own! This alone warrants a revisitation to your mindsets!

You keep jumping from pillar to post in this futile bid to dismiss free will. I wonder why👀.
What aspect of his omniscient wasn't in view? He told him what they will do it him. Was this negated in any form? Paul chose to go, he embraced whatsoever was in store for him. This was even evident in his letter.

You just choose to see, the non-existent of free will, in everything. With the plethora of biblical use cases that I brought to the table, you still saw what you wanted to see. Even with phrases such "he obeyed", "had an heart to fulfill" etc you still cry, " no free will".

Just pure redundancy!

What sub sets of choices when your creator knew the only thing you would do before you existed?

Are you sure you are reasoning?

I said, before you existed.

How were you able to choose that result before you existed?

Go and sit down.

Gabrielshow24:
What aspect of knowing options, doesn't encapsulate an option. I know with certainty these are the options available for you. Irrespective of whatsoever you choose my certainty remains and my words have not failed!

Making sense of religion leads people to try to justify absurdities.

Stop being funny. It's not a matter of knowing the options. It is knowing EXACTLY what option WILL be chosen EVEN BEFORE the creature was made.

That can never mean that the creature really had options. He didn't.

Gabrielshow24:
what aspect of this is funny to you? Every man decides his fate!

I have also pointed out to your friend that some scripts are impartial to object id, or identity. They are there and will be fulfilled on whosoever gives himself to them. Luke17:1

You choose an outcome already certain before you existed?

Keep joking.


As regards God and man no it doesn't work. Also there are way too many differences.

Man can sin, God cannot.

Man cannot raise himself from the dead, God cannot even die.

Man is imperfect, God is perfect.

Man is corruptible, God is not.

I can go on and on.

To claim that anyone is fully man, he must have all the frailties, weaknesses and limitations of man. Which man knows that when he dies he will rise in three days? Which man says before Abraham was I AM? Which man does a transfiguration? Which man says he sat by the right hand of the Father? Which man was born by a virgin? This last one in fact ends the discussion because if anyone's mother was impregnated by the Holy Spirit, that is simply not a man at all.

I don't like the dishonest way you try to say that squares can be circles.

LordReed:
What do you mean defies explanation? The brain has evidence of its existence.

I mean the process by which it came to exist. It's waaaaaaaaaay too super a computer for any explanation such as, oh, it evolved through natural selection, or oh, it just exists. Evolution does not explain the human brain - which is by orders of magnitude more complex than any computer in existence.

Gabrielshow24:
As regards God, that's rather simple. Finity exists within infinity 👀. Hence if he wills he can assume whatsoever limit he chooses for himself.

Your submissions are still flawed, even though you don't affirm both concepts it doesn't negate the coexistence of such. Scripture and logic warrants such reconciliation! Nothing more, nothing less.

God sees all that you can do, but you choose your outcome. That's the core message of the scripture, man has free will!

You choose your outcome which God knew before you existed?

Lol. Keep joking

Globad:
The headline is misleading

It's more of ex-communicating him.

SDP said; “Having confirmed that he publicly declared for the ADC and continued to act in a manner contrary to the principles and practices of the SDP, the party has no option but to disassociate and excommunicate him.

You can only excommunicate a member.
Just say he is not a member, finish.

LordReed:
I agree with the core premise of this submission which is why I have no place for these arguments for god. Any real phenomenon has incontrovertible evidence of its existence. We see nothing in this universe that subverts this notion, gods will not be an exception especially if they supposedly do things in this universe.

The human brain is in this universe and it defies explanation.
I know your answer is evolution but as with the human eye, its still hard to justify.

Jakumo:
Wow this is an unexpected revelation. I say this because physical fitness is clearly not a priority for the vast majority who comprise Nigeria's over-40 crowd of both genders. My presumption had always been that in a nation of men proudly sporting massive 7-month pregnancy beer guts who regard physical exercise with disdain, there would be a precipitous decline in sexual performance for most Nigerian men whose disregard for the benefits of fitness ensures they are "over the hill" in bedroom athletics and indeed in all things physical by age 40.

I cannot say definitively whether it is my lifelong rigorous weight-lifting and yoga regime that have thus far exempted me from any hint of erectile dysfunction, or whether my love for connoisseur-grade cannabis might be a contributing factor to my superb track record, but since I don't plan to quit either of those two cherished disciplines even for experimental purposes, I can only surmise that for me, staying fit, strong and righteously high works very well to the delight of all the women with whom I have shared carnal knowledge.

God breast Nigeria!

This man! U remain the greatest Nairalander of all time.

As per sexual performance in latter years, I am not saying there isnt a decline. I am just saying they still do it, even at surprisingly advanced ages. Often though, some pass on during the exertions.

Gabrielshow24:
Group posting above? that's vague. Do you mean to include Deepsight in this? 🤨

Even at that, bandwagon fallacy doesn't affirm the truth. Also, what "no free will" situation?
All your arguments doesn't negate free will, it emphasizes a coexistence of dynamic and static objects, objective and subjective perceptions etc Which is the recurring theme in the universe!

This is just grammar. I repeat if an omniscient, omnipotent creator knows 100 per cent what you will do, you will do it. Simple.
His knowledge of what you will do existed before you existed at all - so how will you change it?
If you change it you are more powerful than him - also his omniscience fails.

In all the unnecessary mis-applied English you try to write, you fail at the simple point - the fact that omniscience and freewill are incompatible.

You will try to say He knows all the options - but wrong - the point is he knows the exact option you will take before he even made you.

To emphasize - it was known what you will do even before you existed!

