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Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 6:49am On Aug 22, 2020*

MuttleyLaff:
For where. The guy is not just only a vocal ignorant, but on top, is acting IGNORANT just for "... front page on Sundays ..." views!

Ignorance and arrogance are a lethal combination, so I am not surprised at FOLYKAZE et al, pontificating about the Tower of Babel and be so absorbed with it but unfortunately clearly and totally oblivious to the biblical fact, that the tower per se, circa Genesis 11:2-9 was never built

You and your high horse, hmm.

So, smh, when are you going to learn how to get down and/or jump off this high horse you've climbed yourself on, hmm? Awodi (i.e. black kite) that thinks, its an eagle and so wants badly, be identified as eagle

You, of course, ọrẹ mi, are my buddy, but I'll tell you this for free, you are also soot, that thinks its snowflake, smh. The readership can see right through you, that, you are nondescript soot, and so, a dangerous mixture of several carcinogenic chemicals

Mr muttley, shey I offend you before ni? You are taking this personal.

Remember the question was first directed at jamesid29. I only interjected to save you, as asking kindergarten question can be embarrassing sometimes. I do not want to drill you.... Not today, not tomorrow. Please keep calm, take a deeo breathe. This is just a discussion, Seun no dey pay us for posting, let's have fun ok?

If you had read through Genesis 11:2-9, you would see Genesis 11:5

And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the children of men built.

New King James Version
But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

It states, they Lord came down to see the city and Tower which the son of men had built... They don build am, physical structure, standing gidigba in Mesopotamia for many thousands years.

Have I served you sir? Forgive if I offend you with my foot dragging

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 6:59pm On Aug 21, 2020

petra1:
Why not quote it out.

MuttleyLaff is my pal, not my student. If he want answers to a question, I will guide him into seeing the answer himself, rather than held him reciting A for Apple, B for Ball. Let him read Genesis 11:2-9, he will find his needed answers there.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 11:36am On Aug 21, 2020*

jamesid29:
I think my previous answers covers this part.
Basically all major cities in mesopotamia had temple complexes that incorporated ziggurats alongside it atleast as far back as the 3rd millennium BC. This is attested well in many ancient literatures

There's alot we can talk about the theological statement being made especially when you read the parallel accounts in Babylon literature, but to not make my post overtly long(as its too long at this point sef), I'll just try and make a very condensed version of what was going on and just touch 1 or 2 points.
1) The name of the ziggurat is Etemenanki meaning :House, foundation platform of the heaven & the underworld (earth for our understanding)
2) The name of the temple is Esagila meaning: House whose top is lofty
3) Babylon comes from the Akkadian word babili meaning: gate of the god(it's unclear whether this etymology reflect the original meaning of the name or a secondary interpretation).
The statement being made here is that the city is considered as the center of the cosmos (The place where heaven and earth meets; God's space and man's space intersect).... .To understand how this works is to understand that a ziggurat was not built for men to go up to heaven but for God to come down to earth and to reside in their midst in the temple. In the case of Babel, they were doing this not to honour God but to make a name for themselves(it's a play on the meaning of Shem). They wanted to create a symbiotic relationship with God on their own terms(this already shows they had a flawed concept about God)... This is a design pattern in the Bible called a bookend, in this case Genesis 3 and Genesis 11(paradise lost and how men are trying to regain paradise on their own terms out of pride).

Please understand that Esagali is a distinct structure, serving the purpose of religious rituals, deity veneration and occultic practises of Marduk. It is sited at the south of Etemenanki, separated at some distance. Another Ziggurat is Borsippa, previously thought is the tower of babel, is a religious edifice in honour of the local god Nabu, son of Marduk. However, there is no information from Babylonia sources, Greek sources, archaeological resources, and Bible attributing or dedicating Etemenanki as the religious centre of worship of any known deity.

You mentioned many times, heaven (sky or astro), cosmos and yet did not see the astronomical imprints in the Tower. Did you not see the astrological essence too?

Here are some materials that will help you...

https://nekaal.org/observer/ar/ObserverArticle234.pdf

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1951IrAJ....1..197F

https://www.livius.org/articles/person/kidinnu-the-chaldaeans-and-babylonian-astronomy/

jamesid29:
God does come down with his entourage, then not only does he scatter them since they refuse to do that on their own but also disinherits the nations (Deut 32:8 ) since they were bent on renegading against Him. He then calls a man out of the same mesopotamia in the very next story and promises to make his name great and through his seed bless all the nations on the earth.
From this man comes the nation of Israel (who were meant to be a priest to the nations; God never left the nations without a witness)... From them comes the first time God dwells with people since Gen 3(the tarbancle and later the temple), which was always the plan. Later comes Jesus Christ, through whose sacrifice launches the new temple and grafting of all the nations back into the fold. That's the story in a nutshell...
There's a lot more to be said but there are already some really good answers here. I believe O\femmanu1 has some good answers that can help fill in some of the gaps.
There's still some debate on whether the biblical account is a polemic against Babylonian conception of the world or whether it's aimed at humanity in general. In either case though, the major theological messaging doesn't change much.

Please don't make it more complex than it is now. The only known temple dedicated for the worship of Marduk is Esagali. Deut 32 is another head aching subject when compared with Urgarit texts.

However, information from Babylonia sources, Greek sources, Hebrew sources, and archaeological evidences buttresses that Bible is a polemic against Babylon.

jamesid29:
A lot of ancient structures were not simple but were advanced architectural design( from Egypt to Rome to China etc). That doesn't change what their purpose was for.

Esagali tablet is a neo-Babylonian mathematical text, spelling out advance mathematics and architectural designs, which helped Nebuchadrezzar II reconstructed Etemenanki.

https://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/esagila-tablet

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 11:36am On Aug 21, 2020*

jamesid29:
Well, that's a bit incorrect boss. Outside of the Bible and the history of Isreal, the civilizations that developed in ancient mesopotamia are pretty much well attested for today. Compared to other civilizations that wrote on parchment that have either been destroyed or lost, the mesopotamian region wrote on clay tablets that even survived destruction of entire cities. Today we have thousands of tablets(the library in the British museum alone has about 30,000 tablets) dating back to the 3rd millennium BC, so there's really not much question about the significance of the etemenanki(atleast not in academia).We not only have enough textual sources for the ziggurat itself but also for the accompanying temple Esagila .

Oh well, you are opening more doors into the discourse, but the doorways lead to the room where I desire to cool off.

The tablets and cylinder records found from the excavation of Babylon didn't puncture on the spiritual importance of Etemenanki. While the clay tablets found at the foundation base of the Tower tell us about measurements, and functions of each courtrooms, there is nothing spectacular in it attributing the tower as a worship centre of Marduk. The absence of evidence, signifying that Marduk is worshipped in Etemenanki stamped down all spiritual attributions to the tower.

The temple of Marduk in Babylon was called Esagila, "the temple that raises its head." It was built from the foundation to basement by Esarhaddon, king of the Neo-Assyrian Empire. And the construction was fully completed by Nebuchadnezzar II. The temple comprises of a large court, containing a smaller court, and finally the central shrine, consisting of an anteroom and the inner sanctum which contained the statues of Marduk and his consort Sarpanit. Esagila is standalone structure, located at the south of Etemenanki. All rituals, rites, and occultic qpractises for Marduk happen only in Esagila, putting away any spiritual significance of Etemenanki.

