₦airaland Forum

AntiChristian:
I am quoting the translated copy of the copy of the copy of the copy of the copy of the copy........of the Injeel at best! The original copies of the Bible as written by the first authors are all extinct! I am not an Israelite. Even Jesus discriminated against a Canaanite woman due to her race!



But why not quote verse 29 where Jesus says "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all" This still means it was his father that gave those sheep to him. The lost sheep of Israel. A specific demography!

glad you quoted vs 29, yet it doesn't collaborate your point that Jesus is ONLY sent to the Israelite nor contradict what I have written. You said you are not a sheep of Jesus that also means God did not give you to Jesus.

Matthew 15:24 - Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep—the people of Israel.”
I no be Israelite! Jesus was not even sent to all Israel. But the lost ones!

yes and according to you Jesus turned away and the women left, is that what the Muslim Jesus did? Did your Muslim Jesus reject her and let her child die, even though she has faith to come to God? Did your Muslim Jesus reject every non Israelite that came to him or was brought to him by God?

I believe in Jesus as God sent to the people of Israel just like I did others before him. Moses wasn't sent to me. Noah wasn't sent to me.. Jonah wasn't sent to me! Joseph wasn't sent to me. John the Baptist wasn't sent to me! Jesus wasn't sent to me! Only Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam is sent to all of us. Everyone of them had the respective people they were sent to!

yes Noah wasn't sent to you because you fell off from the sky? Yes only Muhammad was sent to you, and he taught you not to follow Muslim Jesus did he not?

I asked you If you say you believe in Jesus and you are not part of his flock, then what are you?
I even explained to help you understand your own logic:
Now you as a Muslim claim to believe in Jesus and say everyone who serves God is a Muslim. From this incorruptible statement by Jesus that those who do not believe Jesus as the Messiah are not part of his flock.. therefore we can also say that those who believe are part of his flock.

The simple answer is that you don't believe that Jesus was sent to you, you don't believe nor follow Jesus and you are not part of his flock. Simple. Expect like you said Muslim Jesus is different, so maybe you are not a part of bible Jesus flock but part of a folk of Muslim Jesus. 😁

Is the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15:24 among his sheep? If so then Jesus lied by saying “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep—the people of Israel.”

yes John.6.37 However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

Or did your Muslim Jesus reject her?

If Canaan is not Israel how can Nigeria or Africa be Israel?



Do I have to obey Moses, Noah and others too? No!

The Messiah is to guide the lost sheep of Israel to salvation and not Africans.

well you clearly don't obey Moses who said people should obey Jesus, neither do you obey any of the prophets who spoke about the Messiah. That's your answer. Even if God commands the world to obey Jesus you won't, I understand 😊

If people must obey me and not those who came after me I must claim to be the last and say is it not like those who stopped obeying Moses and obeyed Jesus. 😏

So is it Muhammad that should guide Africans?

Did he?
Because at least Jesus is still alive and Muhammad has die, so did Muhammad guide the Africans?
Was Muhammad sent to Africa? Did he go to Nigeria? Wait did he go to Egypt or Ethiopia?

It's so funny that you don't even know what Canaan and Canaanites are to Israel and israelites 😂 😆

He didn't even preach to the Canaanite woman at all. Did he came to save her or guide her to eternity?

oh he preached to her and she acknowledged her state and showed faith, great faith that brings salvation even to those who are not Jews.
A dog can only enter the house when the door is open for it, or else how did the door eat crumbs falling from a table that's inside the house if the dog never turn away from the outside and came in.

I guess this story wasn't corrupted right? 😊

Are you saying that the basis of your believe concerning Jesus is based on Matthew 15:24
But do you realize what happens in verse 25 😏
Matt.15.25 But she came and worshiped him and pleaded again, "Lord, help me!"

Was she wrong to worship Jesus whom God commands the angels to worship as Lord, so that her child would not die?

Is this Jesus the Muslim Jesus and she is a Muslim who believed in God. Or should she have turned away and let her child die?

If saying Jesus is Lord to God's glory, doesn't that mean denying he is Lord doesn't give glory to God?

How do you know which part is corrupted or not? Our judge is our Qur'an! Whatever the Qur'an affirms is true!

No trinity! Jesus is fully human! He did miracles by Allah's leave. He didn't die but was raised up body and soul.

and apart from what you just wrote here the rest is true right, especially matt 15 you quoted and John you quoted.
If Quran is taken as a book that judges the gospel then tell it should also state what is true and what is false in it right?

But you are making it sound more like a gossip spread to undermine someone else. Is that really the basis of the Quran?

That's your own opinion or maybe the Christian opinion. The Torah was a law for the people of Moses and some other Prophets after him.

are you saying there were prophets of God who did not follow the Torah? Mention some of them let's learn

When Jesus came some laws in the Torah were abrogated and some relaxed! This is a major change! This is why Christians today separates the old testament and new testament. Why do you still fight about tithing till today? How many old testament laws do you still observe apart from the major ten commandments?

Can you stone your stubborn or rebellion child as stated in the old testament?

The way the Bible was written makes it look like a separate God exists in the old testament and in the New testament. One is fierce and brutal while the other is cool, calm and forgiving!

lol separate God that didn't kill Abraham for lying, or the other countless examples of him forgiving those who offended. That brutal God sent Jonah to Nineveh.. don't be myopic in reasoning o and only see what you want to see.

You don't even know the purpose the nation was founded by God. It's so funny that the very people who claim to serve the same God as Israel refused to give the "Jews" back their land and are still fighting them till date 😂 😂 😂 😆 😆

The gospel as well as the Torah were never preserved as scripture! Human hands has crept into them both. That's why their originals in the language Jesus spoke never existed.

but the Quran was because that's what they told you 😂 😂 😆

How can Jesus be speaking Aramaic and the Book exists as Greek? Was Jesus a Greek?

Jesus didn't write a book, infact he gave his Holy Spirit to teach us, which cannot be corrupted or altered but here you are distrusting people of changing scripture but trusting some others or not doing so 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.

By the way why are you writing in English are you from England? 😂😂😂 You don't even know that the oldest original Tanakh was translated to Greek, Septuagint long before the masoretic text.

Scriptures are meant to replace and confirm one another! The Injeel did mention and confirmed the Torah. The Qur'an too did mention and confirmed all previous scriptures before it.

No scripture is against any other scripture! The Injeel in its true form will not be against the Qur'an. Same as the Torah!

But these do not exist anymore!

Only the Qur'an survived!

did Injeel did not just mention it, it quoted from it severally associating the Quran that contradicts both is fallacy. Your basic reasoning is that the true gospel will not go against the Quran the same Quran that teaches you that the Torah and Injeel don't exist anymore 😂😆 even when it clears exists. Is that not a fallacy?

AntiChristian:
Your accussation was that Allah calls Jesus lord! Why are you changing like a Chameleon? Allah mentions clearly that there's not God but Him.

