₦airaland Forum

davien:
Weren't they from the same Judaic cults?

So which cult do you belong to?

tartar9:
how can light(Islam) and darkness(xtianity) mix

And the evidence of the true light and darkness can be seen in the world today.

Please where was Islam ever claimed to be light? last time I check Jesus Himself said He is the LIGHT of the world.

tiwasiaife:
please what's the email address one can send this application. I got a reply that my application could not be delivered. and am using yahoo mail. don't really know if I should change to gmail

the email address is: youth@africa-union.org
I used yahoo too and mine went successfully.

VICKYE:
You need to fill it in the system. I have just finished mine. On the check Boxes, you need to delete them & put bullet there. For the Sex, I wrote MALE (As putting bullet will alter the numbers). Good luck!

I'm totally not in support with this your idea you know why? The form had been designed why will you redesigned it yourself

Please anyone who is facing the challenge on filling the form especially those check boxes should get a system with Microsoft 2010 installed on it.

Using Microsoft 2010 will allow you to click on those check boxes and they will automatically fill with [X].

See screenshot below.

Eugenedimgba:
The governors knew before now that bitumen made road gives room for stealing.A concrete made road would affordable such room to continually steal funds in guise of road repairs.

Sorry bro, this your statement lacks professionalism.
Mr. Dangote's statement sounds more like a business man not as a professional because both bituminous and concrete paved roads must meet certain criteria before giving the thought of choice to choose i.e most bituminous road won't last long in Lagos and some South South states as these areas are waterside whereas bituminous road will favour Northern region.

Again, in terms of the materials use in the construction of those roads needs to be put into consideration as well for instance concrete paved roads need tons of sharp sand and imaging you need to construct a 20-25km road in the north where sharp sand is not too common that means you need to be borrowing sharp sand somewhere else.

Lastly, both bituminous and concrete paved roads have their own advantages and disadvantages which can never be over emphasized. Besides, a dishonest politician can still use the avenue of concrete paved road to steal.

Kelklein:
who knows how I can get a passport within 5 days!

I know where you can get it in a day but that'll be if and only if you reside in Abuja.

omowolewa:
If the likes of JBerger, RCC, SCC, Dantata are closing sites, the impact on the masses would be great on Human Capital Index. One of the yardsticks of measuring government performance.

Civil servant, construction worker, Banks/Bankers are all medium of re distributing money from Government to citizen. With this 'Sacky' generation. It won't be long before Nigerian start feeling the heat.

Most contractors had even borrowed money to finance the project. Now they can't pay both principal and interests. The banks are threatening to publish their name as bad debtor. After sacking staff the next stage is to sell off their assets and the pack off.

PMB act fast

My Brother you hit the nail on the head.

In late July this year my company (Construction) laid off 2/3 of her staff, now they want to do worst by closing down their sites.

I believe anyone who voted for President Muhammad Buhari and being affected by this current downside of economy won't be happy. The ironic part of it was that majority who have not seen this problem are neither affected by it.

dolphinheart:
Pls treat the abo wa ba part so we can continue our bible based discussion.

This is the point, before I address that. You also address the part that deals with this thread or didn't I raise some points there? habaaa

if you feel the organization does nothing good. Say it .
If you feel they do something good, let's hear the good things.

NOTHING GOOD (Singular) but GOOD THINGS (Plural)
You don't want to hear the lie only the good things but na lie you must hear it.
I have done so, now what do you have to say? I repeat (Pastor Russell and his follower did TEACH THE WORSHIP OF Jesus CHRIST BASED ON SCRIPTURE, true or false?).

About good thing, their lies help me know more about scriptures and the organization.

I may soon stop replying you because I hate HYPOCRITE.

dolphinheart:
So I'm right to say those words where were never used in the scriptures.
When we use words in our explanations that have different meaning to one used in the scriptures , it creates confusion.
Now to anointed christians :
Jesus footstep followers who have been spirit begotten and anointed with holy spirit can be spoken of as anointed ones.

"Now he which stablisheth us
with you in Christ, and hath
anointed us, is God;- 2Co 1:21

This ones("us" are annointed
This "us" are christians
Thus I can say those people being reffered to in that verse are " annointed Christians".

"But the anointing which ye
have received of him abideth
in you, and ye need not that
any man teach you: but as the
same anointing teacheth you
of all things, and is truth, and is. no lie, and even as it hath
taught you, ye shall abide in
him." -1Jo 2:27

[size=14pt]So I can personaly explain that those who where Anointed where also called christians and can thus be called "anointed christians " by me.[/size]
Bet you hear when some people say "touch not my anointed " when reffering to their church leaders . Are the church leaders not christians?

See the reason why I said I HATE HYPOCRITE, you accuse me of USING the word that was not used DIRECTLY in the scripture, now I challenge you to give use where the word ANNOINTED CHRISTIANS was DIRECTLY used in the scripture but what we got is [b]BRINGING MANY VERSES to prove it.

Now @bold-You have to PERSONALLY explained and AGREE WITH THE USE OF ANNOINTED CHRISTIANS not that the word as you used it CAN BE FOUND the scripture. This is HYPOCRITE in its highest form.

This you can't do with "took on flesh" as the meaning of "took on flesh" is different from "became flesh".

How do you know I can't, when you first attack strawman with false accusation and later asking me to explain myself.

This is how an hypocrite behaves, when you first saw the word TOOK ON FLESH your own is to ask "can you explain what you mean by TOOK ON FLESH?" Then if I fail to do so, you can then spew all the thrash you've been saying since.

I never claimed that my word was used DIRECTLY IN THE SCRIPTURE nor I can't explain what I mean by TOOK ON FLESH.

If something like this repeat itself I won't reply you any more because if I do I might say what I shouldn't have said.

I did not hammer on need of direct bible quotation, I only wanted to use that question to get things straight , so that others would not have use words that have a different meaning in explaining.
The word u used have different meaning from "became flesh", so I had to first made it clear that the words "took on flesh" is not in the scriptures.

Again, did I say MY USE OF TOOK ON FLESH was based on John 1:14 I see this as pure nonsense I've repeated myself many time that my use of that WORD WAS NOT ON ANY SCRIPTURE but just to EXPLAIN (which you did in above) how Jesus was not part of CREATION.

In fact you keep boiling my anger.
Like I said, the reason why you're doing this is because you've wrongfully thought I TWISTED John 1:14 with that my statement, which you're totally missed it now you're trying to justify your wrong THOUGHT by bringing up baseless point.

The issue on exact bible words are not to make you look wrong, but to clear [size=14pt]some bible phrases[/size] and let us know that the words we use, even though it is not present in the scriptures, It must has direct meaning with the ones used in the scritures and also tells the same thing as the scriptures is telling us.

@bold-The ANNOINTED CHRISTIANS you used it is bible phrase or how people come with about it?
Who took you that TOOK ON FLESH doesn't have a direct meaning as being used in the scripture?
Did you ask me to explain what I mean by that before you start your HYPOCRITICAL behavior?

I need it, it will help me to understand you better so can you post it again and tell us how the word became flesh?

It's what they call using medicine after death, you should've come low like this in your first post but since you have to find a way to cover up how you wrongfully READ MY MIND at first it has lead you to this now.

Good, I now understand that you where explaining how "jesus was not part of creation before his life on earth".
Can you now explain what the scripture meant by the "word became flesh"?

I did not ask you jesus nature before coming to earth .

You said : jesus came to earth not with his flesh?

I asked : so what did jesus come to earth with?

You said : with his divine nature.

That's y I said : So Jesus came to earth with his divine nature and no longer took the form of men again?

Cus john 1:14 says - The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of
the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
The bible also explains that jesus completely "emptied himself and took the form of men"
To me this explains that jesus came to earth not with a divine nature, but as flesh . This is why there was an actual conception in the womb of Mary.

Thank you for quoting this scripture which boldly shows how hypocritical you are! The verse says "...TOOK THE FORM OF MEN does this relate with my previous word TOOK ON FLESH?

Yet you will accusing someone of CUTTING part.
Did you read the full part that says Jesus emptied himself
Please which version did you read that USED COMPLETELY?

