₦airaland Forum

Emusan:
I see you lack simple comprehension, lemme come down to your level.

thank you sir, but I still do not lack comprehension.

If we eventually engage in debate is it not NWT you will use? And remember you've been disassociated yourself from the organization that published this NWT.

if I use the NWT and you find something wrong with the verse I posted, you can voice your concerns and give explanations.

Technically, you can use their materials but claiming you have a present belief. Does your belief different from what Watchtower teaches?

That's the point.

that point will be determined when my beliefs are being stated.
as at these moment you have not stated any of my beliefs that goes along or against any of the present teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses. neither have you offered any contrary views/beliefs that is surpor ted by the scripture.

xendra:
so you guys believe there is hell now? cos Mathew did talk about a place that burns with fire

did Matthew mention hell?

Emusan:
Keep running from my post I know when you don't have something meaningful to say that's how you will be perambulating like C. Ronaldo.

Was there anytime I didn't believe in the scripture?

Which scripture version are you going to use in examine your belief other than NWT? The version of your organization you've been disassociating yourself from.

You can only fool your people not me.

you can use any version you like, when a verse is quoted and their are issues with it, we will put our view and prove forward.

Emusan:
What's your problem man? Are you not a JW? Are you not hold on to their teachings? Are you not using their Bible version? What is therw trying to separate yourself from this reality?

Please, get life!

all this ,and yet you dnt know my beliefs.

You are their member that's why I'm sending you to them. Besides, who set the template of your belief, if not Watchtower society?

I refuse to be your messenger , if you really like to get in touch with them, you know how to do it.

Will you shut up your hypocrisy mouth?
I told you RUSSELL himself wrote many books this is not about people writing lies against him or not.



Laughing at the underlined, after you emphasized above that you don't know the writer's intention now you believed everything in the scriptures.[/qoute]
bet you can see how I seperated the scriptures from all other writings about Jesus, there are other books about Jesus apart from the scriptures. I believe all that is written about Jesus in the scriptures, but I dnt believe all things written about Jesus.

[quote]Of course they didn't contradict themselves because they were truly inspired by God unlike your founder who claimed he was inspired & set the template of your belief including watchtower publication but your teaching today contradicted his own teachings.

since you now believe the scriptures and it's writing about Jesus, can we now use it to examine our beliefs, I think that's more beneficial.

But you believed that you and the Apostles have the same believe and their beliefs set the precedent for your own. I wonder why you don't want to associate your belief with Russell belief but claiming the same belief with The Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. If not because you know the truth but decided to live in lie.

you have not mentioned any of my beliefs to be a lie, yet you claim I live a lie. I dnt associate my beliefs with Russell cus he is not the one that determines it, the scriptures does. If you want to discuss my beliefs, no problem, but let us use the scripture as guide.

Of course if the Apostles got it wrong from onset of their ministries, who will take them serious OR will you as a person examine their written daily?

My point so far is this, since Russell got it wrong and died in a belief that contrary to God's standard (according to JW). It means it was not the true God who inspired him to set up any ministry nor God send him to deliver His mind.

The question we can ask ourselves now is, since God didn't call him who is behind Russell's calling?

you are still talking about a dead man's belief that I have littLe info on. I'm encouraging you to discuss about my beliefs and also your beliefs, cus such discussions can help us in our search for evalasting life.

paulGrundy:
Am glad you believe the bolded, but am not clear you know that your organization teaches the contrary of the bolded or you may just be telling lies to save face.

"Is it presumptuous of Jehovah's Witnesses to point out that they alone have God's backing? Actually, no more so than when the Israelites in Egypt claimed to have God's backing in spite of the Egyptians' belief, or when the first-century Christians claimed to have God's backing to the exclusion of Jewish religionists." Watchtower 2001 Jun 1 p.16

"During the final period of the ancient world that perished in the Flood, Noah was a faithful preacher of righteousness. (2 Peter 2:5) In these last days of the present system of things, Jehovah's people are making known Gods righteous standards and are declaring good news about the possibility of surviving into the new world. (2 Peter 3:9-13) Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 "Are You Prepared for Survival?"

"In effect, Jesus also conveys Jehovah’s voice to us as he directs the congregation through “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matt. 24:45) We need to take this guidance and direction seriously, for our everlasting life depends on our obedience." Watchtower 2014 Aug 15 p.21

^^ those are your present beliefs teaching that salvation is dependent on your loyalty to the society, jesus was not even mentioned.

pls dnt cut part of my post off, if you want to respond, respond to the whole post.
when ones wish is to find something negative in a statement, he or she will definitely find it.
When you respond to the post in full, then I'll reply on what you posted.
note: all you posted still follows the format" the head of man is Christ, the head of christ is God!"

modified: and you have to offer an explanation on matt 24:45 if you feel the organization is wrong

Emusan:
If you don't know what to say stop quoting me, OK!

How can I know your present belief? Am I a witch or do we share the same mind?

List your present belief and let us see whether is of any way different from Watchtower teaching. Period!

