₦airaland Forum

Hiswordxray:
Life to God is not continuous existence and death is not cease of existence. God is a spirit and spirit don't cease to exist. I would try to explain both life and death according to my understanding of the Bible.

God is the Creator and the giver of life. But there are different kind of life mentioned in the Bible and they are:
1) Life Of Nature: This is a natural life that every creature has.
"The Word gave life to everything that was created,... " (John 1:4 NLT)
This is also the life that God breath into Adam and it sometimes refer to as the breath of God.
2) Eternal Life: This is different from immortality. The evil spirits are immortal but they don't have eternal life. Immediately an angle sin he losses eternal life. All those who lives in the kingdom of God (or the kingdom of heaven) has eternal life. Eternal life is like a citizenship of God's kingdom. The people of the old covenant do not have eternal life but they can only have it when they dead i.e their soul will have to wait in the good side of Sheol until Jesus dies and give them eternal life. But for we under the new covenant immediately we get born again we receive eternal life because we are born into God's kingdom.
3) Life Of God's Word: This life makes us resistance to the law of death (I would talk more about this later). All the people in the old covenant are under the kingdom of darkness (which can also be called the kingdom of death). All those in this kingdom are spiritually dead and are ruled by the law of death. But the life of God's word makes the saints of the old covenant resistance to the law of death. This was why they were able to be righteous despite their death state. If you read all through the old testament especially the books of Psalm you would realize that God's word gives them life.
"Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David." (Isa 55:3)
4) The Divine Life Of God: All living things have their own life and they live by their life. Lion live by the life of a lion, Chicken live by the life of a chicken and fish live by the life of a fish. So also God has His own life and His life contain His nature.
"by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2Peter 1:4).
Jesus lived by the life of God and believers also receive this life.
"As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me." (John 6;57)
"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself," (John 5:26)
As Christians we have to stop living by knowledge (laws and code of conduct) and human life but we need to learn how to live by the divine life of God.


But for death there are only two types of death which are Death and Eternal Death. Physical death is not a type of death but a physical manifestation of death. Death itself is spiritual as a result there is nothing like spiritual death (spiritually dead is a more accurate term). Death according to the Bible can be in different form.

1). Death as a kingdom: - The kingdom of the devil is the same as the kingdom of darkness which is the same with the kingdom of the word which can also be called the kingdom of death. In this kingdom all the citizens are spiritually dead. Therefore when Jesus said we pass from life to death it is the same
as what Paul said that we are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of the son of God (Col 1:13).

2). Death as a law: - The kingdom of death is ruled by the law of death. Paul described this law when he said "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom 7:23). Paul is saying the law of death is operating in him and warring against the law of is mind (which is his will ) and bringing him to
always obey the law of sin which is inside him. Paul was describing when he was still spiritually dead before he knew Christ, remember he said "when the commandment came" (Rom 7:9). Paul was talking about when he just learn of the law.

3). Death as fruit: - When we adhere to sin we
produce sin onto death. Paul mentioned this in Rom 7:5 "For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit onto death."
We know the fruit of the spirit is then the fruit of death would be murder, adultery, lies etc. Whether we are believers or not we could produce fruit onto death when we think and heart carnally.

4). Death as Being Inactive:- The spirit nor the soul is never dead in this sense but the body can become inactive when the vital organs are not functioning. This is when life leaves the body. Now life cannot leave the spirit of a man because the breath of life was breathed into the body not the spirit. But a spirit is said to be dead when it is living in the kingdom of
death or it is in hell (second death). This is also called physical death and it is the physical manifestation of death (remember death itself is spiritual).
The reason why Christians die physically even after receiving the life of God is because God's life only revive their spirit not their body. The body is still spiritually death even after salvation.
"For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." (Rom 8:6)
Carnal is the same thing as flesh and that verse is saying the flesh is dead. Therefore each time we allow the flesh control our thought then we are walking in the kingdom of death and we would produce fruits onto death. But this doesn't mean we are spiritually dead (spiritually dead means to be a citizen of the kingdom of death) it simply means as citizens of the kingdom of God we have foolishly wondered into the kingdom of the devil and the evil in the kingdom of the devil (sin, sickness, poverty, depression etc) will jump on you. But God is good and He is always ready to cleans us.

Anytime the word death is mentioned in the Bible it could be in any of the form listed above based on the context.

The other type Of death is eternal death.
"With teachings about purifying, the laying on of hands, the resurrection from the dead, and eternal judgment and punishment. [These are all matters of which you should have been fully aware long, long ago.]" (Heb 6:2 AMP)
Eternal death can also be call second death.
"Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Rev 20:14).
This is were all those who do not have eternal life will end up.


But for the book of Enoch, Jude quoted it when he said "Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints," (Jude 1:14)
You can't find anywhere in the Bible where Enoch prophesy but you can find this exact same word in the book of Enoch 1:9.
If you want to know more about the book of Enoch research it yourself. And when you do, research it with an open mind.

1) Sir, my question was simple. I asked , Pls what is eternal life and what is immortality,? what's the difference between the two?.

You did not tell us what eternal life is and what immortality is,neither did you tell us the difference between the two. You went on to describe ur view on who has one or both.

My remark/answer: you stated that "Life to God is not continuous existence and death is not cease of existence." . Sir , if life to God is not continous existence , then life can cease to exist when it does not continue, and with scriptural quotations(which u have not refuted any), I have shown you what happens to man when he ceases to exist. Death( in man)is the siesure of life.

You stated :"God is a spirit and he cannot cease to exist" . That does not mean that his created spirit creatures cannot cease to exist, why ? Cus they where created and unless granted eternal life, they can cease to exist. Or are you saying that God cannot reverse his works, he created the spirits and can uncreate them. Thereby sending them back to the state they where before their existence , and that is non -existence.



2) I asked; Pls give instances in the bible where man is said to be spiritualy dead and let's look at it . ?