Going back to the context of the the verse:

And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." (At-Tawbah 9:30-31)

They actually took their Rabbis, Monks and Jesus as lords! So why the emphasis on Jesus here?

continue diverting attention meanwhile I have address that scripture in another post. Where it is a false accusations against the Jews and your allah curses them for something assumed to be said by a minority sect.

Anuway

You still did not answer the two questions

Will you say that the verse accuses anyone of taking the Messiah as lord?

Is the understanding of this verse not saying that there is only one God who is Lord and the Messiah who is also Lord, but the rest should not be taken as Lords?

AntiChristian:
Jesus of the Qur'an is a slave of Allah!

Jesus of the Bible is assumed to be God in human form, one of trinity!

So i think they are different in many ways and similar in some ways or let's say the Biblical Jesus was exageratted!

can you assume you are also saying that other prophets like Muhammad were not slaves of Allah and Jesus was the sole slave of Allah?

And based on your own understanding of the Jesus in the Bible you are saying they are different. Simple right.

Personally I think you should stick with the Jesus of your Quran that you believe isn't exaggerated, because unlike your personal thought the Jesus of the Bible was the prophet spoken of by Moses, confirmed by John the baptist, by the voice of God, by miracles and declared to be the son of God by resurrection and ascension.
Is the exaggeration that God raised him from the death of which one? Or that God anointed him and he started preaching and doing miracles, frankly it's okay if you do not find a baby taking and a child bringing clay to life and exaggeration because it's your own personal thought.

So pls answer is Muhammad a slave or not?

TenQ:
Mr JimRohn,
According to Allah, who is ISA?
Since ISA is a prophet, who was he sent to?
What is the meaning of his name?


Very simple questions that should be backed up with the Qur'an of Allah!

the meaning of his name, thank you tenq your head is there 🥂.

Jimrohn quit your long-winded responses and tell us what is the meaning of Isa, Jesus.

JimRohn:
Let’s deal with your latest display of intellectual hopscotch and shifting goalposts.

First of all, CreativeOrbit and AntiChristian have already addressed your previous points — multiple times — with clarity, but you conveniently ignore what doesn't serve your bias, only to repackage it in slightly different words as if you’re saying something new. That’s not curiosity. That’s willful blindness and rhetorical evasion.

1. “Did the basis for salvation change?”

No — the standard for salvation in Islam has always been the same: Submission to the will of God, through the revelation He provided at the time. You’re trying to create a contradiction that doesn’t exist.

In pre-Islamic times, people were judged based on the truth they received — whether it was the Torah, the Gospel (before distortion), or innate monotheism (fitrah). After the Qur’an was revealed and completed, it became the final and preserved standard. That’s not a shift — that’s progressive revelation, a concept even the Bible acknowledges, unless you plan to argue that Moses and Jesus brought identical legal and spiritual teachings.

And to your next hypothetical:

> “What if someone is righteous and didn’t receive any truth?”

Islam already addressed that. The Prophet Muhammad explicitly said that people who never received the message will be tested by God in a fair way on the Day of Judgment. No one is condemned for ignorance — but no one gets a free pass for rejecting truth once it's clearly delivered either. So spare us the fake moral dilemma.

2. “You may notice I’m ignoring areas you are ignorant about…”

How noble of you to admit to cherry-picking what you want to address. You accuse others of ignorance, but won't engage their actual arguments or citations. That’s not a theological stance — that’s intellectual cowardice.

If you truly think Paul’s letters define Christian truth, you’ve already abandoned what Jesus taught. Paul made contradictions to Jesus on salvation (e.g., faith vs. law), the nature of God, and even ethics. So it’s ironic you now ask:

> “Do Muslims believe and practice what Jesus taught?”

Let’s flip that on you:
Do YOU? Or have you buried Jesus' teachings under a pile of Pauline reinterpretations, Church councils, and creeds Jesus never uttered?

3. “Do Muslims follow Jesus' teachings?”

Yes — more than modern Christians do.

Jesus taught monotheism? So do Muslims.

Jesus prayed to God with his face to the ground? Muslims still do.

Jesus fasted? Muslims fast an entire month.

Jesus forbade worshiping him as God? Muslims obey that too.

Jesus called people to obedience, charity, humility, and prayer? These are pillars in Islam.

In contrast, your theology promotes worship of Jesus, dismisses the law, and relies on Paul's words more than Christ's actual sayings.

So no — you don’t get to ask, “Do you follow Jesus?” when your entire faith structure stands on rejecting what Jesus lived and taught.

Summary:

Don’t pretend to be the gatekeeper of truth when your own position is riddled with inconsistency. If you want to talk theology, bring arguments, not arrogance — and at least do the courtesy of acknowledging when your questions have already been answered.

Until then, stop running in circles and acting like no one sees it.

TenQ gohf AntiChristian CreativeOrbit

Lol I almost missed this one 😂😆

Well I refer the rubberband game, as unlike you Jim who may probably wears skirts and loves to jump loops and squares. I can respect that about you 😊 but not your personal bias evaluation about others nor expect you to be object after reading a few of your responses.

You make baseless accusations without stating any proof nor references, do you think people are that gullible or are you calling those who read your post gullible?

Here is my question that proves your intellectual dishonesty in strawmaning it
"it seems that the basis for salvation changed according to what you are writing. Are you saying that after the Quran was completed people are judged not more on their righteousness but based on the truth they received? So what if someone is righteous and didn't receive any truth?" Which was directed to creativeorbit to access his reasoning for making a statement.

But you

You are speaking from both sides of your mouth, creativeorbit wrote: "The Quran acknowledges that salvation is open to righteous Jews, Christians, and Sabians before the message of Islam was completed"

So the Quran acknowledges that before it's Islam message was completed there was a different basis for salvation but you are coming here thinking you are a wise guy, speaking about clarity, bias, shifting posts, willful blindness whereas darkness is thy sight and ignorance thy bliss.

You want me to evade, infact you should beg me to evade your contradictions.

You wrote NO, the basis doesn't change and that I am trying to create a contradiction where none exists. That's poor vocabulary handling when you don't understand the basis of what was written which was an acknowledgement of what occured before the Quran which is different from what happens after, but then you say NO it doesn't change, and still write that, "through the revelation He provided AT THE TIME." This is purely a fallacy of inconsistency..

Something that doesn't change, does not depend upon on what will be revealed at the time or any time.

Your response is inconsistent because your assumption is basing that while the revelation at a time can constitute a change the basis of salvation remain the same, so you said no, it doesn't change. Let me strongman it a bit by stating this is only possible when the change isn't related to salvation.
That's if you even understand your own logic but
This should be logical for you to understand, should it not


But your so called explanation of it and some of your inference, is a non sequitur, that it is not a shift but progressive revelation, trying to rope the bible into it and suggest I plan to argue that Moses and Jesus brought identical legal and spiritual teachings. Are you suggesting they brought different teachings and that you understand their teachings? If a revelation as a time doesn't follow previous revelation then it is a shift, a massive shift

While Ignoring your fallacious and illogical statement, those who know their bible know that the basis of salvation spoken by Moses and the prophets all point to the Messiah's fulfillment of it, and that is why those scriptures were used to teach the same salvation and fulfillment that Jesus taught, making it coherent and in agreement. Now back to our discuss. This is what progression is, you see the connection that shows God doesn't lie, what he said in the beginning he will do, he doesn't change his word.

