₦airaland Forum

dolphinheart:
thanks for the encouragement. To answer your question, one needs to go back and read on statements made then, not just the cut and paste method. But I wunt be doing that, what I'm learning presently is what I believe to be the truth, unless you can bring up a contrary explanation to my present beliefs, I don't see a need to go back to old beliefs that I do not believe in , talk less of if they are inspired or not.

Yeah you don't need to go back to old believe of people like Russell & Rutherford but can go back to the more older believe of The Apostles.

What if the Apostles have behaved like Russell and Rutherford, which believe will you have hold?

You're learning presently, Yes! But the question is, do you learn on a neutral ground or your learning is still from JW materials?

I do not know in detail how jehovah works, I do not know in detail what Russell said or did, I do not know Russell at all except what is written about him, which can be true or false depending on the intentions and knowledge of the writer.

Imaging, it's now you're claiming what was written about Russell whether is TRUE OR FALSE. Simply because you don't know him. Please, do you know Jesus Christ before you accepted what were written about him?

Now, to say you don't know in detail what Russell said it means you never learn anything because Russell himself wrote books not even one but many.

The scriptures tell us that Solomon was the wisest man on earth, he built the temple which God approved, he wrote part of God's inspired word for us today, he had gods spirit in him, he was called a prophet by some, he was the leader of God's people. But the scriptures tell us that Solomon also built things for other Gods and even worshipped there.

Stop using this poor analogy, did Solomon died as an idolatry? At least Solomon realized that he had been deceived to have worshipped another god and amended his way.

now were those other things he did inspired by God? If the temple was inspired by God, does that mean the places he built for other Gods where also inspired? what do you think solomon would have told his people to make them follow these other gods too.

Did Solomon claim that he was inspired by God to have set up false temple? No! But remember NO JW teaching inspiration was not claimed. Until, you show me where Russell said MOST OR SOME of his teachings were just based on his human knowledge. Then I'll take you serious.

I do not compare Russell to solomon in anyway, but I just want to show you the difference between inspiration and reality.

You are already!
The questions I'll demand of you now are;
1. was Russell ever inspired by God?
2. was there anytime Russell did not inspire by God but still went ahead to deliver his message?
3. How can you differentiate between his inspired message and non-inspired message?

knowledge is a very important aspect when God does his judging, but so is a person's heart condition. thsee two things will play an important role during resurrection.

Knowledge on what?
So it means I don't need to belong to any organization before Jehovah resurrected me.

I do not know what will happen to anyone during the resurrection, but I do know that jehovah will not judge anyone unfairly.

How will you know since you're not a true Bible believing student because every believer in the Bible knows that [b]NO IDOLATER WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD and since Russell and Rutherford died worshipping Jesus Christ which today's JW terms as idolatry.

many have died in different parts of the world knowing nothing, what do you think will become their faith.

Don't shift the topic.
Russell & Rutherford claimed to know about God even being the very mouth piece of God yet their god allowed them died idolaters.

A mother decides to have babies , but she kills them months after their birth, she says they will go to heaven cus they have committed no sin. These children have no knowledge of the truth, does that mean they will go to hell fire? The answer will help us to understand more about how jehovah will judge those with wrong knowledge.

Does it mean Russell possess wrong knowledge?

yes you are right, Jehovahs withnesses started as being bible students, people who study the bible, and that's their foundation. What they tell you from what they have learned does not their foundation, it's like a structure built on the foundation. when they learn new things and realise their error with the old one, they humbly pull it down and rebuild, but still on the foundation of being bible students, always learning from the scriptures.

Just see how devil is playing chess game with your life.
Which means what you hold as truth today can be considered false and error by another person tomorrow.
What happened then? The wrong knowledge continues! Then let Ephe4:14 guide you

Well, on these thread, ive not seen any. you do not know what I've decided or not decided on, but if you think you know, pls tell me one of the things I've decided on(that my grandfather's believed in), why you think it's wrong, and what you think is right.

No matter what you decided, your believe has is root from some of Russell's teachings that were not discarded by today's JW.

The version that I use was published during my time.

And it was just the previous version EDITION.

now you have to provide proof that a particular error was claimed to be inspired.

The question is, was there a time the JW presidents were not inspired?

on David's issue, I wanted to show you that having gods spirit in you is not a claim to perfection, you can still do and say things that displeases God. Moses is another example, his mistakes does not mean he was not inspired to do and say certain things!

We all know that, but has JW ever come out for once to admit that they were never inspired? No! Rather they were busy defending their failed prophecy.

I do not surpport the use of abusive or derogatory statements.
Jonah made a prophecy that did not go according to how he said it.
and like I said, paul(and even you)have not told me anything about Daniels prophecy.

