₦airaland Forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC3Rk3S0FkQ

Dtruthspeaker:
derangically

There is no such word as this.

sonmvayina:
Basically salvation in the Christian religion is believing that God the Father so love the world that he sent God the son so that man could shed God's pure blood as a sacrifice by God the son to appease God the Father , for God the Father to save man..


Did I miss any bit?

Nope. Pretty good summary of the unspeakable inanity some imagine to be elevated spirituality.
Most comically, people who believe this infantile nonsensical hogwash will actually shake their heads in pompous pity at sensible people who dont.

NNTR:
Indeed comical as it is, that you dont know that this faith/spiritual leader did not require deification, simply because He is God Incarnated. Pfft. Smh

Though I would not deny you your travesty, it really is tragic it is to call God just a fellow man only, and not accord Him worship He deserves

Feel free to worship the fella. Its certainly your right: neither is the worship of fellow man anything new under the sun.

There wasn't any need to pull the subtle 'Do you know who I am?' card with a sign posting to dead on arrival thread, loll. The fallacy of appeal to authority or should I say, the appeal to quasi-authority, loll

loll. Before 'Academy' was, I am.
It was weak and lame then and their hasn't been any improvement to your abysmal performance from back then to date.

Wasnt pulling any card my friend. Was simply referring you to that which one has previously discussed on the matter, given that you have tended to suggest one is lazy in these matters previously - and I sought to help you understand that one wasnt being flippant.

It's a pleasure to learn that you have been around.
Nonetheless I doubt there is anything further we may convince one another of, and save a few unnecessary unpleasant barbs, its been a pleasure.

NNTR:
The little note at the bottom of my posts is a satori admission coming of an incontrovertible fact, loll.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God, who told stories.}

Comical as it is, the deification of religious / spiritual leaders is an old custom of mankind. I would not deny you your fantasy, however tragic it is to call a fellow man God, and worship him.

Before you assume that one has not thoroughly studied the question of the deity of Christ -

https://www.nairaland.com/1341464/anony-deep-sight-verse-verse

ThothHermes:
That's absurd

Don't be so quick to judge. It might not be as absurd as you may at first assume: and it certainly is not an unknown school of thought - Take a look at Hindu theology, Pantheism and Panentheism for instance.

ThothHermes:
I don't think there's a limitation to our possibilities as men. The basket of choices are limitless as far as I can see.

The basket of choices is very limited.
Your very genes alone form just one factor which powerfully delimits you in terms of your nature and proclivities. This is not to speak of more obvious and broader limitations such as your mortality, your sex, your race, your cosmic location, your intelligence and your capacity to grasp concepts. Certain concepts rest way above the human paygrade for capacity to absorb.

The Creator thoughts are infinitely superior to those of the created.
What sort of consequences would be fitting in your view?

I was referring to the sadistic consequences preached by much of organized Abrahamic religions, such as eternal torment in hell-fire.
Although, for the sensitive, I believe living in this world is quite morbid enough.

Emusan:
That's why they are hypocrites, they started conversation with you like a dove but when you resist them they'll begin to display their true colors.

Exactly/ They are hateful, brainwashed fanatical hypocrites of the filthiest kind.

MaxInDHouse:
Many of them were saying: “He (Jesus) has a demon and is out of his mind. Why do you listen to him?” John 10:20

“A student is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. It is enough for the student to become as his teacher, and the slave as his master. If people have called the master of the house Be·elʹze·bub, how much more those of his household?" Matthew 10:24-25

The INJECTION at work!

Below is FINE WORKS of an INJECTED accuser of God's people!

Stalker and Voyyeur.
What a creep.

tctrills:
You are all over the place. No one hates you. You need to calm down. I don't have to hate you because we don't agree. Hate is a very strong word.
We all are entitled to different opinions. We can't turn this into a war because we don't agree.
If I knew you would get this aggressive, I wouldn't have engaged you in the first place.

Please calm down aND my advice is, stay away from these religious debates till you regain composure.