So you dnt know my present beliefs, yet you say I follow the beliefs of an organization.
If you dnt want me to quote you, then dnt quote my post.
If you have issues with an organization, bet you can get in touch with them and clear it out, dnt join my beliefs with such issues. Russell is dead and buried long time ago, I do not know him. There are things written about him, but the truth or falsehood or such written things are determined by the writers intentions.
There are things written about Jesus too, but the truth or falsehood of such written things
are determined by the writers intentions. I believe all things written in the scriptures about Jesus cus they are accurate, do not contradict each other and are inspired. but I do not believe all stories written about Jesus, same with Russell.

bring him down whichever way you can, he cannot respond , he is dead!. his beliefs till he died does not determine mine!

attacking an organizations past beliefs does not mean their present beliefs are wrong, and above all , you offer no alternatives

Muafrika2:
I believe the main issue here is if Jesus' divinity, unlike mens, is worthy of worship. I also agree, that though part of the Father and the Holy Spirit, God the father is His God too, hence, above Him in spiritual authority. That does not affect His authority over us.

This is what John saw:


Revelation 5:13 |
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

yes jesus has authority over us humans, he had been given that authority at his resurrection.(Matt 28:18, Eph 1: 20,21, phi 2:9). but being given such authority does not mean he is equal to God, for the scriptures still tell us that the head of man is Christ.....The head of christ is God.(1 cor 11:3).
And after he had fulfilled everything, he will hand everything over to God.

you can see from rev 5:13 that Jesus is not the one sitted on the throne, does this not tell me and you that trinity is a false teaching?

The contention comes when we get in the picture, can we get to God without Christ? I say no. You should answer that question so that I know your line of thought.

my answer to this question is dependent on my understanding of the statement "get to god".
I believe we cannot approach God without Christ. cus jesus said he is the way, no other savior has God given to mankind. therefore there is no other means we can use to approach God except through Jesus.

The Truth is that Christ in His glory, is way greater than men(we agree?). Greater that all the Holy Angels, so we are dealing with power that is only comparable To GOD'S. It is He that descended to death to open up a new age in the world, and it is He, who treads down the principalities of the age (spiritual powers) at the end.

yep, we agree, the scriptures says he dwells in Un approachable light. But we are not dealing with power that is comparable to God's(the father), all the power, authority, glory and name that Jesus now has was given to him by God. God exalted jesus to his present position, therefore we cannot compare the giver with the one being given. God is the supreme being , Jesus is not. Jesus will be called a mighty God, but his God is the one called the almighty God.

Emusan:
This is what happened when you know the truth but fixed your mind to follow lies.

One thing is sure, if Christianity started the way JW starts the Body of Christ would've been extinguished but Christianity still exists today because people of today can still hold on to the early of none error or mistake free believe. Nobody claimed to have found his present believe outside of what Jesus Christ and His Apostles taught.

Ill be glad if you talk about what I presently believe in

juhan:
you've said it all dear....all these jw are just confusing people.

since you understand what he posted, can you now tell , your understanding of heb 1:9 he quoted?

Emusan:
RE: Nothing has change in your believe you still hold to
ALL WHAT JW teaches, unless if you can list what
you consider as error now in their teaching. Then
I'll take you serious.

you want me to list what I consider as error?, why should I do that?. you are the one having issues with my beliefs na, so you should know what your issues are!
If you want to show me that my beliefs are wrong, you are free to do so .

Emusan:
Yeah you don't need to go back to old believe of people like Russell & Rutherford but can go back to the more older believe of The Apostles.

What if the Apostles have behaved like Russell and Rutherford, which believe will you have hold?

You're learning presently, Yes! But the question is, do you learn on a neutral ground or your learning is still from JW materials?




Imaging, it's now you're claiming what was written about Russell whether is TRUE OR FALSE. Simply because you don't know him. Please, do you know Jesus Christ before you accepted what were written about him?

Now, to say you don't know in detail what Russell said it means you never learn anything because Russell himself wrote books not even one but many.



Stop using this poor analogy, did Solomon died as an idolatry? At least Solomon realized that he had been deceived to have worshipped another god and amended his way.



Did Solomon claim that he was inspired by God to have set up false temple? No! But remember NO JW teaching inspiration was not claimed. Until, you show me where Russell said MOST OR SOME of his teachings were just based on his human knowledge. Then I'll take you serious.



You are already!
The questions I'll demand of you now are;
1. was Russell ever inspired by God?
2. was there anytime Russell did not inspire by God but still went ahead to deliver his message?
3. How can you differentiate between his inspired message and non-inspired message?



Knowledge on what?
So it means I don't need to belong to any organization before Jehovah resurrected me.



How will you know since you're not a true Bible believing student because every believer in the Bible knows that [b]NO IDOLATER WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD and since Russell and Rutherford died worshipping Jesus Christ which today's JW terms as idolatry.



Don't shift the topic.
Russell & Rutherford claimed to know about God even being the very mouth piece of God yet their god allowed them died idolaters.



Does it mean Russell possess wrong knowledge?



Just see how devil is playing chess game with your life.
Which means what you hold as truth today can be considered false and error by another person tomorrow.
What happened then? The wrong knowledge continues! Then let Ephe4:14 guide you




No matter what you decided, your believe has is root from some of Russell's teachings that were not discarded by today's JW.



