₦airaland Forum

[quote author=From_Guiriga]I have not taken back my position. My initial argument is still my main argument.

I have told you they are books that were put together by man/scribes. The bible is a collection of books or writings. People chose which books to include and which books to leave out. Some authors are know and some are unknown. I mean, these and more are the facts.
Why not accept them?[/quote]@bold-Actually they're epistles puting together and called it Bible.

The bones of my contention is the content inside. Afterall all books are compile and print using electronics device. The content inside is what make It 'Holy & True' because it came out from Holyspirit. So it's a HolyBook!

hisblud: Always the same lame excuse of recycled work.... if its not God is non - existent, if the divinity is too hard for em to comprehend, they throw up that He (Jesus Christ) NEVER existed... furthermore they compare Jesus and Socrates and prefer socrates becos he was just a philosopher unlike Jesus who claimed divinity, hence their distaste for Him...una never tire... if He is a myth why all this brohaha ... why disturb your limited life?

Why??

This Jesus Christ done hear am oh? Just typed Jesus Christ on google 139 Million topic for or against Him, typed julius ceasar it showed 447, 000 and socrates showed 15 Million.

back to the topic, are you sure about the above people you posted up there?

Eyaa, kpele oh...

I dey tell you my Brother!

This is a call to all christians to increase the tempo of our call.

Like play like play Bible is fulfilling Its prophesy.

striktlymi: Morning Emusan,

Same!!!

Now can you show us where I said or implied the following:
1) God lied!
2) The creation account in Genesis is wrong.

No! I didn't say so pls.

What I mean is the view of the OP 'Day is Day' which is just 24hrs and the Genesis made it clear that it happened instantly. If event happened in a day it doesn't mean it spand from 12:00am-11:59pm but we still term it a day.

Now, if you can believe that the day talked about in Genesis is just a few hours, what then is wrong with me saying that it might just be 100,000 years? Note that I didn't even state what I believe like you did!

Well Emusan, the bold are your words not mine....when one says that the 'day' talked about in Genesis could mean a thousand years, this is not the same as the individual saying that God cannot create the Universe in an istant.

You agree that God finished the work of creation in 6 consecutive days...does this mean that God cannot finish the same task in just one day or one second?...do we now say that because God decided to do it this way then he is not omnipotent?

The point you are missing here is this: Saying that God decided to do something in a particular way is different from saying that God cannot do it.

If God choose to create the world in 6 days, evenly spread over 5 million years, then that's his choice... Sacred scriptures made us understand that the way God looks at a day is very different from the way humans look at it...

2 Peter 3:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


Psalm 90:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

This is one major reason why people get confused when Jesus said he will come soon...we expect the soon to be as man defines it but God's ways are not the ways of man.

So Emusan, I do not see any conflict between my OP and sacred scriptures...if there is any, do point it out.

Ok!

I don't think you are referring to this thread because no Atheist posted before you and no one has talked about photosynthesis.

I have change it I meant a thread.

ayenny02: that is CONTRADICTION for you

I know you will misunderstand that statement, you said any man cannot address his Mother 'woman' I now ask did Jesus say anything like Mother about the woman?

The miracle of Jonah was that he was alive for 3 days and 3 nights

If Jonah was alive for three days and three nights, then Jesus also ought to have been alive in the tomb as he himself had foretold! But Christianity hangs on the flimsy thread of the death" of Jesus for its salvation. So it has to answer that Jesus was DEAD for three days and three nights.

Jesus died on the cross of calvary and He was laid in a tomb for three days.

The contradiction  between his utterance and its fulfilment is obvious. Jonah ALIVE, Jesus DEAD! Very UNLIKE Jonah! Jesus had said "LIKE Jonah" not UNLIKE Jonah. If this is true then according to his own test Jesus is not the TRUE Messiah of the Jews. If the Gospel record is genuine then how can we blame the Jews for rejecting "CHRIST"

I will give you more detail about Jonah story just relax.

Remember you once claim that Jesus is the Messiah even Quran support it for you now to say His not the Messiah I think there something wrong somewhere.

Any 5 year old can do the Math and work out that from Friday night to sunday morning is not 3 days/3 nights!

Whos is a kid here?

Even thou Bible didn't give the actual day when Jesus was crucified I can still explain little reason they might have choosen Friday-Sunday.

Everybody will agree that Day start by 12:00AM and end by 11:59 PM. The day that Jesus was crucified it was around afternoon and He died around evening which is still part of that day.

Look at this:

12:00am(Friday)-11:59pm(Friday)
12:00am(Sat)-11:59pm(Sat)
12:00am(Sun)-11:59pm(Sun)

You can see is three days!

Remember any event that happen in a day it doesn't last through the whole day but just few hours within the day. The day you were born the event just last for few hours but it was termed as it happened for the whole day.

