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 Christianity Etc › Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 3:49pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
SisterSister:Haba!, you saw it where I said the scriptures never said or implied some of the things in that site. I also showed you, using the scriptures why there derived analogy is wrong and false. If you feel there are no holes, pls examine each of my points in my post and let's see if I'm right or wrong. You have some really good questions but I am not the who can answer all of them. God is. 100% if you ask Him, He will answer your questions and more.the scriptures gives us the answer. It is helpful to look up verses in Hebrew/Greek, which can give a better understanding of some words used for God and words used for humans, etc.You are very correct Taking a verse here and standing on it, while ignoring another verse can lead to error.I've not done that have I?, itold you my view on most of the scriptures you quoted , using the scriptures as guide. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 3:35pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
SisterSister:Pls can you use scripture to describe this Godhead and the holy spirit being part of it. There is no verse that I'm aware of where someone is having a conversation with the Holy Spirit.There is no verse simply because the holy spirit is not a person. The Holy Spirit is a witness. And, what do witnesses do? They tell what they know in truth.Look at what ur own king james version says: 1 john 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. Is the water and blood persons too? Cus here they bear witness. If not, then the spirit bearing withness cannot be used as a basis to call the holy spirit a person. The Holy Spirit, He speaks to the hearts of those that can hear God, through the life given in Jesus Christ.Yes, the holy spirit as a force can do that. I'm not aware of verses that give exact wording of "God the Son" by there are numbers that say, "Son of God".There is none, the words where constructed by those who want to use it to support their views. The scriptures does not support such view. To your answer #1, Jesus took on humanity, became flesh but He was still God.The scriptures never said he was still God . Jesus said he received authority,he said he received power, he said he was given power and authority by someone. How can he now be God almighty!. #2, There is so much more to this but position/relationship is involved. During Jesus' ministry on earth, again he took on flesh.If it is imposible for one to assume the role of the other, then they are not equal. The scripture says" he became flesh". And even when he went back to heaven, he was subjected to his God. Hebrews 1:8 (KJV) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.God was speaking to jesus, but that same God clarified the position of jesus as not equal to him in the next verse Heb 1:9 ”You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy." So who is jesus' God? Who are jesus's companions that he was set above.? Why was jesus anointed? Jesus also gave authority/power:That jesus gave the disciples power and authority does not mean that the disciples where equal to jesus despite doing the powerful things that jesus did like healing the sick, casting out demons, raising the dead etc. Likewise that the father gave jesus power and authority does not make jesus equal to the father! What is the relationship between the power given to the jesus and that of the disciples? John again helps give the answer. John 17:2, 6-8,11-13 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 6 “I have revealed you a to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. (therefore, the power jesus gave to his disciples comes from the father) 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. 13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them." John 20: 21-22 21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. [/b]23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” Acts 1: 2 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, [b]after he through the Holy Spirit had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, you have heard of me. 8 But you shall receive power, after the Holy Spirit has come upon you: and you shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 2:22 22 You men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as you yourselves also know: 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured forth this, which you now see and hear. So wateva power or authority given by jesus to his disciples, he received it from the father. It is a very true statement supported by scriptures.Did you check the scriptures quoted? I which you have quoted the scriptures with its accompanied statements. The word auto in greek means...self, one's ownWhere did you get this from? Pls post the source. John 14:25-27 (KJV) These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.And after quoting this, you still feel they are equal? After we had decided on what auto means, ill tell you more on my own view of the holy spirit, using the scriptures. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 11:35am On Nov 15, 2015 |
SisterSister:They tell us about the relationship between jesus and the father. It was jesus talking there. My question to you, what do you do with the scriptures below?Jesus is expressing the unity between him and his father. This does not mean jesus is the same person as the father or that he is equal to the father. Other scripture verses helps us to understand what he meant by "I and my Father are one." We read jesus words on mark 10:7- 8 :"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. Another version renders it thus: and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Is the husband and wife one person?, do they exist in one physical body? are they given the same role and authority under a family in the scriptures? If ur answers to the above questions is no, then jesus saying that he and the father are one represents the unity he has with his father. Which is due to his absolute loyalty to the father as expressed in john chapter 17. Another scripture we can look at is the one mentioned earlier John 17:21:- That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may [b]be one in us:[b] that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Jesus wanted two things here. He first wanted his disciples to be one. Since they are different persons, being one here signifies unity , unity Bourne out of love for one another(john 13:34). Jesus also wanted them to be one with him and the father. These statement annuls the view that jesus is equal to God or is God cus he and the father are one. Cus the disciples being one with them does not make them God or equal to God. Hope u understand. Can you also see that the holy spirit is not mentioned here, do you know why? John 14:6 (KJV)One fact is that jesus not the father, he is not the same person as the father. So what did jesus mean. The scriptures gives us the answer. John 5:19-20,30,37,46. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for whatsoever things he does, these also does the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and [/b]shows him all things that he himself does: and he will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel.[/b] 30 I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who has sent me. 37 And the Father himself, who has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form. 46 For had you believed Moses, you would have believed me: for he wrote of me." Here we know that jesus represents the father, he does the fathers instructions, he gives the fathers messages , he learnt from the father perfectly. So jesus did exactly as his father wanted him to do and in that way, if you see jesus, you have seen the father cus jesus is a perfect representation of the father. But jesus is not the father. Remember what God told moses in deut 18:18 " I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto you, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. These view is further supported by the following verses: John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. That is why jesus is the word of God. Deuteronomy 6:3-5 (KJV)Pls dnt get confused by the deliberate removal of Gods name in those verses. They have removed Gods name and replaced it with "Lord ". So who is the one God. John 17:1-3 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 1 cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. The scriptures has been consistent in telling who God is. It is never in support of trinity, and trinity will have to divide the scriptures for it to be true. