₦airaland Forum

@Evil Brain

Try to read message and digest it before you reply. Where did you see it in my Op that carbon-14 is being used for dating earth?

It was stated clearly in my Op that Carbon-14 is use to date once living things because all living things absorb carbon-14 and carbon-12 through food and breathing it can't be used to date ROCK. The title read "why earth could not as old as billion years" I didn't say 14C is used to date earth.

Scientist aware carbon-14 is not constant but ignore the nonequilibrium by Libby and the result derive from 14C dating are still hold as true til date.

What you fail to notice is that nobody says scientist didn't use many method of dating but the assumption in their work to calibrate the instrument uses to arrive at specific figure is what is in question not the method. the method and calculation might be correct but give wrong concluding figure.

Dr. Libby the founder of radiocarbon dating in his early work believe that for 14C to reach equilibrium it will take 30,000years but today 14C is still out of equilibrium which means earth isn't yet up to 30,000years then compare to another result that gives billion years. Definitely if you study those methods you will see a critical assumption because most of them(scientists) believe in EVOLUTION so earth must be old to support their claim.

I believe you know that dealing with the PAST needs some kind of assumption because nobody was there and to witness the event.

Freksy: A fat lie, the writer of Genesis never clarified that. Perhaps the prof wants christian folks to keep clinging on to the fallacy of a 24-hour day to make rebuttal easier for them in their debate.

Did you believe in progressive creation of billion years too or you just want to show that Genesis creation is not taking place in 24hrs?

It would be baseless assumption if I say a creative day was a 24-hour day. The writer of Gen never said so. He shows creative day was different from man's solar day - the former is longer in length; no one knows exactly, though.

Where is it stated that creative days was different from our solar day?

And if no man knows exactly then why can't we just agree that God created everything in just 6days as we know the meaning of day today?

Man will keep flip-flopping and updating until their facts are well established. In the end, they will not contradict, but confirm the truth as found in the bible. Many claim that science disproves the Bible’s account of creation. However, the real contradiction is, not between science and the Bible, but between science and the opinions of Christian Fundamentalists. It's false assertion that all physical creation was produced in six 24-hour days approximately 10,000 years ago. A careful study of the Bible text reveals no conflict with established scientific facts.

It will contradict my Brother! As it is today some scientists begin to observe that earth could not as old as billions years because; 1) In 1845 German scientist Carl was the first person to keep tabs on Earth's magnetic field that the Earth's magnetic field is getting weaker as it is today it has been 10times weaker that what Carl noticed in 1845. [b]1845 till date is not up to 200years interval and it was noticed to be 10times weaker then if Earth is billion years it will have faded away. 2) Earth is losing its inner core temperature every day by day to bring atmosphere in equilibrium, if Earth is losing its temperature and at about 12ft down water will boil then we shouldn't be able to find any hot region on Earth crust then if Earth is billion years old.

See this thread for more....
https://www.nairaland.com/1347981/why-earth-could-not-old

If a result now shows that Earth can not be more than 10,000years it will contradict progressive creation who claims earth is as old as billion years.

The above, like a literal 24-hour creative day, lack scriptural support, so, I don't believe them.

If you think so.

What of 168 hrs, 720 hrs, and 8,784 hrs , that is ........ 1 week, 1 month and 1 year respectively? Do they also connote "instantly"?

You didn't get the message here. I said the word HOUR-one which is like 1hrs not HOURS-as many. If Bible uses the word 'Hour' as quick action/instantly then the word 'day-24hrs' is enough for a longer event to take place.

There is always a lag between command and action. Also, every action has length - completion time. Genesis creation account shows each creative day had a time gap of more than 24 hours....Think about some things that happened on day 6 - creation of man and all kinds of animals, planting of garden, naming of all the animals (including birds of the heavens) by Adam, Adam's deep sleep etc.

Today we are still multiplying (action). God's rest continued till the time of Paul (it was action in progress).

Remember we have some verses that support short time also. That's why I said we should just agree with OP day-24hrs because no one fully understand the process. I only argue that Earth could not as old as some scientists thought of.