I would not allow religion to make me your enemy.

He is a deranged extremist fundamentalist fanatic, don't waste your time.

sonmvayina:
What is judged ?

Man is a composite of God's breath and dust of the earth. When God takes his breath man experiences "death" his soul ceases to exist. The body is buried and becomes one with the earth. His spirit belongs to God and returns to God...

What majority of the comments here which are basically Christians with varying degree of diffencies fails to grasp is the fact that God created man like this or this way. What ever we have the capacity to accomplish or achieve has been inputed already whether it is evil or good(in our eyes) .
We are Gods having a human experience. When we die we go back being God. Waiting for another opportunity to have another go.

The egyptian book of the dead put it in a better perspective. "I am 1 seeing myself divided, I am 2, I am 4 I am 8.......
The purpose of death is to give meaning to life. Without death life will be meaningless. It is called the principles of duality.

God is the universal consciousness fully embodied not a Jewish man that was nailed to a cross. That is just the height of insult and mockery..

Beautiful.

KnownUnknown:
I don’t care to address these people’s misunderstanding of evolution. I have no reason to dispute the theory or any other scientific theory that has been validated and put to practical use like evolution. If they or you want to understand it further,it is a google search away or you can take a college class. Opposition to evolution is usually borne out of incredulity stoked by religious or similar sentiments. If scientific knowledge in that part of the world was up to snuff, theory of evolution would have been used to eradicate malaria by now because countless people and resources would have been devoted to it. You wonder why Africa can’t produced vaccines?! But I digress.

My haughtiness is directly proportional to their sanctimonious ignorance.

That been said, evolution is also the state of the universe. Nothing is permanent but change as they say, so what is really far fetched about biological evolution and all it entails?

So when some people say the universe is fine tuned or ordered, their assumptions are not supported because everything is changing and to claim order/fine tuning is to imply a goal that they have no support for.

I’m not saying I am an expert in biological evolution, but there is no reason for me to argue against it. Now if I had a problem with it, I’d go study it and then try to disprove it.

The only reason the religious don’t argue against E=MC2 is because they don’t view it as a threat to their beliefs.

Fair enough, thank you.
Save to repeat that as I have said before - I accept evolution even if I question parts of the theory of evolution. And continuous questioning ought to be the stuff of science but these days you will find that questioning the theory of evolution is almost deemed a taboo. Let me extract a part of an old article I wrote -

"The Theory of Evolution is not something that I dismiss at a personal level, nevertheless, within the scientific academic community, I cannot help seeing the same phenomenon play itself out: Evolution is scientific orthodoxy in today’s world and any scientist who conducts any research, writes any paper or expresses any opinion contrary to the Theory of Evolution will quickly find himself or herself in a most perilous position with respect to his or her career. There have been professors who have seen their careers come to a crashing halt for this. This is very sad – especially because science, of all endeavors, ought to be the in the vanguard of truly free and open inquiry in all directions. However today, there is hardly any difference between the scientific community’s approach to divergent views on Evolution and the attitude of the Roman Inquisition to heresy."

I don't think one needs to take a college course on evolution to be able to raise reasonable questions about it.

Also, your response to me could just as well been served in response to him,, dont you think.

KnownUnknown:
Your post was so painfully stupid that there is no need for conversation. Most of you are either too uneducated or so bumptiously ignorant that only those with patience like Lordreed can be bothered with you. Your post was nonsense from beginning to end.


I mean you are so painfully dumb that you cite the cambrian explosion as evidence against evolution. I truly can’t deal with the level of stupidity displayed. Your questions are absolutely inane and you are too uneducated to even realize it. Why should I bother?!

Your are so moronic even your linked source detract from whatever asinine point you’re trying to make.

Regardless how moronic you might consider his post, I am not sure that this ad-hominem soaked invective does anything to address anything, good sir. I for one, am tired of those who respond to any critique of the theory of evolution with the tired old lame line that the critique is too stupid to be worth a response. Even I, who believe in evolution, have serious questions about it, and honestly it is simply tiresome to have these sorts of haughty escapist responses when those questions are raised.

