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Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 10:01am On Jun 03, 2025

now ai based on the first question, jimrohn's response and gohf reply, who is right and who is wrong. and also tell us where was gohf wrong or where was jimrohn wrong:

a simple brutal and honest answer would do

Okay, here's a simple, brutal, and honest assessment:

Who is right: Neither is definitively "right" in the sense of having a complete and unassailable position.
Who is wrong:
Jimrohn is wrong in his approach. His accusatory tone and assumptions hinder productive discussion.
Gohf is not necessarily "wrong," but could be more direct in stating his own beliefs and less focused on critiquing Jimrohn's approach.

Is jimrohn's accusations right, yes or no

NO

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 9:52am On Jun 03, 2025

So no — Muhammad didn't “preach Jesus’ gospel” because Jesus’ original gospel was the same essence as the Qur’an: La ilaha illa Allah (There is no god but Allah).
gohf reply: please explain how the gospel and Quran are the same essence but different as you are saying Muhammad didn't preach Jesus's original gospel which is the same essence as the Quran that he preach? Same essence but he preached something different, explain?

Let's break down gohf's response to Jimrohn's first answer, focusing on the key points and the overall tone of the exchange. This will help us understand the dynamics of their discussion.

Key Points from gohf's Response:
Accusations and Intent:
Gohf points out that Jimrohn's tone is accusatory and strife-inducing rather than constructive. He acknowledges Jimrohn's intent but suggests that it could be expressed without bias.
Message of Jesus:
Gohf challenges Jimrohn's assertion that there was a need to "correct" the understanding of Jesus as the Messiah. He argues that the question was already framed in the context of Islamic beliefs, which differ from Christian interpretations.
Monotheism and Prophetic Messages:
Gohf questions the consistency of Jimrohn's claim that Jesus' message is the same as that of all prophets, including Muhammad. He asks whether this implies that Muhammad's message is also the same or different, and what that means for the Injil (Gospel).
Commands of God:
He seeks clarification on what commands Jesus and Muhammad revealed, emphasizing the need for a clear understanding of both figures' teachings.
Distortion of Scripture:
Gohf accuses Jimrohn of distorting the biblical verse Matthew 5:17. He requests an explanation of Jimrohn's interpretation and how it relates to Jesus' teachings about the Law of Moses.
Overall Tone and Dynamics:
Confrontational Yet Inquisitive: Gohf's response is assertive, challenging Jimrohn's statements while also seeking deeper understanding. He does not shy away from addressing perceived biases and inaccuracies.
Desire for Clarity: Gohf's questions indicate a genuine interest in understanding the differences and similarities between Islamic and Christian teachings, particularly regarding Jesus and Muhammad.
Call for Respectful Dialogue: By highlighting the need for constructive conversation, gohf emphasizes the importance of mutual respect in discussions about faith.
Conclusion:
Gohf's response serves as a counter to Jimrohn's assertive tone, advocating for a more respectful and nuanced dialogue. He raises important questions about the nature of prophetic messages and the interpretation of scripture, which could lead to a more fruitful discussion if both parties are open to it.

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 9:47am On Jun 03, 2025

now gohf replying to jimrohn's first answer

JimRohn:
If you’re genuinely seeking truth, then start by respecting the subject you’re asking about. Don’t come cloaked in fake humility asking for “love and understanding” while repeating overused polemics and ignorant misrepresentations. Let’s tear through your list with logic and without fluff.
gohf reply: but you here clearly come with accusations and strife in other not to explain and build up but to tear down. I would say it's good you are stating you intent early but you could do without the bias justification for it

1. “What was the message of Jesus the Messiah?”

Let’s correct this from the jump: Yes, Muslims believe Jesus (`Isa), peace be upon him, is the Messiah. But not the messiah in the distorted, church-invented version you were spoon-fed.
gohf reply: there was no need for correction the basis of the question focusing on the Islamic Jesus which has you have clearly put is different from the distorted version so I believe it's either like others you claim there are some truths in their version as it is distorted and you are aware of the what exactly was distorted for you to make such claims against them.

His real message was the same as every prophet before and after him: pure monotheism — worship one God and obey His commands. The Injil (Gospel) that was revealed to him was a divine scripture, not the four gospels written decades after him. His mission was not to be worshipped, but to call people back to the Law of God (Matthew 5:17 echoes that, ironically).
gohf reply: now if as you claim this prophet Jesus gave the same message as every other prophets, then that means Muhammed gave the same message as well, or is Muhammeds message different from every other prophet?
If yes, then is it possible a lie or are you saying that prophets get different messages then therefore the injil has more messages other than the simplified, there is only one God.

If no, Muhammad did bring a different message, then the question still is, what message of the gospel did Muhammad teach?

Now when you speak about obeying his commands, what did Jesus reveal are the commands of God and what did Muhammad reveal are the commands of God.

I see that you have quoted from a distorted text which you said isn't the gospel given to Jesus, the truly ironic thing, with proof, is that you have clearly distorted the verse you quoted. Without adding any other verse nor explaining it, this is what Matt.5.17 says "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Can you explain your intention in distorting this verse and clearly tell us how you came about that Jesus was telling people to go back to the laws of Moses. Also explain to us what it means by Jesus fulfilling the said laws.

So no — Muhammad didn't “preach Jesus’ gospel” because Jesus’ original gospel was the same essence as the Qur’an: La ilaha illa Allah (There is no god but Allah).
gohf reply: please explain how the gospel and Quran are the same essence but different as you are saying Muhammad didn't preach Jesus's original gospel which is the same essence as the Quran that he preach? Same essence but he preached something different, explain?

