₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:

I know your blood is always hot whenever your lies being exposed but you know what? I won't stop giving you Bible study until you're ready to receive sense!

I've provided all the Bible verses you cited against John 20:31, so let's examine them and see if there's anyone that matched John 20:31 or if they talk about group or organization.

Janosky:
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9,Will Satan and his agents receive everlasting life?

"He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 2 Thess 1:8-9

This verse never talk about Satan or his agents believing in CHRIST so definitely they can't have everlasting life but John 20:31 says "But these are written that you may believe[a] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31

So it's by believing in Jesus name that we will have life not in ANY ORGANIZATION/GROUP

Emusan,Did John 20:31 say believers of Trinity?

No!

Did John 20:31 say believers of organization or group?

Las las....
Only JEHOVAH'S people Isaiah 43:10,21,
2 Chronicles 7:14, John 9:4 & Acts 3:13 are the believers of John 20:17,31

If this is true then 2 Chronicles 7:14 says "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land." 2 chro 7:14

So your organization are still involved in wickedness

Other Bible verses you cited are:

Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me....the people I formed for myself that they may proclaim my praise.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

John 20:31 But these are written that you may believe[a] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

None of the verses above ever claimed ONLY the people chosen by God will believe, in fact that will outrightly negate John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

I guess you know the meaning of WHOEVER

Lemme rewrite John 3:16 to suit JWs doctrine

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that my chosen people/group/organization will believe in him and shall not perish but have eternal life."

Emusan,3 deities Polytheists, receive SENSE
[/b].

The Bible study you've received tonight will go a long way in helping your dull skull.

Janosky:
Your Stupidity is luminous.
Is Isaiah 43:10,21(ASV/Living Bible), John 9:4,
2 Chronicles 7:14 & Acts 3:13 in your own Bible written at Brooklyn?

Neither Isaiah 43:10,21, 2 Chronicles 7:14, John 9:4 & Acts 3:13 ever say "By believing in any organization/group we will have LIFE"

I challenge you to quote where such statement is mentioned on those verses you cited

Las Las, John 20:31 is what we need as a believer.

You must receive sense by fire by force!

Janosky:
2 Chronicles 7:14 & Acts15:14, JEHOVAH's organized people, His Organization.
The "WE" of John 9:4 & Acts 3:13 includes Abraham, Isaac,Jacob, Jesus Christ and the disciples, plus JEHOVAH's servants today, Isaiah 43:10,21(ASV/Living Bible).


[b]Will the People/Group bearing JEHOVAH'S name @Isaiah 43:10,21(ASV/Living Bible), John 9:4, 2 Chronicles 7:14 & Acts 3:13 have everlasting life?
Is Satan and his agents bearing JEHOVAH'S name?

To defend his 8 god of men in Brooklyn, tons of verses must be added

But initially it was just John 20:31

It's NOT my problem that you 3 deities Polytheists can NOT understand the holy scriptures of Isaiah 43:10,21 (ASV/Living Bible) etc.

But you follower of pagan master didn't remember Isaiah 43:10,21 before you drawn your point in John 20:31

I know he must change tune because he knows no organization or group was mentioned in John 20:31

MaxInDHouse:
Oh Emusan thank you!

You're welcome Maxi

MaxInDHouse:
Oh thank you Emusan!

Smile....at least you know a terrorist presented an award to a member of your family, the funny thing is even your organization published it on their website as a great achievement

MaxInDHouse:
In 2017 President Vladimir Putin declared the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses a terrorist group in his country but today the truth has prevailed. John 8:32
So who is the real terrorist, is it the group that will never raise a weapon against their fellowman or Vladimir Putin who is now terrorizing a whole nation (Ukraine)?

But the same Putin presented an award of best parenting to a Jehovah witness family, which you shared on this forum

Should I remind you in case you've forgotten?

Janosky:
King James Version Bible.
John 20:31: But these are written, that you may "believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God; and by believing you may have life through his name".

Oga, according to your Bible Gospel of John 20:31, do you now see that Trinity is nonsensical GIBBERISH?

But you won't remember this same John 20:31 whenever you enter your hall and you're being taught that without belonging to watchtower organization Armageddon is your potion

Now, to you Janosky, according to John 20:31 are we supposed to believe in any other things or belong to a group/organization before we have life?