Until there are evidences that suggest Etemenanki have any spiritual imports, I will not delve into that aspect.

jamesid29:
I believe this is where the misunderstandings steam from. Having this mindset about the Bible and even other ancient writings would cause a couple of problems
1) Almost everything in the ancient world has spiritual significance. The idea of separating the world into spiritual and physical, supernatural and natural, is a modern concept.. ancient people didn't see the world in those terms. Removing that component from the text automatically means removing an important piece away from it and most likely reading something foreign into it.
2) Though the Bible contains many different types of literature (history, poetry, biographies, apocalyptic etc), at its very core, the Bible is a theological book. Every statement,every story, even the genealogies have a specific messaging that is being transmitted. Striping that out is to misunderstand what the text is trying to communicate.
3) All literature is written against the backdrop of the culture that it's been written in. This is very important, because to read any text with a different cultural context is to read something into it that was not intended by the author. To illustrate this:Let's say I write something to you and say "Mehn bro, that car dey fly". You automatically get what I mean cos we both have the same cultural backdrop, but someone living 2000 yrs from now can easily misunderstand that statement to mean we were talking about flying cars. This is just a very mundane illustration but i hope it helps get my point across. The context of the Bible is not the 21st century,it's not the Catholic church or the Reformation, the context of the Bible is the cultural backdrop of the biblical authors. Anything outside of that is to read something foreign into the text or to miss the point the text is trying to make.

There's alot more we can talk about how we approach the Bible and other ancient texts in general but I'm trying to limit what I write... what I can assure is that no one in the ancient world would look at a ziggurat and think of space exploration or astronomy. A ziggurat in the ancient world was part of a temple complex and was sacred space

Brilliant inputs, though I largely do not agree with it.

1. A phenomenon is like a coin, having two sides which is aptly defined on either sides, and can loose it substance from poor background. I once read a piece from Prof. Ze'ev Herzog, he is an Israeli archeologist, professor of archaeology at the Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel Aviv University. Base on the summary of his work published in the Haaretz newspaper, he presented a polarity framework putting spiritual importance and archaeological understanding of the Exodus at two opposing sides. Factoring spiritual importance of the exodus present the account as truth, meanwhile archaeology evidences showcase that the exodus is fiction. There might be spiritual significance to the Etemenanki project, but there is no evidence justifying spiritual essence of the building.

2. The OP does not completely eliminate the spiritual virtue of the Tower, according to the Bible. However, the Bible didn't specifically mention that the tower is worship centre for tutelage deity Marduk. It didn't specifically mention the any spiritual essence or purposes of the the tower. I, rather stated that I tilted toward architecture revolution and space exploration, as pointed out by Diodorus Siculus in his work, Book II, 7-10, it is recorded that "The temple of Bel erected in the center of the city ... was extraordinarily high ... and the Chaldeans did their astronomical work there."
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/2A*.html

3. I had wished there is any evidence from the Bible, an account from the Hebrew texts, mentioning spiritual essence of the Tower. There is none also from the clay tablets of the Mesopotamians. The popular Esagila tablet only pointed to the spiritual significance of the Esagila temple, serving as the ritual centre for cult practices.

jamesid29:
Ok so let me try and put the statement into perspective. A temple is the abode of the deity but a shrine is where cultic rituals are performed (reenactment of sacred marriages etc). A temple might have a shrine in it but not necessarily(most ground temples have shrines). What is not being disputed is whether a ziggurat is part of a temple complex (that part is well attested for by many sources), what is being disputed is whether cultic rituals were performed at the top of the ziggurat or inside it. On one hand Herodotus is considered the father of modern history and his words carry weight but on the other hand,there's no surviving ziggurat at its full height to examine if there are any relics from rituals left behind.
You can read the whole entry of the quote you posted from Harriet Crawford's book to understand whats actually being debated "Sumer and Sumerians pp 85-88". Here's a link to where you can borrow the book for free https://archive.org/details/sumersumerian00/
Or you can also read the entire paragraph you cropped the link out from... it gives the entire context of what Harriet was saying.

I had wish to read the referenced book, the link is broken, it is leads nowhere.

Esagila is the known temple of Marduk... Borsippa, another Ziggurat thought to be the the tower of babel, is a religious edifice in honour of the local god Nabu, the son of Marduk. Please tell us sir, what deity Etemenanki is dedicated to.

jamesid29:
Let me just add one more thing, Wikipedia is a good place to start a research on a topic or just get general information.... but caveat lector.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_reliable_source

I know and agree largely with you on this. However, information sourced from wiki has not been debunked yet and very tenable for the moment

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:03am On Aug 21, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
When are you going to start not taking things personally, hmm?. Only HSP (i.e. highly sensitive person) behave this way. It is not a disorder, but it is majorly a symptom display of superficiality.

Have you read the four few easy, simple, direct and straightforward questions, I'll like jamesid29 responding to, and respond to, by giving the answers back, in the same numbered format, order and style they are asked?

Do you know that, its a hardest thing of all, to find a ~~Tower of Babel~~ black cat, in a dark room, especially if there is no ~~Tower of Babel~~ cat, in the first place, to be found?

You're a fantasist with delusions of grandeur, a mere ideologue. I am waiting for you and jamesid29 to "fact check" me, which I know youse never will, because the absolute truth is "inconvenient" for youse to take in and your weak stomachs to comfortably retain

Don't make it personal, you always go for the neck, I don't know why this. Please read through Genesis 11:2-9 and you will find your answer therein. Please comply with my instructions.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 6:20am On Aug 21, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
TKO cognitive decline!
Nothing other than a precious time stealer, precious time waster and precious time killer, all rolled into one. Yinmu. Mtcheew. KMT

You have a lot to learn from jamesid29. You and Maximus69 have killed the vibes on this section honestly. See the topics making it to front page on Sundays, scanty and lacks deep contents. I believe you can up your game though.....

That aside, have you read the passage I asked you to read....? So we can progress

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 10:16pm On Aug 20, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
When are you going to throw your hat into the ring, roll up your sleeves, and do justice by responding to the above humble appeal?

Ok

Take you time tonight, read each words of Genesis 11 closely, and try to understand. Between the verses, you will find answer to your question. Please do that and get back sir

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:56pm On Aug 20, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
I like how we have someone on here, who thinks he is a lot more smarter, wiser, clever, more knowledgeable, more informed than God is. I like how we have someone on here, who thinks he can teach God how to suck eggs. I like how we have someone on here, who believes all that God has done could be improved upon. I like how we have someone on here, who thinks God could have done better work at creation et cetera and so takes pleasure in reviling and slagging God off. Smh

Gen 11 exooses the inefficiency of God, his shortcomings, and lack of foresights, for thwarting a project which would expand his ministrations many years after.

Can't just wrap my head around it, that Muttley don't know Etemenanki Ziggurat is the Tower of Babel. It sickening, even more, that Muttley thinks the East direction implies ungodliness. To add salt to injury, muttley thinks human language was confounded at Babel, but concluded Shem and Japheth descents who were not in Babel or partook in the building of Tower, had their tongue magically confounded. He however lost along the line, when, where and how the descent of Shem and Japheth got their language confused since they weren't in Babel or partook in the building of the Tower.

Muttley baba! I hail

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:45pm On Aug 20, 2020*

Csonice1:
Who gives life?
if you are knowlegeable, you will keep quiet here.

