₦airaland Forum

Interesting that you are unable to provide correspondence from Hatun, DICC or other people you may know in common.

In any case the London Metropolitan Police say Hatun is no longer being treated as a missing person and it would not be appropriate for them to go into the details of either the investigation or any specific communication officers have had as part of it."

DCCI Ministries have also shared an update confirming that she has been in touch by email "saying that she is fine".

Did she reply your own email Tenq? Lol!

How many times was she attacked and stabbed anyway? Or you refer to 1 attack and multiple stabs from 1 new convert/revert? Wish you know how naturally violent some westerners/Europeans could be and the independence of Islam in this?

TenQ:
I should be the one asking you this question!

1.Is it untrue that Uthman created a SINGLE standardised Qur'an and distributed it to several cities for you Muslims After burning variants?

You remind me of an old acquaintance from over 2 decades back who says you can act intelligent by confidently misyarning. In other words when you boldly say rubbish you may fool people who don't know

The Uthman codex is the standard
text of the Quran which was
compiled and edited by the caliph
Uthman in the 7th century. It
included seven different riwayahs or
textual variants and all of them were
preserved and accepted as the
authentic and standard text of the
Quran.

You see your poor understanding of 1 that can accommodate all 7?

TenQ:
2. Can you explain why we have more than seven Arabic Qur'ans in existence.

In addition to the 7 well-known recitations, there are many other lesser-known recitations, each of which
has its own set of rules and regulations. These
additional recitations are believed to bring greater reward to the recitor due to the added emphasis on gaining Allah's pleasure. Each of the seven primary recitations has been thoroughly documented and is widely accepted by the Islamic community at large. By
reciting any of these seven recitations correctly, the recitor receives duas from innumerable angels,
attaining Added Mercy. Aside from reciting from the 7 riwayah, there are many other reasons why a muslim may choose to recite from other sources. These reasons include enhancing one's understanding of the language and interpretation, personal preference, exploring additional sources of hadith and other related religious data, and creative expression.

TenQ:
Let me help you out with a list
Hafs an Aasim
Warsh an Naafi'
Qalun an Naafi'
Al-Duri an Abu Amr
Khalaf an Hamzah
Khallad an Hamzah
Ibn Kathir an Tha'labi
Al-Kisa'i an Abi Amr
Ibn 'Amir an Shaybah
Hisham an Ibn 'Amir
Abu Ja'far an Madinah
Yaqub an Nafi'
Ruways an Rawh
Rooh an Rawh
Ishaq an Ibrahim
Idris an Dawood
Isa an Ubayd

Can you clarify what the difference between
Ibn Kathir an Tha'labi, Khalaf an Hamzah and
Khallad an Hamzah for a good example?

To your third question kindly elucidate on what meaning has changed.

TenQ:
How can this be true when Uthman destroyed all the existing Qur'ans and replaced it with one specifically in the Quraish dialect

Is this UNTRUE?


Can you explain why we have more than seven Arabic Qur'ans in existence.


Let me help you out with a list
Hafs an Aasim
Warsh an Naafi'
Qalun an Naafi'
Al-Duri an Abu Amr
Khalaf an Hamzah
Khallad an Hamzah
Ibn Kathir an Tha'labi
Al-Kisa'i an Abi Amr
Ibn 'Amir an Shaybah
Hisham an Ibn 'Amir
Abu Ja'far an Madinah
Yaqub an Nafi'
Ruways an Rawh
Rooh an Rawh
Ishaq an Ibrahim
Idris an Dawood
Isa an Ubayd

Does this question seem intelligent?
If he destroyed all and left one where then did the others arise from?

Uthman may Allah be pleased with him only acted to ensure that the Quran remained standardised and the message wasn't lost.

He ensured the standard structure that could accommodate the different styles of recitation and encouraged the consciousness of a body to see this remains so. This has been maintained all these centuries.

Check too that you didn't just write names more so where the individual names use the same style of recitation. You make a bigger deal in pauses during speech when saying the same sentence? Please are you for real?

TenQ:
Then surely you can educate all by responding to a simple question :


Which one of the Hafs or the Warsh Qur'an is the Quran of Allah?

I see you had been responded to before besides this is a recycled malicious mischief.

You are aware that there are 7 recitations of the Quran all of which were revealed. Be it Hafs or Warsh they are from Allah.
Is it alarming or surprising to you that this was done through one person?

Are you unaware that there are quite a number who have memorized all these recitals?

Do you state there being significant difference in the message conveyed in these different styles of recitation?

Ignorance unequalled.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7s902-WdkE

TenQ:
Do I need to!?
I have at least two in my phone.

I have the Arabic Warsh Qur'an
and I have the Arabic Hafs Qur'an

The 30 plus Qur'ans you will find here if you are brave enough to watch it



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y7eWEjBBw4&si=rQJUXZcEqR7ca9KO



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYxxQQoYusI?si=ASsidCtuNOI2yBTf



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYxxQQoYusI&si=fcPiSI_2B5-HJk92




Which one of the Hafs or the Warsh Qur'an is the Quran of Allah?

Greenholics:
This is the origin of hatred Muslims have for Christians


Quran 5:14

Sahih International
And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do.

Obvious difference between between being literate and educated. So we caused among them animosity. Animosity among who? No other but the Christians.

How do Christians see Catholics and vice versa?
How do Christians view Arians, Unitarians etc?

Jump to verse 5 and forgot the preceeding verses.
Quran:
9:1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.


9:2 So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.


9:3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger.

So, if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away – then know that you will not cause failure to Allah. And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.


9:4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

Then following you have:

Quran:

9:6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.


9:7 How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].


9:8 How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.


9:9 They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.

The word used here is مشركين mushrikeen, polytheist; so are you one?