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 7:54pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Jolliano:And at another time,by someone/ some people different from the person people that wrote the first one. Is it not part of the first book, but a different book entirely!. So dnt say it is part of the book of Esther!. it was not a translation. it was a retelling which contained some stories that were not found in the first telling. Just like John retold the Gospel with some different stories that were not found in the first 3. would that mean that John wrote lies? NO!John did not retell the gospel, he wrote his own version of the gospel, his own book, his own understanding and knowledge of the events that happened during his time. John did not write a part of the gospel , he did not write a part of mark, Mathew, or Luke. Each individual wrote based on what they know about the events they recorded. Therefore john was not doing a retelling, but was telling his own side, and because of that his own side will contain words that are not recorded by the other Gospel writers cus they too where trying to tell their own knowledge of events. The book of john is totally different in all ways than the greek book of Esther. The only similarity is that they are both books . The reason it was rejected was the language and not an issue of retelling or not.Sir give us the details I requested for and we will know if you are right or wrong. You say Greek was not a common language but Neither was Hebrew a common language. Both were however common in Israel(remember Judaism was for only israelites). Greek was common for the israelites because they were captured multiple times by Persians,Babylonians,e.t.c.Hebrew was not common, but it is now common. pls which one we go choose.? Before the isrealites where conquered, which language did the general populace in which the sacred scrolls where meant for speak?, they spoke hebrew, therefore their sacred scrolls where written in hebrew. After the isrealites where conquered and they later came back to there lands less than hundred years later, which language was the common language? Hebrew and aramaic , therefore they wrote their sacred schrols in greek and aramaic. Hundreds of years later when their rulers changed from persia to greece and from greece to rome , what common language did they speak. They spoke hebrew, aramaic, greek and Latin . Why did the disciples write in greek?, because it was the most common tongue understood by the majority. The romans dnt speak hebrew as common tongue in Rome and some other lands, the Hebrews prefer greek to Latin due to hatred for the romans, the far away lands of mercedonia (antioch Etc) where the gospel was taught extensively and had congregations used greek as a common language. Therefore it is sensible to write in that common tongue. Centuries after the disciples wrote the scriptures, greek was still the common tongue spoken by menbers of the church, until political views set in to favour Latin. In the Old Testament the subject was the "House of JUDAH" and the "House of ISRAEL." In the New Testament the subject is "JEW" and "GREEK." Why GREEK? Why not Chinese, African, or Indian? Because many of the DISPERSED ISRAELITES were living in GREECE.Yep, it was about the house of judah and not about worshiping God. Who the message is for is more important than what is in the message.[/quote]God commanded Amos to "Go, Prophesy unto my people ISRAEL" (Amos 7:14-15) -- not "gentiles."[/quote]God commissioned Micah "to declare ... to ISRAEL his sin" (Micah 3:  . Ezekiel was told, "Son of man, I send thee to the children of ISRAEL" (Ez.2:3).[/quote]And as at that time, what language did the people of isreal speak.? Christ said, "I was not sent but unto the LOST SHEEP of the HOUSE of ISRAEL". (Matt.15:24).So Bro, why are you now following jesus words. Are you from the house of isreal? Cus I no understand why you quote these scriptures o. It supports the translation to latin becauseThat does not mean there will not be issues with translations as it is with English. Its a different language. 2. understanding that there were no dictionaries or google or translator, a latin speaking Bishop entering into a region where yoruba was the only language would have to find a translator(if one existed) or learn yoruba and then use the yoruba he has learnt to teach the people there. How hard do you think it would be to start learning yoruba to a level of perfection that a Latin speaking Bishop would know the exact yoruba word to use for any latin word which would convey the exact meaning the latin word had?These same problem would occur to a bishop speaking greek. Multiply how many languages they would have had to do that for?Same problem with the translation of greek to Latin wound have occured in all other languages. I'm a polyglot so i know how hard it is to learn a new language with our current technology. Imagine how hard it would be if our environment and technology was at their level.I can imagine So you see, using one language they were sure of was and is better than trying to compile the bible in all languages available to them then.So that everyone who wants to read the bible in china would first have to learn how to speak Latin right? Where they not sure of greek and hebrew, why did they now change their language to Latin?. Why did they stop using greek? You are a christian, right? Does losing your life mean the same as losing your SOUL?You are shifting again, shifting from how a word can be translated ,and if its trranslated right or wrong to what it means to me. Does what it means to me affect how a word is translated or rather , how a word is translated determines what it means to me? Already answered above.Then I now Tell you that those word where inserted into the scriptures and should not be there! GOOD. A god is another god or a false god. A God is the same as God. Hope you see the difference now?Nop, God,god,GOD, mean the same thing. They are all translated from same greek word(s). But those that translated the greek word use those letterings to determing which person it is referring to. The small letters does not directly mean that such person or thing is a false god.[/quote]FIRSTLY, NO SERIOUS HISTORIAN ARGUES USING WIKIPEDIA because it is open to input by the general public and so is very inaccurate.[/quote]IM NOT AN HISTORIAN AND IM NOT ARGUING! It remains for you to prove that what I quoted are inacurate. But since you brought it up. I will advise that you and any body following this thread do research from sources that Historians use and not a free for all place like Wikipedia.I did not bring it up, you brought it up. Wikepedia puts some of the sources of the information it posted on the same webpage. I will advise that you and any body following this thread do research from those sources and detemine if the source is true or not. Let us treat this issue of rome and the Catholic(which means Universal) Church/Christianity.Yep, the real one, even the one that later claim the state church.[/quote]Christianity was singled out for persecution because Christians believed in ONE GOD and therefore condemned all the other gods of the Romans and world in General.[/quote]True christians did that, the apostles taught so and recorded so. They even went as far as telling us who that one God is, the father, just as jesus has taught ealier.[/quote]They said that all other gods were not gods at all. This much is obvious from the Gospels and the Epistles.[/quote]nop, they did not teach that.[/quote]Then Constantine (whose mother Helen found the true Cross) met with Lucinius. Remember that rome had divided and that Constantine and Lucinius were both Emperors of the two sections of the Roman empire. They met after the failure of the Great Persecution (initiated by the emperors Diocletian and Galerius in 303–304), the Christian church had begun to recover its stability. Constantine and Licinius turned their minds to matters affecting the general welfare of the Empire. They met at Milan and came to an agreement that all romans were free to worship who they wanted and so none should be persecuted any longer. We only about this by a document from Licinius (not even Constantine). Here's what the rescript says: “Our purpose is to grant both to the Christians and to all others full authority to follow whatever worship each person has desired, whereby whatsoever Divinity dwells in heaven may be benevolent and propitious to us, and to all who are placed under our authority. Therefore we thought it salutary and most proper to establish our purpose that no person whatever should be refused complete toleration, who has given up his mind either to the cult of the Christians or to the religion which he personally feels best suited to himself. It is our pleasure to abolish all conditions whatever which were embodied in former orders directed to your office about the Christians, that every one of those who have a common wish to follow the religion of the Christians may from this moment freely and unconditionally proceed to observe the same without any annoyance or disquiet.”