₦airaland Forum

The English tribe.

They're not heavy, they're hollow and stuffed with cloth.

Vikin: ThankGod for civilization!

I can imagine myself born at this era! Chai!

E no go easy o!

Is this to say that things are easy now? By the way you mean modernity not civilization.

Odenigbo Aroli: So let me finish my story from where I stopped yesterday; my father went into our room and searched every where for the python all to no avail,so he went and call an "eke idenmili" deity priest who came to our house with some rituals object to beg the python to come out and let her children sleep well because we(I and my sister) insist the snake must be taken out before we step foot in that whole building. The priest came and performed some rituals in front of our house and went in to look for the creature. He was calling the snake all kinds pleasing names like "nna","agbala idenmili","onolu ife nolu enyi" biko dajuo....puta ka ayi chuolu gi aja ma dunaa gi. I didn't take him more than five minutes to find a snake that my father looked for over two hrs and he came out with the python wrapped around his forearm. He petted the snake and made some ancient chant while he walked away with the snake. My sweet mother washed down our room that night and poured olive oil admist hot prayers and singing. We ended up going to bed late and I couldt stop thinking about the incident untill we left villa.

A python crawling into your house is considered a blessing. Did it go into your room?

Valon4ego: There is however the other side of this story that is not so funny. There're stories, for example of grown up ladies in certain families that grow and age in their father's house but can't marry because 'they've been married to a python'. At times after giving birth, parents might dedicate their children to these serpents, you can imagine what will happen when such persons decide to become christians.

Give us the evidence of this being part of Idemili veneration.

wesley80: Sorry pal, Spiritism is no Religion. I just hope African communities grow to a stage where they realize these are some of the reasons their people are relatively backward and face retarded progress. Yes I know it sounds absurd, but its true nontheless. i've seen such village traditions translate to huge obstacles in the lives of individuals who only knew their villages had such traditions or where themselves passive participants.
Earlier this year I accompanied a friend to an occassion in Nndoni community in Rivers state a community notorious for their reverence of the Iguana and surprisingly I didnt see any of the usually ubiquitous reptiles throughout my stay and I wondered aloud where they had all gone. It turned out that their now late king - you didnt hear he's dead from me - had asked his people to drop the tradition and allow the Iguana serving tradition go back to the town they "acquired" the tradition from (forgive me for letting the name of the town slip thru my memory, I'll confirm tomorrow) and his people wholeheartedly consented - apparently, they were all tired themselves. And so the people got liberated from the shackles of a backward tradition.
I wont bore you guys with tales of deliverance sessions I've watched of those posessed by spirits emanating from such traditions from Amadioha to pythons but my point is in 2012 we should have passed the stage of Animal worship and reverence.

You don't know what you're talking about and let me explain why:

Animal totemism isn't animal worship, the animals are considered to be part of the community, so much so they are given the same rights or more of a full human member of the community.

Spiritism exists as part of many religions. The idea of animal messengers is linked with the veneration of different deities, so that the animals become a link between the temperamental deities, and the community.

You really didn't explain what the obstacles were of having totem animals. You just explained that the Crazy Christians™ in Ndoni had enough of local traditions (like they usually do all over Nigeria) and decided to get rid of it. I can make a statement like 'the late king of nireraland had his people drop the practice of paying tide, the people happily accepted'. You leave no explanation as to why the Iguana totemism was backward, apart from the undertones in your entire post implying that all African religions and religious practices are inherently evil.

Your "deliverance" religion is bullshit, and yes, because I say so. I can pay someone to wiggle and writhe on the ground too and claim Jesus was spooning them. It's funny how the traditional deities are the only ones who even bother to show that they exist through the same practice you condemn. It's funny how you condemn the traditional answer to the conservation of endangered species like the leopard or iguana, yet you support Christian spiritism boxing matches where people come to demonstrate the skills of rolling on the floor, acting possessed, and blaming it on innocent witches who did nothing to no one or blaming it on our dear father, Amadioha.

Ashemanahabanakoshamokalakalakakawakaonyeiberibeashachakrouva. I bind and cast you into the pit of ignorance.

The python is the messenger of the earth 'goddess' ala (the highest deity in Chineke) in many places in Igboland. The Igbo deities do not appear to humans directly, in Igboland it is believed if you see a deity it means you are dead, so these agbara or arushi come through means of animal messengers, for example Amadioha comes through a white ram and ala, a python. These animals are therefore seen as sacred.It's also possible that the python may be the messenger of the deity Idemili. I've heard stories of the python (éké) making a drop in visit on successful births, some say with edible chalk in its mouth, so the python may be linked with idemili since water goddesses in Igboland are usually also fertility goddesses.