How old is Earth?
My best answer to this question is; well God created everything in the universe in time when no man could fully understand the process in just 6days according to God's word.

I've studied the way scientist determine their own age but full of critical assumption likewise some creationist no specific age, so I come to conclusion on some event that happen around the globe i.e Losing of inner Temperature, Fading of Magnetic Field e.t.c that Earth could not as old as billion/million years but thousand years which I can't give its specific figure.

texaco1: this is the puzzling question , which makes the news non reliable , there are many christian broadcasting stations that would have carried the story if it is true

@bold
I'm a creationist we don't push anything on air without real source. That's why I said I'm still doing research about it.

Alexcee: "Unfortunately, the mainstream media is so anti-Christian, they might not even pick up this story," he explains. "But God is real. We have proof. And everyone deserves to hear the truth."

Even if the discovery was true the statement above will surely hinder it because about 70% of NASA scientist are anti-christian.

But why only on africa website?

Though still doing more research on that.....

tobechi74: Nobody fully understands God

Then, the little one you understand about Him. What are you doing about it?

@Op
I always feel sad base on what we christians have turn God to today. Everyday church's population increases but looking at what is going on around the world is pure evil everyday, no fear of God, no love of God e.t.c very sadden!

I say yes Lord!

In Dr. Libby’s original work, he noted that the atmosphere did not appear to be in equilibrium. This was a troubling idea for Dr. Libby since he believed the world was billions of years old and enough time had passed to achieve equilibrium. Dr. Libby’s calculations showed that if the earth started with no 14C in the atmosphere, it would take up to 30,000 years to build up to a steady state (equilibrium). If the cosmic radiation has remained at its present intensity for 20,000 or 30,000 years, and if the carbon reservoir has not changed appreciably in this time, then there exists at the present time a complete balance between the rate of disintegration of radiocarbon atoms and the rate of assimilation of new radiocarbon atoms for all material in the life-cycle.

Dr. Libby choose to ignore this discrepancy (nonequilibrium state), and he attributed it to experimental error. However, the discrepancy has turned out to be very real. The ratio of 14 C / 12 C is not constant.
The Specific Production Rate (SPR) of 14C is known to be 18.8 atoms per gram of total carbon per minute. The Specific Decay Rate (SDR) is known to be only 16.1 disintegrations per gram per minute. What does this mean? If it takes about 30,000 years to reach equilibrium and 14C is still out of equilibrium, then maybe the earth is not very old.

Magnetic Field of the Earth
This another factor that can affect the 14C, The stronger the field is around the earth, the fewer the number of cosmic rays that are able to reach the atmosphere. This would result in a smaller production of 14C in the atmosphere in earth’s past. The cause for the long term variation of the 14C level is not known. The variation is certainly partially the result of a change in the cosmic ray production rate of radiocarbon.

This history of the earth’s magnetic field agrees with Barnes’ basic hypothesis, that the field has always freely decayed. The field has always been losing energy despite its variations, so it cannot be more than 10,000 years old. Earth’s magnetic field is fading. Today it is about 10 percent weaker than it was when German mathematician Carl Friedrich Gauss started keeping tabs on it in 1845, scientists say.

Other factor which skeptics may not agree on is the Genesis Flood but the global flood would've buried many 14C that cause coals, oil e.t.c.

14C dating is the best dating but with wrong assumption of nonequillibrium, if the assumption is wrong definitely we will have wrong concluding dating.

Again, magnetic field of earth goes against billions years because if Carl Friedrich could notice it in 1845 and today it's ten times weaker than what he observed in 1845 then if earth is billions years the magnetic field would have faded out.

Let's see how carbon-14 dating is being carried out on fossilized materials.

Some isotopes of certain elements are unstable; they can spontaneously change into another kind of atom in a process called “radioactive decay.” Since this process presently happens at a known measured rate, scientists attempt to use it like a “clock” to tell how long ago a rock or fossil formed.