Saying that people are saved based on the truth they received accommodates a thought that several diverging truths exist but they are not contradictory to one another but in reality that assumption is not true. The one consistent truth from the bible you tried to rope in is, salvation is from God and for the righteous. And the one means God promised from the beginning in Genesis to the prophets is concerning the Messiah. But quran isn't progressive as you claim because there is no continuation from the divine revelations written from the Torah that agrees with the basis in the Quran which seems to contain subtle changes, contradiction and assertions of being the sole and final truth, which points more to a shift than a progression. If you indeed can tell the difference between the two.

Unlike you creativeorbit was preferable right to suggest God judged people based on their righteousness and not truths like you put it. You sound more Christian who claims knowing something is what justfies them.

So to you it is fake moral dilemma because you lack empathy to reason with other people's plight. Because you may not know the consequences of those statement.

Just like being ignorant of what Paul wrote, because Paul stated clearly the laws he spoke about which doesn't save anyone, and that wasn't in reference to the 10 commandments Jesus taught, none the perfect laws of love taught by the first church, it apostles and James, which Paul himself taught and practiced. But then again
That's why I said I was ignoring the ignorance but claiming it is cherry picking is either you are hungry for cherries or have afaxia (improperly spelt purposely) if so 😞😞

Look, the question you cannot answer and instead flipping it, let me answer you yes I obey the teachings of Jesus to love God and love my neighbors, and even my enemies instead of trying to hurt them as well and justify myself. Instead of being a hypocrite and judging others by standards I do not want to be judged by. Instead of lying to myself and others, and having the fruit of repentance and the spirit of God.


Well, can one whose righteousness is based on what they eat and drink truly obey and believe in Jesus?

My theology doesn't promote worship of Jesus as God as you divertly try to claim, it calls him lord just as your "perfect" Quran does. the difference is that while you think bowing your head to the ground and fasting a month makes you like Jesus, it doesn't because your heart can still be far from God. You can do all that and still be wicked to others, you can pray and fast and not obey God. It shows that your understanding of the gospel of Jesus is shallow and based on perfunctory duties. Even though you mentioned charity I doubt you understood the intent or message from Jesus concerning it as your focus flew past that point.

You lack understanding of Paul's word concerning love and Jesus command concerning love but you claim that their teaching dismisses the law. What is the purpose of the law, to hurt others? Or to show them love, to care, to forgive? Yet it dismisses the misinterpretations of the law that gives you a so called right to hurt and hate others in the name of religion and act in pride and selfishness. be merciful and have charity is that not the gospel you claimed is corrupted, because it goes against most of the laws and sacrifices Islam teaches?

So while you think you get to define what others should ask because you are uncomfortable with their questions, will you instead condemn a person than help them understand?,

O “Do you follow Jesus?” it's a simple question yet it provokes you, why?. You accuse people of rejecting what Jesus taught when the only thing you think you know he taught is that there is only one God. Did Jesus not teach love? Did he not teach the way to eternal life?

Even the prophets in Torah said God doesn't delight in the blood of animals, yet what do you say. Jesus said God desires mercy and not sacrifice yet what do you say. I do not get to ask you, why? because you are above being asked?

I do not care what you claim to see, circles or not, if you stopped jumping you won't be dizzy and maybe you would see clearly instead of acting like you are right because you think others are wrong. Look at yourself did you bring arguments and not arrogance, was it a debate of oh the bible is more right than you. Your insecurity lead you in your response so do not blame others for that. And stop expecting to receive any courtesy towards fallacy, I don't need to be gatekeeper of any truth to acknowledge what is true and what is inconsistent.


The question once again was do you obey Jesus and not do you worship Jesus, I do not care of your personal offense towards others and their theology if you cannot focus on the conversation and reply appropriately then leave the conversation.

Why can't you say you follow Jesus if it is true, judging if others follow him or not does that make you a follower of Jesus? Is condemning others what makes you a follower of Jesus?

2. “Do you honor Muhammad more than Jesus?”

We honor both, but we worship neither — that’s the difference between Islam and Christianity.

a university graduate who faced exams would realize that you failed this question. The question isn't if you honor them or not, but if you honor one more than the other. Jimrohn, do you realize how you have failed here. No one is asking you about Christianity, but you can't answer an Islamic question without referencing another religion. Is the basis of Islam Christianity? You would say no, but it shows you can't address a question without making such references even while not even understanding the question in the first place.

Jesus is one of the five greatest prophets in Islam. But Muhammad ﷺ is the final messenger — the one through whom the last and complete revelation was delivered. That doesn’t reduce the honor of Jesus — it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood based on their roles. If you think honor equals divinity, that’s a problem with your theology, not ours.

now if it's a revelation to complete what God has been revealing, surely you should know the revelations from the beginning as well as the gospel and the final revelation, can you claim to be ignorant of other parts and still claim to have the whole because you have the final piece.

Now you look at yourself saying it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood, which means one is greater than the other if you indeed were genuinely saying that it wasn't to reduce the honor of Jesus it's either you are stating he never had such honor or that hierarchy is just a mere number to how they came and not how they should be evaluated and honored. So your simple answer should have been yes we honor Muhammad above Jesus then followed by this explanation as to why that this. Franky it's your own problem if you assume someone's else makes a fallacy of claiming honor equals divinity. You are addressing someone without respectfully first enquiring of their theological believes. You can't answer questions properly because you are treating it like warfare which is sad and appalling.

3. “Adam was forgiven but cast out — so what was the point of forgiveness?”

Your confusion comes from treating God's forgiveness like a “reset button.” Being forgiven doesn’t erase all consequences — it removes the spiritual penalty, not the worldly effect.

Adam was forgiven — yes — but paradise was never meant to be his eternal home at that point. Earth was always the plan. His fall was not “original sin,” it was a mistake followed by repentance and elevation. Islam rejects the idea that all of mankind is born sinful because of Adam’s mistake — a toxic doctrine that paints God as unjust and man as inherently damned.

okay so if Adam's sin was not the first and original sin, who or what was the first sin based on Islam and the Quran?

I understand what you have written that Islam rejects the idea that all mankind is born sinful, but can you tell us why sins and falls into temptations if according to you man lacks a sinful nature?

Okay, you said elevation, so tell us elevation in what sense?

And another question which you can ignore since it wasn't you who said it, but apparently the Quran or Islam says Allah will throw all into hell, that should include Adam whom he has forgiven right?

4. “Aisha’s age: 9 or older?”