Reference to Quran 3:151 which translates to mean
"We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers."

Only shows a feeling of terror or freight because 1. You disbelieve, 2. You associated with Allah and as you most likely prefer the almighty God what isn't and has no authority.

Well you may say you are an atheist so 1 suits you and if it's Ifa you are believe in Orunmila which makes it 2 and if you are more of a philosopher may your philosophy lead you to right conclusions however with the way you show just some literacy I doubt.

Use your gumsion and remember:

Greenholics:
Maybe you should show us any Hadith and agrees with you….




What about these verses, Is this still talking about judgment ?

9:5 But once the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists (Christian’s and Jews) wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way. But if they repent, perform prayers, and pay alms-tax, then set them free. Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


Also in Quran 3:151………. Should I go on??




You can lie and lie and lie again…. But you can’t change the fact that your prophet was a war lord attacking innocent people for personal gain while lying to his gullible followers that it is for Allah ( the moon god)



Now my question is, why remain in a religion that you have to lie to protect?

Indeed you are just one who likes to make baseless arguments .
You quote:
2:62) Whether they are the ones who believe (in the Arabian Prophet), or whether they are Jews, Christians or Sabians – all who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and do righteous deeds – their reward is surely secure with their Lord; they need have no fear, nor shall they grieve

Do you feign ignorance about what a good number of Christians on this platform say about Allah?

How can you abuse, try to ridicule or equate Allah to an idol and then believe in him. Is that not hypocrisy or you claim they don't know they believe in him.

There's no point mentioning any names. See few pictures attached.

Note that I will not respond to any further observations or comments on this.

Greenholics:
Calm down before you get heart attack, we are not the cause of your ignorance.


Go take a sit son! You either done know or you choose to reject your schoolers….


Go read your quran and then come answer my questions on Mutah and benefit of ur prophet urine …… I am done with you … next!!!

How despicable? You talk of Mutah in the Quran and cannot produce a verse containing this? You sure have the opinion you are conversing with one who cannot read.

Anyway whatever you think or don't think remains your view and you cannot force it on me. Do good for yourself and live your Christian life to your best and bother less about things that don't concern you more so when you don't know about it rather than display your ignorance and being meddlesome.

At least follow your own scripture.

1 Thessalonians 4:10-12 Indeed, you already show your love for all the believers throughout Macedonia. Even so, dear brothers and sisters, we urge you to love them even more. Make it your goal to live a quiet life, minding your own business and working with your hands, just as we instructed you before. Then people who are not Christians will respect the way you live, and you will not need to depend on others.


1 Peter 4:15-16 If you suffer, however, it must not be for murder, stealing, making trouble, or prying into other people’s affairs. But it is no shame to suffer for being a Christian. Praise God for the privilege of being called by his name!

And finally
Proverbs 20:3 It is an honor for a person to cease from strife, but every fool quarrels

Greenholics:
Oya clap for your self cos you can differentiate between the Quran and the Hadith…. Oya clap for yourself.

Isn’t the use of the Hadith to explain Quran verse? So hilarious you asking me what I went to the Hadith, ok no vex I will not go to your very own Hadith again….. cos it seem the Hadith really pissed you off…... can’t you see you are tap Dancing?

Even Al bukhari says the men were reluctant to have the woman because their husband were there……



So you really don’t know what Mutar is….. Eyah go ask your sheik , y’all really don’t ready your holy books …… any Muslims that dare read the Quran and the Hadith ( not just cram the Arabic without knowing the meaning ) is on his way out of Islam.



Imagine equating child pornography act to law against pedophilia


You really don’t know nothing I thought it was only the Quran you happen not to read but it seems you don’t even know the history of the world , before the US there have been 100’s of very very advanced civilizations all over the world with law against pedophilia, an example is in ancient Africa communities it was a crime punishable by death, your ignorance is not an excuse …… this is the same ignorance your Islam teacher depend on to keep y’all in the bondage of Islam.


You don’t know what Mutar is, you don’t know what your prophet said about the benefit of his followers drinking his urine , you don’t know what your Quran says, you are rejecting the Hadith and your well accessory’s Islamic scholars …… you know nothing about the religion you are defending ….. and yet you are here shamelessly making a case for pedophilia, better go learn about your religion sir.


Lastly the aim of this post I made is to get people like you to a place where you will study ( not to memorizing the verse) your holy books on your own and asking questions….. because I am 100% when you start reading your Quran you will see the lies in Islam and take a turn. Peace and good luck

See who fails to show an argument! You say Mutah and it is not in the verse of the Quran you name or can you show it to me? You tell me to read the Quran believing you yourself know it yet you cannot specifically show where the word Mutah is? Who is false claiming here?

You run to a hadith which shows your further inadequacy as there is no word called Mutah there either. Can you precisely show your argument and stop meandering?

You are diverting that's why the initial talk on urine was ignored. In any case show me what prophet Muhammad says about this and also answer what Muhammad's statement on hadith is.

You ignorantly run to Bukhari and I ask you is it Bukhari that defines Islam? How can you teach what you yourself don't know? You are unable to show me Mutah and are running your keyboard in vain. Show me you can't!

Between you and me who is memorizing? You hear mutah and don't even know where it exists! A terrible show of bad comedy is all you display. State facts not whims.

Show me the laws you claim as talk is cheap or rather keyboard hounding ain't play.

Peace and good luck in finding frivolous claims of one who follows an attempt to slander he doesn't know about? Oh please!

[quote author=Greenholics post=127437997

Oya clap for your self cos you can differentiate between the Quran and the Hadith…. Oya clap for yourself.

Isn’t the use of the Hadith to explain Quran verse? So hilarious you asking me what I went to the Hadith, ok no vex I will not go to your very own Hadith again….. cos it seem the Hadith really pissed you off…... can’t you see you are tap Dancing?