Those episodes are backed up with scriptural quotes . one wonders why you refuse to comment on them .

And you have to ignore those scriptures I quoted without commenting on them but you're still wondered why I couldn't comment on your own too

Read 1 cor 15: 45 - 49
"So it is written: “The first
man Adam became a living
being” f ; the last Adam, a life-
giving spirit. 46 The spiritual
did not come first, but the
natural, and after that the
spiritual. 47 The first man was
of the dust of the earth; the
second man is of heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so
are those who are of the earth;
and as is the heavenly man,
so also are those who are of
heaven. 49 And just as we
have borne the image of the
earthly man, so shall we g
bear the image of the
heavenly man."

Here jesus is presently a life giving spirit, [size=14pt]not flesh.
Here , the man , heavenly man is as those who are of heaven.[/size] Me and you both know that those who are of heaven are spirits, only spirits reside in heaven. Jehovah, jesus, the seraps, angels and demons (previously) all reside(d) in heaven , they are all spirits . No flesh and blood among them.

What concern spirit those who are in heaven with the fact presented in that scripture?
The verse says THE MAN JESUS CHRIST since you and I know that they are spirit did I Apostle Paul who called the resurrected Jesus now in heaven THE MAN didn't know either?

Can you explain the @bold part especially, "heavenly man is as those who are of heaven"?

This is why those who will go to heaven must share in the divine nature . They must be ressurected with spirit bodies to enter heaven, for flesh and blood cannot enter there.

Can they still be referred to as MAN once there in heaven?
Apostle said "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..."
The "WE WHO ARE ALIVE" means those who have not experienced DEATH. We know that the body WILL BE CHANGE just as Jesus own was CHANGE but it's still FLESH.

This is why they will be among the first resurrection.
Jesus, the first to be ressurected in such manner (firstfruit) will be followed by others who will be ressurected in such manner too. For why call jesus firstfruit if there are no others ressurected in such manner.

There's no one ever DIED and came back with HIS/HER BODY by being CHANGE from mortality to Immortality this is why Jesus was the first fruit to resurrected in such manner.

New American Standard
Bible
"Yet He has now reconciled
you in His fleshly body through
death, in order to present you
before Him holy and
blameless and beyond
reproach--" Col 1 :22

New American Standard Bible John 1:1 says "...and the word was God". Do you agree?
I've noticed anytime it suit You to use other version You do but discard the same version when it's being used in another place.

Whereas what I challenged you for is FLESHLY BODIES (Plural) which is after RESURRECTION. Mr oga.

you forgot where I said angels have the power to materialise fleshly bodies. They Can also dematerialise those bodies. Remember, angels impregnated women during noah time.
The body jesus materialised was not the same that was sacrificed , he appears and dissapears at will,even when the doors where locked, something he did only after his ressurection.
He did not contradict Hebrews, no fleshly body was offered twice.

Remember what If Angels actual materialized human FLESH and married then DEMATERIALIZED THEIR HUMAN FLESH again that means many heavenly being have been given up their flesh before Christ did.

I can't stop laughing sha, but the ONE HE MATERIALIZED is HUMAN FLESH also, and your organization's claim was that the BODY OF JESUS WENT INTO GAS (which does mean DISPOSED OFF). So if Jesus materialized in Human FLESH and then disposed those so what happened to HIS FIRST BODY is still the same THAT HAPPENED TO THE ONE HE MATERIALIZED WITH MANY TIME.

No, the issue is " raised in the spirit" .
John did not say he was "raised in the spirit".
Dnt cut part of the sentence off.

Jesus died and you believed because the verse says RAISED IN THE SPIRIT means He was resurrected AS A SPIRIT notice grammatical change in that statement "IN THE" to "AS A". Then I said John who did not die but WAS IN THE SPIRIT means he change to A SPIRIT do you agree?

It is not used in the bible, the sentence can be explained using the bible . Now can you tell why Jesus is the firstfruit in relation to those ressurected.?

NOTE: Thank God you agree that IT'S NOT USED IN THE BIBLE BUT CAN BE EXPLAIN USING THE BIBLE, then the phrases "TOOK ON FLESH" did I say it can't be explain using the Bible? Mr hypocrite!

[hr /]
From here I have to start doing copy and paste, if such thing repeats itself I won't reply that part again.
[hr /]

I did not dodge ur questions, in fact I used the scriptures to explain my view .
I, like Jesus believe that the father is the only father we have in heaven. You can believe we have more than one father, you can take as many fathers in heaven as you want . But I follow Jesus teaching , the father, his father in heaven is our only father, he is the only one we should call father, he is the only true God.
When you accept what Jesus said, about the one we should call father. Then we will move on to other aspect like why Jesus will be called everlasting father.

You didn't dodge it yet you couldn't answer my questions?
So Prophet Isaiah was wrong to say He will be called EVERLASTING FATHER, right?
Has Jesus stop been an EVERLASTING FATHER simple?
Have you called Him EVERLASTING FATHER for once?

Definition of the word "incidentally " as used as part of my statement :
incidentally - /ɪnsɪˈdɛnt(ə)li/

used to add a further comment
or a remark unconnected to the current subject; by the way.

UNCONNECTED TO THE CURRENT SUBJECT...
Anyway, that's your own cup of beans.

Those verses are simple and clear, it tells me who my God is it tells me that there are many Gods, but from those many Gods only one of them is my God , my God is the father, he is the only God . Me and you agree that Jesus is not the father. I worship my God, I worship the father

I've always and will continue to tell you , do not cut part of a statement off. That method is used by those who want to give a different meaning from what the original statement is trying to tell us.
One phrase is with "of" and "in" while the other phrase is with "by". They are different phrases and not totally composed with the same words.

In the voice of Adam Clarke "Verse 6. But to us there is but one God, the Father] Who produced all things, himself uncreated and unoriginated. And we in him, kai hmeiv eiv auton, and we FOR him; all intelligent beings having been created for the purpose of manifesting his glory, by receiving and reflecting his wisdom, goodness, and truth.

And one Lord Jesus] Only one visible Governor of the world and the Church, by whom are all things: who was the Creator, as he is the Upholder of the universe. And we by him, being brought to the knowledge of the true God, by the revelation of Jesus Christ; for it is the only begotten Son alone that can reveal the Father. The gods of whom the apostle speaks were their divinities, or objects of religious worship; the lords were the rulers of the world, such emperors, who were considered next to gods, and some of them were deified. [size=14pt]In opposition to those gods he places GOD the Father, the fountain of plenitude and being; and in opposition to the lords he places Jesus Christ,[/size] who made and who governs all things. We, as creatures, live in reference, eiv auton, to him, God the Father, who is the fountain of our being: and, as Christians, we live di autou, by or through him, Jesus Christ; by whom we are bought, enlightened, pardoned, and saved." I don't need to waste my energy here but only if you can grab the point.

I did not say you said it. I'm of the view that you typed "answered " to affirm my view on the question . If my view is wrong , then pls tell us ur view on the question I asked before you typed "answered".

But why didn't you ADD in MY OWN VIEW to post so that people can see that you're the one who drawn the conclusion by yourself not me?
Not only wrong but it entails false statements.
For the last time, I've said before the Father is SUPERIOR to the Son. I don't know your problem again.

I ask a question , not asked for a point .
apart from authority , is there any other aspect in which the father is superior to the son, for example, knowledge and power? The answer to that question is important.

Honestly, I don't know why simple English is so hard for you to comprehend.
Any open-minded person reading my post knew that I've answered your question but the problem you're having with simple English is the one causing this problem for you.

Jesus is the POWER OF GOD how can God superior to His own power?
The man Jesus as Bible says that the act of Creation was done through Him, the same Bible says THROUGH KNOWLEDGE which means Jesus is the knowledge of God, can God superior to His own knowledge?

1st Q: no
2nd Q : when he began fufilling the reason he will caller everlasting father .
3rd Q: only one .

Now answer mine, why are those going to heaven called Jesus brothers, can we ever day the father has brothers?.

