₦airaland Forum

Demmzy15:
At least they're not conditions set by your God!



Hope you saw the warning at the beginning, if you had respect, you'd have just backed off jejeli

ok o, Ill just be reading the thread. Good to know what your God wants you to do anyway, almost died from the experience.

FULL TIME! Atleti advance into the semi-finals of the Champions League, after an organised 2-0 victory over holders Barcelona at the Vicente Calderon. Simeone's men managed to keep a clean sheet against Enrique's stuttering men, with a brace from Griezmann wrapping up a memorable aggregate comeback! The reigning champions are out! That's all that we have time for, we hope to see you again next time.

Demmzy15:
Hey, talkative, you've not addressed my post o. I'm waiting, drop another rubbish I go fire you!

Dolphinheart, no one called you here, please you can be useful by not typing rubbish here! Stop spamming the thread!

your discussions have only proven one thing, that you subscribe to warfare under certain conditions set by you.

I did not quote you, neither was I talking about usman or his wars, just responding to someone's post.

Annunaki:
Christians don't fight except when defending themselves against evil jihadists. Or do you expect christians to relax and allow the evil jihadists to slaughter them when attacked

Well except you say those who claim to be christians and fought wars in the past are not really christians.
what's wrong in not fighting back when attacked by evil jihadists?

sorextee:
IN A NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEW

Both Islam and Christianity were spread by violence. That is how religion is spread. Empires force beliefs onto their conquered colonies. Contrary to popular belief, it wasnt the missionaries that are making everyone christian. It was centuries of european imperialism for christianity, and centuries of arabian imperialism for Islam.
but for the most part, the spread was rather peaceful. people converted because in most cases christianity was the first religion they had ever heard about which promised eternal life and salvation to everyone, regardless of social status.

muslims were indeed much more tolerant than christians at times, but just as there were times when christians acted unchristian, there have been plenty of times when muslims acted unmuslim.

you are right to a large extent, christians(so called) and muslims have fought wars for political and financial gains. but my problem with the wars is based on if their religion justifies it. The wars fought by so called christians have no justification in their scriptures, but does the war fought by muslims have such?

If muslims believe they have to fight based on belief and certain conditions, that does not mean christians must fight also.

johnw74:
Okay I found what you underlined and called a lie:



And this is what you said about it:

thank god.

Duh, If you received no response, do you think it could be because I said reply to mine (which you didn't) and I will answer yours.

tHought it was only girls that use to do this "duh""duh" thing, never knew it was a trait that can be adopted by grown up males too.
I see you insistent on the issue of replyin your points before you answer mine as a bad means or way taken by you so that you wunt adress my points, you even edit my post when quoting me so as to remove those points.
I've told you several times, from the first time you brought this issue up, to pls pls pls state which points of yours I've not responded to. You refused to state them so that I can respond to it. I've told you that I've responded to all your points, but if you feel their is one or more I've not responded to, mention it in your reply and we will look into it. For the 4th time, you have refused to state the points you are referring to, yet using the issue as the reason why you refuse to address my points and questions.

Of course the son is not the Father what a ridiculous question.

It is not a ridiculous question, cus a lot of people believe that the son is also the father!
now that you have finally admitted that the son is not the father, you can now agree that the son is not the true God!, because the son said the father is the ONLY TRUE GOD!, no other true God except the father.
If we are to claim that the son and that father make up God, then you are saying that God is made up of 2 seperate persons, and God has multiple wills. The scriptures does not support these.
The scriptures does tell us and show us where Jesus is talking to God, where God is talking to jesus, where he is in the presence of God, where he is being commanded by God. These shows that Jesus is not that same God he was talking to, not that same God he is in the presence of and definitely not that same God that commanded him.

let me surpport my views with 3 scripture verses.

New International Version
heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."