And it was just the previous version EDITION.




The question is, was there a time the JW presidents were not inspired?



We all know that, but has JW ever come out for once to admit that they were never inspired? No! Rather they were busy defending their failed prophecy.




How did Jonah's prophecy didn't go according to how he said it? I care to know.
About Daniel's prophecy are you saying God is lying or your understanding about the prophecy is still shallow?



One thing is certain, God can not lie and inspire error.
You already admitted your organization error.
Further more, Christianity is a continuous teaching. If the Apostles contradicted themselves or change their teachings just the way JW does nobody will take them serious. So if the Apostles had discarded Jesus' teaching no Christianity whereas what happened in Germany in 1941is human effect.



Nothing has change in your believe you still hold to ALL WHAT JW teaches, unless if you can list what you consider as error now in their teaching. Then I'll take you serious.

Like I said, going further, I'll prefer if we discuss my present beliefs, that's what I need to examine to gain eternal life.

zenith4biz:
The question is...
What is the legality of black market in Nigeria?

The answer to this question would determine whether it's a sin or not.

you cannot just judge it based on legality.
let's examine a scenario, there was an accident on an express road and the driver is badly injured and losing blood fast. a pastor, his son and the driver where in the car, but only the driver got injured. The hospital is like 20 kilometres away and the car can still move. The son can drive, but his driver licence has expired. The pastor cannot drive. now will the pastor allow the son drive the injured person to the hospital knowing fully well he has no licence? would you say that the son had sin for driving the injured man to the hospital?

Muafrika2:
Not really.

At times the attributes of God are not defined by human Impossibilities. Just because they can be separated does not negate their oneness;

you are right, Jesus said, he and the father are one. but he also said said gods loyal servants will be one with him and the father. Therefore , in my own understanding, to be one does not mean they are the same or are equal.

The disciples once asked Jesus to show them God. He told them they had seen Him by seeing Him.

you are right bro, the disciples ones asked jesus to show them the father and Jesus responded. but one thing is clear, Jesus is not the father.
The disciples know and acknowledge that Jesus is the son of the living God, so what did Jesus mean by the statement.

Heb 1:3 and col 1:15 guides us . The son is the exact representation of the father, remember jesus said everything he is teaching is from the father. so when you listen to jesus, you are listening to the father.

My understanding on their inequality is only in terms of order. That God is above his Son in authority. But as for Godliness, they are one Godliness.

depends on what you mean by Godliness, is it the same Godliness those who will go to heaven will partake in?
cus even if they partake in it, it does not make then equal to God.
If "godliness" means "divine nature" , then I agree with you that Jesus has same divine nature as God.

The son has His honour too. In fact, the honour given to Him is interpreted as God's, so he cannot be excluded in worship toward God. His exclusion is rejection of God;

John 5:23 |
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.(I've checked the JWS bible and it says the same.)

yep you are right, if you want to worship the Father, you have to do what the one he sent tells you to do.

One time, the Pharisees almost stoned Jesus for calling Himself the Son of God, for it meant He was equating Himself with God. This is what He answered; as quoted above in John 5.

Being an entity in His own right does not contradict the fact that He is one with God. One spirit. Care should be taken not to exclude Him in faith. He is the groom of the church;

Revelation 19:9 |
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb...

He is the Lamb, in this verse.

Jesus did not say he is God Almighty, the Pharisees got it wrong, and Jesus even quotes the scriptures for them. They do not understand that Jesus was once a spirit residing in heaven with God, they taught jesus was human who never had divine nature.

Jesus is the Lamb, which points to the fact that Jesus is not the almighty God.

Muafrika2:
My understanding is not based on any religious groups position. It is what I see in scripture. I won't take doctrinal issues for a truth If it's not what I am seeing in scripture.

good bro, as you can see, I'm not ready to discuss doctrinal positions, I just want to discuss about what I read in the scriptures.

If Christ is not in any a separate entity, why would he even need to come. God had interacted with Israel before. He could have just gotten another Moses.

If they were not different, why would Jesus have a problem with rejection by the religious society of His day. They knew God, so why would he introduce Himself as someone they had to ask things in His name?

Ill take this to mean that we both agree( using the scriptures as guide) that Jesus is a seperate person from the almighty God . that Jesus is not almighty God.

Am glad to hear that.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I think Christ here is demonstrating that He was,
1. Sent

2. By God (to represent Him, )

3. That the men had to believe in Him as one sent by God, and that belief was key in their salvation.

I totally agree with the above. but let me add small. Jesus told us about eternal life, that we must have knowledge of him( a first person), and we must have knowledge of the only true god(a second person). without knowledge about those two persons, we can't gain eternal life.

Jesus called the father, the "only true god", and he also called the father "my god".
personally to me, those two statements shows that their is no equality between God and Jesus.

So, I believe they are equal in many ways. But there is only one King that Sits above all principalities, including Christ's. Jesus Christs rule is from by God.

Well, this depends on your definition of equality. my own definition of equality means that one has no authority, power, supremacy, position over the other. If these definition is considered to be true, the jesus and "the only true god are not equal".