In many other parts of Igboland there are family lineages with totem animals of all kinds, from a wall gecko, to a hippo. Many of these clans were believe to have possessed knowledge of metamorphosis (i hi anu) into their totem animal, which is why it was (and still is in many places) a crime to kill any of the totem animals of the community since it could actually be your uncle in 'beast mode'.

ezotik: let me get this straight, people like u put up websites only when it substantiate ur assumptions but when a website doesn't, u push it aside because it does not support ur assumptions? how is that objective in any way especially with regards to history? i didnt need to put up any website to break down the meaning of umunede with examples for comparison. u were the one to put up a website , so the only thing u are shooting down is ur foot since u are now arguing against websites. and oh yeah, i am 100% certain are not from there. deny ur origins all u want.

Let me google that for you.

"...He likens the situation to a real Igbo town in Bendel State which is called Umunede, a name that is morphemically constituted of Umu ("People of . . ."), na ("and") and ede ("cocoyam"). The chiefs contention is that the bearers of such a name should be great cultivators of cocoyam, and yet there is no evidence to show they are — indeed. Umunede is rather known for their yams, not cocoyams."

"Folklore and the challenge of national integration", Nigerian Folklore Society, Ahmadu Bello University, 1987 [link]

ezotik: no, it is better u face east and go worry about the people u are mixed with instead of corrupting the history of others. from ika being under umu eze chima to the nonsense u have written on this thread, it shows u are clueless about the people. btw history professor, why is onitsha known as ado n'idu? let me here ur version and u can also put up a website to support ur claim.

You were wrong. Next.

ezotik: umu may or may not mean children in ika, does not mean umu has no meanin in bini like u igbos had earlier insinuated. and since the history of the people states that ede was bini, i see no reason why the meaning of umu should be defined by ika language and not bini.



where did u pull that out from? ur azz? yeah, i thought.



of course it has. it shows how people can exploit words to suit themselves, especially when 'umu' and 'ede' does not mean children and cocoyam.



i am 100% sure u are not from that area unless u want to start denying ur origins. and why the hell would i be in competition with u on who knows more about anioma languages? i wouldn't even rely on ur so-called knowledge.

I can randomly put up a website claiming that my whole family have the direct lineage from the Pharaohs of Egypt, in fact many of these websites have claimed they migrated from Egypt. We only use these website to get what we already know or to find out information that we can somewhat verify from more reliable sources (like I have a published source which Umu na ede means children and the cocoyam). You honestly want me to believe everything anyone puts up on the internet, especially when there's people making up things like umu means to carry in Ika?

Again you are 100% sure of nothing, just like you weren't able to properly decipher the name of Umunede, and just like you're refusing to accept that Umu in Ika definitely means children just like it does in many other Igbo languages. Give this mission up because it has been shot down.

ezotik: i personally think the other tribes ika are mixed with are way too quiet over this issue especially esan. if proper research is done, it will show they have way more in common with others than they do with igbos who discovered them thanks to lugard.

It would be better to decipher what your own ethnic group is mixed with because it's clear you have wondered into where you are an ignorant outsider. That there are people who migrated from neighbouring elements into the general population whose culture is overwhelmingly similar to the communities on the opposite side of the Niger, does not mean that these elements make or brake the general culture. I bet you don't even know why Onitsha is known as Ado N'Idu or where eze Chima even reached. Fact. There is no Anioma town known as Bini bi na uzọ or Ishan bi na izọ. There is no Ọgwa Bini/Ishan Ukwu. There is no such thing as Umu eze Erediuwa. Again. Stick to the investigation of the origins of your own people.

I already saw the picture from Arochukwu so.

Let me try and guess the rest:

2. Is Queen Idia. Bini
3. Might be Bini, but could be neighbouring groups. I'll go with Bini.
4. Doesn't look Nigerian. Looks 'Bantu'.
5. Efik.
6. Tiv or other Bantu people.
7. Yoruba.

1. Is an ekpo from Arochukwu.

ezotik: there is nothing wrong in my assumption. there is no way u igbos will not say alaghodaro is not land of ghodaro as with the case of umunede. and the revisionism is actually from u igbo folks. when the people demselves tell their history the way the know it, it is u igbos who impose ur own revised history on them and try to force it down their throats. then later it is u same igbos that will start whining about self-determination and how every group shuld be given that right.