This instances you did not mention . You went on to state that the kingdom of the dead is the state where those who lived before jesus where, and that the light of God made them to be resistant to the laws of death.

My remarks/answers: this mumbo-jumbo explanations does not work. You had early told me that the spiritualy dead are those who are alive on earth and lost touch with God as a result of Adams sins,and that is why they died. Now you are saying they are those in the kingdom of death, which is hell(the grave). Is someone alive and not yet dead also in the kingdom of death? (blibical prove pls)?
And also pls give instances where the word spiritual(y)dead or death is mentioned in the bible and let's exermine it.

What is the law of death?


3) the mumble jumble answer to 2 above will make me repeat this questions : (A)Is abel, Noah, moses, David , peter, paul, Isaiah, john, and those who where anointed by the holy spirit spiritualy dead while they are alive?
If yes : how come they where still anointed with holy spirit (comunication with God) because spiritual dead means non communication with God.

If no: why did you then state that adam and his descendants are spiritualy dead.


(B) Are those who performed the act of resurrection before and after jesus spiritualy dead?

(C) Is lazarus who was resurrected by jesus spiritualy dead?

(D) Please what do you really mean by spiritualy dead (add sriptural prove pls) ?

(E) If being spiritualy alive is what adam lost , what is the difference between perfect adam before the sin and his descendants in terms of there relationship with God. ?


(F) What is the difference in the spiritual awareness of perfect adam and that of moses, elijah, paul and john. ?


4) to the book of enoch: this are questions that you did not answer
(A) Are you saying that the book of enoch is inspired of God? (add prove)

(B) Who wrote the book of enoch(add prove)

(C) When was it written (add prove)

(D) Did james say he quoted from the book?
James made mention of the prophesy of enoch , he did not state he quoted from a particular book . That the book also contain that same prophecy does not mean james quoted from the book.


Now let me make a general reply to what you posted:


The opposite of life is death ; deut 30, 15,19: See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction.
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.

If you delibrately dnt follow Gods Word, when you die , u will not have life . If you follow Gods word, when you die , you will have ur life back.

The Life in man and death of man is same and with same eventuality.

Life is when man has breathe and can function . Death is the opposite.

Death is when that lifeforce/breath leaves the physical body of man and animals

Ps 104:29 ; When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath,they die and return to the dust.

Ps 146:4 ; When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.

Ec 8:8 ;There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall
wickedness deliver those that are given to it.

Why does man die
Adam sinned and the consequence was death. When he had offsprings , he passed that sin and its consequence unto them and thus man dies.
(ROM 5:12 , 6:25)

God promised us life in the future when his son has payed the ransom for mankind if we follow him . If we dnt follow him, we dnt have that gift and we dnt exist .
That life that God gives will never end cus the reason or cause for the loss of that life has been removed , namely sin. thus death is no more.

what happens to man when he experiences death has been explained with numerous verses .

Isa 55:3 is telling us that if we serve God, we shall have life when the cause of death, sin is being removed .
All life , lion, chicken , man is the same , with same eventuality, the only difference is the gift of resurrection and eternal life .

2Peter 1:4. the divine nature is spirit nature, therefore those going to heaven will change their physical body to a spirit body.
John 6;57: jesus life is sustained by God, and God granted jesus the power to Give life to us .


Just like life, eternal life, death, eternal death . The opposite of eternal death is eternal life. If you have eternal death, there is no hope for you having life again .

We are physical beings, we are flesh. The bible says when man losses his spirit/life force, he/the man turns to dust /dies. The man dies physicaly .

"But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom 7:23).

In the bible , there is the ilustrative use of death. Death is personified as a ruler ruling over mankind from the time of Adam ( Ro 5:14), along with the rule of Sin. (Ro 6:12) Thus, these rulers are spoken of as exercising their “law” over those subject to their dominion. ( Ro 8:2) With Christ’s coming and the provision of the ransom, undeserved kindness began
exercising a superior kingship over those accepting God’s gift, “with everlasting life in
view.”— Ro 5:15-17, 21.
Though men, disregarding God’s purposes, may try to make their own pact or covenant with the ruler Death, it will fail. ( Isa 28:15, 18)


Death as Being Inactive:- "the soul that is sinning , it itself will die . When man / a soul dies, he becomes inactive because the for that makes him active has left.
Rev20:14.: death and the condition or place of dead people will be cast into the lake of fire , this means death will be no more, and those who have not been giving life will be no more. No longer exist .

chieveboy:
one thing with having to define boundaries when it comes to knowledge or information is that more cant be added. Am not from the christian point of view...science?...well science has got some thing to say but had not 'gotten there yet'.

I don't want to dwell in what the Bible said or did not. Like l said Soul--like you @CHM11 is a UNIT OF AWARENESS. Think about the US Airforce, the US Airforce comprise different jets,ammos, tactics etc, so when you say 'US air force' you are talking about the entirety of the 'every every'. Like-wise consciousnes;, 'it is a state of being that is a function of awareness of a situation, object,place, etc at a given point...and is expressed.

You rightly said a person in coma is 'switched off'...welcome to 'duality 101' If l switch off light or something, l simultaneously switch on[/b]the oppossite-darkness! Coma primarily means [b]unconsciousness of the physical body...and consequently unconsciousness of another one... if you are going to heaven, leave the one that is buried in the grave and use another one...else who or which body do you use to stand before God?...That being said...people souls don't sleep and can't sleep as they are a unit of awareness; they simply shift awareness from the body which sleeps and venture into the subtle version of the physical world aka spirit world aka first heaven. Memory of that event is what is termed 'Dreams'. Note that the dream worlds are real together with the people in it...more real than the physical world--thanks to the physical's limited-dimensionality.

This may give you more insight to whatever the Bible summatively implies about what happens in death...death means complete switch off as you say...'sinners' and 'righteous' have been saved and deprived of some 'treat' in heaven don't you think?

Is this from the bible, science or personal opinion ?

