₦airaland Forum

[quote author=izi-n-bizi]Timothy said all Scripture and not "Genesis to Revelation", note that there are many kinds of scripture. He obviously never heard of the compilation of books called Bible and I'm very sure he will be amused to find out that his writings are now being classified as Word Of God. The fact that they are inspired by Spirit still does not mean they are Word of God or void of the writer's point of view. They are profitable for a guideline, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in the way of righteousness: This means they are a guide for you to understand righteousness in Spirit and the Word Of God who is the Christ but the books itself is not the Word of God.[/quote]Get it right anything you received through the inspiration of God comes directly from God. The reason why Holyspirit reveal that statement through Timothy is the point you stated above "void of the writer's point of view" it means all those words is not just an imagination of man but what the spirit of God has revealed through man. Some songs are also inspiration of God i.e all christains HYMNS. The compilation of all inspired written statement from men through God's spirit are "WORD OF GOD" the reason why Bible takes the lead is because it's the beginning/origin for other inspirational book.

What I'm here to let you know is that Bible is a word of God, any materials written by a man with the help of Holyspirit is also a word of God.

If you start from Genesis to Revelation or any other inspirational book from any man of God..they are all proven God's love towards all mankind.

How do you allow the word of God to dwell in you richly? Colossians 3:16 "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;...."

Thanks

[quote author=izi-n-bizi]Where in the Bible is it written that the books "Genesis - revelations" are the words or word of God? where did the concept originate from? No book can hold the Word of the Creator of all that exist, except you refer to a different one as God. Please educate me on how you came to your conclusion.[/quote]I will only quote one phrase from this 2 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God,....."

These words """Inspiration of God""" simply means God's Spirit.
Linking this with that John 1:1 ""In the beginning was the word........"" the words you're speaking from your mouth is immaterials. It's this same word that became flesh John 1:14

If that's what you believe anyway goodluck to you beside christians shouldn't be argued on things like this rather than to focus on salvation. Thanks

Kay 17: @emusan

What about the moral rules written in our"hearts"? Shouldnt the fulfilment of such be sufficient to make heaven?

@bold-that is the major point of this thread some people believe they can manage/guide their life right without the help of the Holyspirit.

The moral rules you mention is a 'constant K' in every human but Bible call it 'RIGHTEOUSNESS'.

The question now is, can man be 100% in righteousness?

I believe you can answer it after this little explanation.

1 John 2:29-"If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of God"

1 John 3:9-"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God"

1 John 3:-"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, nither known him."

If you look at the first two verses critically you can agree with this equation:
Righteousness + addition of Holyspirit = strengthen of righteousness.

Because God is so have confidence in any man that has Holyspirit in him not to commit sin. As you can see in that second verse "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed(Holyspirit) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,......."

While include third verse into the rest verses we can derive this equation:

Righteousness + lack of Holyspirit = temptation into SIN

James 1:14-15 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin, when it is finished(ruins man's life down), bringeth forth death(which is evalasting death)".

Most SIN man committed today is out of the result of temptation.

Now let's go back to where we begin 'when I said moral rules written in our hearts is constant K' because every man both young and old have this element in them: reason is that in one way or the other we are all righteous to some extent but not 100%/completely;
*we have seen a case of an armed robbers spare some people's life.
*we have seen where an unbeliever donate massively to an ophanage home.
*we have seen a case where assasin change his mind not to kill the person e.t.c but the nitty-gritty of the matter is staying righteous without any element of SIN is not possible and without the Holyspirit because we face devise temptations every day. Remember, "......ye know that every one that doeth righteuosness is born of God and whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin......"

No isn't sufficient to make heaven because God demands our 100% of righteousness!
Shallom!!!

My own wedding vow goes thus:

I emusan take you 'no name' as my wife as from today "If she fails to accomplished her mission and vision in this life in any circumstances, Oh Lord ask me for it"

Also:

John 16:7-13
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper(Holyspirit) will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
NKJV

Kay 17: Is the holy spirit necessary for making heaven? Is preaching to others necessary for making heaven?

If not, what is the use?

I said it in one of my thread that you're the only open-minded atheist I've ever known on this forum. Kudos!

The works of the Holyspirit in believer's life can answer your question.

Let's look at this statement "is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto every good work.”