Mr, yes I assume you are an adult male human, can you please stop answering questions with another question? It makes you appear directionless like an headless chicken.

I asked, why should God be given glory for what he didn't do by himself? It's like giving the glory for inventing airplane to God, when in fact, it is the Wright brothers who designed and innovated airplanes.... Please address the question..

As for what you asked, life is not giving, it is procreate through sexual reproductions or cellular replication. Chikena.

Now address the question; why should God be given glory for what he didn't do by himself? It's like giving the glory for inventing airplane to God, when in fact, it is the Wright brothers who designed and innovated airplane.

Csonice1:
I don't want to sound arrogant; I could have said that you are daft.
For God's plan for humanity, start from Genesis Chapter 1, that's if you will understand.

I am not offended. I am in the game way too long, and understand that when religious folks are cornered like you are, they either hide their head like ostrich or resort to argumentum ad hominem. We don see plenty.

It is God's plan, according to Genesis 1, that man should multiply and dominion world over.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Multiplication and domination can only be achieved through integration and migration. These are characterised in Genesis 10. They integrated, procreate, dominate and spread out into different countries and nations. It is important to note that, part of their domination of the sky is in the city of babel and tower.

Most importantly, multiplication and domination is not forfeited in dwelling municipality and metropolis. I bet, you are living today in the city, instead of dwelling in the villa where you descended from.

Genesis 1 does not tell us if city dwelling is wrong, as city dwelling contributes to multiplication and domination of human.

So tell sir, these people wanted to become city dwellers but God wanted them to wander around like animals in the bush. Is it God idea that human should live in isolation?

Csonice1:
Read Genesis5, it is a very good summary of a few chapters. a kind of genealogy. Genesis10 is more or less the same.
I'm amazed at ur level of understanding.
Truly.

There is no correlations. While both Gen 5 and Gen 10 contain genealogy, the former entails generations from Adam to sons of Noah, while the later details the table of nations descending from the sons of Noah.

In Gen 5, the generation were single persons, Gen 10 deals with nations and countries/race. The nations in Gen 10 already in different clan under different languages (notice; plural).

Genesis 10 indeed reveal that there are nations, descending from the sons of Noah, speaking different languages. If human lived in different nations, then they are not in anyway isolated. As a matter of fact, they easily multiply and dominate their environment through grouping as they did in Babel. Dispersion, as against city dwelling, isolation which regress multiplication and domination.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 12:25pm On Aug 20, 2020

jamesid29:
Yeah, you are right about it being a ziggurat and also that it's most likely the ziggurat named Etemenanki boss(I don't think there are many people in academia that would disagree with you on this).
I think where the misconception steams from is that you misunderstand the cultural significance of a ziggurat and what it is built for. I believe if you take a dive into what it is and it's significance in ancient mesopotamia, it would change your reading of Genesis 11.

I honestly do not want to delve into the cultural or spiritual significance of the Etemenanki, as there is no concensus and evidences to strengthen the view. This is why I tilted away from spiritual and cultural significance, and rather focuses more on space exploration and architectural revolution. You are the only person who see my taillight.

Check this out from Wikipedia;
Etemenanki has been suggested as a possible inspiration to the biblical story of the Tower of Babel.
According to archaeologist Harriet Crawford, "It is usually assumed that the ziggurats supported a shrine, though the only evidence for this comes from Herodotus , and physical evidence is non-existent.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat

There is no evidence to show the Ziggurat serve as a shrine to Marduk. However, there are enough evidence that the designs are not simple base but has imprints of advance mathematics and complex architecture designs which aid sky observations and city security.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:28am On Aug 20, 2020

petra1:
The less is included on the greater. When languages were confounded. People regrouped according to tongues and separated and God splited the earth .

I don't think its proper to use the language "BETTER TRANSLATION "

Secondly they trsnslated according to their understanding. The word used "eres" in Hebrew means esrth ground. Not language

Eber was a prophet he already knew what was coming. And named his son Peleg- which means division or earthquake or division by earth quake. The esrth was broken . This triggered Continental drift

https://www.studylight.org/commentary/genesis/10-25.html

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:08am On Aug 20, 2020

jamesid29:
Cc FOLY... So following the conversation for a while , I must say, it's a bit refreshing to see a critic of the scriptures that actually takes their time to read what the text actually says rather than what they remember from Sunday school.

So out of curiosity, since you already know what was been built at Babel was a ziggurat

Why do you still hold that God's action of scattering the people was because of their mere unity in building a tower?

That is largely, what is stated in the bible. It could be something else, but I won't make claims outside what is in the bible.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:06am On Aug 20, 2020

Csonice1:
hurray!

but you got a poor grade at the end.

God knows possibilities from the beginning. for the sake of the choice given to man; they can choose any path. God knows where each path will lead to, even though it may seem right unto a man, the end may be destruction vice versa.

The project wasn't the problem, the unity wasn't the problem; the motive behind it was.
they wanted to make a name for themselves and remain in a single place(but God's word must be fulfilled); they were not doing it to Glorify God but to make a boast of strength in themselves: God forbids that. God also knew what he had put in a man, and it was best to give them different languages.

Oh! I like that you don't give it unnecessary twist. The project wasn't the problem, but even when it will be beneficial to God's ministrations, he never foresaw that and thwarted that brilliant project. We have today numerous modern architecture designs that followed the style of Ziggurat, these buildings are found across the world. The Ziggurat was designed as a doorstep into heavens, that is why it is called Etemenanki, the name for the structure, is Sumerian and means "temple of the foundation of heaven and earth". Etemenanki gives rises to space exploration and architectural revolutions we have today.

There are two problems in your submissions.

Firstly, why should God be given glory for what he didn't do by himself? It's like giving the glory for inventing airplane to God, when in fact, it is the Wright brothers who designed and innovated airplanes.

Secondly, I read through Genesis 9 to 10 and 11. What is wrong with civilizations? These people wanted to become city dwellers but God wanted them to wander around like animals in the bush. Is it God idea that human should live in isolation?

Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Genesis 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

If the incidents in Gen 10 predate Gen 11, these people are not isolated. They are already doing well in different countries, nations and cities. They also speak different languages.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 12:02pm On Aug 19, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41AiRdYKeFL._SX300_.jpg

Hahahaha

I have most time wondered, how old is this muttley guy that be wants mudslinging all his life?

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 10:20am On Aug 19, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
Pftt. Smh.
At the rate you're going, you'll soon by taking your bicycle and become Billy-no-mates, having no one to play with

Quit this childishness. I am not available for the banter tradings.

MuttleyLaff:
Mtcheew. Shey ọrọ wa leleyi ni? KMT
If you have no proof to present of me saying, that the language of the whole earth was not confounded or that it didn't include the three sons of Noah, then please, shut the foxtrot uniform charlie kilo up jor ojaare

You have long lost touch with the discussion on this thread. You were here telling us Ham descendants conspired with Nimrod to build a tower. Descendants of Shem and Japheth were excluded in your own thinking. However, you turned around and said these people who were not involved got equal and effective reaction of an action they are not partying in. How is it possible? It is basically illogical. I am giving you for an umpteenth time an opportunity to explain yourself, tell us when and how descent of Shem and Japheth got their language confounded if they weren't part of the construction of the tower.