Aisha's age is used obsessively by Islamophobes who don’t care about context, history, or scholarship. Yes, some hadith report she was 9 at consummation — and these are found in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim, considered strong sources. However, classical and modern scholars have pointed to other evidence (like her involvement in battles, historical gaps, or statements by her relatives) that suggest a higher age.

But let’s get brutally honest: None of this was controversial until Western morality began to falsely universalize modern standards. In her society, this was normal, dignified, and unchallenged. You don’t get to retroactively impose your lens on 7th century Arabia while ignoring far worse age gaps in Christian Europe’s royal marriages.

And unless you’re ready to apply that same outrage to Solomon, David, or even Mary’s “engagement” to Joseph in your own religious texts, maybe sit this one out.

telling me to sit it out is pathetic. I personally do not care how old she was. Our Nigerian great grandfather's may have done same, but you had to pathetically do the same thing hypothetices do to Aisha to Mary as well just o justify what exactly. A level headed person would choose to understand how she could have been way older than some claim, it's funny that the Bible doesn't even mention the ages of women or wives but no way you calculate it and claim Mary was preteen.

5. “Did Jesus fail his assignment?”

This is pure ignorance — and no, Muslims do not believe Jesus failed. We believe his mission was interrupted, not failed. His return is part of completing that mission — not bringing new revelation, but affirming Islam, breaking the cross, and killing the false messiah (Dajjal).

Anyone who says “Jesus failed” is either misrepresenting Islam, or parroting half-baked statements. The failure lies in what people did with his message, not the message itself.

speak for yourself as you claimed some of you are purely ignorant, which I agree. Now based on your own view of his mission being interrupted clear to clarify how you came about that understanding? Is it because he left and is coming back?
So can we say that he succeeded his mission before he left, and you could also tell us what his mission from God was?

6. “Why did God create man according to the Qur’an?”

This one’s easy. Qur’an 51:56 —

> “And I did not create jinn and mankind except to worship Me.”

We were created for submission, worship, and moral responsibility — not to “fall” and then beg for salvation based on inherited sin. We’re here to prove ourselves, to be tested, and to return to our Creator.

You want a purpose? That’s it: Know God, submit to Him, live morally, die with faith.

lol you could have simply answered to worship God. But seeing how enthusiastic you are, why not tell us how God revealed that purpose to the first man, through Jesus and through Muhammad and tell us what does worship God mean, what does it mean to worship God.

7. “Why did God send Jesus?”

Because God sent prophets to every nation (Qur’an 16:36). Jesus was sent to the Children of Israel, as a reformer and a prophet, confirming the Torah and bringing the Injil. That’s Qur’an 3:49 and 61:6.

He was never sent to be crucified for sins he didn’t commit. He wasn’t sent to change God's law or start a new religion. He came to call his people to repentance and monotheism. Period.

Closing Note:

You claim to be asking out of ignorance, but the way your questions are framed shows loaded assumptions, subtle insults, and cherry-picked controversies. If you're sincere, fix your tone, read a Qur’an for once, and stop relying on internet polemics.

If you want truth, seek it. If you want to argue, be ready for the weight of a 1400-year-old religion with answers sharper than your questions.
CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

You could have focused on the Quran and even quote the verses you mentioned. Anyway
Quran 16:36
For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), “Serve Allah, and eschew Evil”: of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).

So this verse is saying a messenger, are you saying this messenger is Jesus based on the context of your answer? Yes or no?
If you say no, then does it mean messengers are sent from every nation, how does this line up with the final messenger when well there are new nations and no more messengers?

Quran 3:49
And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.

Now this verse doesn't state that he is only a messenger to the children of Israel.

Can we say that Muhammad was only a messenger to the middle east and people he spoke to?


Pardon me to add verse 50
And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.

Here isa, Jesus, clearly obey me. The question now is, the Muslims the disciples obeyed him, do you Muslims obey Jesus?

I don't see where it is written that you should disobey Jesus or that he is sent only to Israel or that because he is sent to Israel you should disobey him.

Quite frankly, if Allah could teach Jesus the Torah, there is no excuse for Muhammad not knowing the Torah and the gospel which are supposedly before the Quran.

Okay, the next verse you quoted Quran 61:6
And call to mind when Jesus, son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel, I am Allah’s Messenger to you, I verify the Torah which has come before me, and I give you the glad tiding of a Messenger who shall come after me, his name being Ahmad.” Yet when he came to them with Clear Signs they said: “This is sheer trickery.”

This is amazing. Jesus says I give you the gospel of a messenger to come, his name is Ahmad.

Now if I am to assume the Ahmad is Muhammad and that Jesus is either calling him the gospel that is to come or that he is given them the glad tidings that Muhammad would also bring.

It still begs to be answer, the question what is the gospel preached and taught by Muhammad, what is the good news from the Quran?

2. “Do you honor Muhammad more than Jesus?”

We honor both, but we worship neither — that’s the difference between Islam and Christianity.

jimrohn a university graduate who faced exams would realize that you failed this question. The question isn't if you honor them or not, but if you honor one more than the other. Jimrohn, do you realize how you have failed here. No one is asking you about Christianity, but you can't answer an Islamic question without referencing another religion. Is the basis of Islam Christianity? You would say no, but it shows you can't address a question without making such references even while not even understanding the question in the first place.

Jesus is one of the five greatest prophets in Islam. But Muhammad ﷺ is the final messenger — the one through whom the last and complete revelation was delivered. That doesn’t reduce the honor of Jesus — it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood based on their roles. If you think honor equals divinity, that’s a problem with your theology, not ours.

now if it's a revelation to complete what God has been revealing, surely you should know the revelations from the beginning as well as the gospel and the final revelation, can you claim to be ignorant of other parts and still claim to have the whole because you have the final piece.

Now you look at yourself saying it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood, which means one is greater than the other if you indeed were genuinely saying that it wasn't to reduce the honor of Jesus it's either you are stating he never had such honor or that hierarchy is just a mere number to how they came and not how they should be evaluated and honored. So your simple answer should have been yes we honor Muhammad above Jesus then followed by this explanation as to why that this. Franky it's your own problem if you assume someone's else makes a fallacy of claiming honor equals divinity. You are addressing someone without respectfully first enquiring of their theological believes. You can't answer questions properly because you are treating it like warfare which is sad and appalling.

3. “Adam was forgiven but cast out — so what was the point of forgiveness?”

Your confusion comes from treating God's forgiveness like a “reset button.” Being forgiven doesn’t erase all consequences — it removes the spiritual penalty, not the worldly effect.

Adam was forgiven — yes — but paradise was never meant to be his eternal home at that point. Earth was always the plan. His fall was not “original sin,” it was a mistake followed by repentance and elevation. Islam rejects the idea that all of mankind is born sinful because of Adam’s mistake — a toxic doctrine that paints God as unjust and man as inherently damned.

okay so if Adam's sin was not the first and original sin, who or what was the first sin based on Islam and the Quran?