Carbon-14 Dating:
(Isoptope of carbon exist in three phases 14C, 13C & 12C).
Carbon-14 is mostly used to date once-living things (organic material). It cannot be used directly to date rocks; however, it can potentially be used to put time constraints on some inorganic material such as diamonds (diamonds could contain carbon-14). Because of the rapid rate of decay of 14C, it can only give dates in the thousands of year range and not millions. Radioactive means that 14C will decay (emit radiation) over time and become a different element. During this process (called “beta decay”) a neutron in the 14C atom will be converted into a proton. Once 14C is produced in the atmosphere by cosmic ray, it combines with oxygen in the atmosphere ( 12C behaves like 14C and also combines with oxygen) to form carbon dioxide (CO2 ). Because CO2 gets incorporated into plants (which means the food we eat contains 14C & 12C), all living things should have the same ratio of 14C & 12C in them as in the air we breathe.

How the Carbon-14 Dating Process Works
Once a living thing dies, the dating process begins. As long as an organism is alive it will continue to take in 14C; however, when it dies, it will stop. Since 14C is radioactive (decays into 14N), the amount of 14C in a dead organism gets less and less over time. Therefore, part of the dating process involves measuring the amount of 14C that remains after some has been lost (decayed). Scientists now use a device called an “Accelerator Mass Spectrometer” (AMS) to determine the ratio of 14C to 12C, which increases the assumed accuracy to about 80,000 years. Two critical questions before dating:
1. How fast does 14C decay?
2. What was the starting amount of 14C in the creature when it died?
The decay rate of radioactive elements is described in terms of half-life. The half-life of an atom is the amount of time it takes for half of the atoms in a sample to decay. The half-life of 14C is 5,730 years. Since the half-life of 14C is known (how fast it decays), the only part left to determine is the starting amount of 14C in a fossil. If scientists know the original amount of 14C in a creature when it died, they can measure the current amount and then calculate how many half-lives have passed. Since no one was there to measure the amount of 14C when a creature died, scientists need to find a method to determine how much 14C has decayed. To do this, scientists use the main isotope of carbon, called carbon-12 (12C). Because 12C is a stable isotope of carbon, it will remain constant; however, the amount of 14C will decrease after a creature dies. All living things take in carbon (14C and 12C) from eating and breathing. Therefore, the ratio of 14C to 12C in living creatures will be the same as in the atmosphere. This ratio turns out to be about one 14C atom for every 1 trillion 12C atoms. Scientists can use this ratio to help determine the starting amount of 14C. When an organism dies, this ratio (1 to 1 trillion) will begin to change.

A Critical Assumption
A critical assumption used in carbon-14 dating has to do with this ratio. It is assumed that the ratio of 14C to 12C in the atmosphere has always been the same as it is today (1 to 1 trillion). If this assumption is true, then the AMS 14C dating method is valid up to about 80,000 years. Beyond this number, the instruments scientists use wouldn't be able to detect enough remaining 14C to be useful in age estimates. This is a critical assumption in the dating process. If this assumption is not true, then the method will give incorrect dates. What could cause this ratio to change? If the production rate of 14C in the atmosphere is not equal to the removal rate (mostly through decay). In other words, the amount of 14C being produced in the atmosphere must equal the amount being removed to be in a steady state (also called “equilibrium”). If this is not true, the ratio of 14C to 12C is not constant, which would make knowing the starting amount of 14C in a specimen difficult or impossible to be accurately determine.

Dr. Willard Libby, the founder of the carbon-14 dating method, assumed this ratio to be constant. His reasoning was based on a belief in evolution, which assumes the earth must be billions of years old. Assumptions in the scientific community are extremely important. If the starting assumption is false, all the calculations based on that assumption might be correct but still give a wrong conclusion.

[quote author=Okiki_Oluwa]Thread Re-Opened!
Hm! What about the African ancestors that died after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You know, Christianity is not up to 500 years in Nigeria. The ancestors of the Yorubas, Ibos, Hausas etc Kingdoms that existed over 1000-2000 years ago were idol worshippers. Where ll their soul go to?[/quote]Christians will continue to have difficulty with people's of the world when they fail to read the 'word of God' with the help of the Holyspirit.