How did Jonah's prophecy didn't go according to how he said it? I care to know.
About Daniel's prophecy are you saying God is lying or your understanding about the prophecy is still shallow?

but you do not look at present Germany by what their father's and grandfather's did in 1941, or do you? whatever it is that they did!

One thing is certain, God can not lie and inspire error.
You already admitted your organization error.
Further more, Christianity is a continuous teaching. If the Apostles contradicted themselves or change their teachings just the way JW does nobody will take them serious. So if the Apostles had discarded Jesus' teaching no Christianity whereas what happened in Germany in 1941is human effect.

going further, I'll prefer to talk about my present beliefs!,cus such can lead me to evalasting life.

Nothing has change in your believe you still hold to ALL WHAT JW teaches, unless if you can list what you consider as error now in their teaching. Then I'll take you serious.

joyandfaith:
if you like quote the whole jwfacts or go and set up satellite tv station and make it free [size=14pt]to promote lies about jw, you cannot succeed.[/size] you are not worst that hitler who vowed to exterminate jw. are you?

@bold-You're very funny.

Is jwfacts.com promoting lies about JW or is it you who decided to live in lies of JW?

Russell died worshipping Jesus Christ so do some JW for good 54years. is it lie by jwfacts or your organization?

You're coming up small small. You've admitted that Jehovah witness actually made past mistakes but the real question is are the just MISTAKES OR PURE LIES AGAINST GOD?

dolphinheart:
When someone accuses me of having a belief in the past(during my granfather days) and I tell such ones that due to better understanding, I've seen that I've made mistakes and I've humble adjusted my beliefs, but he keeps hammering on those discarded beliefs just to discredit my present beliefs, then. I can conclude that that persons aim is to find fault by any means posible.

Your analogue is wrong in a sense that the issue is an eternity one not just political or social issue. Do you know that MANY JW DIED BELIEVING THOSE TEACHINGS?
Is that how God worked in the past?

You may see those teachings wrong but they are people who hold to those teachings as truth and died in them.

That's not how God worked before the advent of Russell.

When someone does not discuss extensively with you based on your beliefs , but talks about things you dnt presently believe in, then you should know there is something wrong somewhere.

No! Your foundation determined your stand. If the founder of JW got it wrong and he never admitted those errors but died in it then the foundation of your present believe is shaking.

When someone does not give any explanation, does not give his own understanding of the scriptures or beliefs, then you know his aim is just to bring you down and not build you up.

You're lying here, people always take their time to expounding your scriptural knowledge but you've decided to die in your grandfather's believe which you claimed you have nothing to do with. That's why you hold their Bible own version above hundred of othrr versions out there.

David, a man with Gods spirit in him, committed murder and adultery. He did things that displeased jehovah. What made him stand out from most other men? He was humble, and tried his best to adjust when he learnt about his mistake.

After all David didn't claim it was God who instructed him to do so but Russell and two Presidents who took over CLAIMED THEY WERE BEEN DIRECTED BY GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT. So comparing David who admitted his mistake based on his human error and your past Presidents who claimed they were been directed by God is out of it.

Jonah was not called a fake prophet after nineveh still existed long after the days mentioned by jonah had passed.
Up till now, I've not seen paul talk about his own understanding of Daniels prophecy

This is how you keep wallowing in your delusions.
What has Jonah's case got to do with JW wrong teachings?

If I'm to find fault with your past, I can only do so if I feel you still accept and believe in it. Can't look at present Germany based on what they in 1941

What happened in Germany in 1941 does not call God has a witness but your founder claimed God inspired him. These are two different case!

joyandfaith:
paulgrundy has been following paul grundy of jwfact website blindly. does he know the owner of the website personally? what if tomorrow, paul grundy changes his mind about jw and shut down his website how will paul grundy of nairaland feel?

It doesn't matter whether Paulgrundy changes his mind today or tomorrow.

What matter was the FACTS Paulgrundy has always pulled out from his website. Paul never says anything about JW without supporting it with JW OWN writing, which is the TRUTH AN OPEN-MINDED fellow needs.

Just like your brother Admitted above with an illustration of his grandfather. JW actually has many change TEACHINGS in the past which today's JW considered wrong. Which will can then conclude that those teachings were not from God.

So we can conclude, those teachings were just ordinary human wisdom (but remember NO JW PRESIDENT EVER CLAIMED THEIR TEACHING WERE BASED ON HUMAN WISDOM RATHER [size=14pt]they claimed INSPIRATION FROM GOD)[/size]

The big question is, what is the fate of those who have died in those teachings now considered wrong by today's JW? Remember also that Russell died in a believe of worshipping Jesus.

