₦airaland Forum

MamiWata: Vodun means spirit. Are you asserting that the spirits are not really spirits but just names given to concepts like intuition? If so you are disrespecting the very foundation of vodun.

I believe you have identified yourself as an atheist who believes in the philosophical unerpinnings of Ifa. Why do you feel it is necessary to adhere to any philosophical package. I thought atheists were the ones who put themselves out there and lives their lives without a moral blueprint other than the one that feels right to them. Are you saying that atheists also desire a group identity in the same way other religious do? Why is that necessary? I think that being part of a group is what people really want. The title of the group seems to be secondary.

- firstly, voodoo is a religion which recognise spirit as divine entity. How does that relate to Eshu? And how do I disrespect Vodou religion?

- Spirit mean force or energy. Most people think spirit is one humanoid monster who talk, walk or something like dolly.

- atheist have no moral? Chai. Off topic....im not discussing about this.

wiegraf: @folly, exactly where did you answer the question?

You know why I did not honour you answer? My name not spell correctly..... If this is how you will continue, I bet I will continue ignoring you.

Secondly, I treated the concept of God on a separate thread. Here is the link https://www.nairaland.com/1457170/atheist.....what-concept-god-disbelief . So I dont know which concept you asking about.

If the term God from the pantheism view is what you ask for, the universe is your evidence.

I am evidence too....because im part of God as well as God myself.

nnofaith: @folly (sic)
you are just twisting stuff to suit your charade!

Ode

Do you read my description on God or you just hate the word God?

Pantheist call universe 'God', does that make universe not existing?

I call fela my god/idol. Is that wrong? Does that make fela creator of the world?

Go and educate yourself on the concept of God.

Or refute my argument

Why are atheist ignoring this thread?

Is mental slavery we accuse christians and muslims about not applying to us who see good thing in buddhism but trash our ancestral belief, culture and spirituality?

Sam Harris, a prominent proponent of New Atheism and practitioner of Buddhist meditation......

Foly Kaze, a prominent proponent of Atheism and practitioner of Orisa (Ifa philosophy).....

Logicboy, come and call me fakeatheist and sink the integrity of Sam Harris and other buddhist atheist. Come and bash me only if your GF is not an atheist and also a shinto practitioner.

Ya atheist, lets stop following the westerners like modernized slave.....if senses can be found in buddhism, senses can be found in African thought and spirituality too.

In fela voice....stop this kolo mentality

Logicboy03: God, couldnt you just teach man your divine laws once and for all?


Why all the religions?

According to judaism, you failed once with people and flooded the whole earth
According to christianity, you failed once with Jews and then went to send your son
According to Islam, you failed twice, first with Jews, then with Jesus, then sent Muhammad

Oga on top, dont you know something called "doing it right the first time?"

When a man start talking to himself. What comes to mind?

Nothing bad about that really. One man delusion is MADNESS, many people delusion is religion.

Logicboy03: God, who created you?


Oh, you created yourself?

Does that mean, you were nothing and became something?

someone should call me internet-police. Lol

Logicboy03: Not so good......having bad internet connection....had work overload....no time to debunk peeps on NL.....I'm on edge

I opened a thread for ya. It about atheism and buddhism.... Pls check it up anytime you good to.

Go climb nearest mountain for 3g na....abi you dont need to surf through some pages tonight?

barack_o_handso: Maybe cos there's deception written all over it. I didn't think you were actually gonna open a thread on the topic when you said you would.

Deception of what written where?

Logicboy03: Buddhism is a religion.

You are a fakeatheist

Ode...

It was a trap. You couldn't see that. Lol. How ya day?

joel lala: I would love this question to be addressed...@plaetton, macof, folykaze oya make una talk something because i would like to know your response to this

barack_o_handso: Same here. Wanna hear other opinions

Thanks for your question. Let me quickly make you guys understand that the term God mean different thing to different people. I opened a thread about this some days ago as it cause problem and makes it very hard for argument to run smoothly.....more like atheist arguing with pantheist on God. We all know atheist disbelief in God but pantheist believe in God....however, God to pantheist is universe. So will atheist says he doesn't believe in universe? I think you can see how problematic conflict the term 'God' cause in different conception. Read about Concept of God and atheism here.