That is an incongruity that can never be explained. Mind you - I dont affirm either precept - omniscience or freewill - it is you who does.
You are simply trying to say that a square circle exists.

I have no doubt a person like you will try to reconcile contradictions such as claiming Jesus was fully man and fully God.
Even when the definitions are exclusive. Man is limited. God is limitless. But no doubt you will try using mis-applied words to spin a tale.

Try elsewhere. Not impressed.

Gabrielshow24:
What description do you believe in? 🤔
I will take the rest as moot, for they are part of a complex interrelationship between actors and npcs objects.

This just a cop out.
God is unknowable.

You also cant tell a person born paralyzed that he has freewill to run.

Gabrielshow24:
🤔I am not biased. I don't cut off an independent part of a solution just because I prefer another, and it doesn't agree with me! I reconcile both aspects of things and if you insist you don't have free will then you are deceiving yourself viz a viz! It's a coexisting system, if you and your colleague can't see it for what it is, then I am afraid I can't help you!

In summary, apart from the constraints of these systems, we all have free will👀. None of them can prove otherwise!

I have not insisted I dont have it, but its philosophically a conundrum. Besides I dont believe in the normal description of an omniscient God.
Freewill with punishments is also not freewill.

Many factors, such as genetics and circumstances make freewill unlikely.

Heck even diseases are inherited.

Kukutente23:
Let me ask you.
What do you think of Nnamdi Kanu and his approach of the quest for Biafra

Extremist and confrontational with demagoguery, lies and sedition.

Kukutente23:
He was convicted of fraud in public office or private business? Everyone knows he would never be charged if not because of politics.
Do you know how much Ibori confessed to stealing from Delta State? £5bn. In today's naira, that is N12.5trn!!
Can you even accuse any Nigerian leader of sexual crimes? Will it stick? How is Natasha doing with her attempt? Is any police or law enforcement office including CCB looking into it?
Your presidency has now become a turn by turn office in other to satisfy ethnic jingoists. How can you even think US can beat that?

Stop deflecting. Nigerian crimes do not make Trump's better.
Trump would always have been charged - it was delayed for fear of appearing political.

The fellow is a rrrogue of staggering proportions.
It was even found by a court that he sssexually assssaulted someone and had to pay up.

His history of fraud is too well documented.

Gabrielshow24:
My ai friend didn't allow my previous reply to go through. Hopefully this one does👀.

What you outlined is insufficient, it doesn't have to be like this, that's special pleading. I have given a general remark that encapsulates whatsoever special instance you had hoped to use to refute my stance.

You have to prove to me, that the remaining set of systems are not free! Which is something you and your colleague have not done. I didn't ask redundundant questions such as the ones you had outlined earlier.

You have to prove to me, that anything apart from these complex systems, physical constraints, is not emanant from your being!

Imagine, a universal set of choices from there you have to show me that the set of choices excluding the ones limited by physical constraints are not yours.

You are being escapist.
Constraints literally mean restriction.
Period.

MaxInDHouse:
Please don't change the subject now.

If it's true that the ancestors of Chinese and Indians lived before the Bible dates of Adam how come their people became not just so called Christians but Jehovah's Witnesses who will boldly knock on the doors of their own people to preach what the Bible God promised?

Ọmọ Jesus said:

"You will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth." Act 1:8

The power to preach and teach could be found only in the true religion that beats all falsehood.
Let the worshipers of any other god use their worshipers the same way JWs are penetrating all the corners of the earth! Matthew 28:19-20

Adam never existed.

Gabrielshow24:
It's free by matter of boundary! You can say it's not free when abluminal characteristics are in view until then it's free!

A.I. agents are placed in fashioned scenarios and their agency of choice is pitted against that scenario. The scenario itself doesn't negate the inherent and intrinsic volition of the agent! Never!

If this is your yardstick for disproving free will then it's flawed!

There are several yardsticks.
Deal with this first.

Constraints are the same as a handcuff or a jail.

Gabrielshow24:
What aspect of physical constraints don't you understand? 👀 Even at this, there are some that go through expensive surgeries to resemble such creatures; that's evidence to agency of choice to try and bend physical constraints! Not, contrary!

You make use of what you have been given and you decide your outcome! As simple as that!

A constrained thing cannot be called free.

Jakumo:
A good friend of mine is a medical doctor resident in Chicago. He told me recently that he only knows of just THREE men over the age of 40 who have no need for Viagra or any other male arousal pill. Interestingly, the doctor told me that those three men who never partake of sex enhancer drugs are all stoners who love their weed, while all the other men he knows who rely heavily on sexual performance enhancing drugs NEVER use cannabis, and even look down on stoners.

As a lifelong stoner who has never felt the need to try any form of sex performance medication in my entire life, I now realize that my love affair with cannabis may well have been keeping my landing gear in perfect working order without my even being aware of a cause and effect relationship between my constantly getting high on weed, and staying rock hard for hours with women.

Lol. There are millions of men over even 60 who are still knacking without enhancers of any kind.

MaxInDHouse:
Only a liar will say "my witness is six feet down"
See my brothers and sisters in Japan and China.
You can go and convince them that their ancestors lived before Bible times.

Also, please most witnesses in the bible are where?
Many didnt even exist.

MaxInDHouse:
Only a liar will say "my witness is six feet down"
See my brothers and sisters in Japan and China.
You can go and convince them that their ancestors lived before Bible times.

They know. The book "Mankind's search for God" explains alot.

Gabrielshow24:
Probably, you missed the memo on definition of free will. None of it negates your agency of choice!

You can't sull just because of pre-determined systems when you apparently have the agency of choice to engage with them.

Oya now, can you choose to be a lizard?
Answer me.