I do wish the Bros recovers , I pray for Gods will to be done on his issue , felt sad when I heard the marriage part.

@ hiswordxray

............ Continued

Pls what is eternal life and what is imortality,? what's the difference between the two?.
Answers to these questions will help us a lot in our discussion .

Pls give instances in the bible where man is said to be spiritualy dead and let's look at it . ?
Is abel,Noah, moses, David , peter, paul, Isaiah,john,and those who where anointed by the holy spirit spiritualy dead?
Are those who performed the act of resurrection before and after jesus spiritualy dead?
Is lazarus who was resurrected by jesus spiritualy dead?
Please what do you really mean by spiritualy dead (add sriptural prove pls) ?

If being spiritualy alive is what adam lost , what is the difference between perfect adam before the sin and his descendants in terms of there relationship with God. ?
What is the difference in the spiritual awareness of perfect adam and that of moses, elijah, paul and john. ?

On the book of enoch
Are you saying that the book is inspired of God? (add prove)

Who wrote the book of enoch(add prove)
When was it written (add prove)

Did james say he quoted from the book?

End of reply

@ hiswordxray

........Continued




* you stated the following : Sheol/Hades belongs to those who are spiritually dead, who lived in the kingdom of darkness.

My remarks/ answers: no one is alive in any state ones he dies and know nothing when he dies, why ? Cus the bible says so.

Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

(the dead experience neither joy nor torment. Indeed, since they are unconscious, they cannot experience anything at all)


Ecclesiastes 9:10 ; Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Ps 115:17 ; The dead cannot sing praises to the LORD, for they have gone into the silence
of the grave.

Ps 146:4 ; His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Isa 38:18 ;"For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness.

The soul that is sinning will die(go to hell )

Can you merge the verses I quoted above with you belief that people in hell are concious or they are aware of their condition ?


*You stated : "As the scripture says, “When he went up to the very heights, he took many captives with him; he gave gifts to people.”
9 Now, what does “he went up” mean? It means that first he came down to the
lowest depths of the earth." (Eph 4:8-9).
Jesus went to Sheol and came out with many captives and those captives are the
saints of old.
"13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the
kingdom of the Son of His love," (Col 1:13).

(pls I dnt understand what or how u are trying to link the bible verses you quoted together, where did you get the first part you quoted from).

To be continued ........

@ hiswordxray

I'm happy that you have agreed on the issue of the external force acting on our physical being .
Man is flesh, flesh activated by the life force giving by God to adam.
The same spirit that is in me is also the same spirit that is in animals.
Adam and the animals where not giving souls, they became souls when there physical body became activated by Gods life force.

Now to the issue of adam

1.) you said "Adam flesh became flesh and his soul went to Sheol".

I've proved to you that adam does not have a soul different from his flesh .
When adam was created , he was created as perfect flesh and did not become flesh when he sinned. He was flesh since the first day he was created .
Remember what God told him " from dust you are"

Adam as a soul (living being ) went to sheol(hell) when he died . Hell/sheol/hades is the common grave where humans , whether righteous or unrighteous, good or evil go to when they die.
Throughout the inspired Scriptures, Sheol/hell/ hades/grave( all meaning the same thing) is continually associated with death and not life.
1Sa 2:6;
2Sa 22:6;
Ps 18:4, 5; 49:7-10, 14, 15; 88:2-6; 89:48;
Isa 28:15-18 ;
also compare Ps 116:3, 7-10 with 2Co 4:13, 14.

It is spoken of as “the land of
darkness” (Job 10:21) and a place of silence. (Ps 115:17)

Abel apparently was the first one to go to Sheol, and since then countless millions of human dead have joined him in the dust of the ground.

Now what does the bible say is condition of man(soul) when he dies and go to hell.

The dead are shown to be “conscious of nothing at all”/ "don't know anything" and the death state to be one of complete inactivity/no thoughts, thinking. ( Ec 9:5, 10; Ps 146:4)

Those dying are described as going into “the dust of death” ( Ps 22:15)

In death there is no mention of God or any praising of him. No life remembers or praise God in hell/sheol
Ps 6:5; For in death there is no remembrance of you: in the grave who shall give you
thanks?
Isa 38:18, 19;For the grave cannot praise thee, death
can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth


In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. ( Ps 13:3; Joh 11:11-14)




2). U still have not answered the question on number 2 and ill restate it below

2)All men have immortal soul, whether good or bad.
(So y u come say adam lost imortality when he lost his spiritual closeness to God and
he became dust? )
(what is death , if its not the loss of life?)
(What does the bible say happens to man
when he dies)
( Which bible verse tells us directly (no derived analogy pls)that man is still alife after death.



3). If I'm wrong in my understanding about what you said on 3rd question(s)pls correct me,

*You stated that adam is presently alive in heaven, But he went to the good side of hell before jesus took him to heaven .you based this on the parable of jesus about the rich man and lazarus and ROM 10: 6-7

My remarks/ answer : adam is not presently in heaven why? Cus as at the point of his death, the hope of heaven was not his hope or that of the righteous ones before jesus came to earth. The first mention of heavenly hope was made by jesus when he came to earth. Heaven is only for those that where "born again" , who knew jesus cus its through his name and knowledge of him that they will ascend into heaven .
Now if adam is in heaven, and he went to heaven when jesus went to hell and then took him(adam) to heaven with him, the following questions requires answers
A. Where where they(the resurrected ones) when jesus was resurrected and still on earth for weeks after his resurrection? .
Did they go to heaven before jesus ascended and presented his ransome sacrifice to his God?
Did they go heaven before jesus had a chance to prepare a place for them .?
If after jesus has immediately sent them to heaven when he was resurrected, who are the righteous that are going to be resurrected with the unrighteous after the last day? Remember that the bible verse you are quoting to defend ur beliefs are made by those who are still alive and are not dead yet, so what happens to them immediately they die, do they go to hell or not?
What happens to a present day righteous man ?.
Do you know that those who will ascend to heaven either dead or alive (first resurrection)will do so at jesus coming , I want to hear ur view, has jesus come or is he still coming?

