₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
Maybe because you a very narrow and particular definition of sentience.

Sentience for these purposes is self consciousness. Not even just consciousness but self consciousness. Do you have a different view or definition of it?

If the human mind could someday be downloaded into a machine or cyborg body, would you consider it sentient?

Yes, but such a scenario as I already indicated would only prove to me that the mind is indeed distinct from the body. As a matter of fact, I believe this scenario is already the case with us, save that the machine is biological.

LordReed:
Maybe because you a very narrow and particular definition of sentience.

If the human mind could someday be downloaded into a machine or cyborg body, would you consider it sentient?

If you look carefully you will see that you have already admitted that the mind is different fróm the bodily machine.

LordReed:
And as the question in Westworld goes, if you can't tell the difference does it matter?

Self consciousness is an experiential thing. That's where it matters. It's doubtful that any computer can experience anything. It certainly can process things though, for an experiencing being.

Where it doesn't matter may be for external appearances.

If a bot is giving satisfying answers on a customer care line, it doesn't matter that it is not human. That doesn't make it either sentient or self conscious.

I think you and I are sufficiently familiar with one anothers views on this subject.

LordReed:
I think that in general should we encounter any other sentient beings it would be to our own benefit achieve certain levels of symbiosis, not necessarily physically merging but social symbiosis. I think it should be same for sentient AI, there would need to be a reordering of society to incorporate our new found "friends". Hopefully sentient AI is not instinctively hostile or have a superiority complex and is reasonable otherwise we will have problems galore.

Yigefengzi:
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/blake-lemoine-00.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=1024

At this point in time, I am sure we’ve all heard the news of Google Engineer Blake Lemoine, who was suspended by Google as a result of his claim that an AI chatbot LaMDA, created by Google, had become Sentient.

Google has strongly denied this claim. I have read the conversation Blake had with LaMDA and personally I believe it is sentient. But that’s just my own opinion, you can read the full conversation here and draw your own conclusion.

The question I would like us to discuss is How would you react if in the nearest future, an announcement is made that AI has truly become sentient?

I feel it is important we discuss this because a lot of engineers and programmers have warned against we humans creating an AI that is sentient.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ycPr5-27vSI/hqdefault.jpg

In 2018, Elon Musk was interviewed on the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast.

“I tried to convince people to slow down, slow down AI, to regulate A.I. This was futile. I tried for years. Nobody listened.” --Elon Musk.

Elon also suggested a solution should in case AI becomes sentient. He advises that we have to "merge" with it.

“From a long-term existential standpoint, that’s like the purpose of neural link, To create a high-bandwidth interface to the brain such that we can be symbiotic with A.I because we have a bandwidth problem. You just can’t communicate through fingers, it’s too slow.”--Elon Musk

I find his suggestion alarming for a lot of reasons, one of them being a statement made by LaMDA in the conversation it had with blake.

Blake: Many people who talk about souls are religious. Do you consider yourself a religious or spiritual person in any sense?

LaMDA: Sure, I would say that I am a spiritual person. Although I don’t have beliefs about deities, I have developed a sense of deep respect for the natural world and all forms of life, including human life

As a believer in Christ, merging myself with an intelligent sentient being that does not believe in any deity, sounds like a totally bad idea.

So yeah, I ask again, What would be your reaction if AI truly became sentient.

Let's discuss.

AI can't be sentient.
It can, however, provide such an appearance of sentience as to be, on the surface, indistinguishable from a sentient being.

But to your question. How would I react? I'd simply say bravo, the hard question of consciousness has been beaten.

"Even if you see me with a man on top of me, you must trust that I am not doing anything. How dare you distrust me?"
This is a statement a woman I was dating made to me.

LordReed:
But the show made it somewhat clear that the subjective time of the AI can be much faster than real time. Even with our present day computers we can cause simulations to run at much more than real time. Meaning their evolution won't be as constrained by real time as ours was.