[/quote]Pls provide source[/quote]So they did not establish the Church or Christianity but gave a decree to let it exist freely like other religions.[/quote]Never said they extablished the church or christianity, they established a state church!. How did he do that, by turning the already currupted church into a state apparatus or arm. And they loved it cus they now had political power. NEXT:A claim made by your church which the scriptures has shown as not true. In order to be fair, the Church held a Council in Nicea in 325 AD to hear him out. (SIDE NOTE: It was in this council that Saint Nicholas punched Arius for insulting the divinty of Jesus. Now Saint Nicholas is actualy celebrated as Santa Claus because he defended the fact that right from Jesus's conception and birth He was God.)Again you post false things . First you refuse to tell the source of ur info( something you have been doing) Secondly The church did not conveine the council of nicea like you are trying to imply. It was constatine that called the divided catholic church to hold a councll. Excerps from a website. "This discord, and the war which soon broke out between Constantine and Licinius, added to the disorder and partly explains the progress of the religious conflict during the years 322-3. Finally Constantine, having conquered Licinius and become sole emperor, concerned himself with the re-establishment of religious peace as well as of civil order. He addressed letters to St. Alexander and to Arius deprecating these heated controversies regarding questions of no practical importance, and advising the adversaries to agree without delay. It was evident that the emperor did not then grasp the significance of the Arian controversy. Hosius of Cordova, his counsellor in religious matters, bore the imperial letter to Alexandria, but failed in his conciliatory mission. Seeing this, the emperor, perhaps advised by Hosius, judged no remedy more apt to restore peace in the Church than the convocation of an ecumenical council. The emperor himself, in very respectful letters, begged the bishops of every country to come promptly to Nicaea. Several bishops from outside the Roman Empire (e.g., from Persia) came to the Council. It is not historically known whether the emperor in convoking the Council acted solely in his own name or in concert with the pope; however, it is probable that Constantine and Sylvester came to an agreement.......... The Council was opened by Constantine with the greatest solemnity. The emperor waited until all the bishops had taken their seats before making his entry. He was clad in gold and covered with precious stones in the fashion of an Oriental sovereign. A chair of gold had been made ready for him, and when he had taken his place the bishops seated themselves. After he had been addressed in a hurried allocution, the emperor made an address in Latin, expressing his will that religious peace should be re-established. He had opened the session as honorary president, and he had assisted at the subsequent sessions, but the direction of the theological discussions was abandoned, as was fitting, to the ecclesiastical leaders of the council...... The business of the Council having been finished Constantine celebrated the twentieth anniversary of his accession to the empire, and invited the bishops to a splendid repast, at the end of which each of them received rich presents. Several days later the emperor commanded that a final session should be held, at which he assisted in order to exhort the bishops to work for the maintenance of peace; he commended himself to their prayers, and authorized the fathers to return to their dioceses. The greater number hastened to take advantage of this and to bring the resolutions of the council to the knowledge of their provinces. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm You can also check these http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/First_Council_of_Nicaea[/quote]At the council, it was agreed and proclaimed that Jesus was, is and will always be God. (Note, they was no bible yet.) From this council we get the Nicene Creed which starts with "I believe in One God...."[/quote]And there the false teaching was cemented by the chairmanship of a emperor who still worships pagan 3 in one gods. There was no bible yet, but the scriptures where there for everyone to read. Abi was there any scripture written after then .[/quote]Shortly after he came to the Imperial throne(380 or 381AD), Theodosius made this edict which commanded everyone to be a Christian--but not just any kind of Christian because there were a lot of heresies already been spread. A Catholic Christian, it said, was one who held that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one Godhead and equal in majesty. This, of course, was the position of the Nicene Creed. Theodosius' decision was the result of his upbringing: he was reared in a Christian home, perhaps the first emperor to enjoy that distinction.[/quote]And you say the church did not become a state church. Even jesus did not force anyone to follow him, but your church did! This is the first time the legal code coerced people to become Christians.He wanted to control the leaders of the church , but those guys where smarter, so the catholic church ended up controling the affairs of the government, a situation jesus warned about . His behavior wasn't always Christian, however, as the premeditated massacre of thousands of civilians at Thessalonica in 390AD. When the city of Thessalonica rioted because a favored charioteer was imprisoned (for homosexuality). Theodosius ordered revenge: a chariot race was announced, citizens gathered in the arena, the gates were locked, and soldiers were set upon the crowd. By the end of the day, 7,000 had perished.Thus was Europe’s descent into intolerance, cruelty and control of the human conscience inflicted by a union of state and church. Forgotten was Christ’s edict, underlining their separation, when He accorded the church and the state separate arenas of influence: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. (Matthew 22:21) It was a small matter to move from persecution of pagans to persecution of devout Christians who opposed the increasing decline in faith and practice and the destruction of Bible doctrine among the Christian elite in Rome. NO EMPEROR FORMED A STATE CHURCH. THEY ONLY ACCEPTED CHRISTIANITY AS THE MAIN RELIGION.Even ur post says otherwise. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 7:49pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Jolliano:No sir, mary is not the ark of the covenant. Mary had nothing to do with the old covenant other than following it. And before you say anything, read Revelations chapter 11 from verse 18 to Chapter 12 verse 4.Oops! , I've said something, but I've read it sha. Also, Read the Scriptures quoted below concerning the. Blessed Virgin Mary and the Ark of the Covenant.Bro one thing I dnt like is trying to ascribe words or statements to scriptures in which the scriptures never made mention of those words or implied them. The verses did not say "God the holy ". It did not say "the ark bacame the dwelling place of the presence of God" Why are you now ascribing those words to the scripture when the scriptures says otherwise. Ex 40:34-38 Then a cloud covered the tent(or tebanacle, definitely not ark) of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.(it did not say "God the holy spirit"  . And Moses was not able to enter into the tent(not ark) of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle,[b](these shows you that it did not dwell in there) the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys: But if the cloud were not taken up, then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up. For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle(not ark) by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel,(everybody saw the cloud and fire, it cannot be in the ark or tebernacle cus there are restrictions as to who can enter the tebernacle.) throughout all their journeys. God the Holy Spirit overshadowed and then [b]indwelled Mary.