Your arguments have no basis. For you to suggest that Umu in Ika doesn't mean children of, when much of Ika are under Umu eze chima, just makes all your arguments even more of a flop. The proposed Bini origin of the name doesn't even deny that Umu means 'child of', instead that ede is a Benin prince. Your arguments using alaghodoro or whatever is laughable since that has nothing to do with Umuede, children and the cocoyam.

ezotik: just take this thread for example, who were the first folks to flood the thread with ur revised assumptions and chatting all sorts of nonsense? it was u igbo folks who are not from that community. infact non of u are from the general 'anioma' area.

You don't know where anyone is from. Let us see who knows more about Anioma languages.

ezotik: so it is me that do not know the intonation of umu-nede, a place where we always stopped for food stuff on our way to ogwashi as a child? the locals call it umu-ne-de

and in that ur same link, it is also written as umunede

http://www.umunede.org/nde_umuede/index.album/nde-umuede?i=15

'Sons and Daughters of Umunede'

actually fall in bini is 'de', that is why n'ede is not fall. what is fall in ur igbo?

then start pushing for a name change of umunede and ikanize the name instead ruining the original meaning.

Agbor people also write their name as Agbor and pronounce it that way, same as Owerri, Onitsha, Ibusa, and even Ogwashi even though the name is Ogwa Nshi. Your attempt at Bini-cising the Ika name of Umuede was a fail. Now you guys can move on with the thread.

Ọ wu otuole ka madu gi sozi izu nka? Okwu gini nọzi na ala? Biko, kam so.

Eze Promoe: O were mgbe nnam ochie (nna nnem) na agwam na Ikwerre na Ngwa we otu ancestory

A biaghim I mezi okwu ndi madu (biko ka akam ruo ebe di mu mkpa) mana e chem si 'ancestry' na okwu Igbo bu agbọ? O wu eziokwu?

ezotik: the locals call it umu-nede not umu-ede.

n'ede means 'not fall' and umu means 'carry'. so umu-n'ede is 'carry and not fall'

just like ekpenede means 'leopard that does not fall' ekpen - leopard, n'ede - not fall

That would have passed my level if I hadn't know that the intonation of Umu in Umu-ede is exactly the same as umu meaning children in Ika-Umunede language. Umu ede is pronounced precisely with the high tone U, then m, low tone u, high tone e, d, low tone e. I would like to see an Umunede native argue this.

By the way, carry in Ika language is bu, and fall is da. So if it was carry and not fall my best translation would be Bunodakọ or something like that.

I've given you an example of indigenous people writing it Umu and ede in the link.

Ibibio/Annang are like Igbo, they have a Western and native names, and always have native last names. The Efik in Calabar are like Lagosians with European (mainly English) surnames. The rest of Cross River are similar to English speaking Cameroon which is also like Ibibio.

I've never met an Igbo without an Igbo first name (that is lawful and in their passport). There are actually a minority of Igbo people that descended from returnees from Sierra Leone and are concentrated in urban Onicha and Aba, these are the main Igbo with European last names. Because Igbo surnames are traditionally taken from the first name of the father, there are Igbo people who answer Western surnames like Daniel and Samuel since their father/ancestor had been baptised during the colonial era.

Hausa/Fulani/Kanuri have the most cases of 'foreign' names, from Arabic.

Kalabari and some other eastern Ijaw groups like Ibani have pure old English/Portuguese surnames, place names, ship names, nicknames, and anglicised African surnames like Polo, Pepple, Halliday, Allison, Tom, Shot, Jumbo, Duke, Hart, Princewill. These Ijaw took their names from Europan contact and are different to the Ijaw who infamously name their children Bread, and Heineken which I think are mainly from parts of Bayelsa.

ezotik: no, the correct name is umunede which is a combination of two words umu n'ede meaning 'carry and not fall'

http://members.tripod.com/umu_ede/nde_umuede/index.album

édè is cocoyam. It seems I was a little incorrect, as far as one translation I've seen, and the n is for umu na ede, meaning 'People/children and cocoyam', but I suspect the na was added after it was spelt Umunede since the locals call is Umu-ede. This name is similar to Rumuji, I think, which I believe (not certain) means the people of yam in Rivers state.

https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maz6usydBP1qjh37to1_500.jpg

"House building in the forest region
G. I. Jones. 1930s. Igbo people, Nigeria."

https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maz6gwb3Mi1qjh37to1_500.jpg

"The interior of an Obu meeting house in Asaga village showing two large life-sized figures of a male and female standing on a raised platform.
G. I . Jones, Ohafia, Nigeria. 1930s. Igbo peoples."