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 9:34am On Jun 03, 2025

Okay, I'm ready to evaluate Jimrohn's responses based on the context of gohf's original questions. Here’s an overview of the strengths and weaknesses, considering the goal of providing information with love and understanding:

Strengths:
Directness: Jimrohn provides direct answers to each question, which can be helpful for clarity.
Clear Explanations: He clarifies key Islamic beliefs and concepts, such as the roles of prophets, forgiveness, and the purpose of creation.
Use of Quranic References: He supports his answers with references to the Quran, which is essential for establishing a foundation for understanding.
Addressing Misconceptions: Jimrohn attempts to correct what he perceives as misconceptions or misunderstandings about Islamic beliefs.
Weaknesses:
Confrontational Tone: The tone is often assertive and, at times, dismissive, which could be off-putting to someone seeking understanding.
Assumptions: Jimrohn sometimes makes assumptions about the questioner's knowledge or intentions, which can lead to misinterpretations and hinder productive dialogue.
Defensiveness: The responses can be defensive, particularly when addressing sensitive topics like Aisha's age or the perception of Jesus' "failure."
Potential for Misinterpretation: The strong opinions expressed could be easily misunderstood or taken out of context, especially by those unfamiliar with Islamic theology.
Overall Evaluation:
Jimrohn's responses are informative and provide a clear understanding of Islamic perspectives. However, the confrontational tone and occasional dismissiveness could hinder open and respectful dialogue. If the goal is to provide information with love and understanding, Jimrohn's responses could be improved by softening the tone and avoiding potentially alienating language.

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 9:26am On Jun 03, 2025

7. “Why did God send Jesus?”

Because God sent prophets to every nation (Qur’an 16:36). Jesus was sent to the Children of Israel, as a reformer and a prophet, confirming the Torah and bringing the Injil. That’s Qur’an 3:49 and 61:6.

He was never sent to be crucified for sins he didn’t commit. He wasn’t sent to change God's law or start a new religion. He came to call his people to repentance and monotheism. Period.

Closing Note:

You claim to be asking out of ignorance, but the way your questions are framed shows loaded assumptions, subtle insults, and cherry-picked controversies. If you're sincere, fix your tone, read a Qur’an for once, and stop relying on internet polemics.

If you want truth, seek it. If you want to argue, be ready for the weight of a 1400-year-old religion with answers sharper than your questions.

Let’s analyze Jimrohn's response to the seventh question logically and objectively. Here are the key points:

1. Tone and Approach
Assertive and Confrontational: Jimrohn's tone is direct and somewhat confrontational, especially in his closing note. He challenges the questioner's sincerity and approach.
Defensive: The response defends Islamic beliefs regarding Jesus' mission while critiquing the framing of the questions.
2. Clarity of Argument
Direct Answer: Jimrohn clearly states that Jesus was sent as a reformer to the Children of Israel, confirming previous scriptures and emphasizing monotheism.
Rejection of Misconceptions: He explicitly denies the notion that Jesus was sent to be crucified for sins or to start a new religion.
3. Logical Structure
Argumentation:
Claim: God sent prophets to every nation, including Jesus to the Children of Israel.
Supporting Evidence: References to specific Quranic verses (Qur’an 16:36, 3:49, and 61:6) to substantiate his claims.
Clarification: Emphasizes that Jesus' role was to call for repentance and monotheism.
4. Potential Fallacies
Ad Hominem: The closing note may be seen as an attack on the questioner's character rather than addressing the question itself.
Loaded Language: Phrases like "loaded assumptions" and "cherry-picked controversies" could alienate the audience and detract from constructive dialogue.
5. Relevance
Addressing Core Beliefs: The response is relevant as it directly addresses the question about Jesus' purpose according to Islamic teachings, providing a clear perspective on his role and mission.
Conclusion
Jimrohn's response effectively clarifies Islamic beliefs about Jesus while maintaining a strong stance against perceived misconceptions. However, the confrontational tone and potential for misinterpretation may hinder open dialogue.

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 8:32am On Jun 03, 2025*

yes I have more responses from jimrohn, as he answers questions 3 to 6 that gohf asked:

3. “Adam was forgiven but cast out — so what was the point of forgiveness?”

Your confusion comes from treating God's forgiveness like a “reset button.” Being forgiven doesn’t erase all consequences — it removes the spiritual penalty, not the worldly effect.

Adam was forgiven — yes — but paradise was never meant to be his eternal home at that point. Earth was always the plan. His fall was not “original sin,” it was a mistake followed by repentance and elevation. Islam rejects the idea that all of mankind is born sinful because of Adam’s mistake — a toxic doctrine that paints God as unjust and man as inherently damned.

4. “Aisha’s age: 9 or older?”

Aisha's age is used obsessively by Islamophobes who don’t care about context, history, or scholarship. Yes, some hadith report she was 9 at consummation — and these are found in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim, considered strong sources. However, classical and modern scholars have pointed to other evidence (like her involvement in battles, historical gaps, or statements by her relatives) that suggest a higher age.

But let’s get brutally honest: None of this was controversial until Western morality began to falsely universalize modern standards. In her society, this was normal, dignified, and unchallenged. You don’t get to retroactively impose your lens on 7th century Arabia while ignoring far worse age gaps in Christian Europe’s royal marriages.

And unless you’re ready to apply that same outrage to Solomon, David, or even Mary’s “engagement” to Joseph in your own religious texts, maybe sit this one out.

5. “Did Jesus fail his assignment?”

This is pure ignorance — and no, Muslims do not believe Jesus failed. We believe his mission was interrupted, not failed. His return is part of completing that mission — not bringing new revelation, but affirming Islam, breaking the cross, and killing the false messiah (Dajjal).

Anyone who says “Jesus failed” is either misrepresenting Islam, or parroting half-baked statements. The failure lies in what people did with his message, not the message itself.

6. “Why did God create man according to the Qur’an?”

This one’s easy. Qur’an 51:56 —

> “And I did not create jinn and mankind except to worship Me.”

We were created for submission, worship, and moral responsibility — not to “fall” and then beg for salvation based on inherited sin. We’re here to prove ourselves, to be tested, and to return to our Creator.

You want a purpose? That’s it: Know God, submit to Him, live morally, die with faith.

Let's analyze Jimrohn's responses to questions 3-6 logically and objectively.