You agree Jesus has not STOPPED to be called EVERLASTING FATHER.
Your second answer, do you mean He has not started fulfilling the reason? The same verse is where JWs derived MIGHTY GOD. You can called Jesus Mighty God now but you believe He has not started to fulfill the reason to be called EVERLASTING FATHER.
Which one, Jesus or the Father? Since both are EVERLASTING FATHER and now in heaven.

When you quote the words in full as said in the bible, you will understand . Stop this cut cut thing you are doing .

Which words did I cut here?
It's very simple, you HONOUR FATHER in what ever way seems good to you but the fact from that scripture is which ever way you honour the Father (let conscience convince you) THE SON SAYS HONOUR HIM THE SAME WAY.

I do not twist words , that translation where you find "absolute ", he made it in reference with the authority to to judge,the verse also did not mention heaven and earth .
The verse that mentions heaven and earth when talking about the authority giving to Jesus after his ressurection did not say "absolute" . If I'm wrong , pls quote it and let's see if this is my personal twist or i said it as the verses said it .

Imaging YOU HAVE COME WITH ANOTHER LIE, "the verse that mentions heaven and earth when talking about the authority giving to Jesus after his resurection didn't say ABSOLUTE."
Then I asked you which you have been dodging since, what is the DIFFERENT BETWEEN Absolute and ALL?
Was the translation you used wrong by using the word ABSOLUTE?

The next ridiculous statement now is that the Father is the only one having SUPREME Authority the Son only has ALL Authority.

Jesus will forgive you all these things you're denying Him sha.

Q1: false, only God has supreme authority . He gave all authority to his son . (check explanation below )

Q2: yep, he was giving
Q3: just one .

Jesus has been giving all authority by the father, but Jesus is still subjected to that one that gave him all authority . Therefore Jesus is not the supreme being , the father is .
Jesus is thus not the almighty God as he (even as he is in heaven) has a superior , a God , who is the father.
The god I and Jesus worship is the almighty God.

Please where is the scripture the WORD SUPREME AUTHORITY can be found? Mr. first class hypocrite.
This is evident that you can go to any length just to use your mouth deny Jesus all what make Him equal to the Father.

ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY belong to God and since Jesus HAS ALL AUTHORITY AND HE IS THE POWER OF GOD. It's evident that He is God Almighty.

*He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!*

dolphinheart:
You said something about the thread, let's focus on that and treat the "abo wa ba" part.

Since I said something about the thread so no answer to what I said, right?

I wonder where I said you "hate" the organization . Really wonder.

[quote]I asked you if there is anything good about the organization and if you can mention it , but you sha want to talk about the organization without answering me.

When you said everyone knows HOW I FEEL about the organization is it love or hate everyone knows I feel about them?

You just single out this now but your previous statement is more than just seeing anything about the organization.

And I've done justice to that.

dolphinheart:
the abo wa ba questions is what we are interested in on this thread, let's not divert .

I only asked the question about the organization cus I wanted you to tell me if they dnt do anything Good, and if they do anything good can you mention it ?
This you did not say, but the main issue is the abo wa ba part which ill be waiting for ur reply on .
There is no need to try and boycott an issue that is not the basis of our discussion in the first place.

See another excuse, was my points only on the ORGANIZATION?

At least I still said something about the thread. I know you're looking for a way out here and all the roads have been blocked.

So answer my point and don't boycott the part of the organization BECAUSE YOU ACCUSED ME OF HATING THE ORGANIZATION OR ME NEVER SAID ANY GOOD THING ABOUT THEM here on this thread. So prove me wrong with what I said about them (Pastor Russell and his follower did TEACH THE WORSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST BASED ON SCRIPTURE, true or false?). Then people can see your allegation as fact here.

dolphinheart:
Thanks for the encouragement

You're welcome!

So I'm right to say those words where were never used in the scriptures.
When we use words that have different meaning to one used in the scriptures , it creates confusion. So please others should take note, words like "took on flesh" are not found in the scriptures.

For goodness sake; did I say my word was used directly in the scripture

You know why you shouldn't be taken serious? Because you're an hypocrite! You've been talking about the WORD I used which I've said IT'S JUST AN EXPLANATION not scripture WORD but you keep hammering on it as if I CLAIMED IT CAN BE FOUND in the scripture which I was unable to provide, though not that I can't explain my statement but I see it as a strawman attack.

Whereas, you yourself have used WORDS THAT CAN BE FOUND IN THE SCRIPTURE I don't want to disturb myself search previous post but I remember this particular one vividly.

You said this: Jesus is the first fruit ressurected in the spirit and [size=14pt]annointed christians[/size] hope to follow this form of ressurection Now I challenge you to provide the scripture where ANNOINTED CHRISTIAN appears. Failure to do so show that you're really a chronicle HYPOCRITE.

I did not see your explanation on that verse 'can you post it again and tell us how the word became flesh?

You don't need since you're here to attack strawman.

Can you please explain more on how jesus took a share in humanity? I need more explanation on how the word became flesh. Cus the scriptures did not say "the word took on flesh", neither did it say "the word entered flesh " . It said it "became flesh ".

Then did I say the scripture says the word TOOK ON FLESH? I know the reason you're fighting a lost battle here is because you've wrongfully thought I TWISTED John 1:14 to mean that statement out of you own ignorance whereas I was only explaining myself about how Jesus was not PART OF CREATION before His life on earth.

That's how you keep saying "I THOUGHT YOU MEAN" as you own my MIND the same thing has landed you in another problem.

So jesus came to earth with his divine nature and no longer took the form of men
again?

Again you're still in that dark side, Jesus didn't come to earth in FLESH in my statement means "why His life before living on earth is not in FLESH. Remember there was a statement that lead to that of mine. Get life!

Now to show you why jesus could not have been raised with a fleshly body .

Jesus said: “The bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world,”
During his last meal with his disciples, he also said that his body will be "given ".

Jesus giving his fleshly body goes along with the this statement :Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Just as the blood of animals where sacrificed , jesus flesh and blood had to be sacrificed so that the ransom can be payed . Adam lost a perfect body, another perfect body had to be presented.

If jesus had been ressurected with that same body, then he would not have giving his body as a ransome sacrifice, a corresponding sacrifice .
Jesus did not take back his fleshly body and thereby cancel out the ransom for which it was given.

The apostle Peter testifies that Christ went into heaven, the realm of spirits, not flesh, “he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”. A translation say "ressurected in the spirit " and he became the first fruit of those ressurected in that manner .

Christians who have a heavenly hope, hope for these same kind of ressurection , for they died a physical body , but will be raised with a spiritual body . They will die as flesh, but will be raised and go to heaven as spirits . There are two kinds of bodies or nature, a spirit body or nature and a physical /fleshly body or nature.

After Jesus’ resurrection and Before his ascension to heaven, jesus, as a mighty,
immortal spirit person,
materialize various [size=14pt]fleshly
bodies[/size] to suit the occasion, for
the purpose of giving to his
disciples visible, palpable
evidence of his resurrection

Mary who knows who jesus is and how he looks like mistook him for the gardener.

"14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will takehim away. - ( Joh 20:14, 15)
He again appeared, entering a room with locked doors, having a body with wound marks. ( Joh 20:24-29)
Several times he
manifested himself and was
recognized, not by his
appearance, but by his words
and actions. ( Lu 24:15, 16, 30,
31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18)
Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciples’ eyes to his identity. ( Joh 21:4-7, 12)
Jesus, having been
resurrected as a spirit (1Pe
3:18), could materialize a body
for the occasion as the angels
did in past times, when they
appeared as messengers.

Waooo waoooo, you couldn't prove those scriptures wrong but you have to pile up another episodes just out of your fable mind.

I will only comment on two points extracted from the above see below.

This giving of the body by jesus is why 1 Tim 2:5,6 says these : 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, [size=14pt]the man Christ Jesus;[/size] 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

So in jesus death, he had to give that perfect body as a sacrifice.

[size=14pt]He appeared with different fleshly bodies.[/size]

@bold 1-The scripture says THE MAN NOTE: This is after His resurrection, so Jesus is still MAN NOW IN HEAVEN!
Clear verse to JWs who think Jesus was raised in the spirit.

