₦airaland Forum

DOptical:
Another gibberish!

Jacob and his descendants are the Jewish, not Ishmael. In fact, it was stated in the bible that Ishmael would become a terrorist and that's exactly what Ishmael's descendants, including Mohammad became. As I said, Mohammad should have simply focused on Ishmael's descendants who are his Arab ancestors instead of writing gibberish about others which doesn't concern him to begin with. Shior. Of course he's got nothing to write about his Arab ancestors.

Also, Nimrod isn't Oduduwa's father.

Nimrod's children are mentioned in the bible and Oduduwa isn't among them. Lol.

In fact, Only a stupid person would even think Nimrod was Oduduwa's father. From where to where? Lol. As a matter of fact, Oduduwa's history is coded in Ifa corpus. He's a Yoruba man from Oke Ora. In fact, his relative was Oranfe, another Yoruba man from Oke Ora. Oduduwa who's a Yoruba man from Oke Ora was chosen by Ifa to become king of Ife after Obatala's group to depict Yoruba's origin founded on the fundamental of Obatala which represent light whose vessel is Oduduwa, just as the Oduduwa name depicts it thus, ensuring Yoruba always remember this origin whenever the Yoruba remember their ancestors in Ife📌

Why did Yoruba have the tradition of making the second born twins the akobi of the twins, like the case of J(acob)? I wouldn't know tbh. Of course, there are similarities between the Yoruba and the Israelites known as the Jewish (Yehudah/Yacob) but then I don't understand where that came from. Yoruba can't even remember Moses and the red sea. Lmao 🤣 Hence the question is, if Yoruba already probably parted from the Israelites while the Israelites were still in Egypt? Lol.

Anyways, Yoruba are simply Yoruba and the origin is Ife.

Another emotional outburst without rationale thought. Did I imply that Jews are descendants of Ishmael though there is no denial of their shared ancestry to Abraham. Did Ishmael and his descendants arise in Isolation?
Someone said whoever looks to the future without reflection at the past is really looking no where. Well it applies the colonialists have succeeded in making you and your like forget your ancestry which has bad effects on your present and inability to chart a prosperous future.

Does the Bible categorically say Ishmael and his descendants will be terrorists? The term wild ass from Genesis 16:12 refers to the nomadic and independent lifestyle rather than an inherently violent nature. This reflects in the characteristics of Bedouin tribes who traditionally inhabit desert regions, suggesting freedom and resilience rather than terrorism.

The ancient near eastern culture was characterized by tribal conflicts and warfare, which were common among many groups, not just those descended from Ishmael. Does your Bible not narrate conflicts of the Israelites within themselves and with other tribes? The Benjamin wars, Abimelech's tyranny, Hasmonean-Samaritan and Jewish-Samaritan conflicts to name a few

What relationship does Nimrod bare with Oduduwa? Is Nimrod the same as Lamrudu? Where did you get this from? Perhaps when you have reliable facts to discuss you may bring otherwise don't quickly display your ignorance. Is Oodua not born of Lamrudu who was fathered by Kisra of Arabia?

DOptical:
Will you keep quiet?

Mohammad who was his first wife's manager signing her ledger can read and write. Heck, he was with his first wife's nephew Waraq who was always reading the Christian bible to him. So away with the useless dumb lies. And I repeat the Jewish history had nothing to do with Mohammad considering he's no Jacob's descendant. He should have simply focused on the exploits of his Arab ancestors instead of writing gibberish about others which had nothing to do with him to begin with. Of course he had nothing to write about his Arab ancestors.

Also, you saying rubbish about Arab influencing Yoruba's terracotta in Ife shows
how stupid you are. You dey mad? What Yoruba arts look like that of Arab to begin with? How did Obalufon and his predecessors stationed in Ife making their brass and bronze arts in Ife got influenced exactly, like you were implying? You dey craze? No, tell me exactly! As a matter of fact, Yoruba predated Mohammad and his Islam.