To be continued.

If those that worship god after tribulation Go to heaven : 1 why did they not go with the rapture initialy (answer with bible prove pls)
2. Is there going to be 2 raptures? One before and one after the great tribulation? (answer with bible prove pls)

Ubenedictus:
exactly!

Easter hardly falls on 14th of Nissan.

That is another effect of the council of Nicea. I told you earlier that before nicean different arms of the catholic church had different dates for easter.

It was in nicean that it was agreed that easter should be celebrated on any sunday which fell around 14th of Nisan, sometimes easter and 14th nisan are many days apart.

Easter hardly falls on 14th Nisan, if you think am lying go make the research, the day of Christs resurrection and the day easter is celebrated are usually days apart.

Oga, my question is, are you saying ur Easter date does not align or fall in line with Nissan 14.

I know that the Easter is not always celebrated on Nissan 14. Easter is not on Nissan 14 , even if its to be celebrated , then it should be Nissan 16/17.
The reason why I mentioned Nissan 14 was because this date was mentioned in the scriptures in relation to the date jesus died and you celebrate jesus resurrection which happened 2 days later.

Now Easter date is fixed in another style unlike the christmas date (this is the point I'm trying bring out). Easter date is fixed by choosing the nearest sunday in the year the day Nissan 14 falls on in the gregorian calender.(which is still wrong anyway and done for selfish reasons and pride). Easter should have been celebrated on any day Nissan 16/17 falls on.

So why is this done for the Easter, which date can be figured out with the hebrew calender, and not done with the christmass celebration that you claim also have a hebrew date.?
Why is the Christmas date fixed on the gregorian calender and the surer date Nissan 14 used to calculate Easter is not fixed on the same calender.?

@ hiswordxray

I'm not saying that any experience that is not written in the Bible is not of God. I'm saying that such experience is personal to the person that experienced it and only that person and God knows the truth. But there is one way that all can know that that person has the holy spirit, and it is if such person displays its fruitage.

By manifestation , if you mean actions , then I dnt know , but the bible is a sure guide for us to shift fake from reality, lie from truth, evil spirit from holy spirit. Remember it is not only by performing wonders, miracles and prophecy, Satan can also do that

Reading the bible guides me on how to act in everyday life. If you allow the word of God to guide ur heart, ur concience will be strong enough for you to discern good from bad, right from wrong, thus having the ability to make the right decisions. That is why paul said "the scripture is completely equipt for every good work " vital for our salvation .

Jesus said he will sent us a helper, the holy spirit. That helper as he has done in the bible is to help us in understanding things better and not primarily to tell us what to do in our personal life in every circumstances, like some people today will tell you the spirit tells them to go out or stay in or to go to the toilet.
Some people want the holy spirit to tell them everything, show them everything and not to work and use their brain for their salvation.
When moses had the spirit of God, he made personal decisions for himself and for the nation of isreal , and they lived with the consequences , some good, some bad. Likewise David, Solomon, jonah,and the apostles. all anointed and appointed servants of jehovah.

What questions can't the bible train you/give you directions or tell you the outright answer.?


Concerning my questions:
1)God said Adam was made out of dust and when he died he would turn to dust.

(So since adam died and has not been resurrected , he is still dead and thus he is still dust right?right) .


2)All men have immortal soul, whether good or bad.

(So y u come say adam lost imortality when he lost his spiritual closeness to God and he became dust? )

(what is death , if its not the loss of life?)

(What does the bible say happens to man when he dies)

( Which bible verse tells us directly (no derived analogy pls)that man is still alife after death.


3)In heaven.

(If adam and his descendants could go to heaven and live forever if they repented and serve God , why did jesus have to come to earth?)
, why did he have to die for our sins since we could just repent and gain evalasting life like our father adam who you said is now in heaven)

(Why did jesus now say "no one has ascended into the heavens " when he was on earth.)

(Why did peter say " David has not ascended into heaven" )

(Why did paul state that the faithfull ones of old are dead and are awaiting resurrection to receive the reward they foresaw in the future.)

(Why does jesus need to shout and have the trumpet blown to resurrect people on earth , while they are ready with him in heaven .)

If they are alive in heaven, who will then come out of hell when hell gives up the dead in it ?

cao:
@Preboy, did you watch Pirates! In An Adventure with Scientists!? I really liked that one. To be honest, Aardman Animations could release claymation of drying paint and I would probably watch it.

I read some of ur posts and I have to say that anything you say about movies will be accepted by me . So pls be my guide .
Can u tell me five interesting and recent movies that I can download .

To give you an idea of movies I like , ill name some of the ones I found interesting and watched over and over again .
Guardians of the galaxy
Thor
American sniper
X-men films
Transformers
Hobbit and lord of the rings
Edge of tommorow
Jack Ryan
Divergent
Dracula untold
Now you see me

I guess with this you will know the kinda films ill like . So can you guide me on the next five films to watch ?

Goodkidd:
Lol I beg to disagree. I think Fury was more intense. Also the lack of a very good melancholic soundtrack kinda made American Sniper dull but the movies is a classic anyway. Clint Eastwood is a legend and all but I'd rank Lone survivor over American Sniper tho

Watched American sniper, then spent hours reading everything on Chris kyle. Now ill love to read his book . I have not watched fury yet, but do you think it will have the same effect on me, say yes make I download immediately.

purplekayc:
So much hype about this movie dont know maybe to call it a comedy
or action film.
This is the worst marvel movie have seen so far

Whaaaaaaaaaaat!! , I fear u o! .