Let's hear from the follower of pagan worshippers in Brooklyn

cornelboy:
Lol I don't know, you seem to reason like a toddler.

Thanks for that!

Jesus never contradicted him and I'm not in confusion but you are the one that lacks knowledge.

But the evidences are abound in this thread

You sound like a person with small brain, a toddler.

Thanks once again!

Is there any verses in the scriptures that says beings in heaven can't come to earth?

How does this relate to my post?

You don't believe Jesus is coming back to earth in his glory?

Jesus coming again

Hasn't he come in 1914 according to your organization?

1 Thessalonians 4:16
[16]For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died will rise from their graves.

Your organization said this has happened in 1914.

Or do you think is a lie?

It's obvious you don't know what you are saying.

When there's no correlation between my post and your respond here!

According to JWs or according to the Bible?

According to Jws because Jesus presented the same body to His disciples.

Adam the first man was flesh and blood.
Everyone that would remain on earth will be flesh and blood, physical beings.

Then, won't Kingdom of God also be on earth?

If flesh and blood can't inherit kingdom of God, how come the same flesh and blood will leave under the kingdom of God on earth?

Like I said earlier, you don't know what that verse is talking about.

They can't only spirit beings live in heaven.

But God's kingdom will also be on earth.

Judge yourself, is Jesus equal to his Father?

Smile.....your confusion is growing bigger, you asked for the scripture where Jesus said to be equal with God, I provided the verse!

You couldn't say anything about the verse but jumping from pillar to post

Present them here let's examine it

You can search for them online

Can you quote it from any of watchtower articles or JW materials?

Here, you have it

Extracted from the article below

His Life as a Man

The second stage of Jesus’ life course began when God sent his Son to the earth. Jehovah did this by miraculously transferring the life of Jesus from heaven to the womb of a faithful Jewish virgin named Mary.

Here the article says "The LIFE" of Jesus is what Jehovah transferred to Mary's womb.

The questions now are!
1. Was THE LIFE a whole being/person of the Son
2. If it's just LIFE, what happened to the spiritual body where the LIFE was taken?

I de here

We start with the above point.

cornelboy:
Jesus contradicted himself when he said flesh and blood can't enter the kingdom of heaven Abi?

Jesus never contradicted Himself rather you're the one in confusion.

If Flesh and Blood can't enter the kingdom of heaven, how come the same kingdom will come to restore peace on earth where FLESH AND BLOOD will live?

It's evident you don't know what that verse is talking about.

Jesus was indisputably transformed to spirit being when ascending into heaven.

The same Jesus that his body can't be found according to Jws

Only the little flock are going to be with Jesus in his kingdom. The rest of the righteous one will live forever on...earth

So, the rest of the righteous ones that will live forever on earth UNDER KINGDOM OF HEAVEN will be what

a) Spirit beings
b) Flesh and blood

God's kingdom will of course come to restore peace to earth. It will defeat human imperfect government and fufil the will of JEHOVAH for earth.

That means Flesh and blood will surely enter God's Kingdom

Is Jesus everything he's naturally or God made him to be so?
Where did he get the authority he has?
Who gave him his great name?
Can the son be greater than the Father?
Who appointed him to be the Messiah?
If Jesus didn't humble himself and claimed equality then he wouldn't be where he's today.
But the perfect Jesus humbled himself because he aware everything he got today was from the Father

Jesus will never misbehave like Satan the devil did or any other imperfect humans.

You asked for a Bible verse where Jesus was said to be equal with God, I provided that, you couldn't counter them verse but jumping from pillar to post.

JWs don't believe anything not based on the Bible.

Simply because you never know much about their doctrines.

Wait where did you get this? Is it some kind of myth?

That's the the teaching of your beloved organization, it choke you

Alright I'm willing to understand

Let's go gradually then...

cornelboy:
Pls can you explain "Man" better cos flesh and blood can't enter the kingdom of heaven.
Only spirit beings are in heaven.

Resurrected Man is flesh and bone with power as Jesus proved to His disciples

Luke 24:39 "Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

Besides, that verse is talking about this present sinful nature of ours, if not it'll also contradict JWs doctrine of living forever on paradise earth.

Abi God's kingdom won't extend to paradise earth again?