1.from the above scripture, we see that there is one doing the anointing, and another being anointed, both are not the same person.
2. The one doing the anointing is superior to the one being anointed
3. The one doing the anointing claims to be God
4. The one doing the anointing claims to be the God of the one being anointed
5. The one being anointed is said to have companions(which I can bet you wunt tell us who they are)

* if you have issues with these points, please let me know.

acts 7:56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

King James Bible
mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

from the scriptures above, we observe the following,
1. The one who gave the commandment and the one who the commandment is given to are two different persons.
2. the one who gave the commandment is God , and the one who commandment is given to is jesus
3. Jesus and the God in these two verses are not same person or entity
4. Jesus was standing at the right hand of God, therefore, Jesus is not the God he is standing at the right hand of.
5. If jesus is the God here, he would not be commanding himself to sit at the right hand of himself!

* if you have contrary views to my points on those verses, pls let me know.

You say I have the same spirit and flesh as my father
but I am not the same spirit and flesh as my father, ha ha you so confused,
would that be a lie, it must be because it is wrong, stop lying dolphin

are you your father? no
do you have same flesh nature like your father? yes
does the mean you and your Father are the same flesh? no
do you have the same will as your father? no
can you control your father's flesh and blood? no

its not hard to see that even though you have your own flesh and spirit, even as your father has his own flesh and spirit, you dnt share flesh and spirit with your father. Everyone has his own personally owned and controlled flesh and spirit. you and your Father have two distinct flesh, even though it has identical structure.
you and your farther are both flesh and blood, but your father can be physically and mentally stronger than you.

The Father and the Son talk with each other, are two diffrent persons, really, your post is so enlightening

thank you, good to note you accepted the facts.

So do you have scripture showing that the Father and the Son have diffrent spirits, of course you don't

tHought you have agreed they are spirits and they are not the same person.
when Jesus was on earth, does entrusting his spirit in the hands of the father not tell you something?

(1)God and the Word are one God because they have the one same Spirit
(2)Only the Father and the Son have God's Spirit, humans have the human spirit, God'spirit can live in believers
but believers are not off God's spirit, the Word-the only begotten son is off God's spirit.

I know it's impossible for you to understand this, but some others will.

can you surpport your first two points with scripture?
do you know where Jesus said gods spirit will come from, he said " from the father"!

Please repost my other lies that you accuse off, so I can show you again who the liar-accuser is.

the answer will be, are there other lies I've accused you of on these thread?.

pls pls pls, dnt cut off my post when replying .

cocoduck:
You will wait till lizard grows bia bia like a Jew.

ha ha, hope I dnt sha

johnw74:
You are full of lies, I said from the beginning, answer my posts and then I will address yours
you never did answer my points, and you just kept on posting with questions and anything to avoid the issues you could not answer, avoiding my points and scriptures.
again answer my earlier posts in this thread and then you can ask me something.


Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

this is like the third or so time ill be addressing this . pls if you feel there is a point you posted to me that I've not addressed, pls paste it in your reply to my post and ill address it. I believe I've a dressed all your points, but if I've missed any, pls post it again.

hope this is not a tactic for you not to respond to my views about Jesus .

modified: seems you dnt want to talk about the accusations that your views are not correct, which I quoted, underlined and explained to you.

johnw74:
duh again supposed jw, God here is the Father, the Word is the son they are not the same person, they are the same God, the same Eternal Spirit.

as much as I'll like to respond to this, I do not suscribe to cutting parts of my post off. The method is practised by those whose aim is to argue and not to admit to anything.

If you want to quote me and respond to my posts, pls treat my post as a whole and respond to the points layed down in the post. do not erase parts of my posts when responding.

johnw74:
You talk about lies, show where you asked me about that
you are truly full of lies.

You won't provide the quote will you, it doesn't exist?

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus is truly talking about you jw isn't He.

1. I quoted your words before I said it was a lie
2. I underlined the specific words that are lies in your sentences
3. I explained why they are lies.
4. I gave examples of how the relationship between the father and son is.
5. I asked you to present to me questions or points you made in your post which you accuse me of not responding to, you did not do so.
6. I gave you some points about Jesus, you did not respond to it.
7. I asked you some questions about Jesus and the father, you have up till this moment refused to respond to it.

johnw74:
As usual supposed jw lie and are very confused, and keeps showing you cannot answer questions,
but instead asks questions, they don't mind showing their dishonesty.
Go back to my posts and answer my points and I will then show you where you are wrong all over the place.
You and other supposed jw avoid like the plague all the points and scriptures where I have showed you to be wrong.

