₦airaland Forum

asalimpo:
I'm saying that morality with a "God" - any entity with the power and capability to create life , create a world etc is arbitrary by reasons i stated earlier.
Same applies to the Bible God. But the Bible God, chose to limit Himself,by Himself i.e using his Word.
Also His very nature is Holiness and Love but in the case this wasnt so, He would still be legally justified
for whatever kind of God he chose to be - good or bad.

The problem now is that holiness and love do not have any moral value different from that of sinfulness and hatred, given that there is no basis for choosing any one over any other and that any of them is the right choice for a God. You might as well say God's nature is full of sin and hatred.

God limiting himself therefore amounts to nothing more than saying "I believe or declare that there are good things and bad things and I will only do those things which I believe or declare to be good." The belief or declaration is not based on the actual existence of objectively good things and bad things since nothing is actually good or bad.

This brings us back to your starting point, addressing questions about the supposed goodness of God.

asalimpo:
God can't and will not lie - isnt that morality?

It is also good for God to lie. It is right, as you say.

They don't believe he is guilty but they want his sentence commuted, not his conviction set aside. This is the level of knowledge of the legal process that they are using to analyse court proceedings. Make them shift abeg.

Lol. I'm sure the lions were not acting by the power of the Devil so the pastor has succeeded but not in the way he wanted. God works in mysterious ways.

I guess you're finally admitting that morality with God is arbitrary, being subject to the whims and caprices of your deity. There is arguably no such thing as morals with God given that his actions have no moral value and what we call moral law issuing from God is merely a list of things God likes or dislikes at the moment, not things that have any moral value of their own.

DeCleff:
City or town man can explain what actually happened to us?

Nothing happened. The story is false, as another poster has pointed out. It is intended to ridicule. You're not supposed to take it seriously.

Bush man.

asalimpo:
So if the rapture occured , you'd admit you were wrong and that atheism is a deception and you were decieved by it?
First is the admission that the event that happened is the rapture.

Your question is basically: if you admit that you're wrong, will you admit that you're wrong? I think the question answers itself.

Once I've admitted that it is the biblical rapture that occured, there is nothing else useful to add on the issue.

asalimpo:
You're beating around the bush.
I said, if (not the word) , I found out at the end of the day that God commited a falsehood or the bible
lied outrightly , I'll change my perception of God.
(that is as a christian, I believe in God). As an atheists, you dont.
And since you dont, then the rapture is simply b.s.
But, the rapture, mark of the beast are events prophesied to happen in the future .
The truth is either going to be a) it wont happen b) it will happen.
Time doesnt matter here. I could happen today/tomorrow or in the next 3000 years!
But that doesnt change the truth. which is, it will either happen or not.
My question is, if it happens what would ardent atheists say?!
Note, dissapearance of large number of people on a global scale has never occured before,
so it will be a spectacular event.
They'll be eye witnesses giving similar accounts of how it happened.
It's not going be something that can just be swept under the carpet as christian propaganda.
What spin would you as an atheist put on it?

All arguments for the existence of God have been from historical data or logic .
But this wont be an argument, or reasoning match, but rather a right before your eyes
fulfillment of prophecy.

You can interprete this question as you like because nothing i say will persuade otherwise,
but it's an interesting enquiry.

But if I believe that the rapture has taken place, what is the point of putting a spin on it?

analice107:
OK Yahweh doesn't exist. Then rest nah.

I was resting before the OP came along na. You?

I burst a tyre after venturing into a pothole on that abj kd road. I could only hang on to the steering wheel for dear life while the car sorted itself out. The road invites speed and then out of nowhere a pothole comes at you. Last time I used that road it was littered with skid marks from emergency braking. I even passed some people covering two pools of blood with sand. On the bright side the skid marks give you advance warning of a pothole. You also need to see that kd to kano road and kd to minna through dikko. The exhaustion alone from having to drive on them can kill you, given the near constant braking, swerving and tension.

asalimpo:
If i realise that the only existing God is not yahweh, I'd doubt my religion. And accuse God of lying. Period.
Because, He says in his Word that There's no other God besides Him.
Simple. Open and shut. He'd be in the same category as the devil - a liar- .
He wouldnt have legal justification to sentence a soul to hell for lying , if He himself doesnt have clean hands.
It's not complicated.

Notice how you simply fail to recognise that Yahweh could not exist. Can a lie be told by someone non existent?

".. Since the rapture can't happen as far as you are concerned.."
This is the crux, what if it happens inspite of your stance!? It blows all you held as truth to smitherings.