Even Al bukhari says the men were reluctant to have the woman because their husband were there……



So you really don’t know what Mutar is….. Eyah go ask your sheik , y’all really don’t ready your holy books …… any Muslims that dare read the Quran and the Hadith ( not just cram the Arabic without knowing the meaning ) is on his way out of Islam.



Imagine equating child pornography act to law against pedophilia


You really don’t know nothing I thought it was only the Quran you happen not to read but it seems you don’t even know the history of the world , before the US there have been 100’s of very very advanced civilizations all over the world with law against pedophilia, an example is in ancient Africa communities it was a crime punishable by death, your ignorance is not an excuse …… this is the same ignorance your Islam teacher depend on to keep y’all in the bondage of Islam.


You don’t know what Mutar is, you don’t know what your prophet said about the benefit of his followers drinking his urine , you don’t know what your Quran says, you are rejecting the Hadith and your well accessory’s Islamic scholars …… you know nothing about the religion you are defending ….. and yet you are here shamelessly making a case for pedophilia, better go learn about your religion sir.


Lastly the aim of this post I made is to get people like you to a place where you will study ( not to memorizing the verse) your holy books on your own and asking questions….. because I am 100% when you start reading your Quran you will see the lies in Islam and take a turn. Peace and good luck[/quote]

Greenholics:
Quran 4:24

Jami' at-Tirmidhi 3017
3 Narrated Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri:
"We captured some women on the Day of Awtas and they had husbands among their people. That was mentioned to the Messenger of Allah (SAW) so Allah revealed: ..And women already married, “except” those whom your right hands possess...
(4: 24 )'


I guess you don’t know your Quran or maybe English is the problem, your Quran said married women are forbidden “except” those your right hand possesses (war) …. Which mean free married woman are forbidden but married woman caught as a result of war isn’t forbidden …. Or did you not see the work “except” …..


Those newer explanation you just gave me of the verse are person like you that are embarrassed by their prophet thus trying to add words to the English translation to make it more acceptable…. I am showing you stuff from your Hadith explanation by known scholars ….. and you are quoting people that did their narration few years ago. …. And yes! I know Arabic is that a crime?


Yet another tap dancing ….. pedophilia has been frowned at from the beginning of times that is the reason you don’t see records of such the Bible that was written over 1000 years before your prophet was even born …. Neither was in practice in ancient African societies, it was never a thing accepted……. Or maybe you have historically evidence to backup pedo. and prove to us that it was a thing and your prophet whom Allah speaks to directly shamelessly participated ( I guess Allah didn’t tell him it was evil ) hahahahahaahhaah you can’t defend the indefensible.


Look at this one trying to be petty….. such a shame …..without lies Islam dies that is the reason I keep daring you to prove your lies or dare you to face the truth……

And yes! The genocide happening in southern kaduna ( predominantly Christian) today is in line with what your Quran demand of y’all … that is the reason there is an Islamic sect called boko haram today that re branded to herd men and bandit. This is jihad going on in souther kaduna, that is the reason some communities pay taxes to the bandit and are spared ( in like with the teaching of your prophet)….. don’t deny your brothers now, I know it is permissible to lie in Islam but you can’t get away with it here.


Oh you don’t know what Mutar is? Ok no problem….. you know nothing about the religion you practice anyway so I am not surprised, many of you are born into it and can’t leave or risk death….. so I feel your pain, I pray God gives you the grace and courage to make the change you seek.

Also you didn’t say anything about benefit of drinking your prophet urine, I assume you don’t know what that is as well.

Now I leave you with this, as an educated person any religion you choose to practice (not just Islam) take your time and read the religious text, know it for your self, don’t assume nothing and don’t want to be spoon fed by your imam, that is how lies are transferred from generation to generation. Peace

Wonderful! You quote a part of Jami' at-Tirmidhi 3017 which is what the Quran or hadith and tell me I don't know the Quran?


Can you quote the arabic verse and translate the meaning directly?

What you failed to quote in full is:

Ahmad bin Mani’ told us, Hushaym told us, Othman Al-Batti told us, on the authority of Abu Al-Khalil, on the authority of Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri, he said, “We took captives.” And there were women who were wives among their people. They mentioned that to the Messenger of God, may God bless him and grant him peace, and it was revealed: (And chaste women, except those Your right hands have dominion.) Abu Issa said this is a good hadith. And thus Al-Thawri narrated on the authority of Uthman Al-Batti, on the authority of Abu Al-Khalil, on the authority of Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri on the authority of the Prophet, may God bless him and grant him peace, there is something similar in this hadith on the authority of Abu Alqamah, and I do not know that anyone mentioned Abu Alqamah in this hadith, except for what Hammam mentioned on the authority of Qatada and Abu Al-Khalil, whose name is Salih bin Abi Maryam

What is difficult to understand from the Quran text that you need to go to the hadith to understand? And it does not contain Mutah so I still don't get your point. Show me in all you wrote where the Mutah is?

Where are the husbands of these women? It doesn't say in what you relate.


Can you tell me what Muhammad says about hadith since you use them so much in your argument?

Point of correction, you feel I am embarrassed and I am not. How do you reason for me or know my thoughts?

You claim to know what I think, and are fa mistaken. You're mistaken because you can never know what another person is thinking unless they tell you. The best you can do is to assume various things and yet you be very far off. The best way to know is to directly ask to get me to tell you.

People often don’t really know what they think about something until they have reflected on it.

You arbitrarily say paedophilia has been frowned at for 1000s of years can specify exactly where at least I mentioned the united states congress and put a date to it?

Greenholics:
These are the lies they added for non Arabic readers I dare you to copy the Arabic translation and get a translator or translate it online. …. In fact I will help you.



