₦airaland Forum

Courz:
Thank you jare. The guy blocked me before. I don't understand his presence in this thread. Goes to show he can never keep to his words to avoid me.

It's already proven that he can't keep to his word. I think he knows the damage such a thread like can cause to the organization, so he is afraid and the need for him coming here to divert attention is necessary.

Janosky:
"God created the universe NOT his son,Paul said.
Oga, continue to pretend you don't understand that statement.
Stop deceiving yourself.

And you're still dodging the question.

What was the Son doing when God is creating the Universe?

Jesus is the Creator because "All things came into existence through him(Jesus), and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." - John 1:3 NWT

Even NWT perverted translation couldn't touch this verse because the statement is too glaring to temper with.

Jesus is your Creator

Believer wey pretend as if Hebrew 1:2 is not in his Bible.

I've said, Heb 1:2 is also a confirmation that Jesus is the Creator I never denied it.

because Heb 1:2 says the UNIVERSE came into existence THROUGH JESUS.

"He is the beginning of God's creation, Job 40:19 & Revelation 3:14.
The same statement,the same context.
Same meaning-Job 40:19 & Revelation 3:14 refers to Creatures . Jesus is a creature

Still couldn't refute the meaning of Arché with any screenshot

This shows that you're just lying.

Jesus is the ORIGIN/SOURCE of all CREATIONS.

Supported by Heb 1:2 & John 1:3

Trinity doctrine is man made invention.

Proof that Arché doesn't mean ORIGIN first, nobody asked you to jump like kangaroo

if you get mind put Originator at Job 40:19.
KJV ,INT,NAS,your Trinitarian Bible translations didn't put "Source" @ Revelation 3:14.

Olodo Job was written in different language and where did Job talks about ORIGIN?

Many translator put Rev 3:14 this way:

CSB: “Write to the angel of the church in Laodicea: Thus says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the originator of God’s creation

CEB: “Write this to the angel of the church in Laodicea: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

CJB: “To the angel of the Messianic Community in Laodicea, write: ‘Here is the message from the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the Ruler of God’s creation:

CEV: This is what you must write to the angel of the church in Laodicea: I am the one called Amen! I am the faithful and true witness and the source of God's creation. Listen to what I say.

GW: “To the messenger of the church in Laodicea, write: The amen, the witness who is faithful and true, the source of God’s creation, says:

GNT: “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: “This is the message from the Amen, the faithful and true witness, who is the origin of all that God has created.

Do you need more Trinitarians translations?

Courz:
There is another Talk by Joseph Rutherford and the Venue of this talk was placed on a Banner to advertise to the public. The Venue was still a Masonic Lodge. I found it on a video sometime ago. I will try to find it and post it here.

Keep the fire burning.

That fake elder didn't block you?

His post above shows your thread is hitting the right place.

kingthreat:
The founder of the movement was known to be a freemason. That I have known for a long time.
But so far I have nothing against the JWs, neither do I see it as a cult. They are just a set of christians with different understandings of the doctrines of Christianity. To be part of God's kingdom, you have to believe that Jesus is the son of God and this they believe so I let them be.

When you say different understanding, we can further ask some serious questions.

1. Where does this DIFFERENT understanding originated from?

2. For which purpose does this DIFFERENT understanding come?

If you read the history of Watchtower, you'll understand those questions.

Despite the claim from their founding founder till present day leaders that they have been under Jehovah, Jesus & God's Holy Spirit direction.

Yet there have back and forth teachings from inception.

Is that how God works?

Definitely Not.

Janosky:
Is Greek word for SOURCE @ Revelation 3:14?
Definitely not.

But the meaning of Arché which your own translation translates as BEGINNING also means ORIGIN.

Thanks be to God you haven't refute that.

@ Mark 10:6 "the beginning of creation" ,according to Emusan meaning 'the Source of creation?'
Definitely not.
@ Mark 13:19,"the beginning of creation" ,according to Emusan meaning 'the Source of creation?'
Definitely not.
@ Mark 1:1,
@Mark 1:1, "the beginning of the gospel" ,according to Emusan meaning 'the Source/ruler/authority of the gospel?'
Definitely not.

