₦airaland Forum

Do you then state that this is a lie?
Śerāphîm and Serpents: A number of passages associate śerāphîm with serpents. As a result of the Israelites’ rebellion in the wilderness the Lord sent “venomous [śerāphîm] snakes among them” (Num. 21:6).* After the people confessed their sin, the Lord ordered Moses “to make a snake [śārāph] and put it up on a pole” (verse . In this last verse the term śārāph refers back to the full phrase “venomous [śeraphîm] snakes.” In Deuteronomy 8:15 the wilderness is described as a “thirsty and waterless land, with its venomous snakes [nāchāš śārāph, literally, “seraph snake”] and scorpions

Seraphs, described as fiery beings with multiple wings, are mentioned in religious texts as celestial entities but are never explicitly referred to as angels

Remember too that you refused to show me verses of the Quran containing Mahr. Was this to hide your ignorance or following faulty argument?

NairaLTQ:
Beings with wings are human!?

I see!

Even in defeat, you keep on struggling the gaggle of death!
Khai!

Clap for yourself. However these speak of men appearing like in costume from a Steven King thriller. Seraphim refer to fiery ones, in allusion. This word, in the original, is used elsewhere only of the "fiery serpents" (Numbers 21:6 Numbers 21:8 ; Deuteronomy 8:15 ) sent by God as his instruments to inflict on the people the righteous penalty of sin.

In any case the effect of weakening or loss of strength. Cherubims too are primarily of human form with wings. Are these significantly different from the masquerade costumes hoping it is not a case of the Biblical God deceiving the prophets or Israel or both.

NairaLTQ:
Unfortunately for you, you do not even know that there are different classes of Angels.

Trust me, I when you see them, they you will be scared. Worrisome too that the lord reqiires

Here is Gabriel before Daniel
Dan 10:5-21:
"Then I lifted up my eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in color to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude. And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell on them, so that they fled to hide themselves. Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength. Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground. And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me on my knees and on the palms of my hands. And he said to me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright: for to you am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood trembling. Then said he to me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that you did sedt your heart to understand, and to chasten yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I am come for your words. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, see, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Now I am come to make you understand what shall befall your people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days. And when he had spoken such words to me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb. And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spoke, and said to him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned on me, and I have retained no strength. For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me. Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me, And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be to you, be strong, yes, be strong. And when he had spoken to me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for you have strengthened me. Then said he, Know you why I come to you? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, see, the prince of Grecia shall come. But I will show you that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holds with me in these things, but Michael your prince."

Here are the Cherubims before Ezekiel

Ezek 10:1-11:
"Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubim there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. And he spoke to the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill your hand with coals of fire from between the cherubim, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight. Now the cherubim stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court. Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD's glory. And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaks. And it came to pass, that when he had commanded the man clothed with linen, saying, Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubim; then he went in, and stood beside the wheels. And one cherub stretched forth his hand from between the cherubim to the fire that was between the cherubim, and took thereof, and put it into the hands of him that was clothed with linen: who took it, and went out. And there appeared in the cherubim the form of a man's hand under their wings. And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubim, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the color of a beryl stone. And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the middle of a wheel. When they went, they went on their four sides; they turned not as they went, but to the place where the head looked they followed it; they turned not as they went."



Here is the Seraphim before Isaiah
Isa 6:1-7:
"In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphim: each one had six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he did fly. And one cried to another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the middle of a people of unclean lips: for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: And he laid it on my mouth, and said, See, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and your sin purged."



You know nothing sir!

NairaLTQ:
@Explore2xmore
The remaining part.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I I will let you know when my ban is over.

I think the problem is the web links

These verses don't say anything about how the angels look. Can you not back up your statement appropriately?

It is in your Bible.

2 Kings 19:10
“Thus you shall say to Hezekiah king of Judah, ‘Do not let your God in whom you trust deceive you saying, “Jerusalem will not be given into the hand of the king of Assyria.”

Isaiah 37:10
“Thus you shall say to Hezekiah king of Judah, ‘Do not let your God in whom you trust deceive you, saying, “Jerusalem will not be given into the hand of the king of Assyria.

Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, You have deceived me and I was deceived;
You have overcome me and prevailed.
I have become a laughingstock all day long;
Everyone mocks me


Your Bible says so

Dtruthspeaker:
Bible thief!

Makir is not the same as your al makir

It is often used to describe someone sly and dishonest. This is because of the way a makir deceives - they set out to cheat you by deception.

In the bible Joseph's grandson did not deceive any one.

Your wrongly and falsely claiming an attribute of Allah that's not his will never make it so

When they appear as Angels, the site is scary so that they always have to say "Don't be afraid"! or "Fear Not!" Kindly direct to such verses

Taoheed refers to the oneness of Allah and there are numerous verses that state this directly. Not implied or derived

Remind me of this explanation with exact reference to the verses.

Does Allah planning against deceivers make him a deceiver? Do you use your argument to water down your allegation?

Your muddling up verses of the Quran puts a similitude between you and satan are you the same?

You can easily see that not only Christians had a Trinitarian belief/doctrine and Allah says to all not to say or have such belief. Do you think the Quran was sent to just Christians? It was sent to all mankind and jinn.