With ur post , I can bet that most won't believe ur opinions or views on movies again, even if you are right

@ Hiswordxray

oga!, I never said or implied that because I have not experienced something, that means it does not exist o! Pls dnt twist the direction of the discussion.
I told you if there is a reaction by your physical body to something , and that reaction is not governed by what you have seen, presently seeing, what you have learnt, presently learning, what you feel,think, thinking,(all physicaly done by ur brain), then it must come from a spiritual source. I dnt think you are reading my post, and if you do, you are deliberately refusing to understand them .
These are facts:
1. Ur thought/ thinking process and resultant behavior/action is being affected by the physical world.
2. Ur thought/thinking process and resultant behavior/action can also be affected by an EXTERNAL spiritual force eg, the spirit forces.
Only those two things play a role in what we are. Its what differenciates and govern us , not our spirits/lifeforce. Our spirits are the same, and same with the animals.

Like I said before, if you feel or do something and what you felt or did did not come as a result of ur brain or physical body function, then its from an external spiritual source,but only you can explain such phenomenom, cus only you felt it and can explain it as you are the only witness to the effect of such force on ur body.

On the lady issue. You met(physical seeing) a lady who LovePeddler heavy makeup , you dnt like heavy makeup(processed thought due to ur physicaly knowing what makeup is and what it represents), so you are annoyed and could not not look at her face (physical brain reaction). The moment she agreed(her physical reaction to the physical knowledge you gave her) to what you thought was right, ur reaction and feeling changed. Due to ur convictions about God (knowledge accumulated in ur brain through time), ur joy (physical body reaction to an event) was so much affected that you can't explain it.
You attribute your feeling to how God felt cus u have (as I have been thought physicaly) that God is always happy and joyful when a sinner repents.

On the issue of the edo language, only you know the truth on what you said , but ur statements raised the following question.
1. Are you saying God used you in healing ur friends father?

Why would God make you speak edo language that you dnt know well, over a man you dnt know was about to die,probably you dnt know at all, for reasons you dnt understand, just because he wants to heal that man?

Would that man have died if you did not pray?

Can you relate this experience with any healing experience found in the bible ?

Can you relate your other experiences to any event in the bible?

I dnt understand what you really mean by carnal, but I know you dnt know me, have not seen me before, and thus you can't determine my level of spirituality.

I'm happy that you agreed and know that we don't need anything supernatural to happen before we believe in God.

I will not go into ur other statements as I feel they are directed at ur other members, but I make this statement

Jesus told us , " this means evalasting life , there taking in the knowledge of you, the only true God and of The one you sent jesus Christ. And the bible helps us to understand that it is the inspired word of God , completely equiped for us to know God (doing Gods will) which is enough for evalasting life .
Any personal experience contrary to what the bible teaches or over emphases of experience will not be accepted by me. If I want the holy spirit to have an effect on me , I would love it to be expreseed by me in its fruits such as love(not for only converts but for people with heavy makeups too) peace, long suffering , kindness , humility , mercy etc . If I can develop myself with the scriptures to be able to express these things, dnt think anyone can say I dnt have the holy spirit in me .

Lastly please endeavor to answer the issues(questions) I raised in this post and in my previous post such as
1. What God meant when he told adam " from dust you are ".
2. Can man have an immortal soul while on earth because he serves God?
If yes, does it mean that those who dnt serve God dnt have an immortal soul?
3 . Where is adam and Abel now . ?

Ubenedictus:
will you also say it is useless to keep easter becos easter doesn't fall on the 14th of nisan every year?

Before I answer you, please are you saying ur Easter date does not align or fall in line with Nissan 14?

Well I guess I'm not going to get answers to the questions I asked.
On the issue of Jews/isrealites rejecting jesus and what he stood for, we need to look at what jesus came to do and what the Jews where expecting .

During the time of moses, moses led them to successful military campaigns , likewise his successor, and that enabled them to establish an independent nation . Prior to moses death, the God they worshiped told them that he will send to them someone similar to moses. They will surely be expecting that person to be a leader, someone who could stand up to the oppresive foreign leaders of their day just as moses helped them against the mighty pharaoh and the Egyptian armies , the amorites etc.
Such expectation was hightened when prophecies where made as to this mesiah coming from a kingly line. Remember the isrealites requested for a king because of the troubles they are having with neighbouring countries and those kings became a rallying point .

They still had those same expectations when jesus came. Imagine there condition, they where being ruled by succesive foreign countries for hundreds of years and generation after generation and where mostly second class citezens in their own land . Even the local King herod was not even jewish.

Then came the messiah and there expectations where heightened, they welcomed him as their king, to release them from their bondage, high tax, inability to fully do things their own way. Only for jesus to tell them that that is not what he came for, that he won't fight, he won't lead an army, that if them slap you right cheek, turn ur left to them .

The religious and political leaders who did not like jesus anyway cus he is not one of them and does not support their ways siezed these as an opportunity to paint jesus in a bad way and safeguard their positions.
They(the isrealites and Jews) said (and are still saying )he is not the messiah cus he did not fufill their own understanding of the prophesies as they where expecting a strongman from the elite class to liberate them from foreign rule .

So dnt expect a present dat jewish man in Judaism to agree that jesus is the messiah

They have payed the price in so many ways since then
1. There temple was destroyed
2. They lost there identity as a nation (most Jews are not really abrahams Descendants today)
3. They still dnt have an earthly king
4. They have been rejected by their God.

Jesus spoke with parables mainly because he knew that the Jews where not ready to understand what he had to tell them.

