₦airaland Forum

You ask why Jesus is the Messiah.
Islam answers this clearly. Jesus is the Messiah because he was anointed by God, born miraculously, and given a specific mission to guide the Children of Israel. He was not sent to die for sins, nor to abolish the law, but to reaffirm monotheism. You’ve inherited a redefined Messiah molded by Greek and Roman philosophy, not the Hebrew concept.

creativeorbit you are saying that God only anointed Jesus to tell the people of Israel what they already know that there is one God, are you trying to insult our intelligence or you are trying to mock God. So God spoke so much about a Messiah only to send him to tell one nation what he had already revealed to them numerous times, and do nothing else? And that is the whole igneel or gospel? And you believe that?

Now to your five “simple” questions, which are designed to confuse rather than reveal truth:

1. Why is Jesus a Word and Spirit from Allah?
Because Allah created him by His Word ("Be" and supported him with the Holy Spirit (like many prophets). That doesn’t make him divine—it magnifies the power of God, not the status of the creation.

so God created Jesus by his word and his spirit to just tell one nation that there is only one God? And like you unnecessarily stated, like other prophets. Meaning God did something unnecessary for a reason he could have as well done with just about any of his other prophets. That's what is you are saying right?

AntiChristian TenQ

CreativeOrbit:
Your analogy is lazy and laced with dangerous prejudice. If you host ten guests and hide your valuables because one is a thief, you're not being cautious—you’re indicting them all without evidence. And if your fear is that the “good ones” won’t stop the bad one, then you’ve already decided they’re guilty by association. That’s not wisdom; that’s paranoia dressed up as logic.

you logic counts for that the good ones know the bad one, question is, do you as a Muslim know the bad ones? That's if you consider yourself one of the "good ones". And you seem to suggest that it's the duty of the good ones to stop the bad ones, question is, have you the "good" ones do so? Expect the majority are actually bad and are incapable of doing so, or are in bed with them. It's not like a thief would announce they are one, they would still present themselves as honest and honorable. If you don't see your reasoning as flawed then you are part of the problem.

Now to your religious claims—let’s unpack each one of your assertions, all of which are based on shallow assumptions and weak understanding.

1. “It is impossible that the way to paradise outlined in the Bible and Qur’an lead to the same Paradise.”
False. You're imposing your binary thinking on God. Islam acknowledges previous revelations and sees itself as a continuation—not a contradiction. The Qur’an explicitly says people of previous scriptures who believe in God and do good will be rewarded (Qur’an 2:62). If God wants to grant salvation through multiple paths, who are you to limit Him?

do you really believe that and is this something Quran teachings that salvation can be through many paths? Islam may not see it's self as a contradiction but it contradicts the very revelations you claim it continues as well as stating that there are errors in those revelations, even though the same Quran claims to acknowledge them as being from God.

2. “The paradise preached by Jesus is different from that of Muhammad.”
Only if you twist both teachings out of context. Both speak of a Day of Judgment, of divine justice, of reward for righteousness and punishment for wickedness. The imagery may differ, but the core is the same: submit to God, live righteously, and hope for His mercy. Your obsession with surface-level differences ignores the unity in message.

3. “Islam contradicts Judaism and Christianity.”
Of course it does—because those religions contradict each other too. Judaism rejects Jesus as the Messiah. Christianity says salvation is through belief in Jesus’ divinity and resurrection. Islam rejects both claims, restoring monotheism to its purest form. If contradiction means Islam isn’t true, then by your logic, Christianity must be false too—for contradicting Judaism.

4. “Islam is incomplete without borrowing from Judaism and Christianity.”
That’s like saying physics “borrows” from arithmetic. Islam builds on earlier revelations—it doesn’t plagiarize, it fulfills. Islam explicitly honors earlier prophets (including Moses and Jesus), but it also corrects where their messages were distorted. That’s not weakness—that’s continuity. You call it borrowing; we call it revelation in stages.

5. “Modern Jews still practice strict monotheism.”
Yes—and so do Muslims. That’s precisely why Islam rejects the trinity and divine sonship of Jesus, both of which violate monotheism. Islam shares the strict monotheism of Judaism, but without racial exclusivity or rejection of later prophets. If you admire Jewish monotheism, you should appreciate Islam’s even more uncompromising stance.