How do you expect me to browse any site when I have bible to refute your claims, or you don't believe in Bible again or all my claims was it not in the Bible. OLODO

I so much believe in Bible than any other books.

You claim Jesus was not crucified.

Whereas Jesus Himself made it clear that He will die. You said it's not true.

Bible mentions the name of Jesus' relatives that witness Jesus crucifixion, yet you said isn't true.

I as a friend of Jesus said My Lord was crucified, you said it's a lie.

Then Jesus enemy now said He was crucified, do you have a claim @Ayenny?

That's why I gave you that site so that you can see many Jesus' ENEMIES that testify to His crucifixion though some of them use it to mocked Him but it's a good evidence that He was crucified and exist.

You have seriously display your ignorance:

*You claim Bible contradict Itself
*You claim Jesus was the Messiah
*You claim Jesus is not the Son of God
*You claim Jesus word contradicting.
*Finally, you calim Jesus support the coming of your prophet.

Sharing knowledge with you, is like sharing knowledge with an infant.

@OLAADEGBU
Thanks for bringing this thread up! The idea of billion years by secular people is still rolling in the mind of some christians today that's why, they themselves can't speak authoritatively to support their stand in Genesis. Many christians support the billion years by looking at the natural world through the glass of evolution. Even some christians cannot say precisely that Life originated from God but you will see them saying something "well God might use evolution to make life happen". I pray we christians will continue to interpret this natural world with the power of the Holyspirit.

@strik
Please let's hold on to God's word. God cannot lie! We should know if account of creations in Genesis is wrong then the whole Bible is wrong-Note that

In the Bible the word 'Hour' occurs more than 50times but anywhere is being used it simply means 'instantly'. If Hour means 'instantly' then 'Day' I believe is just like few hours then.

Again by saying literal Day can be 100,000years it means we limited God's omnipotent, what make Him God if He cannot command and action takes place? I have seen on a thread when one atheist said in the creation of Plants there was a day, night and photosynthesis before sun appeard that means Bible is wrong. To my surprise no christian give accurate answer because we're still looking at the works of God through evolutionary perspective.

Photosynthesis is just a method by which plants make their food to enable them to grow and produce seed. Which is a process that God has placed upon all plants to survive.

If Jesus can command a fig tree to dry up instantly, can God also not command a mature trees to come out instantly?

Remember the first statement in creations account is 'Let there be........ Not let the light begins to appear, let plants begin to grow......but Let there be' which is a command statement from omnipotent God and any statement that follow must obey the command.

Thanks.

ayenny02: The Bible says that Jesus addressed his mother from the cross as “ Woman! ” (John 19:26). No mean person will address his mother as “Woman! ”. It is only because the person on the cross was Judas and not Jesus (pbuh) that he addresses Mary as “ Women! ” If you believe that Jesus was crucified, can you please explain this verse to me Matthew 12:40

See how you keep exposing your ignorance, Nobody will address his Mother 'woman'! Did Jesus later call her Mother or not?

Matt 12:40 Jesus was talking about His dead and the days He will spend in the position of death.

Why can't you disprove my statement above? It's better you accept the true way (Jesus) so that you can reign with Him.

There're over 5 prominent ancient people that write about Jesus crucifixion i.e Flavius Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny The Young, Tallus e.t.c so claiming Jesus wasn't crucified according to Quran means your Quran is an imaginary work of ordinary man.

You can browse about those names or check this link if your BP will not rise above normal.

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-historical-evidence-jesus-christ/

plaetton: Just to educate you, the terms BC and AD are no longer used for the very same reasons I have mentioned here: There is no historical validity to the existence of Jesus.
For several decades now, these terms have been discarded from historical and academic literature .
They have been replaced by BCE( Before The Common Era) and CE(Common Era).

Era of what oooo plaetton?

Era-"A system of chronology dating from a particular noteworthy event" please which event is noteworthy in 2000years ago?

If the BC and AD is being discarded, can they discard the year derived in it. Remember 2013AD is at the middle very soon 2014AD will come.

Plato, Julius Ceaser, Homer are prominent people that did great thing and they live before Christ yet their event or time was not taken, why Jesus?

Is like you're dudging this post let me repost it again.

If I charge to court of committen an offence:

*If I said I'm not guity! It doesn't hold any truth because I won't like see myself in jail.

*If any of my family says I'm not guity, perhaps he/she loves me and try to prevent me of going to jail.

*If my best friend says I'm not guity, well maybe is because he's my best friend and never want me to rot in jail.

*But what if my worst enemy now says I'm not guity (probably he/she will want me to rot in jail). Then I'm not guity.

What does the above mean?