1. I did respond to all your points, and added, if you feel there is a point I did not respond to, let me know by stating it again.
2. you have nothing to say about the scriptural points I raised about Jesus, talk less of the questions I asked. The truth behind those points will help us know more about who Jesus really is!

JMAN05:
We avoid apostates, not just for there attitude towards our message but cos the scripture says we should avoid them. 2jhn 10, 11. 1cor 5:11

No matter how sure u are to win the argument, u are barred from the scriptures to even say a greeting to him, let alone argue with him. in fact, he will stop if u don't give him audience. even if he doesn't stop, let him be.

The first temptation to reply comes when you read his comments. when u do, u will be forced to respond. This is what I do, its a suggestion: Don't read any comment that he makes. for me, if I see paulgrundy when reading a thread, I don't read any comment below that name weather its a quotation of his comment or a comment from him. This way, you wouldnt even know what he said, let alone replying. for eg, I don't even know what paulgrundy said on this thread, not even one. even if he quoted me.

Again, never be tempted to read any "is" from that demonic jwfacts. that site is owned by an apostate. this peoole have been handed to satan. dont share in that plague. None of us would want to be disciplined by Jah before we change!

Emusan is a different person. he and john were brought up by paulgrundy whom they learned apostate thinking from. but there's is different. However, if someone is not interested in a sincere bible discussion, I limit my response to that one or ignore him until he grows up. though they are not to be treated as apostates.

No need to talk much on this, most of u probably know what am talking about more than I do. Do the right thing.

correct!

johnw74:
You didn't reply to my post because you couldn't, but I will show you where you are wrong here, anyway.

I did reply your post, but if you feel there is a part I omitted, let me know

You have no understanding, nothing you said changes the fact that the Word-Jesus Christ is God, which scriptures confirm.

but you refused to respond to what I said, if they are true or not. We would have known more about who Jesus is if you had told us if I'm right or wrong with what I said about Jesus.
is the word the almighty God ? no
is the word the most high? no
is the word the father ? no
is jesus always subjected to the father yes?
is jesus a messenger of the father? yes
did Jesus do the will of the Father ? yes
is the father greater than jesus? yes
does jesus have a god? yes
is the father the God of jesus? yes

I am the same human spirit and flesh as my father but my father is superior to me

good, apply this to jesus too.
is jesus the father ? no
is jesus equal to the father ? no
does jesus have divine nature as the father ? yes
does the divine nature make him God almighty? no
will humans share in this divine nature? yes

The Father God begat Jesus, meaning Jesus is of the Father, God is Spirit, the Word-Jesus Christ is that same God spirit, just as you are the same human spirit and flesh as your father.

this is where lies are creeping in into your explanations. I've asked and I've received no response, is jesus the same person as the father? is jesus the father?
your father gave birth to you, you HAVE the same spirit and flesh, not " you are " the same spirit and flesh(as you are trying to portray). you are two different persons who could talk, discuss, see, and be with each other. The scriptures have shown extensively that Jesus and Jehovah does this too. The person who Sat at the right hand of the Majesty on high is not the same spirit as the the Majesty on high!

THE ONLY TRUE GOD

Of course the Father is the only True God, God is one, God and the Word is the only true God
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

derived analogy will not help here, the scriptures never said Jesus is the only true God, it specifically told you that the father is the only true God.
If jesus is not the father, then jesus cannot be the only true God.
you say that God is one, one what? one God? one entity? one person?, but you are here trying to merge two god's together .

"In the beginning was the word". The word had a beginning.
" the word was with God ". The word cannot be with and still be that same person.
therefore the word was a god , with a divine nature like the almighty God. He is a mighty God, but still subjected to his God and Father, Jehovah, the only true God!

Also you say Jesus is an Angel, disregarding scriptures showing He isn't an angel
so with Jesus, according to supposed jw doctrine, being begotten by God, and with Jesus being an Angel,
that would mean Father God is an Angel as well.
Is Father God an Angel? or did the Word create the Angels.

that a spirit messenger of almighty God can be a god does not mean the almighty God can be a spirit messenger.
you agree that Jesus was begotten, the one who beget and the one who was begotten are not the same person, neither are they equal.