Like some people have said earlier our forefathers who has done good work will go to heaven is totally right but they must hear the voice of Jesus first.

Let's see the book of John; "John 5:25-29; 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

At verse 25-bolded; made us to understand that Jesus will raise His voice unto the dead and they shall hear Him, and they that hear shall live.

At second bold- verses 28-29 made us to understand that the dead shall surely hear His voice (at the beginning of verse 29 this phrase appear "And shall come forth...." which means after they hear the voice of Jesus they will also come out from their dead position. Then the remaining sentence in verse 29 completed it all "...they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation".

Immediately Jesus was glorified everything begin to manifest that's what happen in Mathew 27:52-53 I quoted qbove. The voice of Jesus is still crying in the grave today to those who haven't received the gospel before they died.

That's why Jesus has commanded us to go into the world and preach the gospel.

Jesus said in; John 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin".

And finally, Jesus said in; Math 24:16 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

The voice of Jesus that is shouting in the grave and the voice of christians(either to make money or not) shouting in the street, media, social netwrok e.t.c shall fulfilled the promise of that Mathew 24:14.

Shalom!

Freksy: Emusan, do you also share the same disbelief as the professor regarding the authenticity of Genesis account of creation? If no, why?

No! because I believe in Genesis creation account. I only cited him as an example, he didn't believe in 24hrs/day of creation but clearly state that, the writer make it clears that it happens within 24hrs.

A 24-hour day reference would be impossible for the first three days. This is because, while the sun and moon were evidently created before the first three days, the fourth day was the first day that the sun and moon were “placed” so as to cause a “division between the day and the night...as signs for...days and years” (1:14). The 24 hour day is dependant on the sun’s relationship with the Earth. Only on the fourth day was the sun “established” - 1:16 or “set” - 1:17 so as to cause this division.

You miss a point here by not carefully study the statement of that Genesis 1:2-God said let there be LIGHT(singular) not lights(plural) while in Genesis 1:14-God said let there be LIGHTs(plural) not light(singular). can you see the difference? Again at the beginning of each verses this statement appear "....Let there be....." which stand at the beginning of every creations. If God only places lights (sun & moon) to cause division of days & nights it means it wasn't created but it was just positioning---then this statement "Let there be" cannot reappear infront of verse 14 again.

Furthermore, if the sixth “day” was only 24 hours long why would there be a concern for Adam becoming lonely? The context indicates that for a lengthy time Adam developed a longing as he saw that there was no complement for him (2:18-20). His exclamation indicated Adam had anticipated Eve for some time: “Then the man said, “This one at last...” Gen 2:23 - NET, NABRE, GNT, GNTCE, NRSVCE, NRSV, RSV; The Man said, “Finally! ..." MSG.
Verse 20 shows Adam even named all the animals, including birds, before God provided a companion for him. All these activities do not seem to be describing the last part of a literal 24 hour day!

Going by the way of anticipating the creation account in Genesis has seems not too perfect by humans because we believe we are more accurate in our thinking and reasoning, remember this is God's word no assumption is expecting to interpret it that's why I said early that we should just agree with OP, God said He created everything in a 'day' meanwhile today we all know what a day means literally.

I agree with you on Radiometric dating - it's not infallible system. My stance, as you can see, is majorly rooted in the scriptures. This, of course, does not mean I disregard results that are factual from radio clocks. Established scientific facts have never contradicted bible truth, but confirmed it. They enhance our understanding of what God created and bear witness to His existence. It's Him that makes it easy for our material world to be seen clearly.- Rom 1:19-20.

My worry is that who may says what might happen to all this research of dating tomorrow? I mean what if another result come out later and declear that our universe is less than TEN thousand years old, what will be the fate of progressive creation that supported MILLIONs of years?

Scientist that published it everywhere both in textbooks, media, internet e.t.c that LIFE started in ocean, is the same theory most scientist now rejecting unless some adanmant ones.