One of the greatest enemy of early christians is Lucian of Samosata : THE PASSING OF PEREGRINUS. If Samosata could clearly state in his book that Jesus was crucified I think no arguement should go beyond that.
Samosata 11. “It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians, by associating with their priests and scribes in Palestine. And—how else could it be?—in a trice he made them all look like children, for he was prophet, cult-leader, head of the synagogue, and everything, all by himself. He interpreted and explained some of their books and even composed many, and they revered him as a god, made use of him as a lawgiver, and set him down as a protector, next after that other, to be sure, whom 11 they still worship, the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world.

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/lucian /peregrinus.htm

He even recognises the remaining 11 desciples of Jesus Christ. Then shall we say Jesus didn't exist?

In his book he mocked Christianity but it's a great evidence to prove that Jesus actually exist.

I will like you to disprove this, the website is there too.

truthman2012: there is nothing they will not call their muhammad self. any prophet mentioned in the bible, they say is he, they say he is the holy ghost, now ayenny says he is an angel. angel ko angeli ni. confused folk.

The guy is a liar.

@Ayenny
Please why are you lying?

You created all these threads:

What Happened In Between:jesus's Crucifixion, Death & Resurrection

On this thread you try to claim that Jesus was not crucified and Jesus didn't talk about His crucifixion. Later you've quote from Bible that Jesus cry on the cross

Ayenny02: Why Jesus cry on the cross when he was already known that the purpose of coming to this world was to die?

On this thread also:
Who Is an Anti-christ Btw Islam & Christianity

You make it clear that Christianity is an anti-christ and anyone that denied the teaching of Jesus is an anti-christ.

You state this statement too:

Ayenny02: However, if u examine the bible carefully, u would observe that Paul and the disciples were not preaching the same doctrine and did not believe in the same Jesus.

You created this thread also:
Jesus Will Follow Which Religion When Comes Back?

Here you believe that If Jesus comes He will join Islam.
You claim Jesus is the 'Messiah'

Ayenny02: Now Jesus is indeed the Messiah, but that doesn't make him God, not at all, it is a title of honor given to Jesus.

If I may ask; What is the meaning of Messiah?

In another thread you claimed that what Jesus said in John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions:........" means Jesus will only come and take His own people to His own mansion why Quran make it clear that Allah send many prophet to this world so they have thier own mansion too.

And the purpose of creating this thread before the topic shifted or rest on Holyspirit is that you make it clear that BIBLE 'contradict Itself' now the same Bible that contradict itself -by Ayenny is the same Bible that strongly support the prophesy of your prophet.

After gone through your threads and posts I decided to end any discusion with you because you contradict yourself and interpret the Bible to support your lies.

You claim you believe in Jesus teaching and that Jesus is the Messiah yet you have proved that Jesus is not the Son of God.

You claim Jesus was not crucified but later believe He is a Messiah, then what make Him a Messiah?

You calim that Paul and Jesus' desciples didn't witness and follow the teaching of Jesus but most Bible quote you've ever quoted are from desciples books because none of those books were written by Jesus.

Just go through your own thread you've ever created and begin to compare and contrast I believe you will ashame of yourself contradtion.

plaetton: So, the idea of AD and BC came from the calendars of christian European emperors, therefore the the story of jesus must be true? That is the best you can come up with?

Honestly, I shake my head in sadness and shame when I read some of your posts.
The shame of trying to debate with a retard is what really gets to me.

@bold- I can see there's tiny membrane that covered your eyes which couldn't allow you to see my quote with Rossik. What can you say about that?

You call it Christian European Calendar but remember is universal.

Why Pleatton choose to allow his date of birth to come from Christian calendar?
Why Dawnians didn't create his own calendar despite that he believed human has been in existence over hundred thousand years ago?
Why Jesus date was taken and universal despite there're many prominent people and religion before His birth? There are many chances for the birth of Christ to be cancelled as a reference to another people or event but isn't possible because His prophesy must be fulfilled.
It was after the Birth and Death of Jesus that wisdom and knowledge begin to increased.
Isaiah 33:6 "And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times,......."

I know you can't see these as a prove because the truth is far away fron you.

ayenny02: Mr ENGLISH, you have problem Jesus said ANOTHER COMFORTER"
So you want to tell me that there is another GOD somewhere or another another Holy spirit Somewhere, get problem for your head.

Not about another comforter I'm telling you a complete statement you misinterpreted. Huhh! Get life.

So Jesus was talking about ANOTHER Holyspirit pls tell me how many Holy spirit do we have in BIBLE

One Holyspirit!

I believe in Jesus (as) teaching but we don't believe that Jesus is a son of God, or God or Holyspirit but we believe him as a Prophet of God and bible confirmed it also

I will repeat it again you believe Jesus when He said He will send your prophet but you don't believe Him when He Himself says He the son of God.

