₦airaland Forum

Jesus is the creator
Father is creator
Is jesus the father ? No
Then how are they both creators, who created what.?

The answers where shown to you, you still refuse

Jesus is God
Jesus is almighty God
How can the almighty God have a God?
How can humans be brothers to the almighty God ?

The truth has been explained to you, u refuse.

Jesus is equal to the father.
But jesus has always been doing his fathers will?
Even to the point of death and pain, he did what his father told him to do ?

Jesus is the lamb
Father can not be the lamb

Jesus is the High priest
High priest for who, himself?

Jesus was told to sit at the right hand of God, does that denote equality ?

Jesus died , just as adam died! Abi na ojoro God do to redeem mankind.


Most importantly, the scriptures was explicit on who the one true God , who we should give exclusive devotion , who we should worship is. He is the father!

[quote author=tola9ja post=29195754][/quote]Dnt you have the authentic Torah and gospel again? , thought that was where you posted those scriptures from?
Or are they not authentic anymore?
Are you not supposed to help people serve allah again? Pls tell us where the authentic gospel us so that we can become muslims, abi the gospel that god gave jesus done lost?

Let's discuss here in the open , so that others can learn from our discussion

OLAADEGBU:
Questions and Answers.

Sir, explain the verses I quoted to me to prove me wrong .

johnw74:
When the Word became flesh, He became under the Father which is easy to understand, as in the OP verses.
But He didn't stop being God, how could God stop being God?

The following scriptures make it plain that Jesus is God.


Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”


****************************************************


Hebrews 2:17,18 - “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
Hebrews 4:15,16 - “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
1 Peter 2:24 - “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.”

He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you.
John 15:13 - “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.”
Romans 5:8 - “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Would love to discuss all the scriptures u posted , only if you can tell us ur answer to question 2 and 4.

craziebone:
There are questions i would like to ask

why build a new city and what happened to the likes of VI, Ikyi, Lekki, Ikeja and Surulere that they cannot be used as financial hub?

Even if a new city is needed, why don't we clear all the shanties at Iyana Ipaja, Mushin, Ajegunle, Ayobo etc and compensate the locals there so we can build the new city instead of spending a lot of money to reclaim land from water and continue to congest a lagos island that is already congested?

What makes the new city so attractive to private investors that they are willing to spend that much money in the area?

How do they hope to make profit on their investment?

The simple answer is location .
Location plays an important role in the value of land space and what the space can be used for .
VI, ikoyi, lekki , ikeja, surulere have their own CBDs , not fully developed/planned , hard to replan due to existing structures and other topographical features. Then there is also transportation issues.

Iyana ipaja, ayobo and others are pheripheries of the business areas , they can't be the economic hub . They have population issues , social issues that will limit its attractiveness to the real money spenders.

Lagos is not congested, but rather being expanded.

A new , well planned city is attractive cus its a new city and its well planned .

How do they make their money? , nearly all the available plots have already been bought Bro, even before its been sandfilled

[quote author=tola9ja post=29153848][/quote]In the authentic scriptures, the one that God gave the isrealites , the unadulterated one, did moses, the prophet of allah order the killings?

I was not reffering to the prophecy when you said "yes", that the scriptures u quoted on sword issues where authentic. Read the question I asked you well well. I think you are now beginning to realise ur grave mistake and trying to put up mitigating factors, yes the pain on the leg wound is now getting to the brain , but u have not dropped the gun yet.

johnw74:
You say you don't know what authority means, and yet you use the word yourself.




Do you know the answer to those two questions?
will you tell us?
That would save me time searching for the verses.

I'm not a scholar in English language , so sometimes I tend to misunderstand some sentences, so I do appologise , I also yet to ask about words used in sentence so as to understand the person using the words better.
When the word "could" is attached to a statement, I tend to believe the person who used the word is not sure of the facts attached to the word. If I'm wrong , pls correct me.

On the issue of the word authority, I said I dnt understand the whole sentence, not the word authority.

Ill wait till you tell me ur view on questions 2 and 4. The questions came about due to a need to better understand ur beliefs.

OLAADEGBU:
As you might have noticed I'm not a man of many words. I am not here to so much give my own opinion except to be illuminated by the Word of God.

"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (2 Kings 2:11).