@bolds:
the first bold-inspiration of God quonote 'Spirit of God' or simply 'Holyspirit' that was concealed in God's word(Bible).

The last bold tells us how Holyspirit can instruct every rigtheous man unto perfection and make their work acceptable.

As for the questions you ask:
1) Is Holyspirit necessary for making heaven? I say YES!

2) Is preaching to others necessary for making heaven? No! because we only need salvation. Preaching to others is a choice! (The choice here I will term it as selfshness if the person fail to preach to others after gotten his own salvation) But Jesus commanded us to go ye into the world for two reasons:
a) As a believer who has found grace and see the true light of God must also allow others (2 Cor 4:4) to see the light too and there's a reward for it in heaven.

b) at last jugement day no excuse will be made by anybody. Matt 24:16 "And the gospel of the truth shall be preached unto all nations, then shall end come"

The issue is that Holyspirit helps us to be equal to things in heaven while on earth, and also helps us to interpret the Bible according to God's mind because Bible is his word.

VanTee20: #9
Two friends were smoking weed... One of them went behind a tree, removed all his clothes and came back to
his friend naked!

He stood infront of his friend and asked;

"How do I look in my new suit?"

The friend looked at him, smiled, took another puff and said "Wow!!! You look so amazing in this your suit but you put your tie below the
waist instead of putting it round your neck!"

I can't laugh it all. It seems like a joke but one Bros that is taking weed (though God has arrested him now) once told me that anytime he takes it if Goliath stand before him he will look like a day old baby, anytime I remember this statement I will just burst into laugh.

“Given our talent set, experience, and education, many of us are fairly capable of living rather successfully (according to the world’s standards) without any strength from the Holy Spirit.”
This a quote from Francis Chan’s book ‘Forgotten God: Reversing our tragic neglect of the Holy Spirit.’
It’s a great book and one that has challenged me. Tremendously. It’s so easy to get caught up in the ‘doing’ at church and actually, many of us are pretty good at it:
We are articulate. We are humorous. We are hard-working.
We can manage without the Holy Spirit thank you very much. but why would we do that?

I don’t know about you but I don’t want to just ‘manage’. I don’t want to just be a branch manager of a church. I want God to be so working in me that things happen around that cannot be rationally explained. I want to know the Holy Spirit’s whispering and respond in obedience.

The ridiculous truth is that the Holy Spirit dwells in all believers. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 says ‘Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?’

If the Holy Spirit is in us shouldn’t that make a difference? Shouldn’t WE be different? I don’t want to have to decide somewhere down the line that I need to reverse my ‘tragic neglect of the Holy Spirit’.

I want to embrace Him. Today.

Who’s with me?

Once a lifetime @ FEPODO

timothycel: It happens more during rainy season because its similar to fishing. You are most likely to catch a fish during "Fish" season (that may be mating season, summer, winter etc depending on where you are) than you are to catch one out of season.

When it is rainy season, the elements are all there. Severe thunderstorms and electrical storms. The lightning is already there, it is then a matter of directing where it should go.

In my country you will find that in the rural areas people will consult their witch doctor at the beginning of spring so that they can get protection from the lightning Juju before the summer electrical storms.

We often find that the first electrical storm of the season kills many people and then people remember to get protection from Jujus.

This Juju can also be used out of season (Dry Season) but a more powerful Juju is needed as a storm cloud needs to be created. This can happen very suddenly (15 minutes or so) then you here someone was killed by lightning but very little rain fell and the storm is over in 5 minutes. (To answer your question I cant say I have witnessed someone being struck with my own eyes)

I personally have had dreams of an uncle of mine trying to send lightning to my family. (He is involved in the practice of killing family members and using them to make money). He owns many taxis and shops. He had 11 siblings but he is now the only Older family member alive. His uncle got him into this "business", he has always had about 10 wives and without fail 1 dies each year or one of his many children and then he gets a new wife etc.

There are many Jujus that work just the same as the lightning one. They mainly work buy increasing your bad luck exponentially. You are more likely to die of car accident, stroke, stabbing, during childbirth, fire etc. A juju works on opportunity, when there is a chance for something to go wrong a Juju increases the likelihood that it will.

If you watch the movie Final Destination and notice how something is always trying to kill the characters given an opportunity, its the same way a Juju works.