I dont believe in God the creator of world, the ruler and maker of world, the humanic nature God (laugh, angry, walk, talk, live, die, sit, rest and depicted with human character), omnis and other religious attribute this being can have. It lie and product of mind.
Though...I agree with some people here that says God is the totality of force and energy in the universe. It mean you, I and other things in the nature are God. Also if by saying God, you could mean admiration, respect and thing thats due for honour.....like I will say, fela is my god/deity. I dont worship fela but love, admire, and honour his concept, philosophy, and style of life. I see fela as God but not as creator of the world or ruler of the world. Im not bowing down to his image or calling on people to worship him. I just admire his ways and that made him my God.

Eledumare = El' (body) + Odu (intelligence/conscious) + mare (infinity) which mean the body of infinite intelligence/consciousness. So Eledumare is totality of forces, energies and all that therein in the universe. No skydaddy attached to this. Eledumare is universe itself. I dont need to believe in Eledumare as a god.....it universe and we human are microcosm of the whole. I am God, you are God, we are God and everything is the universe is conscious so they are Gods. I dont need to believe I exist, I know that im existing. Within the body of God, all things, both abstract and concrete, are cells. Each and every animal, vegetable, mineral, thought, feeling, idea, emotion and concept has its own ashe (energy) and therefore contributes to the whole that is Eledumare.

Orisa = Ori (consciousness) + sa (selected) which mean selected consciousness among the infinite consciousness....ELEDUMARE. The theist usually think Orisa means deity so Ogun is one humanoid that suck blood. Nope....these are just form of consciousness.

Certain constellations of energies bear within their structure an assortment of related cells that together create a force of divinity called an Orisha, which can be best defined as a facet of God. Each of these constellations of energies, while made up of many different individual components, has its own, for lack of a better word, personality.

Therefore, God to me is a plural legion of higher intelligence that are not necessarily outside us but a part of the matrix of energy, the brightest amongst us assume esoteric mandate to join the legion of GOD.
In the begining was the word (audio-sound energy), and the word was God: Energy is God, God is energy.
Since God is Energy, it therefore means God can not be destroyed but converted from one form to another. Therefore Energy is God.
Since Energy can be converted from one form to another, it therefore means, that the totality of all that there is in the universe is called GOD.
God means all that there is, including you and I. So, do not look out there to God, you are a part of it. Little wonder the bible says, Ye are Gods and children of most high. Meaning you are the microcosm of the whole.

The mistake theist and some atheist made arose when attributing sex and human nature (laugh, angry, talking, thinking, walking, fighting, hatred, etc) to God. Some will say God is masculine and believe he is humanlike. This is work of mind in action.
Everything in nature is God. Stone, Animal, water, trees, magnetic force, energies....everything is God. My body is God in the sense of functionality of each of it. I see the reason some respect and honour head, some bosom, some private part and among yoruba traditionalist, they honour toes. Some people are my God and im God to others. The totality of the universe can be said to be the GOD.

rationalmind: What nonsense!!! This idea of respecting beliefs is one of the major reasons why muslims will do and undo at anything they feel hurts their sensitivity. They know people like you will come up to support them and say their belief wasn't respected. What is there to respect in a belief that calls for death of apostates? What is there to respect in a belief that calls for the murder of all unbelievers. You were beaten in Ekiti, and the lesson you learnt was to blame yourself for burning a piece of paper with utter nonsense written on it while justifying the actions of mentally deranged religious bigots. What a shame!!!

So because I learn not to disrespect other people's feelings and belief mean I should be ashame huh? No P. Dont be ashame when something like this happen to you in real world.....take your little pig to mosque.

aManFromMars: Folykaze: I agree with a part of what you said. But in this case, I suspect the lady's only crime was identifying as an atheist.