Quran 2:24 … ۞ وَٱلْمُحْصَنَـٰتُ مِنَ ٱلنِّسَآءِ إِلَّا مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـٰنُكُمْ ۖ كِتَـٰبَ ٱللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ ۚ وَأُحِلَّ لَكُم مَّا وَرَآءَ ذَٰلِكُمْ أَن تَبْتَغُوا۟ بِأَمْوَٰلِكُم مُّحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَـٰفِحِينَ ۚ فَمَا ٱسْتَمْتَعْتُم بِهِۦ مِنْهُنَّ فَـَٔاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةًۭ ۚ وَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِيمَا تَرَٰضَيْتُم بِهِۦ مِنۢ بَعْدِ ٱلْفَرِيضَةِ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًۭا ٢٤.


“And chaste women, except those whom your right hands possess. God has ordained for you, and He has made lawful for you anything beyond that, if you seek And keep your wealth, guarded and not transgressing. And whatever of them you enjoy, give them their due wages, and there is no blame on you for what you see. You have followed it after the obligatory prayer. Indeed, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. 2”


The verse didn’t say anything about marriage ……. let’s say for the sake of argument, why marry a women who is “still” married and her husband is alive!!!! You see your argument is weak and has no legs to stand on?



Your second point was about the pedophilia claim you asked me to prove …… and I show you where your prophet married a 6 years old …. Isn’t that pedophilia ? Like alway you decided to change the deviate saying it was a thing popular during the time of your prophet ( you mean your prophet copied the culture of the unbelievers and pagan worshipper ….. and this is your role model? ) ….. you are confusing early marriage to pre puberty marriage? Early marriage was a thing ( among the Arabs ) but they don’t marry ladies that haven’t seen their period yet! Will you allow your 6 year old daughter get marriage to a 53 year old man? I leave that for your conscience to answer.

I dare you to explain why you think the Age of Ayesha as stated in your holy books is wrong when all your Muslim scholar agree she was 6 year old …… you are too embarrassed that you want to contradict the writing of people that were there physically with your prophet and witness it all…. Smh





As for the black stone kissing, yet against you doing your tap dancing, trying to change the topic of discussion ….. i said your prophet is an idol worshipper you asked me to prove it and i did show you in your Quran.
Also muhammed doing it is all the command y’all need, cos y’all place him above God and follow all what he does hook line and sinker , he did the kissing and ask y’all to do same stating that it will take your sins away and speak for y’all on the day of judgment…… that is the reason Muslims world wide rush to Mecca till today….. you are too embarrassed to call it idolatry thus saying it’s not a commandment in Islam just to save face.


And yet again your tap dancing…. You ask me what I understand by 7th century act of war, I told you and made you understand that Muslims worldwide do not follow what the act state, I gave you examples, verifiable examples in history, some that happened back home in our country Nigeria …….. yet against you decide to tap dance and asking me what I understood by jihad ….. hahahahaah I already explained what jihad is in those examples I gave , I guess it’s bitter a pill to swallow. Whatever your white wash definition of Jihad is does not change the fact that violence is a core part of Islam … your Quran and history is enough evidence. Even till today the violence is still being practiced all over the world.



I knew you will deny being a Sunni so you can reject the Hadith, but you can’t you are stuck with it….. 90% of Muslims in Nigeria are Sunni , you can’t deny that.

Whatever you Quran say does not change the fact that Islam is divided into Sunni, shiite and Khawarij ….. as a matter of fact there are 73 sect but these 3 are the main ones. That is a fact you can’t change even if you close your eyes to it same way you can’t save time by take the battery of the clock.

Lastly I saw how you couldn’t explain Mutar, you stylishly avoided from my previous comment….. but I will not press you on that, I know you are embarrassed.

Now I have a question for you….

According to your prophet was are the benefit of drinking his urine?

Is it Quran 2:24 or 4:24? I guess that's a typo.

Anyway your acclaimed expertise in Arabic language doesn't show you that women having husbands have also been made unlawful. So far as a woman is married to a person, no other person can marry her.

Look at a list of translations of the meaning here.

Muhammad Asad

And [forbidden to you are] all married women other than those whom you rightfully possess [through wedlock]: this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all [women] beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions, taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication. And unto those with whom you desire to enjoy marriage, you shall give the dowers due to them; but you will incur no sin if, after [having agreed upon] this lawful due, you freely agree with one another upon anything [else]: behold, God is indeed all-knowing, wise

The Clear Quran, Dr. Mustafa Khattab

Also ˹forbidden are˺ married women—except ˹female˺ captives in your possession. This is Allah’s commandment to you. Lawful to you are all beyond these—as long as you seek them with your wealth in a legal marriage, not in fornication. Give those you have consummated marriage with their due dowries. It is permissible to be mutually gracious regarding the set dowry. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.


Safi Kaskas

[You are forbidden to marry] women who are already married, except from those whom your right hands held in trust . God has ordained all of this for you. Other women are lawful to you as long as you seek to marry them and not for unlawful intimacy. If you wish to enjoy women through marriage, you will give them their bridal-gift. If you should mutually choose, after fulfilling this obligation, to do something else with the bridal-gift, you will not be blamed. God is All-Knowing and All-Wise.

Could you point at the arabic text Mutah(المتعة)
in the Quran 4:24 or any other quran verse.

Do read Quran 4:22 - 26.

Educate me please in what year was the standard for paedophilia set? I know the united states congress passed the Child Pornography Prevention Act in 1996. Can you tell me of other earlier jurisdiction?

Why do you like to dare? Are we playing truth or dare to part with money or take in drink till you get drunken? You are the wise one and are presenting an argument which really is of no consequence. Did you exhaust all information about your proposal before presenting it? Watch your head shaking so it doesn't give you pain.