@ Hiswordxray
Sir, ill still say you are wrong, soul is soul, whether its spiritualy alive or spiritualy dead.it is not divided in any form (no where is that explicitly stated).
I said unless the soul(a living flesh) is affected by an external spirit force , eg the holy spirit, our thoughts , happiness, sadness, envy , etc
is otherwise being totally governed by our physical body.
*God speaks to me through the scriptures (his word) and I get to know it by physicaly reading and physicaly hearing about it. I take in this knowledge, process it and believe what it says . Most people who heard Gods words in the scriptures heard it physicaly with their ears. I dnt (unlike others) need a spirit to come first prove to me that what is in the scriptures is right. I dnt need to personaly receive a revelation to believe in God as the scriptures is
inspired of God and completely equipped for every good works, enough for me to have faith,believe in it and thus gain Evalasting life.
*if you feel anything not from physical source, its either its from an external spirit force or you mind playing Games with you.
if you bust into laughter when nothing is funny , then its Ur memory (info physicaly stored in ur brain ) coupled with the right conditions and release of the right hormones and enzymes that caused it.
* at least you physicaly met them, you did not immediately love those that did not exist or those you never heard about.
God loves every human that seeks to serve him . I wish you can explain more on the supernatural way.
* unless an external spirit is affecting ur
physical body(soul) , then its ur brain synapes and hormones that are at work.
Even physical drugs can make you feel joy .
I dnt know or deny the kind of joy u feel, only you feel it and know its source .
*I too have felt Gods love for me , for people around me, for humankind, but it came from physical knowledge and experience and not from any spiritual soul.
* all involve something physical , either
an external spirit operating on ur physical body or external physical phenomenon affecting ur physical body.
Yes our emotions(physical action or reaction) can be influenced by both external spiritual and physical forces.


Concerning adam , God said let us create man in our Image, thus adam (man ) was created from dust . Adam (man became living when he
gave adam(man ) the breathe of life. Adams
life is subjected to the one who gave him and can only be sustained by that one.
God, who created adam and knew how he
created him told adam "from dust you are" .
God did not not say "adam was dust" to create any impression that he became dust after lossing his spiritual closeness to God, but God told adam what he really is, when he was created and serving God .

man cannot gain a spirit body unless he
dies.

Can man have an immortal soul while on
earth because he serves God?

If yes, does it mean that those who dnt
serve God dnt have an immortal soul?

Hiswordxray:
I'm sorry I didn't explain myself well.
What I'm saying is that the soul is partly spiritual and partly natural.
Yes our emotions can be altered by physical things but it can also be altered by spiritual things. I'm sorry I missed things up in my explanation.
(1)When your hear God speak and receive revelation from God, did you hear it with your physical ear or in your spirit?
I don't know of you but I have known things in my spirit.
(2)I have felt things that is not affected by anything physical. I have seen myself get excited and burst into laughter when nothing is funny.
(3)I have felt overwhelming love for people I just meet the first time - I felt God's love for people in such supernatural way.
(4)I have felt sudden joy that I could hardly control, a kind the Bible calls "joy unspeakable".
(5)I have felt God's love for me in a way that it almost melt me.
6)All these emotions didn't involved anything physical but I felt them. And I knew things supernaturally that I later find to be accurate.
So yes our emotions can be influence by both spiritual and physical things.

Concerning Adam, God called him dust or flesh after he die spiritually. Jesus explained that being born again is when the Holy spirit gives birth to our spirit (John 3:6). When man died spiritually he became flesh (dust) but when we were born again we became spirit clothed with a flesh. The Holy Spirit gave birth to our spirit and our spirit is immortal. Therefore the part of our soul connected to our spirit is immortal.

Sir, ill still say you are wrong, soul is soul, whether its spiritualy alive or spiritualy dead.it is not divided in any form (no where is that explicitly stated).
I said unless the soul is affected by an external spirit force , eg the holy spirit, our thoughts , happiness, sadness, envy , etc is being totally governed by our physical body.

(1) God speaks to me through the scriptures (his word) and I get to know it by physicaly reading and physicaly hearing about it. I take in this knowledge, process it and believe what it says . Most people who heard Gods words in the scriptures heard it physicaly with their ears. I dnt (unlike others) need a spirit to come first prove to me that what is in the scriptures is right.
I dnt need to personaly receive a revelation to believe in God as the scriptures is inspired of God and completely equipped for every good works, enough for me to have faith,believe in it and thus gain Evalasting life.

(2)if you feel anything not from physical source, its either its from an external spirit force or you mind playing Games with you.

if you bust into laughter when nothing is funny , then its Ur memory (info physicaly stored in ur brain ) coupled with the right conditions and release of the right hormones and enzymes that caused it.

(3) at least you physicaly met them, you did not immediately love those that did not exist or those you never heard about.
God loves every human that seeks to serve him . I wish you can explain more on the supernatural way.

(4) unless an external spirit is affecting ur physical body(soul) , then its ur brain synapes and hormones that are at work.
Even physical drugs can make you feel joy .
I dnt know or deny the kind of joy u feel, only you feel it and know its source .

(5)I too have felt Gods love for me , for people around me, for humankind, but it came from physical knowledge and experience and not from any spiritual soul.

(6) all involve something physical , either an external spirit operating on ur physical body or external physical phenomenon affecting ur physical body.
Yes ur emotions(physical action or reaction) can be influenced by both external spiritual and physical forces.

Concerning adam , God said let us create man in our
Image, thus adam (man ) was created from dust . Adam (man became living when he gave adam(man ) the breathe of life. Adams life is subjected to the one who gave him and can only be sustained by that one.
God, who crested adam and knew how he created him told adam "from dust you are" . God did not not say "adam was dust" to create an impression that he became dust after lossing his spiritual closeness to God, but God told adam what he really is, when he was created and serving God .

man cannot gain a spirit body unless he dies.

Can man have an immortal soul while on earth because he serves God?

If yes, does it mean that those who dnt serve God dnt have an immortal soul?

sonmvayina:
If you knew anything about the Jewish religion, you would also know that Jesus has nothing to do with the God of the Hebrews nor Judaism. You have to understand how the religion of Christianity was put together as well. Am I stating that Marduk is the God of the Israelites? Hmmm... Well let's see... Yes! Because the other Gods in the surrounding Areas were of a family of the Anunnaki Gods. I think what you are forgetting here is the dates that these things were written. These things were written while they were in captivity. They didn't have monotheism with Abraham, Because they didn't take upon worshipping only one God until after the Exile. The Hebrews were said to have continually worshipped all of the other gods. So that is not monotheism. Abraham would have been a henotheist, not a monotheist. That came out with the Jews after captivity. They got their writings from the ancient Babylonian writings, when they were sent to Babylon by the Lugal Dimmer An Ki A, the king of all the Gods. There are many instances in the ancient tales that the Biblical lore was taken from. I'm not trying to proselytize anyone like the preachers. I am not a preacher. I teach Comparative religions, and compare writings from before and during certain events.