TenQ:
Al-Makir is the name of Allah sir.
Repeating that it is not doesn't change the truth.
I gave you at least two Islamic sites that support my position.

Give me an evidence that Al-Makir is not the name of Allah?


No Christian will dispute that sometimes Angels appear as Men. But not all the time. When they appear as Angels, the site is scary so that they always have to say "Don't be afraid"! or "Fear Not!"

Your claim is that a man cannot behold an angel in their true form: and I ask.

Did Mohammed died when he saw Jibril in his true form?


None of the words are in the Bible.
It just like if I ask you to fond the word Taoheed in the Quran : does it exist?



I have explained this to you clearly.
Can Allah kill a man?
Yes!
Is Allah a killer?
No!

This is the explanation except you reject the above!


It is not the first time Satan will try to twist or muddle up the truth: hence the video means nothing. Videos exist where they say there is not God: their claims are inconsequential.

I have asked you about the cali of your God about Trinity (at least he should have a better understanding than people creating content on YouTube)

Can you prove that I worship Three Gods?
Even Allah seem to be confused about what the doctrine Trinity means
1. Is Jesus the third of God, The Quran Mary and Himself?
2. Is Allah the Messiah?
What is your reason for every Christian worship just one God.

Which of these is the true position of Allah and his messanger : then we can talk!


I ask you about what Allah said about trinity

Al-Makir is not a name of Allah.
You aren't really asking questions and it appears to me you seek extraneous reasons to comfort the inadequacy of the faith you profess.

Did the angels not adopt the likeness of man in appearing to prophets of old? Did they dine with the prophets as mortals? You sure cannot differentiate between what is and what looks like.

I imagine $100,000.00 will do you some good. Why don't you answer Reno Omokri's poser?

Mr Hadith, we have had discussions on the non absolute of these.

Explain your biblical God deceiving.

Jeremiah 4:10
Then I said, “Ah, Lord God! Surely You have utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, ‘You will have peace’; whereas a sword touches the throat

1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you

Does the video lie about Christianity syncretising pagan trinity beliefs?

Is Makir not the grandson of Joseph in your bible?

TenQ:
Yes sir.
A Man can bare to see an Angel and this is common with the prophets of Israel.
This is why they always say "Fear Not!" or " Don't be afraid!" when they appear to a mortal.

Did not the hadith say Mohammed saw Jibril in his true form at least twice?
Did he die after?

So, the question is still basic:
When Jibril appeared to Mary as a "perfect man", did he stop being an angel?


I did not translate فَتَمَثَّلَ لَهَا .
I used the translation of both Pickthall and Yusuf Ali



Why don't you answer my questions?
1. It seems you don't understand that
God can kill without him being a killer!
God can Destroy without being a Destroyer!
God can imprison without being a Jailer!

Herein the Difference!
Allah is the Deceiver (Al-Makir)


I asked you a number of questions, please why not respond to them?

Unfortunately for you word translators and wrong translations how else will Jibril appear to Mary? Can Man bare an angel appearing in it's created form?

Also do you translate فَتَمَثَّلَ لَهَا as perfect man?

You didn't address the biblical verse of God who deceives in your bible. And signed of with the abbreviation for Lucifer o.. l...?

TenQ:
Can you prove that I worship Three Gods?
Even Allah seem to be confused about what the doctrine Trinity means
1. Is Jesus the third of God, The Quran Mary and Himself?
2. Is Allah the Messiah?
What is your reason for every Christian worship just one God.



This is very untrue?
Even Allah compared himself with Baal: true or false?
Mohammed compared Allah with the Dajjal: true or false
Mohammed even compared Allah to a young man in green clothing's and black hair: is this true or false.

It's a mere rhetoric to say Allah is not comparable to anything!


The question you've not been able to answer sir. Why?
When Jubril became a perfect man, I did he stop being an angel!?

It is a simple question to which only one Muslim has been able to speak truthfully on it : the rest of you dodge answering!

I am not comparing Allah with any Angel: I am flexing your understanding of Trinity or Duality as you refuse to even understand what is written in your own books.

Are you saying categorically that it is impossible for God to enter into his Creation?

TenQ:
Which if the two websites are fake?

I can get you more! LOL!!

Is it untrue that Al-Makir is the name of Allah?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bThWd1HgnTY?si=H03xfLLS_Ds--F9c

What does your Bible verse say? Have you addressed it?

The website you quote is definitely an oddity. Which other sources say Allah has this name amongst the 99?

TenQ:
Al-Makir is one of the names of Allah sir.

1. From your Quran
Qur'an 3:54
Arabic: ومكروا ومكر الله والله خير الماكرين
Literal: And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers.

Qur'an 7:99
Arabic: افامنوا مكر الله فلايامن مكر الله الا القوم الخاسرون
Literal: Did they secure God's scheme/deceit? So no(one) trusts God's scheme/deceit except the nation the losers.

Qur'an 8:30
Arabic: واذ يمكر بك الذين كفروا ليثبتوك او يقتلوك او يخرجوك ويمكرون ويمكر الله والله خير الماكرين
Literal: And when those who disbelieved deceive/scheme at you to affix/affirm you, or kill you, or bring you out, and they scheme/deceive , and God deceives/schemes and God (is) best (of) the deceivers/schemers.