[b] At that time Mary's womb became the dwelling place of the presence of God [ Luke 1:35 ].Another wrong analysis Luke 1:35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you,(her whole self, not just her womb. Remember, jesus was concieved) and the [b]power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.[/b] The holy one is the son of God not the "presence of God". Moreover, its on record that David prayed to God that he should not take the spirit away from him, that means the holy spirit dwells in David, does that make him the ark of the covenant too? The Ark contained the Ten Commandments [the words of God in stone], a pot of manna, and Aaron's rod thatNice one , but it does not make mary the ark of the covenant but rather attempts to make jesus the ark of the covenant. Is the attempt true, no. Let's look at some verses in the chapter of the verse you quoted again. heb 9: 1,6-7,9, 11-12 "1 Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for [b]the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption." Bro , as you can see, even jesus is not the ark but the high priest who brings blood into the tebernacle. The Ark traveled to the hill country of Judah to rest in the house of Obed-edom [ 2 Samuel 6:1-11 ]Bro, the ark went to many places that mary did not go to, before having a final place. Likewise mary. Using one of there journeys that look similar does not make mary the ark of covenant. Dressed in a priestly ephod, King David approached the Ark and danced and leapt for joy [ 2 Samuel 6:14 ].Haba bros, when did David become a priest equate his jumping with that of john.? When did john become a priest ? David shouted for joy in the presence of God and the holy Ark [ 2 Samuel 6:15 ]The verse says : 41 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And why is this granted to me that the mother of [b]my Lord should come to me? Bro, look at those words again, with the holy spirit inside her, she said, "mother of my lord" and not "mother of God". Stop changing the words of the scriptures. And neither did those words or actions imply mary was the ark of covenant. David asked, "How is it that the Ark of the Lord comes to me?" [ 2 Samuel 6:9 ]Even the translations you quoted did not say the same thing Bro. The context and the reasons for saying those words are also different. And if it is "come to me," you are trying to bring out, Bro , there are many "come to me" in the scriptures. The Ark remained in the house of Obed-edom for 3Another similarity , but for different reasons. The house of Obed-edom was blessed by the presence of the Ark [ 2 Samuel 6:11 ] The word "blessed" is used 3 times in Luke 1:39-45haha!, you for say the scriptures say that the house of Elizabeth was blessed na. The Ark returned to its sanctuary and eventually ends up in Jerusalem where the presence and glory of God isThe ark stayed in the temple mary did not. mary did not present God the son, she presented jesus, the son of God following customs. God made Aaron's rod (which would be kept in the Ark) return to life and budded to prove he was the legitimateCan you see how twisted ur explanation is. Does jesus represent the rod or Aaron. cus he can't represent both. Was the rod ever taking out of the ark to signify jesus leaving the womb of mary. When the Ark was outside the Holy of Holies [when it was being transported] it was to be covered with a blue veilNow you have left the scriptures to find similarities somewhere else. In Revelation 11:19 John sees the Ark of the Covenant in heaven [this is the last verse of chapter 11] In Revelation 12:1 John sees Mary in heaven. It is the same vision Juan Diego saw of Mary in 1531 — the Woman clothed with the sun and standing on the moon.[/quote]What!!, the woman that john saw is mary?! Ok pls tell us: 1. When did she become pregnant again and who give her belle. For verse 2 says " She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 2. When will mary come back to earth to be pursued by Satan . For verse 13 says : "When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 3 when did mary give birth to other children: Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus. Bro, "similarity" is not "same ". The scriptures never said the ark is mary, and mary was not recorded to be in heaven. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 3:48pm On Nov 14, 2015*. Modified: 7:44pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
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| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 11:48am On Nov 14, 2015 |
@ Jolliano: That's what I already said. Some jewish scholars reject anything not written in Hebrew. One of these might be the hatred for Christians (who wrote their NT in Greek). As at the time of Jesus, there was no general agreed list of OT Books.Bro, that was not what you said , you said [b]part of Esther was written in Greek[/b]and that the Jews rejected these parts cus it was in Greek. But I quoted a website that says that the book of Esther written in Greek was a retelling(with additions) of the book of Esther written in hebrew. Your refusal to give details about these book written in Greek makes me view that the website is right and that the Jews where right to reject the Greek version (a retelling)of an event that has already been recorded in hebrew. That the Greek version added extra data does not make it inspired or from God. Greek was Not a common language when these events occured, how come it was written in Greek . 1.Did you not notice the switch from Body(in which case is alive) and Eagles(used to represent the saved christians) TO Dead body(carcass) and Vultures (which cannot refer to christians)?I believe it is body, dnt know why some translations say carcass. But in what way does these support translating it into Latin. 2. Matt 16:26 --- There is a difference between losing lifeYou do not use personal views or formulated doctrines to translate the scriptures. As far as translating the Greek word for soul is concerned , both "soul" and "life" are right. Matt 24:28 is the matthew equivalent of Luke 17:37.Ok 3. 1 john 5:7-8.Ok, but note: the issue on those verses is not about translation, its about a deliberate insertion of words in the scriptures to support a doctrine. On this particular translation, there is an argument that No Church Father quoted it. Well, that is not true.Talking about church doctrine does not mean you are quoting a scripture. No matter how similar the words might be, they are definitely not the same. Pls show us the source of these info. I am not and have not been shifting base at all. I'm only pointing out to you whatSame thing that translation to Latin would have caused. NOTE--- there is difference between A God and a god. JW write "a god". You know what this means na.What is the difference between "a god " and "A God". Is it not to differentiate the almighty God from other gods? This statement has no proof even historically. That an empire was being destroyed and the Church hoped to save it. How?Nop, but making the church language Latin was part of their attempt. Note, I said the church derived "its political power" from the rulers of the world. Here are excerpts from a website . "Nicene Christianity became the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 CE, when Emperor Theodosius I made it the Empire's sole authorized religion.[1][2] The Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Catholic Church each claim to be the historical continuation of this church in its original form, but do not identify with it in the caesaropapist form that it took later.".......... "On 27 February of the previous year, Theodosius I established, with the Edict of Thessalonica, the Christianity of the First Council of Nicaea as the official state religion, reserving for its followers the title of Catholic Christians and declaring that those who did not follow the religion taught by Pope Damasus I of Rome and Pope Peter of Alexandria were to be called heretics." (what is a state church without a state) Continuing..... ”By the time the state church of the Empire was established at the end of the 4th century, scholars in the West had largely abandoned Greek in favor of Latin. Even the Church in Rome, where Greek continued to be used in the liturgy longer than in the provinces, abandoned Greek............ "By the end of the 6th century the Church within the Empire had become firmly tied with the imperial government,[40] while in the west Christianity was mostly subject to the laws and customs of nations that owed no allegiance to the emperor." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church_of_the_Roman_Empire 1. Jesus promised that The gates of hell would never prevail against the Church, that the Holy Spirit would guide her into all truth and that He would be with Her till the end of time.Never said the real church was no more there to imply it never existed. The church is made up of members who follow jesus headship, their location or building or recognition by the world does not make them a church. They followed jesus and the disciples directive to go to everywhere and preach and make disciples, going by such commands , they where able to save themselves from the effect of the state church. Excerpts from that same website . "Western missionary activities created a communion of churches that extended beyond the empire, a communion predating the establishment of the state church. [/b]The obliteration of the Empire's boundaries by Germanic peoples and an outburst of [b]missionary activity among these peoples, who had no direct links with the Eastern Roman Empire, and among Celtic peoples who had never been part of the Roman Empire, fostered the idea of a universal church free from association with a particular state. 2. The martyrdom continued constantly and is still occuring right now.Yep, but who now did the killing. "Constantine launched the first campaign of persecution by Christians against Christians, and began imperial involvement in Christian theology. However, during the reign of Emperor Julian the Apostate, the Donatists, who formed the majority party in the Roman province of Africa for 30 years, were given official approval. Did these persecution continue ? Read the following Edith. "it is our desire that all the various nations which are subject to our Clemency and Moderation, should continue to profess that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter, as it has been preserved by faithful tradition, and which is now professed by the Pontiff Damasus and by Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic holiness. According to the apostolic teaching and the doctrine of the Gospel, let us believe in the one deity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title of Catholic Christians; but as for the others, since, in our judgment they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious name of heretics, and shall not presume to give to their conventicles the name of churches. They will suffer in the first place the chastisement of the divine condemnation and in the second the punishment of our authority which in accordance with the will of Heaven we shall decide to inflict. — Edict of Thessalonica My brother, history is awash with such decisions to inflict. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 11:17am On Nov 13, 2015 |
Richirich713:Jesus said : john chapter 17:1-3,6 1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they He also said: John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" Keep on waiting for God to tell u directly that he is God almighty. He go do so shortly |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 10:51am On Nov 13, 2015 |
@ brocad. Its not easy to understand you with the way you write. Name your bibles with these numerous translations?So u did not check it out, well no problem, the truth aren't for everyone. Those who's heart are aligned to finding the truth would look at why some translations have a similar view of acts 8:37 with the NWT. Yes I agree studying to find the truth then studying to find fault,And you refuse to apply it, hence the statement below then I advise you-to read the bible written by God-not some bible written by the JW's. Theirs only one bible who claims Jesus isn't the Son of God-and its your bible who had chosen to re- write a new bible-trying to prove to our viewers that Jesus is no- more then the Ark Angel Michael.Even if you study to find fault, pls study the right things. You have seen the responses of several Jehovahs witnesses on these thread, has any of them said or implied that jesus is not the son of God? There are numerous statements in the scriptures telling us about jesus being the son of God, compare those verses in ur translation with NWT and come back to tell everyone here what you see. And besides what truth are you preferring too, you receive your truths from men, my truth are from God. What you don't understand is the bible isn't just a book that's written in the flesh' like every other fairy tale books like yours-it has a spiritual sideA lot of people always use these same story to show they are telling the truth. They use it simply cus they feel it can not be verified. Prophet mohamed used the same method, claiming spiritual influence. How do we know who is right or wrong? Not everyone shouting jesus!, jesus! Is telling the truth. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 9:44pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Jolliano:Yes, I did not see it, can you show me the scriptures again that the image mary is the ark. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 9:42pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Jolliano:I asked you to tell us just one so that we can be examining them one by one. So ill take the one of Esther. You did not provide details to ur believe that part of Esther was written in Greek, details like : when that part was written, who wrote it, why it was written in Greek. Note, I'm not saying that the part you are reffering to, was written in not written in Greek, but I just want us to both examine why it was rejected by others . So pls provide the info asked for . The statement below is what I found out from a website . "The Greek book of Esther, included in the Septuagint, is a retelling of the events of the Hebrew Book of Esther rather than a translation and records additional traditions which do not appear in original Hebrew version, in particular the identification of Ahasuerus with Artaxerxes and details of various letters. It is dated around the late 2nd to early 1st century BCE. Let me show/tell you some problems with translations. The fact that there is a Greek Septuagint, Latin Vulgate and Clementine Vulgate has not solved these differences in the bible translations we have.Pls state what the problem in translation is . http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htmThis is not a problem with translation, this is a problem with the attempt to include into the scriptures what is originally not there, its not about if it is translated wrongly but about the attempt by the church to include words into the manuscript to support one of their doctrines, a situation mordern translators are now correcting . http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-28.htmWhat is the problem with the translations of these verses? These are just some of the issues translations cause. Just as JW in their bible in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was a god".Very funny, you have been shifting the base of the discussion since, always bringing up new issues. I told you, the same issues that would have occured when translating Greek to Latin would have occured with English and any other language. On john 1:1 , there are numerous scholars who support the part of that verse to be translated as "a God". There are numerous translators who translated that verse as " a God" The use of "a God " best support the first part of that verse which says " and the word was with God. How does writing a Latin bible show loyalty to an empire that was already dying. The Councils met very close to 400AD and by then the empire was already divided into two and was being destroyed by Visigoths.Very simple, they hoped to save it cus it was the source of their political power. Not to mention the fact that the roman empire was responsible for an extreme number of martyrdom. Why would The Church be trying to show loyalty to their persecutors?!Martyrdom occured when the real church was there, when they where no part of the world, when they kept true the teachings of jesus and his disciples. It was persecuted as jesus foretold. But later when false leaders came up, those with ulterior motive taking control it, could them dip its fingers into the ruling power, through changes in what jesus and the apostles taught, making it look similar to pagan worship, so it can actract the populace. The church then began sitting and frolicking with these rulers, they turned from the one being killed to the one doing the killing. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 6:40pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