I dont know what really happened on before this video. If it all about identifying herself as an atheist.....it really sucks.

But do you think she insult Allah or Prophet of piss?

wiegraf: This changes nothing. They nearly killed you for burning a book. Wood. By my standards they were unequivocally WRONG. You prove my point, people who would do that are worthy of NO respect. Non at all.

One could fake respect because he fears a beheading, in fact one should. But do they really deserve said respect??

And foly, I'm really holding back here, but stop insinuating I'm not tolerant. Go through my posts and point out where I advocate discriminating against others simply because of their beliefs. Actually I do the reverse, and frequently.

Firstly, understand that Nigeria is a theocratic nation and not secular as painted. The North is the nation of Allah, South-east and south-south is under the umbrella of Yahweh while south-west is commonly Jehovah. Lol. We both need to understand that the ways American people will handle issue is different from how things are handle here. The police is corrupt and not ready to respond to ya....also the judiciary is just room for endless babble. This issue is more like seeing student protesting violently and blocking high ways which you pay tax to ply and you drive your way through them. What are you going to do if they destroy your car? Get down and fight? Even though you are jackie chan....do you think you can beat hundreds of angry people?

Common man, we need to be realistic here. Im not saying we shouldn't express ourselves but we can do it in such a way it wont hurt the opposite person feelings. I read through Logicboy's post sometime ago....there is someone he wrote about his experience in a bar and how a guy pull out knife cuz the guy think he was blasphemy bla bla bla. I think the best thing he should do is escape or risk been stabbed.

Anyway you might call this fear, I agree it is but putting ourselves in risk of something we know will surely bite us is really unacceptable. I often ask this question like if you working under someone who is radical MFM member and this boss suprisingly ask you to join him in prayer, will you ignore that? Anyway you might say yes but as for me, I will not because of my earns....in later time, I will gently show my disbelief and others.


I knew you were tolerant. Was just suprise how you keep stalking me around.....all the way, I turn whole thang about ya to joke.....I love playing like Eshu. Lol

wiegraf: Erm, kindly explain what is respectable. You see, these guys are just following their beliefs, hadiths, koran etc and apostacy. Now, do you expect me to have respect for those beliefs?

The memory of what happened to me in Ekiti is still fresh, I had an argument with a friend who claimed the quran is holy and nothing bad can happen to it. During the evening, I get a match box and held straight to this guy hostel. I took his quran and some little kerosene from his room and set the quran on fire. Mehn it burn but the mistake I did and will never do again is that I called the attention of others toward this quran burning test. I received serious beating from those that took it as crime. It was the help of my good friend and those heartful folks around that escaped me from the hell.

I learnt my lesson from there to respect other beliefs. Respect and patience brings tolerance and love. You cant because you are atheist then should go to mecca and tell them mohamed is a criminal and Allah doesn't exist. You cant go to vatican and pour urine on mary's statues. What ever happen to you from there should be blame on your very self.

There are religious folk who can reason with you and others take thing personal. Let your opinion out when asked for or necessary....it not that you go on public and rant that some God/gods dont exist and those believing it are dumb or ignorant. Like I said before, there are many way we can pass across our decision. Some of your friends can tell that 'you are mad boy' without taking it person but person from nowhere cant just tell you that.

The tongue is double edge sword they say.....it kills and protect. Learn to respect others.

striktlymi: No one has any right to cause another harm on the basis of belief or disbelief. What those folks did is unpardonable and frankly they deserve to be put to death.

The moral I take from that brutal video is that Atheists need to be protected by all. For starters there is a need to put a stop to the anti-Atheist posts we have in the religion section because it serves no purpose but help this growing hatred.

I dont think am arguing here. Just dropping my opinion.

Atheist doesn't have the right to insult people's belief. My parents are christians and that doesn't make me insult christ or Jehovah before them.

There are many ways of passing across your mind. There are many way you can argue your point without insulting or hurting others opinion. We need to consider time, location and person we are addressing.