The same scientist that claim human evolve from ape-like but recently a research claim that "it has a great implecations the way they interpret the ape-man bone found.

And many more...

Someone like me I don't claim earth was billions or thousands years but I do believe in Genesis creation's account as literally 24hours.

I cited this example in first page of this thread as 'HOUR' appears more than 50-times in the Bible but anywhere the word hour is being used connote 'instantly'. If the word hour=instant what of 24hours? Remember the phrase "let there be...." in any creation account usually end with "and it was so..." which means "Command and action". Anyway I'm not here to prove you wrong but just to let you know that if God speaks let's say yes to it, instead of puting our own fallible assumption.

Shallom!

plaetton: We don't know and we definitely not afraid or ashamed to say so. There is a relentless and ongoing quest to know more and more each day.
For all we know, biological life could have sprung in way we do not yet understand, some 50 billion years ago in far away galaxy 50 billion light years from our milky way galaxy.
So what?
Therefore the silly fables of stone age dwellers are better for you?
Why are you in mortal fear of being wrong?
Are you a hostage to something, perhaps a belief system?

No time outside post of yours to my question than your answer.

Now that scientists don't know how life begins on earth then;

*Does random mutations and natural selection really take place on first life? Only if one life started it all!

*How are they sure that only one life started the whole lives on earth?

Please kindly go straight to the questions no trolling.

plaetton: Well, everything that happens in the universe, with no exceptions, happens as result of an infinite series of chance events.

Your very presence on this forum, thread, and your reading this very message are as an infinite series of chance events today alone, let alone the past 6 months.
6 months ago , did you plan and design to be her at this very moment, reading and responding to this post?.
I am guessing the answer is no.

Evolution is in everything, including your feelings, your values, your imaginations and your thoughts.
I am sure you have heard it before that "Change is the only constant in the universe".

The change referred to here is Evolution.
It is the only constant in the universe.

I know if you are being asked, what is evolution? You won't place it on chance which many atheist on this forum have totally denied.

I always laugh when evolutionist present pre-existing matters as real.

They claim random mutations and natural selection are behind all what we could observe as living things today whereas origin of life itself is unknown.

I put it to any atheist to answer, HOW LIFE BEGIN IN the UNIVERSE, is it on Land, sea e.t.c?

Uyi Iredia: ^^^ says the dude who kills logic. "Atheism is not the belief that God does not exist." says logicboy. LOL !

Logicboy is very funny, he might have forgotten that two negative words mean 'positive'.

Wonderful resemble one of my early thread "Christianity is not a Religion"

Wait ooo, this is my first time of commenting on FROSBEL thread.

Quess what...... Lol

At the OP let's read these two verses together Math 27:52-53 "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many".
According to Bible scholars they believed through these verses that when Jesus died, He didn't rest in His dead position but to preach to those who didn't know God in their lifetime and those who believes in His teaching were resurrected with Him in that verse 53.

Shallom!

@Fresky,

Let me say this, you have really tried in your post but as the OP has said let's subscribe into it not by playing intelligent to the word of God.

Dr. James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University, who himself does not believe Genesis is true history, admitted the following, as far as the language of Genesis 1 is concerned:
So far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Gen. 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience.

I believe if not for fossilized dating of billion years nobody would have thought of altering 24hours day to thousands or billions of years. What some christians who buy the ideas of radio dating fail to know is that, some assumptions were included in radiometric dating. Then how are we sure if these assumptions were true? Scientists can't do without assumption especially when dealing with the past or try to freeze the time and travel to the past.

Finally, The “war of the worldviews” is not ultimately one of young earth versus old earth, or billions of years versus six days, or creation versus evolution—the real battle is the authority of the Word of God versus man’s fallible theories.

Very interesting! I will reply later.

FOLYKAZE: How can you say the bible is the word of God when Mark 16:9-20 was added by the church?

Bible is the word of God!

Mark 16:9-20 you're refering to has been a great confusion for skeptics to hold that it's not in original text of the hebrew book but what they fail to understand was that it's being refered to as a 'FOOTNOTE' in today's version.