MuttleyLaff:
Smh. Ogbeni, mister man the tower was not physically built, it was a proposal that didnt get its foot off the ground. When would you start exactly reading what you see in the Bible, just they its printed, huh?

Indeed you have lost touch with reality.

Genesis 11:5-6
5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.
6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them

In the OP, I said they were progressing with actualisation of the project. The verses above showed they already made a progress.

And the progress gave birth to what we know today as Ziggurat. Ziggurat is a physical structure sir. And the Bible verse above shows they had physically and progressively built a structure in Babel.

MuttleyLaff:
[size=12pt]So? Your point then is what?
Does rain fall on, both the good and bad?
Does the sun shine on both the good and the bad?

Rain and sunshine, unless in rare conditions like in the days of Noah and Joshua, are natural/neutral occurrence by God, rather than been punitive measure caused by God for the action and inaction of men.

MuttleyLaff:
What makes you think it was punishment for Messers S, J and their descendants, hmm?

Confounding of human language only happened in Babel, as recorded in the bible. You have pointed out that descent of Shem and Japheth were not in Babel or took part in the tower building, but somehow, magically severally punished for an action they were not involved.

Genesis 11:8-9
8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.
9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

From Babel, God scattered the whole human populace over all the earth. While rather you posit, contrary to what the Bible said, that descent of Shem and Japheth were not party in the babel construction, did not gather but spread out on their own, and magically lost their original tongue.

Verse 9 pointed out at Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world. The whole world populace were involved at the babel construction, and they equally got punished for their action.

MuttleyLaff:
Oh yes he does. He corroborates my submission that the descendant of Ham led by Nimrod, he rebel moved east, symbolically meaning they move away, in defiance, from the influence, protection and covering of God

Oga shatap abeg.

You have agreed there is no evidence Nimrod built the tower in the bible, and that claim are rooted only in Christian tradition.

MuttleyLaff:
As you like it. If you dont agree, then watch to see, if I care

It is what it is Muttley.

Mathew claim the people journeyed from Assyria without any evidence in the bible.

And the migration pattern is geographical, not having any spiritual undertone

MuttleyLaff:
Share ko. Chair ni
I am not going to waste the share on undeserving you, bar than sign post you to Genesis chapter 10 (i.e. the first half) Good luck on the road that leads to satori

Hahahahaha

I have read Genesis 10 over and over. All I found is heap of cowdung available for a pack on your doorstep.

Firstly, Genesis 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

If the incident in Genesis 10 predate Genesis 11, descents of Ham had multiplied in their thousands, spoke different language, spread over different countries and nations.

I would want Petra1 to understand Gen 10:25 doesn't imply continental shift. Gen 10:25 has been explained in Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. Tongues before babel.

A better translation holds that peleg is racial divide.

MSG
Arphaxad had Shelah and Shelah had Eber. Eber had two sons, Peleg (so named because in his days the human race divided) and Joktan.

TLB
Two sons were born to Eber: Peleg (meaning “Division,” for during his lifetime the people of the world were separated and dispersed), and Joktan (Peleg’s brother).

GNT
Eber had two sons: one was named Peleg, because during his time the people of the world were divided; and the other was named Joktan.

AMP
Two sons were born to Eber; the name of one was Peleg (division), for [the inhabitants of] the earth were divided in his days; and his brother’s name was Joktan.

MuttleyLaff:
You really have turned deplorable worse and disgracefully rotten sha and would use whatever tactic, so just to have one over.

Seem you have conveniently chosen to forget that it was you living in a glass house that was throwing stone, nitpicking on my fat finger typo(s) and omission(s), spotting errors, behaving as if, you yourself don't fart. Now when I, in return, ent on to, pick up and show all your grammatical errors, misspellings, your not able to be understood sentence constructions, you're now resorted to using this insincere sentimental claptrap

I am not ready for mudslinging Muttley. And already told you what I thought you meant which you have already corrected... God is in the east.. And satan is in the west. Hahahaha

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:39pm On Aug 18, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
is You think you're being comical, but you've only with the irrational comment and lol, betrayed your ignorance.

Fyi, have this freely given education on me. Green L plates, indicates lack of experience, but yeah, as for you, a red L plate, indicating you're a learner and danger to others, suits you, fine. You actually should be sanctioned from typing the rubbish you heaped on this thread

Oh common! It is my label, my game.

MuttleyLaff:
Why not bring proof of me saying, that the language of the whole earth was not confounded or that it didn't include the three sons of Noah nah?

Lagbaja has said it. A meat is reported missing in the pot, and lamori said the meat is not salty, commonsense should tell that lamori is the thief who stole the meat... Hahahaha

Some people built a tower. And they got punished for their action.

You claim Mr S and Mr J were not involved in the project, but shared from the punishment.

MuttleyLaff:
Since you love Bible scholars, why not try Matthew Poole's Commentary. It'll surprise you that it agrees nicely with the brief given me, that it was Nimrod and the descendants of Ham, led by Nimrod who were moving away from God (i.e. defiantly journeying eastward, away from God's presence and influence) When you move from the east, towards the east, like Nimrod & Co did, then, you are moving away, from the presence and influence of God.

Read Matthew Poole's Commentaries on Genesis 11:1 and Genesis 11:2 by clicking on this weblink below:
Matthew Poole's Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/poole/genesis/11.htm

Matthew Poole is not conforming with your submissions at all.

1. He claimed Nimrod migrated from Assyria to Shinar. There is no evidence to this claim in the bible.

2. His migration pattern is from one geographical location to another point. It has no spiritual undertone as you suggested.

MuttleyLaff:
The correlation is the aspect of "east".

Eliphaz is Job's contemporary, with Job being the greatest man among all the people of the East. I introduced the Eliphaz narration talking about the Noahide flood, that preceded the Tower of Babel infamous incident because of bringing you into knowing the implication, meaning and significance of "east" in the Bible?

I could share more into "east" but it'll be info overload, and besides that, will be out of scope

Please share

MuttleyLaff:
Yinmu.

Would "I focuses rather on philosophical and spirituality aspect of Isese only" sic, save your soul (i.e. your ''ori'') from eternal destruction?

Would "I focuses rather on philosophical and spirituality aspect of Isese only" sic, rid forever, once and for all, sin(s), and all the societal ills, calamities, affliction, pains, misery, destitution, plagues, sickness, poverty et cetera of this world, hmm?

Leave the mudslinging for pigs, the blood bath is for big cats

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:36pm On Aug 18, 2020*

MuttleyLaff:
Look here Ọga FOLY, I have already posited you that context is king. The whole gamut of correct/accurate Bible interpretation, exegesis and/or hermeneutics is summed up in the phrase "context is king".

Now if peradventure you had abided by that principle, you would have got the nerve to think of some ignorant challenging to do again and again, asking for evidence to be dropped anywhere. When you are reading bible verses in isolation, why would you think, there will be anything in the verses that indicated "descent of Shem and Japheth took any direction aside the East" sic

At this juncture, please, show me, where you found, I did ever type, that the descendants of Shem and Japheth took any direction at all and took aside the East.