Not that I really support the killing of that gal. I know such act is evil and brutal. Im just trying to tell atheist that we can bypass such shot on us only if we learn to handle others people belief with respect.

Oh my!!! This is wield.

Morality of this news: when take pride in your atheistic stance among religious psycho.

Some people dont know how to express themselves without hurting belief or others. It is like an atheist going to saudi to tell them mohamed is false and Allah doesn't exist. This easily spark brutal attack on the atheist.

We should learn how to rub mind with religious folks no matter what. Respect and patience covers alot. Thanks

wiegraf: ?

You demonstrate why one shouldn't address an eediot if he can manage it. Thank you

Go and check how plaetton answered the question in his post. Nitwit like ya read topic and attack me while ignoring the OP.

What is spirituality to you? Is it possible for you as an atheist to have a rich spiritual life?

If you cant answer pls get lost.

*abeg share with me some fanta drink....you see that star? Hope you enjoying the fela song? Do you love kissing that star* lol

Viewing this topic: aManFromMars, wiegraf

macof: sorry, I was not suppose to use the words "don't recognise". Cause they actually recognise spiritual forces(gods) but buddhists don't worship them.


If anyone can find atheistic reasoning in Buddhism, u can find just as much in Ifa studies.

Epic.

Just wondering why my atheist pal ignore this thread.

No retreating bro.

wiegraf: My good clown, where are you running off to? A very simple question I've asked you now, how many times? And, great eediot, quit your silly persecution nonsense. Have I ever demeaned yoruba beliefs through this? It's very simple, all I've stated is that you, and YOU in particular, are NOT an atheist.

So now, could you answer this; how would you gauge the evidence for/against gods?


Edit; ah, yes, and buddhism/ifa etc are religions, even if some may choose to subscribe to the philosophies and not the religions full out

lol....person won boil. Chai.

Let those you call bear that name give you answer. Also, you didn't answer questions in the OP. Such a way atheist divert what ever stand against them to strawmanning. Lol.

Do that and I deal with your question. Abeg ma dey jonze to Fela tone....stage of kissing the star. Lwkmd

wiegraf: Aaaaaaannnnndddd you didn't address the question, as usual, in any way...

Lol...you dont want to learn. Enjoy your close minded libration.

The OP was asking a question which you dont address, how I can I honour you with answer too?

Ma dey jonz with star. Preparing to gaze for tonight. I love those balls in the sky.....

wiegraf: Maybe you can help the baba lawo op? Can you please explain how he gauges the evidence for/against gods?

plaetton.....you see eh? Lwkmd

Here comes the 'bark at atheist', 'nairaland atheist' and 'professional atheist' as tagged by Einstein.

Erm....i love jonzing with babalawo..it make me reconnect with my history. Those taught at school are scam records of invaders.

Lol

I remember this comedy about God and the stammering Moses. Quit funny thang

Deep Sight: See the hand.

Wonder at the mind. Your mind. Then see the hand.

Hey man. Glad to see you here again.

plaetton: And somehow, the holy spirit never ever reveals the permanent cures for deadly diseases like leprosy, not even to Jesus.
lol

Hey guys, let me add juice here.

Dont you think intuition reacts like voice? I agree it just function of multi billion cell connected together. Lol

plaetton: I know where you are coming from. But do not blame Lb to much cos I know where he is coming from too.
You, unlike Buddhism, there is a dearth of information on African traditional religions and philosophies, especially for those them raised in cities.
Our leaders and educators have failed woefully in assembling together a coherent body of knowledge about the philosophical underpinnings of African culture and religions.

So, its quite easy to neglect our cultural and religious past to identify with and embrace Buddhism simply because there is large body of written material on Buddhism.

Our government should set up and fund a special commission for cultural and historical revival made up of eminent scholars from all over the country who have not been tainted with poisonous stench of the Abrahamic religions.

Thanks for your post.