I understand what you have written that Islam rejects the idea that all mankind is born sinful, but can you tell us why sins and falls into temptations if according to you man lacks a sinful nature?

Okay, you said elevation, so tell us elevation in what sense?

And another question which you can ignore since it wasn't you who said it, but apparently the Quran or Islam says Allah will throw all into hell, that should include Adam whom he has forgiven right?

4. “Aisha’s age: 9 or older?”

Aisha's age is used obsessively by Islamophobes who don’t care about context, history, or scholarship. Yes, some hadith report she was 9 at consummation — and these are found in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim, considered strong sources. However, classical and modern scholars have pointed to other evidence (like her involvement in battles, historical gaps, or statements by her relatives) that suggest a higher age.

But let’s get brutally honest: None of this was controversial until Western morality began to falsely universalize modern standards. In her society, this was normal, dignified, and unchallenged. You don’t get to retroactively impose your lens on 7th century Arabia while ignoring far worse age gaps in Christian Europe’s royal marriages.

And unless you’re ready to apply that same outrage to Solomon, David, or even Mary’s “engagement” to Joseph in your own religious texts, maybe sit this one out.

telling me to sit it out is pathetic. I personally do not care how old she was. Our Nigerian great grandfather's may have done same, but you had to pathetically do the same thing hypothetices do to Aisha to Mary as well just o justify what exactly. A level headed person would choose to understand how she could have been way older than some claim, it's funny that the Bible doesn't even mention the ages of women or wives but no way you calculate it and claim Mary was preteen.

5. “Did Jesus fail his assignment?”

This is pure ignorance — and no, Muslims do not believe Jesus failed. We believe his mission was interrupted, not failed. His return is part of completing that mission — not bringing new revelation, but affirming Islam, breaking the cross, and killing the false messiah (Dajjal).

Anyone who says “Jesus failed” is either misrepresenting Islam, or parroting half-baked statements. The failure lies in what people did with his message, not the message itself.

speak for yourself as you claimed some of you are purely ignorant, which I agree. Now based on your own view of his mission being interrupted clear to clarify how you came about that understanding? Is it because he left and is coming back?
So can we say that he succeeded his mission before he left, and you could also tell us what his mission from God was?

6. “Why did God create man according to the Qur’an?”

This one’s easy. Qur’an 51:56 —

> “And I did not create jinn and mankind except to worship Me.”

We were created for submission, worship, and moral responsibility — not to “fall” and then beg for salvation based on inherited sin. We’re here to prove ourselves, to be tested, and to return to our Creator.

You want a purpose? That’s it: Know God, submit to Him, live morally, die with faith.

lol you could have simply answered to worship God. But seeing how enthusiastic you are, why not tell us how God revealed that purpose to the first man, through Jesus and through Muhammad and tell us what does worship God mean, what does it mean to worship God.

7. “Why did God send Jesus?”

Because God sent prophets to every nation (Qur’an 16:36). Jesus was sent to the Children of Israel, as a reformer and a prophet, confirming the Torah and bringing the Injil. That’s Qur’an 3:49 and 61:6.

He was never sent to be crucified for sins he didn’t commit. He wasn’t sent to change God's law or start a new religion. He came to call his people to repentance and monotheism. Period.

Closing Note:

You claim to be asking out of ignorance, but the way your questions are framed shows loaded assumptions, subtle insults, and cherry-picked controversies. If you're sincere, fix your tone, read a Qur’an for once, and stop relying on internet polemics.

If you want truth, seek it. If you want to argue, be ready for the weight of a 1400-year-old religion with answers sharper than your questions.
CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

You could have focused on the Quran and even quote the verses you mentioned. Anyway
Quran 16:36
For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), “Serve Allah, and eschew Evil”: of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).

So this verse is saying a messenger, are you saying this messenger is Jesus based on the context of your answer? Yes or no?
If you say no, then does it mean messengers are sent from every nation, how does this line up with the final messenger when well there are new nations and no more messengers?

Quran 3:49
And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.

Now this verse doesn't state that he is only a messenger to the children of Israel.

Can we say that Muhammad was only a messenger to the middle east and people he spoke to?


Pardon me to add verse 50
And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.

Here isa, Jesus, clearly obey me. The question now is, the Muslims the disciples obeyed him, do you Muslims obey Jesus?

I don't see where it is written that you should disobey Jesus or that he is sent only to Israel or that because he is sent to Israel you should disobey him.

Quite frankly, if Allah could teach Jesus the Torah, there is no excuse for Muhammad not knowing the Torah and the gospel which are supposedly before the Quran.

Okay, the next verse you quoted Quran 61:6
And call to mind when Jesus, son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel, I am Allah’s Messenger to you, I verify the Torah which has come before me, and I give you the glad tiding of a Messenger who shall come after me, his name being Ahmad.” Yet when he came to them with Clear Signs they said: “This is sheer trickery.”

This is amazing. Jesus says I give you the gospel of a messenger to come, his name is Ahmad.

Now if I am to assume the Ahmad is Muhammad and that Jesus is either calling him the gospel that is to come or that he is given them the glad tidings that Muhammad would also bring.

It still begs to be answer, the question what is the gospel preached and taught by Muhammad, what is the good news from the Quran?

JimRohn:
If you’re genuinely seeking truth, then start by respecting the subject you’re asking about. Don’t come cloaked in fake humility asking for “love and understanding” while repeating overused polemics and ignorant misrepresentations. Let’s tear through your list with logic and without fluff.

but you here clearly come with accusations and strife in other not to explain and build up but to tear down. I would say it's good you are stating you intent early but you could do without the bias justification for it

1. “What was the message of Jesus the Messiah?”

Let’s correct this from the jump: Yes, Muslims believe Jesus (`Isa), peace be upon him, is the Messiah. But not the messiah in the distorted, church-invented version you were spoon-fed.

there was no need for correction the basis of the question focusing on the Islamic Jesus which has you have clearly put is different from the distorted version so I believe it's either like others you claim there are some truths in their version as it is distorted and you are aware of the what exactly was distorted for you to make such claims against them.

His real message was the same as every prophet before and after him: pure monotheism — worship one God and obey His commands. The Injil (Gospel) that was revealed to him was a divine scripture, not the four gospels written decades after him. His mission was not to be worshipped, but to call people back to the Law of God (Matthew 5:17 echoes that, ironically).

now if as you claim this prophet Jesus gave the same message as every other prophets, then that means Muhammed gave the same message as well, or is Muhammeds message different from every other prophet?
If yes, then is it possible a lie or are you saying that prophets get different messages then therefore the injil has more messages other than the simplified, there is only one God.

If no, Muhammad did bring a different message, then the question still is, what message of the gospel did Muhammad teach?

Now when you speak about obeying his commands, what did Jesus reveal are the commands of God and what did Muhammad reveal are the commands of God.