2. From Islamic websites
https://www.letsstartthinking.org/Islam/names-and-attributes-of-Allah-by-category.php

https://www.islamicity.org/covers/99-names-of-allah/


Did you see Al-Makir as one of the 99 beautiful names of Allah?

Jeremush 4:9 And it shall come to pass at that day, saith the Lord, that the heart of the king shall perish, and the heart of the princes; and the priests shall be astonished, and the prophets shall wonder.

Jeremiah 4:10
Then I said, “Ah, Lord God! Surely You have utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, ‘You will have peace’; whereas a sword touches the throat

1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you

TenQ:
When Muslim say that Allah is
"Al-Makir" = The Deceiver
and Allah is
"Al-Mutakabbir" = The Arrogant

What else do you expect?

Makir is not recognised as a name of Allah.

Al-Mutakabir is exclusive for Allah as exclusively supreme any other who bares Mutakabir is arrogant to Allah

46:13 Surely those who say, Our Lord is Allah, and then remain steadfast—there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve

46:14 It is they who will be the residents of Paradise, staying there forever, as a reward for what they used to do.


Surely! Surely!Surely!
Go and preach to the totally Godless. You should have more success there or the Christians among you that backslide or grow weak in faith.

TenQ:
Unfortunately,
All these is meaningless because it gives you no guarantee of paradise.

According to your religion, so your all Babies are born as Muslims before their parent mislead them away from Islam.


Sahih Muslim (6435 )
'A'isha, the mother of the believers, reported that a child died and I said: There is happiness for this child who is a bird from amongst the birds of Paradise. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Don't you know that Allah created the Paradise and He created the Hell and He created the dwellers for this (Paradise) and the denizens for this (Hell)?


1. Is this hadith untrue?
2. If Muslim babies may go to hell, can you justify why you shouldn't be among the inmate of hell?

Qur'an 46:9
Say: I am no new thing among the messengers (of Allah), nor know I what will be done with me or with you. I do but follow that which is inspired in me, and I am but a plain warner.



Mr Explore2xmore,
You are gambling with your eternity sir. Pause to think and ask questions!

TenQ:
Compare with
Qur'an 46:9
Say: I am no new thing among the messengers (of Allah), nor know I what will be done with me or with you. I do but follow that which is inspired in me, and I am but a plain warner.



[s]Please let's make the answers short, direct and precise[/s]
Cc:
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hakeemhakeem ItsReal correctguy101 MightySparrow SIRTee15 ANTIlSLAM innotutorial FxMasterz advocatejare

46:10 Ask ˹them, O Prophet˺, “Consider if this ˹Quran˺ is ˹truly˺ from Allah and you deny it, and a witness from the Children of Israel attests to it and then believes, whereas you act arrogantly. Surely Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.”

46:11 The disbelievers say of the believers, Had it been ˹something˺ good, they would not have beaten us to it.Now since they reject its guidance, they will say, This is˺ an ancient fabrication.

46:12 And before this Quran the Book of Moses was revealed as a guide and mercy. And this Book is a confirmation, in the Arabic tongue, to warn those who do wrong, and as good news to those who do good.

46:13 Surely those who say, Our Lord is Allah, and then remain steadfast—there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve

46:14 It is they who will be the residents of Paradise, staying there forever, as a reward for what they used to do.

Deuteronomy 20
10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you


Deuteronomy 21
10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,
11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her you may take her as your wife.
12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.

Revelation 1:8
I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty

FxMasterz:
No, he didn't confirm anything that came before him. Rather he denied them.

All the prophets that came before him prophesied of a Messaih who would be born from David's lineage, and who would be the Saviour of the world.

The Saviour came. He Performed his duties. He Fulfilled all the prophesies. Mohammed came to deny it all. I don't have any reason to believe in such a person. He does not carry a single mark of Prophethood. He told so many lies and distorted so much histories. His character was nothing to write home about.

There's no single prophet before him who killed people in order to force them to believe in his God.

Would you now show me how Mohammed and the said angel that visited him were verified?

I wouldn't go through with this discussion. There are false fixations on how people accepted Islam. We also do not agree on what messiah from the jewish tradition says.

The messiah is based on doctrine concerning the ultimate or final things is one anointed with holy anointing oil, to be king of God's kingdom, and rule the Jewish people..All of humanity is not jewish. Alternatively the messiah is one who is ordained by God to lead the people of Israel.

Nevertheless, the stories of creation, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses peace of God be on them all are related in the Quran.

Some prophets as leaders had some battles which may and may not be directly related to religion. David before becoming king participated in a battle and slew Goliath. David and Solomon as kings engaged in some form of battles. This is amongst what was confirmed in the Quran of what came before.

FxMasterz:
You've not told me how Mohammed and the angel that visited him were verified.

FxMasterz:
Now, tell me how Mohammed's encounter with angel Gabriel was verified.

I had assumed you were jesting as you tend not to believe in Allah, Muhammad s.a.w or the Qu'ran.
Q2:97
Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel should know that he revealed this ˹Quran˺ to your heart by Allah’s Will, confirming what came before it—a guide and good news for the believers.

I was offline till now.