@bold 2-You accuse me of using TOOK ON FLESH because the word was never used like that in the scripture many times here, please can you show us where the word FLESHLY BODIES? directly used in the scriptures?

Lastly, since it is DIFFERENT FLESHLY BODIES that means Jesus' sacrifice was done more than ONE because those BODIES WON'T go with Him back to heaven as He was appearing to people, according to Paul's statement you used earlier "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ". and this will contradict Heb 7:27 that says "... for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself."
This is the reason the theory of FLESHLY BODIES (Plural) is ridiculous.

This is why I sometimes have issues with you . You deliberately cut statements and remove parts or us parts to explain ur views . The statement did not say " be in the spirit " it said he was "raised in the spirit". He could not have ascended into heaven with physical flesh cus flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.

And you will continue to have issue until you begin to use everything up there. The key point here is IN THE SPIRIT For Instance, John said I was IN THE SPIRIT did he become a spirit?

Immediately after you tell why jesus is the first fruit in relation to those ressurected

Hypocrite, show me where the word ANNIONTED CHRISTIANS is used in the scripture.

Well if you feel jesus calling the father "the only true God", as nonsense, that's between you and jesus, but as for me , I don't see any nonsense in calling the father what jesus called him , the only true God .
The question should also be directed to jesus, he was the one who said the father is the only true God. That question can only be asked by someone who feel jesus is wrong to say the father is the only true God.

Again, another way of dodging question I won't allow you to do that trust me.
Isaiah 9:6 says Jesus is EVERLASTING FATHER, you believe Jesus was not before but became at a time but now that He is called EVERLASTING FATHER, IS JESUS STILL EVERLASTING FATHER in HEAVEN or Prophet Isaiah was wrong to have said He will be called EVERLASTING FATHER?
How many FATHER DO YOU NOW HAVE IN HEAVEN? Those are the questions you're trying to dodge.

I did not say "show " us , I said " helps us to know".
"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

I worship one God, just as the prophets of old worship one God and the scriptures tell me that that one God is the father , who [size=14pt]incidentally[/size] is the only true God.

Imaging a believer who can say the Father is INCIDENTALLY the only true God. So when was this INCIDENT occur?
So it only helps us not that it says the actual one to be worshiped, then did you ask yourself why Jesus was grouped together with the Father with the phrase "whom are all things, and we by him." I know you'll argue of the words OF and BY

Is like Jesus and the Father are rival because everything about the Father is also about the Him.

Answered that jesus is not the almighty God.

Where did I say it If you can't provide it the lie of your organization is working in you seriously.

You did not answer my question : apart from authority , is there any other aspect in which the father is superior to the son, for example, knowledge and power? The answer to that question is important.

The point I raised on this is as crystal cleared but for fable mind like yours you'll still find it hard.
Jesus is the Power of God and through (Jesus) knowledge the world was made.

I think your question is based on a need to argue. Jesus said there is only one father, who is in heaven . Does this not show you that jesus being Called "evalasting father" [size=14pt]does not mean he is our father in heaven?[/size] Why do you think that those going to heaven are called "jesus brothers"?. We are discussing Bro , not trying to create a base for argument.

You agree that Jesus is in HEAVEN NOW!
Isaiah said Jesus is called EVERLASTING FATHER, then I ask has Jesus stopped being an EVERLASTING FATHER? If Yes! When? If No! Then How many FATHER DO YOU HAVE IN HEAVEN? Simple!
These are the simple thing have asked you but you keep perambulating since.

I've explained to you my own view of honor giving to the son just as its giving to the father. I worship the father cus he is the creator , the supreme being, I do not worship his representative

You only differentiate the honour you give to the Father and that of the Son you didn't say the honour you give the JUST AS YOU GIVE THE FATHER Jesus said "that all should honor the Son JUST AS they honor the Father." and DEEP DOWN YOUR HEART YOU KNOW HOW YOU HAVE BEEN HONOURING the Father so Jesus said HONOUR HIM THE WAY YOU HAVE BEEN DOING TO THE FATHER, that's scriptural TRUTH.

In that verse, it say jesus was giving the authority to judge, I did not limit jesus authority, I'm only following what that verse says
Again, as long as you use words that the verses in the scripture did not use, and cut sentences to suit ur view, we will always be having issues . The word "same" or "way" or "same way" are not found in the scriptures. Quote the scripture sentences completely and then explain from there.

OK! But limiting your point to that verse alone is far from it when you know Jesus said else where that (Not only on earth as you're trying to twist the scripture but IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH) ALL AUTHORITY... which I asked is there a difference between ABSOLUTE and ALL which you couldn't reply.

Answered that as jesus is in heaven now, The father is still superior to him.

I've already told you The Father is SUPERIOR TO THE SON.

In fact Jesus claimed HE HAS ALL AUTHORITY means He is God since ONLY GOD CAN HAVE ALL AUTHORITY.

Whether the AUTHORITY WAS GIVEN OR NOT, HE still has IT since you agree that The Father has not collected the Authority.
Answer my questions and don't boycott it,
-ONLY GOD has ALL AUTHORITY, true or false?
-DOES JESUS HAVE ALL AUTHORITY?
-How many people do you have in heaven HAVING ALL AUTHORITY?

dolphinheart:
Will wait for the abo wa ba

This is what you can do to bail yourself out from those points I raised up there, keep it coming!

Now go back to that post and address my points if not for get about yours because I don't why you want me to address your points but ignore mine.

I know you want to boycott it because I've said what your founder and his predecessor did.

That's one thing new generation JWs don't want hear.

Jozzy4:
Can you imagine the underlined ! The septuagint or english translation you read , had it been you paid attention to the literal rendering of that passage in the septuagint , you will realize why its said that the LXX greek admit two renderings

" the throne of you the God into the age of the age" .

This literal reading permit it to be rendered " God is thy throne" as seen in many english translations . And this is the most correct because the person been addressed has a God . (verse 9 ) .

as usual always twisting word.
Let me repeat myself once again, the point here is HOW THE SEPTUAGINT RENDERED THE VERSE not how PEOPLE INTERPRETED IT.

If we should go by interpretation there are many ones out there, that's why I even challenged you TO SHOW US HOW scholar, B. F. Westcott interpreted Proverbs 8:22 (which you agree with on rendering of Psalm 45)

But you boycotted that part as if you didn't see.
So do yourself a favour by focusing on how SEPTUAGINT RENDERED IT which is the point here.

How can God have a God ? God's God ? God annoint God ? God have God ? this is serious .

This is another unscriptural understanding.

According to you the literal rendering of that verse is "the throne of you the God into the age of the age"

No one will argue that this isn't referring to Yahweh not matter how it being rendered in Psalm 45 so the author of Hebrew QUOTED THE VERSE WORD FOR WORD no paraphrase which means it supposed to be rendered as it was in Psalms 45

Which will read literally: About the Son He said; "the throne of you the God into the age of the age".

I think the question to ask ourselves is, why a verse that is referring to God in the Old Testament DIRECTLY QUOTED AND APPLIED TO THE SON?

Jozzy4:
The greek word used in the LXX conveys " days of age" not everlasting ! Check Micah 7:14 where the same greek word appears in the septuagint , it doesnt mean isreal have been feeding on bashan and gilead from everlasting .
It depicts ancient times since the context indicates he has an ORIGIN.


Whereas the greek word used at proverb 8:22 directly mean CREATE ! LXX

Keep dancing around!!!

So if the Greek word used conveys "days of age", wasn't the same Greek word used in Psalm 90:2

But you must find a way of twisting Micah but Psalm still remains even when we also read about the Father as THE BEGINNING which you interpreted as ORIGIN here

And the Greek word used in Micah directly means EVERLASTING!!! LXX

Jozzy4:
I can see you are indeed a frustrated man , how does your post address the op , meanwhile regarding psalm 45:6,7 arent you aware that The renowned trinitarian Bible scholar, B. F. Westcott, wrote:

Yeah and I'll continue to be frustrated over the kingdom of darkness who trying to twist the Word of God.