I see that you have quoted from a distorted text which you said isn't the gospel given to Jesus, the truly ironic thing, with proof, is that you have clearly distorted the verse you quoted. Without adding any other verse nor explaining it, this is what Matt.5.17 says "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Can you explain your intention in distorting this verse and clearly tell us how you came about that Jesus was telling people to go back to the laws of Moses. Also explain to us what it means by Jesus fulfilling the said laws.

So no — Muhammad didn't “preach Jesus’ gospel” because Jesus’ original gospel was the same essence as the Qur’an: La ilaha illa Allah (There is no god but Allah).
CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

please explain how the gospel and Quran are the same essence but different as you are saying Muhammad didn't preach Jesus's original gospel which is the same essence as the Quran that he preach? Same essence but he preached something different, explain?

honesttalk21:
The question is where did these demons come from?

Is Satan a demon or head demon?

According to your Bible was he an angel?

Did he have a following amongst the angels that rebelled against almighty God with him

this isn't an answer to the question

Do you Muslims believe that Gabriel or Jubril impregnated Mary?

When we say you people don't answer questions people like jimrohn will come with their rhetoric verbosity to claim otherwise, so please answer the question.

AntiChristian:
Tell us about the justifications of the biblical Jihads of Jacob, Samson, Moses, Joshua and Saul with the help of YHVH?

so you are saying that Jacob, Samson, Moses, Joshua and Saul killed people so as not to be dominated and oppressed by them?

2. “No one said Muhammad is another Messiah or a replacement Christ.”

Exactly — because no Muslim ever claimed that Muhammad was a Messiah. You’re attacking a straw man here. Muhammad was the final prophet, not a "Messiah." Islam recognizes only one Messiah — Jesus (`Isa), son of Mary — and yet this Messiah, in Islamic belief, is not divine, not crucified, and not the savior of sins. Instead, he is a prophet who will return, fulfill specific roles, and die a natural death. None of this conflicts with Muhammad’s status as the Seal of the Prophets.

you don't even know the difference between when a person is strongman-ing a point yet you are accusing someone of strawmaning when that's exactly what you are doing. Yet you state things that don't contradict nor show how I strawmaned anything other than you admitting to what I wrote. Making this number 2 useless expect you are answering a question of it Muhammed is a Messiah, if not we can agree what you are simply saying is that Jesus is Messiah, Muhammad is seal of prophets, that's a statement not an explanation that addresses the question.

3. “I want a clear explanation as to how Muhammad is the last prophet and not claims or declarations.”

First, it's disingenuous to dismiss theological explanation as "claims or declarations" just because you don’t like the answer. You’re demanding metaphysical truth while selectively applying standards of evidence. So here’s your clear explanation:

The concept of finality in prophethood is inherent in the Islamic theological framework. The Qur’an (33:40) explicitly states:
“Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets.”
The term Khatam an-Nabiyyin (Seal of the Prophets) is unequivocal and has been understood consistently by scholars — Sunni and Shia alike — for over 1400 years as finality, not continuation.

just look at yourself, you claimed it is disingenuous to dismiss theological "explanation" as declarations and statements, meanwhile you are clearly making a statement from the Quran without an explicit explanation to it and you want us to aspect that as a theological explanation. Then when we quote a statement from Quran the basis changes where you cannot accept the statement as self explanatory.


So instead of accusing me of demanding metaphorical truth, why not readers your response with explanations instead of disgressing into question analysis and stating that your explanation is inherent and claim that as an explanation which shows you do lack understanding even though you can use a bunch of words verbosely.

Historically, no prophet after Muhammad has emerged whose claim to prophethood has withstood scrutiny or received validation by divine signs — in contrast to the centuries-long legacy of validation for prophets from Adam to Jesus.

what was the scrunity that Muhammed faced and passed? And who established that scrunity and when was it set up to verify prophethood?

What were the valid signs that proves Muhammed's prophethood? And how is it in contrast? Or is that a wrong term used there?

If you're seeking a "scientific" or empirical demonstration of Muhammad's finality, you're fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of religious claims — especially ones rooted in revelation.

forget whatever you keep assuming I seek and answer us this, what revelation spoke before hand of the finality of prophethood ending with Muhammad? It has to be Jewish/hebrew and I would even permit if there's any arabic foretelling of such.

Summary:
You’re not asking to understand. You’re asking to entrap, assuming Muslims have no theological depth or consistency. But the reality is: your objections have been addressed, publicly and repeatedly. Repeating your questions doesn’t expose Islam’s weakness — it exposes your unwillingness to engage with the answers.

Now either deal with the answers you’ve been given, or stop pretending the question remains open.

look the fact that you assume or see my questions has a trap already makes you unable to answer them genuinely, even without looking in depth into you, my responding and engaging not just with other but to this post already shows that you are subjective in your analysis and reasoning and shows my willingness to engage with the answers by reaffirming the basis of my questions and neglecting obviously disgressions and statements given in place of explanations.

If you do not realize that you typed a whole lot and instead of clearly explaining things to those who will read you wasted your time trying to trying to discredit me and the questions asked. It shows more about your inability to explain what you believe than any so called attempt to expose any weakness.

You stating that means Islam indeed those have weaknesses, and your response as more than I could in exposing them.

Jimrohn it was long so I had to cut it and respond not you wrote that it is perfectly clear that, let's read what you wrote

So to be perfectly clear:
Muhammad is not judged by Jesus. Jesus, when he returns, submits to the Sharia revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him). This isn’t conjecture. It’s explicit in Sahih Muslim, Hadith 155.

the problem is that you are not seeing that you are attributing the Quran not to Allah but to Muhammad. You would agree that you people say Allah is the giver of the Quran yes or no?

If yes, how is it perfectly clear that a messenger sent to Muslims isn't under the message nor the judgement of the message, you can explain is Muhammad above the ruling of the Quran?

What you’re asking is akin to asking, “Will Einstein submit to Newton because they both talked about gravity?” It’s a category error born of ignorance or stubborn refusal to engage with the subject honestly.

😂 😂 this is logical fallacy, a non sequitur, basically a syllogistic fallacy.

I will address the rest later

JimRohn:
Let’s cut through the tired cycle of repetition and move straight to the point. You’ve asked a question that has already been addressed — repeatedly — by CreativeOrbit, AntiChristian, and many others, but it seems like your tactic is to ignore answers that don’t fit your narrative, then pretend the question remains unanswered. That’s intellectual dishonesty, not genuine inquiry.

lol I did not ignore their answers if you understood the discuss and kept track of it, you would realize that I asked them to explain which they failed to do and even ignored. If you tell me the sun is white and I ask you to explain to me why it looks yellow and you say it is white, is that me ignoring the answer or questioning the logic behind such an answer. Or are you expecting me to believe and accept whatever you all respond as an answer to my query?

1. “Will Muhammad submit to the judgment of Jesus the Messiah?”