I was also like LB, bashing my culture and spirituality until my African American friend reveal it philosophy to me. It was really alarming that those Yoruba Gods we were taught in school are just mind-created fictions. Anyway, im not blaming Logicboy for anything. He never at once bark at me even though we dont agree on things.

I dont like throwing blame but I agree with you that our government, parents and ourselves caused this problem which makes African spirituality corrupted to the level it is today. I still believe this Spirituality (especially that of Yoruba) have survived generations without writing document and it has been the same till date. Thanks to some putting this down into books which we can read today. The revolution will come only if we contribute to it revival and not stamping on it.


Pls check out this thread https://www.nairaland.com/1464785/atheist-why-embracing-buddhism-not#18573207 . Still wondering why most atheist are ignoring it.

macof: Buddhism doesn't recognize God or any spiritual being, It all about trying to be vindicated from the suffering of this world.

Buddha taught about striving to live a moral life by being mindful of ur actions and thoughts to achieve wisdom and understanding.

Buddhists strive to attain true happiness as the world is Hell itself

Every Buddhist strives to be like The buddha who gained enlightenment after connecting with his inner consciousness through meditations and other mediums.

Buddist do not care about material things, most buddhist are what u would call poor, because they find no use for theses things because it doesnt guarantee happiness and peace of mind

Buddhist are seekers of Knowledge and peace, trying to make the world a better place. that is why u can never hear of forced or compelled conversion, wars or discrimination in areas where Buddhism prevails. (afterall wisdom is not for everybody)

Buddhism is not science, but it deals with the main purpose of science which is knowledge, theories, and above all making the world a better place.

Buddhist believe in the law of karma(not as a spiritual concept but natural law of actions with consequences)

Its no wonder Atheist are fans of Buddhism, it supports their course

Ifa recognize forces that drives nature

Ifa also teaches the importance of good character

Ifa preaches that the most important thing to us is our consciousnesses and subconsciousness

Ifa teaches that connecting with ur subconscious makes life easy and the road to achieving ur destiny is smooth

Ifa to a large degree is science because it is all about gaining knowledge of everything knowledgeable

Ifa tells the truth using symbolism, it is left to u to interpret and understand its use of symbolism

Ifa however isnt into any known/recognised scientific method of discovering knowledge. Ifa is on its own league

Let me get some things correct here. God or No God is buddhism doesn't make it atheistic. There are Gods in buddhism like in Ifa. Traditionally yes
but according to the Buddha, believe-in is not the right word to use. Buddhism recognizes there are different living beings (life forms) and some of them are gods, divines, deities, etc. In the Buddhist language, they are called differently as they are also many kinds and have different places of their own. These deities in my opinion are best understood metaphorically, basically everything else the Buddha taught was taught using metaphors.
Yama the God of Death, Mara the tempter deity....Deva in sanskrit means a god/demigod (Like an angel or something). Brahmā, Asura, Śakra, Yaksha, Sariputta, Tara, Kwan Yin and many other Gods are found in Buddhism. Asura means Demons, naraka (hell) and nirvana (heaven).

Moreover in Ifa there are Gods but are metaphoric. In yoruba spirituality, the term believe is not really essential. They are there like the sun which you dont need believe in.

- Eledumare means infinite consciousnes, totality of energies and forces that therein in the universe. It doesn't have problem with you or concerned with you. You are microcosm of the whole and God of yourself. Only those who understand their 'me' and 'me-ness' grap this.

Ogun in the scientific worldview is a chemical element called Iron. Relating it oriki and scientific knowledge about it shows this is what it is. Monsters not attached.

Sango is electric energy. The metaphoric poem about it relates to it energetic nature and humanic nature. The human Sango was the vessel for energetic electric force which mastered and manifested the power of electric and forming lightening in his days. A typical lightning bolt contains 1 billion volts and contains between 10,000 to 200,000 amperes of current. Relating science to it metaphor shows it energy and not monsters.

Eshu is intuition. No voodoo included.

Orisa is selected consciousness among the infinite body of consciousness.

