₦airaland Forum

I think the Lagos state government would gladly settle for a more fair distribution of the VAT collected. Giving one state special status would only create more problems down the road as other states start making similar demands.

ogajim:
People exist in this forum who would argue that Eddie Long is innocent because no Court found him guilty, we'll see what they have to say now that Mrs. Long has moved out and filed for divorce.

Abeg please! The guy wanna guilty die? Gaddem child molester. They should hang him by his balls.

muyoto:
why is the author's name not included sef?

The economist doesn't publish the names of its authors.

I've never really gotten why igbo people are so find of Ojukwu. The guy lead them into a disastrous war that wiped out more than 1million of his people. I'm not saying there were no reason for the war but he could have achieved all he did and more with much less bloodshed had he been less proud and more concious of the value of his people's lives. And what's worse was the way he ran off to Cote d'ivoire as soon as his own life was in danger.

A general who willingly sends so many young men to their deaths should not be so careful with his own life.

Uyi Iredia:
Yes. I agree to that wholeheartedly. Just be careful to note that natural selection is a conservative force (it works on preexisting genetic information) not a creative force.

If you believe in natural selection, then you believe in evolution. Evolution is merely natural selection happening over a very long period. The problem you seem to be having having is that you can't wrap your head around the timescales involved.

You say that you haven't seen enough evidence to accept the theory of evolution and that's fine by me. In fact, your position would have been perfectly valid had you been willing to apply the same degree of scepticism to the bible myths that you've been touting since you joined this thread. You dismiss the theory of evolution which is backed by phylogenetic, fossil, geologic, genetic and experimental evidence, yet you are willing to accept the totally unsupported idea that humans were created by an invisible, undetectable creature using dirt and magic as ingredients!

The evidence before me suggests that you are not thinking logically.

dekung:
Evil brain, I love reading your contributions on this forum cos they are simple, logical and devoid of personal beef for anyone. I was a christian for many years and have asked questions about God since i was a child and the answers i have been, to say the least, unsatisfying. I am presently on the path to becoming an atheist and I must tell you its not so easy. This is because i have to unlearn all the crap and lies i have been taught from childhood, have to deal with friends and family who are deeply religious and to cap it up my house is a freaking house fellowship centre. I told my wife who is a very good christian about my decision, initialy she was bothered but when I explained my thoughts and findings to her, she agreeably left me to my convictions.

Glad I could be of help. I always recommend that new athiests read Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion. You may not agree with everything written there but the book really helps to solidify and fully express those questions and doubts you've been having. You should buy a copy if you can but if not, you can pirate it from here:
isohunt.com/torrent_details/49704568/richard+dawkins+the+god+delusion?tab=summary
P.S. That you wife sounds like a lovely person. Would she happen to have a fine younger sister? Women that understanding are really hard to find.

OP is absolutely right. Moreover, further investigation by me has revealed that there are no cars, computers or internet forums in the bible either. These things must be demonic creations by western mystic devil worshippers allied to the illuminati.

We must all abandon these devilish instruments and return to our previous righteous stone-age way of life.

This debate has gotten way past tedious.

@Uyi Iredia
Do you agree that genetic traits which confer a survival advantage tend to become more prevalent in subsequent generations through the process of natural selection?

A simple yes or no will suffice if you don't mind.

OP is clearly confused. FYI, athiests are people who don't believe in god(s). The term does not include scientologists or satanists (except perhaps LaVey satanists who don't really believe in satan but are just trolling and catching their trips). Athiests don't have rituals because they realize that such things are pointless and stûpid.

On the other hand christians, muslims, scientologists and devil worshippers are all doing essentially the same thing. The only difference being that they use different proper nouns (Jehovah/Allah/Baelzebub), wear slightly different clothes and (selectively) follow different "holy" books.

Also, don't link to the Daily Mail if you want sensible people to take you seriously. Even National Encomium has more credibility than that useless rag.

Will someone please explain to me wtf Abuja needs a light rail system for? It already has by far the best roads and intrastructure in the country. And this is despite the fact that it is nothing more than an artificial government town that adds zero value to the nation's economy.

Why can't they spend that money on something useful like standard guage railways connecting Lagos to the north and south east. Why do we have to spend so much money helping redundant, parasitic federal civil servants commute to their 10am to 2pm jobs?

These people clearly have no clue what they are doing.

frosbel:
You should also jail adulterers , fornicators , p.ornographists and , s.exual perverts in general.

