₦airaland Forum

Ken4Christ:
But our Lord Jesus said he would raise himself up from the dead. Did he lie?

John 2:19–21: “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

John 10:17–18: “I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.”

John 11:25: “I am the resurrection, and the life."

The Scripture also said that the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead:

Romans 8:11: “The Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead…”

1 Peter 3:18: “…put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

you need to listen to your own words, "You only quote references of scriptures that appears to support your opinions and ignore many others that says otherwise."

John.2.22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

Wouldn't it had made more sense if apostle John had written after Jesus rose himself up from the dead.
Listen I will resurrect when Jesus returns, I will raise up, but those that mean I am the one doing it or those that make me God.


Thank God you quoted John 10:17-18, issue is you didn't actually quote all that's in those verse, did you now because you subtly left out the part where Jesus said it is God's command, so the authority Jesus had and exercised, John understood it from Jesus to be by God's command.

You know how Mary responded to what Jesus said in John 11:25
John.11.27 "Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."

Is it not wonderful that you quoted
Rom.8.11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as he raised Christ from the dead, he will give life to your mortal body by this same Spirit living within you.

You though you asked did Jesus lie about raising himself from the dead, even when you know he never raised himself by himself but God did

Ken4Christ:
... the same dishonest strategy:

You only quote references of scriptures that appears to support your opinions and ignore many others that says otherwise.

Don't tell me you are not aware of scriptures that affirm the deity of Christ. Jesus is referred to as God in several passages of the scriptures.

He also claimed to be God.
God the Father called him God
Angels worshipped him. In fact Angels are commanded to worship him.
He is worshipped alongside with God the Father.

Why are you pretending you are not aware of all these.

When John the Beloved heard a voice behind him in the Isle of Patmos saying:

Revelation 1:11
... I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

When he turned to see who was talking to him, who did he see? Jesus.

So, Jesus is revealed as Alpha and Omega.
God, the Father is Alpha and Omega.
Can't you enough sense that they are one God in different manifestations- Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.

I am coming up with a full book on the subject of Trinity. Only the spiritually blind will deny it's untrue.

First off scriptures are from Genesis to Malachi and that's what Jesus taught, and none of them called the Messiah God.

Secondly Jesus never claimed to be God, there's not a single quote made in the four gospels that Jesus claimed to be God nor claimed to be another God.

Angels are not commanded to worship God but they are commander to worship the son of God as the Messiah not as God.

God Himself is quoted saying, "There is NONE like him" He alone is God, expect you are saying the scriptures are a lie or that God lied?/

Boomark:
I think I have shown you that it was the Father who raised Jesus Christ from the dead. An undisputable fact from over 30 scriptures.

So if someone ask you who raised Jesus from the dead? The correct answer is the Father.

What the Holy spirit is called cannot change it. Your understanding of Godhead cannot change it. Unity between the Son and the Father cannot change it. Both of them didn't unite and died together unseparated since you can't separate the son from the Father. My explanation should have helped you to dump all these beliefs that can't prove anything.


Romans 10:9 – “…if thou shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

You are free to give yourself trinity reasons to reject what God has done by himself and also reject being saved. You are on your own., I have done what you asked for perfectly well..

should I say I am surprised or not, I mean I was expecting ken4christ to say you are wrong after giving you option A B C and D, but he just goes ahead and starts defending his logic and doctrine, irrespective of the scriptures that tell us otherwise

As long as the one you know is the truth, then he is enough, more than enough

Repentance is genuinely asking for forgiveness with a genuine desire to change and do what is right

Thankgod89:
I hear your points, but I believe there is some confusion about the order of forgiveness, faith, and repentance. Let me explain what I mean from Scripture.

Colossians 2:13 does not say God forgave us after we repented — it says, “He forgave us all our sins” when He made us alive with Christ. That forgiveness was accomplished at the Cross, once for all. Paul is reminding believers of what Christ already did, not of what God is still deciding to do.

Yes, Acts 3:19 says, “Repent and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out.” But repentance here (Greek metanoia) means a change of mind and heart toward God. It’s not first about cleaning yourself up, but about believing the gospel. Notice how Peter later says in Acts 10:43: “Everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” Believing is the doorway to forgiveness, and that believing heart is what true repentance looks like.