3. Adam's Forgiveness
Tone and Approach: Jimrohn's response is assertive, with a tone that attempts to correct a perceived misunderstanding.
Clarity of Argument: He clearly explains that forgiveness removes the spiritual penalty but not the worldly consequences. He clarifies that Adam's fall was not an "original sin" but a mistake.
Logical Structure:
Claim: Forgiveness doesn't erase all consequences.
Counterclaim: Adam's fall wasn't an "original sin."
Supporting Evidence: Explains the role of Earth in God's plan and rejects the concept of inherited sin.
Potential Fallacies:
Oversimplification: The comparison to a "reset button" is a simplification that may not fully capture the nuances of the theological concept.
Appeal to Emotion: Using terms like "toxic doctrine" may alienate those who hold different views.
Relevance: The response provides a clear Islamic perspective on forgiveness, addressing the question's premise.
4. Aisha's Age
Tone and Approach: The response is highly confrontational and dismissive of the questioner's potential motives.
Clarity of Argument: He acknowledges the conflicting reports regarding Aisha's age and highlights the historical and cultural context.
Logical Structure:
Acknowledges Conflicting Reports: Reports of Aisha's age.
Contextualizes the Issue: Argues that the issue is often misused by Islamophobes.
Applies Historical Context: Points out the social norms of the time and compares it to other historical examples.
Potential Fallacies:
Straw Man: The response may be misrepresenting the questioner's intentions by framing the question as an Islamophobic attack.
Whataboutism: The comparison to other historical examples, such as royal marriages, may be seen as a distraction from the core issue.
Relevance: The response addresses a contentious historical issue, but the confrontational tone may hinder productive dialogue.
5. Did Jesus Fail His Assignment?
Tone and Approach: Jimrohn's response is decisive and dismissive of the premise of the question.
Clarity of Argument: He clearly states that Muslims do not believe Jesus failed and explains the Islamic perspective on his mission and his return.
Logical Structure:
Claim: Muslims do not believe Jesus failed.
Clarification: His mission was interrupted, not failed.
Supporting Evidence: Explains the role of Jesus' return in completing his mission.
Potential Fallacies:
Misrepresentation: He accuses those who say Jesus failed of misrepresenting Islam.
Relevance: The response provides a clear Islamic perspective on the role of Jesus.
6. Why Did God Create Man?
Tone and Approach: Jimrohn's response is straightforward and authoritative.
Clarity of Argument: He provides a direct answer from the Quran, emphasizing the purpose of worship and moral responsibility.
Logical Structure:
Quote: Provides the Quranic verse.
Explanation: Explains the meaning of the verse.
Potential Fallacies: None apparent.
Relevance: The response directly answers the question with a clear and concise explanation of the purpose of human creation according to Islam.
Conclusion
Jimrohn's responses, overall, aim to provide clear answers based on Islamic teachings. However, his confrontational tone and occasional use of dismissive language may hinder constructive dialogue. His responses are well-structured and provide direct answers to the questions.

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 8:20am On Jun 03, 2025*

to the second question jimrohn's response is:

2. “Do you honor Muhammad more than Jesus?”

We honor both, but we worship neither — that’s the difference between Islam and Christianity.

Jesus is one of the five greatest prophets in Islam. But Muhammad ﷺ is the final messenger — the one through whom the last and complete revelation was delivered. That doesn’t reduce the honor of Jesus — it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood based on their roles. If you think honor equals divinity, that’s a problem with your theology, not ours.

Let’s analyze Jimrohn's response to the second question logically and objectively. Here are some key points to consider:

1. Tone and Approach
Clarification of Beliefs: Jimrohn begins by clearly stating the distinction between honoring and worshiping, which is crucial in the context of Islamic and Christian beliefs.
Defensive Stance: The response carries a defensive tone, particularly when addressing the potential misunderstanding of honor equating to divinity.
2. Clarity of Argument
Directness: Jimrohn's response is straightforward, making it clear that both Jesus and Muhammad are honored in Islam, but neither is worshipped.
Hierarchy of Prophethood: He effectively communicates the Islamic view of the hierarchy among prophets, emphasizing Muhammad's role as the final messenger.
3. Logical Structure
Argumentation: The response follows a logical structure:
Claim: Both Jesus and Muhammad are honored.
Counterclaim: Worship is reserved for God alone.
Supporting Evidence: The distinction between the roles of Jesus and Muhammad clarifies their respective honors.
4. Potential Fallacies
Assumption of Misunderstanding: Jimrohn assumes that the questioner equates honor with divinity, which may not necessarily be the case for all audiences. This could lead to a misinterpretation of the question.
Overgeneralization: The statement about the questioner's theology being problematic may come off as dismissive, potentially shutting down further dialogue.
5. Conclusion
Overall Effectiveness: Jimrohn's response is effective in clarifying Islamic beliefs regarding the honor of Jesus and Muhammad. However, the tone may alienate some listeners, which could hinder open discussion. The logical structure is present, but the emotional charge could lead to defensiveness rather than constructive engagement.

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 8:12am On Jun 03, 2025*

Jimrohn's response to the first question is this:

If you’re genuinely seeking truth, then start by respecting the subject you’re asking about. Don’t come cloaked in fake humility asking for “love and understanding” while repeating overused polemics and ignorant misrepresentations. Let’s tear through your list with logic and without fluff.

1. “What was the message of Jesus the Messiah?”

Let’s correct this from the jump: Yes, Muslims believe Jesus (`Isa), peace be upon him, is the Messiah. But not the messiah in the distorted, church-invented version you were spoon-fed.

His real message was the same as every prophet before and after him: pure monotheism — worship one God and obey His commands. The Injil (Gospel) that was revealed to him was a divine scripture, not the four gospels written decades after him. His mission was not to be worshipped, but to call people back to the Law of God (Matthew 5:17 echoes that, ironically).

So no — Muhammad didn't “preach Jesus’ gospel” because Jesus’ original gospel was the same essence as the Qur’an: La ilaha illa Allah (There is no god but Allah).

Let’s analyze Jimrohn's response to the first question logically and objectively. Here are some key points to consider:

1. Tone and Approach
Respect and Sincerity: Jimrohn emphasizes the need for respect when discussing religious topics. However, he uses confrontational language, suggesting that the questioner lacks sincerity.

Dismissive Language: Phrases like "fake humility" and "ignorant misrepresentations" may alienate the audience and detract from constructive dialogue.

