₦airaland Forum

cornelboy:
Nope you misinterpreted.

Quote the verse I misinterpreted.

God is the creator.

I never deny that.

God created through Christ. That's it.

I never deny this either.

Though you left most of my points unaddressed which is the reason you can't come with any rebuttal.

Did God lie that He created everything ALL BY HIMSELF?

Did God lie that His VERY RIGHT HAND stretched the Universe?

Pawe12:
bt he campaigned against Jonathan and he spoke I'll of tb Joshua

He never though some pastors under him do.

trueking:
That is nothing, people must yarn rubbish, even Jesus Christ was accused of using demonic powers.
A man In your position must be ready to hear all manner of nonsense, and the painful part is some will come from so called men of God.

You're right but know that Jesus didn't just keep quiet but addressed the accusation!

So coming out like this isn't wrong sometimes.

At least you try to make sense this time around but anyways you'll always meet me at home for Bible study.

Janosky:
1 Corinthians 1:20,24 , Paul says Jesus is the person called "Wisdom."
Your Trinitarian mentors PROVEN that Proverbs 8:22 is correct, the person called Wisdom is a creature/ craftsman, verse 30.

1 Corin 1:20,24 didn't says Jesus is a PERSON CALLED WISDOM stop lying against the Holy scripture.

"However, to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. - NWT

Jesus is the POWER of God and The WISDOM of God says the Holy book.

Proverbs 8:27 & 1 Corinthians 8:6, Jesus Christ is NOT the Creator.

Jesus Christ is the Creator John 1:3, Colo 1:18

[b]Is Jesus Christ the first born a person?

DUBIOUS Trinitarians desperate to TWISTING the holy scriptures.

Jesus is a person, do you have problem with that?

Dubious worshipper of the lying 8 old men in Warwick twisting the Word of God.

Proverbs 8:27 dey your Bible?
Jesus Christ did NOT create heaven.

So it was not Jesus who created the Heaven.

So who created heaven?

He is NEVER the Creator.

But Jehovah USED HIM to CREATE ALL OTHER THINGS.

Is your brain paining you?

Carry your question to God , ask where his son lived before heaven was created.

Now I should carry my question to God simply because you know a created Being needs space to occupy

This is where you dull JWs failed.

God created both heaven and earth before creating the Angels, man & everything to occupy them because every normal people know things created need space to occupy. Thank God, God is not like dull JWs.

Nah Hebrews 1:9 dey give Emusan Sifia pains & WAILING

The pain must be too much for the worshiper of the lying 8 old men in Warwick

Jesus Christ get companions nau

Yet you still believe Jesus is the ONLY ONE CREATED DIRECTLY BY Jehovah. Is that not stupidity?

cornelboy:
It's not my fault that you don't understand it.

At least you see that I'm quoting the scripture and not another Book.

Jesus never claimed to be the creator.

But the scripture says He is the Creator.

cornelboy:
God has no beginnings. But Jesus has a beginning. He existed at a point.

Jesus never had a beginning! A Creator doesn't have a beginning.

Dangote produces cement, does it mean he's the one that operate the machines?

Then Dangote will never make a statement like "I Dangote operate the machines that produce my cement"

And if Dangote actually made such statement I believe even you will never deny that Dangote isn't the very one who produced the cement by himself.

God used Jesus as a tool to create everything.

Kindly quote the place you got this from.

God created Jesus first.

It means Jesus is the one who created Himself because John 1:3 says "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." - NWT

And God can't lie.

That's why he's the firstborn of creation and God's only begotten.

Yes He is the first born of all creation and not FIRST CREATED PERSON. The two statements aren't the same.

God created him directly.

A created Being needs space to occupy, where was Jesus living before God used Him to create Heaven?

1. Yet you believe Jesus has companions/fellow when He was the only one Created directly by God.

2. Yet you claimed He was PROMOTED, to which post again?

3. Yet you believe Jesus is still the same category of Angels.

So definitely if you believe this about Him, then you underrated Him for calling Him Angel because Jesus shouldn't be in the category of Angels at all.

cornelboy:
God brought things into existence through his son.

Smile...even when your organisation claimed Jesus is the one talking in Proverb 8

But read through Prov 8 and see where God Himself carrying out the Creation activities.

Jesus used God's resources.

So you means when Bible says "...I stretched out the heavens with My hands
And I ordained all their host." it was Jesus using the hands of God

You don't know why Watchtower wants you to believe that Jesus is an Angel.

cornelboy:
Hebrews 1:2
[2]And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.

God created the universe through the son, and you say "Jesus was God who created the universe"?

This is very laughable!