BERNIMOORE:
Are you still afraid to show Where the bible mention directly that satan is himself an angel?

Can you show us where Satan was said to be created in the Bible?

acenazt:
Alles ist gut. Wie war deine Nacht?

Es geht, und sie?

Jozzy4:
]Here is my statement once again , " the greek word in Luke 18:19 is /agathos/ which means good in the COMPLETE inherent sense .
"
[size=14pt]I deliberately insert " COMPLETE "[/size] to distinguish the usage of agathos at Luke 18:19

ONLY God is good in the complete sense .

Jesus Humbly reject such a title to be reserved for God alone .

But you wont see that , instead you start googling for agathos

Imaging the @bold statement and you can even proud of it. Devil doesn't have shame at all.

You DELIBERATELY ADDED it just to make it supported your lies whereas that's not the actual meaning of the word. so you have to give AGATHOS in LUKE 18 A SPECIAL MEANING different from the way the same word was used in other places, God is watching you!

I even went further to help your ignoramus by giving the meaning of the two words (with a strong established Greek Dictionary) but instead for you to accept your error you're still trying to justify this plain lie, in fact Kalos is more deeper in meaning than Agathos as we see above.

Since you can openly deny Jesus being COMPLETELY GOOD, it's only God who can help you.

---

Let me add this Jesus didn't deny being called Good in that verse but only asked the gentle man a question why do you call me good?

Jesus wants the man to give him reason why he called him good which is a method Jesus wants to use to lead him to salvation.

And the rest of their conversations show that the man didn't trust Jesus enough as the good man he called him if not the man would've sold ALL HIS BELONGING AND FOLLOWED JESUS IF HE ACTUALLY BELIEVED THAT JESUS IS GOOD rather he left home sadden without supported his claim with fact.

ZUBY77:
I speak German, Dutch, French, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian. I speak English obviously.
Now i am learning Mandarin/Chinese.

The OP is Aboki. Who haven't left his village to anywhere. So obviously, the white man is smarter than him

Let's surprise this @OP

Guten Morgen!

Bonjour!

Wie geht's?

Comment allez vous?

acenazt:
Hhahahahahahhhaha Same old same old. I'm learning German and Japanese

Guten Morgen!

Wie geht's?

Emusan:
How can a Jehovah witness deal with all these statements?

1. "Unlike any other human, Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he was born on earth...and is therefore appropriately called God." (Good news from God, Chapter 4-who is Jesus Christ, pg

2. "We are...spirits living in a body of flesh...part of us survives death." (Iblis, Chapter 6-what hope is there for the dead? pg 12)

3. "The Bible states that...God created the universe in six literal 24-hour days" (Awake March, 2014 pg 5)

4. "For centuries the churches propagated the doctrine of the trinity,...the Father and the Son are part of the same entity" (Watchtower, June 2015 pg 15)

Could it be that the organization is about to change their stand?

Feel free to say your mind...

What is your view?

Jozzy4:
This heresy that you lift online is baseless , the greek word in Luke 18:19 Is /agathos/ which means good in the complete inherent sense , much deeper than John 10:11 which is /kalos/ beautiful, good.

Lol...
Just imaging I lift heresy online, well let see what mr no heresy has to say.

You ran to Greek as if you know what you're saying. With this your assertion then, it means NOT ONLY God is good but MANY PEOPLE and Thing are God

Agathos:
a primary word; "good" (in any sense, often as noun):--benefit, good(-s, things), well.

Kalos:
of uncertain affinity; properly, beautiful, but chiefly (figuratively) good (literally or morally), i.e. valuable or virtuous (for appearance or use, and thus distinguished from 18 {18 here is the Agathos}, which is properly intrinsic):--X better, fair, good(-ly), honest, meet, well, worthy.

Now let see how Agathos was used in the scripture and it's used more than 30 times.
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good (agathos) gifts unto your children,... 18 A good(agathos) tree cannot bring forth evil fruit,..." Matt 7:11,18
"A good(agathos) man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things:..."

IN FACT THE MOST PERPLEXING IS WHEN PEOPLE ARE DIRECTLY CALLED GOOD (AGATHOS)!
"And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good(Agathos) man, and a just:" Luke 23:50
"And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, [b]He (Jesus) is a good(Agathos) man:" John 7:12
"...which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was [b]full of good(agathos) works and almsdeeds which she did." Acts 9:36

I can give you more references but let me stop here!

Like I said you lack scriptural understanding.

Everyone understood the reason why ONLY GOD IS GOOD not because of the Greek word that was used and for Jesus to claim to be GOOD it shows that He is God since only God is good.

