₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Your own PERSONAL opinion, he did not specify whether heaven or earth

When you have eyes to read and brain to understand.

It is stated clearly that it was ON EARTH

That's why I do tell you that, the day you can be able to distinguish from the scripture when Jesus became part of creation and when Jesus was not part of creation is the day your deliverance from Watchtower false doctrine begins.

he can't do a single thing without orders from his father {John 5:30}

You're right but only when He became part of the creation.

Then I challenge you to provide a single verse where any order was given to Him at Creation.

otherwise all your quotations that has to do with him must be here on earth himself and his father are one {John 10:30} means he has the same line of thought with his heavenly father not that he is the same as his father! John 17:22

I never said HE IS THE SAME AS HIS FATHER, or do I?

The point is, that statement in John 5:30 was about His mission on earth and there are many of such statement from Jesus in the scripture

cornelboy:
I'll spell it out to you for the last time.

As you're spelling it out ensure you open that skull too

God said in OT books that he created everything with his own hands. You've brought verses on that already.

Which means God can't lie and different verses shows how God carried out the Creation activities.

Genesis where the first creation activities was recorded shows GOD SPOKE and IT WAS SO! God didn't command another Being.

Same God stated at Hebrew 1:10 that his son who's Jesus created them...

Yes! because They were both God and ONLY God can create. God is not a weak god who is not capable of creating things.

Do you know what John, Paul and the writer of Hebrew concluded @ John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 and Hebrew 1:2 respectively?

Yes! That Jesus is the Creator because without HIM(Jesus) NOT EVEN ONE THING WERE Created.

Their conclusion was that "God created through Christ".

Yes! But Genesis details how God created things by just a command directly to the THINGS CREATED and not to another BEING.

Prov 8 described how God Himself performed the creation work.

Everyone knows that Dangote produces cement. He can say it anywhere that he does.
He might not even visit the factory for a year and yet cements are being produced day by day.
If Dangote comes and gives credits to the production manager that he produces good cements, does that mean the manager is the real producer or owns the factory? No! He works for Dangote and uses Dangote's resources.
Thus, Dangote is the real producer of the cements.

I've thrashed this earlier.

If Dangote comes to and said you see those cement I'm the one who operates all the machines that produce them or there was a report that at the factory of Dangote cement, I saw how he(Dangote) operate the machines that produce the cement.

I guess you'll never doubt that Dangote didn't involve in the production of his cement neither will you conclude that Dangote assigned the work to another person.

Genesis said God issued all command to the things created and this was supported by Psalm 148:3, Rom 4:17, Heb 11:3

Same with Christ, Jesus created according to God's instructions and he used God's resources.

Which resources are you talking about when the scripture says God created the universe from nothing?

Can you provide just a single verse where this Jesus created single thing and the name of resources used?

Prov 8 shows how God carried out this operation.

Stop following the tradition of men and read Scripture for yourself.

God Is The Creator

I'm not disputing that the point so far is that Jesus is the Creator.

MaxInDHouse:
The innovation is not his own instructions is from his father: the Grand Creator! John 5:30

So far so good you haven't been able to point out just single thing Jesus created.

This is John 5:30 "I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me." - NWT

The above shows this is not about creation but what Jesus did while on Earth. Jesus wasn't doing any judgement in Heaven.

Keep dodging them

Is Power of God and the Wisdom of God a person?

Point out ONE THING Jesus created

MaxInDHouse:
Firstborn {Colossians 1:15} worked with his father as craftsman when creating other things {Proverbs 8:30}

That makes Him the Creator

he can't be separated from other children of God who are spirit creatures: Angels!

because He Created those Children of God including you

MaxInDHouse:
The point is mankind wouldn't have any need of Archangel Michael (Jesus) at all on this planet if there was no rebellion.

Smile.... that's not the point.