Orisha practise is not about worshipping God/Gods but awareness and recognizing those energies (Gods). This pave way to this saying 'ori eni la ba bo, aba fi orisa sile' meaning we are entitled to admire our consciousness and should have ignore orisa.

This and many Gods in Yoruba are not walking, talking and angry monsters. This apply to Devas in Buddhism. Sango is not asking anybody to worship it nor Devas needs your worship. I agree buddhism and Ifa went a step further where it meet religion....thats where temple, shrine, rituals and praying comes in. All the way, both spiritual path are same.

If western atheist can breaks into the metaphoric nature of Devas, whats wrong about African atheist to breaks into metaphoric nature of Orisha? Why cant I hijack Orisa practises from those who are ignorant about it that demonize it or turn it to Anthropomorphical God?

Let me ask you, if buddhism is atheistic in it concept, what happen to Ifa with it concept?

^^^^ your post warrant 1001 likes.

Im really impressed with objectivity in your post. You have shown the philosophical and spiritual relationship between Ifa and Buddhism.

However, both of this spiritual path have religion sides. Though I agree we can separate religion from it and clinch to philosophical surface.

The problem im having with atheist on this forum is that they are bend to lighting the candle in another man's room but are sleeping in thick dark room. There is nothing wrong is embracing other world opinion and views but it greatest stupidity to hate self.

If atheist on this forum can tag buddhist and buddhist nation as atheistic, why cant they agree with me on Ifa?

What is wrong in Igbo who is atheist embracing 'chi' and yoruba who is an atheist embrace Ifa?

Why cant we be ourselves and promote what belong to us? Why following foreign things only? Isn't this modern slavery and colonization?

If only atheist can prove me wrong concerning philosophical aspect of Ifa, they should attached to buddhism and see how illogical it is to trash, stamped and curse what is ancestry to you.

@ OP

Who made that book and the pen used writing name down?

Is God not omniscient anymore? What does he need book for? Maybe he lost some memory or possiblely forget past incidence.

Dont you think some angels can sneak in eraser?

Heaven ko, haven ni. Let me enjoy eternity with my ancestors. Let God hold his heaven. Thanks

My Brain is my shepherd; I shall not want any other shepherd.

It makes me know that no man is my master; it leads me to logical conclusions faster.

It makes me whole; it keeps me on the path of consciousness & corrects my mistakes.

Whenever self called holy men threaten me with their hell and untimely death I fear not their evil, because my Brain is with me; truth and reason they comfort me.

It is truth & reason that show me how to defeat my enemies, which are, ignorance, superstitions, and myths: In Brain I Trust.

Surely, goodness and love shall be with me all the days of my life; because I know that an honest, kind and loving human has nothing to fear in this life or any other life to come. So I am free to think for myself in this universe forever……

ramen

joel lala: Wait o..who mentioned demons here? I asked a simple question that deserves a simple answer..if you want to say something or make a point do so without beating about the bush or adding what was not said by me..also i choose the way i ask questions..ifeness mentioned spirit entering into the physical body so it is wrong for you to tell me how to address the question.

You seem not to read through the post or maybe you omit how it address your question.

I stated 'demon or monster' because thats what most people think spirit is. Your question clearly indicate that thats where you driving at. Anyway, im sorry if it shred your shot.

Spirit = life force.

Physical body is just a dead carcass made of bones and flesh until life force function on it.

Physical world is just illusion within the brain. The only thing that exist is your experience.

Hope I answer you now?

macof: Unfortunately I have never seen a babalawo divining, I have actually been looking forward to that but I've been in Abuja ever since I fully went back to my ancestry and I doubt if there are active babalawos here.

I have seen only Ogun and Osun ritual ceremonies.

Ifa is not something we advertise like chin-chin.

I believe some Yoruba men in Abuja have it for their personal use. It not poster and not a thang we force down people throat.

Experience is the best teacher. Words and book cant explain all. Most of, I appreciate your awakeness and your patriotic motive.

Ori e a gbe e o.
Ase