The next thing is to run back to Scholars, please what does this scholar say about John 1:1 and Proverb 8:22?

" The LXX [Septuagint] admits of two renderings [at Ps. 45:6, 7] : [ho theos] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (`thy throne, O God, .... therefore, O God, thy God...') or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the first case ('God is Thy throne,' or `Thy throne is God...'), and in apposition to [ho theos sou] in The second case (`Therefore God, even Thy God...') .... It is scarcely possible that [elohim] in the original can Be addressed to the King. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho theos] is a vocative in the LXX [Septuagint]. Thus on the whole it seems BEST to Adopt in the first clause the rendering: `
God is thy Throne' (or, `Thy throne is God'), that is, `Thy kingdom Is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.'" -The Epistle to the Hebrews, London, 1889, pp. 25, 26.

I think you're missing the point here and this is another way to deviate from the point you raise in the OP.

The point here is HOW SEPTUAGINT LXX RENDERED A VERSE not HOW PEOPLE INTERPRETED IT? so if you can be fair enough I challenge you to provide how scholar, B. F. Westcott interpreted Proverbs 8:22 whether he interpreted it as the Wisdom being created or not

English Septuagint I read on Psalm 45 rendered it as "Thy throne, O God..." now compare this with how an organization rendered it in BOTH PSALM 45 and Hebrew 1 where the writer applied it to Jesus.

Jozzy4:
But Time indefinite was used both at psalm 90:2 and micah 5:2 , stop this lies . They render it the same way .

Meanwhile , its interesting that Micah 5:2 in the LXX says " whose going forth were from the beginning" , going forth refers to ORIGIN " ; the ONLY God dont have an origin.

In the first place how do you know the organization I'm talking about?

You need more of basic English, I didn't compare the two verse BUT HOW THE VERSE WAS TRANSLATED IN LXX and their own.

Lol...going forth refers to ORIGIN but the ONLY God is the beginning (ORIGIN). So what about the second phrase? "FROM EVERLASTING" Does EVERLASTING mean ORIGIN too

Beside him AS A MASTER WORKER!

When He was actually not the one doing it according the that chapter.

The LXX directly said jesus is created ! Proverb 8:22 , do you agree?

The LXX directly said Jesus is from EVERLASTING Micah 5:1, do you agree?

dolphinheart:
My admissions :
I admit that in posting that translation , i did not fully know or take note of all the words present in that translation. I based my explanation and knowledge on other translations I'm used to .
In general and in complete quotation , does the translation I quoted mean something different from other translation that did not use the word "absolute"? My answer is no. Looking at all the scriptures quoted so far , we know that jesus being giving [size=14pt]"all authority" or "absolute authority" does not make him equal to God!. This is the basis of the discussion we are having as the presence or absence of the word "absolute " does not change jesus position in terms of who is superior in authority between him and the true God(the father).

So you have to quote TRANSLATION YOU'RE NOT USED TO and you couldn't check the wording very well. That's how your organization behave I'm sorry to say it again.

@bold- [b]Only God has ALL or ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY, TRUE or FALSE?

I also admit that I should not have used the sentence " the authority giving to jesus is not absolute" cus apparently we see some translations use that word when talking about jesus authority to judge.

Now the AUTHORITY HAS BEEN LIMITED only TO JUDGE... SMH

My apology:
I apologise for the use of the sentence as stated above as it is not right for me to express it that way . The underlying reasons for saying such words has been explained in previous post.

Apology accepted, but you haven't apologize for wrongly accuse me.

Now that the issue is cleared, we can move on back to the discussion.
The question arises on the issue of authority:
(a)If it is accepted that jesus is not equal to God on the issue of authority, can we rightly say that prior to jesus coming to earth , he did not have that authority as he was not giving then ?
(b) that once jesus came to earth, he also was not equal to God in authority ?
(c) and upon his asscention to heaven as a spirit creature,and till this moment we are discussing, he still does not have the same authority as the father( the one true God, his God)?
(d) that we can say jesus is a God, a mighty God , but he is not almighty as he has someone superior to him in the past , when he came to earth , and in the future?
Will like to hear ur reply on these .

To other aspects : (e) what of power , expecially power to ressurect , was jesus giving that power too?. Is jesus equal to God in power ?
(f) what about knowledge, does jesus know everything the father knows?

This is ABO WA BA in Yoruba means we'll trash this later.

Now to the issue of organization , you have issues with the organization , that is accepted, but on these thread we are discussing on the bible in general.

I don't have issue with your organization but putting the light of the scripture in the eyes of the people whom those who opposes the truth or perverted the Word of God have covered.

I said that you do not say anything positive about the organization despite your mentioning them several times. Is there nothing good in ur eyes to say about them?

Maybe because they fall in the category of those people I mentioned above.
Beside, Devil is a liar and the father of it. Your organization lies a lot maybe you know it but the fear of dis-fellowship still holding you back or you don't know which you can challenge me to provide the evidence. Can God lie?

If there is something good about the organization, why do you not
Say it ? Or have you decided to talk only about what you feel is wrong about the organization?

Every human being are not perfect but when God USED anybody the outcome is perfect, your organization claimed to be used by God but still lying and changing previous message, is that how God works?

My first post on this thread about the OP was "New generation of JWs don't worship Jesus but their founder Russell and his successors do so for over good 50years.

I wonder who is right between the founder and the followers or should I call it confusion, and the fate of those JWs who have been taught that worshiping Jesus is scriptural.

If it is Jehovah that truly called Russell, why Jehovah couldn't tell him that worshiping Jesus is idolatry but allowed Russell to die as an idolater?

NOTE: Am I lying about this? Is this how God works in the history of man?

Note: you can laugh at my post, but I wunt join you , I see laughter during serious discussion as a way of winning arguments and do not pass on any information with the laughter.

I will not use any deamining word towards ur posts

You have your life you can do anything you like with it.

dolphinheart:
Ok ill try and see if I'm able to get the quote method.

You got it this time but still learn how to make use of it fully because you're still giving me some tedious work of copy and paste.

So those words where were ur own and where were never used in the bible.
Pls show me where I used words that I can't defend using the scriptures.

No there are yours! Like I pointed it out earlier you quite knew that it's just A VIEW NOT DIRECTLY quotation from the Bible but you still just want to attack strawman.

I quoted a scripture that says " the word became flesh ". This you sidestepped in ur reply. The noble did not say "the word took on flesh " but "became flesh".

And I'm didn't tell you that my explanation is on that verse, did I? Continue to attack strawman again.

What do you understand by " word became flesh"?

He took share in humanity

So what did jesus come to earth with?
In what way does ur statement support the "took on flesh" statement you made earlier?

His divine nature.
In every ways.

Can you provide prove that jesus went back to heaven with his flesh ?
I read 1 peter 3:18 and that place said " made alive in spirit" in reference to jesus ressurection.
Jesus died in the flesh, he was made alive in the spirit .
This form of ressurection is what humans who hoped to enter into Gods kingdom believe in for paul said "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ".
Remember jesus is the first fruit of those who are to be ressurrected , if jesus where ressurected with his fleshly body , he would not have been the first for there were previous fleshly ressurections before jesus ressurection.

Many proves are in the Bible for FLESHY resurrection of Jesus Christ
1. Jesus answered and said to them, [size=14pt]"Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."[/size] 20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 [size=14pt]But He was speaking of the temple of His body.[/size] He didn't say "in three days I will BUILD/FABRICATE/GET another body but RAISE IT UP.

2. He didn't fabricate another BODIES (Plural-like your organization teaches) but show the same PRINTED NAILS and side wounded body to the doubting Thomas.

3. The tomb was empty which is the evidence Jesus gave to the eyes witness Disciples to confirm His statement in John 2:19-21 that the TEMPLE will be destroyed in three days and raise it up. If Jesus' body diffused into air as you believe then Jesus is lying to have said He will RAISE IT UP

Many people are said to be "IN THE SPIRIT" in the Bible so using this as a support that Jesus never resurrected with His body contradicts His own statement.

Jesus is the first fruit ressurected in the spirit and annointed christians hope to follow this form of ressurection
"Just as there are fleshly bodies, there are also spiritual bodies". Read 1 cor 15 : 44.