Why stop at that? We should have nothing less than the full implementation of Sharia law all over Nigeria as well as the inclusion of all the old-testament laws in our criminal/penal code. Now that Nigeria is no longer a secular country, let us all live our lives by the laws of stone age, preindustrial societies because things were much better then.

We should start stoning unwed mothers and disobedient children to death. We should jail people who wear cotton/polyester shirts and women who dare open their mouths in church. Any girl who doesn't bleed on her wedding night, regardless of whether she is a virgin or not, should be killed in front of her father's house. All räpe victims in urban areas should be killed. Senator Sani Yerima should be appointed as president, commander-in-chief, high priest/general overseer, and caliph.

If we do all these, then god will bless us and Nigeria will finally become a wealthy, first world, industrialized nation just like Finland, Germany and the US.

tpia@:
@ evil brain

the song of solomon discusses love, not so?

Since you dont accept the reality of the spiritual love Christ has for his church, then why do you think you'd understand the love described in SOS?

Obviously you dont recognize anything beyond the physical. But sometimes that's only half the story.

Lets not derail the thread plz.

Oh so you're now resorting to that stûpid "hidden knowledge" argument? The one so much loved by freemasons and wahabi scholars? Abeg please!

The bible doesn't require any special revalation to understand. And even if it did, I was a full blown, bible believing, "spirit filled", tongue speaking, head shaking christian for half my life. And during that time I read SOS at least 4 times (it might have been more, I don't really remember) and I didn't see anything relating to Jesus in it. It's about love and sèx. It was probably used during marriage ceremonies.

It's prudes like you who think anything to do with sèx is "gutter thinking" that are trying to censor it by changing the meaning. You better stop decieving yourselves, and learn how to read.

tpia@:
^^you're anti-religion yet always in religion section.

@ topic

songs of solomon applies to both Christ and the church, and on a more physical level between couples.

I'm not anti-religion, I'm anti-ignorance, anti-misrepresentation of facts and anti-religious-intolerance. Look at my posting history if you don't believe me.

I find it strange that a born-again like you is not bothered to see someone clearly twisting the scriptures. It's very annoying that so many religious people are unable to think objectively or read anything without projecting their preconcieved beliefs on it. That's why they magically start seeing Jesus in Song of Songs, a book whose meaning is as clear and unambiguous as it's possible to be. Its also why the more christians read the bible, the more ignorant they seem to become about what it actually says.

I'll say it again, you born-agains need to learn how to read.

OP should stop talking rubbish abeg. Song of Songs is all about love and sèx. It doesn't have jackshît to do with "a christian's spiritual fellowship with the Lord Jebus Christ".

You born-agains need to learn how to read.

Uyi Iredia:
Of course discrediting evidence that contradicts your beliefs is okay if you have solid refutations for such 'evidence'. This is what creationists and ID theorists have done.

You haven't made any solid refutations. All your linked articles rely on strawmen and porous logic like "irreducible complexity". That's hardly solid.

Of course all fossils are real, but artistic rendering of the fossilized organisms are clearly imaginary since the artists responsible weren't present when such organisms existed.

I'll admit that many artists have taken liberties when depicting dinosaurs especially their colour and behavior (e.g. Jurassic Park) but it's not difficult to find peer reviewed renditions that are based only on scientific evidence.
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/01/100127-dinosaur-feathers-colors-nature/

I have no explanation to give, however I have this to say: It is not enough to imply that commonality of features between the Archeopteryx and theropods means that it (Archeopteryx)is a transitional species. You have demonstrate how similarities between the Archeopteryx and theropods shows it is a transitional species. Besides the article presented forwarded reasons why it was a true bird.

You have no explanation to give. You're refering me to your linked articles which have no explanation either, just strawmen and porous logic. Why is it so hard to admit that you're wrong? I promise not to make fun of you.

Of course, using this reasoning the fossil of a platypus would probably have been forwarded as proof of the existence of transitional species. I hope you know they share features with 3 classes of organisms (Aves, Mammalia and Reptilia)

The platypus is an egg-laying mammal, of course it's transitional. But really all living things are transitional because evolution is a continuous process. Given enough time, your descendants will eventually evolve into something barely recognizable to you (assuming they don't go extinct first, which is far more likely).

Simple doesn't mean correct. You simply surmise that based on similarities the Archeopteryx is 'somehow' a transitional species.