The only way you can find out is through research and meeting one yourself.

Where?

The correct name of Umunede is actually Umu édè.

What do you think?

This section seems to be getting back on track (sorry for derail).

[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/212244_poverty20level20in20Nigerian20zones-Punch20newspaper2020031_jpg41bdcb734786e57c46ab47dd1cbd99fd[/img]

It's harsh, but maybe this will prevent at least some other lynchings.

ChinenyeN: My favorite... [In no particular order] Ekwesu (called upon in times of war), Amadiohna (called upon for retributive justice), and Ala (highly venerated; sustainer of life, fertility and judge of persons; Ala punishes).

Which did you ancestors churu aja?

I was talking about before the whole colonial Palm oil trading expeditions. The Portuguese and others were able to visit Benin for trade. Directly after the abolition of the slave trade in British colonies they sent the navy to patrol the shores of West Africa. No one said the British didn't attack the Igbo or any other group, but before the 19th century there were few attacks on West Africans directly from Europeans. Again, Achebe is writing about what he knows and about what he has been through: the Nigeria-Biafra war, colonialism, a failed Nigeria, military dictatorship. Why would he talk about Britain when the article is specifically about starvation and the people who made it possible. Achebe doesn't even attack Yoruba people as you are implying, why should he not talk about someone who supported the starvation of children?

No. 2: Ikenga, deitiy of progress the right-hand cult.

[img]http://mccoy.lib.siu.edu/jmccall/jones/igbo/ikenga7.JPG[/img]

Pictured in female form.

Anansi means spider in Twi I think. They took that word to Jamaica and it entered patois.

Rossikk: I'm not talking about ''dwelling on'' colonialism. I'm talking about him CALLING OUT THE BRITISH for the CRIMES they committed in Igboland WHICH RESULTED IN THE DEATH AND SLAVERY OF millions of Igbos. Like Achebe, you're attempting to sweep those British crimes under the carpet, or treat them with kid gloves, only having the power of invective and insults when it's time to castigate Awolowo ''and his Yoruba people''. That's double standards.

The black nationalists in the states did not create a book of lists on what BLACK people did to them either!

You just admitted that there are no such books where people "call out" crimes against them by one group, what you have is fiction or non-fiction that is themed around those crimes, Things Fall Apart. There's no double standard here since his writing had nothing to do with listing crimes other people committed against a certain group. It was his account of the war, and his opinion on some of the leaders. It's not a history book. You're just following the rest of nairaland without even knowing what you're angry at in order to prove something I don't know. Your argument isn't even whether the person did what they did but why Achebe should write it which is bullshit. It's like an Igbo lashing someone from the mid-west who gives an account of their experiences in the war and criticising Col. Ojukwu for invading their land.

Rossikk: First off, there was no such thing as ''the West Africans''. They weren't a homogeneous group, but rather scattered groupings of whole states, empires, and smaller communities lacking adequate political and military structures to resist powerful European states hellbent on acquiring slaves. It was mostly those smaller, independent communities - many Igbo - that succumbed to the slave trade. Plus many of then engaged in military resistance before they were overwhelmed, so it's wrong to say that nobody fought the enslavers in West Africa.

There's the Europeans, there's the native Americans, there's the east Asians, there's the Arabs, there's the southern Africans and so on, so why can't someone talk about a region in general when talking about an event that happened there in general. Did Switzerland have enough power to colonise countries? No, but they benefited from it. The Igbo were nowhere near the coast by the time the Europeans arrived. They didn't really meet Europeans in their land until the 19th century. There is no evidence that the Kalabari and other peoples at the coast of what is now Nigeria carried out a full scale attack on the Portuguese when they landed, instead they became trading partners which later turned into the slave trade. We have accounts of chiefs praying to their deities that the Europeans would be able to reach their land and that they can to their land easily. All this is to say that the slave trade was made possible by African and European cooperation.

Rossikk: We know Benin did not sell slaves, but that was precisely because they were big and powerful enough to resist the trade.