Though you give a blunt answer when I ask the first time.

Jesus Himself declared He is a son of God.

Can you see you're just deceiving yourself.

By the way if you believe in Jesus teaching have you received the baptism of the Holyspirit? because that's what make you a true believer of His word.

plaetton: So Jesus Jesus exists because the calendar says?
Don't even insult kindergarten children with that silly logic

Not only because calendar says so, but where the idea of everything dated on earth is either BC or AD came from?

That's the question you should ask yourself.

Rossikk: You expect me to prove a negative? That would be quite a task. I'm sorry but the onus is on you to prove that Jesus existed.

And no... ''the bible says so'' is not proof.

Do you know there was no writer contemporaneous to the Jesus era who wrote a single word about Jesus? The Jewish/Greek hellenistic period was an era in which there were hundreds of writers who wrote even the most mundane records... yet, not one word about a 'Jesus'. All accounts of a 'Jesus' were written several decades after his 'ascension', and were based on HEARSAY, not eyewitness evidence.

Secondly, the Gospels are written by anonymous persons, at least 100 years AFTER the alleged events occurred. The scrolls were 'found' somewhere, and names like 'Matthew', 'Mark', 'Luke' etc attached to them, to give the impression, still held by most christians, that those characters actually wrote the respective volumes attributed to them.

But there's no evidence for the existence of a 'Luke', or a 'Mark', or 'John' who wrote any gospels. They are fictional characters. MIND YOU THESE THINGS I'M STATING ARE NOT CONTESTED BY THE CHURCH OR BY THEOLOGIANS OR RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS. They just don't go about publicizing these facts to the faithful.

Please where the idea of our calender came from if Jesus didn't exist?

Again you said no record of Jesus Christ was kept.

If I'm charge to court of committen an offence:
*If I said I'm not guity! It doesn't hold any truth because I won't like see myself in jail.
*If any of my family says I'm not guity, perhaps he/she loves me and try to prevent me of going to jail.
*If my best friend says I'm not guity, well maybe is because he's my best friend and never want me to rot in jail.
*But what if my worst enemy now says I'm not guity (probably he/she will want me to rot in jail). Then I'm not guity.

What does the above mean?
One of the greatest enemy of early christians is Lucian of Samosata : THE PASSING OF PEREGRINUS. If Samosata could clearly state in his book that Jesus was crucified I think no arguement should go beyond that.

Samosata 11. “It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians, by associating with their priests and scribes in Palestine. And—how else could it be?—in a trice he made them all look like children, for he was prophet, cult-leader, head of the synagogue, and everything, all by himself. He interpreted and explained some of their books and even composed many, and they revered him as a god, made use of him as a lawgiver, and set him down as a protector, next after that other, to be sure, whom 11 they still worship, the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world.

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/lucian/peregrinus.htm

He even recognises the remaining 11 desciples of Jesus Christ. Then shall we say Jesus didn't exist?

It's up to you to judge!

plaetton: Hagins or not, the fact remains that there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of Jesus.
The gospels , written by unknowns, do not meet the minimum criteria to be taken seriously as historical facts.

It is actually quite suspicious that Jesus, son of the creator of the universe, somehow forgot yo put his teachings in writing for posterity.

If there is no evidence for Jesus existence kindly change your date of Birth to **/**/100,198*.

The funny part of it even Dawnians date of Birth was taken after the Death of Christ (AD) even though he believe man has been in existence about thousands of years, have you asked youself why everything is taken from Christ date? i.e BC or AD!

Keep deluding yourself!

I will like unbelievers to change their date of Birth/calender to over hundred thousand years before I will join you people.

Don't forget this year you are in is 2013AD.

ayenny02: DESIKA, am disappointed in you to still come out and says Holy spirit is God from your mouth, after I have lecture you on Holy spirit, spirit of God and angel and you still come out and say this.

Holyspirit is God!

Jesus said: "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another advocate(parakletos)."

The comforter/advocate is still they same as Holyspirit don't seperate them.

So from DESIKA definition of Holy spirit as God:
1. DESIKA is now saying that Jesus will pray to father to send "ANOTHER God"

He will send His own spirit to abide with people for ever which only come to perform work in time past but not stay this time around He will stay.

2.DESIKA is now saying that God was not abide with them before,That ANOTHER GOD will come and abide with them for ever:[quote]Not another God still they same God who can transform Himself in many ways.


[quote]3. DESIKA is now saying that ANOTHER GOD will come that He shall not speak of himself:

Yes! He will only speak what the God of the father will tell Him

4. DESIKA is now saying that ANOTHER GOD shall bring all things into their remembrance:

Same God!