The points are:

1. Jesus is the Creator so he can never be Angel.
2. The scripture says God created everything.
3. Jesus is the Power of God and the Wisdom of God.
4. The wisdom in Prov 8 isn't a person but the manifestation of Yahweh infinite Wisdom for creation purpose.

So he has played his part in God's work just as all others have played their part, the one and only person we will know here on this planet is Adam because he's human that's visible nobody will think of any heavenly creature talkless having him in our midst!

Irrelevant! Stick to the POV which are:

Is Power of God and the Wisdom of God a person?

Point out ONE THING Jesus created from the scripture.

Smile.....

People can see how empty you are

Is Power of God and the Wisdom of God a person?

Point out ONE THING Jesus created

MaxInDHouse:
That supposed to be Adam's position before he lost the privilege of being God's first Son through whom all humans must learn about our heavenly father who is the father of our earthly father. Deuteronomy 6:6-7
So had it been Adam remained obedient to his heavenly father whoever dishonour Adam will be exterminated by God Himself:

“Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live a long time in the land that Jehovah your God is giving you" Exodus 20:12

So Adam supposed to be the first in anything we do on this planet if he had remain obedient that's why Paul likened Jesus to Adam:

“The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit! 1Corinthians 15:45

So Adam must also be FIRST BEFORE HEAVEN AND EARTH were created

Here it is again: "and he is the head of the body, the congregation.+ He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,+ so that he might become the one who is first in all things; - NWT

Jesus (Archangel Michael) came to replace Adam otherwise we wouldn't have any need of him coming to this planet in the first place

Say the truth and you won't die.

Jesus won't have any need to BECOME PART OF CREATION in the first place.

That was the message of Paul in Col 1& Heb 1 and the reason why Paul said "He must be first in everything"

In simplicity, Paul says Jesus is outside Creation as the Creator of All things both hidden and visible, heavens and earth and now that He has become part of the creation then He must be first in all things.

Adam would have remain the everlasting father of all mankind!

Not the point and stop deviating.

Keep dodging my point but I'll keep bringing them up for you.

MaxInDHouse:
FIRSTBORN simply means the first among those being born!
For instance there are billions of humans on this planet today but there is no single human born without Adam being the ancestor! Luke 3:23-38

Nobody disputes that but why would anyone later said Adam needs to BE FIRST IN EVERYTHING if it's already established that Adam is actually the firstborn?

Definitely, Paul knows exactly what he was saying but you never.

The same applies to Jesus, because he was given the power (ability) to create other things doesn't make him more than a creature

Point out just ONE THINGS Jesus created. Why are you afraid of quoting scripture to support your claim?

At least Prov 8 went further to detail what were created and who was creating them.

just as Adam can't be separated from all those being born by God even though he is the father of all humans today.

Irrelevant and never in connection to the POV.

Why was Paul said Jesus must BE FIRST IN EVERYTHING after it was already established that Jesus is the firstborn which you take to be FIRST CREATED? That's the point.

Do you now understand?

I do. Do you understand too?

MaxInDHouse:
Power and Wisdom of God are used by Paul to illustrate how much his fellow believers could gain by learning about Christ that's why he told them:
For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ! 1 Corinthians 2:16
Without Jesus the believers can't gain the accurate knowledge of the true God regarding WISDOM and POWER.

Don't change mouth

Is Power of God and Wisdom of God a person according to Prov 8 and 1 Corin 1:20?

You already have illustration how this is about Yahweh Wisdom brought forth for the purpose of creation.

China already had the potentials before they began inventing what the world can see but when we see their product we can grasp that they are both powerful and wise through the things they're producing.

Does Yahweh Wisdom and power a person?

Stop this division tactics Oga Ade

The firstborn of all creations {Colossians 1:15} is enough to prove that Jesus (Archangel Michael) was created for there can't be any firstborn who is not part of those being born:

Paul made it clear in the same Col 1:18 the reason why Jesus has to be FIRST in EVERYTHING.

and he is the head of the body, the congregation.+ He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,+ so that he might become the one who is first in all things; - NWT

If Jesus was the firstborn (meaning first created), why must there be a need for Him to still be FIRST IN EVERYTHING?