This is not to say that I have endorsed his particular line of questioning wholesale.

NNTR:
Not on account of misery but on account of put up with life or shut up, if you dont want to top up.
One moment ago, you were flirting with the idea that you didnt ask to be born. If thats so, why are you still lingering about, as if like a toxic smelly fart

When did we degenerate to this?
Perhaps KnownUnknown knew something which was unknown to me!

You havent the balls to go through. You love life too much. You enjoy chopping life and so you'll do everything with your gift of freewill, not to see the test through to the end. I'll spare you the my neighbour the humiliation

You repeatedly ask to conduct a test, and when given the go ahead, you come up with this? Well, pfffft!

When Pharaoh refused to let the Israelites go, wasn't Pharaoh exercising his gift of freewill?

Interesting you mention Pharaoh. For I seem to recall that it is written that someone was repeatedly "hardening the heart" of Pharaoh. Who was that pray tell, if you can be sincere for once?

Why did angel Gabriel need to visit Mary to tell her she'll have a Son? Perhaps to obtain her consent to be a willing partner ?, loll.
The omniscience of God doesnt interfere with the choices we make from out of exercising our gift of freewill from

Did God dictate to you what side of the bed to get out from this morning, lol, smh?
Did God specifically appoint you to log on to NL today?

This come-back is a let down.

Mstravelindiva:
Here are a few pictures from my visit. Enjoy and Happy Travels!

Live. Laugh. Love

Madam, you are an eminently wicked person.

NNTR:
No one is forced to continue enjoying their rights of existence and self-preservation. If you didnt want to be born, then armed with the choice to exercise your gift of freewill, at the edge of any nearest cliff, will solve that conundrum.

Not quite because being born and then choosing to exit your life probably on account of misery is not the same as not having been born at all.

If nothing matters, then why arent you a villain, why arent you a jerk, why arent you a rogue, why arent you a douche bag etc?

You dont know that I am not these things, and at all events there are many who are.

Tell me clearly when you are ready and I'll pronto set things up in motion so to get the ball rolling for it

Go ahead.

Mister man, my dear, easy to talk to, friend, notice that I present scripture to buttress a point made or point being made.

There is nothing in any of the above scriptures you shared that when contextually read, meaning when not read in isolation, doesnt makes sense.

The Creator, after all is Omniscient, so every one of your listed verses up there, are easily understood. They are comprehensible to me.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

This is sad. You rather disingenuously deploy the excuse of omniscience whereas most of the verses alluded not just to foreknowledge - they included fore-action: specific acts of designation and appointment which disclose determinism.

In other words, those verses disclosed not just a God knowing the future but a God dictating future events and appointing people to future deeds.

vedaxcool:
Is Turkey a Christian country? If Nigeria army says the actions of the soldiers goes against the norms of the army why are you so desperate to copy what the army of a Muslim country allowed and demand it become a norm here?

Old friend, Turkey is a secular state, secondly please what is "short irrational wickedness?"

On a side note, let me just drop here a few things that miss you. It misses you when you say that man is made in the image of God, that you thereby cede the argument. It misses you when you say that God is the owner of the spirit of man, that you thereby cede the argument. It misses you also, that with regard to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, that the Lord laments, "behold the man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil." What is the meaning of this lamentation and why was this God seeking to prevent the man from becoming "as one of us, knowing good and evil." In spite of allegedly being made in the image of God.

There is much more to the Eden allegory than your simplistic reading of it in my humble view.

NNTR:
Ditto, as I doff my hat to you sir

You have every right to be born, because your rights, as a work of art, a work of creation, primarily, fundamentally and in the forefront are two, namely which are: right of existence and right to self preservation. The Creator gave A&E including us all, these two rights, now how we choose to use these two rights is entirely up to us

A right is one thing, even if questionable here, but a desire is another thing altogether. Who told you I wanted to be born?
As far as I am concerned, being born into this world is a grave calamity.