Truly it wasn't there in original text. The original text stops at verse 8 but in today's version verse 8 end with this phrase ",.......for they were afraid." but at the end of this verse 8 in original text this statement was omitted and one manuscript has it after verse 8 (omitting verses 9-20): Then they quickly reported all these instructions to those around Peter. After this, Jesus himself also sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. Amen.

@colorbold- this is what later translated to verses 9-20 and if you read and compare this statement with that verses 9-20 it perfectly fits into them.

Shallom!!!

FOLYKAZE: psalm 46; Is this what proceed from God?


How can you say the bible is word of God when King James in 1610 commanded his men who were translating the bible into English, to insert the name of his good friend, “Shakespear “, into the 46th Psalms as a 46 birthday gift. William Shakespear was 46 years old in 1610 the year that the bible was completed being translated into English. Get a King James Version of the bible & count 46 words starting with the first word in Psalms 46 you will come to Shake, and if you count 46 words up from the last word {refuge} In Psalms 46 you will get to Spear. {Note: The updated version of the bible have replaced the word “shake” with the word “quake” in an attempt to cover up this forgery.}

See another delusion! So because shake & spear appear in Psalm 46 and if you count it from up & down you will see 46 words before each words means King James used it to compensate his friend's effort. If you're the one to insert your name, will you allow your name to be scartered like that? First name 'shake' appear in verse 3 & the last name appear in verse 9. If you read the whole chapter carefully without being close-minded you will know the whole chapter is talking about the mighty work of God. Though they may change change the word 'spare' to another word just to make it clearer.

Afterall you're a christian before you become an atheist and nobody stops you because you fail to conceived the real word of God into your heart which I always pray that God in His infinite mercy will locate those who has missed it somewhere.

Like I always say I'm not a pastor and I don't own any any church so that you won't think I want to deceive you with my words but I have many personal evidence to claim that God exist.

Shallom!!!

Kay 17: Whenever I do something bad or good, I don't see spirits and neither do I lose selfcontrol.

But there's a spirit behind all actions, and your conscience is there to convince you either good or bad action.

If you want to feel any power of external spirit then you must follow the procedure of people who have experienced the same.

That doesn't prove God is omniscient.

I didn't answer this question. God is omniscient because all natural laws broke out from Him. He knows the right chemicals He puts together that made up life under normal atmospheric condition and power to make them reproduce according to their kinds. He is the one that wrote DNA informations and created biometric molecules to compiled it. He also knows what dark energy is made up e.t.c

Kay 17: In other words, the best evidence for spirits is within the subjective experience of a few people?

No! Not subjective to some people but everyone either a good spirit or a bad spirit. You can't tell me that everybody loves you. The spirit that makes some people to hate you is a bad spirit which sometimes you may possess as a person.

That doesn't at all prove the omniscience of God, rather proves man's limited knowledge. So I ask again, how do you know God is omniscient?

What beyond the relm of science has to do with supernatural which God has claimed. 'A supernatural Being'.

If man has limited knowledge;

*why man then seeking the most powerful, all-knowing God with their finite wisdom empirically?

*why man always place himself in the position of God Almighty?

Mudley313: Here ya go...
* the bat is a bird (Lev. 11:19, Deut. 14:11, 18)

Point one Bible didn't mention BIRD I believe you add that one to support your false claim. This is where the Bible verse started from Lev 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
NOTE: the fowls there was translated from HEBREW word OWPH meaning every flying creature. Does bat fly or walk?

* some fowls are four-footed (Lev. 11:20-21)

Again another lie to cover your claim. Bible didn't say they have four feet. Notice the bold here; Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;

they have two legs and two wings!

* some creeping insects have four legs. (Lev. 11:22-23)

Nothing like insect in that verse. The question you should ask from that verse is, what are these four feet creeping things? because Bible didn't mention them.

* hares chew the cud (Lev. 11:6)
* conies chew the cud (Lev. 11:5)

The hebrew word where hares & coney was translated is "SAPHAN" which can best describe as "HYRAX" though there's a little misusage of this word in translation of Bible by King James but at original text it was not so.