Olodo...if every words are used like that, just imagine how chaotic the Bible will be.

@ Revelation 3:14,"the beginning of creation" ,according to Emusan meaning 'the Source/ruler/authority of creation?'
Definitely not.


Emusan, stop deceiving yourself

Can you imagine that.

Not according to me rather according to the same Bible concordance you always screenshot and the reason why you can't be so bold to provide the Interlinear verses screenshot of Rev 3:14.

The word translated as THE BEGINNING is Arché

Does it also mean ORIGIN/AUTHORITY?

Capital YES!

Refute this first with concrete evidence.

Janosky:
Did Paul say that?

Yes! Paul said that.

Definitely not.
Hebrew 1:2, Paul wrote:
"God created the Universe" NOT his son.

So answer my question, what did the Son do when God was creating the Universe?

Why are you dodging this question since?

Oga, go write your own Bible.
Stop deceiving yourself .

You have your own Bible through Watchtower

Jesus used this expression:
" the beginning of Creation" @ Mark 10:6,@ Mark 13:19 ,@ Revelation 3:14 to prove his Father Yahweh is the Creator/the Source @ Mark 10:6,@Mark 13:19 ,@ Revelation 3:14.

That's why I showed you the meaning of arché

ORIGIN/SOURCE

Jesus is the ORIGIN/SOURCE of ALL CREATION.

Meaning He is the Creator. John 1:3

Therefore, Jesus is the beginning of Creation.

SOURCES/ORIGIN of Creation

(just as Paul proved God created the Universe).

So what was the son doing when God was creating the Universe?

Oga, you have more knowledge than Jesus the beginning of the creation by God?
Definitely not.

Jesus Himself is the Wisdom of God.

Which your gods can never attain.

Answer my question if you get mind

achorladey:
Jesus Christ stated in Matthew 12: 37.....The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.”

Does the words of Watchtower acquits or condemn the establishment regarding the 1975 saga of the world coming to an end? Read what follows as explanation given over the doctrines related to 1975 and the massive disappointment and exit of members in the year that follows.....



Two points:

1. Alright God's word do not fail or deceive

2. The Governing Body teach their followers wrong premises and make their followers understand, believe and trust the Bible on wrong premises called spiritual food at the right time that fails, leads to disappointment and definitely meant to deceive to keep people captives of the religious organization.

This is not how God works throughout the history but people who'll allow themselves to be deceived will still be on earth.

On one thread about the failed rapture that was predicted last week, their online elder said and I quote "Hope no one will call this one Jehovah Witness"

Which means he knows only Jws capable of making false predictions yet still blindly praising them.

Janosky:

Hebrew 1:2 "God created the Universe"...
Meaning God Created the Universe NOT his Son.

Emusan stop deceiving yourself.
You can't CHANGE Hebrew 1:2.
Oga,go and write your own Bible.

You can't answer the simple question e get why

So, what did the Son do?

At least you agree that the Son was there when the UNIVERSE being created.

And if the Son was there when the UNIVERSE was created, can the Son be also be part of the Universe?

Let John 1:3 knock sense into that empty skull again.

Janosky:

@ John 1:1 ,@ Revelation 3:14,@ Mark 10:6, @ Mark 13:19,@Genesis 1:1, @ Genesis 49:3, "Arkhe" (Greek lexicon 746) "the Beginning" does NOT mean 'source'.
Biblehub screenshots evidences,
Examine the same Greek rendition of Mark 10:6,Mark 13:19,Revelation 3:14.

Emusan ,stop deceiving yourself.

The Greek word "Pege" (Greek lexicon 4077) & another Greek word "kephale" (Greek lexicon 2776) meaning "SOURCE" is NOT in any Greek manuscript of Revelation 3:14.
John the apostle says Jesus "is the beginning of the creation by God."

Emusan stop deceiving yourself.