I never asked you to show me that my prophet was an Idol worshipper. It appears you assume this. In any case repeatedly the Quran has statements forbidding worshipping anything other than Allah the unseen almighty God. Principles of belief which is foremost to being a muslim (believer in one almighty God).

Why do you make comparisons with what happens in Nigeria today. What exactly is the link; did these events follow a directive from the prophet? Can you show how and when?

You only follow conjecture about Sunni or Shia or any other muslim sect you know. I have shown you the Quran verse which says muslims should not be divided amongst themselves. If acclaimed muslims decide to do this that issue is between them and Allah. I am simply muslim no buts.

I cannot explain Mutar or whatever you call it and implore you to show me where it is written in the Quran perharps it would be understood.

Greenholics:
It’s either you don’t know the Quran or you think we don’t know the Quran if not you should be ashamed to even ask these question, but since you want me to further disgrace your prophet…. Who am I to say no. Lol

First This is the most senseless excuse ever, so because Muhammad didn’t start slavery thus he is absolved from all blame? He attacking peaceful communities simply because they refuse to accept Islam, I thought y’all said your prophet was for all generation? So you mean to tell us your so called prophet was selling slaves just in the same way the unbelievable did? Now what is the difference between him and the unbelievers he hated so much? Allah didn’t tell him that slavery was evil?

Muhammad even wen as far as encouraging his followers to rape slaves woman ( Quran 4:24) even when their husband are alive…….

As for mutah this is a very interesting one, Mutah, (Arabic: “pleasure”) in Islamic law, a temporary marriage that is contracted for a limited time (could be hours, days or months) and involves the payment of money to the female partner in exchange for intercourse ….. isn’t this prostitution? Your Prophet was using female Muslims believers are prostitute ……. I know you will likely come lie that it was always happing during the time of your prophet and he didn’t start it, I hope you know there is no history evident from non Muslim sources to back that up? None!

Quran 4:24
Also ˹forbidden are˺ married women—except ˹female˺ captives in your possession.1 This is Allah’s commandment to you. Lawful to you are all beyond these—as long as you seek them with your wealth in a legal marriage, not in fornication. Give those you have consummated marriage with their due dowries. It is permissible to be mutually gracious regarding the set dowry. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Greenholics:
Yes he is a pedo. And here is my proof in your Hadith ( you are Sunni thus you can’t deny or call this Hadith weak, this is Al-bukhari)

“ Sahih al-Bukhari 5134 Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death)…….

What do we call a man that mounted a 9 years old? Isn’t that pedophilia, a child that haven’t seen her period yet… and this is the man you follow? You should be hide your face in shame.

You have quoted a narration in Sahih Bukhari. Show me a narration that says he was wrong to have contracted this marriage at that time. Not the present or later day evaluation of this union.

Is this difficult for you to understand as my question or you simplify don't comprehend.
There's no need going into analysis of why the ages mentioned may be wrong.

Greenholics:
As for the black stone…..
Kissing and smooching and venerating it is idol worship, we all know the pagan origin of the black stone it is in your Quran, the pagan were doing the exact Same kissing and smooching your prophet emulated, it was even a cause of concern for muhammed followers that even Umar ibn al-Khattāb reported that he came to the Black Stone and kissed it and said: "Verily, I know that you are a stone that can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) kissing you, I would not have kissed you." 
- [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

The same black stone your prophet said got blacks cos of your sins, will get eyes and mouth on the last day to intercede on y’all behalf… and will take away your sins ( just like Allah) …….. isn’t that an idol god y’all worship? And y’all make fun of Christians for believing in the trinity.

Where is the command that makes it compulsory to kiss the black stone? Did Umar command other people to kiss the stone or recording him saying this makes it a command to do so?
Is this what your wise reasoning tells you?


Then in finality give a precise definition of Jihad.


You say I am Sunni? How do you know? Indeed you show your error as you don't know me to conclude thus?
Quran 3:103
And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you – when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

Is Sunni a division or not of Muslims?

Kobojunkiee:
I fail to see what any of these private ideas of yours have to do with that which is established in Scripture and remains the same eternally.

Cheers!

Greenholics:
Why Muhammad was not a prophet?

- It is impossible that a man in his mid-54’s could engage in sexual intercourse with a nine-year-old child (Aysha), and be a prophet of G-d.

- It is impossible that a man could finance his religious and political community by robbing the trade caravans that passed through his area on their annual trips between Arabia and Syria, and be a prophet of G-d.

- It is impossible that a man could encourage his adopt son (Zeid) to divorce his wife (Zeinab) so that he, the father, could marry her, and be a prophet of G-d.

- It is impossible that a man could lie to his wife (Hafsa) to get her out of the house so that he could sleep with the slave girl (Mariyah) he had given her as a gift, and be a prophet of G-d.

- It is impossible that a man could call other men to follow him, and then watch them die one after the other in the battles he instigated to build his empire while giving them promises of the sexual Paradise with 72 virgins that awaited them, and be a prophet of G-d.

- It is impossible that a man could behead three Jewish tribes men who had lived in his city for centuries for the simple reason they refused to accept him as their leader, and be a prophet of G-d.

- It is impossible that a man could trade the Jewish wives and daughters of the men he had just beheaded for weapons and horses, and be a prophet of God.

- It is impossible that a man could be so fearful of criticism that he would send a man at night to kill the mother of a nursing child because of the poems she had written against him, and be a prophet of G-d.

- It is impossible that a man could sentence a woman to death by having her limbs attached to camels that moved in opposite direction pulling her apart, then behead her and parade her severed head through Medina, and be a prophet of G-d.