DESIKA ARE U STILL WITH YOUR MIND OR YOU MADE A MISTAKE TO TELL ME THAT HOLY SPIRIT AND PARACLETE IS GOD. NO! NO!! NO!!! IT WAS A MISTAKE FROM YOU, YOU NEED A DOCTOR TO ATTEND TO YOU AND RE-THINK AGAIN

Try to check yours first.

Can't you see yourself, you are saying RUBBISH!. You better give me time to come and lecture you more on HOLY SPIRIT and God. OLODO

Do you have Holyspirit on you for you to lecture him? Because I'm very sure if you have Holyspirit on you, you won't interpret Bible this way.

Beside check the down of page 2 for my reply I know you will boycott it.

ayenny02: How did crucifixion and ressurrection occur?
Who were those who witnessed the whole account of crucifixion and resurrection

Anytime I see your thread about Christian it always gives me power to read Bible more and it so painful that I can't reply most of your post both here or another thread.

But let me just erase your mind from this thread so that it can increase your BP because I know you, studing Bible isn't to know the truth in it but to use it against Christian.

If they charge me to court for committen an offence;
*then if I said I didn't do it it doesn't hold any truth.
*If my relatives said I didn't do it, it might be because he/she loves me.
*If my best friend said I didn't do it, maybe he/she doesn't want me to go to jail because is my best friend.
*but if my worst enemy said I didn't do it, (probably he/she will like to see me rotten in jail). Then I'm not guity of it!

what does the above mean?
The best enemy of early Christians is Lucian of Samosata : THE PASSING OF PEREGRINUS but if Samosata could state it clearly in his book that Jesus was crucified then we don't need any prove than that.

Samosata 11. “It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians, by associating with their priests and scribes in Palestine. And—how else could it be?—in a trice he made them all look like children, for he was prophet, cult-leader, head of the synagogue, and everything, all by himself. He inter preted and explained some of their books and even composed many, and they revered him as a god, made use of him as a lawgiver, and set him down as a protector, next after that other, to be sure, whom 11 they still worship, the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world.

As you can see in his statement, he even recognized the remaining 11 desciples and Jesus crucifixion.

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/lucian/peregrinus.htm

I just believe God will have mercy on you the way you interpret the Bible.

[quote author=From_Guiriga]Bredren, you summed up my argument. It looks silly to say the word of God is contained in 66 books. I agree.[/quote]You get it wrong your initial argument was that Bible is not the word of God.

Anyhow you put it "Bible is the Word of God".

okeyxyz: Mehn!!! Dis Jesus don suffer oo. With the kain effort wey everybody dey put for work to prove say im no exist at all.. chaii!!!

I'm telling you.

@ayenny

It's like you lack some basic knowledge in English puntuations mark in your primary school. Please try to do much research on that. With this most people read Bible and neglecting the English rules wheras Bible was written with best English stardand protocols "obeyed both puntuations, grammatical expresion, and Idiomatic rules".

Let's look at John 14:16-17 "and I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever ; 17 Even the spirit of truth; whom the world cannot recieve, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you"

Looking at the end of verse 16 you will see a semicolon mark there.

Now what is a semicolon? "Semicolons help you connect closely related ideas when a style mark stronger than a comma is needed.

With this definition you can see a close related ideas of verse 16 & 17 which simply means Jesus Christ was talking about Holyspirit not a prophet.
Anyway maybe you can disprove the semicolon in between the two verse sha!

You don't believe in Jesus Christ teaching yet you believe His prophesy, how dumb are you to believe one statement out of hundred statements?

If you need interpretation of verses you've quoted that seems confused about Jesus Christ and Holyspirit let's discuss that in another thread. Forget about about Christ breeds Muslim issue it's a pure fraud.

deSika: my brother, the thing baffles me too. it seems one of the fruits of been a muslim is low reasoning, self delusion etc.

I'm tied for the guy.

I asked him did he believe in Jesus teaching he couldn't answer the question correctly.

He didn't believe in Jesus' teaching but believe His prophesy, what kind dumb logic is that one?

ayenny02: Can you tell the teaching of jesus that the prophet (saw) did not teachHe shall bring all things into your remembrance:

The prophesy of this coming Paraclete requires that he shall remind mankind of the words of Jesus. Jesus is speaking here not to those who disbelieved, but to his own followers. He is telling his followers that the Paraclete shall "remind" them of the message of Jesus. However, if the followers of Jesus already know and remember all that Jesus taught then how shall the Paraclete "remind" them of something which they already remember?

Obviously, the coming Paraclete shall come in a time when the teachings of Jesus have been forgotten and require one to "remind" Jesus' followers of them. Indeed, the Qur'an does in fact confirm this same situation.
If you want answer for this, pls open your thread and call me OLODO

Pls compare these two color statement above with all your arguement. Infact arguing with you is a waste of time.

deSika: my brother, the thing baffles me too. it seems one of the fruits of been a muslim is low reasoning, self delusion etc.