JustTara:Personaly I dnt think the scriptures makes mention of trousers. But it advises us on our mode of dressing, it is evident that jehovah does not like males dressing as females and females dressing as males, but is the trouser a male dressing? Does the trouser have both male and female versions.? Answers to both questions goes a long way in using the scriptures to determine the dress code of females. To cap it up, the scriptures admonishes us not to allow our behavior, attitude, appearance stumble others. So, if in a society wearing trousers is abhorrd for females or that ffemales are allowed to wear trousers for certain events and not be a stumbling bloke for others. It is advisable to stick to societal noms while still following scriptural instructions . As for retouching ur hair, me I dnt know o. But what I know is that church rules, without valid base from the scriptures cannot determine salvation, but as long as you are a member of a church, you must obey there rules while personaly searching the scriptures to see if what they are presently teaching you is true. Na you and not the church that will determine ur salvation. They're both claiming it's from the same book and commandments, yet contradicting each other.One will just ask them to provide scripture from which they derived their understanding. One man's meat is another man's poison. For those that say the Catholics are wrong for making use of statues, how do they defend themselves against the Jehovah Witnesses who say blood transfusion is wrong?The catholic church has failed woefully in using the scriptures to defend their use of the image of mary despite several times they have been asked to quote the scriptures. As you can see on these thread, they prefer to use the story that since they compiled the scriptures, they have the right to do certain things in certain ways that the scriptures does not support. They thus use their claim of perfection as the basis of their use of the image of mary, but the whole world knows how perfect they have been. Was just reading about the forced conversion to catholics in Bosnia and found no difference in that action and the actions of ISiS. On blood transfusion, the scriptures has repeatedly made mention of jehovah view of blood both in the old and new testaments. We are told to abstain from it. If one refuses to abstain from it cus it might(as its not a sure guarantee for good health)save its life, then he does not have faith in jesus that he will get his life back if he losses it, and does will lose his life even if he saves it. They talk about heaven, but their faith is false, cus faith without works is dead. I've seen the use of blood tranfusion on people I know,and I've seen that it sometimes if not mostimes create more problems that solves them. see...and it's the same God they are claiming to serve, the same Bible they are claiming to read.Some just claim to read, but they have their motive, to find verses that they can use to decieve others. To tickle their ears. There are a few examples of such misuse. but here is one. Some pastors will yell you to pay tithe, that if you pay it God will bless you ten folds as if God is a money doubler. But they will fail to tell you why God instituted the tithe, cus going there will show that they are not supposed to collect it. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 5:57pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
@ sistersister How can one God be threeIt is not only difficult to comprehend, but there are so many versions that one does not even know which one is the true version any longer. The only true God is the father, these jesus acknowleged in john chapter 17 I'm going to quote most parts of the chapter and show you(in brackets) how the father, son and holy spirit and not the only true God and how the son is not equal to the father. john chapter 17 1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. (jesus is Gods son, and not God the son) 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. (can you see that the authority that jesus had, to forgive sins, to heal, even to grant evalasting life was giving to him? He did not have it before, so he is not God almighty or equal to the father who gave him such authority and power and approval) 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (jesus makes it known to us that the father, whose name is jehovah is the only true God, not jesus, holy spirit and father ) 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. (and when jesus was glorified in his fathers presence, he was not made God almighty, he was told sit at the right hand of God almighty.) 6 “I have revealed you a to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. (jesus repeatedly letting us know who we belong to and who we should worship. He is also showing us how much loyalty he has for his God, the father) 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. (by virtue of inheritance) 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. (can you see that jesus being one with the father does not mean that jesus and the father are same or that they have same authority? Cus such analogy Cannot be applied here) 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.......... 18[b] As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.[/b] 20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be [/b]one as we are one[/b] 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” To be continued....... 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 2:21pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Jolliano:Old testament written in Greek? Pls tell us one of those books of the old testament originally Written in Greek! And let us examine. State some details about the book. And you are going off point! Are you saying the language of the church is Latin just to solve these problems?, or you are saying the apostles broke the rule by writing in Greek? I Neva understand you o. Errors that occur in translation are an huge problem and so one language had to be selected. The language of the time was Latin so they chose it.Big lie. If there are issues with translation, they could always check it up with the original language. The issues Latin will have with Greek is the same issue other languages will have with Greek. Latin is the language of the church cus the leaders chose it for personal reasons, mainly because of the present rulers in which they are close with. Latin is The main language of the Church does not mean I must know latin to be in the church. After all, the Mass is said in whichever language the People understand.The real church has no main language. One of the main reason of the establishment church is to spread the good news in watever language at any time. And the holy spirit prove these to be true as one of its first gifts is not to prophecy, not to give visions, not to heal, but to be able to preach in different languages and tongues , abi that one no dey ur bible, cus you could have removed it! That congregation and the congregations afterward spread the good news in different languages. And thereafter wrote the new testament in Greek, the most common language of different nationalities as at that time. Ur church wanted to loyalty of the roman empire, hence the adoption of one language, Latin as the language of the church, thereby trying to set back the work of the holy spirit. If as you mentioned , that Translation is an issue, the church should have talked to its members who had the gift giving by the holy spirit on languages to help translate the scriptures to other languages......Or maybe the holy spirit only give that gift in Latin or the holy spirit had even left the church and the lampstand taken away. Latin was the main language of Europe(at least) for about 1000 years. Do your research. Spanish,french,english are products of Latin!From when to when? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 11:51am On Nov 12, 2015 |