The Word-God created the Angels but supposed jw would have you believe an Angel created the Angels.

the word was used to create the Angels, he was Jehovahs master worker.[/quote]

analice107:
that is it there. "striving" to be without sin. bros there's no amount of your Striving can make you right before God. you must accept the finished work of Christ on the Cross.
If you can Strive to attain righteousness by yourself, then why did christ die? what was the need for his shed blood?

never said there was an amount of "striving" you can do to be before God.
never said I do not accept Jesus' work.
I believe I've mentioned it several times the very important roles jesus played in the quest for salvation by humans, and how no one can have life without jesus.
I never said I strive to attain life by myself.
jw's try not to sin despite not believing in hell fire.
therefore , there desire to serve God is borne out of love for him and not out of fear of being burnt.

Jesus says, that this your kind of righteousness, which you are working out by yourself is like filthy rags in side of God.
you see why i say, you people dont believe in Christ?
The Muslim have their own version of Christ and who Christ is to them,so also JW.
how can christ died and shed his blood and we are still talking about good works?

what is redemption? do u even believe in it?

Haba, never said I'm working out righteousness by myself na.
striving not to sin, is it not a good thing again?
If you follow jesus and believe he is the savior, will you then strive to sin?
so if you feel that after accepting jesus as Lord and savior, believing that only through Jesus can we receive life, believing in Jesus ransom sacrifice, you then strive not to be a sinner, why do you think differently of my own striving!

analice107:
why are you calling out Johnnydon?
you dont want to get mad, but you believe the JW why? is it because you want to feel comfortable in yoir sin, thinking you can eat your cake and have it?
you want proof for hellfire, yet you believe the JW even when the clearly deny obvious scriptures that talks about it. what proof did they give to you to believe there is no Hellfire?

why do you think jw's strive to stay away from sin despite not believing in hell fire?
do you know what goes to hell?

analice107:
what about it?
Amplified Bible John 17:3 And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), Whom You have sent.
So, to you this makes Christ an Angel?

guess the other issues are no more, these is the new one we need to attend to .
1. The verse tells us who the only true God is, it let's us know it's the father(if we read from verse 1) do you agree with these?

2. Its the knowledge or knowing the father and the one he sent that leads to eternal life, do you agree with these?

3. that since jesus is not the father, thus jesus is not the only true God. do you agree with these?

I've never said that verse makes jesus an angel, but it does makes jesus a messenger, one sent to do something. do you agree with these?

fine, you also tell me your views on these scriptures.

Amplified Bible Philippians 2:6-9
Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross! Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name,

I'm going to use the ESV here.
Paul was talking about humility among christians and he used jesus as a perfect example
3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

he then went on to show how jesus showed such humility
6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, b being born in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,

Jesus had a divine nature prior to his coming to earth, but he did not let that nature make him feel he can be equal to God(the father)he did not think it's a position he can grasp. Jesus continued such obedience even after finding himself in the form of man, to the point of death!
that is why God exalted him and gave him a name that is above every name.

All these is to the glory of God , the father.
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

These issue clears one thing up, that Jesus is not equal no wish to claim equality with the father, he is loyal, Faithfull to his God and Father, Jehovah. that is why jesus was exalted above his fellows/companions.

This now brings up my question to you. what do you understand by heb 1:9 and who are jesus companions/ fellows that Jesus was exalted above.
King James Bible
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

*in heaven, he was seated at the right hand of the most high!

analice107:
Which scriptures are you talking about? The scriptures taken out of context? It's only Satan who twists scriptures because he has an agenda.

the scriptures where quoted for you to see, if you feel it was quoted out of context, feEl free to add corrections, we learn everyday. But if you keep insisting they are quoted out of context and you offer no contrary explanations, all you are doing then is just to find fault

analice107:
Now that you preach this Kingdom which Christ is King there, do you preach that it's only being born again by accepting Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour, without which you can't enter into that Kingdom?
Am presenting you facts JW and I have talked about.