Is Jesus good /agathos/ ? No , He clarified in Luke 18

Just imaging because Jesus must not be God then this can come out from you (it's obvious that people can see the spirit that is working in you), anyway God will have mercy on you.

I don't know how Jesus the creator, only sinless person will not be GOOD when the same Greek word AGATHOS was used for ordinary people even the Jews OPENLY CALLED Jesus Good (AGATHOS) "And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, [b]He (Jesus) is a good(Agathos) man:" John 7:12

Is he a bad person ? Not at all .
gud
Is Jesus the only true God ? No , he clarified in John 17:3 .

Is Jesus a false God ? Not at all .

I don't need to address the rest of your points again because my heart pierced when I read what you wrote OPENLY, [size=14pt]Is Jesus GOOD (AGATHOS)? and your answer can be NO![/size]

You know the gravity of CALLING JESUS GOOD that's why you can go to the extent of deny Him, His wonderful privileged.

Shalom!

Richirich713:
So is jesus perfectly Good or is he not? Is he perfectly righteousness or not?

He won't answer you because he has put himself in confusion, he asked question which himself can not answer.

He can't say Jesus is GOOD since only God is good neither can he say Jesus is a bad person.

Jozzy4:
Luke 18:18-19

And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him,“Why do you call me good ? No one is good except God alone. "

Attacking strawman!

This is how you'll know that you lack scriptural understanding and how you prove that Jesus is God since only God is good.

In John 10:11 Jesus called Himself "The GOOD shepherd" since Jesus is good THEN HE IS GOD.

Don't boycott my question for the last time!
Answer me: is Jesus a true God or a false God?

Since Jesus didnt refer to himself as Good , can we conclude Jesus is a Bad person ?

Lol...Bible student saying Jesus didn't refer to himself as good this is the highest JWs can go to hide the truth about Jesus Christ don't worry you have helped us confirmed that Jesus is God since only God is good.

Jozzy4:
Good ! After introducing himself as the I Am that I Am , he further state :


"
And God said moreover unto Moses,
Thus shalt thou say unto the children of
Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers,
the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac,
and the God of Jacob, hath sent me
unto you: this is my name forever, and
this is my memorial unto all generations. " - Exodus 3:15 ASV

The bold reveal him as Jehovah , The God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob .

_______

Now since you Emusan has help us identify who Jesus refer to as the only true God , lets go back to john 17:3

" their taken in knowledge of you , the only True God [ the I am that I am , Jehovah , The God of abraham , Isaac and Jacob ] and of the one whom you sent , Jesus Christ " John 17:3

The True God is now identified as , Jehovah the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob .

NOTE : He sent Jesus , infact jesus is his servant ...

Thanks Emusan .

"
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,
The God of our fathers, has glorified His
servant Jesus. You handed Him over
and rejected Him before Pilate, even
Though he had decided to release Him.
" - Act 3:13 BSB

Seriously, just see how you twisting my point.

Anyway that's how a typical JWs behave.

Jesus identified Himself as I AM if that's where you're going.

And this servant created everything which made Him Your Creator.

Jozzy4:
What is His name ?

I Am that I Am
Alpha and Omega
The Beginning and the Ending
Ancient of day

You need more?

We can only address this question when we have identify the only true God .

Never try this rubbish with me next time, once you start dodging my question then consider my reply to your post over. No time to check time!

Jozzy4:
Some Nursery school and higher institutions student are taught that Brahma is the creator of heaven and earth , some are taught that "Ptah" is the creator , some are taught that Vishnu is the creator of heaven and earth . Tell me , who is the creator of heaven and earth acording to you ?

The only true God!

Answer me: you believe Jesus is a God, then is Jesus a true God or a false God?

Befitting:
Hey Nairalanders, I'm a northern girl who hails from Adamawa state. My both parents hail from adamawa, thesame local government but different villages. They're both christians. My mum died 2006 and my dad even remarried before her death. The 2nd wife is from a muslim home but converted to christainity for reasons best known to here. Since then we've been living in peace although she hasn't bore a child yet and I don't think my dad is considering marriage.
Right from childhood, I've been around muslims, I've always admired their religion ofcourse apart from the jihad and terrorism. But every other thing about them I love. Now, I'm thinking of converting, I've let my muslim friends know about my decision. But what I'm not certain about is if to let my family know about it, because I know the consequences that would come with it. I'll be disowned and thrown out of the house. But my mind is made up already. I don't know what to do. I'm the 1st daughter and we're just 2gurls.
I know somany of you will condemn me for this but I'm ready to receive all the condemnation and insults from my christian brothers and sisters.