Support your claim that he was equal with the Father before he became flesh with Bible verses.

Let me just drop this one first

CEV: Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.

ERV: He was like God in every way, but he did not think that his being equal with God was something to use for his own benefit.

ICB: Christ himself was like God in everything. He was equal with God. But he did not think that being equal with God was something to be held on to.

MSG: He had equal status with God but didn’t think so much of himself that he had to cling to the advantages of that status no matter what.

NLV: Jesus has always been as God is. But He did not hold to His rights as God.

OJB: Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature, Yn 1:1-2; 17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5] Phil 2:6

I have to bring in different translations so that you can fully understand what that verse is talking about.

Why would Jesus be equal with his Father from the beginning and later lost his equality forever?

Where did you read it from that He lost the equality?

Did he offend his Father or he was never equal with his GOD and Father?

This question should have been directed to you JWs that claimed, Jehovah killed his son in heaven and created another being that later became the killed Son.

You won't understand this now until we go further on this thread.

cornelboy:
What about after Jesus ascension to heaven, did he become equal to God the Father?

Jesus is still Man in heaven until He finished His mission and handed over to the Father "so that God will be ALL IN ALL" 1 Corinthians 15:28

Or has he been anytime equal to the Father?

Yes before He became flesh.

And He was not known as Jesus Christ!

taylorwatson:
Correct grammar is your crucial to speaking English assuredly and surely. Knowing your grammar will help you avoid errors that make your English complete bizarre to natural speakers. https://www.divinedesignupholstery.com/

Very correct!

cornelboy:
So who is greater Jesus or GOD the Father or are they both equal?

John 14:28
[28]Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am.

Answer to your question is just a straight forward.

God the Father is greater than the Man Jesus as you rightly quoted from that scripture.

Any more questions?

Kobojunkie:
Instead, submission is a result of God's curse on marriage in Genesis 3 vs 16,

This is pure lie against scripture and God, Gen 3vs16 was never about submission of a woman to her husband.

and it is from that curse, and all the others in in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 that Jesus Christ came to redeem us from.

If this assertion is true, does your wife gave birth to your child(ren) in pain?

Do you still labor before you eat?

Do you eat torn that earth produced?

These are the results of Genesis curse.

Definitely, you must have misinterpreted and misunderstood those verses.

cornelboy:
Pls who's Jesus Christ,

Jesus is the man who died for the sins of the whole world.

who's God?

God is the Supreme Being: The Creator of Heavens and Earth.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
[9]For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us.

Is it clear to you now?

Janosky:
So you call your 2nd deity gate man.
Do you obey your gate man or your gate man obeys you?

Stupidity too much for this public forum.

Your bigotry didn't allow you to see that you're quoting your fellow JWs

The last part of your post really true about you people

MaxInDHouse:
Thanks for lying publicly!

You're welcome for accepting the lie publicly

MaxInDHouse:
So what do you know about freemason?

I know your founder Charles Taze Russell is a Freemason

budaatum:
First, a simple research of the ops so called evidence shows its spurious second hand information that has been repeatedly debunked, as you'd find if you do a titsy bit of unbiased searching, which is to be expected of the intelligent who use their own minds instead of stupidly believing whatever suits their bias.

For evidence to be spurious and debunked, means such info will be erased from it's origin but you yourself accept the use of Masonic symbols. So the question a rational mind will ask is, why using such symbol if you have nothing to do with them?

Only few people will not deny their involvement with secret cult when they're confronted.

Secondly, if 20% of JWs are Masons, Emusan, they'd take over the entire JW! In fact, just 3% of Masons will take over the entire JW organisation and everyone outside would know of it because JW won't be the JW you know.

The reason I pointed you to this is to show you that, the OP doesn't refer to the entire JWs, so I'm still asking you, how come you were able to link the narration to the entire JWs?

JW to Freemasonry, is like, Islam to Oyedepo. And while I'm not certain Oyedepo might not one day preach from the Quran or the entire JW top body promote Freemason for that matter, I doubt very much that Masons would ever preach JW as it just completely opposes Freemasonry.

Can Oyedepo be a Freemason? According to you, the answer is Yes!

So based on what you said and what I understand from the op, some JWs might be Freemason.

Or are you trying to rule out that NO JWs is a Freemason?