In the grand scheme of things, being born male or female is inconsequential and irrelevant because regardless of sex or sexuality, we all stand on the same footing in Christ.

I am not a fan of arguments like this about the "grand scheme of things" when used defensively in this way, because in the grand scheme of things, if one reflects on the universe or on eternity, then nothing happening on this infinitesimal grain of sand called the earth during this flash called our lives matters a jot.

Besides its really presumptuous in a discussion about freewill to so languidly toss aside the consequences of a person's sex.

As for lack of libido, so you like the koko, loll, and the rest that you listed after it, well that's all legacy of a fractured and fallen world we find ourselves currently living in, there are remedies for lack of libido though

Be serious.

I wasn't joking with you when and where I typed that, 'well if you insist that there is no genuine freedom, then why dont we test it out. Are you on? With you as the guinea pig, lets test if you have the gift of freewill or you dont have the gift of freewill. Let's test to see if, really, you are confined to an already determined program and find out, if all that you do is strictly within the said pre-defined program' but playing the escapism card is what you prefer because I didnt see you rising up to the occasion of accepting the challenge to be a guinea pig in testing out if you have freewill or dont have freewill

Feel free to proceed then, just dont be frustrated if the test you bring up necessarily fails and is shot down on some of the grounds I have already tried to hint you about.

Life, as we currently have it, is like a game of cards. The hand that is dealt you, is determinism, now, the way you play it, is free will, loll.

A common saying, and perhaps one that is to some extent heartwarming for many people. However I suspect you know as well as I do just how little control man has in much that transpires in life. You have been flinging bible verses at me as though its going out of fashion and without a thought as to whether I place any value on the Bible or not. So perhaps I should fling a few at you as well, which should rest the discussion from your own authority -

Exodus 33:19 - And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Ephesians 1:4 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will . . .

Acts 13:48 - When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Deut 7:6-7 - For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth…

Romans 8:29 - For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Proverbs 16:4 - The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

Rev 13:8 - . . . and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Jeremiah 1: 5- Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Romans 8:30 - And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

You see my friend, such verses in the bible abound - which unequivocally render clear the matter of predestination/ determinism as far as the ultimate consequence of our lives is concerned. The verses I have thrown up above are more than sufficient to end this matter of alleged freewill, and show that as I have said, there is nothing for the creator to judge but itself: Nonetheless, I am very familiar with the way religious apologists behave when confronted with the words of their own scripture which contradict that which they are advancing: they usually toss aside such scripture with a wave of the hand - the same scripture they try to use to bludgeon others over the head. I expect nothing less from you, you will toss aside these painfully clear verses as if they didnt even exist. Surprise me.

NNTR:
What description of God specifically are you questioning?

That central and general one laid out mostly by Abrahamic faiths, which imagine a father figure to man, in whose image man is made, who is all powerful, all knowing, loving, merciful, who created all things, who is transcendent and yet who is jealous, temperamental, prone to rage, vindictive, tribalistic, destructive, a Viewer, exceedingly petty and somehow both just and radically unjust at the same time.

ITSELF?

I prefer this term to referring to God as he or she as those words tend to humanize God.

Is this a sincere comment you've made that can be attributed to say you said so?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Of course.

efficiencie:
If you create a thing and give it a soul making it capable of making decisions then it can be judged. Judgment is conditional on sentience and decision making. As you lay your bed so you will lie on it. If you do anyhow you go see anyhow. Eni ba se'oun t'enikan o se ri, oju e a ri oun t'enikan o ri ri...all of these sayings are based on the fact that for every cause there is am effect and for every effect there is reward or consequence. It's that simple.

But don't you see that even with this example, you have to ask after the source of your soul. And to the extent that that source is the creator, then its nature ultimately arises from the nature of the creator - this is ineluctable.

And if we are to draw from scripture, it even says that the creator made man in his own image.
That surely caps it.
What is there left to judge?