Never mind. It was to clarify since you wrote:

FxMasterz:
Christianity is not a religion of physical things. It is spiritual. Anytime you take a step of faith to invite Jesus into your life, He would manifest Himself to you.

FxMasterz:
A resurrected Jesus said so. He demonstrated in those passages that He resurrected with His physical body. If He didn't present His physical body, then He didn't resurrect. I spoke of a ressurected Jesus. Not a spiritual Jesus. However, the resurrected Jesus can operate spiritually because He is God in His Spirit but man in His body.

Interesting though, did a spiritual Jesus say:
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have

41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, Do you have anything here to eat? 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.

FxMasterz:
Christianity is not a religion of physical things. It is spiritual. Anytime you take a step of faith to invite Jesus into your life, He would manifest Himself to you.

I updated my previous post.
A resurrected Jesus is not physically visible to many people by my understanding. Outside dining with the 11( I believe) apostles.

FxMasterz:
The resurrected Jesus is who we Christians worship.

The resurrected Jesus is the One whom Thomas called "My Lord and my God", not the physical Jesus. That's where Islam misses it. An encounter with the physical Jesus without the resurrected Jesus cannot make you a Christian. The physical Jesus lived only 33yrs. The resurrected Jesus lives forever, and is alive today. He is the One whom Paul met. He is the one all Christians meet. He is the One who returns to reign.

Now, tell me how Mohammed's encounter with angel Gabriel was verified.

I was hoping you will share where Jesus appeared to 12 apostles and Paul or 11 since Judas is reported to have killed himself.


Ananias too is a later apostle of Jesus not mentioned amongst the original 12.

Remember too Peter or Cephas had denied Jesus thrice before in fear of the authorities I think. Paul or Saul is someone who was associated with the authorities in some way though a persecutor of Christians.

FxMasterz:
Please patiently read through. Also understand that Paul's real name was Saul. His name was changed to Paul sometimes after he became a Christian.

See, in Christianity, we're commanded to try all spirits. Except you're ignorant, it's very difficult for anyone to deceive Spirit-filled Christians. We're given the Holy Spirit who gives us discernment. If Paul lied, he'll be bursted. Elymas the soccerer couldn't succeed even though he tried all he could to make himself look like a Christian. Verification usually takes place before acceptance. Then, the Holy Spirit confirms that person. For Paul, this was how it happened:

After his encounter with Jesus, he was blinded and led by the hands into Damascus. Then, the Lord Jesus Himself spoke to one of the disciples in Damascus about Paul as seen below:

Acts 9:10-19

" 10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”

“Yes, Lord,” he answered.

11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”

15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said
“Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

Please, take note of the words in Italics. Paul wasn't the one who went about telling Christians about his encounter.

And, that wasn't even enough. Paul was rejected when he attempted to join the disciples in Jerusalem on his return from Damascus."


Then in Acts 9:26:

"When he came to Jerusalem, he tried repeatedly to associate with the disciples; and yet they were all afraid of him, as they did not believe that he was a disciple.'

It took the efforts of Barnabas, one of the top disciples to interrogate Paul and afterwards present him as a true disciple to those in Jerusalem. Upon verification of his Damascus encounter, the testimonies of the disciples in Damascus, the confirmation of Ananias and the recommendation of Barnabas, he was accepted under probation before he was later commissioned by the Holy Ghost to preach. He didn't push himself forward. A word of prophesy commissioned him and Barnabas to preach in Acts 13:2.

Before he was commissioned to preach, he was further verified. He himself submitted himself for further verification. It was a serious grilling. You can read the whole account in Galatians 2. Paul stated the results of the grilling in Galatians 2:9:

"James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised."

Note that the person called Cephas here is Peter.

Now, tell us how Mohammed's encounter with the said angel Gabriel was verified.

TenQ:
What is the difference between
مُسْتَمْتِعِينَ and مهر?

corrected!

Questions :
1. What is the difference between
أُجُورَهُنَّ and مهر?

2. What is مُسْتَمْتِعِينَ ?

[[/b]

Decided against elucidating?
Don't live it hanging. I don't know. Do tell

Rabi' b. Saburah reported on the authority of his father:
The Messenger of Allah (saws) prohibited temporary marriage with women.
Sunan Abi Dawud 2073
Book 12, Hadith 28

Narrated 'Ali (RA):
Allah's Messenger (SAW) forbade Mut'a ( temporary marriage) in the year of Khaibar.
Muslim book 8, Hadith 34


Sahih Muslim 1406 h
Rabi' b. Sabra reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be
upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage.

Sahih al-Bukhari 4216
Narrated Àli bin Abi Talib:
On the day of Khaibar, Allah's Apostle forbade the Mut'a (i.e. temporary marriage) and the eating of donkey-meat.

Sahih al-Bukhari 4216
Sunan Ibn Majah 1961
It was narrated from 'Ali bin Abu Talib that:
The Messenger of Allah forbade on the Day of Khaibar, the temporary marriage of women and (he forbade) the flesh of domestic donkeys.

Mishkat al-Masabih 3147
‘Ali said that at the battle for Khaibar God’s Messenger forbade the temporary marriage
(mut’a) of women, and eating the flesh of domestic asses. (Bukhari and Muslim)


By Allah, If I hear of any married person entering a temporary marriage, I will stone him to death, unless he can bring me four witnesses who will testify that the Messenger of Allah, allowed it after he forbade it'."