Yahweh is the BEGINNING does that means Yahweh was CREATED or one can ASK, the BEGINNING OF WHAT?

“The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old"‭‭ Proverbs‬ ‭8:22‬ ‭NIV‬‬

But the speaker here isn't a PERSON but infinite Wisdom of Yahweh.

Again, if you claimed this to be Jesus, then why not started what He created in the following verses but rather the speaker was saying it was God Himself who is carrying out those activities?

Did God not used Jesus to create ALL OTHER THINGS again?

So God first created Jesus (Archangel Michael) then impart in him the knowledge to create all other things that's why he is called FIRSTBORN!

Can you point out "OTHER THINGS" Jesus created according to Prov 8?

I know you and your cohort will never address this.

See the way he boycotted my question.

Is Power of God also a person?

MaxInDHouse:
God has always been there it's Jesus (Archangel Michael) who has a beginning as the firstborn of all creations {Colossians 1:15}

Yet you agreed He is the POWER of God and the WISDOM of God.

so it's when God started creating things that His POWER and WISDOM became manifest. Proverbs 8:1, 22

But you said the POWER AND WISDOM is a PERSON. so what does God start using in CREATING THINGS?

For instance nobody can say China has the potential in technology until they began inventing so many things so we can say their WISDOM and POWER became manifest through their innovations.

But this is the actual interpretation of that Prov 8 not that the Wisdom their is a person but the infinite Wisdom of Yahweh brought into manifestation for the purpose of creation.

So you can see that you're the one who is wrong by equating that to be a PERSON.

That's the practical application of what you're reading not that God doesn't have power and wisdom without Jesus

But 1 Corin 1:20 specifically stated that Jesus is the POWER OF GOD AND THE WISDOM OF GOD.

If you interject this into creation account then you can see why Scripture says Jesus is the CREATOR and the Father is also the Creator.

I know Watchtower has made you reduce God to ordinary human.

Learn learn...

God could have created another person like Jesus to be His first born son!

Jesus was not created John 1:3 "All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." - NWT

Do you understand this verse?

Well without removing Watchtower Vail from those eyes this same verse from your NWT won't still make sense to you

MaxInDHouse:
They say the wisdom of God is not a person on his own {Proverbs 8:1} yet Paul made us understand that Christ is the one called the wisdom of God! 1Corinthians 1:30

If not because you're olodo...

Do you know the implication of that Paul statement against your doctrine?

If you can interpret that verse accordingly, then you will know you and Paul aren't on the same page.

Paul also said Jesus is the POWER OF GOD

Is Power of God a person?

In the message to Mary, the Angel told her that "The POWER OF GOD will overshadow her..."

Which means without Jesus, God doesn't have power and wisdom.

But if you understand that Jesus is the very "essence God Himself" then you won't have problem.

I'm just tired of trinitarians!

Your tiredness just started, JWs have been battling with Trinitarians for more than 100years so relax and feel more tiredness

Janosky:
Emusan confused LIAR

JaNosense the deluded dullard

Proverbs 8:27-30
27“When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He decreed a vault on the face of the deep,

28“When He set the clouds above, When He made the fountains of the deep strong,

29“When He gave to the sea its limit, So that the waters would not transgress His command, When He decreed the foundations of the earth,

So who is the speaker and who is the "HE" that is carrying out what described in those verses?

1. Wisdom/Jesus = The speaker
2. God = He
3. I'm confused I don't know

30“Then I was beside Him, a master workman

He WAS BESIDES HIM not that HE WAS THE ONE DOING THE WORK.

This should tell you that, the wisdom is of that infinite Wisdom of God which Paul said He's the person of Jesus because this wisdom isn't created but has been in existence alongside of God.