Okay so why did Oyo, Asante, Kongo and the rest of the bigger power join the slave trade supposedly by force since they were as powerful as Benin? It's because they were not forced and many of these empires grew partly because of the trade in West African slaves. Why should we now expect Achebe to be talking about a slave trade that he was not affected by since he isn't a historian and his stories are mainly focused on colonialism which his direct relatives and himself witnessed?

Rossikk: It all started with slave ships armed with cannon berthing at the coasts and DEMANDING slaves from local chiefs. Any chief that refused to supply slaves was noted by the Europeans, and his neighbouring rivals armed with guns to go and sack his village and capture his people. So there was NO chance of resistance for those smaller communtities. You either participated in the trade or you were swept away, destroyed. Queen Nzinga of Angola's situation was similar to Benin - large powerful state able to resist foreign pressure. Can't compare that with coastal villages in West Africa.

Bottomline: STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THE EUROPEANS who slaughtered and enslaved your people in their millions. Today you bear English names and worship their gods despite all they did to you. Yourself and Achebe never make any excuses for Awo and Yorubas when it's time to attack and insult them, and I'm sure as hell you and Achebe would never take up a Yoruba name despite the fact Yorubas committed less than 1/1000th of the crimes the British committed against Igbos.

YOU SIMPLY CANNOT EXPLAIN YOUR DOUBLE STANDARDS.

There was no forced demand, maybe in some places and some situations which were rarer, but in most cases Europeans establish trading with a particular area before the slave trade began (like the Portuguese and the Itsekiri). Benin never sold slaves and were never confronted for it like you claim everybody was. The Europeans hardly stepped into African territory apart from Ports or even lesser to major cities like Benin. They never took their armies in that era, apart from when the British navy were sent to the coast of West Africa to stop slave trading. There are no excuses to be made, these are the facts and no amount of victim mentality will change the facts. So that isn't even something that would use against the British as a West African. So all this Achebe should keep quiet because he didn't make a history book about the British and West Africa, that's not how it works.

Anyway this thread, much like the other you made, isn't going to change anything. People are still going to have their allegiances and opinions and they will probably stay until balkanization.

Rossikk: So why did he need to ''hold our hands and feed our opinions'' about Awo ''and his Yoruba people'' in his new book?

Why has he never written a similar non-fiction book detailing the atrocities of the British? Haven't the British killed and enslaved far more Igbos than Awo could ever have done in a million lifetimes?

Because it's an account of his experience in the war which he has never done. It's not a list of things people did bad. Why would there need to be another book on the British when all or most of his books dwell on colonialism. Things Fall Apart goes into what British impact meant for Achebe's people. Even the black nationalists in the United States and Caribbean did not create a book of lists of things white people did to them. Who's going to read that?

Rossikk: Of course Africans participated in the slave trade. Not really sure they had a choice given the way everything was set up at the time - powerful European armed forces berthing huge ships armed with cannon on some village coast. It's not as though the ship's captain would walk into the village and kindly ask the chief if he didn't mind selling a few of his neighbours, ''and if not, we'll simply sail off to the next village shore''. It was more like ''we need slaves. How many thousands can you provide before dawn?''

The Europeans were far more powerful, and heavily armed, and they needed slaves. Powerful people tend to get what they want, with or without the 'consent' of the powerless, who are invariably left to negotiate their way around their powerlessness, perhaps by colluding with the new entrants. So let's call a spade a spade. Europeans - the British - came in and enslaved Igbos in their millions. Then followed it up with colonial raids that killed countless thousands of Igbos, before finally seizing Igboland completely and turning Igbos serfs on their ancestral land for nearly a 100 years!! So why do YOU still love them? Even bearing their names and worshipping their god? Achebe's English name is Albert!

The West Africans had a choice, if not, then they would have fought wars like in the case of Nzinga who was okay with selling prisoners until Portuguese demanded more able bodied people. The Benin Empire didn't sell slaves despite their contact and trade with Europe, particularly Portugal, there are probably other examples of people on or off the coast not selling slaves. The attempts at colonisation were met with wars from the native people.

The Europeans didn't even come to the shore with the navy, only Caravels used for exploring and then later trading/slave ships after relations were made with people at the coast (Kongo, Kalabari, Calabar, Kru, Asante, etc). They would wait at the shore and wait for the slave raiders to come to them or hire raiders themselves. When it came to colonisation after Africa had weakened itself by encouraging slave raids and civil wars, the British used African foot soldiers (like the King's African Rifles) from conquered and fallen territories to conquer further territory across Africa. This was the only time navies were used from Europe like in the case of Benin.