This question betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of Islamic eschatology, or perhaps a deliberate misrepresentation. The Islamic tradition does not place Jesus as judge over Muhammad, nor does it need to. In Islam, Jesus (`Isa) returns not as a new lawgiver, but as a follower of the final revelation — the Qur’an. And yes, the same Jesus you speak of will rule by the law given to Muhammad — not the other way around.

just look at yourself, instead of answering the question, you are analyzing the question to strawman it, isn't that, in your words, intellectual dishonesty?
First off, I NEVER ASKED nor mentioned anything about Jesus coming as a new lawgiver. The question now is, where did you get the justification to deviate from what I asked and insinuate a betrayal or a deliberate misinterpretion if you are not making baseless accusations to an obviously simple question?

One who is wise and has understanding would have realize where and when I asked, based on Jesus using the Quran to judge would Muhammad follow him. Can't keep repeating the same logical question based on your fellows interpretation and have you here call it a misunderstanding of Islamic eschatology, blame it on those who brought about the misunderstanding and leave the innocent question alone if you cannot understand nor answer it.

Now Jesus who will rule by the law given to Muhammad, will Muhammad submit to Jesus ruling, based on what you have said? You can twist and avoid the question but it should be simple enough for you to answer.

Let me add this as well, Jesus following the Quran does that make him a follower of Muhammad who was used to bring the Quran or a follower of Allah.

This thing should be simple enough, Allah sends Muhammad with a message then appoints someone else to judge with that message. Are you saying Muhammad is equal to Allah or above the one who will judge others with the Quran?



TenQ gohf AntiChristian CreativeOrbit

honesttalk21:
The same diarrhea or what? Rather than spewing your vomit why not tell how my summation that fallen angels are demons? You do not have the capacity for that?


Luke 8:2 "and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out"

Matt 8:28-28
When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.

29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?

Mr know it all or too much tenq please tell what the origin of demons is?
Maybe you can have gohf help if you're too lazy or incapable of doing the research yourself.

Does the creation story in the Bible address it? Quit the childish haughtiness and say.

none of the biblical verses you quoted highlight that fallen angels are demons.

Now I do not agree with everything narialtq states, some say fallen angels are demons and some say otherwise.

But I can pick one question from what he wrote and oblige you for an answer please. Do you Muslims believe that Gabriel or Jubril impregnated Mary?

AntiChristian:
You guys are simply dubious! How does this in any way mean Allah is calling Jesus lord?

This is a huge bunkum! A complete balderdash!

You ever wrote lord above in the verse then later changed it to Lord!

Well, if this is what you mean then lord has no meaning according to the context in the verse that you claim is laughable. Allah referred to jesus just as He did referred to those who worshipped idols!

I understand Elohim in the Bible can be used for your YHVH, satan, man, idols and Angels.

You did not answer the two questions

Will you say that the verse accuses anyone of taking the Messiah as Lord?

Is the understanding of this verse not saying that there is only one God who is Lord and the Messiah who is also Lord, but the rest should not be taken as Lords?

Blaming my autocorrect for changing lord to Lord, but both are the same but are different from LORD. It's still the same you that will pretend that I haven't clarified this for you a number of times.

AntiChristian:
Asking the same question in another way does not change it.

You'll still refuse to accept the truth!

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Are we from Israel?

And Jesus's dispensation had lapsed!

it's a question based on what you have said. Did you not say all who follow Allah are Muslims. Did you not say that israelites are Muslims.

Okay why not explain to us how it is true that Jesus who was sent to Muslims was not sent to you?

Are you saying because Jesus is not on earth his message to the Muslims is no more?

You asking are you from Israel when you said following Allah is not a racial thing, is confusing, either you redefine your interpretation of those who follow Allah and explain or you answer the question and explain.

Is not about refusing the truth but refusing lies.

Answer this as well, was Jesus sent to Muslims? Yes or no

Just know
If you say yes, then you are a Muslim
If you say no, and say to Israel then that means Israel were never Muslims and are different from muslims. Or explain in clear terms what you mean.

AntiChristian:
The biblical Jesus call his God father. "My father and your father, my God and your God". I think you know that verse too. That's your biblical exaggerations not Islam's. God, Allah has no son in Jesus or other humans.

are you saying that the Jesus of the Quran and the Jesus of the Bible are two different persons?

TenQ:
Don't mind them.

Since they removed the swearing to Islamic sections, I've noticed that. Initially I thought it was the Nairaland SpamBots until I saw that even screenshots were also deleted.

This can only only be humans behind the removals

this should be their biggest opportunity to win over heretics and atheists, but I am not sure they would be able to win over a level head person with basic logical reasoning with their contradictions which lead to more confusions that they are refusing to face. They should be seeing the benefits of being able to properly answer unbelievers and explain why they believe but their responses lack cognitive explanations.

TenQ:
Mr honesttalk21


I told you that two nights ago, at about 10pm, I arrested one Jinn and beat it black and blue. I asked it to kneel and raise up it's hand till about 4am when I finally released it to go because it was crying profusely and begging me. You will pity this Afreet when you see it.

BTW: I wanted to snap a picture of it to show you but my phone's battery died out


Why are you not responding, Do you disbelieve me?

😂

honesttalk21:
You really don't get it. There's some truth in the Bible and there are the untruths besides an explanation about fallen angels is best taken from the place where it's mentioned. You get?

okay why don't you state for us the things in the bible that you find as truths. It would also be interesting to note how you accept those ones as true.

TenQ:
This is Islamic Taqqiya (deception)

Jihad simply means holy war/struggle.
It is enjoined for Muslims to wage jihad on all non-muslims. Because in Islam, there are only two divides.
1. Dar al-Islam ("house or abode of Islam" or "house of peace": This refers to lands under Muslim rule where Islamic law (Sharia) prevails and Muslims live in peace and security. It includes both Muslims and non-Muslims (dhimmis) who are protected under Muslim governance.
2. Dar al-Harb ("house or abode of war": This denotes lands not under Muslim rule or Sharia law, considered enemy territories where, classically, a state of conflict or war could exist until they accept Muslim sovereignty or peace treaties.

Muslims should kill idolaters if they refuse to become Muslims. They don't have a choice

Christians and Jews must convert to Islam or pay the Jizyah (humiliation tax) and live as a second class citizen if they will not convert to Islam.

This is Jihad as defined by Allah even though modern Muslims will want to redefine Jihad to mean means "struggle" or "striving" in the path of Allah and it is defined as encompasses multiple dimensions such as struggle (establishing Islam) with a Muslim's Wealth, Money, Position , Verbal, Intellectual and real warfare.

Qur'an 9:41
So go out, no matter whether you are lightly or heavily armed, and struggle in God’s way with your possessions and your lives: this is better for you, if you only knew.

The hadiths also primarily define Jihad in terms of WAR and WARFARE!