you are joining two things together here. Jesus definition of being born again is different from yours.
and yes, jw's believe the words of Jesus found in John 3:3 In response Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

note: you too can notice you are not defending Ken4Christ statements and accusations again, you are now trying to raise your own issues. If you feel his statement againSt jw's are false, can you kindly let us know?
Secondly, you did not tell me your views on John 17:3

goodnews201668:
You are right jare he keeps shifting the goal post, he is always dancing around any JW thread and at the end he will keep twisting the truth, the reason is simply he doesn't and can't stand with the truth except lies.
He usually opens his own threads ooo but everybody ignores him, people are already familiar with his refurbished lies!

when some ones sole aim is to find fault where there is none, not offering any contrary opinion, view or solution, lies, false understanding, desperation will be the end of it all.

stronger, more dangerous, evil people have tried to stop the preaching of the good news of God's Kingdom, they failed woefully.!

It is quite evident that some will find any means to find fault . imagine finding fAult with how taking care of people in need is being organised. thought he had evidence that it is not done, but his problem now is how it is done.
They keep on saying things are wrong, yet they offer no alternatives.

paulGrundy:
Stop trying to make good face for them, the watchtower does not do charity to non-JW's talkless of giving to orphans and widows. Even when its done to JW's you are required to pay back. I have series of watchtower quotes that subtely confirms my assertion.

1. The Watchtower is not a charity organization
2. you dnt need to advertise your going to see orphans and widows
3. you are shifting the goal post , the discussion was on true Christians and not an organization. If I do see and take care of orphans and widows, you wunt attribute it to the organisation.
4. you need to define your accusation, are you saying that the Watchtower does not take care of orphans and widows at all, or you are saying they are selective in the orphans and widows they take care of.

johnw74:
1....You confuse rejected with persecuted, you won't be persecuted for following your christ, "a god"
but you will be rejected.

2.... You are typical supposed jw, you don't know the scriptures.
True christians are not persecuted because they are a minority, true Christians are persecuted because they follow the Truth-Jesus Christ.

those who follow jesus Christ, the Christ who told us he is sent, who told us he has a God,who told us he has a father, who told us his father is his God, who told us that his father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD, who told us how to pray to the father, who has shown us that he came not to do his will, but the will of his father, who died to provide a ransom for us, who was ressurected and ascended to heaven, who was exalted above his fellows, who is the king of God's Kingdom, who is the heir, who God will use to solve all our problems, who is always subjected to God who gave him authority and power.......Those who follow this Christ will be persecuted and killed, they will always be in the minority because they are no part of the world saturated by Satan's ideas.

paulGrundy:
God does not have any favorite, remember the story of Peter and Cornelius?



^^^ bunch of hogwash, I can identify at least 6 christain groups that exhibit these features above. Check this out

James 1:27English Standard Version (ESV)

27 Religion that is pure [true] and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Now that's bible criteria for true religion! Could you show me pictures of some charity works of the watchtower towards orphanages?

you expect them to take pictures of orphans and widows when they go to them? those who do that do so for a reason, so make people think they are good. jw's shy away from "give and tell" except it is neccessary. The orphans and widows dnt need pictures to remember that they were visited.

Some churches budget money for the advertising of such programmes with much money that's mostimes over the amount budgeted for the orphans and widows. They dnt do it for the orphans, the orphans are just a means to an end!

I've said it before and will say it again. When someone condemns your belief or those you associate with, but is not willing to offer an alternative or contrary explanation, that persons only aim is to find fault, to destroy and not to build!

paulGrundy:
They even teach that worship of Jesus is idolatry and that salvation of your soul is not dependent on Jesus, but rather on your obedience to some group of men known as the governing body.

can you tell us what the soul is, and how you came to have it using the scripture as a guide?

analice107:
Dont mind them. They clearly ignore scriptures pointing to Jesus' divinity but draw up scriptures with grey areas and assume they are referring to Jesus as an angel.

you where shown scriptures that point to jesus divinity, you did not respond to it, you are here accusing jw's all over again.

analice107:
Sir, you just quoted scriptures that does not refute his claims. JW claim to preach good news, but indeed they have an agenda to sideline the real good news. What he explained as good news is actually good news.
You are announcing God's Kingdom, like he said, how does announcing this God's Kingdom which says nothing about redemption going to save mankind from condemnation of sin?

you are the one not understanding him.