No wonder you can't provide the screenshot of the Rev 3:14 Interlinear verses

Arché is the word translated and see the meaning below.

arché: Beginning, origin, ruler, authority, principality

Since Heb 1:2 already proved Jesus is not part of the UNIVERSE then it means the beginning (even when used) shouldn't be understood as part of Creation but the right rendition is ORIGIN, RULER OR AUTHORITY.

come with another lie.

Janosky:
God is your throne meaning your throne is given by God.

"God is your Strength" meaning your strength is given by God. (this popular expression we use almost everyday)..

Emusan stop deceiving yourself.

Still lying and defending NWT deception.

Janosky:

ALL firstborn in your bible are Creatures.
Firsborn of every creature means the first in the sense of being born or created.
Emusan , please use your Bible provide evidence ,which verse is Yahweh the God Almighty called firstborn?

Emusan stop deceiving yourself.

He can't provide just single screenshot

That is the evidence that you're lying.

Toredola:
This is a good trend for couples...it will help stabilise marriages

So it's intimacy that will help to stabilize marriage and not the understanding of marriage by both couples.

That's strange

Janosky:

Emusan ,stop deceiving yourself.
God is your throne means "your throne is given by God."

'God is your crown' is in your Bible too.

Can you imagine this broad day lie.

Just because NWT already gooff you want to change the narration.

Ko le work...

I won't change Hebrew 1:2
"God created the Universe through His son..." , Hebrew 1:2.

Good! Which means His Son is the Creator.

Or what will you call His Son?

Oga,go & REMOVE Hebrew 1:2
OR
continue WAILING & deceiving yourself.

I've told you several times that I don't have the evil mind to edit God's word like Watchtower did to support their doctrine.

In fact, Heb 1:2 is one of the Bible verses that proved Jesus to be the Creator because Jesus was before THE UNIVERSE. So, all creatures fall within the creation of the universe.

Janosky:
Because Jesus said @Revelation 3:14 , Jesus is "the creation by God. "

No translation has that, lying liar.

Rev 3:14 Jesus is the SOURCE OF ALL CREATION.

If you get mind, provide the screenshot from your darling Biblehub and other sources as you always do

As Paul added that Jesus is the firstborn of every creature by God.

Oga,go & REMOVE am

Firstborn never equates FIRST CREATED

I challenge you to provide the screenshot as well

gohf:
Did Moses record that in the beginning God first created the heavens and the earth or did you read that the first thing God created was the heavens and the earth?

I know it's hard for you emusan to be honest but try and answer honestly please

So it's Moses that recorded that "In the BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth" not that God inspired Moses to write that "In the BEGINNING God created the heavens and the Earth"

Genesis 1:1 is still very much alive in every version of the Bible and God who can't lie inspired Moses to write that, if anything was created before Heavens and the earth. God who can't would've inspired that.

Now turning the table around.

Are you saying God wasn't the one who inspired Moses to write that "In the BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth"?

2mch:
Being a part of an association is not the same as a Union.

So what is the full meaning of PENGASSAN?

Dhury:
when drivers and okada riders is crying in the hands of pharaoh aka union leaders no body Care, now is get to company level, soon general public will feel the heat.union operate as a terrorists, they claim to be fighting members welfare but non of their members that is benefiting after several illegals heavy taxations . Union in Nigeria is a definitions of monkey dey work baboon de chop

Exactly! The double standard in this country is too alarming.

The question is, can someone open a big Hospital or law firm without dealing with NMA or NBA?

If this isn't possible, how then can Dangote operate his refinery without the body in charge of it?

Westman001:
So who pays between these entities you mentioned. Is it the association or the company. Who should have a say on the staff policy?

I guess you couldn't refute my post you have to come up with question.

Both pay.

because the company is there to make progress through the staff while the association is there to protect the staff welfarism and professionalism.

Should we be clamoring for the disbandment of all ASSOCIATION in the country just as some people are doing for PENGASSAN now?

FOLYKAZE:
This is becoming messy.

Dangote should tread carefully. These guys are ready to fight dirty than stay out of business.