You also mentioned Hebrews 10:14. That verse shows the difference between what Christ already finished and what the Spirit is still working out in us. By one sacrifice He perfected forever those who believe — that is forgiveness and righteousness given once-for-all. At the same time, we are being made holy in our daily walk. That’s sanctification, not forgiveness.

As for 2 Corinthians 5:19, it says “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting people’s sins against them.” That was done at the Cross. Our ministry now is not to tell people “repent enough so that God may forgive you,” but to announce the good news that forgiveness has already been purchased, and call them to believe it. That believing is what turns the heart to God — and that is repentance.

So no, I’m not saying “everyone is automatically forgiven.” I’m saying forgiveness is a finished work in Christ, but it only becomes ours when we believe. And when we truly believe, transformation and repentance naturally follow.

Repentance without transformation is just religion. But faith in Christ brings the new birth, which produces real repentance from the inside out. That’s why Paul could say in Romans 2:4, “the goodness of God leads you to repentance.”

Brother, I don’t want to mix error with truth. I simply want to hold to the simple gospel: forgiveness is by grace through faith in Christ, not by our works of repentance. Repentance is the fruit of faith, not the price for forgiveness.

If we leave out the confusion that isn't from God nor His word, it's pretty straightforward if one is willing to believe and accept it instead of changing it. Repentance being the prerequisite for forgiveness has been consistent through the scriptures even to the gospel and revelation. Jesus literally told some of the churches to repent and be forgiven before it was too late. Are you suggesting they were not part of those whom he shed his blood for, for whom forgiveness were purchased once and for all.

Your usage of the term, once and for all and that Christ died once so that negates the need for repentance which isn't even in agreement with the author of Hebrew who also taught/wrote in repentance. You are still quoting col 2:13 out of context even after I literally quoted verses from the same chapter to show that we needed to be separated from sins before forgiveness...

Paul wrote Col.2.13 - You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ. He forgave all our sins.

But does it say what you wrote, you said "it says, “He forgave us all our sins” when He made us alive with Christ. Infact you ignore the cutting away of our sins so that you can claim, it doesn't say God forgave us after we repeated.

Is it that you don't know that repentance is turning away from the world and sins and turning to God. Just for your agenda you reverse the arrangement of words. Still your words doesn't deny repentance and separation from sin which made us dead.

Bro and your acts 3:19, are you doing that for the sake of arguing because you trying to twist changing ones heart and mind to mean, believing is an error. It's the blood of Jesus that cleanses those who turn away from their sinful ways and turn to God. A repentant person acknowledges that they are sinners, sinful and in need for forgiveness, they are making decisions inside to change and take the necessary steps to do so.

Like if a person changes and becomes perfect would they need to apologize seven times for a mistake. Oh Father forgive us as we forgive those who wrong us. John said if anyone sins, know that God is faithful to forgive, was it James or even John, confess your sins to one another. Like how do you skip a major part, Hebrews calls it foundations of repentance, and begin to type and teach what you are typing?
Mark.1.15 "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"

Matt.21.32 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

REPENT AND BELIEVE, like how do you believe in Jesus without repentance? That's a false doctrine.

Now you brought up Hebrew 10:14 you should realize that what Jesus perfected is our hearts and not making us sinless or incapable of making mistakes, I used that chapter to show you that the blood of Jesus works in our life unlike your constant use of once and for all forgiveness, which can be misused to be mean forgiven for future sins as well or misused to mean only past sins. It is surprising that you know it is sanctification and not forgiveness yet you kept stating previously that we are already forgiven because of Christ death and have don't need to repent before being forgiven. As if repenting negates the blood of Jesus already made available for those who turn to God in repentance.

You see agents of darkness do not want people to repent and turn to God, so they say well sounding stuffs like "Our ministry now is not to tell people “repent enough so that God may forgive you,” but to announce the good news that forgiveness has already been purchased, and call them to believe it. That believing is what turns the heart to God — and that is repentance."

Misleading people into believe they don't need to repent, mocking repentance by saying repent enough, ignoring the words of Jesus and twisting away the gospel which states repent for the kingdom of God is near.

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE REPENTANCE WITHOUT TRANSFORMATION, repentance is transformation, if you have truly repented you would know this. To repent is to change your ways and follow God's ways. Do not conform to the world but be renewed, be transformed by the word of God, by changing your mind, how you think, changing your lifestyle.