This was a unique event in history, and was altogether miraculous. Enoch, who had served as God’s prophet in a time of deep apostasy, had likewise been taken into heaven just as Enoch was taken to the "third heaven," where God’s throne is located without dying, as I had said earlier. It has been assumed that Elijah and Enoch have both been supernaturally preserved alive in heaven ever since that time in their natural bodies.

When the Lord Jesus returns at the rapture, both dead and living believers will be translated into His presence, their bodies being supernaturally changed into immortal bodies. If Elijah and Enoch are presently in natural bodies, it is possible that they will also return at this time to serve as His "two witnesses" on the earth during the 1260 days of great plagues on the earth that will quickly follow Jesus’ return. They will continue to be preserved alive to finish their unfinished testimony to both Israel and the Gentile world during that period. Finally, they will be slain and then they also will be raptured into heaven with immortalized bodies.

You are delibrately doing the same thing again, refusing to discuss points giving while trying to express ur view that you can't defend with the scriptures.

I've shown you several points you refuse to acknowledge , disprove or comment on such as:

I've shown you that that no where in the bible was enoch said to go to any third heaven , talk less of the presence of God.

I've shown you that paul said enoch died. All those that had faith died.

I've shown you that enoch did not receive the promise, but only saw it in a distant future and had faith in its fulfillment

I've shown you that elijah did not go to the dwelling place of God. Anytime heaven is used in the scriptures, it does not always mean the dwelling place of God.

I've show you elijah's action on earth several years after the chariot incident.

I've show you that in mentioning the third heaven, paul does not ascribe it to Gods dwelling place, why then do u do otherwise

I've shown you where jesus said no one has ascended to heaven (the dwelling place of god) except jesus that descended. Are u saying that jesus is lying?

I've shown you that jesus was the first resurrected person to ascend to heaven before others follow.

I've shown you man cannot ascend to heaven except through jesus ransom sacrifice.

I've asked you to explain the scriptures I quoted just as I explained yours.

I've asked you if jesus is lying when he said no one has ascended into heaven ?

I've asked you that if faithful servants of God can attain imortality apart from jesus sacrifice, why then did jesus have to die, would it not have been better to use that method for us. ?

Now I ask you, with your knowledge of the scriptures on what paul said about the bodies that one can use to enter heaven, can our natural bodies enter heaven?

Now u say they are going to come back and go to heaven several to heaven several times, in natural bodies(?) can u prove it from the scriptures?

Even angel gabriel did not travel that much, and he had serious and recorded messages to bring to earth .

cao:
And finally...**drumroll** ...Quantum of Solace. Chei, I've to hear stupid theme by Alicia Keys & Jack White. **plays Chris Cornell's You Know My Name (Casino Royale's theme song) & Garbage's The World is Not Enough one last time** Now, I'm ready for that travesty of a song...maybe it won't be as bad as I remember it?

My best bond films are "spy who loved me and "casino royal " .
Best songs (or is it sound track ) for a bond film is "sky fall" and "man with the golden gun " ( I mean the song they sang when that midget was locked up)

johnw74:
Nothing can be gained from a discussion with you when you keep misquoting me.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, it just that word "could" can be understood as "not sure" when trying to understand ur statement.
Sir , what of question 2 and 4

Check post 51, that is where u said the scriptures you posted are from God

OLAADEGBU:
All died by faith except for Enoch who did not see death.

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5)

The bolded proves that Enoch was raptured to heaven, and experience that true Christians will partake of at the first phase of the second coming of the Lord.



"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord"(1 Thess. 4:16-17).

If the rapture can happen with the living saints what stops it from happening to Enoch and Elijah? When our Lord Jesus Christ returns, both the dead and living believers will be translated into His presence, their bodies being supernaturally changed into immortal bodies (1 Thess. 4:16-17; 1 Cor.15:51-54; Phil.3:20-21). Read the link below for more on this.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Enoch-Elijah.html

Sir, I can now see why some say they dnt Iike or want to discuss with you, as you dnt discuss with people but tend to dish out ur own opinion without explaining/looking into on what the other person says. When u post ur beliefs and back them up with with bible statements, others look at what you said in relation to the scriptures you quoted and come back to explain to you their understanding of what you said, the scriptures u quoted, and also add other scriptures to prove to you that ur understanding is wrong.
That is exactly what I did, I looked up the scriptures u posted, explained where u where wrong , then added other scriptures to buttress my point . But u dnt do that , you wave/ dismiss / put aside/refuse to explain ur understanding of scriptural evidence shown to you that you dnt like or can't explain and hold on tightly to verses that you think explain ur point.
This method does not encourage discussion.