As for the word akobi in Yoruba, yes it means the first born which is exactly what the second born of the twins becomes according to Yoruba culture, just like the case of J(acob).

Good that you can speak some truth in your last paragraph. However can you give plausible rationale why a second born twin becomes first unless you rather sit logic and rationale on their head.

Is Jacob not born from Isaac's marriage? Is Isaac not a brother of Ishmael? Do they not share the same parent in Abraham? Please answer these questions.

Present proof of Waraqa a cousin to the prophet's wife reading the bible to him else stop running by your whims and unjustified bias.

Read your history to know the origin of the Yoruba tribe. The Yorubas are said to have sprung from Lamurudu one of the kings of Mecca whose offspring were Oduduwa, the ancestor of the Yorubas, the Kings of Gogobiri and of the Kukawa, two tribes in the Hausa country.

The artistic styles introduced by Arab traders and travelers found their way into Yoruba art during Obalufon’s time.

DOptical:
You said Mohammad couldn't read or write yet same Mohammad was his first wife's manager who was writing her ledger! The pedophile criminal!

As I already stated, the Jewish had nothing to do with Mohammad who's no Jewish, considering he's not a Jacob's descendant. Jacob and his descendants are the Jewish! Mohammad should have simply focused on writing about the exploits of his Arab ancestors instead of writing gibberish about others which didn't concern him to begin with. Of course he's got nothing to write about his Arab ancestors.

Meanwhile, it seems you're just as dumb as the camel urine drinking pedophilic Arab terrorist Mohammad because how many times would I repeat myself? Are you saying you don't know the meaning of "first" before anything else? I said Mohammad and his Allah doesn't know that light was formed "first" before anything else.

And I repeat, urine isn't medicinal! It's a waste product!

Present proof that prophet Muhammad pbuh could read and write and running your uninformed thought on your type pad. The education you think you have has disillusioned you. Can I ask you if you know Mansa Musa of Mali? Do you have proof that he could read or write? Is he documented as one of the richest men of Africa?

There are no specific historical records indicating that Muhammad pbuh personally wrote a ledger for Khadija, he more likely assisted in managing her affairs effectively due to his trustworthy nature. His role would have involved ensuring accurate accounts of transactions rather than formally documenting them in written ledgers.

Pre-amalgamated Nigeria had many wealthy individuals who were often illiterate by colonial standards.

It seems you don't know of Jewish Muslims who are prominent in Islamic history.

Does Akobi not translate to mean first to be born? Kindly tell and convince me I am wrong.

DOptical:
Yoruba practice the same tradition of making the second born of the twins the akobi, just like J(acob) who became an akobi which is even written in his name!

What Ife artefact look like Arab exactly? You dey craze?

Stop linking Yoruba to Arabs who had no history thus tried copying the Jewish history. As I already stated, all the rubbish which Mohammad was championing are highly contrary to Yoruba cultural values.

The terracotta sculptures of Arabia significantly influenced the artistic development of the Yoruba civilization.

I see your Omoluabi is that of Omo gutter that resorts to insult. Continue being uncivil

DOptical:
It only proves you're not Yoruba since you don't even know the second born twin become akobi which means first born. Akobi means first born and that's exactly what the second born of the twins becomes, just like the case of J(acob), the second twin who became the first born (akobi). So where did Yoruba get such culture from? That's quite mysterious. There's also the name of the supreme creator known as Oluwa Olorun Eledumare who's also known as Ayeraye, just like Israelites' supreme creator known as Elyon Elowah El who's also known as Yahweh.

Anyways, Yoruba are simply Yoruba. Ife is the origin.

Does your Bible tell you that Jacob became the first born by resorting to deceit (lies) in order to steal the birthright of his older brother.

Have you considered archaeological findings in Ife which reveal artifacts that bear resemblance to those found in ancient Arabian sites?


A key pointer to your challenges and rejection of the truth. Tell me is this the origin of the end no matter how crooked justifies the means?