PastorAIO:Ill explain it the same way ill explain the Spanish, yoruba , igbo, efik bibles. They where translated so that the common people in those lands can read them and come to know who God is and the one he sent, jesus Christ. None of them is the language of the church. A bit of information that you may or may not find useful is the meaning of the word Vulgate. Vulgate is related to vulgar and it means common. Latin vulgate, is a translation into the common latin tongue.I find it usefull, so we can say Latin is/a common tongue at that time when it was being translated. But for the church to take is as a language of the church means that they have/ are frolicking with the rulers of the world at that time. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 11:34am On Nov 12, 2015 |
In continuation of the ^^^^^ @ brocad , have you ever checked why other numerous translations do not have acts 8:37.? Studying to know the truth is better than studying to find fault. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 11:13am On Nov 12, 2015 |
Jolliano:You started it! , I just joined in. By the way, we are not fighting, so nobody is getting defeated. The Roman empire had been in charge of Israel before the birth of Jesus hence the issue of Caesars but as a bible scholar you should know this already. The Latin language had already taken over most of their immediate surrondingds. This is similar to how the Old testament was written in Hebrew while the new testament was written in Greek. So if you say it was the issue of the ruling party, what about the switch from Hebrew to Greek.Very funny, the romans where in charge of isreal, yet the disciples wrote the scriptures down in Greek this should tell you that they followed the common tongue of the general populace and not just for their own people (the hebrew) and definitely not for government. For you to say that the language of the church is Latin, it shows that that church is frolicking and pleasing the rulers of that time. If truly the language of the real church is Latin, the church members( apostles ) would not have written it out in Greek. They have always been 73 books and will always be. TRUTH does not change.the truth , as stipulated by ur church with the backing of the rulers of these system of things. And here's a quote from Martin LutherYep , you are right. By the time he came, they had ready ascribed to themselves everything, lands,kings, laws, rulers, kingdoms, people, books schrolls etc. So if someone wanted anything or to spread the good news, he will have to go their way, or else get imprisoned or burnt for it. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 9:23pm On Nov 11, 2015 |
Jolliano:Yep, even the holy spirit was catholic. When heretics started teaching errors and writing rubbish books and attaching the names of apostles to them (e.g The infancy gospel of Thomas), the Church decided to select which books were divinely inspired and which were not. The council of Rome in 382AD made the list of inspired books and it was 73 books not 66.So what happened to the 7 inspired books . Saint Jerome was given the task to translate the hebrew and greek texts to Latin which was the language of the Church.So the church changed there language from Greek to Latin right? Bet it was the holy spirit that gave the command.....or probably it was the ruling goverment of the day that influenced such decision. Catholic church had been known to romance the ruling goverment of the day. The fact is, the Holy Spirit guided the Catholic Church toso are they now 66 or 73 books . |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 9:11pm On Nov 11, 2015 |
PastorAIO:Yep, even mary was catholic , jesus would have been too if not that he went to heaven early. People can claim anything just to seem right. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 1:29pm On Nov 11, 2015 |
@ sistersister Who is the Holy Spirit?The holy spirit is not s person. Jesus said he will ask the father for the holy spirit shows you that there is no equality between the jesus, the father and holy spirit. Have you ever wandered why no one has ever had a discussion with the holy spirit .? The Holy Spirit is not a vague, ethereal shadow, nor anNo scriptural proof to support the above. Moreover, the word "God the son' does not exist in the scriptures. Jesus said to His apostles...Can you see the bold, jesus categorically says that he had been giving authority! These helps is to understand two things 1. The was a time in which jesus did not have the authority he now has cus he was given these authority, these implies that jesus that at a time jesus was not God almighty . Jesus cannot later now be God almighty cus God almighty has always been God almighty with supreme authority. 2. That he was giving authority shows that their is someone superior to him who has giving him such authority. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And all the divineThese statement is false. Secondly, can all the attributes of the holy spirit be ascribed to the father? If not, then they are not equal. When a person becomes born again by believing and receiving Jesus Christ (John 1:12-13; John 3:3-21), God resides in that person through the Holy Spirit (1Cor. 3:16). The Holy Spirit has intellect (1Cor. 2:11), emotion (Rom. 15:30), and will (1Cor. 12:11).As you can see, all the above does not put the holy spirit and the father as equals . For example, let's look at this scripture Acts 2: 32,33 "God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 ( jesus is)Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear." You can see from the above who gave jesus the holy spirit to pour down on his disciples. If the holy spirit had been a person, equality is far from each of them . Even David during his trying times begged the father, jehovah not to take the holy spirit away from him. This shows you that the father is the almighty God, the only true God as jesus specifically told us . There are others reasons that can be stated to show you that the holy spirit is not a person, but ill first like you to study on the Greek word "auto" as used in john 14:17 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 3:01pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
@ sistersister Who is Jesus? Is Jesus God? [/b] http://This is false , as jesus never said "he was God", talkless of ”God almighty”. The site started on a false note. He made his identity the focal point of his teaching.another false note, he made the kingdom of God the focal point of his teachings. He told some of those he healed that they should tell, so that he can go about his preaching and teaching work in peace. The all-important question he put to those who followed him was, "Who do you say I am?" When Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ,Mark 8:29-30 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.” Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him. Jesus was not shocked cus peter answered correctly, therefore he could not have rebuked peter. jesus is the messiah and not God almighty . He was sent by God. But the Jews had wrong hope for the messiah so revealing such info to the public at that time would not good. Jesus frequently referred to "My Father," and his hearers got the full impact of his words. We are told, "TheJesus even said God is our father, that the father is our God. Therefore if we take the statement made by jesus to mean jesus is God like the Jews wrongly understood. Then humans too are God, cus jesus and peter said that the father is our god and we can be his children and jesus brothers. 1 cor 8: 6 John 20:17 Heb 2:10-18 we that have more knowledge about jesus than those Jews showed know they had a wrong understanding of what jesus is saying. It is wrong for us to use their wrong understanding to describe what jesus is saying, jesus said he is the "son of God ", he did not say "he is God " 3 On another occasionIf you read the verses verry well, you will see that jesus showed them that he has the authority and power to forgive sins and heal the sick . He showed them that they where wrong in their views . Jesus told us in the scriptures that this authority was giving to him, he received it from the father to show you that at a time he never had such authority and thus he is not God. If we are to take jesus as God cus he can forgive sins, then we have to take the disciples as God cus they had the authority to forgive sins and the power to heal, even raise the dead. Can you see that the attempts so far by website to say jesus is God is so far false and full of holes? When Jesus was on trial for his life, the high priest put the question to him directly: "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"Can you see again that jesus did not say he is God? He acknowledged that he is the son of God. And when he goes to heaven , he will be at the right hand of God . So close was Jesus'Why is all these possible between these two persons, it is possible cus jesus said " I do nothing of my own will , but what I see the father doing is what I do " . All jesus knows , he learnt it from the father. so far , you have not answered the question on if jesus is a person . Cus you said God is not a person. To be continued ....... |