Freemasonry is an organisation that grew out of the organising of builders of buildings that could take up to 500 years or more, so you might perhaps see how some might adopt some of its ideas into organising their organisations regardless of your god, which is why they adopt GADU to cover everyone. Masons will tell you the work is plenty and the builders are few so it would be stupid to exclude anyone who can build just because they turn East and you turn West, while JWs requires ready to die loyalty to the Tower.

We all know but the questions are, does Freemason make up an individual? Yes!

Can an individual JWs be a Freemason, the answer is Yes!

Which is the point you also agree with and what I thought is the op POV.

Anyway. There is a reason you and I discuss as little as we do despite us both being very active on here, but God made you quote buda so much in this thread for rectification. Amen. As to "having my free time here", please accept buda's sincerest encouragement to enjoy your free time.

Ok

budaatum:
Simply by showing you how ignorant he is about Freemasonry, which would not be the case if he were a member.

I don't think he claimed ordinary JWs like MaxinDHouse is a member of Freemason, in fact, Courz made a statement at the second page of this thread that an average JWs aren't Freemason but about 20% are and the OP specifically stated that some Governing Body are which is very clear that these are about individuals.

So what I don't get in this whole thing is how you Budaatum change the narration to the WHOLE BODY

Emusan, you've tired me with this and I have much better things to do with my time and resources. Sorry if I leave you to it.

Sorry for that, just having my free time here

budaatum:
The JW founders,

To my best knowledge, there is only one founder which is Russell

Emusan, which can be a few individuals and is definitely not the whole body

Now, you're talking! That's what the op implied.

as MaxInDHouse is making you aware

How?

because if it meant the whole JW body, he'd be a Mason too which he obviously isn't!

Then can you see you're just beating around the bush?

Also, the op specifically mentioned the governing body which means, he didn't mean the whole body, so why would you Budaatum change the narration to the whole body?

Fact is, despite the symbols, one can't help note how utterly ignorant "they" JWs are about Freemasonry.

At least you can't deny the symbols but just so unfortunate that you think a full grown up men putting on different symbols of a cult and they don't know exactly what they're doing.

That will be the height of dishonesty on your part.

budaatum:
They used symbols that Freemasons also use, but that does not mean a "tie", and anyone who knows about Freemasons would easily know no tie exists.

Who are the "THEY" in your post?

The whole JWs body or some individuals

As for good English, do I need to tell you to go back to school to be a "good student of English", since you claimed the op was asking "Are Jehovah witness tied to Freemasons", or are you now just being dishonest in claiming the op meant individuals?

If you ask me to go back to school, there's no offense in that.

If the OP doesn't mean individual, he won't post videos or pictures of individuals who are linked to Freemasons.

Or can you show us where the op post a video or picture that depicts the WHOLE OF JWS as a Freemason?

budaatum:
Are you now claiming the op's subject matter is no more "Are Jehovah witness tied to Freemasons", which is what the op has been trying to convince you of in every post here, Emusan?

The subject matter still remains the same which I've clarified above.

In fact, is that not what you are here claiming,

I don't understand what you mean by I am here claiming something because I don't know what I've claimed here.

or is it your claim that individual JWs may be Freemasons

I didn't claim anything here but just explaining what the OP posts are all about which I think you misunderstood him.

So my point is according to the OP some individuals especially key people in JWs are Freemason not the WHOLE of JWs

and there's really no tie between the association's?

I don't understand you here!

budaatum:
Yes, you are missing quite a lot here, and you are missing it intentionally, which is just dishonest of you!

Well if you see it that way

If a JW is a freemason, would you therefore claim "Jehovah witness tied to Freemasons", as you claimed the op was asking as his subject matter?

I won't! But I think the op choice of word is because SOME SO CALLED GOVERNING BODY and the founder have something to do with Freemason and spread throughout the OP posts, only dishonest person won't see that from his posts.

Truth is the op is tying JWs to Freemasons, and "tied" implies much more than "a JWs can be a Freemason", and in fact, a JW touting a tie with Freemason would likely be de-JWed, and a Mason wouldn't do religion for risk of being deFreemasoned.

Well if that's how you understand the OP but a good student of English will beg to differ.

Now, how I wish you two could continue this without mentioning buda so many times in your posts!