Sir I can pick up a number of points from what you wrote

1. Some modern day Muslims are trying to change the meaning and interpretation of their own text.

This could mean that you are telling us that the original meaning and usage of this text, especially the term Jihad, is being redefine to mean something which it is not. If this is true couldn't there be a genuine intention to them correcting it's meaning and usage. Which could also state that they admit that they believe that their earlier practitioners of their texts were wrong.

2. Could we also infer that apart from it not fostering peace, there's a possibility that even if the war nature isn't popularly practice the intimidation and subtly discrimination is still in practice as a form of Jihad by those in power able to do so. As we can't be counting those unable to win a war nor rich enough, can we say that if Muslims are the ruling class, the wealthy they would enforce jihad or would they abolish it with their power

Expanse2020:
so you think Muslims are like Christianity who can't afford 20-30k chicken during the Christmas and easter...
Make them call ram 1M we will still buy am in plenty.....
Allah has make it easy for us
You don't look us through the Hajj..
This is an act in religion
Not a play..
Show us where your religion say you should kill chicken, is that not the reason most of you opt with Sardines fish on your fist day😂🤣🤣

what exactly is the use of the sacrifice to allah

Lol they will remove and block tire till they close down this thread

P1PrinceKT:
Even Animal can not innocently be killed talk less of human being. The only person that can be killed is who killed or help in killing Muslims not how terrorist used to raid a town and killed many innocent people.
You can as well go and search "what was was the reason of first Jihad in Islam".

so how do you prove that some helped in killing Muslims? Or is it by association?

P1PrinceKT:
Jihad has rule. And it was provided to prevent Muslim from other infidel's domination and oppression. What you're seeing now is not Jihad known my God. However, u can wide your knowledge.

Is this a justification for Jihad? Then those who practice and do it are they not right in getting rid of possible infidel domination and oppression, in their own way?

P1PrinceKT:
Jihad has rule. And it was provided to prevent Muslim from other infidel's domination and oppression. What you're seeing now is not Jihad known my God. However, u can wide your knowledge.

This is a response to someone's post that anything Jihad is evil, is this response supposed to be a form of justification for Jihad?

Tenq what's your take on this

honesttalk21:
Small wonders your ignorance leads to wreckless diarrhea and typically typing nonsense.

The idea that demons are actually fallen angels is strongly backed by Scripture, highlighting their rebellion against God and their connection to Satan.

For instance, in Isaiah 14:12-15, we witness Lucifer's fall as he tries to elevate himself above God, which marks the beginning of demonic forces.
Additionally, Revelation 12:7-9 illustrates a heavenly battle where Michael and his angels confront the dragon—Satan—who, along with his followers, is cast down to earth. This connection emphasizes their ongoing resistance to divine intentions.

Ephesians 6:12 further clarifies this conflict against spiritual evil, confirming that demons are indeed fallen angels standing against God's will.

it is interesting how you turn to the bible, the one that is corrupted to justify what's inside the Quran that is perfect

TenQ:
Here was the Original post several months ago



https://www.nairaland.com/8169188/man-comfortably-represent-satan-lying

ah several months ago was my first reaction but on reading it, I couldn't help but laugh and understand why honesttalk was provoked but has he answered how the demon was caught and tied and if it's something only that man could or others in Muslim do it as well

Read Quran 9:30
The Jews say: "Ezra ('Uzayr) is Allah's son,"29 and the Christians say: "The Messiah is the son of Allah." These are merely verbal assertions in imitation of the sayings of those unbelievers who preceded them.30 May Allah ruin them. How do they turn away from the Truth?

So I ask AI did the Jews really say that

No, Jews do not believe that Ezra was the son of God. The belief that Ezra was the son of God is mentioned in the Quran, but it's attributed to a small group of Jewish sects rather than the mainstream Jewish tradition.

It being attributed is more like an accusation than a generally accepted fact. Then the Quran records that it was unbelievers that taught Christians to say that Jesus is the son of God, well I do agree Jesus is not the son of Allah. 😁

So the problem isn't taking Jesus as Allah but saying that he is the son of Allah.

It's like saying well it's okay if you believe Jesus as long as you don't believe Jesus is the son of the living God.

I have a few debates with Arabic studied Muslims that speak English, and they ran away, the subject was being a child of God

AntiChristian:
You started a new thread, is it for two of you only?

I don't need to follow your lengthy argument to know your position!

Where did Allah call Jesus "Lord" or LORD or lord?

let me repeat it, Lord, Adoni is different from YHVH(LORD)

Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

This is from the At-Tawbah, which conveys a message directly from God to humanity.

Is the understanding of this verse not saying that there is only one God who is Lord and the Messiah who is also Lord, but the rest should not be taken as Lords?

The Messiah son of Mary is Jesus, whom it is written Allah and the Messiah.

Let's leave aside the possible accusation from that verse that the Jews were not commanded to worship one God, which is laughable. Will you say that the verse accuses anyone of taking the Messiah as Lord?

AntiChristian:
The question should not arise at all since Jesus has the demography he was sent to! He said he has his sheep given to him by his father in John 10:26-29. Since he wasn't sent to us then we have no business obeying him.

And the message of Jesus has been abrogated by the Qu'ran just as Jesus's message abrogates the Torah!

by his father, you mean the God, right? the one you call Allah who sent Jesus?

Okay you are quoting from the igneel the part you believe isn't corrupted right, let's look at it and see if you are correct that you have no business obeying Him, even if I do not disagree with you saying you are not one of his sheep anyway.

John 10
John.10.24 - The Jewish leaders surrounded him and asked, "How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."
John.10.25 - Jesus replied, "I have already told you, and you don't believe me. The proof is what I do in the name of my Father.
John.10.26 - But you don't believe me because you are not part of my flock.

Now you as a Muslim claim to believe in Jesus and say everyone who serves God is a Muslim. From this incorruptible statement by Jesus that those who do not believe Jesus as the Messiah are not part of his flock.. therefore we can also say that those who believe are part of his flock.

1. If you say you believe in Jesus and you are not part of his flock, then what are you?

What was the purpose of Jesus going to the flock, let's read
John.10.27 - My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John.10.28 - I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me.

2. If you believe Jesus is the Messiah do you follow and obey him?

3. Do you believe that Jesus came to give you eternal life, by God's authority?

This are simple questions from the part of the igneel that's not corrupted according to one of you.


Okay. Hmm

You are not using the word abrogate properly because Jesus did not do away with the Torah but fulfilled the promises contained in them, which was the very purpose of he Torah which also contained temporal laws and priesthood which is what was abrogated by God. So the message doesn't abrogate the Torah, it is good news speaking concerning the fulfillment contained in the Torah. So to say that the message of Jesus was done away with by the Quran you would have to explain to us, how and why that is?

If you are basing that the Quran did to the gospel what it did to the Torah, because you see it that the gospel is against the Torah and destroys it, so also the Quran does so. Or you agree and understand that to be incorrect and that the gospel is a fulfillment, so show us how the Quran fulfills and abrogates the gospel(which is the message of Jesus)?

Any Muslim can try and attempt these questions please.