The two have many times different and sometimes quite specific roles.

The role of Christ is to bring us to connect us to God. And to destroy the principalities of the earth.

you are right, but i hope you can see that the roles and power to play it by one(jesus) is determined, commanded and given by another( the only true god)

knowledge and conscience are what will determine if he can or cannot buy the fuel.

no matter the source of the fuel , is the business legal?, what does he want to use the fuel for?

Muafrika2:
Did that already

I've replied you on the post above, I'm talking about my reply to the above.

You can check my last post to you on the issue we are discussing

paulGrundy:
I love the way you did not engage in a foolish argument about Trinity with blind dolphinheart.

Let me ask you a question, when someone uses lies and deciet to justify an argument, would you wholly believe all the person says? [size=15pt]If truly the watchtowers anti-trinity stance conforms to the bible, why then do they use lies to justify their position? Why not let the bible speak for itself?[/size] Just because one quotes the scripture doesn't mean he teaches the truth.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/trinity.php

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/misquotes-deception-lies.php

Fraudstars have a unique ability to use falsehoods to manipulate others so that it would enable them swindle guys of their hard earned money. Please don't let blind, deaf and dumb people decieve you.

Mtcheeeew.

sir, I was not arguing with anyone, I just asked some simple questions. You call me blind , yet you can't answer the questions I asked.
abuse and derogatory speech is a tactic used by politicians when they want to twist issues, you try to paint me black, but you wunt adress the issue under discussion. I wunt go there with you.

if you feel you know something about Jesus and almighty God, feel free to share your understanding! you have not told Muafrika2 your view on jesus Christ and the Majesty on high!, neither will he know your views when the only thing you try to do is degrade others.

@ Muafrika2
should I still wait for your reply on my last post to you?

Vick4rill:
LOL ANOTHER JEHOVA WITNESSES

bet the questions hard to answer abi?

jamela:
No, that meme is wrong. It should be like this

God: I love you my child

Human: I think I prefer to be on my own

God: Why? I have made a special place for you

Human: No thank you, I'll rather be on my own

God: But child, cut off from me you can do nothing, If you would have nothing with me, you will be at the mercy of the devil. And I want what's best for you, please don't leave me. What would all your brothers and sisters in my kingdom do when I cant bring you home with me because you have refused to come?

Human: Uhm.. I would rather take my chances with the devil, I don't need you, I'll do what I want and I certainly don't need your heaven.

God: No you don't understand, all you have now, this life you have, its my breath. And this ring you wear (which is my covenant with you) protects you from the evil one in the underworld.

Human: You can have your life and your ring back I don't need it.

God: I beg you, do not cut yourself away from me. The evil one would attack you if he finds you without my breath and my convenant ring.

Human: Alright, I'm done talking to you now.. I'm getting away from you. (Takes off the ring, throws it at God's feet and leaves God)

God: Nooo! Child please come back, it's too dangerous, my arms are open to receive you again, I will keep this ring waiting for your return my child. Please return before the evil one steals you from me, if he does, he wont let you back in my arms.

Devil: (Finds vulnerable human without the protective ring) Alas, you have left your savior, no one to save you now. (Devours human in everlasting torture)

So it's the devil that sends one to evalasting Tor ture?
its the devil that devours there?, thought he too will be burning and in pain?
Who created this Tor ture chamber ?

dnt surpport your views that you will be purnished for 10 billion years and more for something you did in 80 years or much less.

you know nothing before God gave you that life, if you misuse it, he will take it back, you will go back to the former state of no life, knowing nothing!

Muafrika2:
He's God's Son. That means all things that God is, He is.

you are right to say he is Gods son. but to say "all things that god is, he is" is a wrong analogy.
angels too are gods sons, likewise jesus brothers who will be with him in heaven, are those too everything that God is?

The relation between God and His only Son is a father - Son relationship. So by talking to Christ, am talking to His father, in fact, I cannot talk to His father without Him. That is why he refered to Himself as "the way". There is no other way to the father.

So you agree that Jesus and god(father) are two different persons, and you can only approach one through the other.

If it's true that Christ is not that important to JWS, then they cannot get to the father. You can't reject the Son and have the father.

it's not true bro, you can ask then when you see them. They follow jesus words word found found in John 17:3. hope its ok if I ask that you read that verse and tell me what you think about it?

bro, thanks for sharing your views about Jesus and God , but my question is if jesus is God Almighty, or if jesus is equal to God almighty.

Muafrika2:

This is serious. So they are anti - Christ!

That explains the watchtowers bibles John 1:1. Christ refered to as "a god."

pls, can you share your own present beliefs.
do you think Jesus is God Almighty?
do you think Jesus is equal to God almighty?

Emusan:
You're coming up small small. You've admitted that Jehovah witness actually made past mistakes but the real question is are the just MISTAKES OR PURE LIES AGAINST GOD?

thanks for the encouragement. To answer your question, one needs to go back and read on statements made then, not just the cut and paste method. But I wunt be doing that, what I'm learning presently is what I believe to be the truth, unless you can bring up a contrary explanation to my present beliefs, I don't see a need to go back to old beliefs that I do not believe in , talk less of if they are inspired or not.