Emusan's says Jesus the Wisdom of God is an ONLOOKER in Proverbs 8:27-30.

But you didn't highlight anything the wisdom do in those verse.

Is your brain paining you?

The created work man called Wisdom/Jesus Christ

What did the wisdom actually do in those verses you quoted above?

Emusan relegated to "ONLOOKER"

Then point out the work wisdom actually performed in Prov 8.

Olodo...

Janosky:
Emusan LIAR, you break speedometer for dullness.

See how he stylishly boycotted all my points without addressing one.

Anyways, I know your style.

Quick Reminder:

1. You claimed God is the one who created heavens and not Jesus Christ and at the same time.

2. You claimed Jesus is the ONLY one directly created by Jehovah and Jehovah used Him to CREATE ALL (OTHER) things. (Contradiction)

3. You provided Prov 8 where the Wisdom was sitting watching how God is carrying out the activities of the creation which supports other scripture where God actually says He created everything ALL BY HIMSELF.

Lying liar JWs!

cornelboy:
He claimed he did

God didn't claim. Stop this nonsense.

God actually created EVERYTHING according to the scripture.

and still said the son did

So who actually did it?

they are the same person you say

Yes! because two DIFFERENT people can't claimed one thing.

or trinity doctrine has wounded your reasoning.

Where did I talk about Trinity since our discussion started?

Definitely, you're afraid of something

God created through Jesus. Simple!

The question is who actually carried out the activities? This is the question you're still dodging.

Prov 8 that your deluded brother is pointing you to, still shows that it was God Himself carrying out those activities.

God is the creator. Everything still goes to God.

No! The scripture described WHO actually carried out the activities.

God says HIS OWN HAND STRETCHED OUT THE HEAVENS,

Everything Jesus used was from God...

So Jesus was holding God's hand to stretch out HEAVENS.

Well I'm expecting you quote the scripture.

See how demonic doctrines are destroying your life.

You still have a lot to learn!

Of course I'm not above learning but you that you have attained the height of learning.

Where did the Son carry out a single creation activity?

Janosky:
Emusan LIAR, continue DECEIVING YOURSELF.
Greek Hebrew 1:10
"And, in the beginning....."

Hebrews 1:10 Greek screenshot is against your FALSEHOOD

So what purpose of screenshot Greek of Heb 1:10 without telling me your point?

Deluded JWs.

I'm expecting you to provide different scholars which says it's about Jehovah.

Dull JaNosense

Janosky:
"He also says to the Son", this expression is NOT in Hebrew 1:10.
It's spurious

Was the word "OTHER" in Col 1:16-18?

Have you called it SPURIOUS?

Hebrews 1:10 is copied from Psalms 102:24-25.

But the content of Heb is all about the SON!

Which means he knows what that verse means and who is actually about.

I know he will soon ditch his own understanding of that verse when Watchtower brainwashing sets in

@ Psalms 102:24-25, is Jesus Christ the God of king David?

No!

Yes! Reason why you're pained to marrow.

Therefore, Jehovah God is referenced in Hebrew 1:10, this verse refers to Jehovah God.

Liar! Everyone knows that verse is in reference to Jesus but since you know Jesus made Jesus the Creator you have to twist it.

Anyways, your organisation has been trying since 100years and still failing.

Proverbs 8:22,27, Jesus Christ ( Wisdom personified) stated that God his Father created the heaven.

So Jesus was not the ONLY THING God the Father created

Now Wisdom is personified again in Prov 8 the same you who claimed wisdom is a PERSON on this same thread, just see how Devil and evil doctrines is playing with your mind.

Janosky:
The Devil is not demons,demons work with the Devil.

Mark 8:33 Jesus rebuke Peter not Satan.
Please stick to what your Bible says.

Do you stick to what the Bible says or what Watchtower says?