We just need to grow out of this Aluta, scatter everywhere mentally, if things doesn't work out way. Government should please disband NUPENG and their sister union PENGASSAN. You cannot just force private business hands to do what and whatever in their business. If you want to dictate, start up your own refinery, then you can control your staff remotely how you want. This madness has to just stop

Yet you people will be claiming to be educated.

So, I can wake up one day open a big Hospital and started receiving patients without having my Hospital workers to be part of Medical Association of Nigeria (MAN) or a random person can just wake up and open a law firm without being part of NBA.

This double standard is what will continue to hurt the growth of this Nation.

gohf:
exactly as proverbs 8 puts it, he was the first of God's creation, first work brought forth by God

But God who can't lie says "In the BEGINNING, God created the heavens and the earth"

Why will God say this if Jesus was the FIRST TO BE CREATED?

Janosky:
Hebrew 1:8 was copied from Psalms 45:6.
Your quote of Hebrew 1:8 is not correct .

You can't alter the original Psalms 45:6 screenshot evidence.

Revelation 3:14, Jesus is the creation by God.

No wonder you always ashamed to quote your Translation

"God is your throne forever and ever;..."

Watchtower has altered the Original Psalms 45:6 and you still agreed with them.

Jesus still The Creator of Heaven and Earth if you like hit your head on the wall it won't change God's word.

MaxInDHouse:
Since nobody knows the name of your church it's OK i just hope no one comes to say this one is a JW!

Guilty conscience at play here because you know JWs are famous for such predictions and failed.

Don't forget to click the block button

DeepSight:
You know what you did. You deliberately twisted even the little you brought.

I twisted something you read in plain English.

Wahooooo

Here it is again but let me highlight some key part

Ps 2:7 “The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son. Today I have become your Father.'"

Heb 1:5 - For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.”

DeepSight:
Lol. I will not waste my time further with you.

because I didn't provide scripture or what?

DeepSight:
Please specifically refer me to this -

"If you study scripture very well, The Father and Son begins the moment Jesus became part of Creation reason why the scripture says "...Today I have become your Father"

Verse?

Ps 2:7 “The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son. Today I have become your Father.'"

Heb 1:5 - For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.”

Read these verses objectively and see if Jesus had been the Son before coming to earth.

DeepSight:
Don't you think that is being clever by half?

No! That's the truth from the scripture.

Because what do thinks like "begotten by God" and "at the right hand side of God" mean?

Begotten by God of Jesus Christ happened on earth, that is why the scripture says "THIS DAY...I have begotten thee"

If you study scripture very well, The Father and Son begins the moment Jesus became part of Creation reason why the scripture says "...Today I have become your Father"

About sitting at the right hand of God is simply because Jesus mission hasn't ended, so it's part of when Jesus became part of Creation.

In fact, one of the verses you posted emphasized on this when it says “Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.” - 1 Corin 15:28

Pay attention to the @underlined.

Why must God be ALL IN ALL not until the Son is subjected to the Father?

This simply means, until the mission of the Son is complete

These are outside creation and yet they show that he is NOT GOD.

No! They're absolutely when He became part of the Creation.

DeepSight:
What does that conclude please.

It means all the 20 instances you gave fall to the category of when Jesus became part of the Creation.

DeepSight:
Well here they are. I have reposted them several times since I first listed them on this board 12 years ago. Can you go at them one by one - rather than do what most people do by simply broadly waving them aside and proceeding to cite verses they think suport the deity of Christ.

-----------------------



D1 - I Tim. 2:5: - For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus Christ”


D2 - John 14:28 – “I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I”.


D3 - I Cor. 11:3 - “But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God “


D4 - Eph. 1:15 - 17. - “15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him”


D5 - I Pet 1:3 - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"


D6 - Mark 10:18 - “So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”


D7 - I Cor. 15:28 - “Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.”


D8 - John 15:1 – 10:“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;[a] and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me."

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 “By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. 9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.


D9 - John 20:17 – “Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”


D 10 - John 17:1 - 8 – “1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 “as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 “I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 “And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 “Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 “For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me."