Now can you show me where in the Bible that ANOINTED CHRISTIAN hope for this form of resurrection? Waiting for your Biblical support.

I deliberately did that, I changed the father to the only true God . Does the bible support my view ?
Yes, for jesus called the father the " only true God"
In john 17:1-3.
1 cor 8:5,6 also helps us to know which God we should worship, I encourage you to read it.

You deliberate did it, that's nonsense.
You believe Jesus is A GOD then is Jesus a FALSE GOD OR A TRUE GOD?
Where in 1 Corin 8:5-6 that shows which God to be worshiped?

Now let My reasoning faculty analyze what you just said
The father(only true God) has superior position and authority over jesus.
The father is equal to jesus just as I'm equal to the president cus we are both nigerian citezens.

From the above, we can agree that jesus is a "God" , but he is not the "almighty God" cus the father is superior to him.

Answered!!!

Apart from position and authority , is there any other way the father is superior to jesus?
Knowledge- the father is superior to jesus cus jesus said he learnt from the father and there are still greater things for him to learn(to be shown ). Jesus also told his disciples that there are certain things he did not know , but only the father( the only true God knows).

Power- jesus received the power he used to perform his wonderful works from God. Read acts 10: 38.

According to my Bible Jesus is the POWER of God and through God's Knowledge the depth were broken up which is the act of creation and everything is done through The Word of God which will know on earth as Jesus.

Unless you will tell me that God created His own knowledge and power.

Jesus said there is only one father who is in heaven.

That means Isaiah was lying when he said the Child will be called EVERLASTING FATHER

Read john 5 : 19 to 23 again .
You will know why the son does what the father does. Everything the son does, he learnt from the father.

The point is not why the Son does what the Father does but THE SAME HONOUR THAT GOES TO THE FATHER MUST GO TO THE SON that's the point here

Yes you are right, but his loyalty and love for the father made jesus not to do his own will, I never said jesus does not have his own will. Jesus has subjected his will to the will of the father.
Now john 17:2 helps us to understand that this particular ability of jesus was giving or granted to him by the father.

And after it was granted unto Him, He then says YOU SHOULD HONOUR HIM EVEN AS/JUST AS YOU WILL HONOUR THE FATHER.

Yes , if jehovah(the almighty) came to earth himself , ill worship him as the almighty God. I will also honor him as ill do the almighty god . [size=14pt]But if he sends a messenger , a representative, ill honor that one as a representative of the almighty God.[/size] The previous verse 22 let's us udderstand why he said all will honor him as they honor the father.

Then what is the essence of the SEAL AND AUTHORITY placed on the representative if not because Jehovah wants you to SEE and DO TO THE REPRESENTATIVE just the way you will see and do to Him?

That's why, if a President sent a representative to an occasion to my own understanding and how I see people doing it.
The representative will be addressed with Your Excellency Sir, Mr President some can then attach in the person of so so... to it or some will just continue.

[size=14pt]The honor you give a person is determined by the value or weight that person holds in you.[/size] The father loved us , he sent his son, I honor him for that . The son did not do his own thing, he did what the father sent him to do , I honor him for that . I also honor The son cause he has been giving authority to perform acts that might lead me to evalasting life and can't gain such life if I dnt follow him.

Now the AUTHORITY does not limit to judge alone keep fooling yourself.

I still see the @bold part as attacking a strawman because we're not talking of the How honour you give determined the value the person holds in you [size=14pt]but EQUIVALENT OF THE HONOUR YOU GAVE TO ONE MUST BE GIVEN TO THE OTHER PERSON[/size] ...haba enough of this your twisting tongue.
Jesus said "EVEN AS/JUST AS you honour the Father" point is anyhow you HONOUR THE FATHER HONOUR THE SON IN THE SAME WAY.

If I tell someone:
-Respect me the way/even/just as you respect your parent
-Honour me the way/even/just as you honour your mother
-Fear me the way/even/just as you fear you Father

This doesn't mean that the person must valued his/her parent more than me BUT it's crystal cleared to everyone hearing my voice at that time that [B]I'M DEMANDING FOR EQUAL RESPECT, HONOUR AND FEAR from such fellow.[/b]

So forget about this your jumbo jumbo twisting, IN ANYWAY YOU HONOUR JEHOVAH (which you know within yourself) JESUS DEMANDS FOR SUCH HONOUR ALSO! Very Simple.

The father was superior to Jesus while he was on earth , the father is also superior to Jesus when he went back to heaven.

Answered!!!

You said you're "humble enough to accept them and apologise" but instead of you to do as you claimed, you went further to lay many accusation on me and trying to put the blame on me again.

dolphinheart:
Initially I thought your reference to "absolute authority" was in relation to jesus statement "all authority has been giving me "- Matt 28:18.
With such understanding in mind , I said the authority given to jesus is not absolute! , for the scriptures help us to know that despite all authority being giving to jesus, he is still subjected to the one who gave him such authority . So in the aspect of authority , jesus is not equal to the one who gave him such authority.

I can't stop just laughing, did I quote any scripture in my post? You just decided to reason beyond my own mind.
Beside, What is the different between ABSOLUTE and ALL? If I may ask because I see you trying to make it looks different.

Ill like to admit some few things here. The translation I use mostimes do not say " absolute", and neither did most other translations use that word, but because I felt you would start arguing on translations, I decided to use one that might be acceptable to you. I bet you might have focused on the discussion and not on the word "absolute" if I've used numerous other translations that did not use the word. As I'm not a scholar who knows all the words used by each translation, i decided to look at what those verses in different translation, using different words is trying to tell us in general.

Now shifting the blame on TRANSLATION, were you not the one who quoted it or didn't you read what you quoted or are you saying the translation you used isn't correct?
Again, YOU FELT I WOULD START ARGUING ON TRANSLATION reading my mind always you must be like my Grandmother.

I also admit that I should not have said to you in particular that " the bible did not say "absolute authority " cus I should have remembered how you twist words.

Now blackmailing me of twisting words when you're the one messing yourself up here. keep blaming me for your lie.
You quoted verses from a particular translation in which you yourself inserted your OWN words in bracket but you couldn't see that.

Now let's look at the scriptures again . Jesus did not say he was [size=14pt]"giving absolute authority"[/size] but said he was giving [size=14pt]"absolute authority to judge ".[/size]
All the translation agree to these and if you had not cut that part "to judge" off from ur Statement, probably this issue would not have come up.

Anyone reading this your post can see how funny you sound, now the Absolute Authority is only to judge. Continue to fool yourself.

I know you are trying to bring the equality of jesus with God up with word "absolute authority" , but it will still not work, cus even if we use the word absolute in describing the authority giving to jesus, he is still subjected to the one who gave him such absolute authority! .

Or do you think jesus is equal to God cus of the authority he was giving?

This is another place that shows how pathetic you sound and baseless your point is because I've already stated in my initial post that the Father is superior to Jesus in Authority and Position. So reading my mind once again to draw your faulty analysis won't save you here. deal with your lie!

I know you might still argue with my explanation, but I posted it this way so that people who have humility in their heart and who want to know the truth can understand why [size=14pt]I said jesus was not giving absolute authority to make him God almighty.[/size] For I know that no matter the authority giving to jesus, it does not make him equal to God. And I can bet that you, knows that too.

I know JWs' problem is the @bold part they hate anything that makes Jesus God and fail to give Jesus the glory that belongs to Him.
Matthew 28 says "ALL AUTHORITY... and it's only God that has ALL AUTHORITY which means if Jesus is not God then Jehovah has raised a CREATED BEING to His own level.

I do wish you could stick to the discussion on what the bible says about jesus and not keep making remarks about an organization, Everyone knows how you feel about them and knows you will never say good things about them. And pls keep derogatory statements out of our discussion

@bold & @underline-Yes the honest people do and know I don't say things out of my own head against JW but [b]ALWAYS USE JWs OWN WRITINGS as my prove which none of you have never disprove. In fact this is evident that one Jws on this Forum was calling me "Mr. Jehovah witness says"
When I say your organization changes their words or contradict their previous statement or even lie, your own is to ask for a prove and if I failed to provide them then I'll agree with you but as it stands now my statement still remains valid.