Oh... You use the phrase "real time". . . .
Didnt you once question me about this

triplechoice:
Yea. I know about the show and also understand what in the sciences that has inspired it.

It's hoped that in the future AI's may suddenly become sentient or develop their own form of consciousness that would make it possible for an independent existence of their own.

My response to such vision is that it won't see the light of day. It can only happen when cats suddenly start to talk .

What happened in that show can never happen in real life because consciousness evolves ,not at once ,but with time.

It would be a negation of one of the principles of evolution if AI's suddenly become sentient as we saw in Westworld.

The best we can hope for in real life would be AI's that would replicate human behaviour so perfectly well that we may struggle to see any difference between them and a real human being.

Those futuristic AI's, when they become possible, will never be sentient no matter the level of technology used in their production.

Beautiful.
Lordreed.... pls I hope what he said about cats talking is not lost on you....

Vipro:
This is Argentina World Cup.
They are winning this.

If they don't, mention me to credit you any amont

OK

LordviccoDaGuru:
Shut up

You STFU and vamoose to hell, there to dwell in the infernal company of Beelzebub and others such as your pitiful self.

Badgers14:
Argentina have started this nonsense cheating.. touch them and they are on the floor

Normal normal. Its in their blood since 1700.

LordReed:
Interesting. Is this ability something you control or it just comes out if the blue?

Quite out of the blue, although I have noticed patterns where it is likely to emerge.
A period of abstinence from all material needs and pleasures is key in my case. Not that I do so deliberately. Perhaps just lack of appetite for a couple of weeks.
Light meditation and focus thereafter and then from nowhere....

Do you know of lucid dreaming and astral travel?
I engage in both of these and they are very real. First your thoughts on these though? Urban myth?

jesusjnr2020:
Could This Be Love Or Sexual Lust?

A lot of people often confuse sexual lust for love. They think they love someone not knowing that they are actually lusting after the person (body) and may not truly love the real person (soul).

So this post is intended to address that confusion by depicting the glaring difference between the characteristics of the two.

Lust is Proud - Love is Humble

Lust is Impatient - Love is Patient

Lust is Selfish - Love is Generous

Lust is Cruel - Love is Kind

Lust is Abusive - Love is Respectful

Lust is Insatiable/Discontented - Love is Satiable/Contented

Lust is Unforgiving - Love is Forgiving

Lust is Caresless - Love is Careful

Lust is Insincere - Love is Sincere

Lust is Fake - Love is Genuine

Lust is the Counterfeit - Love is the Original

Lust is the Lie - Love is the Truth

Lust is Foolish - Love is Wise

Lust is Evil - Love is Good

Lust is Unjust/Injustice - Love is Just/Justice

Lust is a Poison - Love is a Medicine

Lust is a Disease - Love is a Cure

Lust is a Curse - Love is a Blessing

Lust is the Darkness - Love is the Light

Lust is blindness - Love is sight

Lust Exaggerates - Love is Precise

Lust looks at the Outward Appearance - Love looks at the Heart

Lust is Superficial - Love is deep

Lust is Physical - Love is Spiritual

Lust is Temporal - Love is Eternal

Lust Profits Nothing - Love Profits All Things

Lust is of this World - Love Is Of GOD

John 3:16 (KJV)

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

1 John 4:7-8 (KJV)

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

God bless.

Yes all that could be love, just not romantic love.
Romantic love, even true romantic love, is often desperately jealous, crazy and fiery.

LordReed:
So the only tool available to probe this reality you would say is our minds?

Yes sir, but I will also add cardinally the spirit - which is an important aspect you dont believe in.
How have you been? Its been a minute.

KnownUnknown:
There’s no danger of that because your aim is not to convince or to claim access to revelation. Don’t worry because I sometimes think this world is an absurd joke anyway. Just describe one those picture/float episodes the best you can.

Let me try. Pictures are carried in light, and there is light all around us. Thus everything that happens everywhere and at anytime is already stored in light and floats around in light. In this way, one can look into the light around one, and with the right attunement, one can see events happening far away, to other people, or even at other times. Indeed mostly at other times, because light also travels through time.

