₦airaland Forum

emkz:
One thing that is clear is that leaders who are loud before getting into power are usually limited.

Some cannot explain how they transformed their states and tackled poverty. So they keep citing examples from Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh.

Buhari said take care of the poor. But how should that be done? The test of leadership is the ideas. We know we have to solve the power problem. How? We need to pull people out of poverty. How?

Kukutente23:
I have emboldened some key words for you above. You can clearly see that throught the piece the word "may" keep popping up. This shows that there is no definitive linkk between the veneration/worship of Mary and pagan cultures and beliefs. The parts I bolded in red shows that the veneration of Mary was a purely Catholic affair devoid of any pagan influence. In fact, the veneration of Mary stemmed out of the need to protect the divinity of Jesus in the early 2-3 centruries. THere was docietian theologies that claimed that Mary only gave birth to the human Jesus and thus Jesus was not God in any form but was simply a man who got inspired by God. This belief is also found in Islam. The veneration of Mary as bearer of God was a direct response to that heretical belief. It had nothing to do with pagan goddesses or pagan beliefs. I can also wake up and say since Yorubas have female goddesses like Moremi and Oya that they worship, the worship of Mary was inspired by Oya worship among Yoruba Catholics. You and I know that's a blatant lie!

rabzy:
People tend to think that culture and traditions are stagnant and must be adhered to. These rites, cultures and traditions have always been fluid. All the culture, rites and traditions were started at one time in our history by events or by the declaration of the people or the King and a lot more of these traditions have also been changed or abandoned over the centuries.

It would be naive to even assume that all the oro rites, egungun and other traditional rites have remained exactly the same rites as it was done hundreds of years ago.

Ijebuland most famous culture. tradition etc can arguably be said to be the Ojude-Oba festival but it started as just a courtesy visit by muslim leaders to the first awujale during the ileya (eid-al-adha) festival. Subsequently all leading families including the traditionalists also joined in visiting the Oba during the festival, now it is the whole world regardless of religious affiliation that pays homage to the oba. Many dont even know what it is all about, just the pomp and pageantry is enough for them and even if you tell them the religious significance most would not care. So is Ojude oba traditional or religious? can a xtian Awujale decree that no one should visit him during this period because he does not celebrate the festival.

Emperor Hirohito of Japan had one of the most ancient and sacred stools in the world with all the attendant rites and rituals but defeat and modernity caught up with their culture and hardly does anyone in Japan hold him with 1% of such honour and regard. Can anyone say that the Japanese people were worse off for it. I doubt that. And even long before the emperor lost his status, the King also destroyed the samurai culture of Japanese that has been in existence for thousands of years because the culture could no longer be permitted in a modern world.

Most times people talking about culture this, culture that have not studied culture and cultures enough to know what it really is and how it shapes society and society also shapes culture. That is why we talk about people and culture, people create cultures for themselves and they also change cultures for themselves.

ravensckar:
Easy there with the semantics!

I don't think there's anywhere in my post where I used the word "occult". There's a vivid difference between tradition and occult. You don't have to be a traditionalist to be an occult.

My point is that all these 21st century kings who want to govern with "Biblical or Quranic injunctions" are just creating needless confusion. For you to accept being chosen as the king, it means you're directly/indirectly agreeing to be the custodian of the town's traditional & customary practices (even if it's against your faith). Anything other than that is tantamount to foolery or delusion grandeur.

PS- the great Aare Onakakanfo (Obadoke Latoosa) was a muslim and he never allowed his faith to impede him in discharging his duties as "Aare Onakakanfo). Oluwo and his fellow Yahoo kings should shut up already!

beardedboy:
So it's no more the Kaabah but the black stone that is worshipped?

Mind you only a small percentage of pilgrims actually get to touch the black stone. And touching it adds no significance to the validynof the pilgrimage.

What else would you call an idol? The prayer mat?

No, Christians who call on Jesus do not do so as an act of exclamation only. They do it because they're convinced he has power to save them. Do you not "cover" your cars, food, homes and everything with the "mighty" blood of Jesus.

Please find another lie.

ednut1:
If it was a long term common law relationship. You may be able to get some

orohbiro:
Amen thanks for the advise I really do appreciate

Kukutente23:
It's no longer Atiku Obi Elrufai must contest
Small small your sense go complete

AMINDA:
If you're confident that Obi can defeat Tinubu in the South and protect his votes, then he should go ahead and contest as an independent candidate. Tinubu will come third in that scenario. The North is already settled for Atiku and Northerners will defend their votes, plus they have the numbers. Unlike in 2023, Atiku will end up getting enough votes from pragmatic Southerners and Easterners who wouldn't want to sink with Obi. This will be enough to take him through the finish line. The coalition would forge ahead with or without Obi. Infact, Obi needs the coalition more than the coalition needs him. Numbers don't lie.

Freshtruth:
With what I saw yesterday in kastina when Atiku attended buhari burial that man does not look like who we step down for obi Omo as I see crowd chanting sai atiku in the company of el rufai and tambuwal and ADC chieftains walking. Along side atiku how Obi wan take get that ADC ticket he wan vanish am?

Omo Obi 2027 bid is almost gone my humble conclusion is for obi to lobby for the ADC vice presidential ticket and run with atiku as simple as ABC. Make he no listen to any motivational speaker. To be number 2 man for Nigeria no be teeth. Even goodluck step down from his role as Governor as bayelsa to accept vp ticket so obi half bread is better than non.

My humble and sincere Advise sir

beardedboy:
The Kaabah is only a direction and a sign of unity.
Have you ever seen a Muslim calling on the Kaabah like "Oh Kaabah save me"?