DOptical:
It's a fact that Mohammad copied from Judaism and Christianity except you're stupid because as a matter of fact, the Jewish history he kept ranting about had nothing to do with him considering he's no Jacob's descendant to begin with! Jacob and Jacob's descendants are the Jewish. Mohammad should have simply focused on writing about the exploits of Ishmael descendants which were his Arab ancestors. Of course he knew he had nothing to write about his Arab ancestors. Shior.

Also, can you comprehend anything at all? I said Mohammad and his Allah doesn't know that "light" was formed "first" before anything else. Dumb camel urine foreign religion. Also, urine isn't medicinal. Sink that into your skull.

Mohammad is a useless criminal for championing pedophilia, terrorism and 72 virgin sex objects.

Thank you very much.

I see you eliminate the fact that Jacob is a son on of Isaac.

Is Isaac a brother to Ishmael?

Unlike the biblical narratives, which are often linear and historical, the Quran employs a non-linear narrative style emphasizing moral lessons and spiritual guidance?

The stylistic elements of the Quran showcase a literary richness indicative of original composition rather than derivative authorship.

You are again caught in your lie as Muhammad pbuh could neither read nor write. He received the Quran verbally and by direct revelation to him and transmitted this in same manner.

You ignorantly and boastfully make statements you know nothing about. Do you need spoon fed direction to where Allah created the darkness and the light? So much so you lied to mislead me that akobi is elder when it really means first to be born.
Did you try to make any research about medical uses of Urea a primary component of urine.

The language you address me in is localized to your tribe? I think very much not.

DOptical:
I simply say the fact as it is.

You should know that Mohammad actually copied from Judaism and Christianity which predated Mohammad and his Islam. In fact, He kept harping on the Jewish history which had nothing to do with him to begin with, considering he's no Jacob's descendant. The funny thing was how he changed Arab's corruption of the Jewish Elah as ilah to Allah. Elah has no double LL.. simple as ABC.

Personally, I stopped taking Arab Islam serious the moment I realized that it doesn't even know that "light" was formed before anything else. What a dumb camel urine drinking Arab religion. Worse is the Arab pedophile terrorist Mohammad championing 72 virgins sex objects. What a useless criminal.

Interesting but defective argument. You obviously don't know Jewish and Arabic language are semitic languages.

From where do you derive proof that prophet Muhammad pbuh copied; indeed you can present no plausible evidence of this and just follow ignorant vain talk. You do not know Allah created both darkness and light?

You obviously don't know the continuity established in passing essentially similar message over time? Is the ancestor of Muhammad pbuh not Ishmael the brother of Isaac? Who came first between Jacob, Isaac and Ishmael?

You repeatedly present this your 72 virgin talk but I doubt you have investigated the truth of that claim?

Read up the medicinal value of urea

DOptical:
Yoruba are not Arabs. All what Mohammad was championing such as pedophilia, 72 virgins sex objects, terrorism etc is highly contrary to Yoruba cultural values.

If at all Yoruba came from anywhere, the
closet would be Israelites (Yacob), considering how Yoruba ended up being Yoruba (also known as Omoluabi). Also, Yoruba's supreme creator is Eledumare also known as Ayeraye, similar to the Israelites. There's also the Yoruba's Ofi which is similar to the woven fabric as described to the L(efi). And also other stuff such as Yoruba twin culture of making the second born the akobi (elder) of the twins just like the case of J(acob)🤔🤔 However, it's all funny at this point because while there are obvious similarities but the question is from where to where? Lol 😂 I mean Yoruba can't even remember Moses nor the red Sea 😂.. could it be Yoruba already probably parted from the Israelites while the Israelites were still in Egypt? Lmao 🤣

Anyways, Yoruba are simply Yoruba known as Omoluabi. Yoruba's Origin is Ife.

Interesting that you refer making the second born of the twins the elder. Rationally and logically akobi means the first to be born. What is the meaning of agba or agbalagba?