D 11 - Mark 13:32 - “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”


D12 - Acts 2:22 – 24 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 “Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken[b] by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 “whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.


D13 - Luke 22:41 - 42 – “41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and prayed, 42saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” (The Prayer in Gethsemane).


D14 - John 8:40 - “But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.”


D15 - Luke 23:32 - 34 – “There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”


D16 - Matt 21:33 – 42 “33 Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 “Now when vintage–time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 “And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another.

36 “Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 “Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 “But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 “So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’

(The Parable of the Vineyard)


D17 - Matt 27:45 – 46 “45 Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”


D18 – Mark 16:19 – “So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.” [And all other scripture which refers to Christ as sitting at the Right Hand Side of God, including Psalm 110:1, and all similar scripture in the Book of Revelation].


D19 - John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. [Only Begotten Son - "Monogenes" - and all other verses in scripture where the term "monogenes" i.e: "only begotten" is used].


D20 - Deuteronomy 6:4 - "Hear o Isreal, the Lord our God, the Lord is One."


cc:

Tctrills
Boomark

Even though this has been addressed many times both here and other places what I want to point out is:

Bible speaks sparingly about Jesus before becoming part of Creation and majorly after became part of Creation.

The ability to distinguish this from the HOLY Scripture already solved this.

Image123:
You refused my good advice.

You're not in position to give advice.

i asked you to show me where i sang and where i called, you couldn't.

You're singing his praises now even on with this post and you see the attached screenshot where you boldly called him thief.

Still i have graciously accepted on my general mindset about politicians.

The general mindset came because you want to save face.

When you called him thief, you didn't generalized it.

There's nothing to deny or accept, it's your issue not mine.

Of course, it isn't an issue for you because the conscience is dead

President Bola Tinubu is a performer and the best president Nigeria has ever had. That's my opinion and choice, if you are not happy about it, read a book. Get well soon.

Thank God it's your opinion and not on any metrics.

Even Devil has a choice!

Image123:
A two time governor of Rivers state and minister of the Federal Republic cannot afford a house? Feed us intelligently na, abegggg. All these gist is mere distraction.

Another one!

How much was Wike salary for the whole 8 years that will make him buy a property worthy $1,000,000 IN CASH?

Kai...

Image123:
i said my default mindset, meaning my history and posts go in the direction. If you or anyone says all politicians are thieves, fine. It's not something i want to defend, what i usually defend is the performance, not the sainthood of politicians.

You keep jumping around and this is very bad.

You're the one who said ALL POLITICIANS ARE THIEVES not me.

You're the one who later said MOST POLITICIANS ARE THIEVES not me.

The reason I quoted you on this thread was very simple, you sang the praises of someone you once boldly called THIEF even when this thread has nothing to do with Tinubu.

At first you wanted to deny it but only to come for saving face by saying "ALL POLITICIANS ARE THIEVES"

They are not pastors or the church. i will generally and easily agree with you on that line, i am not a court or efcc.
Talk performance or go read a Bible verse.

Since you're not a court or EFCC, how do you know those politicians are thieves and can you name those who the court or EFCC had declared as thieves?

Let me reiterate, I never claimed any politician is a pastor or church.

My point on this thread is, how do you start singing the praises of someone you once boldly called THIEF?

You're the one who knows the reason of bringing RELIGION OR SAINTHOOD into this when I never mentioned anything related to that.

Image123:
i have always maintained that politicians are thieves. i have always had that mindset, it didn't come up because of you or Tinubu. My default mindset, which hasn't been proven wrong, is that politics is a dirty game and that most politicians are either thieves or occultic. The landscape has changed slightly but i stick with my general view. i will continuously take a working thief over a saint acting thief that has nothing to offer. It is not my fault that that hurts and haunts you. Take my advice and stick to religious discuss.

See how you keep changing mouth.

From ALL POLITICIANS are thieves to MOST POLITICIANS thieves and even occultic.

I love the second @underlined.

In a nutshell, you agree you're supporting and singing the praises of thieves.