I gave you numerous evidences and scriptures and u did not explain any.

Ill try one more time to explain to you from the scriptures , citing the scriptures u quoted and more from me to explain to you that enoch and elijah did not go to heaven .
Pls if you want to argue my points, pls explain first of all ur understanding of the scriptures i sited .


Enoch did not go to heaven.
To start my explanation , let's first look at the definition of this two words that might have caused some confusion. The definition of the words helps in the understand of what the scripture is saying.

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism.
(death is being described as an act, a process. Unless otherwise assisted, that process is always very unpleasant, mostly painful)

Die/ died: to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital functions; become dead.

(die/died is the end result of the process of death)

So now what did not happen to enoch.

Genesis 5:24:
King James Bible
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Enoch walked with God; then he was not there because God took him.
NET Bible
Enoch walked with God, and then he disappeared because God took him away.

Here the verse did not state where God
took him, how God took him and it what
form God took him .so I wonder why you use that verse to say God took him to heaven .

Why was he taken away?.

The book of genesis indicate that the corruption introduced by Satan in the garden of Eden quickly led to the spread of wickedness among Adam’s descendants. In such a world, Enoch was a prophet of Jehovah whose powerful inspired words resonate even today. ( Jude 14, 15) we can be sure that even in Enoch’s day, there were many “ungodly sinners” who heard Enoch’s prophecy with annoyance. How loving that God took the prophet out of their reach

What happened to him?
heb 11:5
:By faith E′noch was transferred so as not to see death, and he was nowhere to be found because God had transferred him; for before he was transferred he received the witness that he had pleased God well.

Like in the book of genesis, Here again it was not stated where enoch went to , talk less of stating the third heaven .

A better understanding of what might
have happened to enoch can be analyzed in verse 13 of Hebrews chapter 11 . The verse made mention of the summary of what happened to all those who had faith in God, who had been mentioned earlier in the chapter.

King James Bible
These ALL died in faith, NOT having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
These all died in faith without having received the promises, but they saw them from a distance, greeted them, and confessed that they were foreigners and temporary residents on the earth.

International Standard Version
All these people died having faith. They did not receive the things that were promised, yet they saw them in the distant FUTURE and welcomed them, acknowledging that they were strangers
and foreigners on earth.

Here we can deduce some facts
1. All those that paul mentioned(enoch inclusive) died. Enoch was not excluded in these verse .
2. Enoch did not receive the promise
( meaning enoch did not ascend to
heaven ) but saw it in a distant future!, enoch was not ressurected .
Enoch did not go to heaven, not before jesus ascention anyway.
Jesus was the first one to ascend to heaven. ( John 3:13; Hebrews 6:19, 20) Enoch’s being
“transferred so as not to see death” may mean that God put him in a prophetic trance and then terminated his life (died)while he was in that state. Under such circumstances, Enoch did not suffer, or “see death,” at the hands of his enemies.(he did not go through the act or process of death )

Jesus plainly stated: “No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven,
the Son of man.” Jesus was the “forerunner”
of all who ascend to heaven.— John 3:13; Hebrews 6:19, 20..


Enoch lived 365 years—not nearly as long as most of his contemporaries. But the important thing for lovers of Jehovah is that they serve him faithfully to the end of their days. We know that Enoch did that because “before his transference he had the witness that he had pleased God well.” The Scriptures do not disclose how Jehovah communicated this to Enoch. Nevertheless, before Enoch died, he was given assurance of God’s approval, and we can be certain that Jehovah will remember him in the resurrection.(a future event/promise



Did elijah go to the dwelling place of God.?

2 Kings 2:11
King James Bible
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

By the end of my explanation we will be able to know if elijah did go to Gods dwelling place.
At 2 Kings 2:11, 12 the prophet Elijah is
described as “ascending in the windstorm to the heavens.” The heavens here referred to are the
atmospheric heavens in which windstorms occur, not the spiritual heavens of God’s
presence. Elijah did not die(undergo any transition ) at the time of such ascension, but he continued to live for a number of years after his heavenly transportation away from his successor Elisha.
A number of years after his ascension in the windstorm Elijah is still alive and active as a prophet, this time to the king of Judah. Because of the wicked course taken by King Jehoram of Judah, Elijah writes him a letter expressing Jehovah’s condemnation, which is fulfilled shortly thereafter.