Sahih Muslim 1224 c
Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) said:
Two are the Mut'as which were not permissible but only for us, i. e. temporary marriage
with women and Tamattu' in Hajj.

Sahih Muslim 1407 a
'Ali b. AbiTalib reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited on the
Day of Khaibar the contracting of temporary marriage with women and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses.

Sahih Muslim 1407 c
Muhammad b. 'Ali narrated on the authority of his father 'Ali that Allah's Apostle (may
peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited forever the contracting of temporary
marriage and eating of the flesh of the domestic asses.

TenQ:
He says Qur'an 4:24 is not about Temporary marriage contrary to the statements in black and white narrative from two hadiths by Muslim 1404a and Bukhari 5075

FxMasterz:
It's not him. Actually, he doesn't know what he's doing himself. He's under the influence of the spirit of Islam.

Fxmasterz

Must have missed this cause the mentions were quite a number.
1. The moulding and breathing into man was explicitly mentioned. If this was the case with other animals it would have been stated.
Does your Bible say God breath into the animals? Perhaps if it did there would be some more to discuss.

2. In the Quran Allah says he will create an authority on earth. ˹Remember˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to place a successive ˹human˺ authority on earth.” They asked ˹Allah˺, “Will You place in it someone who will spread corruption there and shed blood while we glorify Your praises and proclaim Your holiness?” Allah responded, “I know what you do not know.”Q2:30.
The other created animals are not authority. Man was created as an authority on earth.
Other translations has this as And when your Lord said to the angels, “Verily I am going to make in the earth a vicegerent
Meaning of vicegerent are:
A person appointed by a ruler or head of state to act as an administrative deputy.
An officer deputed by a superior or by proper authority to exercise the powers of the higher authority; one having a delegated power; a deputy; a vicar.
An officer who is deputed by a superior, or by proper authority, to exercise the powers of another; a lieutenant; a vicar.
This is the status of the creation of man. Don't you ponder how we control the affairs of much larger animals? And the plants and earth?

3. Allah did not say he moulded birds with clay. Why are you forcing this argument.

And Allah has created from water every living creature. Some of them crawl on their bellies, some walk on two legs, and some walk on four. Allah creates whatever He wills. Surely Allah is Most Capable of everything.
Q24:45

Allah would have included man explicitly here but with respect to man He began the creation of human beings with clay note he doesn't say water.
Isa a.s moulded the form of a bird from clay not starting with water as Allah to whom non can be compared that created from water.

Do you understand what the similitude refers too?

Do you refuse to see: And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour upon you and your mother: how I supported you with the holy spirit1 so you spoke to people in ˹your˺ infancy and adulthood. How I taught you writing, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. How you moulded a bird from clay—by My Will—and breathed into it and it became a ˹real˺ bird—by My Will. How you healed the blind and the lepers—by My Will. How you brought the dead to life—by My Will.

What does by my will tell you?
This will enabled Abraham pbuh kill and disect birds that came to life and answered his call.

Allah needs no co-creator and is the sole creator.
He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and who has not taken a son and has not had a partner in dominion and has created each thing and determined it with [precise] determination Q25:2

Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs.Q39:62

Do we now promote the prophets and messangers of God to the position of God for the signs he gave them to convince people of the divinity?

We should watch the reverance of those sent so as not to earn the wrath of the one who sends and has power over all.

TenQ:
1. There is no verse that says explicitly that Allah did not breathe into the animals as animals were collectively grouped without any specifics
2. Man is the highest of God's creation and Allah specifically said he breathe into Adam after moulding him with mud or clay.
3. Jesus did exactly what Allah did
a. He moulded with clay
b. He breathe into the clay
c. The clay came to life and animals.

Are you aware that the challenge of Allah was about something as small as a fly and not Man nor Jinn?
Quran 22:73
"O mankind! A similitude has been coined, so listen to it (carefully): verily! Those on whom you call besides Allah cannot create (even) a fly, even though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly snatched away a thing from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought."

Are you saying Allah is wrong and you are correct on this?


1. Do you agree that Jesus is at least a co-creator with Allah?
2. Do you know any other human with this ability to create life?


probably the descendants of the bird created by Jesus is still alive right now.
LOL!

I doesn't dawn on you that Jesus did

Would you say there was no understanding of this verse before transmitted hadith were written down and gathered in the 8th and 9th centuries; more than 100 years after the prophet's s.a.w death?

TenQ:
He says Qur'an 4:24 is not about Temporary marriage contrary to the statements in black and white narrative from two hadiths by Muslim 1404a and Bukhari 5075

School me on how the apostles verified this please? I really want to understand.

FxMasterz:
Paul's meeting of Jesus was first verified by the disciples of Jesus before he was finally accepted into the fold! Who verified the meeting of Mohammed with the said angel Gabriel? I really want an answer to this question.

Also, your Quran and your hadith are your holy books. Do you now want to deny your hadith because they're not the sayings of Allah and Mohammed? Are your hadith now filthy books?