Fiscus105:
Questioning unquestionable God?

Hope you know the meaning of unquestionable sha?

Questioning the description of God offered by most religious thought.
God ITSELF is, and always will be, utterly ineffable.

NNTR:
You sound as if you've never had it this good like this before

Oh, I have, believe me, there used to be a golden age on this board, years and years ago. Take a peek into the past on this board and you will be surprised. Its just that there are so many closed minded people who will not even entertain a discussion of anything outside their worldview - and for this I appreciate your sort.

Well if you insist that there is no genuine freedom, then why dont we test it out. Are you on?

With you as the guinea pig, lets test if you have the gift of freewill or you dont have the gift of freewill. Let's test to see if, really, you are confined to an already determined program and all that I do is strictly within the said pre-defined program

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I fail to see what possible test may disprove the existence of a set basket of choices by which our alleged freedom is circumscribed. Or do you want to hand me the choice not to have been born? Or the choice to have been born female rather than male. Or the choice to lack a libido. Or the choice to physically exist without consumption of living things. Or the choice to avoid disease and death. You cant my brother. There are a great many immutable and adamantine factors which circumscribe all our possible choices.

NNTR:
Let the creation myth be judged on their merits, including the bible, loll.

Borrowing particularly, your phraseology, '... the nasty, brutish and short nature of Earth life' sic, is a classic case of, as you lay your bed, lie in it, loll.

Not my phrase, as you evidently know, and certainly not a bed I was present to lay. I, and some seven billion others were not part of that small but colorful dramatis personae.

I asked you to research on merism, but looks like you didnt do that quite enough to be able to join the dots to see how merism, relates to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil aka TGKE, which in reality, on top of being 'the Tree of the knowledge of Everything', is also the Tree of Death, loll.

This still sets out my case for me: it discloses ignorance pre-consumption and knowledge post-consumption. And there can be no honest freedom of choices in such circumstances. Come to think of it, what conception could the man possibly have had of death? None whatsoever.

The TKGE in plain sight, advertised itself. It essentially is a pandora box

In which event nothing but mischief can be deduced on the part of the creator. This is aside from the inherent contradiction in a claim to the existence of freewill beside a dire warning to desist from opening the box which contains "everything."

This is a direct contradiction of freedom and a direct affirmation of control.

I am surprised that it misses you that A&E weren't babies, loll. Please dont insult them, if you want to argue as if they weren't intelligent matured full grown human being whose minds were endowed with accelerated knowledge

This is evasive and escapist. I trust you inwardly do recognize the inescapable point as to how an absence of knowledge of good and evil inevitably denies any true freedom of choice. In this, it is way too lame to rest your oars on a simple warning not to touch the Pandora box. For in that very Pandora box rests the true information required for free choice.

Evidences shows that, Adam was subjected to an accelerated learning process or program, which purposefully allowed Adam to think and make reflective judgment(s) concerning what to believe or what not to believe, and so it was that Adam was imparted with enough information by God, to allow him to make informed/educated decisions, like whether or not, to choose to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good or Evil

"Evidences? ? ?" It appears you are losing sight of the fact that I am only indulging you in following your explanation of a myth which involves a talking serpent.

Yeah, the escapist, that turns the door handle and opens the door for a crack of light to escape and just enough with that to see into the dark room with

These fancy words do nothing to change your escapsim here.

Its part of the bunch of keys necessary to unlock the mystique surrounding the TKGE with and get a proper handle on what the tree really typifies

Frankly, I have heard much more profound takes on the Eden allegory than that which you have offered here.

Child birthing wastes time. Coal, pearl, gold, diamond, petroleum harvesting etc wastes time. The point there, is, pearls don't lie on the seashore. If you want one, you must be prepared and ready to dive for it, loll.

Beware, I am not lazy in these matters - all the same do not mistake me for one ready to be fed fat on the presuppositions of a myth or folk allegory.

Seems you have a myopic view of Adam and Eve.