I will not need to change my previous post, if i do say something wrong Bro, I'm humble enough to accept them and apologise. I dnt act like a "lord of all".

Did you tender your apology? No! Instead you find another avenue to put all the blame on me and the translation.
You should have just said in a simple sentence that it was a mistake and I'm sorry so that everything will just die down but you went ahead to accuse me and wrote another ridiculous post.

Now I hope we can move on to your proper reply on my post and express your views on the scriptures and not an organization.

It will, but let me conclude this part about AUTHORITY with your own word from the first statement in this post so that I won't deal with it again as I'll continue to enlighten you in that your post. "So in the aspect of authority, Jesus is not equal to the one who gave him such authority."

Jozzy4:
My conclusion doesnt contradict , God give birth to the earth means God form/create it (psalm 90:2) the same hebrew word is used

A right thinking person know God is not a woman that he should give birth , that expression refer to creation ! that means the septuagint LXX rendering @ prov 8:22 is correct

I can't just stop laughing the way you hold Septuagint LXX whereas when we look at other Septuagint LXX rendering in other verses about the Messiah your argument will be forfeited.

For instance;

In Psalm 45:6-7 was rendered in Septuagint as 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a sceptre of righteousness. 7 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness beyond thy fellows.

Whereas the author of Hebrew applied this verse to Jesus Christ when the Father is addressing His Son in Hebrew 1:8 and an organization rendered it as God is your throne! Which is one is the correct one, the Septuagint or that organization?

Again, in Micah 5:1 Septuagint rendered it as "1 And thou, Bethleem, house of Ephratha, art few in number to be [reckoned] among the thousands of Juda; [yet] out of thee shall one come forth to me, to be a ruler of Israel; and his goings forth were from the beginning, [even] from eternity.

And an organization rendered it as from time indefinite! even though the same Hebrew word was used for the Father in Psalm 90:2.

Is Septuagint or that organization the correct one?

So look at the context of Proverb 8:22-end and see what the writer is saying, like I told one JWs the context of that Proverb 8 will contradict some Christian Greek scripture if being reading out of context because if you read it down the Speaker didn't claim to be used for the creation but just beside Him but Christian's Greek Scripture says everything was created through Jesus.

Let me stop here first, but if you want more explanation about Proverb 8 let me know.

I know the next thing you will do is to strike through my post.

How beautiful would've been to reply your post but immediately I came across this YOUR DAY LIGHT LIE, I know you're just exhibiting the habit of your organization, saying something today change it tomorrow OR contradict the previous statement. What an organization, what a followers! So I have to point it out before I continue with you.

This is from your previous post.

dolphinheart: I will show you my understanding of the verse by quoting it and also adding more info in bracket.

John 5: 19-23:
19 So Jesus explained, “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing( your deity, Jesus, said he only does what he sees the father doing, he does not do anything of his own initiative, yet some say the father and son are equal, how can they be equal when the son does not take any action unless the father tells him to? ) . Whatever the Father does, the Son also does( can you see superiority here too, no verse in the bible ever says "whatever the son does, the father also does"wink. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he is doing( the father teaches the son ). In fact, the Father will show him how to do even greater works than healing this man( the father will still teach the son how to do greater things in the future). Then you will truly be astonished. 21 For just as the Father gives life to those he raises from the dead, so the Son gives life to anyone he wants. (the father has giving the son the ability and taught him how to raise the dead) 22 In addition, the Father judges no one. [size=14pt]Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority[/size] to judge, ( the father gave the son the authority, at a Particular time Jesus never had the authority ) 23 ( since the father has giving this authority to the son , what happens next) so that( the word "so" links verse 23 to verse 22 ) everyone will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him.

Pay attention to the @color part especially the @underline, now see what you said later in your second post below.

No , jehovah has not taking back the authority. [size=14pt]Bro, the authority giving to Jesus is not absolute!. The scriptures never said absolute authority.[/size] The scriptures explains that despite Jesus being giving authority , he is still subject to the father who gave him the authority. So in no way was Jesus ever equal to the father in authority at any point in time

So which scripture did you quote in the first place that said Jesus was given ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY?
Can you see how you plainly deny scriptural evidence?


Clear this mess before I reply to your post.

*NOTE: Don't try to modify your post because I've taken screenshot of it.

lexiconkabir:
read from 8 and you will see that it was that son talking to God. and God is truely the creator of all things.

Stop bringing Islamic theology into what doesn't concern you.

Verse 8 reads: "But to the Son He (The Father) says..."

Bible isn't like Qur'an where the speaker switched from First Pronoun to second pronoun or from third to another.

lexiconkabir:
you are yet to show me how that verse refers to jesus, some translation uses firstborn, please who was the firstborn on earth and pls address heb1:9. where that son was told "therefore God, your God has placed you above your companions ...."

And if you now add verse 10 that applied creation to the Son.

Was it Adam that created everything?

I know you're a Muslim trying to bring Islam understanding into Christian.

Next time make your post well arrange by using quotation tag (instead of typing You said or I said or my remark) if not I won't reply you.

dolphinheart:
Do you have any bible verse(s) to support [size=14pt]ur views[/size] expecially the "word of God entered the creation"? note key word we are looking for *"enter creation" *

Do you have any verse(s) that supports the statements: (a)"took on flesh"
(b)became part of creation?
*note the key words we need from the scriptures :"took on flesh" and " became part of creation.
Words not used in the right format or probably deliberately twisted can give one a different understanding . The different translations I read on john 1:14 says " the word became flesh " and " word was made flesh "!. * note key word : "became"!

Attacking strawman, @bold how can view/understanding of verse be found in the scripture? When you yourself did the same below.

Now you say jesus had a God when he took on flesh , to me this implies that he did not have a God [size=14pt]before coming to earth(correct me if I'm wrong).[/size] Now did he still have that God or did not have that God when he went [size=14pt]back to heaven[/size] after his ressurrection ?

The two @bold show you never grasp the point; but let me help you.
Jesus came to earth NOT WITH HIS FLESH but He went to heaven with His Flesh.

My remarks:
I agree with you, jesus was sent by the one true God.

So He was not sent by His Father, right?

You said:
His Father!

But no comment, since the Father is different from the one who sent Him according to you by changing The Father to the ONE TRUE GOD in above.

My remarks :
Ur statement shows that jesus and the father are not equal in authority and position , the father is superior to jesus

You read me well.

My remarks:
You earlier stated that the father is superior to jesus , that they are different persons, now you state they are equal?.
How can they be equal when one is superior to the other?

President Muhammad Buhari is superior than Me (It means PMB is superior than me in Authority and Position)
President Muhammad Buhari is equal to Me (It means as a Nigeria Citizen we are equal)
Let your reasoning faculty do the rest

Isaiah 9:6 said :"he will be called....... evalasting father". This denotes that at a particular time he was not called "evalasting father".

Now that He's CALLED Everlasting Father, how many EVERLASTING FATHER DO YOU HAVE?

Are you saying that when we worship jesus, we also worship the father? Or we worship both at the same time

I believe you read and understood my post.

Thank God john 5:23 did not say " everyone will worship the son just as they worship the father".

The question is, do you honour God THROUGH YOUR WORSHIP?

I will show you my understanding of the verse by quoting it and also adding more info in bracket.

Can you provide scripture for your understanding here as you said of me earlier?

( your deity, jesus, said he only does what he sees the father doing, he does not do anything of his own initiative, yet some say the father and son are equal, how can they be equal when the son does not take any action unless the father tells him to?).

Do you know the meaning of SUPERIORITY?

Whatever the Father does, the Son also does( can you see superiority here too, no verse in the bible ever says "whatever the son does, the father also does".

In fact your scriptural perversion is alarming. NOTE here, Whatever the Father does, THE SON ALSO DOES! What does that mean to you? Beside, Did I say there's no SUPERIORITY?