* camels don't divide the hoof (Lev. 11:4)

Remember camel hoof is only split halfway not as you thing.

* the earth was formed out of and by means of water (2 Peter 3:5 RSV)

please what support your own evidence that earth was not formed out of water?

* the earth rest on pillars (1 Sam. 2:
* the earth won't be moved (1 Chron. 16:30)

You misconstructe the message passing by the writer, earth rest on NOTHING Job Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

* the rainbow is not as old as rain and sunshine (Gen. 9:13)

Do you believe early earth atmosphere doesn't have free oxygen? Which means water couldn't have formed in the early atmosphere.

* a mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds and grows into the greatest of all shrubs (Matt. 13:31-32 RSV)

Jesus statement here was directly for people He was addressing which in BLACK mustard seed was the smallest then and if Jesus talks about unknown seed how His PARABLE will be understood.

* turtles have voices (Song of Sol. 2:12)

You miss the real message there. The same verse says "brirds are singing". Is just a figurative phrase!

* the earth has ends or edges (Job 37:3)
* the earth has four corners (Isa. 11:12, Rev. 7:1)

You miss it here again, Job is talking about how God is directing lightning from North-South and West-East. While Isaiah was talking about FOUR CARDINAL ponit.

[qoute]* some 4-legged animals fly (Lev. 11:21)[/quote]Prove it wrong

* the world's language didn't evolve but appeared suddenly (Gen. 11:6-9)

This is even one thing that prove evolution wrong, language didn't evolve!

* a fetus can understand speech (Luke 1:44)

It didn't happen in the Bible, it has happened in this Nigeria. Try to browse the history of 'Moses' founder of Cherubim & Seraphim Church.

* the moon is a light source like the sun (Gen 1:16)

It's a lie! Compare to this verse Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light".....

If Moon has light Jesus could not have said after the darkeness of the Sun, Moon won't give its light. You simply misconstruct the statement there also.

Read more here......
https://www.nairaland.com/1305164/things-only-god-could-known

gbadexy: I know God is the good guy and satan is evil. Satan worship world over consists of blood rituals and evil/ negative energy. Witches and wizards are 100% real and the type whether black or red simply depends on the type of jinn attached to the witch and they report to devil. I have fair idea about that. The satan doesn't even send his worshipers.
God encourages goodness and rewards for it. Most laws of all religion is about goodness to fellow man and only a single one about worshiping Him.
I just have problem with divinity of jesus, and seeming game by God and satan with humans as the pun. Islam and christianity admitted as much that satan said he would mislead humans and God said he should try and see with satan given the powers of various temptation and humans just warning.
I'm musing loud now. Perhaps God knows what satan would do before creating him and this life is just a testing ground to sieve out worthy creatures or why would He ask satan to bow to man in the first place.
Maybe satan is the real pun from the beginning to use in testing man.
I worship •̸Ϟ•̸y creator though and try to do good. I guess we all would find out the truth after death. Death is an adventure I'm not in a hurry to experience but look forward to after fulfillment on earth.

What most people fail to know is that "our God has emotion" too. I can see someone quote Isaiah talking about God creating "evil" is true because He's the one who created Satan. In Genesis 3 where we read that devil deceived Eve, if you read it carefully when God came to pay them visit and they told God they're naked; and God asked Adam, how did you know you're naked? Adam replied "the woman you gave me enticed me to eat the fruit. Immediately God asked the woman; and the woamn said it is serpent(devil) that enticed her to eat but to the serpent; He couldn't find anyone to acuse! Meaning any action performed by satan it's self-will. "though God knows about it" Before God begins to curse them.

Bible scholars have looked into the scenaro and concluded that the SPIRIT that God used to create Angels is totally different from that man (that's why God still call them to witness the creation of man).

Give more detail tomorrow!

Kay 17: What is a spirit? How is it perceived?