Oh really you challenged me? Well here it is, the 20yrs Pounded yam you requested for;

MuttleyLaff:
"Yes, Nimrod and his company, attempted building the tower to get a name for themselves, have their own god(s) and be their own god, having no need for God and no need to call on His name."
Nimrod, united the people to gather together to profane God."
"Not according to me, my dear friend, but according to the bible narrative in Genesis 10:9-10, we read that Nimrod's kingdom began in the region of Shinar (i.e. Babylonia) and that he was a fearless hunter in defiance of God. Now fast forward to Genesis 11:2, we further read that, after began moving away from God, this metaphorically means, they journeyed from the East, as in meaning, moved away from the presence of God. This is not surprising, being that, they are descendants of Ham, relics, of the earlier time Nephilim gene pool"
"The people that Nimrod gathered together were descendants of Ham,

Right above, you made so many unsubstantiated jargons.

1. That Nimrod built the tower. This claim has no root in the bible.

2. That Nimrod mobilised only descendants of Ham to build the tower

3. That only Ham descent travelled from/to the east, metaphorically away from God.

MuttleyLaff:
I immediately spotted and corrected the fat finger typo last night or in the early hours of the day when that post was hurriedly typed. I didnt know you are this nitpicking and a kofam bonafide hypocrite. There is a typo above in your quote and there's construct that don't make sense in the below quote of yours. He who lives in a glasshouse, ought not to throw stone. KMT. Mtcheew.

You've being behaving out of character since you've returned back from your hiatus. You've being employing all sorts of underhand tactics, so just to, by whatever means necessary, get an edge over. Smh.

Look at him, behaving as if, he isn't aware of what suggestive text and predictive text technology are. The word prediction or an assistive technology, kept changing my words and HTML tag typed. I am lucky I caught a few, but for the odd ones that slipped through the net, Ọga FOLY wants to hang me out, to dry, for it. If he had revisited the posts, he would have noticed that I had already corrected a few good ones, so to prevent misunderstandings.

Read the red emboldened and the underlined, do you clearly understand what you were trying to convey or understand the point you were trying to make with the above underlined construct, hmm? Yinmu. Smello firigbọn alatọle. KMT

Muttley, this isn't about the typo. I have gone past typographical errors, and had embarked on reconstructing what you meant so as to understand you better. But hey, you are still high and can't see the precise spot I am targeting here

Before you run for the gun, take a look into the mine I am setting up in the mud you are trying to create.
Genesis 11:2

CEB
When they traveled east, they found a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.

CSB
As people migrated from the east, they found a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.

CEV
but after some of them moved from the east and settled in Babylonia,

AMP
And as people journeyed eastward, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and they settled there.

ASV
And it came to pass, as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

ESV
And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there.

GNT
As they wandered about in the East, they came to a plain in Babylonia and settled there.

ISV
As people migrated westward, they came across a plain in the region of Shinar and settled there.

ASV, AMP, CEB stated that they migrated toward East direction. >>>>>>>>>> Eastward implies toward the east, opposite of west.

ISV holds that these migrant took the direction of the west. <<<<<<<<<< Westward implies they face toward rhe west direction, opposite of East.

ESV, CEV, CSB posit that they moved away from thr east, into unspecified directions. It could be south vvvvv, north ^^^^^, west <<<<<. They were not stationed in or moving toward the east.

GNT stated that they wandered within the east. Not leaving for the North, south or west. It indicates they only change position after wandering but never left the Eastern direction

The keywords from the different translations have made us understand that East in Genesis 11:2 is a movement, migration pattern from a geographical point to another, and East online points to the direction they took. East has no spiritual undertone as it is a cardinal point to a geographical area.

This is the map of Ararat and Babylon

https://www.bible-history.com/old-testament/mountains-ararat-babel.jpg

Direction from Babylon to Ararat is northwest.

MuttleyLaff:
Nope and capital NO, that God is in the west, and satan is in the east, because God, in fact, is in the east

Who then is in the west, North, and south?

https://cdn2.vectorstock.com/i/1000x1000/83/61/four-cardinal-directions-or-cardinal-points-vector-29008361.jpg

MuttleyLaff:
Watch this, if you are already in the east, and then start to move to the east/eastward, what do you think you embarked there and then to be doing? Exactamundo! You’re moving away from God.

East is not a position but a direction.

MuttleyLaff:
the [size=12pt]Bible scholars? Pfft. You make me laugh. Have you heard of the Spirit of Truth. Why not, out of curiosity, go find out from John 16:13 who He is and what He does

This is a two-way path, circular and led to the same spot.

MuttleyLaff:
I agree with the Bible that Nimrod did not build the tower. I also know and agree that, it simply the idea of Christians that Nimrod physically built the tower. Now having said all that, you'll have a task on your hand trying to find any quote of me, ever alluding that Nimrod physically or actually built a tower

Are you for real? These are your words.

"" "" Yes, Nimrod and his company, attempted building the tower to get a name for themselves, have their own god(s) and be their own god, having no need for God and no need to call on His name."" ""

MuttleyLaff:
Are these your favourite Bible scholars better human being than you are? Do these Bible scholars you are sucking up have exclusivity monopoly of knowledge and information, huh? Would it be an element of inferiority complex that stops you from having a legitimate objective understanding of Genesis 11:1 and its context, that's totally independent of and free of favourite Bible scholars' cognitive distortions, huh?

You think, I am you, trying to bamboozle me by proof-texting with Lamentations 3:37, when you dont have a scooby doo what the import of Lamentations 3:37 is talking about

You relied on English translation, which has went through modifications and lost it originality. You don't have the old manuscript or understand ancient words which these later day translations are based on. A scholar have much greater materials and resources than you to help understudy carefully what each word, phrase and sentence mean.

MuttleyLaff:
God "tempered"? Tempered indeed. Now mister, as I earlier typed, and repeating what I earlier asked you because you are repeating the same invalid sentiment.

Why should they descendants of Shem and Japheth today or even back then, remain speaking one language, huh? Are you God, to be dictating how things should pan out or develop ni? Does the sun only shine on good people alone without shinning on bad people, huh. Does rain only fall on your missus believer wife and not also on you a non believer, hmm? Then what will and who can stop God from tampering with the language of Shem and Japheth, just as much as He did with the the language of Ham's descendants, huh?

Smh. I kept drumming it into to your ears, but it goes in one ear and comes out the other. Why not stick your finger in one ear so the advice doesnt filter out through the other ear hole, hmm?

It is your duty to explain how and when the descent of Shem and Japheth lose their original language. Why was their tongue changed when God has not done it?

You are only presenting an extraordinary claims that descent of Shem and Japheth were not involved in the building of the tower, but magically got their language confused. Then you must present extraordinary evidence proving that descent of Shem and Japheth got their language confounded before or after the confusion at Babel.

Confounding of language happened at Babel, where and when did descent of Shem and Japheth language got confounded if they were not involved?

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:10pm On Aug 17, 2020

petra1:
Read the book of jasher . It gives more details .

Also kindly Google historical books or Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod?wprov=sfla1

When I said bible backup, I don't mean non canonised books of the bible. Without evidence from the 66 books of the bible, we can both agree that Nimrod wasn't the one who built the tower.

Take a look at content on Wikipedia:
""In Hebrew and Christian tradition , Nimrod is considered the leader of those who built the Tower of Babel in the land of Shinar , [5] though the Bible never actually states this. ""

The idea that Nimrod built the tower has it origin in Jewish and Christian tradition, these roots are all outside the Bible. When you find evidence within the Bible, please do not hesitate to present it sir.

petra1:
Remember the bible didn't give details but summary. Book of JASHER is known for details . Even among biblical scribes.