Janosky:
Psalms 102:24-25
24I say: “O my God, do not take me in the midst of my days! Your years go on through all generations. 25In the beginning You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Hebrews 1:10 is a copy of Psalms 102:25.
Therefore, Hebrews 1:10 references Jehovah God, nothing there concern Jesus.

Smile...yet your brother who knows the truth clearly said and I quote "He also said the son made the heavens and the earth..

Hebrews 1:10
[10]He also says to the Son,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth
and made the heavens with your hands.

Definitely you don't tell yourself the truth because everyone knows that Heb is ALL ABOUT the Son.

Unfortunately, I know after the brainwashed by Watchtower he'll soon be claiming Heb 1:10 is about Jehovah

Or :
@ Psalms 102:24-25,do you agree that Jesus is the God of David?

Capital YES!

Jesus Himself agree to that.

Mbanu!!!

Says the deluded JWs!

Proverbs 8:27 is the nemesis of Trinitarians.

No! It's actually your nightmare! because The wisdom described in Prov 8 is just an ONLOOKER while God was actually carrying out the activities.

So tell us One thing Wisdom CREATED according to Prov 8.

They are desperate to elevate Jesus above God his Father ( meaning God his Senior).

No! We actually remember what Jesus said that He existed ALONGSIDE OF His Father.

While you Jehovah Witness relegated Jesus to ordinary Angel because of your evil mind against the Creator of you

Janosky:
Jehovah God did not lie.

I know you can't say Jehovah is lying.

So who created Heaven?

Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 48:13= Proverbs 8:27.
Your own Bible, Proverbs 8:27 PROVEN Emusan Sifia pains WAILING on Nairaland.

let your NWT cause the severe pains for you
Isaiah 48:13 "My own hand laid the foundation of the earth, And my right hand spread out the heavens. When I call to them, they stand up together.

Isaiah 44: 24 "This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, Who formed you since you were in the womb: “I am Jehovah, who made everything. I stretched out the heavens by myself, And I spread out the earth. Who was with me?"

"When HE (Jehovah God in verse 22) established the heavens, I (Wisdom, Jesus Christ in 1 Cor 1:20,24) was there."

So Jehovah is the One who actually established the heavens.

So what did Wisdom actual CREATE if Jehovah is the one carrying out those activities?

I use to tell you that Prov 8 is never in your support rather it keeps exposing your dull skull the more.

1 Corin 1:20,24 is against you, Jesus is the Power of God and the WISDOM of God.

Do you know what that means?

Dull headed JWs

Daniel 4:30 is similar to Isaiah 44:22.
Did Nebuchadnezzar say that he alone built his Palace? Yes.

It's not lying liar JWs.

Nebuchadnezzar never claimed HE BUILT THE CITY WITH HIS OWN HAND OR any member of his body ever participated in the whole construction.

I challenge you to provide a single verse like this from Nebuchadnezzar case

"My own hand (Nebuchadnezzar) laid the foundation of the city, And my right hand (Nebuchadnezzar) spread out the city."

"This is what Nebuchadnezzar says... “I am Jehovah(Nebuchadnezzar), who made everything. I(Nebuchadnezzar ) stretched out the city by myself, And I (Nebuchadnezzar) spread out the foundation. Who was with me?"

Daniel 4:30,Who was with Nebuchadnezzar when he built the palace?

Nothing like that in Dan 4:30. When your leaders with Devils mind can add to the scripture, who are you the follower?

Emusan sold his brain to Trinity

While you sold your brain to those lying 8 old men in Warwick

cornelboy:
Lol have I ever disputed that he said that?

Good! So God is not lying which means He actually created everything By Himself.

He also said the son made the heavens and the earth..

The Son is then A CREATOR because ONLY A CREATOR can Create

Hebrews 1:10
[10]He also says to the Son,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth
    and made the heavens with your hands.

So why are you now saying the Son isn't a Creator when The Father Himself said The Son is?