20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he is doing( the father teaches the son ). In fact, the Father will show him how to do even greater works than healing this man( the father will still teach the son how to do greater things in the future). Then you will truly be astonished. 21 For just as the Father gives life to those he raises from the dead, so the Son gives life to anyone
[size=14pt]he wants.[/size] ( the father has giving the son the ability and taught him how to raise the dead) 22 In addition, the Father judges no one.

The @bold is the key here, which means Jesus can also carry out HIS OWN WILL without conflicting Father's will. Which brought the whole previous verses into ONE. As even though Jesus can INITIATE His OWN WILL He still Allow the Father to lead.
I know you didn't see this.

Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge, (the father gave the son the authority, at a Particular time jesus never had the authority ) 23 ( since the father has giving this authority to the son , what happens next) so that( the word "so" links verse 23 to verse 22 ) everyone will honor the Son, [size=14pt]just as[/size] they honor the Father.

We will see how perverted you are with this your understanding.

Now that He has the Authority. Has Jehovah take back the Authority? If NO! How many people do you have HAVING ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY? If YES! Kindly explain.

Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him.

If a king sends a messenger on an errand with his seal or sign of authority, that messenger is honored like you'll honor the king . Jesus said all will honor the son like they honor the father cus of [size=14pt]the authority the father gave him.[/size] He definitely did not mean worship the son like they worship the father.

Imaging after in your own illustration when the messenger will be honored LIKE YOU'LL honor the King later change to not mean worshiping the Son like they worship the Father which we can then ask, how will people would've honored the King if the King that was actually seen by the people in place of that messenger?

I believe you don't understand your own illustration and this is where JWs always miss it.

The meaning of your illustration is very simple, the SEAL and the AUTHORITY can be interpreted If I (the King) be the one who APPEARS in your PRESENCE or come to you, how will you have treated me? In other word it means if it is Jehovah who actually came to earth with is OWN SEAL and Authority WILL YOU WORSHIP HIM or NOT?

Children honor/value there parents
Servants honor/value there masters
Jesus honors/values God
God honors/values jesus
Servants of God honors/values God
God honors/values his loyal servants

Illustration upon illustration without knowing how it refutes your own claim.
Is it the same way the loyal servants honor God that God will honor them back? But Jesus said "...EVEN AS/JUST AS..." which means IN ANYWAY YOU HONOR THE FATHER HONOR ME IN LIKE MANNER.

As for me and the rest of TRUE BELIEVERS all over the world, we honor the Father through our worship, praise, prayers. I don't know about JWs but I know because you knew the gravity of this verse over your believe you decided to limit your HONOR to Jehovah ONLY for being the CREATOR.

Since it was God who highly exalted his Son, all who refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the immortal King of kings and Lord of lords dishonor the Father. Because of who he is and what he has accomplished, the Son deserves honor and loyal support.
All who desire to be honored by the Son as his approved disciples must imitate his example and faithfully adhere to his teaching.— Romans 2:7, 10.

Was it because The Father is also immortal King of kings and the Lord of lord that made them dishonor Him? Since the statement was "...EVEN AS/JUST AS they honor the Father."

I value the father cus he is my creator, I value the son cus of what he has done for me.

You've given that beautiful verse two different meaning now because of your twisted tongue @bold, do you mean what Jesus did for you it's not Jehovah who did it?

Then you must value The Son as the creator too because "...EVEN AS/JUST AS you value (if we replace honor with value just for your own taste) the Father" that's what the verse says.

My remarks :
Sir , you have not answered question 7 .

You question is YES, is that ok?

But my question has been danced around and swept over as usual.

Maamin:
"THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" - Jesus Christ A.D 33

After quoting the whole of my post the only thing you can type is this.
Who says the Father is not greater?

an you help us answer this please?

do you honour the Father through your worship or In what way do you honour the Father? Remember Jesus said [size=14pt]"...EVEN AS/JUST AS..."[/size]

dolphinheart:
All should consider this questions

One mistake that people who raised questions like these are making is the INABILITY to distinguish between when The Word of God entered the creation and was given the name Jesus and His preexisting life from eternity.

(1) does jesus have a God?

When He took on flesh(became part of creations) the Father will automatically be His God as the Father is God for every creations.

(2) was jesus sent ?

Yes to earth by His Father.

(3) who sent jesus ?

His Father!

(4) who do you think is superior , jesus or the one who sent him .

The Father is superior IN AUTHORITY/POSITION than Him.

(5) is jesus the father?

He is not the PERSON of the Father but He is an EVERLASTING FATHER Isaiah 9:6 which placed Him in Equality with the Father.

In fact this is one of the verses that spelled out the Deity of Jesus.

(6) if you think jesus is not the father, who do you think deserves our worship , jesus , the father or both ?

The worship giving to Jesus is also for the Father no difference because "That ALL (including JWs) may HONOR THE SON, [size=14pt]EVEN AS[/size] they (including JWs) HONOR the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth the Father which hath sent him" John 5:23

Let me ask you this maybe you can answer it since JWs I've asked always dance around and swept over it, do you honour the Father through your worship or In what way do you honour the Father? Remember Jesus said [size=14pt]"...EVEN AS/JUST AS..."[/size]
*Note: Don't ridicule your post by now giving me the definition of the word 'Honour' from dictionary.

(7 ) is Christ under subjection to anybody ?
( if you are in subjection to another, is that person not superior to you ?

Then do the Trinitarian ever claim that Jesus is superior than His Father?

It's better you get a Trinity book and read for your own benefit and leave everything Watchtower had told you about Trinity because it never presents Trinity the way Trinitarian teaches.

thecornerstone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIWezNEoPqo

For more videos, please visit www.illbehonest.com
and www.sermonaudio.com/gcc

New generation of JWs don't worship Jesus but their founder Russell and his successors do so for over good 50years.

I wonder who is right between the founder and the followers or should I call it confusion, and the fate of those JWs who have been taught that worshipping Jesus is scriptural.

If it is Jehovah that truly called Russell, why Jehovah couldn't tell him that worshipping Jesus is idolatry but allowed Russell to die as an idolater?

Willkommen! to all Muslims und Yahweh Gesundheit!

Mariojane:
What is the big deal with inviting Pasuma?

because Pasuma is not singing to edify the body of Christ.

Is it not a church?

Yes it is and that's why such step could be taken before people like you will see Pasuma performing and shout, what is church turning to this day?

What right do they have to condemn human?

Nobody condemned here ma, just a step to prevent such shout.

Who knows maybe the Pasuma is holier than them, what if by inviting him he can change for good and change his style of music. That is, if he is not better than them.

This is a contradictory statements ma, if you think Pasuma is holier than them why did you THINK again that by inviting Pasuma, he can CHANGE FOR GOOD AND HIS STYLE OF MUSIC?
And what do you think is wrong with his music style that needs to change?

People should stop condemn others cos through your condemnation your are sinning while the person you are condemning is living his life.

I can't see any condemnation here

He is invited to church he can't bring naked girls to dance there, he is wiser than that,

And believe if he finally did when the time to prevent such action had gone people like you will shout and pass judgement on the body of Christ.

you should have allow him come before condemning or suspending your pastor.

Prevention is better than cure!

onyengbu:
The second select box (models) populating is the main plot behind the code and it is properly populating when you change makes value.

If you copied my code verbatim and followed the instructions, it must work.

Yes I copied everything just as you wrote them, just don't know the reason why it couldn't populate.

Thanks once again.

Can you help me with another alternative?

*modify
Let me say this, I'm using this code inside a PHP file where getheader was placed, so where exactly will the SCRIPT fit to be inserted?
Could it be after the gethearder or before?
Inside the form tag or outside the form tag?

because I placed the SCRIPT inside the form tag.

onyengbu:
Below is the same code with the jquery part re written. Save in a php file named select.php or update line 27 if you save in another file.
You can see the jquery library I added is hosted online so run the file in a internet connected system or change line 19 to link to to your local copy of jquery library if you are offline.
Cheers.

Thanks so much for your contribution but I'm having problem with the second select box now because the first select box (for #makes) populated but the second select box (for #models) doesn't populate.

What can I do?
Thanks once again.