Joshua 10:13
. . . Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven. .

The book of jasher is non-cannonised and unacceptable.

The information in Gen 11 indicate that the people proposed to build a tower to make a name for themselves. There is no information in chapter 11 or outside Genesis that indicate that they were trying to avert another flood. That flood aversion theory is your own making.

petra1:
Rebbelion doesn't recognize covenant . We may leave that out for now then.

Lol

They already knew God won't cause another deluge. The rainbow was the seal of that promise.

And yes, there was no covenant that they shouldn't build tower. Building high rises isn't a sin. The tower was not dedicated as an altar to any Gods. I see no reason why God should be angry that they built a tower.

petra1:
Kindly read the verse yourself

Genesis 11:4
And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth

I will have to agree partially that you have a point here. But really, this is what you think their offence was, not really why God confounded their language.

They had two projects they were working on; city and city tower.

God didnt punish Cain for building a city, after he has instructed his parents and himself to scatter across and fill the world. There are many cities in the bible, no verse in all the bible mentioned that the builder of those cities was punished. Therefore, God definitely punished these people for building a tower that reaches heaven.

petra1:
It sure does. This is what led to Continental drift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvwUAUJjIM0

We can discuss this later

petra1:
Yes the rebbellion decided to occupy in one location and dwell in a city of tower . As they multiply they would rise higher in the structure. God had to scatter them and broke the earth into continents in the days of Peleg

Really? He broke the land into continents when men were already in existence?

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 11:36am On Aug 17, 2020

TATIME:
What a happy reconciliation!

I really love this!

Orunmila is a divinity against the dark powers of the world. He is married to one of this dark powers. And they lived peacefully.

Tibi tire ladaye....the beautiful and ugly have to coexist, allow harmony reign and stamp down chaos. This is the way of Tao

Christianity Etc › Re: This Is What/who To Preach by FOLYKAZE(m): 10:47am On Aug 17, 2020

achorladey:
For nairaland, no how you go LOOK wey something no go make you LAUGH! Too many attractions!

Hahahaha

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 10:42am On Aug 17, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
Smh, you certainly dont understand the import of Genesis 2:8, Genesis 3: 24, Job 1:3b, Matthew 2:1 et cetera and that the descendants of Shem and by proxy Japheth to a certain degree were men from the East aka sons of God

Oga Muttley, stop playing the ostrich game here. There is nothing in those verses that indicated descent of Shem and Japheth took any direction aside the East.

I am still challenging you, again and again, if you have any evidence from the Bible, you should drop it here.

MuttleyLaff:
Mtcheew. Shey ọrọ wa leleyi ni? KMT

You must be sniffing hard substance and not smoking hard substance. Fyi, it means that the garden served as an embassy, a governor general's office, a consulate et cetera and when A&E committed covetousness, treachery, betrayal and disloyalty, they unceremoniously got evicted from Eden. Where did you read about anyone ever talked about an ungodly foot of satan, whatever that in your wild and confused imagination means

That substance had better be magic mushroom dust... It is a natural substance that takes one into climax, where heaven and earth would be under your feat. I wish you can try magic mushroom, way better than green algae una dey line up to buy at molete.

Please drop thr cheap crack. It has led you into making typo errors, or dropping incoherent fancy twists.

In your own words
Your bible sub literacy is affecting you understanding Bible 101 basics, like what does East, imply and convey. If not you would have understood what in biblical language does it mean jot journey eastways away from God.

I didn't clearly don't understand what you meant or point you were trying to drive with the statement above. I only reconstructed and came with this:

FOLY, if you had understood the bible vividly, you would have seen that East, when used in the scripture, implies opposite direction of where God is.

Therefore, God is in the west, and satan is in the east.

This is why I asked if Eden in the east is in the ungodly foot of satan.

MuttleyLaff:
They went in the direction of their choice, but not same direction as the Nimrod led descendants of Ham, who in their though planned to build a city and erect an iconic tower in defiance to God

You are not supporting your claim with Bible or viewpoint of bible scholars.

1. The Bible didn't state particularly that Nimrod built the tower. That is simply the idea of Christian and Jewish traditions.

2. Gen 11:1 stated clearly that the people referred to are whole world populace. I have submitted view of Bible scholars to support this.

MuttleyLaff:
I am reiterating what I earlier asked you because you are repeating the same invalid sentiment. Why should they (i.e. descendants of Shem and Japheth) today or even back then, supposed to speak one language, huh? Are you God, to be dictating how things should pan out or develop ni? Does the sun only shine on good people alone without shinning on bad people, huh. Does rain only fall on your missus believer wife and not also on you a non believer, hmm?. Ọrẹ mi, all this "katakata" talk, as if like "akayin" no dey, here or there, at all. "Padi mi, jawọ lọwọ apọn ti ooo jọ" loosely translated means "My guy, already forget draw soup, wey no draw at all[/I]" be busy there proof-texting with Lamentations 3:37, that you dont have a scooby doo what the import of the verse is talking about

Oga stop bamboozling me with fancy words.

Gen 11:1 states that the whole world populace spoke one language.

At Gen 11:2, you deviated and said the people involved in building the tower are descendants of Ham, excluding Shem and Japheth.

Reading Gen 11:7, we found that the language of descents of Ham was confounded. Meanwhile, according to you, the language of the descent of Shem and Japheth were not tempered with.

This implies, unless at a point God tempered with the language of Shem and Japheth which you are yet to substantiate, the descent of Shem and Japheth should be speaking one language today. New language cannot just appear magically unless God has caused it.

And the absence of one language among the descent of Shem and Japheth buttress that they are involved in the building of the tower, and in that process got their own tongue confounded too

MuttleyLaff:
One of the mantra of bible exegesis and hermeneutic is: "[i]Thou shall not read scripture in isolation"

I've now realised that you are nothing other than a loudmouth braggart. You defo surely have a big green L-plate hanging round your neck because if not, you should know that a good bible student/teacher never reads bible verses in isolation. Context is King. Never read a bible text, just like that Gen 11:2, out of context, because if you do, it implies you are reading the narrative under pretext.

The letter is written in red color here. I be Learner na. Lol

It seems you ain't pleased with the commentary. Ok, here is another justifying my point

""What does Genesis 11:2 mean?
The previous chapter described all the nations, tribes, and languages that came from Noah's three sons. Genesis 11 backs up the story to the era before the people groups were divided. Until this point, the families of Shem, Ham, and Japheth remained together as a single people group with a single culture. Verse 1 told us they all shared the same language.

Here, in verse 2, we're told that this growing extended family migrated away from the region where the ark settled to the land of Shinar. Shinar is the region where Babylon will be established. Thus, at this point in the history of the earth, all the peoples of the world were gathered together in one region.

While it sounds wonderful for mankind to be united in culture and language, human sin makes this a dangerous condition. As shown prior to the flood, mankind's natural habit is towards depravity (Genesis 6:5). The need to restrict man's cooperation with man, at least to some extent, is a major reason for God's actions in this passage (Genesis 11:7–.""

https://www.bibleref.com/Genesis/11/Genesis-11-2.html

Down the line at Gen 11:9, it reads
Genesis 11:9 (ESV): 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth. And from there the LORD dispersed them over the face of all the earth.