And it says here that God created the universe through Jesus the son.

[2]And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.

Which means both must be the same.

Figure it out 😂😂

I do, did you?

cornelboy:
Argue with the Bible

And these are the Bible verses you're still contending with

NWT:
Isaiah 48:13 "My own hand laid the foundation of the earth, And my right hand spread out the heavens. When I call to them, they stand up together.

Isaiah 44: 24 "This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, Who formed you since you were in the womb: “I am Jehovah, who made everything. I stretched out the heavens by myself, And I spread out the earth. Who was with me?"

Just tell us that Jehovah was lying here!

Globad:
Another tree theory

How do you hope to get a physical evidence for something that is not pysical?

Yes there's a physical evidence!

In my home town, there was a BIG TREE at the centre of our main market then. The tree has been there years even before my Dad was born. So something strange begin to happened within the market all of a sudden. The rumour then was that red oil will turn to blood (that is people will buy red oil in the market but on getting home it has turned to blood). So people begin to panic and get disturbed by that incident.

The next news that will come out is that God revealed that one TREE has been bewitched in the market where the evil people reside to carry out this evil thing.

To cut he long story short, the day God delivered my hometown. It started raining towards evening with heavy breeze and thunder, then one particular thunder strike which very loud and shake ground. By the time the rain stopped, breaking News was out that one particular tree in the market has been uprooted by the rain.

Lo and behold, when people get there, there was a very big hole at the centre of the tree reaching the bottom but it didn't reach up or burst out anywhere and inside the tree you can see different items of cooking utensils (local ones) there.

How do these items get there? who is living inside this tree? were the questions people begin to ask.

After that incident, the evil things that used to happen in the market ceased.

Note: this is not hearsay, I saw it live and direct though it happened back in late 90's.

Janosky:
Emusan Rebuttal and acceptance.
Emusan is confused.

Empty skull Janosense

Yes.

So why did you lie for your god against the Word of God?

The Bible itself, Bible scholars and your fellow Trinitarians PROVEN Emusan is LYING

Provide the Bible verse, the scholars and fellow Trinitarians that proof me wrong here or shut your gutters mouth forever.

It is PROVEN that Jesus Christ is the instrumentality of creation @ John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, Hebrew 1:2.
God his Father is the Creator, 1 Corinthians 8:6.
The guy no go agree but he no get liver to delete Proverbs 8 :27 & 1 Corinthians 8:6 from him Bible.

Dull worshiper of the lying 8 old men in Warwick.

Christ is the Creator.

God is not a liar like your gods in Warwick.

God says He created everything ALL BY HIMSELF.

Just tell me God lied.

Proverbs 8:27 & Isaiah 44 :24 dey cause Emusan Sifia pains

Who created the Heaven? You didn't answer this you this liar.

If Heaven was created before Jesus that means Jesus wasn't the only THING Jehovah created directly by Himself according to your lying organisation.

This is Isaiah 44:24 "This is what the Lord says— your Redeemer and Creator: “I am the Lord, who made all things. I alone stretched out the heavens. Who was with me when I made the earth?"

This is God affirming of CREATING HEAVEN BY HIMSELF without anyone WITH HIM.

So was God lying?

Emusan go & paste Proverbs 8:27 & Colossians 1:16 into your brain, your comprehension skills is very poor, Mr dullard.

After you remove Watchtower delusion then paste Isaiah 44:24, John 1:3 and Col 1:18 (which your demonic organisation even inserted dubious word "OTHER" into) into your empty skull.

Emusan so fond of LYING
Oga,Is Job 38:1-7 in your own Bible?

So you believe I have Bible.

Anyways, I didn't see where Jesus dwells before Heaven was created in Job 38:1-7. Kindly point out the verse.

Job 38:1-7, Jehovah's answer to Job exposed your delusion & FALSE claims.
Emusan ,Carry your GIBBERISH outta here

So Jehovah answered to Job proof that Jesus lives in eternity with Jehovah before Heaven was created, do you agree?