2Ch 21:12-15;
Eventually a written message came to
him from E·li′jah the prophet, saying.............

Nor did Elijah upon death ascend to the spiritual heavens, since Jesus, while on earth, clearly stated that “no man has ascended into heaven (the dwelling place of God)
Joh 3:13;
.
King James 2000 Bible
And no man has ascended up to heaven,
but he that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man who is in heaven.

At Pentecost, Peter likewise said ofDavid that
he “did not ascend to theheavens.” ( Acts 2:34)

King James Bible
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my righthand.

In reality, there is nothing in the Scriptures to show that a heavenly hope was held out to God’s servants prior to the coming of Christ Jesus.(why would jesus need to come and die for our sins when we already could go to heaven and have evalasting life?)
Such hope first appears in Jesus’ expressions to his disciples ( Mt 19:21, 23-28; Lu 12:32; Joh
14:2, 3) and was fully comprehended by them only after Pentecost of 33 C.E.—Ac 1:6-8; 2:1-4, 29-36; Ro 8:16, 17.
The Scriptures show that Christ Jesus was the first one to ascend from earth to the heavens of God’s presence.
1Co 15:20;

International Standard Version
But at this moment the Messiah stands risen from the dead, the first one offered in the harvest of those who have died.
(this includes enoch,elijah And the faithfull ones)

Heb 9:24
King James Bible
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
By such ascension and his presentation of his ransom sacrifice there, he ‘opened the way’ for those who would follow.
Those that will go to heaven must bear the image of the heavenly one, ChristJesus, in order to ascend to the heavens of the spirit plane, for “flesh and blood” cannot inherit that heavenly Kingdom.—
1Co 15:42-50..


(1 Thess. 4:16-17; 1 Cor.15:51-54; Phil.3:20-21).

These scriptures helps us to understand the ressurection process of those who will rule with jesus in heaven .here ,unlike in enoch's case, where the ressurected ones are going is mentioned.
Even if these could also happen to enoch and elijah,it did not happen at their death cus because paul said such hope for them whigh they had faith in was far off(in the future), as at enoch's and Elijah's death, the rsmsom sacrifice has not yet Been presented to God in heaven to enable man go to heaven.



So we see, from the bible , the word of
God , that elijah or enoch did not ascend
to the dwelling place God.

[quote author=tola9ja post=29150069][/quote]So did moses, the prophet of Allah tell them to kill those people as mentioned in scriptures u quoted or not?

Remember, u said those verses where authentic and not adulterated

ProphetUdeme:
HEAVEN -Jehovah witnesses do not believe in people going to heaven after they die but rather they said that Jesus says that all the good chosen people will inherit the earth and that no one is going to heaven and heaven belongs only to God.

Now look at what the bible says
2 corinthians 5 vs 1-2. - for we know that if our earthly house is dissolved we have a building of God a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens and we earnestly desiring to be clothed with our house which is from heaven. Now the bible tells us that we will make heaven cos its our eternal home but the Jw disagree with this so pls JMAN05 pls can u explain this verse to the people. Thanks

Pls , can you give us prove that jehovahs witnesses say no one is going to heaven!

@olaadegbu, Still waiting for reply on what I said and scriptures I quoted on elijah and enoch .

johnw74:
Why do you think I'm an authority, I will answer a couple and then you can try and convince others that Jesus is not God. You have failed with me.

1. Jesus is not the same person as the Father, Jesus is the Son. They are the same God.

3. God cannot die and go to hell, but a flesh and blood body can.

Sir, I dnt understand what u meant by the words "why do you think I'm an authority"

What I know is that you said you believe something and on asking questions based on that believe, so as to understand ur believe better.

By the way, what happened to question 2 and 4 ?

Dhulqarnain:
A Team dat packs d bus also reduces Madrid's chances of scorin.
Beta 4 a team to pack d bus and wait 4 a counter dan 2 go all out and get thrashed

Its left for the coach to decide which of his teams Strong point or part to use. Does his team have a strong defence or attack or both.
There is always a likelihood that madrid will score in every match, therefore the coach has to decide if his team will go out and outscore madrid , like in the case of barca, or pack the bus with the hope of limiting madrid goals while praying they score one or two in counter attack or dead balls.