If you read Romans 2 well, you would know that in that verse 4 you quoted the kindness of God there is His patience waiting for people to repent. It isn't God's forgiveness leading to repentance like you want to assume.

And that's why verse 7, Romans 2:7 states that it is those who continue to do what is good are those whom God gives eternal life.

Boomark:
Yes. So how then will Trinitarians come and say that since Christ has the fullness of God, it means that he is equal to God. They don't even know that it was given to him by God. They don't have respect for the Father. Trinity Is the agenda of satan and the antichrist against the Father who reconciled us to himself since they lost when Christ died and resurrected.

God the Father is the owner of Godhead (divine nature). It is his nature and not a position for trinity or 3 persons. The Father, who is One God over all owns it.

See my rebuttal on it. Trinitarians don't understand scripture. They don't know the meaning of things.

https://www.nairaland.com/8486945/bible-challenge-trinity-boomark-image123/6#136513274

You can't pick holes in what I wrote because they are true.

Now the simple understanding of the verse you quoted, Ephesians 3:19 is Paul telling us that knowing this love of Christ, fills us with all the fullness of God.

Yet why they are asked is being full of God make one God, they are divided some say yes we are gods (even though some of them would honestly say no). But they say yes because they want to be believe that the same fullness (pleroma) in col 2:9 is different and that one means to them that Christ is God.

What's funny is that, one is full of God the other is full of divinity, between the two who should be more of a part of the God trio, should it not be the one full of God.

I realized that to those who are blind, be it truth or logic, they just can't see any of it.

Boomark:
He has been silent to me after I proved he mocked Jesus' words and "do you believe in Jesus' words" which I asked them. He called Jesus word and my question false dichotomy.

They don't know what they are doing.

he won't stay silent for long, watch him wiggle his way out of the truth so as to justify himself.

The guy accused me falsely for many months even after I showed him proof he refused it, I decided to discard it and I give him a fresh slate, I defined God again for him and yet he ran away again. All he cares about is making up false accusations, even if he has to make up things so that the person he is accusing would not have time or find it hard to prove otherwise

Boomark:
Ephesians 3:18-19 NRSV
[18] I pray that you may have the power to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth and length and height and depth, [19] and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.


Fullness of God can be given to believers. Wait for rebuttal today and you will see that it was God's decision to give his fullness to Christ and it can also be given to believers.

The foundation of trinity is based on twisted scriptures and lack of understanding.

just ask them is God is anointed the honest ones would say no, yet they will still claim that God is Christ, like Christ has another meaning besides the anointed.

It's simple understanding like this that some of them lack that makes it tiring to even be in a conversation with them

vexing:
You did a great job in your explanation. Thank you very much.

you're welcome, we thank God.

You called in Gabriel the accuser 🤣, it would be better to find someone who would be more interested in a honest dialogue

Janosky:
The concept was not even mentioned nor discussed in Proverbs 8:22-30.

like! I don't even know where to start, she's not tracking the conversation nor following what she herself is even writing.

Her level of understanding is to refer to one time mention of a phrase as "mundane fixation" and when she is told she isn't using words properly she goes on the defensive and attacks, instead of even trying to explain how or why she used it.

Like how I can even have a conversation with someone who seems more interested in typing than actually reading and understanding what is written. If she is showing poor understanding of people's words it's obvious the concept in Proverbs is beyond her and she won't even listen to learn.

Julia25:
What’s with the laugh? Did you miss the phrase 'as originating' up there? Or is it the word 'transcendental' that’s tripping you up?

Honestly, how a Christian can be asking 'where did God transcend from?' is beyond baffling 😂😂. Your delusion must be strong—but I don’t have the time (or the patience) to cure it. May God at least allow you to transcend over it 🤧 .

Since you love the word so much, let me help: God didn’t transcend from anywhere, He transcends all things. Meanwhile, you seem stuck trying to transcend simple logic 🤦🏾‍♂️. And until you do, you’ll just keep transcending from one absurd question to the next 😂.

being able to type many words but not being able to properly understand one word you keep (improperly)using "transcendent"

so it's obvious you don't also understand the question "transcended from where"?