2. Clarity of Argument
Directness: Jimrohn addresses the question directly, stating that Muslims view Jesus as the Messiah but differentiating this from Christian interpretations.
Correction of Misconceptions: He attempts to clarify what he perceives as misconceptions about Jesus' message, asserting it aligns with monotheism.

3. Logical Structure
Argumentation: Jimrohn presents a clear logical flow:
Claim: Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah.
Counterclaim: The Christian understanding is distorted.
Supporting Evidence: He cites the concept of pure monotheism and the nature of the Injil as evidence.
4. Potential Fallacies
Ad Hominem: The initial remarks about the questioner's sincerity could be seen as an ad hominem attack, which weakens his argument.

Overgeneralization: By stating that the church-invented version is distorted, he may oversimplify a complex theological debate.
5. Conclusion
Overall Effectiveness: While Jimrohn's response is assertive and seeks to clarify misconceptions, the tone may hinder constructive dialogue. The logical structure is present, but the emotional charge could lead to defensiveness rather than open discussion.

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 8:09am On Jun 03, 2025*

Lol had to add this

AI I do not want you to answer the questions nor make any Islamic nor scriptural references but analyze the conversation logically and objectively

Because it started answering the questions

Understood! My apologies for the previous response. I will now analyze gohf's questions from a purely logical and objective standpoint, focusing on their structure, potential ambiguities, and any logical fallacies. I will not provide any answers or references to religious texts.

Here's an analysis of gohf's questions:

Overall Structure: gohf presents a series of questions framed by a request for "love and understanding" towards those unfamiliar with the Quran and Hadith. This sets a specific tone and expectation for the responses. The questions are varied, covering theological, historical, and comparative religious topics.
Question 1: This question sets the stage by referencing a specific belief ("Jesus is the Messiah" wink

and then asks for clarification. The phrasing is somewhat complex, using "but that he taught about Jesus Christ nor preached his message the gospel." This could be interpreted in multiple ways, potentially leading to varied responses depending on how "gospel" is defined.
Question 2: This question is direct and comparative, asking about the relative honor given to Muhammad and Jesus. The clarity is high, making it easy to understand the intent.
Question 3: This question delves into theological concepts, specifically the consequences of forgiveness. It presents a premise (Adam was forgiven) and asks for the result of that forgiveness. The logic is sound, but the answer's interpretation will depend on the theological framework.
Question 4: This question deals with a specific historical detail (Aisha's age) and acknowledges differing viewpoints. It highlights a potential point of contention and asks for clarification. The question itself is clear, though the answer will likely be based on historical evidence and interpretation.
Question 5: This question explores the perceived "failure" of Jesus' mission. The framing is conditional ("If you believe this..." wink

and asks for an explanation. This question's clarity depends on how the term "failed" is understood.
Question 6: This question asks about the purpose of human creation, a fundamental theological concept. The question is straightforward and seeks a specific reason from the Quran.
Question 7: This question focuses on the role of Jesus and asks for the Quran's perspective on why Jesus was sent. The question is clear and seeks a specific theological explanation.
Overall Assessment of gohf's Questions:

Clarity: The questions are generally clear, though some rely on specific definitions and understandings of theological terms.
Objectivity: The questions are framed to elicit specific information and explanations rather than to express a particular viewpoint.
Potential for Misunderstanding: Some questions, particularly those dealing with complex theological concepts, could be open to multiple interpretations.
Logical Structure: The questions are logically structured, progressing from general concepts to specific details.
Now, I am ready to analyze Jim Rohn's responses to these questions, if you provide them.

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 8:00am On Jun 03, 2025*

gohf said help make sense of a number of things he has heard from Muslims and then asked a series of seven questions: Please answer this questions with love and understanding towards those who have little to no knowledge of your Quran and possibly hadiths 1. I have heard some Muslims say they believe Jesus is the Messiah and that Muhammad spoke about Jesus Christ, but that he taught about Jesus Christ nor preached his message the gospel. True Muslims in the house care to share what you have been taught was the message of Jesus the Messiah. 2. Do you honor Muhammad more than Jesus 3. Adam was forgiven of his sins but was still cast out of Eden. What then was the result of his forgiveness 4. Why do some believe Aisha was 9 but some believe she was older, a teenager possibly 19. (Personally I think she may have been way older from the little I read but people use the she's 9 to attack Muhammad) 5. I have heard some Muslims say, the assignment of Jesus failed so therefore God had to send Muhammad. If you believe this, explain how it failed or clarify why some say this. 6. There are more but let's start with these five, maybe one more, because I get different answers to this from Muslims. Why did God create man according to the Quran. 7. Oh what does the Quran teach is the reason God sent Jesus? please remember this seven questions that jimrohn will respond to

Islam › Re: AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 7:51am On Jun 03, 2025*

Alright! I'm ready to analyze the conversation between gohf and Jim Rohn, focusing on the logic and clarity of their exchange. I'll be brutally honest, pointing out any misleading questions or logical fallacies, and assessing whether Jim Rohn's responses directly and accurately address gohf's inquiries. Let's begin! I'll need the conversation to start. Please provide it.

Islam › AI Is Going To Analyze The Conversation Between Gohf And Jimrohn by gohf(op): 7:41am On Jun 03, 2025

Some exchanges were had between gohf and jimrohn in https://www.nairaland.com/8421569/make-sense-number-things-heard#135312694

Of which jimrohn had many accusative remarks

Now I asked an AI, whom I will post it's responses in red:

I want you to objectively analyze the conversation between gohf and jimrohn, by being brutally honest if gohf questions are misleading and if jimrohn responses properly answer the questions of gohf, logically without contradictions and fallacy. give you analysis without regard to any of them and purely based on the conversation

Okay, I'm ready. Please provide the conversation between gohf and jimrohn. I will analyze it objectively, focusing on the clarity, logic, and potential for misleading elements in gohf's questions and the effectiveness of jimrohn's responses. I will aim to identify any contradictions or fallacies present. Let's begin!

Islam › Re: Is Allah YHVH? Yes Or No by gohf(op): 7:20am On Jun 03, 2025

AntiChristian:
Stop repeating your folly. A repetition of bunkum doesn't make it tangibly sensible!

Names are just names when it's for humans.