Your analogue is wrong in a sense that the issue is an eternity one not just political or social issue. Do you know that MANY JW DIED BELIEVING THOSE TEACHINGS?
Is that how God worked in the past?

You may see those teachings wrong but they are people who hold to those teachings as truth and died in them.

That's not how God worked before the advent of Russell.

I do not know in detail how jehovah works, I do not know in detail what Russell said or did, I do not know Russell at all except what is written about him, which can be true or false depending on the intentions and knowledge of the writer.
The scriptures tell us that Solomon was the wisest man on earth, he built the temple which God approved, he wrote part of God's inspired word for us today, he had gods spirit in him, he was called a prophet by some, he was the leader of God's people. But the scriptures tell us that Solomon also built things for other Gods and even worshipped there.
now where those other things he did inspired by God? If the temple was inspired by God, does that mean the places he built for other Gods where also inspired? what do you think solomon would have told his people to make them follow these other gods too.

I do not compare Russell to solomon in anyway, but I just want to show you the difference between inspiration and reality.

knowledge is a very important aspect when God does his judging, but so is a person's heart condition. thsee two things will play an important role during resurrection.
I do not know what will happen to anyone during the resurrection, but I do know that jehovah will not judge anyone unfairly.

many have died in different parts of the world knowing nothing, what do you think will become their faith.

A mother decides to have babies , but she kills them months after their birth, she says they will go to heaven cus they have committed no sin. These children have no knowledge of the truth, does that mean they will go to hell fire? The answer will help us to understand more about how jehovah will judge those with wrong knowledge.

No! Your foundation determined your stand. If the founder of JW got it wrong and he never admitted those errors but died in it then the foundation of your present believe is shaking

yes you are right, Jehovahs withnesses started as being bible students, people who study the bible, and that's their foundation. What they tell you from what they have learned does not their foundation, it's like a structure built on the foundation. when they learn new things and realise their error with the old one, they humbly pull it down and rebuild, but still on the foundation of being bible students, always learning from the scriptures.

You're lying here, people always take their time to expounding your scriptural knowledge but you've decided to die in your grandfather's believe which you claimed you have nothing to do with. That's why you hold their Bible own version above hundred of othrr versions out there.

Well, on these thread, ive not seen any. you do not know what I've decided or not decided on, but if you think you know, pls tell me one of the things I've decided on(that my grandfather's believed in), why you think it's wrong, and what you think is right.

The version that I use was published during my time.

After all David didn't claim it was God who instructed him to do so but Russell and two Presidents who took over CLAIMED THEY WERE BEEN DIRECTED BY GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT. So comparing David who admitted his mistake based on his human error and your past Presidents who claimed they were been directed by God is out of it.

now you have to provide proof that a particular error was claimed to be inspired.
on David's issue, I wanted to show you that having gods spirit in you is not a claim to perfection, you can still do and say things that displeases God. Moses is another example, his mistakes does not mean he was not inspired to do and say certain things!

This is how you keep wallowing in your delusions.
What has Jonah's case got to do with JW wrong teachings?

I do not surpport the use of abusive or derogatory statements.
Jonah made a prophecy that did not go according to how he said it.
and like I said, paul(and even you)have not told me anything about Daniels prophecy.

What happened in Germany in 1941 does not call God has a witness but your founder claimed God inspired him. These are two different case!

but you do not look at present Germany by what their father's and grandfather's did in 1941, or do you? whatever it is that they did!

going further, I'll prefer to talk about my present beliefs!, cus such knowledge can lead me to evalasting life.

joyandfaith:
I want to ask paulgrundy if world will be a better place without jehovah witnesses. His numerous attacks on jehovah witnesses show he wants jw not to exist again. i want to know his gains if jw become history. Instead of attacking a religion organization with membership of less than 8millions, why can he focus on spreading the gospels to unbelievers.
just wondering

Paulgrundy will not tell you the real reasons why he talks about witnesses. He has a mentor, the real paul grundy who he has never met or knows anything about other than what paul grundy himself has said.

When someone accuses me of having a belief in the past(during my granfather days) and I tell such ones that due to better understanding, I've seen that I've made mistakes and I've humble adjusted my beliefs, but he keeps hammering on those discarded beliefs just to discredit my present beliefs, then. I can conclude that that persons aim is to find fault by any means posible.

When someone does not discuss extensively with you based on your beliefs , but talks about things you dnt presently believe in, then you should know there is something wrong somewhere.

When someone does not give any explanation, does not give his own understanding of the scriptures or beliefs, then you know his aim is just to bring you down and not build you up.

David, a man with Gods spirit in him, committed murder and adultery. He did things that displeased jehovah. What made him stand out from most other men? He was humble, and tried his best to adjust when he learnt about his mistake.