Thirdly, keep your pbuh to yourself while referring to Christ. He is the Prince of Peace. He needs no such prayers. Mohammed needs such prayers as his fate was actually uncertain to him. He was even afraid to face death. Unfortunately for him, prayers don't work for the dead. Once you die, your fate is sealed.

TenQ:
Here is Bukhari 2155
Sahih al-Bukhari 2155
Narrated `Aisha:
Allah's Messenger came to me and I told him about the slave-girl (Barirah) Allah's Messenger said, "Buy and manumit her, for the Wala is for the one who manumits." In the evening the Prophet got up and glorified Allah as He deserved and then said, "Why do some people impose conditions which are not present in Allah's Book (Laws)? Whoever imposes such a condition as is not in Allah's Laws, then that condition is invalid even if he imposes one hundred conditions, for Allah's conditions are more binding and reliable."

So, why aren't you obeying Allah's commands?


Then why do you disregard the command of Allah in Qur'an 4:24 knowing that you should not prohibit the good things which Allah has made lawful to you according to Qur'an 5:87.

Here are laws you impose which are not present in Allah's book
Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 62, Hadith 52:
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 13 =Sahih al-Bukhari 5075:
Narrated by Abdullah bin Mas'ud: "We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, 'Shall we get ourselves castrated?' He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry a woman temporarily by giving her even a garment, and then he recited to us: 'O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you.'"

Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Hadith 3243:
Narrated by Abdullah: "We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of dates or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) and during the time of Abu Bakr until Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr bin Huraith."

Highlighted is Buhari 2155 what does it mean?

You didn't answer on Kab al abhar and I have answered, why not answer yourself?

TenQ:
He refused to answer my questions.

He has denied his hadiths now and want to turn himself into Qur'an only Muslim!

The Islam you quote is your definition of Islam from hadith not the Quran.

TenQ:
It is impossible for you to speak the truth with respect to your religion.


Volume 7, Book 62, Number 13 :
Narrated by 'Abdullah
We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated?" He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract and recited to us: 'O you who believe ! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)


This also found in

Sahih Muslim 1404a
Abdullah (b. Mas’ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah’s Messenger and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment, and ‘Abdullah then recited this verse: ‘Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like trangressers”

You are not a Qur'an only Muslim yet you don't explain the Qur'an with the hadith. I So, non of why reference the hadiths in the first place?

Did you see ANYTHING like Contract of Temporary Marriage in the two Sahih Hadiths?
This Mutah was Authorised By Allah and his prophet! Your prophet banned it then allowed it then banned it then allowed it And till he died, Mutah was still in practice till the second Khalif finally banned it.



All you have shown me is the unreliability of your hadiths narrated by Muslims, guess what compiled by Muslims and used by Muslims. How then can we trust anything from the mouth of Muslims.

You don't even trust yourselves to speak the truth! SMH!


FINALLY
On the title of your Original Post:

KAB AL AHBAR The Prominent Jew Tenq Follows And Fabrication Of Hadith -
1. This is completely untrue. Is it possible to follow a person you don't even know?
2. I did not know ANYTHING about Kab al-Ahbar till you opened this your thread
3. You could not even show that any significant number of Hadiths relative to your available hadiths are by Kab al-Ahbar
4. Kab al-Ahbar was a Jew who converted to Islam and DIED as a Muslim




Please let's call it a day!

You are too anxious!
I have answered you in my post before this.
Okay let me part answer your updated question, which verse of the Quran has مهر in it?

TenQ:
There are four questions I posted : are you saying that the perfect answer for a question is to ask the questioner the same questions?

My Basis
1. Question 1
The Qur'an 4:24 used the word أُجُورَهُنَّ rather than مهر.
So, I asked you the question:
What is the difference between
أُجُورَهُنَّ and مهر?

2. The Qur'an 4:24 used the word مُسْتَمْتِعِينَ
So, I asked the question
What is مُسْتَمْتِعِينَ ?

The other two questions are straight forward
3. Is it untrue that Qur'an 5:87 is related to Sahih al-Bukhari 5075, Muslim 1404a and subsequently Tafsir by Ibn ‘Abbâs and Ibn Kathir on Qur'an 4:24?

4. Is hadith by Bukhari 5075 and Muslim 1404a Sahih or Daif or Maudu?

No temporary marriage in Islam. All you have of it is from the Jahiliyah period and maybe early Islam.
I am not very clear on reports that some people try to validate this claim and we know there are such contractual marriages in society. Do such contract societal marriage carry the name Mutah?

What break dance? I have further educated you about the non reliability of hadith even the ones with the classification of authentic or Sahih. These often rely on the chain of narration and don't bother as much with the content of the hadith.

You that asked the question in arabic should answer. I will love to show you something and probably learn from you.

It is against my belief to explain Quran based on hadith. There will be numerous hadith which are more of people's opinions on the Quran. Sahih, Hassan, Daif or Maudu are irrelevant as these are opinions and you have seen these collections having contrary hadith so tell me what then is the use?

TenQ:
Is marrying with a temporary contract not a kind of Islamic Marriage?
Is this not what is called Mutah?

If you had answered my questions, you would not be doing break-dance about the thread.


Questions :
1. What is the difference between
أُجُورَهُنَّ and مهر?