Are you saying that all those prophesies in the old testament about jesus (also found in Judaism religious scriptures are wrong?

Are you saying that jesus and his disciples never refered to the God of the Jews(in this case isrealites) during their time on earth?

How was the religion of Christianity put together?

What where written are the dates at which these things where written to know if it I'd written in captivity or not?

If they did not worship the God of abraham, why did they then follow the God of abraham into the wilderness.?

Abraham believed (as the bible) that there are many Gods . Anything can be ur zgod as long as you worship it. But abraham believed that the God he worships is the only supreme /almighty God. That there is no other god equal to his God. If that is henptheism or monotheism , you and the scorlars that coined the word can decide.

Hiswordxray:
The Hebrew word for soul literally mean "living being". This word is used for both animals and human being. But the word is used in the Bible in two way:
1) Outward living being (the body or the flesh)
2) Inward living being (which is the spiritual embodiment of the heart and the mind). This is not the spirit but it is something spiritual that only humans have and it controls our emotions and the way we think. It is were all our decisions are made that is why God will judge the soul and put it in Hell if it's evil.

The problem with you J.W is that you don't believe in spirit. The soul is different from the spirit (Heb 4:12). Yes the spirit is the breath of God but there is also another spirit called the spirit of man (Pro 20:27).
So the soul as a spiritual aspect which is immortal and it also have a fleshly aspect which is mortal because the soul is the connection of the spirit and body.

The soul is partly spirit and partly flesh.

One thing I know about man is that , apart from an external spiritual influence, all ur thoughts and thinking process are governed by what you have seen with your physical eyes, heard with ur physical ears, felt with your physical body and smelled with ur physical nose .
They are also governed by the capacity or ability of ur physical body to absorb and retain the Information giving ( example is the difference between a scholar and a dunce)
Our emotions are also governed by our physical body and can also be altered by physical things .
You can be happy, sad, angry, hopeful and have faith by what you physicaly see , hear, learn, feel, touch , all of which are physical.

If you say its the inward soul(partly spirit)which is not biblical anyways , that control our emotions , then you are wrong.

If you go to Aro or yaba left, you will see where physical components and methods are used to alter the emotions, thought process and attitude of man . A single physical drug, when administered to ur physical body , can make you mad, insane, see ilussions, dream, believe in things u are normaly not supposd to blieve in. Like wise a single physical drug can make you think better and reason better.

This is why I strongly believe the bible when it said that God created adam(man) from the physical dust (just like animals), god blew into his nostrils the breathe of life/spirit/life force (just like animals )and that man(adam) became a living soul(became, not having a soul)

That man is dust , not a spirit soul is emphasized when God passed judgement on adam after he sinned. God told him what he is , saying : from dust you are(not spirit you are)and dust you return to(same eventuality with animals) .

That's why when man dies(when that breathe/spark/lifeforce leaves his physical body due to his body innability to sustain or retain it) his thoughts , ambition,goals beliefs, hate, love , hope , do perish with him cus those things are governed and retained by that physical body(brain) which is now no longer functional .
So I dnt believe the soul is in 2 parts

Ubenedictus:
i already told him this but he decided to be deaf.

And I've already explained that it is useless to keep the date. The calendar are not accurate ,they are not the same, they are not equal, so the dates should change like its done for ur Easter celebrations .

twosquare:
although there is nothing like immortality of the soul, the soul can be killed by God(literal destruction now)...but the scriptures u quoted is "dead body" not "dead soul". This is an ordinance meant for Nazirites; that they shouldn't come near any dead body.

A soul can be rendered "dead" while still living...any soul that can no longer respond to YHWH is dead and it isn't a one day journey for the soul to attain a state of death. This type of death can be perpetrated by a spirit(satan) but the soul can literally be destroyed by God. When u hear "every living soul should praise God"...it is not those who have breathe in them but whose soul can respond to the will of YHWH. By obedience, they have acquired LIfe and they are considered "living" but some souls are dead, even though they have breathe in their body. Such souls are gone.

But about the immortality of souls, no soul is immortal...immortality is the ability of not dying. Immortality can't respond to death and that's what God lives by, that's His realm. Fear Him who can destroy both the soul and body in hell.(Matt 10:28). The soul can be destroyed. He who can destroy spirits, soul is a piece of cake.

What is soul ?

Been asking, what's the gain one recieves when his thread is on front page. Money dey there?

Bidam:
I guess you couldn't answer my question, hence you resort to snide remarks. Your feelings is irrelevant concerning my eternal redemption. Thanks for your response though.

Haba sir!, u ask me question, I answer you based on ur explanation , you are now saying you guess I could not answer your question. If my answers are not what you are expecting , let me know o! . Which one be snide remarks again sir, I based my answers on what I feel you re trying to know . If I'm wrong pls let me know

The "you " in my answer is not refering to you as a person o ! , what I'm trying to say is that "someone/anyhuman must be dead"

Bidam:
Opposite of eternal life is eternal condemnation. spiritual death is eternal separation from God.

Ok, since the opposite of eternal life is eternal condemnation , then eternal condemnation is death. I feel you must be dead with no hope of resurrection to have eternal seperation from God .

Bidam:
What about eternal condemnation? Do sinners die spiritually?

Pls explain what you mean by "eternal condemnation" and "die spiritually".

You can't be said to have received eternal life when you are still ageing with a very High prospect of dying .
You can't have eternal life without serving God to the end. Either you die or jesus comes .

Eternal life is a gift from God to his faithful servants who serve God to the end. They will be restored back to the adamic state before he sinned and thus fufill Gods words which cannot come back without fufillment"multiply and spread and have in subjection all the things on the earth.