Jonah was not called a fake prophet after nineveh still existed long after the days mentioned by jonah had passed.
Up till now, I've not seen paul talk about his own understanding of Daniels prophecy

If I'm to find fault with your past, I can only do so if I feel you still accept and believe in it. Can't look at present Germany based on what they in 1941

Ken4Christ:
You can argue to defend a lie just to ensure you win an argument but deep within your conscience, you know you are wrong. This is the attitude of JW adherents.

it's interesting to see how you can determine someone's conscience from your opinion,

How can you keep on adjusting your interpretations of scriptures from time to time and justify it by simply saying it's permissible. Then, what you are telling us now cannot be relied on as it might soon be subject to another interpretation.

you dnt need to rely on then, rely on the scriptures and use it to examine if they are true or not. unless you want to say you know nothing bout the scriptures.

Anyone who allows himself to be deceived by JW has himself to blame. Before you accept something to be truth, you must have examined all scriptures that deals with the issue in question.

have you examined the scriptures and found their present beliefs to be wrong?

The JW are not Christians. They are anti Christ. For you to be a Christian, you must act on Romans 10:9-10. You must first believe in your heart that Jesus died for you and that God raised him up on the third day to justify you. The second stage is Confession of what you believe with your mouth. This is what results in true conversion we also refer to as born again experience.

Jehovahs witnesses believe that Jesus is the son of God .
They believe that he was sent to ransom us from sin and give us a hope of evalasting life.
They tell people everyday about this beliefs
they try their best to align their lives with such believes.
which of these above goes contrary to being a Christian.

hope you remember what jesus said about being born again.

Now, the JW denies the bodily resurrection of Jesus. They assert that God could have melted his body with chemical. This assertion is an act of wickedness. We all know that this is a lie from the pit of hell.

you are wrong, the scriptures tells us that Jesus ressurected as a spirit. same body those with heavenly hope will have. that is why jesus said they will be like the angels!

When Jesus appeared to his disciples, doubting Thomas saw him and touched him. The JW just said that Jesus materialized to make himself touchable. This is one of the worse lie anyone can cook. Jesus had told Thomas, that a spirit has no flesh and bones. So, touch me, I am not just a spirit, he said.

I bet you saw that Mary could not recognise him!, why was that!

Again, the foundation of this evil organization is illogical and unscriptural. They claim to be Jehovahs witness. You only witness for someone you know or have seen. Have they seen Jehovah before? Jesus said that no one has seen God at anytime except him. He said he is the express image of his personality. So, the one you witness for is Jesus who walked the face of this earth and not Jehovah who you have never seen. Hence Jesus said in Acts 1:8, 'that you shall receive power after the Holy Ghost comes upon you and you shall be witnesses unto me - JESUS.

did Jesus Christ come to earth to preach his own message, or did he come as a messenger to pass to us someone else message?.
so if jesus is a messenger, who do you really be a witness of ? The one who gave the message or the one who message is being given to?

" this means evalasting life", their taking in the knowledge of YOU, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and of the one you sent, Jesus christ!

Why are they to witness for Jesus. It simply means to attest to the fact that he was crucified. Yes, they confirmed him dead when a sword was pierced through his side. And they also confirmed his resurrection from the dead. Paul argued during the time of his writing that a great number of witnesses to his resurrection are still alive. Yes, even our generation never saw Jesus but we believe the eye witness account of those who saw him according to the four gospels. Their witnesses agree.[/qoute]

so because they are witnesses of jehovah, you believe they dnt do this ?

[quote]We are called to witness for Jesus and not Jehovah. But in witnessing for Jesus, Jehovah is glorified. The Bible says, He that honours the son honours the father but he who dishonours his son, Jesus dishonours Jehovah his father.

So the son is not glorified when you witness for the one who sent the Son?

The JW are so committed to evangelism but the question is are they preaching the gospel? The message of the gospel is centered on Christ. Have you ever heard any JW come to preach Christ to you?

the message is centered on the kingdom of God, and the means in which God will bring it to reality.
They talk about Jesus and his role in Gods kingdom everyday.

Read the book of Acts thoroughly before you start your blind defence. All the Apostles preached Christ in every cities they went. The good news is that Jesus died for our sins and was raised on the third day to justify us. And anyone who believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. The JW will never preach such message to you because they don't know Jesus and they are not saved. Rather they just tell you to keep God's commandments. If keeping God's commandments is what is needed to be saved, why then did Jesus come? The Jews were given the commandments but they could not keep it because of the sinful nature of the flesh. So, what God did was to send his Son to die for us so that those who believe in him can be loosened from the grip of sin.

The JW teachings will only appeal to those who are not saved because it sounds reasonable but not scriptural. The JW uses reasonings to analyze scriptures. But the truth is that the things of God are foolishness to the natural man. You cannot understand the scriptures with reasonings. You understand with your spirit.

If you are a member of JW, please come out from among them and receive Christ. What is your gain if you deceitfully defend your doctrines when deep within you, you know something is wrong with your interpretation. If you are not a member, please don't believe them. Instead, go and do a personal study. The Bible is within your reach. And don't study with a pre conceived opinion. If you do, you will never get the truth.

I reaffirm my claim. They are anti Christ and doomed to go to the very hell they don't believe exist. You have only one life to live. Don't gamble with it. Give your life to Jesus and attend a Bible believing church.

thank god you are not the one to determine who will be saved.