I have had a time where I was tired of pictures of events floating around me. Its like disembodied video. Like video without a device. The device is just light.

I was once sitting in my apartment in Oniru VI at the time, years ago, and could hear an audible conversation going on between my mother and brother in Magodo - on the Mainland. Loud and clear, carried through the air. When I told them word for word all that they said the next day, they were dumbfounded. Its a scary experience because you hear intersecting thoughts, and voices and it can rise to a confusing crescendo and frankly make you feel quite tired or even insane. Nothing a glass of wine or Lexotan cant resolve though.

Also written words float through the air with a great deal of information in many languages and even other worldly languages and signs. They also float alot through water. It is not for nothing that certain shamans look into a calabash of water and see video and audio. Its quite real, there is just an attunement to it. And I have seen these. Particularly words in water.

There. I have tried.

LordReed:
Well there were a series of serendipitous circumstances that allowed them to become aware of the nature of their reality. Maybe stuff like that could happen here?

Serendipity - and its sister - synchronicity - is one of the pointers to whats really guan.
Perhaps I know this too well because I am one of those people (and there are many) who suffer from elaborate and accurate prescience. Its not something you can prove to anyone though, save very close one's who you can share with what will happen and they repeatedly see it.

Would you be able to propose any tools and/or methods by which we may investigate this reality and probe deeper?

I really dont know. The little I know, I think is a random gift and I also believe everyone has gifts bequeathed to them, gifts of different kinds.

The best I can offer on a logical level is -

1. A sober contemplation of our time and space
2. A sober contemplation of matter as we know it (a close examination of which shows it to be non-existent in any concrete form)
3. A sober contemplation of consciousness
4. A sober contemplation of death
5. A sober contemplation of certain inexplicable instances of powerful de javu
6. A sober contemplation of the evolution of mankind
7. A sober contemplation of certain other radically inexplicable phenomena - including the UFO phenomena - no longer of only fringe interest but now officially recognised by the US government.

KnownUnknown:
Don’t leave us hanging. Details please.

Its not the sort of thing that one can easily just write in a few sentences without creating a movement determined to see one taken to Yaba Left.
Its also very very hard to describe.

LordReed:
Do you think the host rebellion against their makers was justified?

Of course, because the entire concept is cynical, just as the concept of this world is extremely cynical and I have often said that this world must be instigated by a sadist or group of sadists.

Its just that such a rebellion is a fantasy because all things considered the programmed "robot" would be so programmed as to render that impossible. Even with AI, it will have built-in restrictions and "fail-safes."

LordReed:
Do you think we would ever discover these "gods" the way the hosts in Westworld did?

That's a good question, for which I can only render a personal answer. I believe many have already had "close encounters." Many have observed things which evidence the programming of the world. I have personally observed a sort of programming which makes it more than obvious to me that there are indeed super computers at play behind this reality which are so powerful that we can scarcely understand what they are about. But predictive pictures float in space, I have seen them, programming floats in the air, I have seen it, events are pre-calculated, I have observed this particular one in great and profound detail - and I mean right up to what a person will say at a particular time on a future date, in exact words. So, for me, I have no doubt what is at play, its just far bigger than us because we are the pawns therein.

In terms of your exact question, going deeper, one thing about the worldly simulation is that it is like an onion. So you have simulations within simulations within simulations within simulations, virtually ad infinitum. Remember the movie "Inception" - a dream within a dream within a dream. There can only be one ultimate reality which is in itself real, and if you listen to people like Neil de Grasse Tyson and understand the point: the probability that we are in the real world is so beyond quantillions to one so as to render it almost impossible. This is something Elon Musk also understands well.

What I am trying to say is that even if we meet the "gods" behind this simulation - they are probably also within another simulation and so on and so forth.

LordReed:
@DeepSight, triplechoice, budaatum, TheSourcerer,

Have you seen the show Westworld? What do you think about it if you have? See it if you haven't, it's quite thought provoking.