All things being equal, the simplest explanation is almost always the correct one. Any decent scientist knows that you never include unknown variables (like god or "the gods" when you can explain things without them.

By 'consider' you most likely mean 'accept without question'.

Don't put words in my mouth, I said "consider". There's no blind acceptance in science, you consider everything and you question everything. Then you back the theory that is best supported by the best available evidence. It's only religions that ask you to accept without question. Science is not a religion.

Thanks for your 'compliment'.

You're welcome. Remember what I said, turn it on.

Uyi Iredia:
These following links should counter the presumptions underlying the images you just posted as follows:





Image containing Tiktaalik: Tiktaalik roseae—a fishy ‘missing link’



Image on whale evolution: Whale evolution?



Image with Archeopteryx: Archaeopteryx (unlike Archaeoraptor) is NOT a hoax—it is a true bird, not a “missing link”



Read them !

Followed your links, read the articles. They are basically claiming that all the transitonal fossils are hoaxes with the exception of archeopteryx. This is the typical creationist MO of trying to discredit any evidence that contradicts their beliefs. I don't have time to be debating which fossils are legit or not with you, so I'll just focus on the one you admit is real.

Both you and your linked article make the claim that Archeopteryx is just a regular bird and not a transitional species. If so, kindly explain to me why it has so many features in common with the theropod dinosaurs. I'm specifically referring to the bony jaws, rows of sharp teeth, clawed wings, hyperextensible middle toes (just like the velociraptors in Jurassic Park), and the long, bony tail; all of which are absent in modern birds. Maybe it's a dinosaur, then.

On the other hand, how come it also has so many features in common with modern birds like the very long forelimbs and hands, flight feathers (which are virtually identical to those of modern birds), a wishbone and a compressed, dorsoventrally deep ischium? Maybe its a bird! But birds have beaks, not teeth and they don't have sharp claws on their wings.

The simplest explanation for this is that Archeopteryx is somehow in-between birds and dinosaurs; a close relative of the dinosaur that birds are descended from. A transitional species. But of course, you won't even consider this line of thought because it contradicts your interpretation of the bronze-age holy book on which you base your life.

I feel bad for you, friend. Because I can tell from your writing that you're not completely rètarded like many of the other creationists on this thread. Hopefully, one day you'll decide to turn that brain of yours on.

@Uyi Iredia
Lookee here:

https://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/FishToTetra.jpg

https://ncse.com/files/images/Tetrapod_transition.preview.jpg

https://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/WhaleEvo.gif

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/photogalleries/darwin-birthday-evolution/images/primary/090211-02-archaeopteryx-missing-link_big.jpg

[img]http://4.bp..com/_kRIWIqU2z38/TQbdqUTyq4I/AAAAAAAAAig/3p6AWYZNupY/s1600/dino-archaeopteryx.jpg[/img]

Uyi Iredia:
The generality of the tetrapod body plan does not preclude the fact that species are discontinuous. Note that, the implementation of the body plan varies distinctly amongst the classes of animals you mention. Furthermore, if talk of transitional species were to be correct we should a crossover between body plans of various classes of animals - we don't.

It depends on how early. As from the 3rd week in embryonic development, the difference becomes clear.

You are not serious. There is a clear lack of transitional body plans (and fossils) amongst plant and animal species.

You just stepped in a pile of dogshite. Your entire argument is based on the assertion that there are no transitional forms between species. This a completely false statement that flies in the face of over a century and a half of archaeological evidence. Not to talk of the living evidence that is before your eyes. Here are a few links, feel free to educate yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse
http://chem.tufts.edu/science/evolution/HorseEvolution.htm
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/07/feathered-dino-leaves-status-of-archaeopteryx-up-in-the-air.ars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_cetaceans

N.B. You better thank your deity that I'm away from my computer right now, because I would have buried you completely.

folaski:
^^you expect me to dump my faith for your fable? You seems to have forgoten that a fact in science today may be debunked tomorrow and those that have believed that "fact" would be disapointed. I cant base this one life of mine on scientific uncertainties. The consequence of what we are talking about is eternal. Religious claims have been very consistent & very reasuring.

I expect you to stop believing in stories just because you pastor told you or because its written in some old book (which has bee heavily redacted, edited and mistranslated by countless persons unknown). I expect you to base your beliefs on the best available evidence and to test them through logic and experimentation whenever possible. Question everything. Including the "holy scriptures". Stop being afraid of changing your beliefs. Don't just cover your ears and sing "la la la" when you hear something that contradicts your faith.