It seems you rather resort to a lie in defense of your opinion. How can the child born later become the first? Does Omoluabi thrive on falsehood? I get the folktale that the second twin sends the first to check out the world but tell me if the first born prevents the second from being born after completing gestation?

DOptical:
Yoruba knows nothing about Arab Allah though.

What Yoruba knows is Eledumare (also known as Ayeraye) who's a spirit while his begotten child is simply the visible manifestation of himself. Hence Eledumare expect humans to be like the begotten child by displaying Eledumare's manifestations such as righteousness, intelligence and creative works just like the begotten child had done by creating the universe which is an intelligent creative world 💥

As a matter of fact, championing pedophilia, terrorism and 72 virgins sex objects like Arab Allah does is highly contrary to Yoruba cultural values.

Well good for you that have a monotheist that begets in Yoruba religion with Christianity.
Judaism like Islam doesn't believe in a practically begeting supreme being.

I see you go on with the usual slanderous claims about Islam. What this has to do with the existence or non existence of a true God should be answered by you.

The hadith mentioning the reward of 72 virgins for the martyr in paradise is a commonly cited but weak or fabricated hadith that lacks authenticity. This specific narration is not found in the authentic collections of hadith such as Sahih al-Bukhari or Sahih Muslim, which are considered the most reliable sources of hadith.

Modern day definition describes Aisha's marriage as paedophilia but ignore other marriages of people close to her age as not? This is obvious bias and a reflection of the general dislike of the truth by a number of people since the beginning of time. Glad that despite the claims of paedophilia relations there is no single report of ailment resulting to Aisha as a result. Does this not question the veracity of the claim?

I should however congratulate you for quickly revealing your true nature and not pretending for long in your contribution. Glad that you accept there is a supreme God. What you make or interpret as the supreme is indeed a point of difference.

Sadly you don't know anything about the likely Arabian origin of the Yoruba tribe.

The Arabian Influence on African Cultures: A Case Study of the Yoruba Tribe

A straight question though; is the Eledumare report a myth or reality?

DOptical:
According to Yoruba's Ifa, it's one supreme creator known as Eledumare (also known as Ayeraye) who's a spirit however Eledumare has got a begotten child which is simply the visible manifestation of himself, considering he's a spirit.

Allah isn't a spirit. While Eledumare who's also known as Ayeraye is a spirit and his begotten child is simply the visible manifestation of himself.

What I am primarily trying to say is there is a general agreement of a supreme being though there are differences in how the supreme is understood.

Allah transcends physical and spiritual limitations; he created both.

DOptical:
No. Yoruba predated Christianity.

However it's funny and mysterious to realize that Yoruba's supreme creator known as Eledumare (Ayeraye) and the begotten chid which is simply the visible manifestation of Eledumare are similar to that of Christianity. It's quite mysterious.

DOptical:
Nah. Jesus called El. Not Allah.

Did you even realise that Jesus (Yeshu) was bearing God's name? Yeshu name is coined from the word ''Yahweh".

That's why the Christians says

Jesus (Yeshu/Yahweh) = Lord (Eloah/Elyon/Elah).

In Yoruba religion, it is

Ayeraye = Oluwa Olorun Eledumare.

The begotten child is simply the visible manifestation of Eledumare who's a spirit. The begotten child later became flesh and was born of a virgin woman (Oyigi) and the spirit of God dwelled within him. Just as John observed it on him like a dove.

Basically the names Allah, El, Elohim, Adonai, Jehovah and probably Eledumare represent the monotheistic conception of God in various religious traditions. Regardless of linguistic and cultural differences, these terms share core attributes.

Indeed some have variations in their concept of a monotheist God as some expand this monotheism into parts

Kingsempires:
is only a confused Christian that will say they don't worship Jehovah. God was called Jehovah in the bible

Perhaps they argue that Jesus never referred to God by that name. They however forget that the name Jehovah is a Latinized version of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), which represents the Hebrew name for God.