I'm tied for the guy.

I asked him did he believe in Jesus teaching he couldn't answer the question correctly.

He didn't believe in Jesus' teaching but believe His prophesy, what kind dumb logic is that one?

truthman2012: Thirdly, the promise of Holy Spirit had been fulfilled when He (Holy Spirit) came upon the disciples and they started speaking in new tongues (Acts 2:1-7). Muslims usual excuse here is that the Holy Spirit had been in existence before that time. Yes. He used to come and go, He was not residing permanently in man. Nobody before then spoke in a new tongue. The world was not expecting Muhammad.

I think the major point Ayenny miss out is that bolded.

I keep wondering somebody you don't believe in His teaching suddenly become a person you solely embraced His prophecy.

@Ayin

Answer the question that 'Mintayo' asked.

See some attributes of the Holyspirit.

*Because the Bible ALSO says the Holy Spirit can be “quenched” (1 Thessalonians 5:19).

*The Holy Spirit is given in measured amounts (John 3:34, 2 Corinthians 1:22)

*The Holy Spirit can be “poured out” (Acts 2:17, 33),

*people can be baptized (immersed) in it (Matthew 3:11) , drink it (John 7:37-39) , and be filled with it (Acts 2:4;Ephesians 5:18)

Does your Muhammad possess all these attributes?

If you want to claim Islam claim it fully nobody will beat you for that stop hidding under Christian/Bible to claim Islam breeds out from someone you don't believe in His words but believe His prophesy.

ayenny02: We, Muslims believe that Jesus was servant and Messenger of God,

With this your reply it means you just quote Bible to support your fallacious statement because Jesus Himself clearly declare he's a Son of God.

Jesus said He's a Son of God you don't believe Him (you just conclude with yourself He's a servant of God) but you believe when He said He will send your prophet come! How does it make sense to you?

Bible also testify to it.
All of mankind are the servants of God. If a man were to own another man then that man would be his servant. Obviously this servant would be held in a lower regard than this man's own children (or himself). We do not usually find people telling their sons (or themselves): "come here my servant," or "Go over there my servant." Let us compare this with what God has to say about Jesus (as):

Matthew 12:18: "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen."

Acts 3:13(RSV): "The God of Abraham, and of Isaac,.... hath glorified his servant Jesus."

John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, Verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am"

John 17:1-"These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that also may glorify thee:"

Matt 16:16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God"

Why can't you quote these verses also?

A "Spirit" in the New Testament is a human Prophet.   Therefore, Jesus had predicted the comming of a human Prophet (spirit) after him and not the Holy Spirit.  Jesus would not have used the word "he" for the Holy Spirit.  He would have used "it" instead in John 14:26.   Read 1 John 4:1-3 below:

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world,"

Since you fail to acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God your arguemnet is baseless. If you need real Bible study and understanding of it I will do that not here open a thread and invit me.

The Holy Ghost according to the Bible was "with" them already (and even quite active) long before the coming of Jesus (as) himself and then throughout his ministry. Read for example.

"For he (John the Baptist) shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." (Luke 1:15)

"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him (Jesus), and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." (Luke 3:22)

"Then said Jesus to them again, as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." (John 20:21-22)

Did they or did they not already receive the Holy Ghost? Was Jesus (as) not still with them when they received the Holy Ghost? Was the Holy Ghost not with John before the birth of Jesus (as)?
if Jesus (as) does not depart then the "parakletos" will not come. Thus, the "Holy Ghost" cannot be the one originally intended since it was already with them. The contradiction is quite obvious.

You keep repeating this lies, like I said above let's have an insight and clear knowledge on Bible together.

[quote author=big-t]Petty inventions built on men's inventions! [/quote]Why can't you appreciate the little one they did? Remember millions of women are outside.

You call it petty but I believe your first/next car will be a bullet-proof one.

musKeeto: Yes. I did. I once believed some one was up there answering prayers. I once believed that the Bible was his word. Then I had a few experiences and had to do some research. And I found out the Bible GOD is real like ideas are. Ideas are powerful. You realize that your God's as real as the next man's.

All I had to do was turn off the faith switch...

@bold-See yourself after you have had some expirenced you still went ahead and conclude the Biblical God is real like ideas are.
What kind of expirence do you have then?

Have you ever been baptized with Holyspirit in the time you're a christian?