- It is impossible that a man could torture a young Jewish tribal leader to death to obtain his money, and then "marry" his 17-year old widow (Safiya) the same night, and be a prophet of G-d.

- It is impossible that a man could allow his followers to have sex with their female slaves as well as their prisoners of war, whether or not they were married, and be a prophet of G-d.

Peace




I know they will come with violence…… it is Al they know! But I dare anyone to call me a liar and ask me for proof in the Quran and Hadith ….. I dare you!!!!!

It really most matters to you what you think or don't think. You wouldn't be the first and surely not the last. We all have intellect and free will. In it all we will be responsible for our actions or inactions.

And if they deny you, [O Muhammad] - so, before them, did the people of Noah and 'Aad and Thamud deny [their prophets
And the people of Abraham and the people of Lot
And the inhabitants of Madyan. And Moses was denied, so I prolonged enjoyment for the disbelievers; then I seized them, and how [terrible] was My reproach.

Kobojunkie:
1. The title of Holy Spirit in the Old Law of Moses went to the Spirit of Eternal Life. However, the title goes to the Spirit of Truth in the New Covenant, Jesus Christ. (The Spirit of Eternal Life is offered freely to those who are born-again in Christ but the Spirit of Truth must be attained by all those who wish to become of Jesus Christ after becoming born-again.) They are two different Spirits. Both have indeed been there from even before the beginning. They were also there in the garden of Eden — the Tree of Life(Eternal Life) and the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil(Truth).

New covenant, old covenant or current covenant; how well are these adhered to? If the creator remains the same what exactly does he want of his creation? Be true to self first and live your to your best amongst others.

The spirit of eternal life is often viewed as a source of hope and comfort, particularly in times of grief and loss. How can this be meaningful if it lacks truth? We should be less critically philosophical as it is not that difficult to tell the truth except we rather get lost in philosophy.

The spirit of eternal life and the spirit of truth are interconnected concepts that have the power to inspire and guide individuals towards a deeper understanding of the ultimate nature of existence.

Whatever our individual convictions it is best we act best on them regardless of the views of another. There's no point trying to enforce individual convictions on another.

Best regards.

SIRTee15:
When u are ready to answer my question, let me know?

Which exactly is?

Just saying though.
The Holy spirit has pretty much been around for a long time.

Ezekiel’s Call to Be a Prophet
1 He said to me, “Son of man, stand up on your feet and I will speak to you.”
2 As he spoke, the Spirit came into me and raised me to my feet, and I heard him speaking to me.
3 He said: “Son of man, I am sending you to the Israelites, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against me; they and their ancestors have been in revolt against me to this very day.

Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The Word of God represents the divine revelation and communication of God's will and purpose.

The Holy Spirit has been present throughout history, working in the lives of believers before, during and after the time of Jesus.

During the time of Jesus, the Holy Spirit's role becomes even more pronounced as Jesus himself is described as being filled with the Holy Spirit (Luke 4:1)

Just saying

SIRTee15:
I'm talking about Muhammed. Show me any science of hadith that declares any positive narration of Muhammed as weak.

These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?

SIRTee15:
The way u talk, one will think of u Muslims hold hadeeths in high regard. Alas, all na lie.
If I bring hadiths narration here, u will still deny it.

Science of hadiths is an intellectual fraud. They only criticise the negativity of Muhammed as weak.
I'm yet to see any science of hadiths criticizing the positivity of Mohamed.
Science of hadiths has only one agenda...declare all embarrassing narrative of Muhammed as weak.

We have had discussions on divergent hadith/view when the issue of David and the two disputants was brought up.

One needs to be cautious as reported speech could be fairy tales at variance with the truth.

Abu Muhammad 'Abd al-Malik bin Hisham died in 833, some 201 years after the death of the Prophet. From his memory, he edited the biography of the Prophet written by Ibn Ishaq that was lost and is now only known in the writing of Ibn Hisham and Tabari. As claimed by some, Ibn Hisham did not meet Ibn Ishaq and was never his student. Ibn Hisham was born in 767 CE when Ibn Ishaq died.

Bear in mind too that one of the main reasons for questioning the trustworthiness of even Ibn Ishaq is the fact that he lived in a time when historical accuracy was not a priority. The early Islamic period was marked by wars, disputes, and power struggles, which hindered the objective reporting of historical events.

The tenacity with which falsehood fights or establishes a semblance of truth is quite wondrous.

SIRTee15:
The killing of asma bint marwa was reported in Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, the oldest biography of Muhammad.
Those Muslims who reject the the things that Ishaq says will accept what he says when it suits them.

By the way, the story is also reported in Ibn Sa'd's Kitab at-Tabaqat al-Kabir page 30–31 translation Moinul Haq.
So even if we dismiss Ibn Ishaq, we still have this story from other valid Muslim sources.

It really is not best practice responding to a lot of these views that have been propagated because at some point we all will individually know. As to if this will matter, I don't know.

You are aware there are different accounts of the death of Asma however authentic or inauthentic the sources are.

Degree of reports about the killing of `Asma bint Marwan

As for the report about the slaying of ‘Asma bint Marwan that is propagated by these liars, it is a fabricated report. It was narrated by al-Qadai in Musnad ash-Shihab (856), al-Khatib in at-Tarikh (13/99), Ibn ‘Asakir in his Tarikh (51/244), and Ibn ‘Umar al-Harbi in his Fawaid (50), all via Muhammad ibn al-Hajjaj al-Lakhami Abu Ibrahim al-Wasiti from Mujalid ibn Sa‘id from ash-Sha‘bi from Ibn ‘Abbas, who said:

A woman from Banu Khatamah wrote poetry lampooning the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and news of that reached the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and upset him. He said: “Who will deal with her for me?” A man from among her people said: I will, O Messenger of Allah! She was a seller of dates, so he went to her and said to her: Do you have any dates? She said: Yes. So she showed him some dates, and he said: I want something better than this. So she went inside to show him and he followed her and looked right and left, but he did not see anything except a small table, and he kept hitting her head with it until he killed her. Then he went to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and said: O Messenger of Allah, I have taken care of her for you. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The validity of what you have done is something that no one could dispute.”