Jesus primarily spoke Aramaic and Hebrew. In these languages, He would have referred to God using terms like Elohim, Adonai, or simply as Father.

Jehovah itself was not used until around 1100 AD, long after the time of Jesus.

SIRTee15:
So tell us what contemporary evidence of Muhammed existence do we have? Even your hadiths were written 200 yrs after his death so they can't be called contemporary and their high possiblity of legendary embellishment to make Muhammed what he's not.

Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) existence in the 7th century is informed by various non-Islamic texts and anthropological evidence. Historical accounts from Byzantine and Persian sources, such as the writings of Theophilus of Edessa and John of Damascus, reference Muhammad and the rise of Islam, even though predominantly in negation of his message provide an external perspective on his life and influence. These texts illustrate that Muhammad was recognized as a significant figure during his time, often depicted in relation to the socio-political upheavals occurring in Arabia.

Archaeological findings too have unearthed inscriptions and artifacts that align with Islamic traditions while also corroborate historical timelines.

SIRTee15:
Calm down, books written late in 2nd century claiming to have been written by James or Thomas cannot be true. These disciples were long dead.
It's just common sense. That makes those gospel book instant apocryphal. The content in the books were unheard of until late 2nd century.

Interesting yard stick of comparison. Can you tell how many decades after Jesus were the accepted gospel canon written? These were how many decades after Jesus? Which one of them did Jesus physically witness?

SIRTee15:
because Allah is ONE AND HAS NO PARTS ACCORDING TO MUSLIMS.
IF ALLAH IS ONE, WHY CANT I WORSHIP HIS SHIN.

The concept of worshipping the shin of Allah does not align with Islamic teachings. In Islam, worship is directed solely to Allah in his entirety, not to any specific part or attribute. However, the mention of "the shin of Allah" appears in a metaphorical context in Islamic texts and requires interpretation.

The shin of Allah mentioned and other similar descriptions are metaphors. The "shin" represents something beyond human comprehension that indicates Allah's presence or an event on the Day of Judgment. These descriptions are not meant to be taken literally but rather point to a deeper, allegorical meaning. Islamic emphasizes that Allah is unlike anything in creation, as stated in the Quran: "There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing." (Quran 42:11). Thus, physical descriptions are seen as figurative language to convey concepts in a manner that humans can understand.

Kingsempires:
Yes like call the names of the Muslim communities that's what I meant

I am impressed by your apparent curiosity.

In 1958, the first known group conversion to Islam among the Igbo occurred in Enohia in Abakiliki Division, southeastern Nigeria. Okpani Nwagui, a Roman Catholic Christian who a year earlier had converted to Islam, mediated this conversion. He assumed the name Ibrahim Niasse Nwagui.

https://punchng.com/why-we-profess-islam-despite-discrimination-in-seast-igbo-muslims/

https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/486318-inside-the-world-of-igbo-muslims-in-nigerias-south-east-region.html?tztc=1

MaxInDHouse:
So are you saying the call to Salat doesn't really matter in such places since they're already on the right path?

You sound like without a loud call to salat the prayer is invalid. If the few Muslims call themselves individually within their localty is it wrong?

How exactly does the call to prayer translate to being on the right path?

It seems you just want to put up a response

MaxInDHouse:
Our ancestors left idols to welcome books from foreigners doesn't inherently validate or invalidate the truth of the doctrines of their newly found faith it merely reflects a change in their personal beliefs!

It's wrong to think all African ancestors were idolaters.

There were indeed ancient Africans who worshipped God amidst idolators. These individuals or groups often faced challenges due to cultural pressures but managed to maintain their faith through various means such as oral traditions, rituals focused on their understanding of God, and community support.

TenQ:
1. Are You are surprised that it is impossible to find a perfect analogy between the Trinity of YHWH and ANYTHING in creation!?
This is because there is NOTHING in creation that is like YHWH!

Thank you for confirming the folly where direct or analoguos definition fail to explain trinity.
Where did you guys get it from?
How did it become a fundamental tenet of Christianity?