1. Cookies and milk a tradition made possible by Ruth Wakefield

Ruth Wakefield had worked as a dietitian and food lecturer before buying an old toll house outside of Boston with her husband. Traditionally, toll houses were places weary travelers paid their road tolls, grabbed a quick bite and fed their horses. Wakefield and her husband converted the toll house into an inn with a restaurant. One day in 1930, Wakefield was baking up a batch of Butter Drop Do cookies for her guests. The recipe called for melted chocolate, but Wakefield had run out of baker's chocolate. She took a Nestle chocolate bar, crumbled it into pieces and threw it into her batter, expecting the chocolate pieces to melt during baking. Instead, the chocolate held its shape, and the chocolate chip cookie was born.

2. Admiral Hopper at her retirement ceremony in 1986

When we think about advancements in computers, we tend to think about men like Charles Babbage, Alan Turing and Bill Gates. But Admiral Grace Murray Hopper deserves credit for her role in the computer industry. Admiral Hopper joined the military in 1943 and was stationed at Harvard University, where she worked on IBM's Harvard Mark I computer, the first large-scale computer in the United States. She was the third person to program this computer, and she wrote a manual of operations that lit the path for those that followed her. In the 1950s, Admiral Hopper invented the compiler, which translates English commands into computer code. This device meant that programmers could create code more easily and with fewer errors. Hopper's second compiler, the Flow-Matic, was used to program UNIVAC I and II, which were the first computers available commercially.

3. Sarah Mather patented the submarine telescope and lamp.

When Martha Coston was widowed in 1847, she was only 21 years old. She had four children to support, but she hadn't a clue about how to do so. She was flipping through her dead husband's notebooks when she found plans for a flare system that ships could use to communicate at night. Coston requested the system be tested, but it failed.
Coston was undeterred. She spent the next 10 years revising and perfecting her husband's design for a colored flare system. She consulted with scientists and military officers, but she couldn't figure out how to produce flares that were bright and long-lasting while remaining easy to use at the spur of the moment. One night she took her children to see a fireworks display, and that's when she hit upon the idea of applying some pyrotechnic technology to her flare system. The flare system finally worked, and the U.S. Navy bought it.

4. Margaret Knight's invention led to the ubiquitous question, "Paper or plastic?"

Margaret Knight didn't invent the paper bag, but those first paper bags weren't all that useful for carrying things. Knight realized that paper bags should have a square bottom; when weight was distributed across the base in this way, the bags could carry more things.
In 1870, she created a wooden machine that would cut, fold and glue the square bottoms to paper bags. While she was working on an iron prototype of the machine to use for her patent application, she discovered that her design had been stolen by a man named Charles Annan, who had seen her wooden machine a few months earlier. She filed a patent interference suit against Annan, who claimed that there was no way that a woman could have developed such a complex machine. Knight used her notes and sketches to prove otherwise, and she was granted the patent for the device in 1871.

5. When Anderson first proposed the windshield wipers, some people thought it would be too distracting to drivers.

Anderson received the patent for her device in 1903; just 10 years later, thousands of Americans owned a car with her invention.

6. Bulletproof vests are now standard equipment for police officers by Kwolek

Stephanie Kwolek took a position at DuPont in 1946 so she could save enough moneyto go to medical school. In 1964, she was still there, researching how to turn polymers into extra strong synthetic fibers. Kwolek was working with polymers that had rod-like molecules that all lined up in one direction.

7. Mary Kies was the first American woman to earn a patent in her own name. In 1809, she developed a way of weaving straw into hats that was an economic boon for New England.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/inventions/10-things-that-women-invented.htm

kambo: thats d beauty of christianity. U can dropout and jettison God anytime and He wont threaten u ar com 4 ur life.

u probably were never saved , just followg blind procedures.
Then it occured to u,u were just jumping thru hoops in d name of religion. Anyway, u were honest and bold enuff 2 quit, others like u no mor believ but 4 fear of censure stay with it.

Theyre others who'v experienced God in d tangible way u and fellow atheists seek. Whch makes ur case against is exstence weak.
It cuts both ways broda. Run bck to ur father while u can.

@color- You made a great point!
No wonder inside church to day you will still find an armed robbers, prostitute, 419 e.t.c

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed(Holyspirit) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,....." [6]"......Whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.

One glass that atheist will fail to put on in life is SPIRITUALITY, no matter how you explain it to them because they derived their belief in materialism i.e nature consists only matters.

@op I quite understand your point. Stop keep wondering when someone who claims to be a christian later said there's no God it happens all the time because a christian who claims he/she has accepted Christ but not yet BAPTIZED with Holyspirit will surely fall a victim of that.

It may sound funny to them because it beyonds their physical knowledge. Some of them will say I've read Bible from Genesis to Revelation yet I couldn't find the existence of God but if you ask them do they expirence the baptism of the Holyspirit during their christian's life the respond will be No! because baptism of the Holyspirit is just a pure lie and deceive.