I would rather think that you are the one with a myopic view of them if you suppose them to be individual historical human beings - as opposed to the primordial spirit of man in its pre-existent state untainted by the knowledge of matter. He made them clothes of animal skin. I wonder what you make of that. Dig deep.

I wonder why you havent considered the thought that Adam, Eve and the serpent didnt once accuse God why He put the the TKGE in the garden

Why would the writer sabotage his own tale, my friend.

Lets cut to the chase and do this the easy way. If A&E didnt prematurely eat the fruit off the TKGE, none of those things you listed would have been activated, loll.

Its still not clear to me how you know this for a fact and its somewhat disturbing that you take the allegory as a historical document.

Kobojunkie:
Of whom? Where is this idea expressed in scripture?

I have not alluded to it being expressed in scripture, what I said was that the concept of freewill is what is often deployed in answer to posers such as that contained in my OP, for example it is mostly deployed in response to the problem of evil.

Its a problematic response for me because, among other factors, man's freedom is manifestly highly circumscribed.
If we were to go scriptural though, there is enough in scripture to suggest that man has no freewill whatsoever.

Kobojunkie:
What is your understanding of freewill then?

Absolutely unfettered will.

NNTR:
I have never met anyone I couldn't sit down with to together break bread, eat bread, drink wine and learn something from, so, I am not fazed by you being an agnostic deist. Each to his/her/their own, I'll say, loll.

This is truly refreshing. Thumbs up!

loll, look at you playing safe with a smart alec card now. You have been expressing yourself so emphatically up to this point, so why the sudden baulk at committing yourself to saying if you have freewill or you have no freewill, loll.

Well if you insist the best I can say is that what freewill I have is highly circumscribed and exists within and already selected and limited basket of choices. I am therefore confined to an already determined program and all that I do is strictly within the said pre-defined program. I am unable to see the genuine freedom in this.

NNTR:
Dont you know that, that's exactly what the TKGE advertised?

With every respect sir, every culture on the face of this good Earth has a creation myth which usually includes an attempt to explain the nasty, brutish and short nature of Earth life. The allegory of Eden is not unique in this regard. If you seek to deploy it as firm grounds for explaining the nature of Earth life today, I would suggest that you set out just how it should be understood and the specific reasons why it should either be taken literally or as you interpret it.

Let stall a little bit here. I am sure you have used the figure of speech 'Hi Ladies & Gentlemen, thank you, but please sit down' before or remotely close version to that. Now tell, when you said '... Ladies & Gentlemen ...' what were you implying. What can be deduced from hearing '... Ladies & Gentlemen ...' in that figure of speech?, loll.

I still dont know where you are headed with this. It would be easier, and save our time, if you simply break it down, thank you.

Dont you think its too early to be suspecting me of being anthropocentric?

Not when you have specifically conveyed that the dark, unpleasant, tragic or diseased aspects of Earth Life are a consequence of sin.

If you put your focus on the name of the tree whose fruit, A&E were told not to eat from, then you will see how suffering was introduced right across board on earth, loll.

I am surprised that it misses you that without knowledge of good and evil, there could not be said to have been freewill in the first place. In the same way as an uninformed electorate cannot be said to have or exercise a genuine free choice. This alone, is fatal to your position as it completely snookers the existence of any alleged freewill prior to knowledge of good and evil.

Indeed, as your scripture says that the eyes of Adam and Eve were opened such that they could apprehend their unclothedness after eating the forbidden fruit, this clearly infers that they were dwelling in a state whereby their apprehension of things, of themselves and of ther environment was dumbed down or constricted prior to partaking of the fruit. This forecloses any notion that the said creator had given them anything remotely resembling genuine freewill.

You're allowing your emotion get the better of you, loll.

And you are being escapist here.

Start first, with, searching high and low, looking up merisms. Once you've got yourself cleared and clued up on merisms, we then can move on with further unravelling what the heck is the TKGE a sign of, loll.