But the problem with parking the bus with madrid is that while madrid have the shooting power, the passing ability(both long and short range) , high dead ball utilization, the physical power and speed to break down a team packing the bus , the team parking the bus is more at a disavantage when attacking madrid . Why?, because in packing the bus, u can only score by dead balls, counter attacks and opponents mistakes.
Madrid are rarely ever jittery, so mistakes is hard, they have some of the best defenders, so mistakes are rare. More importantly they have one of the best coaches in the world.
Madrid have strong and tall defenders, making scoring from dead balls harder.
Madrid players are averagely fast, both in defence and attack, therefore counter attack is almost and impossibility.

I'm not saying it can be done , just showing you how hard it is to beat madrid by parking the bus .
Its better to attack madrid than parking the bus. Most teams that have defeated madrid did so by attacking.

Like mourinho said, its hard to defeat a shark in the champions league sea.

OLAADEGBU:
Question: "What was the star of Bethlehem?"

Sir, the star of Bethlehem is not from God.


What is the star seen after Jesus’ Birth.

The “astrologers from eastern parts,” hence from the neighborhood of Babylon, whose visit to King Herod after the birth of Jesus resulted in the slaughter of all the male infants in Bethlehem, were obviously not servants or
worshipers of the true God. We already know Gods view on astrology and astrologers. ( Mt 2:1-18)

As to the “star” (Gr., a·ster′) seen by them,It is notable that only these pagan astrologers “saw” the star. Their condemned practice of astrology and the adverse results of their visit, placing in
danger the life of the future Messiah, certainly allow for, and even make advisable, the consideration of their having been directed by a source adverse to God’s purposes as relating to the promised Messiah. It is certainly reasonable to ask if the one who “keeps transforming himself into an angel of light,” whose operation is “with every powerful work and lying signs and portents,” who was able to make a serpent
appear to speak, and who was referred to by
Jesus as “a manslayer when he began,”
could not also cause astrologers to ‘see’ a
starlike object that guided them first, not to
Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem, where resided
a mortal enemy of the promised Messiah.—
2Co 11:3, 14; 2Th 2:9; Ge 3:1-4; Joh 8:44.

[quote author=tola9ja post=29125873][/quote]Ill tell u the city I'm in, only if u give me an answer to the question I've been asking you siiince ! ,

1.according to the Koran who is the God of moses and the isrealites.
2.Did the God of moses order the killings u posted?
3. Pls enlighten us on the God of jesus, maybe its different from my understanding.

Pls answer

johnw74:
dolphinheart, I am now certain that Jesus is God, thanks, even though that is not what you wanted.

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross Philippians 2:8.

You are not certain on trinity right?
But you believe trinity that you are not certain on right ?

Pls if you are certain that jesus is God, answer the questions I posted earlier

tola9ja:
is ALLAH god of jesus?

Typical nigerian, now u are afraid to answer my questions.
Cus if you know that if you answer , u wunt even hear the sound of the gun u are pointing on ur intellect.

Let me answer ur question in ur own format

The God of jesus is the God of moses and abraham . The bible calls him jehovah.
Now since the bible is adulterated, I dnt know if that part is true or false, so pls enlighten us more.

Now what does the Koran call the God of jesus, abraham and moses? Abi those names no dey Koran again ? Abi the Moran no mention their God again?

I pray you dnt answer as usual , untill we find how to remove that gun(silly thinking and idealogy) from blowing ur brains out.

johnw74:
I don't know for sure about the trinity doctrine and that is why I haven't been posting on it.

I believe God is one God, and I believe He could be three persons in one God as well.

Can God stop being God? when the Word became Jesus He did not stop being God, but He humbled Himself taking on flesh, no longer being in the form of God, that is why He became lower than the Father and that is why all those verses in the OP are true about, not God, but the Son of God.
Things in Heaven are not the same as things on Earth, I believe Jesus is God and also the son of God when He became flesh, one of us.
He lowered Himself, that is why the Father was greater, for before that they were equal.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Isaiah said Jesus is the Holy Spirit (Counsellor) and Father.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus said the Father, He and the Holy Ghost have the same name.
Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Wow! Interesting!
You believe in what you are not sure about? I mean in trinity? . Cus trinity can be said to be 3 persons in 1 God.