Witchcraft is widespread across the Asian sub continent, the Far East, the Middle East, South America. It just cant be proven, just like how God cant be proven. But those people who have experienced the ill effects of witchcraft can tell you all about it. It is the same with God, people have had experiences which confirmed their beliefs.

Witchcraft can never be proven though, there will always be a "scientific" explanation.

Thanks for this your explanation. I wonder why some people keep saying there's nothing like paranormal in this life we're living.

I never get answer to this question. If something is superstition, why is it globally experience?

[quote author=From_Guiriga]No.
The bible are books hand picked by some folks who took council on which writings to compile into one book and which writings to leave out.

Is not this a historical fact Pastor?

Which bible are we talking about here anyway?

Why spread this propaganda Pastor?
[/quote]Pls the Ethiopian bible you're talking about does it mean it was written by Ethiopians or just a name because the only thing I know about origin of the Bible is that "The Apocrypha and the Septuagint
There is a cluster of about 14 books, known as the Apocrypha, which were written some time between the close of the Old Testament (after 400 B.C.) and the beginning of the New.They were never considered as part of the Hebrew Scriptures, and the Jews themselves clearly ruled them out by the confession that there was, throughout that period, no voice of the prophets in the land. They looked forward to a day when “a faithful prophet” should appear.
The Old Testament had been translated into Greek during the third century B.C., and this translation is known as the Septuagint, a word meaning 70, after the supposedly 70 men involved in the translation. It was the Greek Septuagint that the disciples of Jesus frequently used since Greek was the common language of the day.
Whether or not the Septuagint also contained the Apocrypha is impossible to say for certain, since although the earliest copies of the Septuagint available today do include the Apocrypha—placed at the end—these are dated in the fifth century and therefore cannot be relied upon to tell us what was common half a millennium earlier. Significantly, neither Jesus nor any of the apostles ever quoted from the Apocrypha, even though they were obviously using the Greek Septuagint. Josephus was familiar with the Septuagint and made use of it, but he never considered the Apocrypha part of the Scriptures.

Thanks!

[quote author=izi-n-bizi]The Bible is not the Word of God.[/quote]Why people just like shouting?
The OP went on to clear how Bible is the word of God, you jump in and just say is not the word of God. How did you arrive at that conclusion? Beside this is a debate forum where many people can learn new thing from but I wonder how some people behave childishly on this forum.

Bible is not the word of God! Does it make any sense or provide any tangible reason?

Beretta92: @Emusan,i knew u wud misunderstand dat line. When i talked about substances, it was with respect to rocks alone. Trees are of course targets due to their heights. And about me being skeptical of yr story,it's not my fault,ok.I've witnessed people distorting n embellishing things i witnessed with my own very eyes beyond recognition. Moreover, supposed paranormal stories i've looked into hv turned out to be shams. And it's ok if u think i'm deluded-it's simply what u think.

@bold-Let me agree I misunderstand you! If the substance are limited to rocks alone, is it only igneous or sedimentary rocks that the substance present on?

@color-if tall trees are most target of thunder strike USA redwood trees that tall over 60ft(20m) should've distroyed then.

What about the thunder strike that happen in a building?

Alfa Seltzer: Which evidence? Show us 1 single evidence. I hope you know the meaning of evidence; as opposed to hearsay.

@logic too
Just go through this website and see evidence of paranormal.

http://www.victorzammit.com

You still keep deluding yourselves under the lies of Dawkins.

Just have it at back of your mind that Victor J. Zammit and the rest of scientist are not creationist, some are freethinker, humanist e.t.c. So imagine an humanist challenging an atheist about his work.

hisblud: Emusan! Emusan!! this is bad market oh, why are you bring this kind of research which is making their hope in the non existence of the paranormal, jittery. Emusan why now? see articles for that website oh.

Lol

Just feed your brain small Bros. The funny part of it is that, this is a humanist challenge to atheist not creationist challenge.

Logicboy03: Good work, Alfa Seltzer!

Provide evidence. Court dont work with a case that has no evidence

@bold-Why R. Dawkins doesn't want to verify the evidence presented by those NOBEL LAUREATE scientists that paranormal is exist?

Uyi Iredia: We all are close-minded to a greater or lesser extent. For example, by thinking as a deist, I have debarred myself from accepting the atheist's POV.

Yea you're right!