Spirit is an unseen being that can talk, act like forces, possess physical body e.t.c but no blood and water. (human being has spirit)

Whenever someone will perceive
a higher spirit that greater than human's own it will look as if a hug of force descended on the person i.e in case of the Holyspirit nobody can withstand His force, He will surely pull you down. though we have some fake pastors laying there're hands on some people using fake power to make someone fall.
I believe if atheist can look beyond the lies(just try to be open minded) that God does not exist and search for the truth they will surely find God. "Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God".

Like I always say, I believe in science more than some atheist on NL but if not because I've received the baptism of the Holyspirit I might have turn atheist today. I'm not a pastor but I solely believed in the existence of God because I have had personal encountered with Him.

How did you know that?

Human beings are limited in their knowledge like in a case of Consciousness, DNA Information, Origin of Life, Dark energy, and Afterlife they all beyond any human comprehension.

Then truly ask yourself, what makes all these things so hard for human to comprehend despite all the advancement in Technology?

Kay 17: There is no God and we don't fully understand Consciousness.

Kay 17 I don't believe this! Anyway because it's an immaterials(spirit) you can't fully understand it.

[quote author=From_Guiriga]The content inside is what makes it holy?
Can you give me a reference inside this holy book where it says it is holy?
What is holy?

Give thanks.
[/quote]Because it proceded out from God!

Shallom!!!

Mudley313: You got all that bullshit verses from "101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge" from fundamentalist christian group, Eternal Productions, that usually attempts to demonstrate the credibility of the bible by finding passages that supposedly demonstrate foreknowledge of scientific facts by finding allegorical, metaphorical, and poetic phrases, and then interpreting them to fit their point. All the parts of the bible that are scientifically wrong? Ignored.

@bold-can you quote one verse that is wrong about science in Bible?

Evil Brain: Atheists believe in what we have evidence for. I don't believe in God because there's no credible empirical evidence that such a being has ever existed.

Now you're using science as a back bone for no believing in God. Do you know that some open-minded skeptic scientists have come to conclusion that there's something 'PARANORMAL' about this nature. They said R. Dawkins is too close minded in his research to ignore aspect of paranormal.

If I may ask; what does dark energy make up/ what is happening inside the dark energy?

Atheist do believe that most people that claim God exist lack science, NO! We only try to let you people know that there are things which beyond empirical evidence or prove in this universe.

Atheists believe in rationality because it works. Like Richard Dawkins said: Planes fly, computers compute, drugs work. All the technological and medical advances humanity has ever made have only come about when people apply logic without regard to religion or superstition. Nobody has ever used the information in the bible or Koran to invent anything.

You miss it here! Informations in some religions book i.e Bible brought expansion of knowledge started from Before the birth of Christ(BC) and After His death (AD), that's why any new thing scientist discover today must be compared with what is written in the Bible.

As to our view on consciousness, there is no single atheist view. Consciousness is very difficult to define and we all have different ways of viewing it. Atheism is not a religion and we don't have any fixed dogma or shared world view. We all believe in different things, the only thing we have in common is our refusal to accept religious proclamations without evidence to back them up.

I thought you stated it earlier that through empirical evidence made you believe that there's no God, how come @bold, do you know now that afterlife has been proving true?

Atheism is a religion and the dogma or share world view of atheist are;
*matter came from energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
*human evolve from ape-like.
*nature consists ony matters (mass and energy) nothing like immaterials.
*God cannot be empirically proved.

Unless if all the above statements are wrong then atheist don't have a world view or believe in any dogma.

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OLAADEGBU: For semi-creationists who claim that the "days" of Genesis 1 must have been long periods of time, a more serious problem arises.  Genesis plainly teaches that plants appeared on Day Three, and the sun on Day Four.  But plants need sunlight for photosynthesis and cannot wait in darkness for millions of years.  If the days were long epochs, as demanded by critics of a literal Creation Week, plants could not survive.

@bold - That's is the major problem of any one putting on the glass of million years of evolutionary to alter the day of Genesis. I pray they will listen and learn.

Good job!!!

I just like the guy, Kudos BRF!

I can't by-pass the thread of the only man who can make me vote again in any Nigeria election. Happy 50th Birthday SIR with total respect.