Then you will know that atheism is a faith for those who fails to find the truth.

ayenny02: YES, Holy spirit is not God and Holyspirit is not JesusI will wait to give me more detail about Holyspirit
That he may abide with you for ever:

In these verses, Jesus (as) is quoted as saying that the coming Paraclete will "abide with you forever." What does he mean by this? In order to understand this statement, let us read

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying." John 8:51-55

and also

"And I (Jesus) give unto them (the believers) eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:28

and "and my servant David [shall be] their prince forever." Ezekiel 37:25.

and "The king shall joy in thy strength, O LORD ... He asked life of thee, [and] thou gavest [it] him, [even] length of days for ever and ever." Psalm 21:1-4

... etc.

Jesus (as) is quoted many times in the Bible as telling his followers that they will never taste death. However, there is not a single one of them alive to this day. Was he lying? Of course not!

In a similar manner, when king David is described as being a prince forever, this did not mean that he would never die but remain immortal for ever and ever as a prince to Israel. Rather, his teachings, name, and guidance shall remain as a shining beacon to mankind even after his death.

In this manner, Jesus (as) lives among us through his faith and teachings, prophet Abraham (pbuh) lives on among them and us through his faith and teachings, and so too, the coming Paraclete will live eternally with us through his faith and teachings.

The Paracletos will be the last prophet, because he will "abide with you forever" and "he will guide you into all truth" and "he shall teach you all things," so there will be no need for any further prophets. In the Qur'an we read:

"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is Aware of all things." al-Ahzab(33):40

And "This day have I (God) perfected your religion for you (mankind) and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you as religion Islam(the submission)." al-Maidah(5):3

So the religion of Islam is the last message to mankind and it, as well as the Qur'an, will abide with them forever. To this day, Muhammad (pbuh) abides with us through his teachings. Muhammad (pbuh) indeed remains alive and well among us in the vast collection of over 9,500 quotations recorded from him during his lifetime in a broad range of topics. This collection of quotations is named the "Hadeeth." To this day, whenever a Muslims wishes to perform any action no matter how trivial, he does not advance a single step before first consulting Allah/God (in the Qur'an), and then prophet Muhammad (pbuh) (in the Hadeeth). Be it a question on how and what to eat or drink, how to perform marriages, how to pray, what sort of trade or commerce is permissible or prohibited, or what sort of clothes to wear, no Muslim presumes to undertake any action before first obtaining the approval of God then His prophet. Muhammad (pbuh) truly is alive and well among us.

Jesus (as) had "the whole truth" and had many things he longed to teach his disciples but he could not give it to them because they "cannot bear them now." These matters would only be revealed six centuries later by God through the agency of Muhammad (pbuh). What new truths has the Holy Spirit guided us into after the departure of Jesus (pbuh) which Jesus (pbuh) had no say in?

Just one question for you, did Muslim believe Jesus is the son of GOD? If you can answer it with sincerity I will further my discusion with you. Becaus your reply clearly stated that Jesus was talking about your prophet.

But you read it in the Bible that is after they (desciples) received the Holyspirit the ministry of the gosple increases greatly and Jesus told them they should wait in Jerusalem until they receive the Holyspirit, why is it that after the desciples have died about 400 years later your prophet now came and did muhammad follow the teaching of JESUS Christ? Keep deluding yourself. Because Jesus said the comforter will follow His steps.

Another fact about what only God could've known!

Let's see these Bible verses
Isaiah 43:16-17 "16Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters; 17 Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow.

Verse 17 clearly stated how fossil had formed and how lives had gone into extinction.

Scientist has recorded that 98% of lives had gone into extinction which it can be traced back to Genesis global flood (for a creationist).

And generally speaking, a fossil is any evidence of past plant or animal life that is preserved in the material of the Earth's crust. But when most people talk about fossils, they mean a specific subsection of this group -- fossils in which the shape of the animal or plant has been preserved, while the actual organic matter of its body is gone.

With such certainty only God could vividly know that some lives has gone extinct and formed fossilize materials about 3000 years ago because He made them happened the way they were today.

mcfynest: if u noticed, it was a question which i would love science adherents to prove.

Now I understand. I don't know you mean 'Has'.

I will reply once I'm true.

mollie12: What message are you trying to pass across exactly?

This opening remark of yours was confusing, and the topic you chose is also not helping matters. If you cite a quotation from someone you don't agree with you should try to highlight the quote with a different color or font and immediately write after the quote your own point of view.

I believe there is enough confusion on this NL Religion section - please everyone should clearly identify which point of view they belong to as they post. Thanks.

No! The thread isn't confuse at all simply because some people do believe that the life they live have nothing to do with the existence of God. They are capable of guiding their life rightly without Holyspirit.