So was Jesus involved in CREATION OR NOT?

Now you're contradicting the Bible. That place is clear enough.
God was the creator who created the universe through his son. We can say God used his son, Jesus to create everything.

You're the very one who is contradicting yourself.

How can God USED Jesus and Jesus isn't the Creator?

Now, from Genesis creation account where does God used anybody?

God only SPOKE the scripture says IT WAS SO!

Proverbs 8: 22-36 talk about how God carried out the Creation By HIMSELF.

In Isaiah God says He created everything ALL BY HIMSELF.

Are all these verses lying?

It's like when you hire a construction company to build a building for you. You built that building through the construction company. It's still you cause you provided all the resources.

That's not the situation.

As An Engineer I have never seen where any Client claimed HE BUILDS THE STRUCTURE BY HIMSELF/HERSELF.

Many Bible verses show God created the universe ALL BY HIMSELF, God can't be lying!

Actually, according to the Hebrew verse where God appointed Jesus as his son, the event took place in heaven. Probably before the world was even created.

I know you will soon start changing mouth.

The event in Heb 1 is all about the coming of the Son INTO THE WORLD. come with another lie.

At verse 4 Hebrew chapter 1, Jesus is made more better than the angels, does that mean he's equal to God?

Remember He became part of creation.

Is He not the Only highest ranking Angel which is next to Jehovah according to Watchtower? So why must He be MADE BETTER THAN THE ANGELS again when He is already higher than ANY ANGELS?

Think think think 🤡🤡🤡🤡

I do! Do you?

cornelboy:
Lol no place in the Bible did Jesus claim to be the creator nor was he called the creator.
Bring verses 🤡🤡

Lol holy one...are the angels in heaven holy ones or not 🤣🤣

Angels are not The HOLY ONE!

In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.* + 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence John 1:1-3 - NWT

Primary school question for you: Who brought things into existence?

"And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. Heb 1:10 NWT

cornelboy:
That's ridiculous. The word of God is the Bible.

It's not that's because you lack scriptural understanding.

Jesus was with God before the beginning of creation of the world. He existed alongside with God. He was a being distinct from the Father.

Absolutely! So how can He be An Angel when Angels are all product of Creation.

Only Being who can exist outside Creation is God.

Hebrews 1:3
[3]The Son radiates God’s own glory and expresses the very character of God, and he sustains everything by the mighty power of his command. When he had cleansed us from our sins, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God in heaven.

Hope you understand this verse.

Very well! Buy do you?

Notice the @underlined part.

ONLY GOD HAS ABSOLUTE POWER TO Sustain CREATION YET THIS VERSE SAYS Jesus is the one carrying out that operation.

After Jesus finished his first mission on earth, he was exalted to the right hand of God. That's a promotion.

No doubt about that but the question is, why someone who was directly created by Jehovah according to you - JWs (which means second in command to Jehovah) will still need to be PROMOTED? Which promotion pass second in command?

The only promotion someone like VP will have is to the very President.

So for Jesus to be promoted means He never hold such post before which is the reason Paul says in Col 1:18 "...so that he might become the one who is first in all things;" NWT

The reason is that Jesus was never part of the creation but when He became part of the creation THERE'S A NEED FOR HIM TO BECOME FIRST IN ANYTHING UNDER CREATION which is the reason God COMMANDED ALL ANGELS to Worship Him.

So I don't know what you mean that Jesus is God's word. Explain better.

The Bible says so not me.

I reasoned from the Bible that Jesus/Micheal had been God's spokesman from the ancient times that's why John gave him the title "the word".

Your reason is faulty that's not the reason.

John specifically says THE WORD is the Agent behind the Creation not SPOKESMAN and John never addressed Jesus as Michael

Also Jesus said that he didn't speak on authority but only says what the Father commanded him.

Yes because the Father sent Him as A Son.

At revelation 1:1 we see that the revelation was handed from God to Jesus.

Nobody have problem with that.

These are the reasons why John the apostle referred to Jesus Christ as the WORD.

No! Not the reason. The reason is well detailed from John himself when he says in John 1:1 "In the beginning was The WORD..."

And went further to say in verse 3 that "All things came into existence through him,(The Word) + and apart from him(The Word) not even one thing came into existence. - NWT

Notice @color-red "NOT EVEN ONE THING CAME INTO EXISTENCE"

Remember ALL ANGELS including Micheal came into existence, again the ONLY BEING WHO DIDN'T CONE INTO EXISTENCE is God.

cornelboy:
So the fact is Jesus had an identity before becoming human

Which is The Word of God

and the clues we have in the Bible point that he is/was Michael.