More than TEN NOBEL LAUREATE scientists all agree that paanormal do exist. That's why they conclude that Prof. R Dawkins is too close minded in his research to neglect paranormal. Most scientist mention in this case are all humanist, freethinker e.t.c they begin to wonder, why Dawkins fail to look into any work of paranormal just because most of his works are full of assumptions.

I created a thread on this: 5 reason why Dawkins is wrong!-by Victor J. Zammit

Zammit said his work is not for religious people but to throw more light on what some scientist have covered for so long. He has challenged Stephen Hawkin's work and R. Dawkin's work.

http://www.victorzammit.com/

Alfa Seltzer: Replace paranornal and afterlife with god in that interview and it's just the same bullshit of requiring people to prove their unbelief.

If they don't have evidence to support their claims why do you think they forwared the case to the court?

Most atheist are too close minded.

OLAADEGBU: What to Put On
June 19, 2013

"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:49).

People give much attention to what material clothes they should put on, but the New Testament tells us what spiritual clothes to put on. First, we are to be "endued with" power from on high. This Greek word (enduo) is normally rendered "put on." That is, we are to put on power, and this is imparted only by the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8,), according to Christ's departing promise.

"Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. . . . put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof" (Romans 13:12, 14). "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27).

Along with this, we are to "put off concerning the former conversation the old man," and then to "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness" (Ephesians 4:22, 24). Then we must "put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil" (Ephesians 6:11).

These items of spiritual clothing—the power of the Holy Spirit, the light of God's presence, the new man in Christ, the resurrection life of the indwelling Christ, His imputed righteousness and holiness and all our spiritual armor—provide the foundation clothing for beautiful spiritual jewels and accessories. "Ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: . . . Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; . . . And above all these things put on charity |love|" (Colossians 3:9-10, 12, 14). HMM

For more . . . .

Truth is better!

They truly know that but just keep deluding themselves everyday!

Please just take a little time out of your time and read this interview to see how some ATHEIST argue blindly, it happens here on NL too!

This is an interview between an open-minded skeptic 'victor J. Zammit' and a close-minded skeptic 'J Zwingi Randi'.

Victor: Now, in the last forty years, have you properly investigated the paranormal?
Randi: Yes!

Victor: In forty years, have you ever accepted any aspect of the evidence for any paranormal phenomenon and the afterlife?
Randi: No, never because, because my investigations show the paranormal and the afterlife do not exist

Victor: Could you speak a little louder and repeat the last part you said after because
Randi: I SAID THAT THE PARANORMAL AND THE AFTERLIFE DO NOT EXIST did you hear that?

Victor: Very clearly THANK YOU! In the last forty years have you come across information that highly professional scientists – physicists, biologists, chemists and other professional paranormal and afterlife investigators came to the conclusion that the paranormal is valid and the afterlife exists?
Randi: The paranormal and the afterlife are for people who believe in fairies

Victor: THAT’S NOT WHAT I ASKED. ANSWER THE QUESTION
Randi: Yes yes.. I know there are those who claim that

Victor: Being made aware of the fact that scientists confirmed that the paranormal is valid, ON WHAT BASIS then do you NOT accept any of the claims by scientists that there is an afterlife and that the paranormal exists?
Randi:The afterlife is for people who believe in Santa Clause

Victor: Now, would that be your answer when the applicant says she should have passed the initial test of the challenge?
Randi: ( hesitates then in a whisper) No!

Victor: Have you ever stated specifically, WHERE, WHEN, HOW and WHY these scientists are wrong about their positive results of the paranormal?
Randi: (Hesitates)

Victor: ANSWER THE QUESTION!
Randi: I don’t remember. Maybe I did that in the past sometime

Victor: I PUT IT TO YOU THAT YOU NEVER DID - OTHEREWISE WE’D HAVE A COPY OF IT, RIGHT? I remind you - you are on oath here.
Randi: No, I never stated where, when, how and why the scientists were wrong

Victor: Have you ever read the afterlife scientific evidence which amounts to absolute proof by that brilliant Professor of physics Dr Jan W Vandersande
Randi: No!

Victor: NO? Did he not try very hard to take up your challenge? And as soon as you realized he was a physicist who had scientific proof for the paranormal and the afterlife, SOMEONE WHO WAS GOING TO BURST YOUR HOAX BUBBLE you just SLAMMED THE DOOR SHUT IN HIS FACE so that he’ll go away and save you embarrassment and a million dollars?
Randi: I don’t remember!!!