Now pls can u answer the following questions

1. Is jesus the same person as the father?

2. Is jesus of equal authority to the father when he went back to heaven after leaving earth ?

3. God cannot stop being God abi, can God die and go to hell?

4. Jesus, father, holy spirit has same name, pls what is that name.

tola9ja:
LOL did you see the name ALLAH in the bible verse i quoted
Mathew 10:34-35 is that not the man you worshiping speak in that verse is it ALLAH
am tired of you jare

U wiped most of My post away in ur reply so as to try and hide ur folly. Not knowing that others see what you re trying to do.

Is Allah not the God of moses and abraham again?

Are they not allahs prophet?

Did the God of moses and moses not order the killings again?

Is that god not wicked like u said again?

Be careful , u re pointing the gun to ur head, ur fingers are shaking , and its on the trigger!

tola9ja:
dose that are reading will already understand you i give a scriptural evidences you are requesting for a scholar evidence #smh

Let me explain ur folly to you in another form so that you might understand .
Its in a question format that requires a simple yes or no answer.

1. You ascribe the scriptures you quoted to the bible? (yes)

2.you say the bible is adulterated/currupted (yes)

3. U say Gods/allah gave them(Jews and christians) the scriptures which they currupted. (yes)

4. You say the Christian God is wicked and Allah preaches peace and mercy(yes)

5. You say the part you quoted is not the currupt part but the authentic word of the Christian God(yes)

Now is the command for the wicked act was real. (yes)
The wicked act was ordered by the God of abraham, moses, the God who took the isrealite accross the red sea according to the Koran (yes)

Allah is the God of abraham and moses (yes)

Therefore Allah ordered those killing that the isrealites carried out.()
Can you now see how you shot urself in the foot? ( hopefully yes)

vooks:
2. mean, spirit of dolphinheart is not spirit of vooks just as your body is unique to you from mine

3. I told you they are different because God called animals out of the water and earth whereas he put his spirit in man. They may both be spirits but one came from God.

4. God made a body and breathed his spirit in it. This means the body minus the spirit is not man as such and vice versa. Man after death exists as spirit. This is what John saw under the altar. The spirit will be clothed with a glorified,powerful and incorruptible body also called spiritual. Look at Jesus after resurrection and you will get the idea.

This is what I mean when I say man is a spirit housed in a body. Paul and Peter both talk of the body as being a house or container for the man.

2 Peter 1:13-14 (ESV)
I think it right, as long as I am in this body, to stir you up by way of reminder, 14 since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort so that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things.

Here Peter talking of death speaks of putting off the house/tabernacle/body.

[b]2 Corinthians 5:1-10 (ESV) ​
1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.[/b]

Here Paul speaks of the body as a tent. If it is a tent and we are putting it on, Paul is clearly distinguishing between 'we' and the body. I can't possibly put it more plainly.

2. In the footnote I posted the bible says otherwise.

A)Does the spirit have conciousness after it leaves the body?
B)when does this unique spirit enter into a new baby, since u say the spirit is different from that of the parents ?.

3.Sir,how can they be different when the bible and you say thus:
A) God called animals out of water and earth.
B)man/adam was created from earth(dust) and water
C) man and animals are both called souls
D) man have spirit , animals have spirit
E) the spirit in man is same as the spirit in animals.
F) they both have same eventuality.
If any of the aforementioned statement is wrong, let me know.

Pls read the following verses and explain what u understand on it, as ur explanation will help on this discussion.
Psalms 104: 30
Ecclesiastes 3:18-22.

4. Sir, God did not create a body and breathed his spirit into it . The bible says God created Adam/man and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life/spirit/active force. The two are different concepts.
The bible shows that Adam was created first before he became a living soul, that is before he had the breathe of life in him.
This is why God , when passing judgement on Adam , told him what he is,God told adam that he is dust/earth.

Sir , will like to discuss the body being tenth and what John saw under the alter with you, but first pls discuss the questions I posted to u earlier which are:

A)in relation to the second resurrection, if man is spirit, why does he need a spirit body?

B)Remember our discussion is based on the second resurrection. Are they all expecting to be resurrected in spirit bodies too?