I wish you guys can discuss issues that happened in my lifetime, issues that determine my future.

I've found that it's better to discuss spiritual matters with people who have something to offer!

rabzy:
This applies when you foretell the future issuing a new revelation, like when Jonah said Nineveh will be destroyed or when Noah said there is going to be a flood. These are new revelations given to these prophets to tell others. But when you search the scriptures and try to understand explain or determine the occurrence of an event as a bible student and you come a conclusion based on your study that is no prophesy. You are not prophesying.
About the time of Jesus Birth, there was a lot of speculations about the coming of the messiah, based on prophesies in the scriptures a lot of God's people have determined that they were at a period in which the messiah would appear, a lot got the year wrong. Some even thought 'the prophet' and 'christ' were different people. Based on these prophesies a lot of them including Jesus Apostles thought he was going to deliver them from the Romans and usher in God's Kingdom immediately. This was their understanding of Bible prophesies because they got it wrong does not make them false prophets.
Based on Jesus statement about John that he would remain until his coming, all the apostles believed John was never going to die, but they were wrong. Does that make them false prophets. Even after Jesus Died the two disciples he met on the road believed he would liberate the Israelite before his death, these are people Jesus has been with for 3 years and explained a lot of things to, but they still had erroneous beliefs. John the Baptist while in prison, despite hearing God's word from heaven, still asked Jesus if he was the one coming or should they expect someone else. This does not make him a false prophet. They all made wrong deductions of Bible prophesies and statements.
Same as witnesses, we have never given any prophesy, repeat no prophetic revelation has been made by Witnesses, what has been is the interpretation of prophesies and what they mean.

Moses was God's spokeman's but he spoke out of turn, so did Aaron, Miriam, Jonah, etc that does not make them false.


2. Witnesses have calculated dates based on biblical prophetic statements. They didn't predict nothing, they only tried to know and understand what was predicted.

Nope you got it wrong, The 1975 year calculation was not the prophesy neither is it a prophesy, the statement is 'It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfilment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end"[/b]." Awake! 1966 Oct 8 pp.19-20

This is referring to biblical prophesies about the last days or time of the end. There are several prophesies in the bible concerning the last days, end of time and these are the prophesies being referred to that we are awaiting their fulfilments.

i studied those books, you cant claim to know them as much as i do. There was no prophesy statement, no inspired prophesy ever uttered in those books. The books are a verse by verse attempts at explaining and understanding these prophetic books. Mention one statement in any of those books which was a revelation or a new prophesy.

Agreed, i mixed the jwfacts up with another site.

you may have to teach me how to put my response such that it just be below your own comments and not just one lump like this...i used to know how to do it i think but now forgotten..

used to find it hard to do too, I'll show you by giving you an example.

let's say some one posted the words in bold below and you want to reply him

"I'm one of Jehovahs witnesses"
" I live in nigeria"

but you want to reply him by firSt responding to "I'm one of Jehovahs witnesses" with the word "yes" before going to " I live in nigeria", below is how you do it.

[quotee]I'm one of Jehovahs witnesses[/quotee]
yes
[quotee]I live in nigeria[/quotee]

noticed I typed quotee, the actual word is quote, if I've typed "quote" in my example, you would not have seen it.

You can use your reply to me to check if you got it right.

brocab:
The things you ask none of it makes any sense.

we now know that questions dnt make sense when you can't answer them!, imagine a request that you explain certain scriptures posted to you dont make sense.

I am puzzled why you even believe you are a Christian,

as long as you can't quote jesus words found in the scriptures, as long as you can't explain what jesus said their, you will be puzzled!

you have given me scriptures that not even you believe in them, so how can I answer them for you, when you don't listen to reason anyway.

see excuse o!

Your beliefs are based on fiction and theory, and none of that catches any thought.

my belief's are based on the scriptures, I show it to you anytime I talk about my beliefs. The false beliefs you formulated in your mind and posted here can't be supported by scripture and collapses when scrutinised. hence you try to change the topic and refuse to answer questions associated with your beliefs.

This is why I haven't answered your demands,

brocab, you CANT answer my questions!

you don't even believe in Jesus is the Son of God, but in some other form you believe Michael the archangel came to earth to take on the role to be the Son of God.

and yet I've been giving you countless scriptures that you cannot quote, showing you that Jesus is the son of God.
"came to earth to take on the role"? .brocab, you've started with these your subtle lies again today, when will these lies end!


let's see if you can explain these verses : I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Heb 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

So what scriptures I have written none so what ever' you agree with anyway, calling me a lair is your greatest tool, and yet its all written in the bible.

I do not disagree with the scriptures, I only disagree when you say things the scriptures does not tell you, when you formulate things out of nowhere.
calling you a liar is not a tool, calling you a liar is just stating a fact, YOU LIE A LOT BROCAB!
I've shown you where you lie, anytime you lie. You do not respond to that that particular accusation, anytime it occurs!

But not your bible, because as we all know your so called Greek scholars had rewritten it, so the truth won't be revealed.

there is a whole post waiting for you to respond to on these issue, go back there and respond to it! check the footnote of the nkjv when you respond to each of the scriptures listed.