At least use a dictionary Google or something so maybe we can have a convo, please. 🙏🏾

Julia25:
Don't be petty , at least you have a thesaurus, look up the meaning of " transcendental " as it applies to God .

Is that not what I said? Or did you see something else in my write-up? It's in the first paragraph for Christ's sake .

I will leave you to your delusions.

👀🫣😐😑

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Thankgod89:
Forgiveness was accomplished once-for-all at the Cross, but it becomes yours in experience only when you believe — and that believing heart is what Scripture calls repentance.

On the Cross, Jesus bore the sin of the world.

“He forgave us all our sins” (Colossians 2:13).

“By one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy” (Hebrews 10:14).


At that moment, God was no longer holding the world’s sins against them (2 Corinthians 5:19). Forgiveness is not something God is still deciding about — it is a finished reality.

“Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name” (Acts 10:43).

Repentance is not “listing every sin” — it is a change of heart and mind produced by believing.


God’s forgiveness is not earned by repentance; it was purchased by Christ’s blood. But forgiveness is not enjoyed apart from repentance, because repentance is what genuine faith looks like.

Col 2:13 you quoted was Paul referring to those who repented and came to Christ Jesus, and not to everyone

If you are willing read from Col.2.10...
and you are complete through your union with Christ. He is the Lord over every ruler and authority in the universe. When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. It was a spiritual procedure--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to a new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.
You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ. He forgave all our sins.

Acts.3.19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

You quoted Heb.10.14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

So the death, the blood was for our perfecting, do you really understand and know what that means? So the blood is still working and at work for those who ARE BEING MADE holy.

Believing in your heart is not repentance, that's doctrine from hell.

You claimed,"Forgiveness is not something God is still deciding about — it is a finished reality." Are you saying God has already forgiven the whole world?

Anyway irrespective of whatever you mean, you quoted 2corin.5.19 is a finished reality yet it using the term "reconciling" and not "reconciled" like you claimed

Infact you read 2Cor.5.18 All this newness of life is from God, who brought us back to himself through what Christ did. And God has given us the task of reconciling people to him.

So those who have repented and turned back to God are the "US", the those who are given the task and message of reconciling people to God.

With what? The gospel, the same one Jesus preached. And what's the gospel? REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND. REPENT.

Believe in Jesus, believe what he said and what did Jesus say, REPENT. REPENTANCE IS TURNING AWAY FROM YOUR WICKED WAYS AND TURN TO GOD.

You have a way of mixing error into the truth, REPENT like Jesus told the churches in revelation so that you will be forgiven.

😂 not surprised Gabriel is a well known accuser and false teacher, you will say A and he will teach and deduce Q
That's what false teachers do with their false doctrines they base off the truth of God's word.

Julia25:
"As originating" —If you didn't see that then you have a problem.

If your own God created wisdom, as you peddle it, then he was foolish but if the concept called "wisdom" originated from him then there's no problem except if your God is not transcendental .

God is wisdom. Also in poetical languages, you can say "God created wisdom" but the context is that wisdom originates from God, it has always been with him, He didn't just attain it, He is Wisdom!

lol "transcendental" you sound like a comic book writer, so where did God transcend from?

Don't bother answering seeing as you don't properly understand the phrase "of God as originating"

Janosky:
Screenshot evidence & footnote of Proverbs 8:22-30 (NET Bible) gives clarity to your point .

thanks, I hope julia25 and Co will see this as well

"it's impossible"?? Yet John wrote in 1 John:4

[1] Dearly loved friends, don’t always believe everything you hear just because someone says it is a message from God: test it first to see if it really is. For there are many false teachers around,
[2] and the way to find out if their message is from the Holy Spirit is to ask: Does it really agree that Jesus Christ, God’s Son, actually became man with a human body? If so, then the message is from God.
[3] If not, the message is not from God but from one who is against Christ, like the Antichrist you have heard about who is going to come, and his attitude of enmity against Christ is already abroad in the world.


Holy Bible (TLB) The Living Bible

Emusan:
Yet you couldn't provide the said God's word to back your claim.



Are these the scriptures that says God CREATED Jesus to be His exact image?