Death is the wages of sin , u pay nothing more after you die,but you re rewarded with eternal life if you take in knowledge of the true God jehovah and the one he sent to redeem us , jesus Christ.

emotional:
That of Paul and some Christians not getting sick got my ribs cracking,Una no go take laugh kill person. Thou you are right cos for same reason 'sun only shines on some Christians' and too much cold in Saudi Arabia while sun in Israel and rain in Istanbul.

Was just laughing when I read that part, christians hardly get sick. I believe they have not payed a visit to a government hospital. How come healing crusades are growing by the day

What is hell?

torchwave:
The fact is every individual must make a choice where to spend eternity. The reasons we give are just a process to the finished product - choice.

The problem with man is that he expects God to think like him; he expects God to tailor His actions to suit his thinking.

Many say that God will never condemn His creation to eternal fires because He is a loving God. True, He is a loving God.


However, God is also a CONSUMING FIRE. I wonder why people continually harp on just one quality about God and turn a blind eye to His other qualities which are as equally important in having an understanding of His nature.

God is also a righteous Judge. He is a Lamb as well as a mighty Lion. He is a friend to those who love Him and an enemy to those who hate Him.

It is better to serve God out of fear and make heaven than be rebellious and self-willed like Lucifer and spend eternity in hell.


If you must know, I'm glad to be among the millions who love and serve God because they've seen and tasted His goodness, because their lives would be empty without Him. There is no fear in love. When you know how much God loves you, all you'll want to do is love Him till the end of your life, not question Him for what you don't understand.

God is a lamb!? Pls explain further

Call ur friend, sit him down and discuss the issue using the bible.

In ur discussion, try and find answers to the following questions
What is hell in the scriptures?.
Why do people go to hell.?
What kind of people go to hell?.
Is hell fire same as hell.?
What happens to us when we die?
Where are those that died before us e.g adam ?
Why do we die?
What is death ?

Sphexish, very interesting word!

To me , in the past 6 years the following has increased.:
1. Cases of curuption that are swept under the capet e.g the malabu case, the 20b$ case, the Stella issue, the employment issue of moro , the 10b jet issue, the nnpc issue, the subsidy issues, the chinok girls issue.
2. Security issues
3. Fuel pump price
4. Electricity tariff
5. Illegal binkering issues
6. Foreign exchange issues

eleven:
At OP, you are very correct. The major challenge Jonathan had was effective communication of his strategies to the public.

One reason why some Nigerians are not happy with him. I keep telling people he is the best president we have as at today, he has achieved more than his predecessors within a short time in spite of the security challenges.

Opposition parties don't really have anything to offer at Federal level, they are only riding on the back of his ineffective communication to deceive the masses. So far they almost succeeded to some extend in turning the people against a good man with their more efficient communication skills and the help of our very lazy & sensational media, luckily for him the tides are slowly changing. People are beginning to think, compare and ask questions across different social media platforms.

For some people working/worked in corporate environments, they now understand that the man is running this country the way a good company should be run. Build systems, review, correct & simplify processes and procedures using IT. Just like in safety and health, fighting corruption effectively is same strategy "Prevention is always better than cure"

Another challenge are his media handlers, if he wins, would seriously advise him to change the whole team, they contributed to the challenges he is currently facing. They do not communicate his visions properly to the masses instead they allowed themselves to be dragged down to the opposition's turf.

Jonathan as a gentleman should have no business with a man like Doyin Okupe, he needs more level headed media assistants that can effectively communicate his visions without insults/twit fights, professional assistants that understands the importance of presidential image management.

The awareness of his good works needs to be communicated more, unfortunately a 35mins opportunity to improve this awareness was abused by his minister of state for works on Channels TV some hours ago. The man was busy discussing/abusing Buhari instead of using that opportunity to let the world know what this good president has done and is doing. At times I think these guys are deliberately sabotaging Jonathan's efforts. Wasted hands.

But still President Jonathan will triumph again by HIS grace. Amen.

You are partly correct, on some points, I do agree with you.

Jona can be a good man, but the country need a good leader, not a good man.
1.Jona took on bad advisors and assistants
2.jona himself said he had been given bad advise.
3. He has up till now done nothing about The bad advisors or bad advises (a plus to those who say he is clueless)
Example of the bad avisors is okupe and that minister of state( that man is useless).
Also we have moro and wike, with jet hugging dezzy . I dnt know most of the former ministers and I never hear any of their works . The working sports minister was sacked and things nosedived since then in sports. The only minister I have seen working fantastic is the agric minister and he is Jonas saving grace .
4. Jona himself has not blown his own trumpet as mostimes he does not tell us what he has done in 6 years (if you know pls tell us ). I dnt want "I'm repairing, I'm about to " "we have started work" story.

Those working in cooperate environment are still using generators at work and at home. With all the promises he made for over 6 years , light never improve pass 4,500mw.
They still have the normal bottlenecks in doing bussiness.

They now have the issues the issues of foreign exchange to deal with.
Even foreign firms are sceptical.

They still have to deal with unemployable graduates six years on and probably for the next ten years.

********
Why I personaly dnt like jona to be the president

1. He "in his body language" supports curuption , hubbobbing with the abachas and alamase.

2.he has refused to that far reaching , observable actions on security, both localy and nationaly.

3.personaly to me, we are still in the dark ages when it comes to the railway system.
Other african countries are already using better trains and we are still buying old stocks and repainting them .
Heard he signed a contract with the chinees to built rail and train for us for 13b for 30 years (if you be manager, can you give out such a contract).

4. He had made statements that I view as embarassing to the office . For example, the "MEND targeting me" statement. When he had earlier said something different. The fight agaist curruption with the use of technology" statement. The "Motor park tout" statement, when you know you go still go beg am for house. The "curruption is ordinary stealing" statement. The "I dnt give a damn" statement. The ceasefire blunder.