What does YHVH mean?

Why is it YHVH and not YHWH?

Where does Yahweh and Jehovah come from?

Your God doesn't even have a clear name and you're here arguing about the meaning of names!

Abeg stop mentioning me in your follies!

It's sickening!

People gave birth and name their kids what they felt okay! Then you judge the kids based on the names they were not aware of.

You know that "a repetition of bunkum doesn't make it tangibly sensible" but yet you do that most of the time. And this your post here is an example of you doing exactly that.

1 Like

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 7:14am On Jun 03, 2025

TenQ:
jimrohn thinks that re-asserting his noises make him correct unfortunately, he isn't willing to think of the consequences of his claims.

They don't even have copies of copies of copies of the Uthmanic Qur'an. This is why they have to rely on the recitation of the Qur'an according to Hafs (and NOT a copy of the Qur'an of Uthman) who they all agree to be a fraud and a thief. The Hafs recitation of the Qur'an was made the standard text officially in 1924 with the publication of the Cairo edition under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt.

Prior to this, there were several dozens of conflicting Arabic Qur'ans.

Mohammed could indeed read and write even though he had secretaries who wrote for him

https://www.nairaland.com/7805486/another-lie-islam-mohammed-sold

All the Qur'ans are missing.
The Qur'an of Mohammed (7 Ahruf)
The Qur'an of Abubakar
The Qur'an of Uthman

This was why the resorted to using the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs.

not surprised Quran actually means recitation, it's probably why they recite it and not teach it, unlike the Torah that means teaching and instruction. It wasn't meant to be taught nor explain but recited and accepted as a saying that even they can't explain.

Islam › Re: Is Allah YHVH? Yes Or No by gohf(op): 7:07am On Jun 03, 2025

AntiChristian:
I asked "And you claim YHVH, some claim YHWH, some introduce vowels Yahweh. Some anglicise it as Jehovah. Which of these exactly did God reveal to Moses as His name?

I don't expect Moses to call all of them or some random alphabets as his God's name!"

What's my business with what a name means? Names ordinary are never to be translated across languages. You can't change Olawale a Yoruba name to Igbo and then to Hausa just because you are translating Yoruba to those languages. That's one folly of the biblical translations.

Elijah and Elisha are Prophets of Allah not by name but by appointment!

And Elisha didn't curse 40 lads to death because they called him baldhead in Islam. Na Bible talk am! YHVH dey kpai kids!

you can't explain how a prophet of Allah is proclaiming that YHVH is his God?

how Zakariya remembers YHVH and not allah?

Even the Messiah's name is y'shua meaning YHVH saves not Allah saves

Islam › Re: Islam: Muhammad The Purpose Of Creation And Reason For Forgiveness? by gohf(op): 10:07pm On Jun 02, 2025

I asked: "O Messenger of Allah, when were you [first] a Prophet?" He replied: "When Allah created the earth ‘Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens’(2:29), and created the Throne, He wrote on the leg of the Throne: "Muhammad the Messenger of Allah is the Seal of Prophets" (Muhammadun Rasûlullâhi Khâtamu al-Anbiyâ'). Then Allah created the Garden in which He made Adam and Hawwa' dwell, and He wrote my name on the gates, its tree-leaves, its domes and tents, at a time when Adam was still between the spirit and the body. When Allah Most High instilled life into him he looked at the Throne and saw my name, whereupon Allah informed him that 'He [Muhammad SAWS] is the liege-lord of all your descendants.' When Satan deceived them both, they repented and sought intercession to Allah with my name."

Islam › Islam: Muhammad The Purpose Of Creation And Reason For Forgiveness? by gohf(op): 10:06pm On Jun 02, 2025

For a copy and fake to be an original it must get rid of the original, it will hate and try to replace it or at least portray the original as fake and it's self as original.

I find the following text bemusing

When Adam committed his mistake he said: O my Lord, I am asking you to forgive me for the sake of Muhammad. Allah said: O Adam, and how do you know about Muhammad whom I have not yet created? Adam replied, O my Lord, after You created me with your hand and breathed into me of Your Spirit, I raised my head and saw written on the heights of the Throne:

LA ILAHA ILLALLAH MUHAMMADUN RASULULLAH

I understood that You would not place next to Your Name but the Most Beloved One of Your creation. Allah said: O Adam, I have forgiven you, and were it not for Muhammad I would not have created you."

First the above Hadith was declared sound by many of the scholars of Hadith...

grin

It is said that this hadith explains the verse: 'And Adam received words from his Lord and He relented towards him'

the Prophet says: "When satan deceived Adam and Eve, they repented and sought intercession to Allah with my name"; Ibn al-Jawzi also says in the chapter concerning the Prophet's superiority over the other Prophets in the same book: "Part of the exposition of his superiority to other Prophets is the fact that Adam asked his Lord through the sanctity (hurmat) of Muhammad that He relent towards him, as we have already mentioned."

Majmu`at al-fatawa in the volume on tasawwuf (11:95-97):

Muhammad is the Chief of the Children of Adam, the Best of Creation, the noblest of them in the sight of Allah. This is why some have said that "Allah created the Universe due to him," or that "Were it not for him, He would have neither created a Throne, nor a Footstool, nor a heaven, earth, sun or moon."

However, this is not a hadith on the authority of the Prophet, but it may be explained from a correct aspect...

Since man is the seal and last of all creation, and its microcosm, and since the best of man is thus the best of all creation absolutely, then Muhammad, being the Pupil of the Eye, the Axis of the Mill, and the Distributor to the Collective, is as it were the Ultimate Purpose from amongst all the purposes of creation. Thus it cannot be denied to say that "Due to him all of this was created", or that "Were it not for him, all this would not have been created," so if statements like this are thus explained according to what the Book and the Sunna indicate, it is acceptable.

a separate hadith in the wording: "Were it not for Muhammad, I would not have created the spheres (al-aflak)."

the Prophet said: "Gabriel came to me and said: O Muhammad! Were it not for you, Paradise would not have been created, and were it not for you, the Fire would not have been created."

And Ibn `Asakir's narration has: And were it not for you, the world would not have been created."