C)Do the spiritual bodies need to be created from dust?

D)when man dies, is the spirit conscious after death ?

E)where is mans spirit after death, with God or in hell. ?.


Pls remember, I try to look at the scriptures u cited, I post them and endeavor to give u my own view of the scriptures u posted , before I then go on to explain my own view or points, pls endeavor to do same to my posts .

vooks:
1.

I note what you are saying about Adam. God made a body out of the earth,and ONLY after breathing into it his spirit did the body become animated

Could you please explain to me 2 Cor 12:2,James 2:26.Thank you

2 cor 12: 2 states :
New Living Translation
I was caught up to the third heaven fourteen years ago. Whether I was in my body or out of my body, I don't know--only God knows.

King James Bible
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

( to understand my explanation better, pls read chapter 11 and 12 while having my explanation in view)

That passage comes right after verses in which Paul defended his apostleship. Since the Bible does not speak of any other person who had such an experience and since it is Paul who tells us of it, likely Paul had this vision.
Since he wrote this in about 55 C.E., 14 years earlier would take us back to 41 C.E., in the middle of the “silent years.”
It appears then that Paul (about 41 C.E.) was
privileged to experience a supernatural vision so real that he did not know whether it was in the body or out of the body that he was caught away to “the third heaven.”


That vision doubtless gave Saul unique insight. Was it to equip him as “an apostle to the nations”? ( Romans 11:13)
(remember he was initially not one of jesus disciples and some of the things he thought must have been from the holy spirit in form of visions.)


Third Heaven.
At 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 the apostle Paul describes one who was “caught away . . . to the third heaven” and “into paradise.” some have endeavored to relate Paul’s reference to the third heaven to the early rabbinic view that there were stages of heaven, even a total of “seven heavens,” this view finds no support in the Scriptures.
As we have seen, the heavens are not referred to specifically as if divided into platforms or stages, but, rather, the context must be relied upon to determine whether reference is to the heavens within earth’s atmospheric expanse, the heavens of outer space, the spiritual heavens, or something else. It therefore appears that the reference to “the third heaven” indicates the superlative degree of the rapture in which this vision was seen. Note the way words and expressions are repeated three times at Isaiah 6:3; Ezekiel 21:27; John 21:15-17; Revelation 4:8 , evidently for the purpose of expressing an intensification of the quality or idea.


James 2:26

King James Bible
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Jas. 2:14, 26, RS: “What does it profit, my
brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.”

The spirit is the life force that enables man to perform some functions and also to survive. If that spirit is not in the body, the body is dead, man is dead and will start to turn back to dust , which is where God said he made him from .
A person does not earn salvation by his works. But anyone who has genuine faith will have
works to go with it—works of obedience to the commands of God and Christ, works that demonstrate his faith and love. Without such
works, his faith is dead.
He needs that force in him to be active and enabled to demostrate the faith he has.

(Footnote on spirit/breath/lifeforce in man)
Life-force, or spirit, is impersonal. The Scriptures refer to the ru′ach, or life-force, as being not only in humans but also in animals. ( Ge 6:17; 7:15, 22)
Ecclesiastes 3:18-22 shows that man dies in
the same manner as the beasts, for “they all
have but one spirit [weru′ach], so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast,” that is, as to the life-force common to both.