Not at all, Bible never addressed Jesus as Angel Michael. You can bring the verse here.

Whether you agree or not doesn't change anything.

It's you who is in denial mode.

1. God is the ONLY one ever refers to as "The HOLY ONE" and that was exactly how the evil spirit refers to Jesus because he knows who was standing before him.

2. God is the Only one ever refers to as THE BEGINNING and the New Testament called Jesus this without missing word.

3. God is the Only one ever refers to as the Creator and the New Testament says Jesus is the Creator.

So where exactly does any Bible verse called Jesus archangel Michael?

cornelboy:
Lol. When was he not part of creation?

He was not part of creation until He became man.

According to the chapter, we see that at a point, he wasn't appointed as God's son yet. Then God appointed him.

Which means He was not SON until that time God appointed Him. Do you agree?

So before God appointed him, what was he?

He was God who created the universe.

Isn't becoming God's son a privilege and promotion to Jesus

No! It's a delight He has towards His own creation!

MaxInDHouse:
We don't PREACH it from house to house but that's his REAL IDENTITY

Liar! JWs preach it from house to house as long as it's inside a magazine distributed by Watchtower.

so it's only revealed to interested ones who humbly request a home Bible study with us.

Liar! Was Watchtower magazine only FOR INTERESTED ONES?

The "word of God" simply means the angel who always convey messages from Almighty God to all the other angels that's why one of the fallen angels said to Jesus:

“What have we to do with you, Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ? Did you come to destroy us? I know exactly who you are, the Holy One of God!” Mark 1:24

And in your delusion, you still believe this ONE PARTICULAR ANGEL who ONLY HIM HAS access to God still belongs to a particular group of ANGELS OR FELLOWS!

Back in heaven when all the angels were with God Jesus is the purest among them

No single verse to support this but just delusion from your mind inclination.

that God used to pass information to all the others so all of them knew him as the Holy (Pure) one of God.

Yet you still claim Jesus has a FELLOW according to Heb 1:9

That leaves us with another question!

Who could be the Holy one among all other heavenly sons of God apart from the one called the Archangel? Jude :9

God is the Only person who was ever addressed as "THE HOLY ONE" throughout the Hebrew scriptures no Being ever, so when the evil spirit recognises Jesus as "THE HOLY ONE" he knows exactly who stand before him.

Besides, no where in Jude not even verse 9 that links Michael to the HOLY ONE, this is just your perverted and twisting style of the scripture.

Well there are many more scriptural backings pointing to Jesus as the Archangel Michael

There's none! Quote direct verse here!

The early time you agree that this is just a man-made doctrine that has no root in the scripture the better for you.

but if you're not interested in that we will not force it into your head after all there are thousands of sects claiming Christians

Someone has been discussing with you but now it's if he's not interested. Why can you quote the scripture where Bible actually called Jesus Christ Archangel?

Remember one reason JWs rejected the doctrine of Trinity is that the word TRINITY never appeared any where in the Bible.

so if you can find a better performing group than us go and worship with them

You already know he is not part of you people and not looking for any performing performance group, yet you can still come with this baseless statement.

but in our midst we know the one who has always been standing for the salvation of God's people! Daniel 12:1

But the person isn't the Saviour of the World Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Who is the Creator of all things John 1:3, Heb 1:11

MaxInDHouse:
Most arrogant people feel Jesus was addressing all readers of the Bible here but if so then how come he commanded his disciples to go and TEACH others what he commanded? Matthew 28:20

The Ethiopian Eunuch was READING the Bible yet he needed someone to guide him into the UNDERSTANDING of what he was reading! Act 8:31

A baptized Jew named Apollos knew the scriptures very well but other Jews had to TEACH him before he could gain accurate knowledge of the scriptures! Act 18:24-26

I like this part but just that it contradicted your point below.

Today everyone just want to interpret God's word according to the inclination of their hearts {Jeremiah 17:9} that's why confusion is everywhere as groups claiming Christians are contradicting themselves and worshipers have to cross from one church to another when they're tired of where they worship yet they'll claim it's the same God they're worshiping even though the doctrines are conflicting.

Didn't Watchtower interpret God's word according to the inclination of their heart?

I know your mouth will change now.

Jesus referred to all these people as workers of lawlessness (iniquity) Matthew 7:21-23

I agreed! Which can also be said about Watchtower Society.

Real Christians humbly submit to the same line of thought {1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3}

No! You said above that Jesus commanded the Apostles to TEACH (which you even cap it), so who taught Russell and his team?