Yes. Truth makes mince meat of falsehood.

You see, your OP is asking atheists whether they will deny God's existence after they have come to realise that he exists. That's a catch 22. Look at how it played out in your answer above after I put the question back to you. The best I can do for you is assume that things without apparent explanation have happened, not that the rapture referred to in the bible has happened.

I will accept the creation of another life bearing universe as proof. I will accept becoming temporarily near omniscient and omnipotent too. Ideally both at the same time. But how do you define your God anyway? I don't want to make unfair demands of it.

asalimpo:
Christians dont need confirmation because they first believe before they see.
No true christian is debating the existence of God.
The issue is all about those who swore the bible was a lie and got caught gaping - A principal event occured
before their eyes. Aired on cnn, 9 o clock news etc!!!.

"These rapture , christians use to argue about on nairaland and we'll be mocking them."
I know how much you'd like to convince yourselves with any anti-God theory so i was wondering how
you guys will handle it. Against reason, come up with a theory, like the theory of evolution (which is mathematically impossible), or so.
Some out of pride will never want to admit it! Never!.
So if you were there what would you guys say! "Yes, Jesus is real and is God and the rapture just took place"
or will you go down with your straw men (arguments and theories).

Well, you already know. You should have just believed it on faith instead of waiting to hear from us. An atheist cannot recognise that rapture is taking place, just as they don't recognise that we are currently living in the end times. As soon as you do, you stop being an atheist. So I can't tell you how I'd react as an atheist if the rapture happens since the rapture can't happen as far as I'm concerned. How will you react if you find out that the only existing God is not Yahweh?

Seriously though, it is only after investigating the strange occurrences that I'll know what to say. Not like you can hear me while you're doing your favourite thing in Al jannah.

If rapture occurs you will finally have your confirmation. You no longer have to consider any questions about the existence of God. No need to bother about what atheists will say. Good luck with your rapture.

Nobody expects to literally see logic, since it is abstract. If you define your God as one which is abstract, I won't ask to see it. However, you can't claim that you have a God who can physically appear to people or otherwise measurably interfere with the physical world and then put up this kind of nonsense post when asked for physical evidence, expecting that to be the end of the matter.

The best miracles are the ones you notice. Preventing the entire accident would have gone unnoticed so we get this instead from the transcendent attention seeker.

This hoax has been around for some time now. NASA have had their say about it.

There is the issue of detecting lost time, or rather, the change in the Earth's speed of rotation for the specified period. What could possibly be the reference point that was used to detect the change? This is akin to coming across a travelling car and declaring that it was at a stand still for one hour during its journey without knowing when the journey started.

Worse, since it is the rotation of the Earth that is in issue, there simply cannot be an effect on the trajectory of anything. The Earth stopped spinning so we might now be on a collision course with Neptune. Does that make sense to you? Your electric fan does not suddenly enter a collision (or any other) course just because the blades stopped spinning.

It is quite fortunate that you don't need evidence to believe in God, given this sort of thing.

CoolUsername:
I've read parts 1 and 2 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and I was very impressed.

I'm currently reading the Gospel of FSM and to be honest, it's actually very well-written satire.

So was I. Delightful book, I must've reread it like 5 times (book 1, that is).

The Gospel is the word of God, so it should be well written. It's not satire.

malvisguy212:
in earth.

Thank you.

malvisguy212:
Jesus never give up His divine Nature, He never stop being God. He only became human.

So where was the person of Jesus Christ?

Chestity actually sounds like it has something to do with b00bs. Chest, T1tty. Happy Sunday.

Bonus question: were there still three persons in one God when Jesus left to become human?

aaronson:
I just determined the dept of your ignorance and guess what,your ignorance is so so so limitless, So if Obama a christian that means God is real, right? following that dumb logic of yours , The president of Greece is Zeuish and worship Zeus, guess what for that reason, the greek mythology god is real. Isn't it?

Again, I already condemn that lame metaphor by your wise man and I guess he's looking foo lish now but you twice him because he happens to be your role model and you consider him wiser than you eventhough you both clueless, delude, anti-wise.

You sound a bit frenzied. We are not discussing the realness of God. I was referring to your claim that believing that God created man is bad for the future of ones country. You don't have to reply but if you must please allow the words you have read to sink in first.

naijacarlovers:
I have read a lot of books in my lifetime, watched TV programs and engaged in other literary activities. In the course of doing these, I have come across lots of mistakes either in spelling, grammar or construction in the English used. But never have I seen any mistake in the Holy book, the Bible. I mean the proper bibles o. Awesome God.