Romans 11:35-36, Paul the apostle says Jesus came through Jehovah God his Father.

Yes as a Son He came through His Father.

Paul the apostle is not stupid.

Yes, I agreed but why are you stupid when reading Paul's letters? because the same Paul says Jesus is the Creator.

Your own Bible has exposed your delusion & FALSEHOOD.

Quote the Bible here.

Delete Romans 11:35-36 & have peace.

I'm not like Watchtower that has the mind of the Devil to delete or Add to God's Word.

No peace for the wicked and God is angry with the wicked EVERYDAY!

Janosky:
In your brain but not the holy scriptures.

Severe pain dey disturb this one

cornelboy:
In the OT God claimed that he created with his own hands

Good! So was God lying to the Old Testament people then?

at Hebrew 1:10, he claimed that his son created

Now you have accepted that Jesus Christ is a Creator because ONLY a Creator can CREATE.

Anyways, I know you will change mouth again.

but at Hebrew 1:2 and John 1:3 both John and the writer of the book of Hebrews understood that "God created everything through Jesus Christ".

No one disputes this.

But at least you believe God can't lie by claiming to create everything ALL BY HIMSELF.

In another words, God used Christ to create everything. Thus God is the creator.

But it was Christ who CREATED EVERYTHING

No place in the Bible did Jesus claim to be the creator.

But you said above that "at Hebrew 1:10, he claimed that his son created" can you see how confused people like you who follow doctrines of men can be?

Go and solve the puzzle yourself.

Solve the one you put yourself into first!

cornelboy:
Nope you misinterpreted.

Quote the verse I misinterpreted.

God is the creator.

I never deny that.

God created through Christ. That's it.

I never deny this either.

Though you left most of my points unaddressed which is the reason you can't come with any rebuttal.

Did God lie that He created everything ALL BY HIMSELF?

Did God lie that His VERY RIGHT HAND stretched the Universe?

Pawe12:
bt he campaigned against Jonathan and he spoke I'll of tb Joshua

He never though some pastors under him do.

trueking:
That is nothing, people must yarn rubbish, even Jesus Christ was accused of using demonic powers.
A man In your position must be ready to hear all manner of nonsense, and the painful part is some will come from so called men of God.

You're right but know that Jesus didn't just keep quiet but addressed the accusation!

So coming out like this isn't wrong sometimes.

At least you try to make sense this time around but anyways you'll always meet me at home for Bible study.

Janosky:
1 Corinthians 1:20,24 , Paul says Jesus is the person called "Wisdom."
Your Trinitarian mentors PROVEN that Proverbs 8:22 is correct, the person called Wisdom is a creature/ craftsman, verse 30.

1 Corin 1:20,24 didn't says Jesus is a PERSON CALLED WISDOM stop lying against the Holy scripture.

"However, to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. - NWT

Jesus is the POWER of God and The WISDOM of God says the Holy book.

Proverbs 8:27 & 1 Corinthians 8:6, Jesus Christ is NOT the Creator.

Jesus Christ is the Creator John 1:3, Colo 1:18

[b]Is Jesus Christ the first born a person?

DUBIOUS Trinitarians desperate to TWISTING the holy scriptures.

Jesus is a person, do you have problem with that?

Dubious worshipper of the lying 8 old men in Warwick twisting the Word of God.

Proverbs 8:27 dey your Bible?
Jesus Christ did NOT create heaven.

So it was not Jesus who created the Heaven.

So who created heaven?

He is NEVER the Creator.

But Jehovah USED HIM to CREATE ALL OTHER THINGS.

Is your brain paining you?

Carry your question to God , ask where his son lived before heaven was created.

Now I should carry my question to God simply because you know a created Being needs space to occupy

This is where you dull JWs failed.