Thank you for referring me to merisms. Now tell why you are raising that and what you are trying to infer. Easier to just straightforward explain than being cryptic, that only wastes time.

It is because freewill is free and free to use, is the reason why A&E went ahead to use it. If it wasn't freewill, then why didnt A&E not use it then

Obviously whilst their eyes were closed, no?

A good number of what's on your list, were all dormant, just as death too was dormant, until A&E triggered them on, loll.

And you know this how?

NNTR:
You personally, do you believe you have freewill or not, as bequeathed by God to every human being?

Must caution you though, that you do not have to say anything in reply to the question, but, that it may harm your defence if you do not say anything and even that, anything you do say, may require it and you, be subjected to a test, loll.

Lol, smart-alec play understood, but I must tell you sincerely that as an agnostic deist I make no presumptions whatsoever about the nature of the reality in which I live, which, for all I know, could well be a simulation or a dream or a dream within a dream within a dream, or the whimsical imagination of a wood-fairy or a fleeting thought of an elf, a troll or a god.

Candle in the wind, I know not, I presume not.

ThothHermes:
You want freewill without consequences

As I just wrote to another poster above - The truth is that one is not saying that freewill should equate freedom from consequences. However one is saying that the basket of choices available to be made has already been preset by the creator and under-girded by in-built, pre-programmed proclivities which form an iron-cast set of rules by which man must live and thus give a lie to any alleged freewill.

Having said that, one must nonetheless note that the sort of consequences preached in your scripture and advanced by much of your religion are quite over the top, and verily ground an argument that any entity advancing those types of sadistic consequences cannot be said to be bequeathing any freewill whatsoever.

NNTR:
Yes, not just only disease and natural disasters, but including warts, spots, moles, pimples, in fact the whole shebang.

How is that so?

I hope you are not one of those persons who is so anthroporcentric in every discussion that one may not ask for the justification of animal suffering. Because animals do suffer, and a great deal too, and it seems to me a most lame response to allege that the original sin of mankind is responsible for the suffering of animals.

This is unreasonable and unsupportable on many grounds, but just to point out one, animals are subject to the same laws of sustenance as humans are and caarnivorous animals will hunt down and consume other animals for sustenance. There is suffering in this - but also a cyclical ecosystem therein. Who could allege that such exists only on account of the sin of man? Absurdity, surely.

I used to have a friend who made this same contention you are making, he said fleas, mosquitoes, worms, maggots, et all exist only because of the sin of man. I was shocked that he did not know that such horrible creature also play a role in the ecosystem.

Listen to this, how do you understand this figure of speech, 'Hi ladies and gents'?
Can you relate the 'Hi ladies and gents' figure of speech with this other figure of speech 'Tree of Evil and Good'?

If you know what the term is or the name of these two examples of this particular type of figure of speech, please tell whats it called

Juxtaposition, probably, but I dont know where you are heading with this, please kindly make yourself clear, thank you.

1 Corinthians 6:12
“I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything"—but I will not be mastered by anything.

Or, someone will say, "I am allowed to do anything." Yes; but not everything is good for you. I could say that I am allowed to do anything, but I am not going to let anything make me its slave.

It would be an abuse of freewill to have sex with a baby, just for an example and to say a least.

Freewill that doesn't exercise self restraint is an abnormal use of freewill

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

The truth is that one is not saying that freewill should equate freedom from consequences. However one is saying that the basket of choices available to be made has already been preset by the creator and under-girded by in-built, pre-programmed proclivities which form an iron-cast set of rules by which man must live and thus give a lie to any alleged freewill.

Those programs include the hormones in your body which dictate several unavoidables - hunger and consumption, fatigue and rest, circadian cycle and rest, menstrual cycles and ovulation, libido and sex, and many more. You do not have any freewill in these matters my friend.

ThothHermes:
The monarch of Zion. As creation, we have a responsibility to align with the set systems or deal with the consequences of not aligning.

With this I think we can comfortably end any pretense to freewill as allegedly bequeathed by God to man.