TenQ:
You asked for analogy and it was given.

But mules want to mindlessly argue over their stupidity rather than present a logical rebuttal and to show that Taoheed is superior.

Unfortunately, Taoheed is a dumb doctrine that limits Allah to the level of the Taoheed of Iblis.

I asked you some simple basic questions:
Can you show that Allah is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent using the implications of the Taoheed?

A. Allah is NOT Omniscient:
Otherwise, tell me how Allah did not know that the boy slaughtered needlessly by Al-Khidr will not live to become an adult
B. Allah is NOT Omnipresent:
Otherwise, tell me if Allah can be upon his throne and beneath it at the same time. Tell be if Allah can be above the seventh heaven and below it at the same time.
C. Allah is NOT Omnipotent:
Otherwise, tell me if it is possible for Allah to enter his creation without ceasing to be Allah? Tell me if Allah can have a son without having a female consort?

Sadly you don't even comprehend who questions you.

But since you make the mistake in your statement do satisfactorily explain the Trinity with and without analogy that cannot be faulted?

I am surprised you all don't see the diversions due to an absence of a clear explanation of the trinity with or without analogy.

@Antichristian I ponder what you gain by apparently always questioning the christians anout their faith?

Is this the best way you can worship Allah that you have time to engage those who feign blindness, deafness and reasoning to reject the truth?

In any case using analogies to explain the concept of the Trinity has proven to be a futile endeavor.

Exodus 15:11 states Who among the gods is like you, Lord? Who is like you—majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?

Isaiah 40:18 asks rhetorically, To whom will you compare God? What image will you compare him to?

It often appears that Christians ignore the theological implications of these verses which suggest that God cannot be confined to human understanding or categories.

Sadly they don't understand what is said in John emphasising that God must be worshipped in sincerity.

Allah's omnipotence (Al-Qadir) refers to Allah being all-powerful. He has absolute and unlimited power over all things. He is capable of doing anything that is in line with His will. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.(Quran 2:20)

Allah's omnipresence (Al-Hadir) refers to Allah's presence everywhere, though not in a physical sense. His presence is not confined to any specific location. Instead, Allah’s knowledge, awareness, and authority encompass the entire universe. This concept assures Muslims that they are never alone, as Allah is always with them, aware of their actions and thoughts.

"And He is with you wherever you are. And Allah, of what you do, is Seeing." (Quran 57:4)

Allah's Omniscience ; Al-‘Alim, Allah is all-knowing, possessing complete and perfect knowledge of everything, past, present, and future. His knowledge is not limited by time or space. Allah knows what is hidden and what is apparent, what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen. He is aware of the innermost thoughts and secrets of every individual.

"And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them except Him. And He knows what is on the land and in the sea. Not a leaf falls but that He knows it." (Quran 6:59)

These attributes highlight Allah’s supreme and absolute nature in Islamic belief, portraying Him as the ultimate authority and sustainer of all existence.

MrPRevailer:
TRINITY is not a myth because you are not a myth.
To deny Trinity is to deny your entire existence or perhaps mere ignorance.

Don't forget that Allah
1) Misinterpreted Trinity by infering to it as God taking a wife to have a son.
2) erroneously claimed that Christian's Trinity is God the Father, the Son and Mary.
Even the most heretic Christians, Roman Catholics, JW, Mormons do not believe this.

1) Is definitely ignorance.
2) is either Ignorance or MISCHIEF. Nor hard for a god that calls himself the best of deceivers and kept Jews and Christians deceived for 600 years to believe Jesus was Crucified.

Sorry for your thinking.

Allah does not define the Trinity in explicit terms within the Quran, but rather critiques its implications through various verses aimed at maintaining monotheistic principles.

As you all are won't to do after explaining the meaning of Quran 19:71-72 in its context you bring another poorly thought out one.