Victor: Always the very famous line, “I don’tremember”. Do you remember the name of John Benneth who wanted to apply for your challenge but you slammed the door in his face because he showed the potential to beat the challenge?
Randi: Can’t say I remember him
In this interview Randi denies he didn't remember more than TEN people that want to take up his challenge

Victor: Did you come across that very important research, now a book, A SCIENTIFIC ARGUMENT FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE PARANORAL by Chris Carter from Oxford University?
Randi: No!

Victor: Of course not! Did you read the afterlife scientific classics proving the afterlife by that brilliant physicist Sir Oliver Lodge?
Randi: NO

Victor: Have you read the works of Professor David Fontana - once a skeptic but on investigating the afterlife he accepted the paranormal and the afterlife?
Randi: Never heard of him

Victor: Naturally enough are you not impressed by what this Professor stated - that in addition to his own investigation of the evidence for the afterlife, he came across critical information which showed that TWELVE NOBEL LAUREATE SCIENTISTS accepted the paranormal AFTER they investigated the paranormal?
Randi: They're all wrong

Victor: But you don't say WHY they are wrong?
Randi: No I don't have to

Victor: Have you ever heard of the empirical paranormal research of Dr Dean Radin
Randi: Yes, I have but he’s wrong about what he says.

Victor: Why is he wrong?
Randi: Because the paranormal does not exist, THAT’S WHY!

Victor: But have you shown WHY his evidence is not valid?
Randi: I couldn’t be bothered

To reserve space I didn't paste it all and skip some too. As usual some atheist will bury their head as if they didn't see this thread after they might have viewed it.

You can read the detail here...
http://www.victorzammit.com/articles/crossexaminationnumberPARTONE.htm

Beretta92: Interesting! Why does it happen mostly during rainy season and hv u personally observed it happening in dry season?

This is another expirence from different country. Without Iron nothing like god of Iron, without water nothing like mami water, without rain nothing like thunder so people that use it to do evil know the best time they can use it. The purpose of 'lightning and thunder' is to breaks condense water and bring rain but some people know how to manipulate it to hurt people just like the way God used it to save my village from evil accident.


I witnessed one when there is no traces of a single rain drop.

Have you browse about paranormal? Stop deluding yourself.

Beretta92: @ Emusan,nice story but stories like dis usually hv inconsistences when analyzed n investigated. Moreover,it happened 18 yrs ago.i guess u must hv been quite young n didnt knw what really happened,n hv based yr claims on retellings by superstitious adults. BTW, do u know dat trees, n rocks dat contain conductive subtances are potential targets of lightning(which is simply electricity)? dats y it's advised nt 2 stay under trees n 2 maintain minimum contact with d ground during lightning strikes. and do u think d same natural processes were necessary for the lightning in yr story or it came 4rm a certain spiritual source?

@bold-this is the major problem most atheist have, forgotten that there're some events that happened paranormally but they usually equate everything to science. Once paranormal is real in life then what most of you called superstition must truly have occured, beside most people all over the world have the same superstition story of yours before science came. Does it mean they were in the same place before they reach agreement? No!
If I'm still young, does it mean I lack reality of what I see? I said I went there to see it.

@color-Concerning some trees or rocks that have certain element to receiving lightning, just give me one element name that can receive lightning in them. If some trees or rocks have some certain elements that make them prone to thunder striking them it shouldn't be one tree or rock out of thousands of trees or rocks in the universe.

If I even say ok some trees or rocks have those element indeed, what about the one that happened inside a house?

It came from spiritual source because nature can't answer prayer.

Let me support my statement above with this verse in the Bible

Job 38:25 "Who has divided........, a way for the lightning of thunder;"

Beretta92: what else could natural phenomena be than processes spurred by the forces of nature e.g evaporation n condensation lead to precipitation i.e rainfall.do u think lightning isn't a natural phenomenon? If yes,tell me why n how.dats y i opened dis thread n not for u to create a strawman to hold on to.

Nice answer! That's why I demanded for your view on natural phenomenon.

I don't know maybe you're among those that believe in existence of a supreme being or not, but if truly you want to hear the truth and accept that's why I'm going through this process to explain myself to you.