This argument isn't going anywhere, matter of fact you are kind of boring, you don't answer my questions, but yet you expect me to always answer yours.

things become boring when one is being exposed. my reply to your last post is an example showing that I indeed respond to all your questions, and once response is given , you run away from talking about it again.

Theirs no way I would become a JW,

I'm not asking you to be one, God said meek people, not those that are desperate to find fault, that lie to achieve their aim, that can't quote and explain the scriptures when asked to!

as far as I am concern you are the biggest liars I have ever come across. Your organization has twisted the word of God by taken away the truth from God's word, by doing this you are leading thousands of lost souls to hell with you. Lying to the public is what you all have been trained to do.

It can remain a concern to you, but anytime you bring a lie or wrong understanding of their beliefs up, you will be told the truth!

below are the things you refuse to respond to :

[b]
(1)Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.

(2) bring out one thing that I wrote that the organization denied!
Note: the organization, and not a third party, or outsider must deny it. It must be from official sources.
Your failure to do so will comfirm to all that you are a liar, someone who use lies to respond to the truth being shown to him.

(3)Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

(4) Tell me brocad, which organization today does these(the preaching work) best, the way Jesus proscribed and the disciples practised. I know you know it, but hatred will now allow you mention them.

(5)You are a systemic liar, the God I worship was never a human and I never said or implied so!.

You cannot attempt to answer the questions :
When you say he is spirit, are you saying God is the spirit in Jesus when he was here on earth?
Pls say yes and ill show you how much of your doctrines is full of falsehood.
Saying no will show that your doctrine lacks prove.(I believe you wunt answer anyway)
Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.

You cannot respond ;
Liar, liar, liar! Show where I said so. Show where I used the words " Jesus isn't a God".

You can't do this :
Simply quote and explain rev 1:1-6 from any translation of your choice
Explain verses 1 and 6....
Tell use who is talking in rev 3:2,12.....


brocab , readers will note(again and again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9:11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18

And a host of others ill add later.

Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty ![/b]

Age of adaline, beautiful , 8/10

koice:
Well, let's compare
- Wolverine's got a metal skeleton, has sharp metal claws that come out of his knuckles and has self healing powers. All of which makes him a nearly indestructible mutant.

- Deadpool can regenerate and self heal all at once. He's very adept at hand-to-hand as well as weapon combat. He's also indestructible.

Hmmm... I think a fight between the 2 would ultimately end in stalemate - with the Wolverine scoring less points. He's the slower of the 2 and thus, would invariably be more on the receiving end of any asskicking involve.

can he be beaten till he faints, thats all that is needed to tie him up with strong metal, attach him to two heavy metal tanks and thrown into the Pacific ocean, right at the center of the marIana thrench.

Ubenedictus:
i'm not delibrately cuting out ur post. My palasa fone has a word limit, that means i have to cut down any long post so i can respond. I read ur story d first time, it is still the same thing.
I dont need ur understanding, i nid what scriptures says, it says "do not make unto thyself any graven image" or simply "do not make FOR yourself" that is what the word says, it is clear enough. "without my command" is not there, ur understanding cant be found in that passage.

pls quote the points I listed one by one and tell if they are true or false.

sorry dear, d answer is not there, the preserved detailed instruction for d specific images i asked for are not there

just quote it again, you'll see it.

Your points are non seqitur, whether or not images were covered didnt stop anyone from bowing b4 it or knowing they are there. Infact d isrealite faced dat image wheneves they pray, i'm still waiting of d detailed preserved instruction records of several images, and since u admit that d images were buit from inspiration given to David, it only opens d question, when did inspiration stop? Pretty much ur points do not affect d discussion because ur understanding of ex 20 isnt found in d passage, what we do have are image that people bowed before as they prayed and God wasnt angry becos he knew they were bowing b4 what d images represented a parallel to what catholics and d early xtians practiced.

all images commaded by jehovah for construction are not kept in the open, the images made today are kept in the open.
The images commanded by God are not kept in places anyone can approach, not the same with images today.

bro, you can't get the detailed preserved record of David, it has been destroyed long ago, inclusive the temple itself!, but will you deny it when the scriptures said it was recorded?

is your image by inspiration? , then where is the record!, or a mention of it being recorded!.
It seems you dnt get it, it is that record, the constructor, and the mention of divine approval that protects us from Satan's machinations today. If anyone just makes any image and gives it any name for any reason, it's an examination of the records, comparing it with the history of images made , that will show if such image is divine or not. You refuse to show record of the inspiration.

ube, answer these question truthfully, if I show you the image of brad Pitt(not knowing who brad pitt is) and tell you that's the image of Jesus, would you bow to it? and why will you bow or not bow to it?

Ubenedictus:
i withdrew my statement so as not to continue a long arguement, i didnt say i accepted what u said, hope u dont have a problem with comprehension?

pls, next time, dnt withdraw statements if you believe they are true, it will only allow falsehood to remain. you can simply refuse to talk about it.

remember my words: if those scriptures where right, then your statement is wrong and you should withdraw it.

nop, I dnt think I have a problem with comprehesion.