God created both heaven and earth before creating the Angels, man & everything to occupy them because every normal people know things created need space to occupy. Thank God, God is not like dull JWs.

Nah Hebrews 1:9 dey give Emusan Sifia pains & WAILING

The pain must be too much for the worshiper of the lying 8 old men in Warwick

Jesus Christ get companions nau

Yet you still believe Jesus is the ONLY ONE CREATED DIRECTLY BY Jehovah. Is that not stupidity?

cornelboy:
It's not my fault that you don't understand it.

At least you see that I'm quoting the scripture and not another Book.

Jesus never claimed to be the creator.

But the scripture says He is the Creator.

cornelboy:
God has no beginnings. But Jesus has a beginning. He existed at a point.

Jesus never had a beginning! A Creator doesn't have a beginning.

Dangote produces cement, does it mean he's the one that operate the machines?

Then Dangote will never make a statement like "I Dangote operate the machines that produce my cement"

And if Dangote actually made such statement I believe even you will never deny that Dangote isn't the very one who produced the cement by himself.

God used Jesus as a tool to create everything.

Kindly quote the place you got this from.

God created Jesus first.

It means Jesus is the one who created Himself because John 1:3 says "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." - NWT

And God can't lie.

That's why he's the firstborn of creation and God's only begotten.

Yes He is the first born of all creation and not FIRST CREATED PERSON. The two statements aren't the same.

God created him directly.

A created Being needs space to occupy, where was Jesus living before God used Him to create Heaven?

1. Yet you believe Jesus has companions/fellow when He was the only one Created directly by God.

2. Yet you claimed He was PROMOTED, to which post again?

3. Yet you believe Jesus is still the same category of Angels.

So definitely if you believe this about Him, then you underrated Him for calling Him Angel because Jesus shouldn't be in the category of Angels at all.

cornelboy:
God brought things into existence through his son.

Smile...even when your organisation claimed Jesus is the one talking in Proverb 8

But read through Prov 8 and see where God Himself carrying out the Creation activities.

Jesus used God's resources.

So you means when Bible says "...I stretched out the heavens with My hands
And I ordained all their host." it was Jesus using the hands of God

You don't know why Watchtower wants you to believe that Jesus is an Angel.

cornelboy:
Hebrews 1:2
[2]And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.

God created the universe through the son, and you say "Jesus was God who created the universe"?

This is very laughable!

So was Jesus involved in CREATION OR NOT?

Now you're contradicting the Bible. That place is clear enough.
God was the creator who created the universe through his son. We can say God used his son, Jesus to create everything.

You're the very one who is contradicting yourself.

How can God USED Jesus and Jesus isn't the Creator?

Now, from Genesis creation account where does God used anybody?

God only SPOKE the scripture says IT WAS SO!

Proverbs 8: 22-36 talk about how God carried out the Creation By HIMSELF.

In Isaiah God says He created everything ALL BY HIMSELF.

Are all these verses lying?

It's like when you hire a construction company to build a building for you. You built that building through the construction company. It's still you cause you provided all the resources.

That's not the situation.

As An Engineer I have never seen where any Client claimed HE BUILDS THE STRUCTURE BY HIMSELF/HERSELF.

Many Bible verses show God created the universe ALL BY HIMSELF, God can't be lying!

Actually, according to the Hebrew verse where God appointed Jesus as his son, the event took place in heaven. Probably before the world was even created.

I know you will soon start changing mouth.

The event in Heb 1 is all about the coming of the Son INTO THE WORLD. come with another lie.

At verse 4 Hebrew chapter 1, Jesus is made more better than the angels, does that mean he's equal to God?

Remember He became part of creation.

Is He not the Only highest ranking Angel which is next to Jehovah according to Watchtower? So why must He be MADE BETTER THAN THE ANGELS again when He is already higher than ANY ANGELS?

Think think think 🤡🤡🤡🤡

I do! Do you?