In 1995, something happened in my home town "Okeagbe Akoko in Ondo state". There's one federal road that link Ikare Akoko to my home town and to Oyin Akoko. This road was constructed in early 1990, shortly after the construction of the road terrible accident usually occur at a point along the road very close to that point there was a small ROCK. Later it was revealed by many churches that (not only my church oooo) that rock has been bewitched by evil spirit, then serious prayer was raised for God's intervention. That faithful day, it seems like it will be rain and the rain just fall small for some minutes and stop but before it stoped there is a great lightning follow by a great thunder that strike that day. Later, when the rain stoped people discover that "that same rock has been shaltered into piece as if they use dyanimite to blast a rock, some people went there to see it and came back that they saw splashing of bloods in the place but no dead animal there. I didn't go there but there is a place you can stand and be looking at the path the thunder created just as if bulldozer works in that place "everything along its path was uprooted both trees and grasses". After the incident accident stoped.

There is a big tree at the centre of the market (not the only tree in that market), it was also revealed that it has been bewitched. The day God shows His mighty power 'just like that rock', as thunder strike it uproots the tree and people can see at the centre of the stem there is a hole "inside the hole was found local pots, spoons e.t.c" I saw it with my na.ked eyes. The incident happened around 4-5pm not overnight.

I don't know how your state/place is far I would've said you can confirm the story above. Okeagbe is the HQ of Akoko N/W LG, in Ondo state.

If natural phenomenon in case of thunder occurs without a supreme being and purpose:

Why is it that rock among others?
Why is it only that tree because trees are many there?

If I wasn't there I wouldn't have believed.

Evolutionist believe till date that nothing like paranormal in nature but some open-minded scientist all over the world some are atheist, freethinker, rationalist have proved beyond any doubt that there're paranormal occurences in nature, yet Dawkins buries his head and pretend no such thing like paranormal. You can browse about paranormal and see if truly you want the truth as your Op implies.

benalvino: So why all the noise that only 144,000 will go to heaven. na wao

It depends on who you ask. Examples are here on NL you can see different interpretations in Bible that's why I usually advise christians to read Bible on their own with the help of the HolySpirit. Thanks

benalvino: Where are the great multitude? I really dont get the point you were trying to make though.

The great multitudes are the total number of 144,000 tribes of Israel and the rest of people in the whole world. Remember the author said "..which no one could number".

Alfa Seltzer: Sorry, I can't get that. Just explain here. Are you saying that all other versions of the bible are wrong and only the king james red bible is correct? How do you know what the red lettering denotes? It may not even be what you think. You want to attribute words to jesus using a non conjugated bible while discarding other more researched and better written ones. Christian logic at work.

Way of prolonging matter. Someone quotes Bible you said the word isn't from Jesus and I advice you to get a Bible where Jesus words were all highlighted in red color yet you keep twisting yourself.

Then if you know you can't get the Bible 'enilove' has spoken it is left for you to decide.

benalvino: I was told by some religious group that only 140000 will go to heaven when I was growing up..
till today I still hear that doctrine so I want it to be examined. There are over 6billion people today plus the countless billions that are dead from 6000 years ago. How can one conclude that out of the billions of people only 144000 will go to heaven. Is that what the bible really teach?

When you have centered your mind that Bible is just a book then every verse in the Bible will continue to seem fake.

Let's look at the very verse critically Rev 7:4 "And I heard the number of those who were sealed.[full stop not comma] One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:"

@bold notice the puntuation mark "full stop not comma".

The first line is a complete phrase "And I heard(see) the number of those who were sealed."

Then the writer continue to explain only number of people revealed to him in his on tribe "One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:"

And then he completed the sentence verse 4 first line in verse 9 "After these things(that is, after the angel has sealed everyone) I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb,......."

If you look at the names mention in verse 9 they are all in plural form.

God will help us to understand His word.

Alfa Seltzer: The author of the gospel of John.

Jesus stopped speaking on verse 15. You could even see the inverted commas that mark end of speech. But the author continued on his own in verse 16. Read it again.

Get a King James Red Bible all the words that Jesus spoken were written in RED letter.

Just an advice sha...

Alfa Seltzer: Lie @ bolded! Jesus didn't say that.

So my dear, "When writing something that is open for everyone to read, you need to know and be sure you are knowledgeable concerning what the subject is ."

Who said the word if not Jesus?

Beretta92: seriously? Are u in kindergarten??

No! Simple question just explain how you view your own natural phenomenon, that's what I asked.