This woman was ‘Asma bint Marwan.

“This is an invalid isnad and a fabricated report that was narrated by Muhammad ibn al-Hajjaj of whom al-Bukhari said: His hadith is to be rejected. Ibn Ma‘in said: (He is) an evil liar. Ad-Daraqutni said: (He is) a liar; and on one occasion he said: He is not trustworthy.” (Mizan al-I‘tidal, 3/509)

Ibn ‘Adiyy said:

“Muhammad ibn al-Hajjaj fabricated the hadith about the woman who used to lampoon the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), according to which when she was killed he (allegedly) said: “The validity of what you have done is something that no one could dispute.” (Al-Mawdu‘at by Ibn al-Jawzi 3/18)

This hadith was also mentioned by Shaykh al-Albani (may Allah have mercy on him) in ad-Da‘ifah (6013); he said it is fabricated (mawdu‘).

It was narrated by al-Waqidi in al-Maghazi (p. 173) and via him by al-Qadai (858):

“‘Abdullah ibn al-Harith told me, from his father, that ‘Asma bint Marwan, from Banu Umayyah ibn Zayd, was married to Yazid ibn Zayd ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), criticise Islam and incite people against the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). When news of what she said and her incitement of the people reached ‘Umayr ibn ‘Adiyy ibn Kharashah ibn Umayyah al-Khatmi, he said: O Allah, I make a vow to You that I shall kill her if You grant a safe return to Madinah to the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) – as the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was in Badr at that time. When the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) came back from Badr, ‘Umayr ibn ‘Adiyy came to her in the middle of the night and entered upon her in her house when she had a group of her children sleeping around her, including an infant who was still being breastfed. He reached out to touch her and found the infant whom she was breastfeeding. He pushed the child aside then he plunged his sword into her chest until it came out of her back. Then he went out and prayed Fajr with the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) in Madinah. When the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) finished praying, he looked at ‘Umayr and said: Did you kill the daughter of Marwan? He said: Yes, may my father be sacrificed for you, O Messenger of Allah.

‘Umayr was afraid that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) would not approve of his killing her, so he said: Is there any sin on me for that, O Messenger of Allah? He said: “The validity of what you have done is something that no one could dispute.” And this is the first time I heard this phrase from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). ‘Umayr said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) turned to those who were around him and said: “If you want to see a man who supported Allah and His Messenger, then look at ‘Umayr ibn ‘Adiyy.”

“This is a worthless isnad. Imam Ahmad said concerning al-Waqidi – whose name was Muhammad ibn ‘Umar ibn Waqid – : He is a liar; he alters hadiths. Ibn Ma‘in said: He is not trustworthy. On one occasion he said: His hadith is not to b written down. Al-Bukhari and Abu Hatim said: He is matruk (rejected). Abu Haatim and an-Nasai said: He fabricates hadith. Ibn ‘Adiyy said: His hadiths are odd and problematic. Ibn al-Madini said: al-Waqidi fabricates hadith.” (Mizan al-I‘tidal, 3/663)

An-Nasai said:

“The liars who are known for fabricating hadith are four: Ibrahim ibn Abi Yahya in Madinah, al-Waqidi in Baghdad, Muqatil in Khorasan and Muhammad ibn Sa‘id in Syria.” (Tahdhib at-Tahdhib, 9/163)

FxMasterz:
The judgment prophesied in Malachi 3 is for Israel. The dreadful day prophesied in Malachi 4 is for the world.

If we look at the language here like that in Isaiah 48:10 states, "I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction." This language suggests that the purpose of the refining fire is to purify and renew, not to condemn and destroy.

The book of Malachi is primarily concerned with addressing the corrupt practices of the Israelites and calling them to repentance. The dreadful day is presented as a consequence of their actions, but it is also portrayed as a potential turning point for the people.

FxMasterz:
Judgement day.

Perharps we should look again.

The judgment that is spoken of in Malachi primarily refers to the judgment on earth. Malachi warns of consequences for the people's actions and urges them to repent and return to God. The judgment that is described in the book is not necessarily a final judgment day, but rather a judgment that will have immediate repercussions on the people's lives and their relationship with God.

The judgment that is spoken of in Malachi primarily refers to the judgment on earth. Malachi warns of consequences for the people's actions and urges them to repent and return to God. The judgment that is described in the book is not necessarily a final judgment day, but rather a judgment that will have immediate repercussions on the people's lives and their relationship with God.

Malachi 3:2-3 describes the coming of the Lord as a refiner's fire, purifying the people and purging them of impurity. This imagery of purification and refinement suggests a judgment that is aimed at correcting and purifying the people, rather than condemning them to eternal damnation.

FxMasterz:
The Lord Jesus was speaking in prophetic language there. The clarification of that statement is found in Luke 1:17.

Prophetically, there are two events associated with Elijah. Both events were mentioned in the book of Malachi 4:5-6:

"5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

The real Elijah would accomplish verse 5 as prophesied in the book of Revelation. In the book of Revelation, Elijah was not seen "turning the hearts of the children to their fathers." He was busy commanding fire and prophesying. He was shutting the heavens. He
and Moses appeared on the scene suddenly prophesying and doing mighty and dreadful deeds. They didn't have time to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers.