Well he brought you into this not me.

budaatum:
If you go through the ops posts you'd see he's making connections about more than individuals where none exist

I didn't see that from the OP, the OP post are about some individuals of JWs

and even lies that connections exist in videos that show no connection whatsoever.

When you didn't even watch the video.

Connection of individuals or the whole JWs?

In fact, JW and Freemasonry ideologically oppose each other, and going by what I'm learning about JWs, required loyalty to JW would stop a JW being a Mason.

This is just entirely different from the op point of view.

But I think I understand what you are doing here.

No! You don't!

It suits you to think JW and Freemasonry are in cahoots.

If I do, I'll be post link or videos of that which I didn't. When I quoted MaxinDHouse, it's not about JWs and Freemason but the way he used the word "Christian". So stop assuming!

Bet they both worship Baphomet too, according to you.

You can point to where I say this.

Also the OP point is on individual not the whole JWs

budaatum:
Emusan, with all due respect, I do not expect nor want you to believe me. Just go find out about Freemasons yourself and see if JW could possibly qualify to be a lodge.

The OP never said JWS as a BODY but some individuals within the organization, why did you misconstrue OP point here?

That's not to say individual members can't be Freemasons,

But this is what the OP is emphasizing on.

mind, just JW likes to have more control over their members than the freedom of mind required to be a mason.

I can't see where the OP ever says the whole JWs are Freemason, how did you arrive at that?

You put JWs in the Garden of Eden and they'd never ever eat the fruits of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which is the only fruit masons will eat in the same garden because ignorance does not teach one to be enter an apprenticship to become a masonry.

With what I understand from your post and that of the OP, you didn't deny a JWs can be a Freemason neither do the OP claiming ALL JWS are Freemasons which means to some extent if not all the OP assertion here might be correct.

Or am I missing something here?

MaxInDHouse:
At last you proved to be the fool that you've always been!

Thanks for that!

If anyone can be a freemason then it means freemason is not the property of any religion so any religionist may choose to join the freemason (independently of his religion)

So where did the OP say Freemasons is the property of Jehovah witness?

so budaatum is saying the OP shouldn't tie that cult to any specific religion because it's a group that anyone can join.

It's evident your lack simple comprehension, the OP didn't say Freemasons belong to Jws

"tie to"
tie (one) to (something)
To connect or associate one with some situation, event, or circumstance.
The investigators have uncovered paperwork that ties the suspect to the money laundering scheme.

I think the op point here is INDIVIDUAL JWS with Freemason which is evident from all his posts.

Do you get it now?

Do you understand basic English?

budaatum:
budaatum does not need to spend time "dismissing all the evidences the OP put forth" because anyone with a brain will easily find through a simple search that the op is posting unverified lies that have already been debunked and dismissed many times.

The best you can do is to provide the source where the OP unverified lies are debunked and dismissed.

You just don't say that without a link like how the op did.

budaatum:
And the answer is, JWs are insufficiently knowledgeable to be tied to Freemasons.

Says you the founder of Freemasons

But if you happen to know different do please inform us.

The OP already did that

MaxInDHouse:
Now you're back on track, if you don't know anything about freemason how can you know if the OP and his friend are just making blind comparisons?

Stop attaching "intelligence" to your officer because it doesn't worth it

I didn't say I don't know anything about Freemasons but I'm not here for Freemasons, how is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Fake intelligent officer
It's probably you're dismissed from your military work because your intelligence is too low for such profession

That's where budaatum's comments comes in.
You don't know anything about freemason so you need someone who is neutral to shed light on the subject otherwise it's whatever the OP and his cohorts spew that you'll swallow hook line and sinker!

I'm just laughing at your ignorance about Budaatum post, Budaatum post isn't dismissing all the evidences the OP put forth in fact, carefully examine Budaatum statement you'll see where he said "That is however not to say individual JWs can not be Freemasons, but we don't do religion in the Lodge."

If you understand this statement very well, then you won't be using Budaatum as your yardstick.

Learn....

MaxInDHouse:
OK you're not here to know about freemason but initially you said:

Where did you see KNOW in my post

You can't just stop displaying this character of your father the devil

What matter exactly?

I know you lack simple comprehension and need to be spoonfeed.

Now we're back to my early post.
The subject matter is "Are Jehovah witness tied to Freemasons?"