He said: " The good news is the good news about Jesus and not about God's Kingdom.

Jesus, the disciples,the scriptures said the good news is about God's Kingdom. do you accept this and the scriptures I quoted or do you have contrary opinion.

what is Gods kingdom going to do? If you think you know tell us.

jw's are not preaching the good news , they are preaching the good news of God's Kingdom.
I dnt know what his good news is, but I've shown you where Jesus said he is preaching the good news of God's Kingdom. A government that will solve all of mankind's problem.

There are other things he said which are false, but you have accepted his words as true. He said jw's wunt tell you about Jesus being the son of God, being sent by God, dying for our sins, resurrection and how he can save us. This is a very big, fat and sad lie, you know it and so does Ken4Christ.

John 17:3 this means EVALASTING LIFE........ know the only true God and knowing the one he sent jesus Christ. These are part of the good news about God's Kingdom!

Jessicha:
the most attractive part of this post is the color matt 24:14 , Jesus prophesies a global preaching work that will be done in OUR TIME , the question is who are those preaching the goodnews of the kingdom as prophesied by Christ ?

dnt mind Ken4Christ, he is not preaching about God's Kingdom, and he is vexing that others are doing it. He probably does not want the end to come.

Ubenedictus:
it seems u dont know what a prophesy is, gen 3:15 is called d protoevangelium in christianity, christians from early times interprete it as God detailing his salvation plan by telling d devil of an enmity he has establish between d devil and the woman (d said the woman, not this woman) and her seed. Isaiah repeats it he said a woman shall concieve and bears a son, that woman is mary... Is 7 and is 9. That is a prophesy abt mary.

Lets look at " the woman"

gen 3 :12- 16(kjv)
12 And the man said, The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that you have done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life:
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you.

Sir if "the woman was Mary, it means
1. Mary was given to Adam as wife
2. Mary was deceived by the serpent in eden
3. God multiplied mary's sorrow and child birth pangs
4. Mary had children.

If these 4 things cannot be accepted by you, then the woman in Gen chp 3 is not MARY!

Ken4Christ:
I am rather bothered by the fact that more people are giving the JW attention these days than it was years before. I don't blame them totally for the success they are recording. It is because Christians have refused to go out and preach the gospel as they should. If we don't tell people the truth, someone will tell them a lie. And we have given a very good opportunity to the JW to propagate their lies.

Before you raise your hand for them, let me ask you one question. Have you personally taken time to study the Bible for yourself? Don't gamble with your life. You have only one life to live.

The JW claims to proclaim the good news. But Jesus has no place in their good news. What then is the message of good news they share? They say it is the good news of announcing God's Kingdom. This is not the good news. The problem mankind has is the sin problem. The Bible says all have sinned and falling short of the glory of God. The sin problem led to sickness, poverty and death. So, how does announcing God's Kingdom help the sick man? How does announcing God's Kingdom help those that are Laden with the guilt of sin?

Let me tell us what the good news is all about that a Jehovah witness will not tell you. The good news is that God sent his Son, Jesus to die for your sins. The other side of the good news is that God raised him up from the dead to justify you. So, anyone who believes in what he did and receive him as Lord and personal Saviour will be saved. This is the good news. But the JW will never tell you this. There intention is actually to take people's attention away from the salvation God provided through Jesus into meaningless messages that excludes Christ. Jesus says, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except by me.

Read the book of Acts thoroughly, the good news the early Apostles preached was Christ. The good news is the good news about JESUS and not about God's Kingdom. God's Kingdom is no longer a news. Every one that accepts Jesus as Lord and personal Saviour is already in God's Kingdom. Colossians 1:13 says he has already translated us into the kingdom of his Son. It is no longer a promise. If you accept Jesus as your Lord and personal Saviour, you automatically become a part of God's Kingdom.