Also, if you really think "religious claims have been very consistent" then you don't know the first thing about your religion or history. This applies to all religions mind you.

plappville:
I doubt if u didn't do this to distrol the bible as a result of your comments in this thread, Why should u try to post articles/links without making proper research in validating it with more than 5 links before concluding?
The errors in the koran are all open, all historical books, the koran contradits. i know u are a muslim, but pretending. dont worry, u shall soon come out of confusion, JESUS is not all about race but love.

in this link u called JESUS WHITE JESUS ETC. I know your intents right from your very first post. Repent broda!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-807978.0.html#msg9618756

Nursery school argument. Nobody is talking about the koran here. Even if you were able to discredit the koran, it wouldn't make the bible any more legitimate. This is not an either/or situation. Learn how to debate like a rational adult.

Unless you can show us that OP's information and his sources are wrong, please keep your opinions to yourself. You're not contributing anything positive to this thread and the last thing we need is another christian vs muslim trollfest.

folaski:
^^ i love the way you discribed those beautifuly designed animals. That is to show us how God sequencially created other forms of life before human beings were made

I've tried my best to explain things to you people in simple english so that you can see reason and stop denying all the glaring evidence of evolution. But it seems that you guys are willfully blind and totally immune to logic. I'm tired! You people are beyond my help. Believe whatever fairytale you like. Believe that we all came from dirt and magic or that the sun sets in a swamp somewhere if you want.

But for the sake of Nigeria's future, stop spreading your ignorance here on Nairaland. There are young impressionable minds reading this stuff. You could be turning future Nobel laureates into blubbering fundamentalist idiöts with this stuff you keep posting.

Abeg, please!!!

Uyi Iredia:
Why are living species discontinuous ? The species list should consist of gradual change in body plan across various classes of species. Instead they are discretely separated. Be careful your answer isn't the same-old cop-out evolutionists use.

Living species are not discontinuous. The tetrapod body plan (consisting of a head, neck, trunk, 4 limbs and a tail) for instance is seen in all mammals, birds, reptiles and amphibians as well as in the fossil record going back all the way to the Devonian period 400million years ago. If you were to compare a human upper limb to that of a T. rex dinosaur, you'll find that both have a flat scapula, a coracle/coracoid process, a single proximal long bone (the humerus), 2 distal long bones (ulna and radius), 2 layers of rounded carpal bones, long metacarpals and fingers consisting of 2 or 3 phlanges.

Even when you compare humans and fish, you can clearly see the same body plan: all but the most primitive fish have a head, a neck, pectoral and pelvic fins (analogous to the upper and lower limbs) and a tail. Plus it's nearly impossible to differentiate visually between an early human embryo and an early fish embryo. Both have primordial gills, a 2-chambered heart, primitive kidneys and and a long tail.

If you really think that living species are discontinuous, then you don't know the first thing about biology and need to go back to secondary school.

aginamuk:
It's like you don't know that Nigerian hospitals do not treat gun shot wounds without a police report (emergency or not). This policy has left thousands of people dead over the years.

Blame the police for that. They're the ones who go around harrassing doctors and nurses who are just trying to do their jobs. Even though the courts and more than one IGP have declared this stûpid policy illegal, the police are still enforcing it.

People always forget that health workers have themselves and their families to think of. At the end of the day, its just a job. It's not worth entering police wahala twice a week for.

Aside from the confession, is there any real evidence linking either this Kondunga guy or Sen. Ndume to the actual bombings? To me a confession is next to worthless as evidence. Any random person will confess to killing Jesus if you beat him long enough and we all know that the police and security agencies routinely torture suspects. Plus the guy could be crazy or just an attention seeker trying to get rich off the fear of Boko Haram.

Anybody could claim to be representing BH. The fact that he was asking for money suggests that he might just be an incompetent fraudster. Unless they have some hard evidence linking this guy to the bombers or the bombmakers, then as far as I'm concerned, they haven't achieved anything.

The last thing we need is for the police to start thinking that all they need is a confession to solve a case, because they will get one by hook or by crook. And this Boko Haram issue is too important for the the security agencies to get sidetracked on irrelevances. We all know of their legendary ability to bungle high-profile cases.