John accomplished verse 6 as the "voice of one crying in the wilderness, make straight the path of the Lord." He performed this task in the spirit of Elijah. Under the same anointing that Elijah carried So, he is spiritually called Elijah. Someone in the spiritual mantle of Elijah (John the Baptist) is prophetically called Elijah but he is not physically Elijah. The real Elijah comes at the close of the age.

For example, let's look at a similar prophetic language about Jerusalem.

Revelation 11:8:
"[8] And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

You can see that the city referred to here is clearly Jerusalem. It was spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. That does not make Jerusalem Sodom or Egypt. It's a prophetic language. This prophecy is already fulfilled in our own days. Sodomy means Gayism - Homosexuality. LGBTQ things. These are things for which Israel is known today. John accurately named Israel Sodom spiritually. That does not make Israel Sodom geographically or otherwise. Egypt means a departure from the true God. A breaking of the divine covenant. This is already clear. Those guys who call themselves Israelites today don't know God. Today's Israel is spiritually Sodom and Egypt.Israel is not Egypt geographically or other wise. The same way John was spiritually Elijah but not physically Elijah.

As Jerusalem is not physically Sodom, so also John is not physically Elijah. The spirit of Sodom is upon Jerusalem just as the spirit of Elijah was upon John. However, they are two distinct individuals.

What really is the great and dreadful day?

Kobojunkie:
The last days which referred to the time of God's judgment against the nation of Israel took place in the same generation that Jesus's disciples were a part of. We are talking approximately 1900 years ago.

2. Jesus Christ informed you that Elijah had already come(past tense). Are you expecting Elijah to have to come again?

Jesus did not give judgement yet

How can Elijah come before Jesus, as stated in Matthew, and also come before the great and awesome day of the Lord, as stated in Malachi?

How do the the people ask of Elijah when
Kings 19 says:
15 And the Lord said to him, “Go, return on your way to the wilderness of Damascus. And when you arrive, you shall anoint Hazael to be king over Syria.
16 And Jehu the son of Nimshi you shall anoint to be king over Israel, and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah you shall anoint to be prophet in your place.
17 And the one who escapes from the sword of Hazael shall Jehu put to death, and the one who escapes from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha put to death.

Is Jehu and Jesus not confused? Jehu being King and putting some to death isn't a form judgement?

TenQ:
I have giving you explanation from the Bible, do you want me to give you speculations that is not supported by the scriptures?

If you think that the two witnesses are Moses and Elijah, you should be able to give us convincing scriptures that back it up. As for me, the Bible did not give us the names other than the fact that they are two men, they are witnesses, power of miracles is given to them and they would preach for a number of days before they are killed and they will be resurected from the dead.

Any two men who fulfill ALL these conditions are the witnesses irrespective of whether their name is James or Joseph or Janitor or Junaid.

You know the speculators too give biblical support for their views. I was hoping you could give some input as to which is correct.

It's fine though. Thank you.

FxMasterz:
All this lengthy talk can be rendered heretic by one simple scripture -The two appearances Jesus had on the Mount of Transfiguration.

Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration. The same Elijah that appeared to Jesus cannot be the same John tha Baptist.

Truly, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. That does not mean flesh and blood cannot appear there. Moses like Elijah probably never died too. His grave was never found. There's high tendency that their reappearance at the end of time as prophesied in the book of revelation was to accomplish the shedding off of the flesh so that they, in their spirit bodies can inherit the Kingdom of God.

Malachi 4:5 refers to the reappearance of Elijah before the coming of the dreadful day of the Lord. The dreadful day of the Lord is still future. It is a day of judgement. The first coming of Christ was not dreadful. It was for the salvation of souls. You can bear me witness that there was nothing dreadful about it. In the book of revelation, just immediately after Moses and Elijah (The two witnesses) were taken up after their redirection, the dreadful judgement of the Lord began upon the earth. That's the day Malachi was talking about.

John himself testified that "He was the voice of one crying in the wilderness" - John 1:23. Re-echoing an earlier prophecy of Isaiah about him.

"This is Elijah that was to come..." Is a prophetic language. It should not be taken literally. The literal meaning of those words was given at John's birth in Luke 1:17.

Being in the spirit of Elijah is not the same as being Elijah. The anointing or mantle of Elijah was upon him to deliver his fiery message of repentance to Israel. This is similar event as the one recorded of Elisha after the mantle of Elijah fell on him on the other side of Jordan. The sons of the prophet looking at Elisha afar off reported: "The spirit of Elijah doth rest upon Elisha". Elisha did not become Elijah at that point but he operated in the spirit of Elijah. John was not a reincarnation of Elijah. He was a distinct spirit with the zeal, fervour and anointing of Elijah.

Quite a good submission however where then do you place the statement of Jesus?

Mark 9:13
But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

Matthew 17:10-13
10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

MaxInDHouse:
The title GOD/God/god has no difference it's religionists that are making distinctions in favour of the choice they've made for instance your own Allah is GOD from your own point of view while all others are gods the same way a Trinitarian will view his Jesus as GOD but render your own Allah as god so it's meaningless what really matters is NAME of your own God.

Godliness means sacred services like the salat in Islam but what is the practical benefit?

Can the love you have for your Allah move you to sacrifice nationality and refuse to kill your fellow Muslim with whom you climbed Arafat during Hajj when the politicians ruling your country orders you to go and kill Muslims in another country?

NO! In fact at such a time the love for Allah means nothing to you in the face of nationality and racism.

That's what the Bible quote means!

You know that those who believe in so called other deities are particularly and zealous about their worship rights too.




In loving yourself you can love the almighty.
Do unto others as you will like them to do to you.

The mix up comes when some try to oppress or outsmart the other. If you are truly fair and just and this goes round there will be no problem.

When some adopt measures to covet what belongs to another problems result. And in display of anger so many unlikable things follow.