2. What is مُسْتَمْتِعِينَ ?

3. Is it untrue that Qur'an 5:87 is related to Sahih al-Bukhari 5075, Muslim 1404a and subsequently Tafsir by Ibn ‘Abbâs and Ibn Kathir on Qur'an 4:24?

4. Is hadith by Bukhari 5075 and Muslim 1404a Sahih or Daif or Maudu?

As earlier informed.

Abū Isḥāq Kaʿb ibn Maniʿ, also known as Kaʿb al-Aḥbār, was a Jewish convert to Islam who lived in the first century of Islamic history. He played a significant role in the formation of Islamic traditions through the collation of hadith.

His desire to establish his authority and gain influence among the early Muslim community cannot be overlooked. As a convert from Judaism, he sought to establish his credibility and position within the Islamic tradition. By fabricating hadith that were attributed to the Prophet Muhammad, he positioned himself as an important source of knowledge and guidance

Being well-versed in Jewish scripture and traditions, he sought to incorporate elements of Jewish religious teachings into the Islamic narrative. By fabricating hadith that supported Jewish beliefs or linked them with Islamic practices, Abū Isḥāq Kaʿb ibn Maniʿ aimed to consolidate the cultural and religious dimensions of the Muslim community. You may be familiar with the term Israliyat or Israeli stories.

It is essential to recognize that not all of Abū Isḥāq Kaʿb ibn Maniʿ's contributions were negative or unfounded. Some of the fabricated hadith attributed to him contain historical or moral lessons that align with Islamic values.

Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from Ata ibn Yasar that Kab al-Ahbar said, "If the person who passed in front of a man praying knew what he was bringing on himself, it would be better for him to sink into the ground than to pass in front of him.
Al Muwatta Book 9, Hadith 38

Yahya related to me from Malik from his paternal uncle, Abu Suhayl ibn Malik from his father that Kab al-Ahbar said, "If you want to know what a slave has with his Lord, then look at whatever good praise follows him.
Al Muwatta Book 47, Hadith 1640

Amr b. Abu Sufyan reported:
Abu Huraira said to Ka'b al-Ahbar that the Messenger of Allah pbuh had said: For every apostle there Is a (special) prayer by which he would pray (to his Lord). I, however, intend (if Allah so willed) that I would reserve my prayer for the intercession of my Ummah on the Day of Resurrection. Ka'b said to Abu Huraira: Did you hear this from the Messenger of Allah pbuh? Abu Huraira said: Yes.
Sahih Muslim 198d

Yahya related to me from Malik, from Zayd ibn Aslam, from Ata ibn Yasar, that Kab al-Ahbar was once coming back from Syria with a group of riders, and at a certain point along the road they found some game- meat and Kab said they could eat it. When they got back to Madina they went to Umar ibn al-Khattab and told him about that, and he said, "Who told you you could do that?", and they said, ''Kab.'' He said, "He was indeed the one I made amir over you until you should return."

Later, when they were on the road to Makka, a swarm of locusts passed them by and Kab told them to catch them and eat them. When they got back to Umar ibn al-Khattab they told him about this, and he said (to Kab), "What made you tell them they could do that?" Kab said, "It is game of the sea." He said, "How do you know?", and Kab said, "Amir al- muminin, by the One in whose hand my self is, it is only the sneeze of a fish which it sneezes twice every year."

Malik was asked whether a muhrim could buy game that he had found on the way. He replied, "Game that is only hunted to be offered to people performing Hajj I disapprove of and forbid, but there is no harm in game that a man has which he does not intend for those in ihram, but which a muhrim finds and buys."

Malik said, about someone who had some game with him that he had hunted or bought at the time when he had entered into ihram, that he did not have to get rid of it, and that there was no harm in him giving it to his family.

Malik said that it was halal for some one in ihram to fish in the sea or in rivers and lakes, etc.
Muwatta Book 20 Hadith 787

Yahya related to me from Malik from Afif ibn Amr as-Sahmi that Ata ibn Yasar said, "I asked Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-As and Kab al Ahbar about someone who was uncertain in his prayer, and did not know whether he had prayed three or four rakas. Both of them said, 'He should pray another raka and then do two sajdas from the sitting position. Muwatta Chapter 3 Hadith 68

Ka'b Al-Ahbar also said every event that has taken place or will take place, on any foot of the earth, is written in the Torah, which Allah revealed to His Prophet Moses.

He also said to Umar r.a when he summoned him and asked where do you think better to build the musalla, oratory? " Ka’b replied: "Beside the rock"i.e. the rock would be the qiblah." 'Umar r.a said: "O Jewish person [son of a Jewish woman], you are mixing your Jewishness [with Islam]. I shall build it at the forefront of the mosque, as to us belong the forefronts of the mosques

I put the question back to the questuoner when he asked about مُسْتَمْتِعِينَ and مَهَرَ to answer describing it's relevance to the discussion.

You later striked this through without answering or saying why only saying corrected. I didn't mark what wasn't being examined and you replaced with أُجُورَهُنَّ.

Do feel free to tell or explain. Appreciate.

TenQ:
Mallam Explore2xmore,
Why haven't you answered my questions?


Questions :
1. What is the difference between
أُجُورَهُنَّ and مهر?