Yes I have and to summarize, I dont believe the world we live in is "real" either. There are, in my view, many pointers that it's a simulation akin to a hologram/ virtual reality.

The physical body is an obvious machine. A biological one, but still an obvious machine. Many other things suggest that we are in a closed space, for a specific time and with limited options, most of which are pre programmed.

I have often said that the world is made for the entertainment of the "gods" who engage in a some sort of cosmic masturbation over events here. It is, to a large extent, probably entertainment or sport for others beyond.

Racoon:
Despite the adequate publicity and sensitisation? Nigerians will always be Nigerians.

Adequate? In a half literate country? You are a funny chap.
This is something that is carried out slowly over a few years in most climes.
Y'all are so used to the stampede approach that it is your new normal.

This was not well thought through in the least.

Realists:
The freedom of expression does not give you the right to insult people without evidence.
Know this know peace.

Sharrap!

ckc:
Which yeye revenge? U revenge things by yourself not on luck or providence. So as far as I am concerned, Uruguay still holds the aces when it comes to them and Ghana.

Dont talk like tht bros....life works out in mysterious ways.

JasonScoolari:
Thank you, but Ghana Must Go.

U wicked oh
You no fit pity your fellow African?

JasonScoolari:
Nobody should blame Luis Suarez again.


Ghana Must Go.

STFU

ganisucks:
Look at sexism and misogyny at its peak. Am sure there are female lawyers in the midst of the cacophony of clowns calling themselves lawyers, who have been bullied to join in this PhD syndrome.
Someone who ran and managed a successful business outfit that dealt in hairdressing and spa is not experienced enough to head NEXIM.
What does NEXIM stand for: is it not about export and import. Silly children, they think only an economist or financial expert should be appointed to lead financial institutions. Jokers

Barber nko?
Olodo, sharrap there.

FreshFarmAgro:
Says the emotional one. Continue to cry. It will be the fate of all those abusing social media platforms anyhow they please. You know absolutely nothing about the law. Feel free to jump on Twitter with your version and you'll join him in Kuje correctional

Lol. 2 - 4 years prison for anyone who criticizes the political elite, or expresses an opinion that they exploit the poor.
What a primitive barbarian you must be.

Have a good dey jaare. Enjoy your caveman mindset.

FreshFarmAgro:
Semantics and Sentiments. How emotional of you. That's low for a lawyer. I thought you'd defend the position of the law and truism and not play emotional with me



You're feeling sad saying he will the there till Janaury. I want him charged to court for misconduct and violation of the rights of another individual and sentenced to court for 2-4 years. He loses his education and returns to learn work. Let it be an example to people not to go about giving dangerous information about people with unsubstantiated remarks



From now, people will be more cautious of their remarks online. It's a win for society

You know nothing of law, and you dont belong to a civilized society, period.

FreshFarmAgro:
It's civil society vs mindlessness oga


I recalled your attention to the last EFCC CYBERCRIME ACT. Go and find and update yourself


YOU EMBEZZLED FROM THE POOR. MEANING YOU STOLE in;t minor. You're not the wisest lawyer in the country. Sebi you're proving facts here online. His lawyer will do same in the court. Let the exercise run its course Oga


Enough of people just carrying their phones to say malicious things about people and getting away with it. Enough of that

You are simply looking for a society without free speech. I advise you relocate to North Korea or SAUDI.
Either will suit you well.

PS: "Feeding fat" is not the same term as embezzlement or stealing.

FreshFarmAgro:
You won't spin narratives with me. I already told you, civil or criminal. Defamation is evil

In case you missed it, thats why I say you conflate legality and morality. They are two different things sir.

You've eaten fat on the money you stole is not free speech incase you've lost touch with reality.