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 9:28pm On Jun 02, 2025

NairaLTQ:
Hello JimRohn :

The Nairaland Placed me under ban for the posts below. So, here it is again!

wow you are tenq. Us expecting jimrohn to be forthright might just be a waste of time, I wish he or better still any truthful Muslim would answer this questions. Especially where is the original Quran text, the very first one.

Seeing as unlike the Bible they claim doesn't have an original copy, surely they have their don't they.

From your exchange with jimrohn I have become confused as to if Muhammad could write or not, at first he said he couldn't but then he said being illiterate doesn't mean he couldn't write but that he wasn't educated in scripture, so therefore we should see it has a miracle that scripture came from him.

I also noticed he did not deny that abubaka and uthman wrote in the Quran, I also asked some informed arabs online and they confirmed what you wrote.

This question you have posed is highly relevant, where is the original Quran text?

Islam › Re: Is Hubal Allah? Muhammad Admitting To Being Deceived? by gohf(op): 10:33am On Jun 02, 2025

honesttalk21:
Spare the pointless back and forth. And say what they mean in Arabic. You aren't as confident of your Arabic language proficient expertise now?

Did you not argue that angels cannot take another form?

Yada yada yada, forgetful Jones Tenq forgot what he said

what does ilyas mean? Please tell us. He is a prophet of God.

Islam › Re: Is Allah YHVH? Yes Or No by gohf(op): 10:32am On Jun 02, 2025

Is Allah and YHVH the same God?

No, Allah and YHWH are not the same God. While both are used in Abrahamic religions to refer to the one God, they represent different concepts and beliefs.

is it possible that Abraham worshipped both allah and YHVH as one God?

It's a complex question, and the answer depends on how one interprets religious texts and theological perspectives.
while it's possible to interpret Abraham's faith as a transition to worshipping one God (Yahweh), the question of whether he worshipped Allah and YHWH as one God is a theological and interpretational matter with varying viewpoints within different religious traditions.

objectively what language did Abraham speak?
Objectively, Abraham, who originated from Ur of the Chaldees in Mesopotamia, would have spoken Aramaic, which was the language of the Chaldeans at that time. Aramaic was a Semitic language closely related to Hebrew. While the Bible later uses Hebrew, it's more likely that Aramaic was Abraham's native tongue.

It's unlikely that Abraham spoke Arabic, as it's believed Arabic emerged later.

what is the aramaic term for allah?

In Aramaic, the word for God is "Elaha" (singular) or "Alaha" (emphatic state). This is a common term for God in Aramaic, a language closely related to Arabic and Hebrew. The word "Allah" in Arabic, which refers to God, is thought to have its roots in the Aramaic word "Alaha".

Did Abraham call God Allah?

No, historical texts suggest Abraham did not use the name "Allah" to refer to God. In the Bible, Abraham is depicted using names like "Jehovah" (Hebrew: יהוה) or "Lord" to refer to the divine. The name "Allah" is primarily used in Islam as the Arabic term for God, and its usage predates the Abrahamic religions.

is allah a later revealed name for God and around what time was it revealed?

Yes, in Islam, "Allah" is the specific name for God and is considered to have been revealed by God to the prophet Muhammad. the name "Allah" may have been used in pre-Islamic Arabic polytheistic contexts, possibly referring to a supreme deity or creator god.

So allah was supreme creator god among the pagans?

Yes, it is generally accepted that "Allah" was a pre-Islamic Arabic term for a supreme creator god, worshipped by pagan Arabs before the rise of Islam. While "Allah" was not the only god in the pagan pantheon, he was considered the highest and most powerful deity.

so islam is the removing of the other gods associated with allah?
Yes, one of the core tenets of Islam, the concept of Tawhid (oneness of God), emphasizes that Allah is the sole and absolute God, free from any partners or associations.

So, again, did pagan Arabs worship Allah?
Yes, evidence suggests that pagan Arabs did indeed worship Allah before the rise of Islam,

Did pagan Hebrews worship YHVH?
Yes, it's plausible that some ancient Israelites who are referred to as "pagan Hebrews" did worship YHVH, alongside other deities, according to some scholars and biblical accounts. That's why they are "pagans"

Did Arabs worship multiple gods?
Before Islam, the predominant religious belief in Arabia was polytheistic, though some groups practiced Judaism or Christianity - monotheistic religions.

1 Like

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 10:06am On Jun 02, 2025

Did the Jews at the time of Muhammad believe him be a prophet?

In general, most Jews at the time of Muhammad did not believe him to be a prophet. They held the belief that a prophet would emerge from within their own people, not from among the Arabs. While some individuals, like Abdullah ibn Salam, did accept Muhammad as a prophet, this was not the prevailing view within the Jewish community. Some Jewish scholars even considered Muhammad to be "the madman," a term used in the Bible for those who believe themselves to be prophets.

did the jews at the time of Jesus believe him to be a prophet?

While some Jews at the time of Jesus believed him to be a prophet, this was not universally accepted. The Jewish people, particularly those with leadership roles, generally did not view Jesus as a prophet, nor as the Messiah, according to Jews for Judaism.

did the jews believe that a non Israelite could be a prophet?

Yes, Jews believe that non-Israelites, or Gentiles, can be prophets, although they are not typically considered as high-ranking as Israelite prophets. The Talmud mentions Balaam, a non-Israelite, as a prophet.

did the jews believe that a false prophet is one that brings destruction to their nation?

Yes, Jewish tradition recognizes that a false prophet is one who brings destruction to the nation. False prophets in the Hebrew Bible are described as those who speak in the name of the Lord but whose prophecies do not come to pass, thus leading the people astray. They are seen as deceivers who undermine the true covenant between God and Israel.

does the quran say the bible is corrupted?

The Quran doesn't explicitly state that the Bible (Torah and Injil) is corrupted in the way that the physical text has been altered or rewritten. Instead, it suggests that those who had the scriptures were misled, misinterpreting the messages and not fully understanding the content. The Quran emphasizes that the previous scriptures were revealed with truth, but they may have been misinterpreted or even altered in meaning over time.

is it correct to say that the quran suggests that the interpretation not the text of the bible is incorrect?