2. What is مُسْتَمْتِعِينَ ?

3. Is it untrue that Qur'an 5:87 is related to Sahih al-Bukhari 5075, Muslim 1404a and subsequently Tafsir by Ibn ‘Abbâs and Ibn Kathir on Qur'an 4:24?

4. Is hadith by Bukhari 5075 and Muslim 1404a Sahih or Daif or Maudu?

Your reliance on hadith before reading the Quran has only made you misunderstand the Quran.

Quran 4, An-Nisaa, The women adequately talks about marriage and does not refer to Mutah.

Foremost in verse 3: And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].

Then verse 4 says give women their dowries graciously. But if they willingly forego some of it, then consume it with enjoyment and pleasure.

It now follows with further guidance as to who and how you should marry.

22. Do not marry women whom your fathers married, except what is already past. That is improper, indecent, and a bad custom.

23. Forbidden for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your paternal aunts, your maternal aunts, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your foster-mothers who nursed you, your sisters through nursing, your wives' mothers, and your stepdaughters in your guardianship—born of wives you have gone into—but if you have not gone into them (essentially the marriage is not consumated), there is no blame on you. And the wives of your genetic sons, and marrying two sisters simultaneously. Except what is past. God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

24. And all married women, except those you rightfully possess. This is God’s decree, binding upon you. Permitted for you are those that lie outside these limits, provided you seek them in legal marriage, with gifts from your property, seeking wedlock, not prostitution. If you wish to enjoy them (important), then give them their dowry—a legal obligation. You commit no error by agreeing to any change to the dowry. God is All-Knowing, Most Wise.

25. If any of you lack the means to marry free believing women, he may marry one of the believing maids under your control. God is well aware of your faith. You are from one another. Marry them with the permission of their guardians, and give them their recompense fairly—to be protected—neither committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. When they are married, if they commit adultery, their punishment shall be half that of free women. That is for those among you who fear falling into decadence. But to practice self-restraint is better for you. God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.

26. God intends to make things clear to you, and to guide you in the ways of those before you, and to redeem you. God is Most Knowing, Most Wise.

So you see it doesn't talk of Mutah.

The Quran itself says one should not insist on believing in a ready-made proposition or accepting a popular hypothesis, without deep observation and reasoning, as this is misguiding (2:170, 5:104, 10:100-101, 31:21, 33:67, 37:69-71)

It also harshly criticizes the inertia of a vegetative existence that lacks critical thinking and cognition (7:179, 8:22, 10:100-101, 11:24)

As well as describes unquestioning minds as polluted (10:100); describing unreasoning folks as subhumans (7:179, 8:22, 25:44).

Once you can critically and sincerely study the Quran you will see that Allah never prescribed Mutah. Sadly commentators have mislead many to wrong understanding that Quran prescribes temporary marriage.

It is indisputable that temporary marriages was part of the Arabian culture in the time of ignorance and quite a number tried to find ways to hold on to their previous ways. Indeed sincerity , steadfastness and strength in faith isn't automatic. Therein is the real jihad of every believer. You should know too that Israelites married from the female captives of war and were most certain to kill their husbands and males.

TenQ:
My error please for the incorrect citation on Bukhari. Bukhari Book 67 Hadith 52

Error regretted!
The correct citation is below


Volume 7, Book 62, Number 13 :
Narrated by 'Abdullah
We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated?" He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract and recited to us: 'O you who believe ! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)


This also found in

Sahih Muslim 1404a
Abdullah (b. Mas’ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah’s Messenger and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment, and ‘Abdullah then recited this verse: ‘Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like trangressers”

My argument is not whether Mutual was cancelled or not. Of course it was cancelled BUT not by Allah in the Qur'an.

Your Claim 1:


My response,
1. The command to do Mutah was given by Allah in Quran 4:24
2. The command for Mutah was never abrogated by Allah in the Quran.
3. Mohammed later abrogated Allah's command for Mutah
4. The report of Mohammed abrogating the command of Allah on Mutah can only be found in the Hadith.
Conclusion :
Why do you hold on to Hadiths over the command of Allah in the Qur'an

2. I showed you from your hadiths that Qur'an 4:24 is about Temporary Marriage (Mutah).
a. Volume 7, Book 62, Number 13 =Sahih al-Bukhari 5075:
b. Sahih Muslim 1404a

3. If you doubt, I give me a single verse where Mutah was abrogated in the Qur'an.

Wrong basis for comparison. How did Allah create animals and other living things compared to how he created man?

He is the One Who has made perfectly everything He has created: He began the creation of human beings with clay, And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit…”
Q32:7-9

All other creatures were created in a different manner and he did not breath into them to give them life.

And Allah has created from water every living creature. Some of them crawl on their bellies, some walk on two legs, and some walk on four. Allah creates whatever He wills. Surely Allah is Most Capable of everything.
Q24:45

The nature and position of mankind in his creation is far different from other creatures. Allah created mankind and jinn to worship him

I have not created the jinns and men but to worship Me.Q51:56

So you see however highly placed Jesus pbuh is he created neither man nor jinn.

TenQ:
It seems you don't read the Qur'an.
Jesus said:
I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird,
then
I breathe into it and it becomes a bird