| Christianity Etc › Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 1:38pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
@ sistersister I'll be breaking my reply into different posts so that it wunt be too lenghty . It is common knowledge medically, scientifically, etc. that man/human beings have a mind, body and spirit. You do know this of yourself personally, yes? There is too much evidence to support this and is easily located online or offline.Yes man has it, like man also has conscience, feelings and water, that man has the three you mentioned does not mean that is what they are made of. In the book of genesis we were told how man came to exist and how he became to be a living being(soul). Two things where mentioned there, not three. The mind you made mention of is a function of the body, mostly the brain part of it. It is true to say that apart from an external supernatural force ( e.g the holy spirit, demons and angels) affecting ur body, the functions of your mind are directly affected and determined by what the body is able to physically assimilate to the brain through the senses of smell, sight, touch, taste, and hear. No thought of urs has come to play outside these body functions. To go further, when these body receives these information from the physical world, it also determines the minds response through the release of complex chemicals and enzymes in the body, which determine or aid our feelings and how we respond. Another example is when we examine a mad man. A mad man's mind can be corrected by physical drugs and the external control of information coming to the body in a controlled environment. Likewise a sane mind can be made insane the same way, to show you that our physical body is our mind, the body is being made active, animated by the spirit/breathe of life/force as the scriptures tells us, and when such force is no longer operational in the body, it will not be able to have the function of the mind. The scriptures never taught us about such trinity of man. Scripture shares that God is Spirit, though Jesus did take on humanity and dwelt among us during his earthly ministry.We will look at what the website says as see if it is right or wrong. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:1-2 (KJV)The quote of john 1:1 you posted is a translation of the Greek words in the manuscripts into English, pls can you find out why some Translators and scholars prefer to use "a God" " a divine being" in that verse.? This is a webpage you can start from. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1 Pls Take note of the advise you mentioned on taking verses, we will use such advise in this discussion. My next post will be on the website you posted |
| TV/Movies › Re: What Movie Are You Watching Now? by dolphinheart(m): 12:23pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
Watched maze runner: scotch trials yesternight , nice way to make you look forward to the next one. Me too will "like some revenge". Got the books, hope it wunt later be as boring and the third book of divergent. Best book(s) in which a movie or series is based on so far goes to "game of thrones(series) and "a song of ice and fire" (the books its based on) . Negative part is that you can't fully know how deep the plots in the film are unless you read the books. Second is Bourne novels and movies. Negative aspect is that both(movies and books) are very good, but they are identically very different. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 12:04pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
Ubenedictus:Okay, if that's the onlything you see in those pictures and websites |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 12:01pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
Jolliano:The catholic church wrote, compiled and preserved the scriptures?! Pls tell, where when and how did these occur. |
| TV/Movies › Re: What Movie Are You Watching Now? by dolphinheart(m): 4:40am On Nov 10, 2015 |
Dfrenzy:Click on the link in the post above |
| TV/Movies › Re: What Movie Are You Watching Now? by dolphinheart(m): 4:38am On Nov 10, 2015 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 10:38pm On Nov 09, 2015 |
Ubenedictus:Pls answer my questions in colour. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 10:34pm On Nov 09, 2015 |
PastorAIO:Nop, just saying that all man requires for salvation was written down so that in the future, no man or group of men can come up and bring a doctrine or teaching claiming its from the holy spirit talking to him or them. With the scriptures we can know fake holy spirit from real holy spirit. You and I do know that a lot of people do claim that the holy spirit is showing them things. Some na only disaster e dey show them . |
| TV/Movies › Re: What Movie Are You Watching Now? by dolphinheart(m): 10:27pm On Nov 09, 2015 |
tolexy007:You can see why I had to go check if they where safe in the end before continuing to watch the film. Though she has not watched it yet , but I can picture my sister screaming when it was discovered that the elder girl had gone swimming : "Omo olori buruku alayi gboron!!! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 9:47pm On Nov 09, 2015 |
@ Esdb3: For you to make this statement shows how small-minded you are. Jesus came to the earth in the form of a what? A man. God is in the form of a what? Spirit.Are you saying that if almighty God changes form man can see him and live? Let me use the scriptures to explain to you what I said . Ex 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. (this is the almighty God talking here o ) 1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. (note again, this is john, a disciple of jesus, who has seen jesus on countless occasion saying: no one has seen God at any time.) John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god(differenciating the almighty God from a created God) who is at the Father’s(almighty God, true God) side is the one who has explained Him. The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and he said: “See, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! ( the almighty God is not the lamb, and the scriptures has shown that the true God/ almighty God/ father is a different person from jesus/the lamb/ mighty God/ only beggotten God) so John 14 5-11 was Jesus lying? I didn't write that verse afterall.Yep, you did not write that verse and jesus was not lying, he told us his relationship with the father, his God. Everything he does , he learnt from the father and and does not do a single thing by himself. "Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. So you know more than john in 1john 1:18 or more than Jesus in john 14 5-11?Bro, ill appreciate if you do not use Derogatory word(s) The book of john 14 :5-11 was talking about jesus and the father. Now using ur explanation, is the father God and jesus the voice of the father? Who is the man and who is the voice of the man. Now the big question: is jesus the father? The answer to this question will help u a lot in understand the scriptures you mentioned. Nobody is saying God is not at the top of the hierarchy, what we are saying is that Jesus is God and God is Jesus yet God is greater than Jesus. When you get to heaven you can ask God or Jesus what the statement means. Oh! Sorry my bad you won't be going to heaven afterall. Don't worry those of us that go there will send you people the explanation.I dnt need to ask jesus , cus he never made such statement. He has already clarified his position in relation to the father, his God. John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" 1 cor 11:3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. This God that is the head of Christ is definitely not jesus, so back to you, who is that God.? Bro I have not said anything apart from what the scripture taught me. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I'm A Pentecostal, I Attended A Catholic Church For The First Time And... by dolphinheart(m): 4:40pm On Nov 09, 2015 |
Kamxin:Catholic clergy, action speaks louder than words.
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