When Jesus comes Into your life, he takes away the guilt of your sins. The good news is that he also took your sickness away. 1 Peter 2:24 says by his stripes, you were healed. If you fall sick, you can be healed in Jesus name. The good news is that Jesus is coming back to take the faithful Saints home. He said in John 14:2-3. 'In my Father's house, are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself, that were I am there ye may be also '

The Jehovah witness will not preach all these good news of Jesus to you. There motive is to tell you how you can be accepted by Jehovah without knowing Jesus. Remember, Jesus said, ' No one comes to the father without him. Jesus is the answer to the world. What the world needs is JESUS. Jehovah is the one that sent Jesus and urges all to believe in Jesus.

If Jesus is not the center of your evangelical message, then what good news are you proclaiming? The Jehovah witness will tell you to just try and keep God's commandments to be saved. If keeping God's commandments is what is needed to be saved, then it will not be necessary for Jesus to have come. But the Bible says that sinful man cannot please God. Even the Jews that were given the Law of Moses could not faithfully keep God's commandments. So, what makes you think you can do it?

What you need first is a new heart or a new life which is available for everyone that receives Jesus as Lord and personal Saviour.

So, don't listen to their lies. They are not Christians. They disguise as Angeles of light. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. They try to console themselves by claiming they are been persecuted. If they see real persecution, they will flee. Have they ever been beheaded? Has any of their members been burnt alive? Check the Bible, the reason for persecution is that the church preached Jesus. Acts 4:18.

If you deny Jesus in your message, you have also denied God. He sent Jesus so we can believe in him.

Friends don't be deceived by the Jehovah witness. They don't have any good news. The good news is all about Jesus. The bad news is that all who reject the Salvation offered freely through Christ will face the wrath of God. They will spend eternity in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10-15. Once again, don't gamble with your life. Read the Bible for yourself. You will find out the truth that salvation is only in Christ Jesus.

luke 4:43 But he said, "I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent."

matt24 :14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

luke 8:1[b]Shortly afterward he traveled from city to city and from village to village, preaching and declaring the good news of the Kingdom of God. And the Twelve were with him,[/b]

matt 6: 9,10 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Da 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Lu 1:32,33 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end
luke 22:29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom

what will that kingdom do when Jesus rules over it?
isa 9 6,7 For a child has been born to us, A son has been given to us; And the rulership will rest on his shoulder. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
To the increase of his rulership And to peace, there will be no end, On the throne of David and on his kingdom In order to establish it firmly and to sustain it Through justice and righteousness, From now on and forever. The zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.

Isa 35:4-10 [b]Say to those who are anxious at heart: “Be strong. Do not be afraid. Look! Your own God will come with vengeance, God will come with retribution. He will come and save you.”
At that time the eyes of the blind will be opened, And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped.
At that time the lame will leap like the deer, And the tongue of the speechless will shout for joy. For waters will burst forth in the wilderness, And streams in the desert plain.
The heat-parched ground will become a reedy pool, And the thirsty ground springs of water. In the lairs where jackals rested, There will be green grass and reeds and papyrus.
And a highway will be there, Yes, a way called the Way of Holiness. The unclean one will not travel on it. It is reserved for the one walking on the way; No one foolish will stray onto it........
Those redeemed by Jehovah will return and come to Zion with a joyful cry. Unending joy will crown their heads. Exultation and rejoicing will be theirs, And grief and sighing will flee away.[/b]

read isa chapter 11

you know nothing about the kingdom, hence you dnt preach it. and nowe you've got beef with those who know about it and are preaching it so that this wicked world world will go away.

In reply he said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted.

Emusan:
It's arrogance not weak point.

if that's your definition of speaking about what I believe in, then no p

I didn't abuse you I only show you when you display other side of intelligence.

continue, na your way.

But you left the bold part which is the reason I said you lack simple comprehension.

again you refuse to address your allegations and surpport it with facts. you also refuse to address your statement to explain how I lack comprehension.

pls explain what you mean by these statement(expecially the underlined):
"You're lying here, people always take their time to expounding your scriptural knowledge but you've decided to die in your grandfather's believe which you claimed you have nothing to do with"

Please, stop this your shallow point. You're the one who raise the issue of grandfather's belief with an illustration which I responded to but fail to grab my point.

yes, I did raise the issue of grandfather's beliefs, I told you that my grandfather beliefs does not determine mine, if you dnt think I'm right, bring one of my grandfathers beliefs you have issues with, bring one of my own beliefs that's the same as my grandfather's, and tell us what wrong with it and share your views.