I know you won't answer this because who ever taught Russell and his team must be a real Christian.

as they agree on what they concluded after studying God's word together

You're contradicting yourself, so some people can actually come together to STUDY God's word and agreed on whatever they study but you said above that NOT EVERYONE can just read and interpret God's word on their own inclination as the person MUST BE TAUGHT.

{John 17:17} so they're united as one in faith {John 17:22} adhering to the teaching of those taking the lead among them! Act 2:42 compare to Hebrews 13:7, 17

Suddenly change tune to support his gods who were not taught by anyone but only interpreting God's word in their own inclination according to him

cornelboy:
Lol that event took place in heaven.
His fellows were the angels.

I do say that the problem you people have with the scripture is the inability to distinguish between when the scripture speaks about Jesus becomes part of creation and before becoming part of creation.

Jesus was anointed by God..
He obtained a name..
God appointed him to be his son..

Yes! That was when He became part of creation.

Now, pay attention to that @underlined because your mouth will soon change.

From that @underlined it shows that you have the understanding that Jesus was never A SON from beginning but was MADE A SON at a point.

Jesus is clearly a lesser being to God.

Yes! When He became part of creation.

The clues we see point that Jesus identity before he came to the world was being the archangel Michael.

No! Jesus was never addressed as Angel Michael nor any verse supported it (you provide the verse here if I'm wrong). Rather, the scripture says Jesus is the Creator.

cornelboy:
What was Jesus name before he came to earth and was named Jesus?

The Word of God!

Can you quote where Jesus was called Michael from Genesis to Revelation?

Kobojunkie:
You mean you don't even know this yet you already determined it non-radioactive and hence able to leave for this heaven you claim?

Since you think soul is radioactive, then you must have known its chemical composition.

Are Beings not living in heaven?

Kobojunkie:
Wow.... this one watches too many occult shows. The body is radioactive and so will decay but somehow soul no dey radioactive?

What is the chemical composition of soul?

MaxInDHouse:
Can you back the highlighted with the Bible?

Can you back 1914 with the Bible?

Kobojunkie:
Judgment of what God? YHWH whose judgement against His Israel came to a conclusion over 1900 years ago? Or Jesus Christ who instead said His judgement over those who are of the Kingdom of God will happen towards of His millennial(1000 years ) reign ?

So does that mean there's nothing like Judgement of God?

Mrs ITK

Kobojunkie:
*** Yawn***

Better!!!

Kobojunkie:
LOL.... so, if I make it known from the start that my audience is specifically those of Hebrew descent, I am not able to refer to them as men?

The content of that verse isn't for ONLY HEBREW DESCENT, stop lying.

Stop wiggling around trying to twist the obvious.

You're the one twisting the obvious here!

Kobojunkie:
Ignoring the fact that the contents of that letter is clearly addressed to only those of Hebrew descent is what is heretical in this.

Stop lying which ONLY THOSE OF HEBREW DESCENT?

The content actually says "And as it is appointed UNTO MEN(plural)..."

gameova:
Thanks for the humble reminder sir. I'm greatful. But the bible also said we should seek first the kingdom of God and all things (prosperity) will be added. What do you have to say about that?

Yes, it was put that way and the same scripture says ALL THESE THINGS are not what can distract us from the same Kingdom of God.

Which means you don't love God because of ALL these THINGS. So if you're losing faith because of ALL THESE THINGS then probably you're not seeking the kingdom in the first place.

MindHacker9009:
There is no where in the New Testament where is say the 2nd Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

So does it necessarily need to be stated?

So how do you know what has been fulfilled if it is not in The New Testament.

See question, you read it somewhere that something will happen and it happened. And you still want to know if it's fulfilled or not

What if Revelation has already been fulfilled like the 2nd Temple that was revealed like you said.

What "IF" Revelation...

Jerusalem destruction happened, so check if all what written in Revelation have happened or not.

TheMadame:
Thank you sir, but is the judgement immediately?

That's why I said there are different categories of judgement as revealed in the scripture.

The first judgement is immediately, that is once a person died if the person is a believer in Christ straight to Abraham Bosom and if it's unbelievers then straight to Hell.

The second judgement is where both righteous and unrighteous will be resurrected to be judged finally. Acts 24:15. Where every deed will be made open to everyone.

After this the, the righteous will be judged at the judgement seat of Christ where everyone one will get their rewards like crown of life, crown of righteousness, Crown of glory e.t.c

I heard some people saying that the dead will remain in the grave until an appointed judgement day for all. How true is this?

Many unscriptural doctrines are flying everywhere today, so the best way to find out is to READ SCRIPTURE FOR YOURSELF, many versions are so easy to read and it won't take it much time. By this you will know if it's true or not.

I hope my questions are not too much?