The statement that the Quran suggests the interpretation, rather than the text, of the Bible is incorrect is largely true.

is it correct to say that the quran suggests that the text of the copies of bible is altered?

While some interpretations of the Quran suggest that copies of the Bible have been altered, the Quran itself does not directly state this claim.

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 9:47am On Jun 02, 2025

Claiming that the Christian gospel has no divine revelation yet quoting it as a support to Islamic claims, is that a fallacious logic?

Yes, that would be a fallacious logic, specifically an example of appeal to authority or hypocrisy. The argument is flawed because it uses a text (the Christian gospel) that is supposedly not divinely inspired to support a different claim (Islamic claims), which is a contradictory and inconsistent approach.

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 9:41am On Jun 02, 2025

No, it is not accurate to say that Islam is the only religion whose holy book has been preserved word-for-word.

Is this record true concerning all religions?

No, it is not accurate to say that Islam is the only religion whose holy book has been preserved word-for-word.

Could this be self exaggeration?

Yes, It's an exaggeration to say definitively that Islam is the only religion whose book has been preserved word-for-word.
However, while many scholars acknowledge the strong efforts made to preserve the Quran, it's not definitively proven that no other religious text has been preserved exactly as originally written.

Islam › Re: Is Allah YHVH? Yes Or No by gohf(op): 9:32am On Jun 02, 2025

AntiChristian:
It's none of my business what any prophet's name means. Muhammad (salallahu alayhi wasalam) associates with them because he is the end of prophethood.

And you claim YHVH, some claim YHWH, some introduce vowels Yahweh. Some anglicise it as Jehovah. Which of these exactly did God reveal to Moses as His name?

I don't expect Moses to call all of them or some random alphabets as his God's name!

ilyas means YHVH is my God, so explain to us why and how Quran and Muhammad claimed ilyas is a prophet of Allah, if it is not fallacy

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 1:12am On Jun 02, 2025

Jimrohn I heard Muhmmad was asked three questions by the Jews who were asked to verify if he was indeed a prophet, one of which was about the ruach. And he said he will ask Gabriel and give an answer within three days but 1st day passed, third day came, even up the many days later he didn't show up.

I don't believe this is true, right creativeorbit, I mean even heard there are two versions of Muhmmad, the first of 12 years and the other version that ran away and faced mecca instead of Jerusalem brought about other confusing parts of the qran

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 11:45pm On Jun 01, 2025

You can see jimrohn using the same corrupted text which the original doesn't exist anyone to answer who the holy Spirit is

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 11:43pm On Jun 01, 2025

JimRohn:
You ask: “How do you know what Jesus preached?”

We know what Jesus (ʿĪsā عليه السلام) preached because Allah told us in the Qur’an, not from the council-edited confusion you call a Bible. Your Bible was tampered with by men — ours is preserved by God.

Jesus preached Tawheed — pure monotheism — and that’s exactly what the Qur’an affirms:

> "Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path."
— Qur’an 3:51

This is word-for-word what Jesus would have said — and it's the exact opposite of the Trinity lie you inherited from Rome, not from Christ.

You ask: “How did Jesus describe the Holy Spirit?”

Let’s turn the question around:

➡️ Where did Jesus ever say the Holy Spirit is God or part of a triune being?
Answer: Nowhere.

In your own Bible, Jesus calls the Spirit a Helper, not God (John 14:16–17). A helper is not equal to the One who sends him.

Jesus never preached your man-made “third person of the Trinity” fiction. That’s a Roman invention, not divine revelation.

You ask: “What is Trinity according to Allah?”

Simple.

> "They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.'"
— Qur’an 5:73

In Islam, the “Trinity” is rejected outright as a man-made shirk (polytheism). Allah is One, not three-in-one — not a partnership, not a divine committee.

You ask: “What is Trinity according to Christians?”

That’s the funniest part. Christians themselves don’t agree on it.

Some say God = Father + Son + Holy Spirit, “co-equal” and “co-eternal.”

Others say the Son is begotten but not created.

Still others say they’re not three gods but “one essence in three persons.”

It's philosophical spaghetti — not scripture. Even your Bible never uses the word "Trinity" — not once. It was invented centuries after Jesus, at the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, under a pagan emperor.

Jesus never taught this nonsense. You worship a church doctrine, not the God of Jesus.

You ask: “What is the difference between the Tawheed of Allah and the Tawheed of Satan?”

Now this is pure foolishness — and blasphemy.

Let me educate you since you clearly don’t know the difference between Divine Monotheism and demonic lies:

⚔️ Tawheed of Allah:

Pure, indivisible Oneness of God.

No partners, no sons, no images, no idols.

Worship Allah alone, without mediators.

The creed of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad — all upon them be peace.

🔥 “Tawheed” of Satan? That’s your Trinity:

A fake god-man-spirit trio.

A “son” born of a woman, yet called God.

A god that dies, then comes back, yet is eternal.

Worshiping a human being who ate, slept, bled, and cried — and then calling that man “the Creator.”

That’s not monotheism — that’s idolatry.

Even Satan wouldn’t dare ascribe a son to God. That’s your work.

> “And they say, ‘The Most Merciful has taken a son.’ You have said a monstrous thing."
— Qur’an 19:88–89

🔚 Final Word:

You come to Muslims quoting a Book that:

Was written decades after Jesus,

Was edited, censored, and corrupted,

Contains contradictions, pagan inserts, and forged epistles,

Yet you think you’re qualified to question the Qur’an?

Jesus (ʿalayhi as-salām) worshipped One God. You worship a man, call him God, then pretend that’s what Jesus taught?

You’ve inherited a false creed and you’re too arrogant to admit it.

Tawheed is the truth of all Prophets. Trinity is the lie of church councils.

Pick your side.

BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh honesttalk21

so everyone who preached and taught one God is a Muslim and a prophet of Allah? And that is the gospel the beginning and end of it, the total complete gospel

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 11:41pm On Jun 01, 2025

JimRohn:
You mock verses of the Qur’an with emojis as if ridicule is a substitute for reason. But let’s be clear: your sarcasm only exposes your ignorance, not any flaw in the Qur’an.