Say, "I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow what is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner." (Qur'an 46:9)


In this verse, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is emphasizing his role as a messenger of Allah and clarifying that he is not unique among the messengers; previous prophets who spoke about monotheism . He humbly states that he does not have knowledge of the unseen or what will happen in the future to himself or to others. Instead, he follows and conveys only what is revealed to him by Allah.

Posted on the wrong thread in error previously

It is well established that these discussion are ignorant sinful jests. Not withstanding let the verses be appropriately understood.

In Surah Maryam from verses 68-72, Allah mentions the fate of different groups of people on the Day of Judgment. Here is the explanation of these verses:

But by your Lord, We will surely gather them and the devils; then We will bring them to be present around Hell upon their knees

Then We will surely extract from every sect/group those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence.

Then, surely it is We who are most knowing of those most worthy of burning therein.

And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. (Everybody will pass through judgement; some swiftly and others not swiftly hence the hadith about walking over the bridge over hell)

Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.


This is absolutely perfect justice unlike the fairy tale most people like to believe. The justice and fairness of Allah at the end is absolute hence the various degrees of enjoyment in paradise and various degrees of punishment in hell.

Do you think all that are righteous are righteous to the same degree? Though all of paradise is incomparable pleasure as is the reverse in hell

It is well established that these discussion are ignorant sinful jests. Not withstanding let the verses be appropriately understood.

In Surah Maryam from verses 68-72, Allah mentions the fate of different groups of people on the Day of Judgment. Here is the explanation of these verses:

But by your Lord, We will surely gather them and the devils; then We will bring them to be present around Hell upon their knees

Then We will surely extract from every sect/group those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence.

Then, surely it is We who are most knowing of those most worthy of burning therein.

And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. (Everybody will pass through judgement; some swiftly and others not swiftly hence the hadith about walking over the bridge over hell)

Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.


This is absolutely perfect justice unlike the fairy tale most people like to believe. The justice and fairness of Allah at the end is absolute hence the various degrees of enjoyment in paradise and various degrees of punishment in hell.

Do you think all that are righteous are righteous to the same degree? Though all of paradise is incomparable pleasure as is the reverse in hell.

Ohyoudidnt:
Indeed Jesus was not a child but is repeated referred to as son of God. How different is a son of God from a child of God?

Abraham who was performing the sacrifice is not classified as a child but the father.

Prayer and complaining can coexist within our relationship with God. We may start with a complaint, but ultimately turn to prayer for strength, guidance, and hope. From a desire against something to a desire for something comes the prayer.



Didn't you say



Is there reference to the Gospel in the Galatians and are the two not part of the Biblical scripture? Seems you forgot.

Jesus didn't die for mankind but this is said of him.

Jesus is also said to be God who is reported to say he so loved the world that he gave his 'only begotten son' that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. This is in line with John 3:16.

The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is seen as an expression of God’s love and mercy towards humanity. See Matthew 16:21, Mark 8:31etc.
Did Paul not say in 1 Corinthians 15:14-17 that
And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith?

Was this statement of Paul not in reference to the Gospel?

The point again is as recorded by the scripture and Gospel; if Jesus knew he was to suffer many things including death why then did he pray against it and attempt to have the disciples guard against his capture to fulfilling this?

Does it mean that Jesus the son of God did not fully submit to the will of God?

I end my submissions.

Indeed it is tiresome discussing with these folk especially those that claim an awareness beyond religion.

You are very much correct as prayer is a powerful tool for expressing our grievances and frustrations to a higher power. When we turn to prayer as a complaint, we are acknowledging our feelings of discontent and seeking comfort and resolution from the divine.

Most Christians view Jesus's crucifixion as the ultimate sacrifice for humanity. More so Hebrew 7:27 reads unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Yet Jesus said in Matthew 26:39...... Father, if it’s possible, let this cup ⌞of suffering⌟ be taken away from me. But let your will be done rather than mine.

Did Jesus not know this was how it will play out? Did the script authors feel they can turn on and off his willingness without care?