Am I lying? Or who formed the foundation of your doctrines if not Russell?

you've said my beliefs are linked to some of Russell's teaching, pls list my beliefs that's liked to russells teaching, tell us if there is anything wrong with it and whats wrong with it!

I'll repeat my questions, is your present belief in anyway different from any teaching JW hold today? Do you hold NWT above any translation?

adress your accusations first and tell me my beliefs that I'll die in., ive asked you to tell me the beliefs you are talking about since!

A deaf man can hear and understand my point in a sense that JW is your organization and this organization has a founder which is Russell but you failed to follow the teaching of your founder due to change in teaching. Yet you can't talk about JW without talking of Russell which you're trying to distance yourself from because he died worshipping Jesus.

you started your point on a false note, the organization has told you several times who their founder is.
I can very much talk about Jehovahs witnesses without mentioning Russell, but that does not mean I'm distancing myself from him. He lived his life, his beliefs does not determine mine, even if some of our beliefs are similar.
If you have probs with russell, go and meet those who know him, if you have probs with my beliefs, state the belief and tell us your view on it. Your attempt to link my beliefs with Russells just to find fault with it shows that you do view my beliefs to be truth, but you can only attack it by atacking a dead man.
Jehovahs judgement on russell will not be determined only by his beliefs. If you had examined the question I raised on the woman killing her babies, you would have understood better.

Off Point. Reread my post and see whether I made any accusation against you.

"You're lying here, people always take their time to expounding your scriptural knowledge but you've decided to die in your grandfather's believe which you claimed you have nothing to do with

pls tell how I decided to die in my grandfather's belief.

Imaging, I didn't answer your question when you use question to answer my question.

Before this your post, did you just post it or i was the one who asked you question which you replied?

Please get life.

I've asked you the questions since, you refused to answer it

Emusan:
Can you see your life outside?

I know had it been I said something about Trinity, Hellfire, Jesus is God e.t.c your muscle would have raised up posting long epistle.

good you know my weak points

But since I've been dealing with you on the level that beyond your comprehension you're dumbfounded and confused.

you think so and wish so, but it's not true.

This is what I've been saying since but your lack of comprehension leads to this long posting.

repetition will not make it true.

See ignoramus being displayed, you're the one who claimed to have a PRESENT BELIEF which I asked you, does your present belief go outside the teachings of today's JW? you couldn't answer my simple question but you're here perambulating.

pls refrain from using abusive and derogatory speech, unless you want to use it a a means to end our discussion. If you continue with it, ill like it as a sign that you dnt want to discuss.

pls go back and read the issues you raised before these question.

I'll help you post it here.
(below is a statement you made to me when I was talking to someone else
"[b]You're lying here, people always take their time to expounding your scriptural knowledge but you've decided to die in your grandfather's believe which you claimed you have nothing to do with[/u]

your statement above shows you know about my beliefs, but you refuse to state them. you made an accusation, I've since then requested that you name one of my present beliefs that I got from my grandfather's belief and die in. i also requested that you provide your views to such beliefs when presented. All you have been doing since then is raise questions and not provide facts to surpport your allegations.

you went on to claim that No matter what i decided, my believe has is root from some of Russell's teachings that were not discarded by today's JW.
you make all this statements knowing fully well you do not know any of my beliefs, therefore your requests that I should state my beliefs after you have laid these allegations is very sad. your allegations are created out of hatred and not out facts, cus if you have it, you would have stated my beliefs.

you now see it fit to accuse me of not answering questions, when you yourself refuse to answer a question I asked earlier.

[b]A mother decides to have babies , but she kills them months after their birth, she says they will go to heaven cus they have committed no sin. These children have no knowledge of the truth, does that mean they will go to hell fire? The answer will help us to understand more about how jehovah will judge those with wrong knowledge.[/quote]