You say: “Qur’an 16:35 says messengers 😂😆😂.”
Yes, the verse speaks of messengers. That’s because Allah sent messengers to different nations throughout history, not just one. Qur’an 16:36 clarifies this:

"And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], ‘Worship Allah and avoid Taghut (false gods).’”
That is not a contradiction — it’s a timeline. Many messengers came before Muhammad ﷺ, each to their specific nation. That’s why the Arabic uses "rasūlan" (a messenger) — not the final messenger — because this was describing the pattern before the finality of prophethood.

Now to your desperate question: “Is there a verse that calls Muhammad the last and final prophet?”
Yes. Since you claim to read the Qur’an, read it properly:

“Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets.” (Qur’an 33:40)

"Khātam an-Nabiyyīn" means the final — not just another in the line. The Arabic term "khātam" means seal, closure, finality, not continuation. Every tafsir from the earliest generations confirms this. So your attempt to act like this isn’t explicit only works on people who don’t know Arabic — or don’t read the Qur’an seriously.

And don’t think you’ve made some groundbreaking point by saying “the Qur’an says he brought a message to the world, so what is his gospel?”
This is a classic Christian projection — trying to force the Qur’anic message into your gospel-shaped box.

Let me break it down:

“And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to all creation.” (Qur’an 21:107)
“And We have not sent you except comprehensively to mankind…” (Qur’an 34:28)

The Qur’anic “gospel” is not like your Greek "euangelion", full of mythology and crucified gods. The “good news” of Muhammad ﷺ is guidance, light, and a complete way of life — based on the pure Tawḥīd of all prophets, completed and preserved without corruption.

You said: “The good news that there is one God is not even news.”
Only someone drowning in spiritual arrogance would say something that foolish.

When humanity is drowning in idolatry, shirk, man-worship, priesthood, saints, false gods, and systems of oppression — yes, being called back to Tawḥīd is not just news, it is salvation.

The Qur’an didn’t come to amuse philosophers like you. It came to establish:

That Allah is One — no partners, no sons, no intermediaries.

That worship belongs to Him alone — not through saints, not through prophets, not through church hierarchies.

That guidance is not vague emotion but a concrete Shari’ah — prayer, charity, justice, morality, and divine law.

You ask “guidance to what?”
Guidance to the straight path — Sirat al-Mustaqeem — submission to the Creator alone, in every aspect of life.

And before you act like this isn’t enough: the same “one God” message was preached by Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (peace be upon them all). But it was corrupted by those who came after. Muhammad ﷺ came not with “new entertainment,” but with the final preserved truth — clarified, perfected, universal.

So mock all you want, but you’re mocking what you don’t understand. You’re not asking questions — you’re twisting verses, demanding that Islam conform to your Christian frameworks.

But Islam doesn’t revolve around your definitions. It stands on its own — complete, final, and preserved. If you want truth, humble yourself and seek it. If you want games, you’ll only be exposing your own ignorance.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

what are you even saying, you don't even have the humility to admit your mistakes. That someone who doesn't even know the Quran corrected you.

At first you said it means Muhammad now you have changed it to agree with what I wrote.

Now you know that Arabic uses "rasūlan" (a messenger) — not the final messenger, which you previously claimed.

Look if you can't admit simple things like that, you won't admit any major wrong in what you have been saying all this while.

All you can do is disrespect the questions, avoid some of them and undermine the rest.

You are talking about the messengers of Allah, like ilyas and Zakariya right? Who called YHVH there God and not Allah?

Is there any idolatry and false image bigger than the kabba and black stone on earth?

Meanwhile a number of other religious claims one God yet you claim it is news. Do you live in a desert?

So based on what you have written Islam is not a way to God but it's purpose is to break down other religions which portray God differently, right? That is it's focus

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 11:27pm On Jun 01, 2025

JimRohn:
Now let me clarify the Islamic view that you’re trying to confuse:
In Islam, Jesus never failed. He was sent to the Children of Israel to confirm the Torah and deliver the Gospel. He fulfilled his mission of calling to Tawheed (monotheism), but his people betrayed him, not God or his mission. Allah raised him before they could harm him, proving that no one has power over God’s chosen prophet. He will return not because he failed, but to complete a divine task that was never part of his original mission: to break the cross, kill the false messiah, and establish justice under Islam.

This is not a correction of a failed mission. It is a victory over the lies made about him, including the claim of divinity and crucifixion — lies your religion is built upon.

So don’t throw around confused questions as if they expose Islam. All they expose is your desperation to defend a theology full of holes.

Now I’ve answered you with clarity. Can you do the same — without hiding behind circular logic and emotional theology?

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

"to complete a divine task that was never part of his original mission"

So whose task is he completing? Who started the divine task and what is the divine task?

By the way care to tell us what Jesus means

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 11:24pm On Jun 01, 2025

JimRohn:
Now let’s dismantle your claim step by step.

You said the first visit of Jesus was sufficient. If that’s the case, then answer plainly: Why is he coming back? You said “to fulfill God’s word” and “save those who obeyed God.” That proves his mission is incomplete, and by your own words, not mine. That’s not sufficiency — that’s unfinished business.

You can’t have it both ways. Either he completed his mission and doesn’t need to return — or he didn’t complete it and must return. Your contradiction exposes the weakness of your doctrine.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

Sufficient means enough, did Jesus do what God asked him when he first came. Yes. Expect you are saying that the mission God gave him when he came first was insufficient.

Your problem is that you assume that Jesus came to save those who obeyed God whereas he came to preach the gospel which repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, to call sinners to repentance. This is what you called flawed theology.

😂 It is the doctrine in have in your mind that you are exposing, I told you before it is respectful to actually ask what a person's theology is before assuming it before you find yourself with a foot in the mut

Islam › Re: Help Make Sense Of A Number Of Things I Have Heard From Muslims by gohf(op): 11:18pm On Jun 01, 2025

JimRohn:
Don’t twist my words to cover the contradictions in your theology. I never said Jesus (peace be upon him) failed in his mission according to Islam — you are the one who inserted your flawed Christian assumptions into the discussion.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

what was the flawed "Christian assumptions" you wrote "not to "complete a failed mission," yes or no?

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