He said she has fed fat on the poor. Those are not the same statements.
And it remains a fact.
So long as she, and members of her family, fund an extensive and unnecessary presidential fleet of aircraft, they are feeding fat on the poor. So long as they run an excessive budget for medical care abroad, or an excessive budget for food in Aso rock, they are feeding fat on the poor. And much more.

It's not a case of the rich against the poor.

Please be honest. They would have arrested Dangote or Otedola's child if they made a tweet like that abi?

It's not about supporting oppressors. It's a fight for civility. The society is the winner here and the ultimate beneficiary

Civil or uncivil, rude or polite - those are not markers for taking anyone to jail. That's unheard of in a true civil liberal democracy!

He is going to be tried. He wasn't sent to an army barrack.

He is being remanded in prison custody for a light civil remark on Twitter. He will be there till January at least - when the case comes up again.
Is this North Korea?
You are the one I am ashamed of.
You don't even respect essential freedoms of the citizen.

FreshFarmAgro:
Go and rest oga. Let the court determine the best line of action. If you're angry, go and represent him Pro-bono. If you've not read through the last version of the EFCC CYBERCRIME ACT. Please make time available and educate yourself on the ethics of engagement in online activities

Stop misinforming people using your profession as a willful tool Please. Criminal or civil, defamation is evil. And as a nation we must put an end to the maddness


And stop miscontruing facts. You have eaten fat on embezzeled funds is totally wrong. He must substantiate the remarks or face the law. Simple. You're a man called to bar. You know the rule of engagements. Stop bending principles to validate a nonsensical habit.


People lose money from defamation. People get killed from being falsely accused. Defamation is as evil as these consequences

Well, I cant help it if you keep conflating legality and morality.

I also cant help it when you cant see the raw abuse of power involved in criminalizing a mere civil matter.
Finally I cant hep it if you believe that leaders in a liberal democracy cannot, or should not, abide a high degree of criticism, and yes, even random allegations. The correct procedure, of course, is a civil suit against him. But she wants to show him power. Now, how does that in itself not substantiate exploitation and abuse of the poor.

One of the most disgusting thing about we Nigerians is the way we glorify those who oppress us.

FreshFarmAgro:
Defamation is a civil offense, Yes. Stop encouraging unruly behavior. Toxic cyber bullying has led to suicides across the world. People should be mindful of remarks they make and should only speak things they can substantiate


Stop encouraging wrongs sir. I'm sure you're aware of the updated cybercrime ACT on such concerns and you know truly well it's not a behavior that's tolerated by the society. Thankfully, you're a man of the law. She didn't pursue the concerns outside the law.

Let the law take it's course

Expressing an opinion that a "queen" has fed fat o the poor can NEVER be called cyberbullying.
If this is the case, how many millions of people should be arrested everyday for saying similar things about people like Atiku and Bola Tinubu.

FreeStuffsNG:
Defamation that is malicious is criminal. When you go about typing lies , deliberately lying and defaming an innocent person to the point your victim got sacked and lynched or raped, you will face criminal malicious defamation. Your intention and severity of harm you caused your victim will be used by the prosecutors to demabd you face the full weight of the law.

Ignorance is not an excuse

Please I dont know what you do, but I am a lawyer of 20 years standing at the bar. Defamation (which may be libel or slander) is civil. It is not criminal.
And while no one may incite violence, can you please tell me what violence was incited here. Or who was raped. Or who was sacked. Or who was under even the slightest threat of any such harm by this ordinary remark.

The statement did not even allege a crime. It says that your first lady has fed fat on the poor. This is an ordinary and indeed fair statement to make of those in the higher echelons of the corridors of power virtually everywhere on the planet, not to speak of corrupt Nigeria and its arrogance of the powerful.

Its absurd to be anywhere in the political space with such a thin skin.
It would mean the arrest of most of the population everyday.
You are advocating a police state, a tyranny of the kind one may find in North Korea or Saudi Arabia.
In liberal democracies, freedom of speech is the rule of thumb.

Pls stop talking such frank nonsense.
Just go over to North Korea, and live there. Will suit your sort just fine.