1. The commentaries including another supporting bible verse stated that the language of the whole earth was confounded. This include all the three sons of Noah.

2. Descents of Shem and Japheth are all involved in the project. It was a collective efforts of people of one language.

MuttleyLaff:
As I earlier said, put on some humility sir, let your missus do a Priscilla-Apollo treatment with you because I know the essence of Job 1:3b and Job 22:15-17 went swoosh over your head as if like, it was a Naija MiG airforce fighter jets flying by. Your bible sub literacy is affecting you understanding Bible 101 basics, like what does East, imply and convey. If not you would have understood what in biblical language does it means to journey eastwards away from God. Do you know the meaning and/or implication of the Magi, in Matthew 2:1-2, journeying from the East to come worship and pay homage to Yashua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, hmm? I am quite sure there is a good chance Mrs FOLY knows. You are blessed because you have a good woman, daughter of God, whom through you are enjoying the cover of God. Smh. KMT

There is no correlation between Eliphaz narration and tower of babel incident.

They are two different scenarios.

MuttleyLaff:
Whatever floats your boat, save your soul (i.e. ''ori'') from eternal destruction, rids forever, once and for all, sins, and all the societal ills, calamities, affliction, pains, misery , destitution, plagues, sickness, poverty et cetera

It is what it is.

Christianity Etc › Re: This Is What/who To Preach by FOLYKAZE(m): 9:18am On Aug 17, 2020

Maximus69:
Good morning Sir!

There are lots and lots of experiences that makes us laugh my friend, in fact i believe that's the purpose of life, we ought to be happy always having plenty to do with laughter and joy from the heart. But with different opinions here and there we just have to look as in search for those with whom we share the same opinion so we can also share our thoughts, joy and sorrow with them. Each of us need someone to lean on and i think it's by observing closely what our neighbours makes their priorities in life that will help us to know the best set of people to associate with! Psalms 1:1-6 Compare to Psalms 133:1-3

Proverbs 17:22
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:10am On Aug 17, 2020

petra1:
You missed the point. The tower was built by Nimrod in rebellion.

Show evidences, from the bible, where it is stated that Nimrod built the tower.

petra1:
When he turned against God after the flood of Noah . He decided to build the tower just in case God send another flood . So they burnt the brick hard and used bitumen or asphalt to make the building waterproof. And wanted it higher than the flood .

The reason for building the tower, according to the bible is that they wanted to make name for themselves. No where in the bible was it stated that they projected to escape another deluge with the tower.

Didn't God promised Noah that he would not destroy the world again with flooding? So what is all these conspiracies about flooding coming from?

petra1:
Secondly its God desire for man to refill the earth but they decided to stay in one place .
God confounded the language not because he was against technology but rather he was against their rebellion .

These people built so many cities, not huts. The migration started from Ararat where the Ark docked, and they went Eastward around today Iraq. So when you say they are not filling the world, you are making it appear they sit duck at Ararat. They were continually moving and yet along building cities.

petra1:
Before this time the earth was just a mass of land but God broke the earth into continents under their feet . As they group linguistically. Thats we have Nations , Islands and continents today.

Continental drift has no basis in the bible. As a matter of fact, the Bible writers are unaware of continents or any world outside middle east

petra1:
Genesis 10:25
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

Any explanation what this verse got to with tower of babel?

Christianity Etc › Re: Is It Possible That Each Individual Has Their Own God (chi)? by FOLYKAZE(m): 10:20pm On Aug 16, 2020

joyandfaith:
jer 10:23
23 I well know, O Jehovah, that man’s way does not belong to him.
It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

My dear, heal the world, make it a better place for you, me and people out there. God is not ready to alleviate human suffering. Let's join hand together and solve our problems in our little ways

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: This Is What/who To Preach by FOLYKAZE(m): 10:16pm On Aug 16, 2020

achorladey:
Janosky: Does Achorladey belong to his biological father ?
Is Achorladey a member of his Father's family?
Is his Father's family a Group?

Achorladey: nowhere I repeat nowhere you will see the scripture say Jesus belongs to JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION . It's not by force to accept it.

The scripture you cited categorically states it clearly that Jesus BELONGS TO GOD 1 Corinthians 3:23

Is JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION = JEHOVAH?

Janosky: If Jesus Christ comes down from heaven to read the relevant Bible passages to you, UNA go tell am say UNA KNOWMORE

Achorladey: The one Jesus himself tell Paul to write in 1 Corinthians 3:23 which is VERY VERY RELEVANT part of the Bible that CHRIST BELONG TO GOD. You accept am?

Christ belong to JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION where you see am for BIBLE?

I just dey looku and laughu

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 10:12pm On Aug 16, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
¹After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem,
²asking, “Where is the One who has been born King of the Jews?
We saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”
³When King Herod heard this, he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him.…
- Matthew 2:1-3

Put on some humility sir, let your missus do a Priscilla-Apollo treatment with you because I know the essence of Job 1:3b and Job 22:15-17 went swoosh over your head as if like, it was a Naija MiG airforce fighter jets flying by. Your bible sub literacy is affecting you understanding Bible 101 basics, like what does East, imply and convey. If not you would have understood what in biblical language does it mean jot journey eastways away from God. Do you know the meaning and/or implication of the Magi, in Matthew 2:1-2, journeying from the East to come worship and pay homage to Yashua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, hmm? I am quite sure there is a good chance Mrs FOLY knows. You are blessed because you have a good woman, daughter of God, whom through you are enjoying the cover of God. Smh. KMT

I had askes you to simply tell us, using facts from the Bible, what directions Shem and Japheth took if they didn't take the eastern direction. And all you could came up with is that East is a spiritual term for ungodly ways. Common Muttley, I had thought you ain't smoking? When did you join Khalifa, MrPresident, and Buzugee gangs?

Remember in Gen 2:8, the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east. Does it mean he planted the garden in the ungodly foot of satan? Common Muttley, you are more than this.

Go into the bible again, tell us what direction Shem and Japheth took.

MuttleyLaff:
Why should they today or even then supposed to speak one language, huh? Are you God, to be dictating how things should pan out or develop ni? Does the sun only shine on good people alone without shinning on bad people, huh. Does rain only fall on your missus believer wife and not also on you a non believer, hmm?. Ọrẹ mi, all this "katakata" talk, as if like "akayin" no dey, here or there, at all. "Padi mi, jawọ lọwọ apọn ti ooo jọ" loosely translated means "My guy, already forget draw soup, wey no draw at all"

Lamentations 3:37, who speaks and have it done unless God decrees it?

Descents of Shem and Japheth language couldn't have changed unless God decreed it. But since you say they are neither involved in the building non their language confounded, how then do you say they speak another tongue today?

MuttleyLaff:
"⁹He became a fearlessf hunter in defiance ofg the LORD.
That is why it is said, “Like Nimrod, a fearless hunter in defiance of and/or before the LORD.”
¹⁰His kingdom began in the region of Shinar with the cities of Babylon, Erech, Akkad, and Calne."
- Genesis 10:9-10

"¹Now the whole world had one language and a common form of speech.
²As people moved from the east, they found a plain in Shinar [Babylonia] and settled there.
³They said to one another, "Let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used bricks as stones and tar as mortar.
⁴Then they said, "Let's build a city for ourselves and a tower with its top in the sky. Let's make a name for ourselves so that we won't become scattered all over the face of the earth."."
- Genesis 11:1-4

I am sure you dont need vision correction to see that in Genesis 11:2, the Hebrew word used was "benanawsah" and it conveys the meaning of people being led away from, uprooted, marching from, go forward from, move away from et cetera. The unmistakable glaring fact is that Genesis 11:1 used "the whole world" while Genesis 11:2, dropped down to using "as people moved from the east", not "as the whole world moved from the east" because it wasn't the whole world that moved from the east. It was only Nimrod and his fellow Ham descendants

Hahaha. Bravo sir!