@bold 1- especially the underlined, eternity is a personal race but it's unfortunate that you decided to choose your own on the LEVEL OF ADMIRATION.

NOTE: There are many things to admire in life but there are a great stumbling block to eternity.

This your case made it evident that throughout your Christian life you never had PERSONAL UNDERSTANDING AND ENCOUNTER OF JESUS Christ just as Christ instructed through Apostle Paul says "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is LORD, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Corin 12:3 and as Christ Himself said "Jesus answered and said unto him, if a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:23 Just as many people who profess Christianity are just Church goer like you today.

The interesting part of these two passages is that both address INDIVIDUAL NOT A RELIGIOUS GROUP OR LEADER with "No man & a man"

@bold 2- Let it be known to you that you're not the first person who convert from Christianity to another religion or no religion nor you will be the last, well I know some people will actually condemn you but the truth is they are not God and majority of them might even be dying in ocean of fear of rejection either from family, friend or work sake if they take such step because many people only claimed to be Christian but deep down their heart they have no connection with the Author of life and the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world.

Shalom!

Jozzy4:
Who is the creator of heaven and earth ?

Nursery school student question!

Jozzy4:
Answer me , Who did Jesus identify as the ONly true God ?

The Creator of heaven and earth!

tempem:
I only asked you to work on comprehension. And if you've been working on it, keep working.

I will sir after all it's an advice.

You didn't bother to answer my previous question

Are you a JWs?

tempem:
You've seen it point blank.... No point arguing..

I didn't see anything at least if someone committed a crime it will be shown to the person i.e you kill so so person or steal so so something, therefore you've committed murder or stealing offence.

You and Jessicha just said I'm wrong for no reason

Are you still in school? You should still be.
Work working on comprehension.
How to read an article and deduce the point..
Enjoy your day, sir.

To your question, Yes! School of life.

Enjoy yours too, Sir.

[

Jessicha:
Yes sir , so much appreciate you for been honest .

I asked you, what kind of person I am?
and what did I do wrong in my post?
You acted as if you didn't see it.

tempem:
You are wrong, sir...
Check the screen shot below.. You'll see the highlighted spot
Only didn't verify lie two(2) 'cause I don't know if Jw has the book you referenced ...... Why did you just decide to come up with this? Dunno!
All Jessica's references are right, though.
I'll admit you didn't read it well... Take care, sir.
Lovely day, ahead.

You and @Jessicha say I lied and wrong without pointing it out how I lied in the OP.

tempem:
There is no point saying you are wrong. We'll see! No point arguing without proof.. I wish I were with the references.. I'll soon be home.

OK,

But sorry to ask you this, are you a Jws?

Jessicha:
Very good , check the publications referenced to know the real truth and confirm the kind of person the OP Is.

What is this one saying

What kind of person I am, care to know

We need a true JWs here not this Madame.

Jessicha:
Lie 4:


Truth : Full Article , Watchtower , June 2015


" For centuries, [size=25] the churches propagated the doctrine of the Trinity, [/size] claiming that the Father and the Son are part of the same entity. The antichrist thus shrouds in mystery the identity of Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.
This mystery hinders sincere people from imitating Jesus Christ and drawing close to God, as the Bible encourages them to.— . "


http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015406

How dare you said I'm lying

What make you think I'm lying

dolphinheart:
The husband is not family, he is a member of the family .
The wife is not family, she is a member of that family.
The child is not family, he/she is a member of that family.
Each has a role and position that is different from the other.
They are not equal.
They are all humans, but have different authority in the family.
The family is not neccesarily made up by 3 individuals, it starts from 2 to as many as possible individuals.
the use of family does not support trinity!.

Go and read your Trinity booklet after that you can quote me on this thread if not never attempt to quote me again.

Jessicha:
In a family each person is not family , but according to trinity doctrine . " Each person is God " and not a part of God .

O ma se o , since each of the Three is God , how can they make up ONLY One God ?

Cry me a river!

I'm not using Family to prove Trinity but what you emphasized on which is "ONLY ONE." I simply show you how ONLY ONE can be used for more than one person.

Sorry, try again!

tempem:
Read! But I don't believe them. Will check from the publications referenced

I'll be awaiting your research sir.

Jessicha:
Eeyah, na wa o
Ok , how dare you use ONLY one to qualify three persons ?

Very simple! The Three make up the ONLY ONE just as a husband, wife and child(children) make up ONLY ONE Family yet they are all distinct persons.

Is it cleared?

Jozzy4:
Be honest , who did Jesus identify as the " ONLY TRUE GOD" ?

Are you honest with yourself?