In any case the OP is simply asking if Jesus Wanted To Be Crucified, And Why?

It seems this will be in obedience to God the father who is also Jesus as said by their majority.

Expanse2020:
Awww, t
So if he already knew he had die by hanging squared he didn't need to begged God to changed his situation nevertheless asking the God he forsook him.. he should have accept the faith or the situation by saying, here home I come

Come to think of it; can we compare this to the sacrifice of Abraham though not as a means to salvation of his first son as he had pledged?

I have not come across Abraham's initial planned first child sacrifice complaining. Is there a case of Abraham's child being more submissive than the Biblical Jesus?

Is it that Abraham and his first child had a less human side than the allegedly divine and human Jesus?

Kukutente23:
So the Qur'an was written by four people

Of course not.

Excuse the typo

Explore2xmore:
Though I understand you are merely making a response.

Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, Abdullah ibn Sa’d,Zayd ibn Thabit and Ali ibn Abi Talib are amongst the scribes.

The last but is very prominent in the compilation of the Mushaf (the written form of the recitation known as Quran)

Zayd headed the committee constituted to collate and reviewed with them and others.

Do not shift the discuss.

You have been presented with facts that Najran existed at the time, there were Christians there and Prophet Mohammed pbuh invited them to Islam and effecting mutually respectful grounds which includes letters and actual meetings at least they came to meet with him

Kukutente23:
Funny non- existent names

There's no letter to Najran

The Qur'an was compiled by more people than you wrote

Do you outrightly lie that these people didn't exist?

Ali ibn Abi Talib was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, and was the fourth Rashidun caliph who ruled from 656 to 661.

I now know your primary nature.

Praxis758:
Shaik Abdullah, in his book called ‘Biography of the Prophet’ detailed how the ishmaelites came as settlers in the land originally owned and occupied by the QUATANS (Englicised as JOKTAN)

Settlership is neither ownership nor aborigines-hip. The geography of how book of Jasher (which is more detailed than Genesis) did not record the sojourn of Abraham in the land of Arabs.

Meanwhile, Abraham was originally from the land of UR in the present day Iraq. ‘The land of Iraq’ (Mesopotamia) is what most people are mistaking for ‘Land of Arab’.

The Iraqis aren’t Arabs but Medes (old historical name) while the Iranians are Persians.

Kindly do a thorough research and establish the very fundamental.

The roots of the Arab people go back much further than late biblical references. They are descended from Eber through Joktan, one of Eber’s sons. From Joktan’s descendants eventually came the nomadic Arabs who later inhabited the Arabian Peninsula. This genealogical connection is acknowledged by Islamic historians themselves, who refer to the Arabs as “beni Qatan,” meaning “sons of Joktan.

Ishmael, another son of Abraham through his wife Hagar, also played a significant role in the origin of the Arab people.

Ishmael went on to father a lineage of desert people who joined with those already existing in the Arabian Peninsula to form what would later be known as Arabs.

Iraqis are Arabs. They are a diverse population with various ethnic groups, including Iraqi Arabs, Iraqi Kurds, Iraqi Turkmen, Yazidis, Assyrians, Mandaeans, Armenians, and Marsh Arabs. The majority of Iraqis are Iraqi Arabs, making them the largest ethnic group in the country.

Studies on the genetics of the Iraqi people indicate that there are no significant differences in Y-DNA variation among Iraqi Mesopotamian Arabs, Assyrians, or Kurds. Modern genetic research suggests that Iraqi Arabs and Kurds are distantly related but that Iraqi Mesopotamian Arabs are more genetically similar to Iraqi-Assyrians than they are to Iraqi Kurds.

Kukutente23:
Who are the scribes? There's no evidence of any letter to Najran

Though I understand you are merely making a response.

Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, Abdullah ibn Sa’d,Zayd ibn Thabit and Ali ibn Abi Talib are amongst the scribes.

The last but is very prominent in the compilation of the Mushaf (the written for of the recitation known as Quran)