This being so, it is clear that the “spirit,” or
life-force (ru′ach), as used in this sense is
impersonal, it is not unique to individuals or different in each individual. As an illustration, one might compare it to another invisible force,
electricity, which may be used to make various types of Machines operate—causing stoves to produce heat, fans to produce wind, computers to solve problems, television sets to produce figures, voices and other sounds—yet which electric current never takes on any of the characteristics of the machines in which it functions or is active.
Thus, Psalm 146:3, 4 says that when man’s “spirit [form of ru′ach] goes out, he (man/Adam/dolphinheart) goes back to his ground; in that day his(man/adam/dolphinheart)
thoughts do perish.” The spirit, or life-force, that was active in man’s body cells does not
retain any of the characteristics of those cells, such as the brain cells and their part in the thinking process. If the spirit, or life- force (ru′ach; pneu′ma), were not impersonal, then it would mean that the children of certain Israelite women who were resurrected by the prophets Elijah and Elisha were actually in conscious existence somewhere in the period during which they were dead. So, too, with Lazarus, who was
resurrected some four days after his death.
( 1Ki 17:17-23; 2Ki 4:32-37; Joh 11:38-44) If
such had been the case, it is reasonable that
they would have remembered such conscious existence during that period and upon being resurrected would have described it, told about it. There is nothing to indicate that any of them did so. Hence, the personality of the dead individual is not perpetuated in the life-force, or spirit, that stops functioning in the deceased person’s body cells.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 states that at death the
person’s body returns to the dust, “and the
spirit itself returns to the true God who gave
it.” The person himself was never in heaven
with God; what “returns” to God is therefore
the vital force that enabled the person to live.
In view of the impersonal nature of the
life-force, or spirit, found in man (as also in
the animal creation), it is evident that David’s statement at Psalm 31:5, quoted by Jesus at the time of his death (Lu 23:46),
“Into your hand I entrust my spirit,” meant that God was being called upon to guard, or care for, that one’s life-force. (Compare Ac 7:59.) That there be an actual and literal transmission of some force from this planet to the heavenly presence of God is not necessarily required. Even as the fragrant scent of animal sacrifices was spoken of as being ‘smelled’ by God ( Ge 8:20, 21), whereas such scent undoubtedly remained within earth’s atmosphere, so, too, God could ‘gather in,’ or could accept as
entrusted to him, the spirit or life-force in a
figurative sense, that is, without any literal
transmission of vital force from earth. ( Job
34:14; Lu 23:46) A person’s entrusting his spirit evidently means, then, that he places his hope in God for a future restoration of such life-force to himself through a resurrection.—Compare Nu
16:22; 27:16; Job 12:10; Ps 104:29, 30

vooks:
5. Animals are not spirits

6. Going back to God that gave it does not necessarily mean going to heaven. In any case, if the spirits of men went to heaven, that would be spirits not men! You need to study widely on this and not just pick verses that appear to suit what they fed you with. Has any man ever seen God? Did Isaiah see God? Hope you understand

7. Soul and spirit are used interchangeably. But it could be a third distinct component of man

8. I don't know about going to hell, but that would be his spirit since his body remained in the grave

5. If animals are not spirits, what are they?
Why then do you say man is spirit ? Because the bible helps us to know that man and animals are alike.

6.Sir, my questioned was aimed at showing you that your statement that man is a spirit or the spirit inside man is the man is false.
You have explained it that man is not the spirit in him urself here.
Man is said to go to the grave, his spirit/life force does not follow him to the grave.

7. Soul and spirit are not used interchangeably.
Soul and spirit do not mean the same thing.
The Greek and hebrew words used for soul and spirit in the bible are different and have different meaning .
So I still ask you, what is the soul(that could be distinct third component of man )


8.That is/ could not be his spirit.
Jesus went to hell, the bible says when someone dies his spirit leaves him and his spirit does not follow him to hell.
How can you then atribute man to his spirit when the bible says man went to hell?by the way, what do you understand by hell.?

To be continued.........

OLAADEGBU:
From where did you think Elijah appeared from, hell or heaven?

Sir, discuss what I posted first, explain ur view of the scriptures I posted, just like I explained my view on the scriptures u posted. After then add any remark or question

Wateva it was, it was not from God.

tola9ja:
to be sincere something is wrong with you anyway take these


Acts 26:24Amplified Bible (AMP)

24 And as he thus proceeded with his defense, {tola9ja}Festus called out loudly,{dolphinheart} Paul, you are mad! Your great learning is driving you insane!

You can't answer questions, you can explain queries, you can't decipher explanations.

A typical nigerian wey no wan gree say he no sabi something go wan turn the whole thing to fight and abuse .

U think abusing me will remove peoples eyes from seing the sillyness in your post. You have failed again .

You have even failed more , shown ur low level of intelligence, and inability to understand the things u posted, when you compared urself to festus

johnw74:
I haven't been talking about the trinity as I said before, I have been talking about Jesus being God which is the title of this thread.
Jesus was God - the Word, and when He became man, He became the Son of God. Flesh is not God, God was in Him as we can have God within us.
The Word never stopped being God, the Holy Spirit was in Jesus but is everywhere else also, filling the universe.
I believe the Word is the Holy Spirit.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Ok sir .
Now I'm asking, do you believe in trinity ?
If yes , what's the concept behind your believe?