Not at all, it's a pleasure discussing Bible with people without getting tired.

I just want guidance and enlightenment.

It's not bad but I believe you reading Bible especially New Testament about this topic will help so that you won't end up accepting wrong doctrines.

Some people who will say all dead end up in grave will tell you some verses where Jesus and people talk about Hell are FIGURATIVE and not to be taken as literal.

So that's why I advise you read it for yourself first and take note most important verses that address this topic.

gameova:
Good afternoon Nairalanders. Challenges in my life right now is making me Lose faith in God ( that's if he even exist) I've served since 2017. Ever since I've been jobless. Can't even afford basic feeding or necessities. 32 years , no wife, job , business, nothing. Still depending on my aged mum's pension. I remember when i was afire for "God" . Spoke in tongues, did evangelism, a prayer warrior. But what did I get in reward, shame and disappointment. Honestly I'm tired and can't continue living like this. I think I'm better off dead. Let me go and protest to God himself.

This scripture is for you.

35 "Can anything ever separate us from Christ’s love? Does it mean he no longer loves us if we have trouble or calamity, or are persecuted, or hungry, or destitute, or in danger, or threatened with death? (As the Scriptures say, “For your sake we are killed every day; we are being slaughtered like sheep.”) No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us. And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[p] neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord. ROM 8:35-39 NLT

MindHacker9009:
The Book of Revelation was written around 96 AD but John did not mention about the destruction of the 2nd temple that happened in 70 AD. Was John not aware that the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem had been destroyed?

What is the essence of talking about Jerusalem destruction when what John received was A NEW REVELATION of what is coming upon earth?

Revelation about destruction of Jerusalem has been revealed years before Jesus came to earth.

So read your Bible to find it.

TheMadame:
Good day all members. I wonder what happens to human beings after death?

Since you brought God into it then you must accept what God says that happened after death.

Is the judgment of God Almighty immediate?

Judgement as found in the scripture is of different type.

After death, the judgement of temporary place for the believers and unbelievers are established Heb 9:27

Do the dead depart to heaven or hell immediately or do the dead remain in the grave till an appointed date for judgment.

Bosom of Abraham for believers in heaven and hell fire for unbelievers.

Please I would love response from more enlightened people.
Thanks in advance.

Hope it helps!

joxxy01:
Sorry I only ask to get clarity and I am not in anyways judging anybody...But if you check what happened in the upper room, you will discover that as the tongues were been uttered... Unbelievers around understood and gave interpretations Mind you everyone in the room was praying( tonguing )'privately' ... And my conclusion is they was no confusion amongst the hearers(unbelievers)as the Holy spirit divinely ochastrated its interpretation.. But what is happening now is not the case, some unbelievers even laugh when they attend our gatherings..

@underlined is evident that many people don't read Bible for themselves.

The writer of that incident pointed it out clearly that "And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability." Acts 2:4 - NLT

Another version put it this way CEV - "The Holy Spirit took control of everyone, and they began speaking whatever languages the Spirit let them speak."

So it was Holy Spirit that gave them the ability of speaking what people will hear at that particular time, it doesn't mean it's fixed that way.

joxxy01:
This is a questions that has been bothering me for quite some times now and yet to get any satisfying answer...

That means you don't read your Bible.

According to Apostle Paul in (1 Corinthians 14: 1- 19) tonguing should be done privately except they there is someone to interpret..

The same scripture you cited makes it clear that speaking in tongues are of different form.

1. Speaking to God through the power of Holy Spirit personally.

2. Receiving messages from God through the power of Holy Spirit and deliver it to the church.

But in our present day Church gatherings , members can blow in tongues for hours without any one to interpret it as taught by Paul and it has become a norm.

Paul made it clear that when speaking in tongues personally you don't need interpretation since it's just between you and God. But speaking in tongues to pass message to the church is what needed interpreter.

Please I need and enlightenment is this not abnormal?

Read Bible from different versions is sufficient for you especially the very chapter you cited.

Aemmyjah:
Let him bury his head in the sand
The way Jesus revealed himself to me and others is by means of the Bible
The olodo does not understand what reveal means
He thinks revealing something is by seeing it

You people will keep contending with the truth.

You want to change the meaning of that verse even when your own translation (the best in the world according you people delusion) still put it in a very straight forward.

Here it is again: "Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me. In turn, whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will clearly show myself to him.” John 14:21- NWT

And the reason for the rejection of this verse is that you JWs don't have personal encounter with Jesus despite claiming to be the one who love and obey Him all over the world.

But since this verse counter the lies of "love and obey" the technicalities must be injected to change the narrative of the verse