Has anyone seen any?

If yes please answer with proof.

God bless us all.

Have you read the English translation of the Qur'an? Or a book of the Bible written in its original language by the original author?

aaronson:
Both the op and this poster above me ignorance is so off the top. Peace out.

The President of the USA is a Christian. Is the future of his country doomed because of that? Anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree, as one wise man told you earlier.

The consensus amongst biologists is that both the light and dark skinned man are actually the same man with different skin colour due to genes. One could not have come before the other. The skin colour is thought to be an adaptation to the level of UV light received from the sun, with higher UV levels resulting in darker skin. UV levels increase as you approach the Earth's equator and man with the genes for dark skin correspondingly proliferates there.

The holy books do not get into detail about biology as they have more pressing information to share, but if they did you would probably see this explanation there. God created man, gave him genes and let the genes sort the rest out. The genes are responsible for all of the anatomical variety you see.

You might ask: did God create the first man with dark or light skin? The answer depends on whose creation story you have chosen to read. The Bible was inspired by God through the minds of light skinned people. The Qur'an was revealed to a light skinned man. The creation stories of these light skinned people accordingly speak of a first man just like them.

If you ask your great grandma from 400 years ago, she'll tell you it was a black man that was first created, after you have explained to her what a white man is and how it is different from an albino.

So, there are many explanations. One thing I know is that God probably loves us all equally.

JackBizzle:
Bookmarked for later. When I get more evidence.


I will try to find out by either going to get case records myself or through someone. I sincerely doubt that it is as smooth as you say.

Okay, thoroughly disillusioned citizen.

JackBizzle:
Just note the phrase that I bolded in your comment. What guarantees that proper indexing?

Are there standardized methods of keeping court records across Nigeria? I highly doubt that.

And also, which courts were you talking about when you said you only had to wait few minutes to get the files?




I got my information about court records keeping from two seasoned lawyers in Lagos who have worked across Nigeria. Maybe times are changing but I respect their opinions.

Like I said, the time difference does not warrant claiming that it is difficult to lay your hands on a file.

Each of the 36 states, the fct and the republic have their own judiciary so adopting a single standard for them is not likely. I don't see the relevance of this though. If I need something from a case file in lagos, it does not matter to me that kwara state stores its case files in a different way from lagos state. Fortunately in practice most states store files in a similar way, usually chronologically.

I was talking about any court. The registrars tend to know where their files are. More commonly however, you submit an application asking a a certified true copy of whatever it is you need from the file and the registry lets you know when the ctc will be ready. This works even at the magistrate, sharia and customary court level.

You can respect their opinions while accepting that other opinions have merit too. I think the fact that the court of appeal and supreme court are able to function shows that there is decent record keeping in place at the lower levels, considering that it is the records from these courts that are used at the upper levels.

JackBizzle:
Are you speaking theory or practical?

I am saying this because, I did a course on business law and when I first wanted to start my company, I looked on google for a government database of registered companies like they have in the UK. I couldnt find one.

This then led me to ask my close acquaintances who are lawyers about court records and stuff. They claimed that it is difficult to get hands on court proceedings, especially in the past. That the process was difficult.


So, yes they might keep records but how well is it kept and how easy is it to access the records? In my hometown where the local court is struggling with electricity and everything is done on file and paper. One misfiling and a whole case disappears.


Even your passport files are thrown in disorganized heaps at the immigration office. My uncle's passport (not the file) was mistakenly tossed into a heap of other passports in 2010 when they thought he was not around for collection after calling his name. Right there and then, he came and they couldnt find his passport for three days.


This is Nigeria.

The records are kept reasonably well. While you might find a given file faster if proper indexing has been done, I don't imagine the time difference warrants claiming that it is difficult to lay hands on court records. I've never spent more than a few minutes waiting for a file to be retrieved. This is only for when you want to peruse the file anyway. Otherwise you just submit an application for whatever it is you need from the file and the registry tells you when to return for it.

This is Nigeria indeed, but it seemed like you were making it about the legal system.

JackBizzle:


Interesting. I know for a fact that record keeping of court proceedings in Nigeria is lackadaisical. I wonder why you would try to lie and save face on this issue.

I asked you about getting court records from state high court cases.

Guy, come off it. This is embarassing

The judges, magistrates, alkalis, chairmen, assessors or what have you always write down the proceedings of the court they are conducting. Getting the record is as simple as applying for it from the registry and paying the requisite fee. Where did you get your fact from?

Hian