Do Trinitarians ever told you that there's are TWO/THREE ONLY GODS Or you didn't know that Trinitarians also agreed that there's ONLY ONE GOD?

accusing me falsely doesn't change the truth available and evidence provided but you can continue doing what you are good at 👍🏾

It's like some haven't learnt from Rome and Roman catholic history what happens when one weaponizes or puts guns in the than hands of priests and make it more political. When you marry church and state, you don't get the kingdom of God, you get men wrapped in ambitious now given the power to do what they want "in the name of God". Even so called Muslim states are examples of how ruthless religious leadership can be.


In all honesty that's the kind of state that the antichrist thrives in, rules over and is celebrated.

Should pastors be involved in politics, well when Paul wrote the criteria for being an overseer, deacon and pastor, politics wasn't stated. God isn't democratic and the basis and foundation of politics is different from God's kingdom, those states are going to be destroyed by Jesus not ruled by him, destroyed and God's kingdom established. You cannot be UNEQUALLY yoked.

As pastors your message and word to politicians is to be truthful, honest and faithful but those who know politics know that there's a level of dishonest lies and deception they employ to agree with those who are selfish and wicked. The genuine believers who are politicians are suffering from the corrupted view and ideologies of men. So if a pastor wants to be a politician he must be prepared for war or be prepared to be UNEQUALLY yoked with them.

1894pu75893ieip5uu495ppuy3t3io5p5i6i5p389

I am always in church the body of Christ where every child of God is 😊

When I look at the statement "forgiveness without repentance", I ask myself, why do some teach such? What is the basis such is being taught?

You may have heard some say, 'well you can't repent of all you have done', 'like how many can you even remember', 'God doesn't wait for you to say sorry before he forgives you that's how much he loves you', 'like what kind of father wants his child to keep apologizing for what he has forgiven them for'.
Which are all a lot of well sounding logic to make people accept that forgiveness can be gotten without repentance.

Infact at times if you don't forgive a person who hasn't repented or asked for forgiveness you are seen as the bad guy.

Yet it is written

Jer.36.3 - Perhaps the people of Judah will repent if they see in writing all the terrible things I have planned for them. Then I will be able to forgive their sins and wrongdoings."

Luke.17.3-4 - I am warning you! If another believer sins, rebuke him; then if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Luke.24.47 - With my authority, take this message of repentance to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem: 'There is forgiveness of sins for all who turn to me.'

Luke.3.3 - He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts.2.38 - Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts.8.22 - Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.


There is no forgiveness without repentance.

Emusan:
Yet you couldn't support your statement with just single verse from God's word.

Should we then take your mere word as fact over God's word?

you shouldn't but then what stopped you from accepting those statements backed up by God's word.

John.17.3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Mark.12.32 The teacher of religious law replied, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth by saying that there is only one God and no other.


would you not look for another excuse to reject the truth? That there is only one God and that Jesus is the son of God, whom God brought to life and says, this is my son and I am his Father.

Preciousgirl:
Why did Jesus weep?

John 11:35
Jesus wept.


What made The Lord weep?

because he is human, do human not weep when loved ones are in pain

Julia25:
This is more befitting because if one suggests God created wisdom, except in the form as "wisdom originated from God", then it is completely wrong. A transcendental being such as God is immutable, hence He doesn't change!

If He acquired or created wisdom then He was foolish earlier, which now begs the question which Gabrielshow24 has posed, "how did he attain wisdom when he is foolish? " Note the use of "is" since he is eternally present. Hence it becomes impossible for him to acquire or create wisdom since he is foolish!

The orthodox view is what you have surmised above! God is wisdom. The owner of the thread is wrong on that footing.

I am wrong because you decided that creation and origin are two different things?

Well done

The first true worshipper of God, is the son of God. The first one to sing God's praises the true heavenly choir leader Jesus the son of God

Happy Sunday, don't forget your church cleaners today o

Lol if ebuka songs sees this one now I wonder what he would say

Peacecore:
Hello, guys!

It's become a norm in our societies today seeing pastors, evangelists, and upcoming Xtian brothers and sisters preaching along the roads, in the markets, in parks etc. I have also noticed that less or no individual listens to their preaching because of busy schedules.

My question is; is it really necessary? Does it serve the purpose it's intended?
What's your take on this?

what's "our" take? If you really cared why not ask those directly involved in those evangelism instead of asking the general public.

You noticed? How did you notice, did you stand and watch or you were passing by?