Should I tell you the true definition of idol worship?
Calling upon a mortal like you and shouting "Jesus Christ" in times of distress.

LordReed:
It's not just about your thread. We have had quite a number of reports of death from near and wide. For a grade 6 pupil to notice just ties into it.

LordReed:
My daughter said this month of July is just full of death.

Kukutente23:
What are the Pagan origins of the worship of Mary

@op I hope you have the strength to bear the loss.

I understand what you're talking about, my grandfather died around February this year. While they were washing his body, (he was a Muslim, so it had to be done on time) I was around to help. I couldn't help but feel like that body that was being washed wasn't him.

Towards the end of his life, he was poisoned in our hometown, by some people who wanted to acquire his land/property by force. He had to be taken away and he moved in with us. It took a while for him to recover, but when he did, I got to see a side of him I'd never known before. I'd always just known him as 'grandpa', but when he started living with us, I got to see how funny, stubborn, and kind he was. Whenever he argued with my dad about the simplest things their arguments were hilarious. He ALWAYS said 'thank you', even for the littlest things, like helping him switch on the lights. He never forgot to say thank you. No matter how old or young you were. He was very opinionated too. Ha.

And then now, I was watching them turn his body upside down like it was just a log of wood. It seemed so unreal. This was the same man who I'd joked with about his 'Boko Haram beard' just about two weeks ago. I couldn't help but feel that the lifeless, emotionless mass, being scrubbed and turned over, wasn't him.

I know that was purely emotional, and not based on any logic, but that was how I felt.

As an agnostic deist, I maintain the stance that the 'God' that exists is a noninterventionist God, whose nature still remains unknown, and frankly might remain so till humanity goes into extinction. I don't feel it is my place, anymore, to argue about who's right or who's wrong, because at the end of it all, that doesn't change the ultimate truth of the universe. Whatever is correct will remain correct, and whatever is wrong will remain wrong. Our squabbles here on earth do not change the truth.

Is there a soul? I don't know. Personally, I feel inclined to say yes. I say so based on my little 'scientific study', observation of natural phenomena, and personal experiences like the one I just described.

Am I right? I don't know.

But I know that I'd try my best to live the best life I possibly can. If God is there, he should understand. I made a lot of effort, and I did my best. None of the religions just made any sense to me.

That's just my experience I wanted to share.
cc DeepSight

Kukutente23:
Can you point out specific aspects of the Pope's buria that have pagan background?
Like I said, you are just jumping around. Catholicism adopted certain practices that are not in line with mainstream Christianity, one of which is the veneration and worship of Mary mother of Jesus. That does not have any pagan origin. Mary was not pagan neither were any pagan group worshipping Mary before Catholics.
In the instance we are talking about, the Kingship in Yorubaland is a traditional stool. In fact, the first King in Yoruabaland which is the Ooni was initially an Ifa priest. The first crowned King which is the Alaafin is the direct descendant of that same Ifa lineage. So it is practically incorrect to attempt to cast the Kingship stool in Yorubaland as secular. The Kings are known as small gods or deputy to the gods. Some others see them as the link between the ancestors and them while others see them as custodians of the ancient customs and tradition. None of the above connote secularity.
While I believe there's nothing wrong in a King who is not a traditionalist to take the throne, I believe it is wrong to take the throne while accepting the traditionalist aspects only to repudiate them after you take the throne. That's my stand

Softmirror:
It means such rites of killing can still be achieved secretly.

Softmirror:
It a secret cult.

Omonigeriarere:
You did not use any logic. My point is that every religions have impacted the society negatively in one way or the other. So, demonizing the traditional religion just because of a singular act is uncalled for when the atrocities committed by other religions are very clear for all to see.

pastie:
Well..I have no business on how organs or any of the subject matters provided as granting the deceased their dying wish.
But making it a must customary is what we are against

Max24:
Going forward, anybody not ready to abide by our culture in full in live or death should not be made king. If a prince so much cherish his Christianity or Islam he can opt to be a General Overseer or Chief Imam but not a traditional king. WE MUST PROTECT OUR CULTURE.

pastie:
[B] stating that he was not subjected to mutilation or cannibalisation “as done by butchers.” [B]
Did you miss this part?

Softmirror:
I don't have any problem as long as the premise to my argument stands. There is not justification for killing any innocent life in the name of rites.

pastie:
Are you part of the secret society? Let's call a spade.
We all can't continue supporting barbarism in any form. Talking about pope burial rite? Spill it out and let the world refine it

Softmirror:
No one said rites cannot evolve? So what is the point of your argument? On which principle should it evolve and why?

Softmirror:
There is no justification for killing any innocent person.

illicit

adamkkk

247man

DeepSight

lucianohase:
Do you prefer the Ogboni way? Well burial rites should be made very simple, just like the Muslims do and not to mutilate or butcher a decreased and also not to start spending unnecessarily, extorting money from a deceased's loved ones. All these are nonsense and makes no sense at all........It only satisfy greedy and wicked people...Even as a Christian, I love Islamic type of burial which i believe should be emulated by all.

beardedboy:
A king is not a spiritual title. It's a rulership title.

Also, Islam predates a lot of these idols that are being worshipped today in Yoruba land. Go and ask around. That's why there's mention of Imole in odu ifa. Islam already existed in Yoruba land before the ifa incantations were compiled. Do some studying.

Most importantly, there's absolutely no reason for tradition to remain stagnant. We advance in all aspects of our lives when we see an abviously better option. Why should that exclude our religion and belief?!

Softmirror:
Someone was beaten to death a few weeks ago, another just three days ago by Masquerade. That is why our culture and tradition must be respected for it's uniqueness.