Gen 11:2 commentary as found on https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/genesis-11-2.html

And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east

"That is, the inhabitants of the whole earth; not Ham and his posterity only, or Nimrod and his company; but as all the sons of Noah and his posterity for a while dwelt together, or at least very near each other, and finding the place where they were too scanty for them, as their several families increased, they set out in a body from the place where they were, to seek for a more convenient one:"

You are simply turning the whole Bible upside down.

MuttleyLaff:
Where did you read anyone saying the Noahide flood is the same timeline with Tower of Babel event, huh? Smh. I am not surprised you failed to see the connection of who are people of the East, and was incapable of joining the dots with the Job and Eliphaz references of the east and flood. Fyi, Job stayed in the east and Job lived just after Noah and before Moses. So you know, staying in the east, with a spiritual undertone with it

You said, in your own words that Eliphaz was only recounting what happened during the Noahide flood in Job 22:15-17. The people against God during Noah days were already gone with the deluge. Verse 16 included " their foundations were swept away by a river."... The people referred to here are simply those of Noah days who are already extinct during the construction of Babel. As a matter of fact, Eliphaz referenced Noah days, not Nimrod days. So there is no correlations.

And back to the issue before we digressed, how come the world populace according to Gen 11:1 are only descent of Ham as you stated? What happen to descent of Shem and Japheth?

Pfft!. Emotionally based kọ. Ọdun

MuttleyLaff:
Alagẹmọ ni. Shọrọ wa leleyẹn gan ni. KMT.

I have given you for free, a real diagnosis, about what the stumbling block and problem is, and you are talking some irrational and emotional nonsense. Have I ever said to you that you are emotional based, though, it is apparent your ATR belief when put under rigorous and clinical scrutiny is suspect, hmm?

I really don't subscribe to religious aspect of ATR. I focuses rather on philosophical and spirituality aspect of Isese only.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:22pm On Aug 16, 2020

obonujoker:
In all things man has created or built, all glory must go back to God... This is because he made all things possible

He was angry they built towers, when human have built iss and launched it into low earth orbit

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 9:21pm On Aug 16, 2020

obonujoker:
Christianity isn't a religion!!! It's doing what the Lord Jesus Christ ask us to do as his representatives on earth

Taoism is not a religion. Taoist are only following the way of Tao

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 7:09pm On Aug 16, 2020

obonujoker:
The Bible already prophesied that many will fall away, but we as believers must continue to the end

Many religion have come and gone. Christianity isn't an exception

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 7:08pm On Aug 16, 2020

obonujoker:
This is the voice of Nimrod... The voice of the Antichrist... The voice of Satan.

All glory goes to God

Whose voice are you talking about? Mine or that of kumuyi?

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 7:06pm On Aug 16, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
"⁹He became a fearlessf hunter in defiance ofg the LORD.
That is why it is said, “Like Nimrod, a fearless hunter in defiance of and/or before the LORD.”
¹⁰His kingdom began in the region of Shinar with the cities of Babylon, Erech, Akkad, and Calne."
- Genesis 10:9-10

"²As people moved from the east, they found a plain in Shinar [Babylonia] and settled there.
³They said to one another, "Let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used bricks as stones and tar as mortar.
⁴Then they said, "Let's build a city for ourselves and a tower with its top in the sky. Let's make a name for ourselves so that we won't become scattered all over the face of the earth."."
- Genesis 11:2-4

Not according to me, my dear friend, but according to the bible narrative in Genesis 10:9-10, we read that Nimrod's kingdom began in the region of Shinar (i.e. Babylonia) and that he was a fearless hunter in defiance of God. Now fast forward to Genesis 11:2, we further read that, after moving away from God, this metaphorically means, they journey from the East, as in meaning, moved away the presence of God. This is not surprising, being that, they are descendants of Ham, relic of the earlier time Nephilim gene pool

Please indicate sir, with Bible back up, what directions Shem and Japheth took if they didn't take the east direction?

MuttleyLaff:
Affirmative, yes it affected the lips, words and tongues of the elder Japheth and junior Shem too

They weren't involved, their language wasn't confounded. They were left non shattered. Today, they arw supposed to speak one languages.

MuttleyLaff:
Re-read Gen 11:1-2 once more again, but carefully and slowly, because when you do, you'll notice that it was not all the people of the whole world that moved eastwards, but it was the rebel forces, influenced and led by Nimrod

Genesis
11:1 At one time all the people of the world spoke the same language and used the same words.
2 As the people migrated to the east, they found a plain in the land of Babylonia and settled there.

The people in verse 1&2 are totality of human populace, not subset of Hamites.

MuttleyLaff:
"... Job was the greatest man of all the people of the East.
- Job 1:3b

"¹⁵Will you stay on the ancient path that wicked men have trod?
¹⁶They were snatched away before their time, and their foundations were swept away by a river.
¹⁷They said to God, ‘Depart from us. What can the Almighty do to us?’…"
- Job 22:15-17

FOLY, fyi, I only captured descendants of Ham, leaving behind Shem and Japheth, because according to Job 1:3b, Job stayed behind and was recognised to be the greatest of all the men of the east.

Now, do you know the identity of who is talking in Job 22:15-17 above. Never mind the answer, as I'll volunteer it. It is Eliphaz, recounting what happened during the Noahide flood

Noahide flood isn't same with Tower of Babel time.

MuttleyLaff:
Not all stories in the Bible are esoteric. They likely are going to be esoteric to people like you my dear friend and the likes of the Pharisees, the Jewish sect who were "far-to-see" who never saw eye to eye with Yashua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ.

Yashua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, in Luke 8:10 said that:
"believers are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of God, but that He uses parables to teach others so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled: ‘When they look, they won’t really see. When they hear, they won’t understand"

Matthew 13:13, says: "For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand" literally meaning that the more you look, the less you see. This is the perplexity of the situation you are in my friend

If you start reading the bible contextually, not in isolation and under pretext, you would have realised that God takes great pleasure in righteous human unity and just innovations, so please quit this uncalled for and unnecessary truculent attitude. You miss road with with the Genesis 11 account

Hahahaha.

How many times do I have to tell you belief system are not factual but rather emotionally based. The stories in the bible have no basis in history. Well this thread isn't about that

Christianity Etc › Re: Tower Of Babel, An Insight Into Space Exploration And Architectural Revolution by FOLYKAZE(op): 6:35pm On Aug 16, 2020

Maximus69:
Well let's see if Science can bring people together, Jesus' teachings has done it's part and Jehovah's Witnesses have emerged as a result of Jesus' preaching and teaching work.

So it's left to everyone to choose where to pitch their tents!

Thanks!

Religion is dwindling in countries with better infrastructure, good economy, and exposure to education.

It is a new age, information and data processing.

Peace bro

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