In short, your arguments are riddled with contradictions, half-truths, and a stunning lack of depth. You want to discredit Islam, but your own logic collapses under scrutiny. Islam stands on 1,400 years of theological, philosophical, and moral substance. If you want to critique it, do better than recycled talking points and amateur apologetics.

gohf AntiChristian TenQ

I think it's pathetic that you judge someone's elses argument without realizing how horrible yours is, it's like that peck and log in the eye parable. You wrote Islam isn't contradictory yet you also in the same post wrote of course Islam contradicts Judaism and Christianity. I hoped for an explanation that clarifies your point, but instead you wrote, because both religious contradict each other two. And that is supposed to make logical sense and bring an understandable conclusion to those reading it, right?


What you call a thing doesn't explain what it is, do you understand what I mean

Now you call those contradictions, correction: it also corrects where their messages were distorted. While you stated what you believe is taught by each religion, what does Islam correction state, that the text is wrong? No, because what you wrote is what Judaism and Christianity teach, not what is written. And you skip the main point, which is what exactly is written.

Did the new testament write those claims, did the Tanakh write those claims. The answer is no, so back to the original question what right does a Muslim or Quran have to say they are making corrections?

Back to the statement of contradictions, where your written account of Adam, God, Abraham and Israel are filled with contradictions to what is written in the Tanakh is the question.

The Tanakh is filled with God's prophecies concerning who the Messiah is, does the Quran accept those to be true or corrects them?

You can't claim the Quran is an original text if it's a correction to previous text and if it's an original text with it because it also believes there is one God, listen to someone written in the bible, even demons believe there's one Lord and tremble. Now do you believe that the Quran is true because it believes and teaches one God? You may so, but you mentioning the Quran correcting the texts written by Moses has to be followed by proof for it to be believed or are you expecting those reading this to swallow your claims as what is true?

CreativeOrbit:
You’re quoting a hadith without context and ignoring centuries of scholarship to push a biased narrative.

The Qur’an clearly says: “There is no compulsion in religion” (2:256)—a foundational principle, not a suggestion. The hadith you mentioned (“Whoever changes his religion, kill him”) has been debated for centuries and is context-specific. It refers to treason during a time of war, not someone quietly changing their personal beliefs.

You can’t pick a single narration, strip it of context, and ignore the Qur’an, legal nuance, and scholarly interpretation just to make a point. That’s not honest inquiry—it’s deliberate misrepresentation.

If Islam truly mandated killing apostates, 1.9 billion Muslims wouldn’t be living peacefully among people of all faiths. The fact that you ignore this and cling to a militant reading says more about your intent than about Islam itself.

gohf AntiChristian TenQ

what do you mean by "quietly" changes their beliefs, would a public Muslim who publicly changes their view be seen as one who should be killed?

Would it be seen as war, when someone speaks against Islam and the prophet? would that then justify killing the person or threatening them.

You keep saying 1.9billion many of which you don't know what they practice, when you come down to Nigeria and your local area you can begin to make your assessment from there

CreativeOrbit:
I see what you’re trying to say—but your analogy and reasoning are both deeply flawed, and frankly, quite dangerous.

Let’s deal with your example: if you host ten people, and one is a thief, does that justify distrusting or punishing all ten? Of course not—unless you believe in guilt by association, which is the foundation of discrimination and bigotry. By that logic, no group—religious, ethnic, or national—would be trusted, because every group has its criminals, extremists, and deviants. The real question is: do we judge people by the worst among them, or by the values they consistently uphold?

Now to your “two parts of Islam” claim. This is a gross oversimplification. Islam is not a pick-your-side ideology. The verses and teachings you’re referring to exist in historical, legal, and situational contexts. Muslims are required to interpret them with knowledge and discipline—not reckless literalism. That’s why the overwhelming majority of Muslims today live peacefully with Christians, Jews, atheists, and people of all beliefs. The existence of extremists doesn’t prove Islam is flawed—it proves that ignorance, when weaponized, exists in all communities.

You suggest that non-Muslims should “stay on the side of caution” when dealing with Muslims. But let’s be honest—what you’re proposing isn’t caution, it’s prejudice disguised as prudence. Would it be acceptable if a Muslim said, “We should all be cautious around non-Muslims, because some of them invaded our lands, colonized our people, and dropped bombs on our homes”? Of course not. That would be unjust and dehumanizing. Just like your reasoning is now.

If you want peace and coexistence, then you don’t build it by mistrusting 1.9 billion people based on the actions of a few. You build it by recognizing that good and evil are human problems—not Islamic problems, Christian problems, or Jewish problems.

The real problem isn’t Islam. It’s the insistence on judging people through the lens of fear and ignorance rather than fairness and understanding. That’s what truly needs fixing.

gohf AntiChristian TenQ

I blame myself for not reading this earlier when you quoted me because I was busy. Ah creativeorbit you are saying tenq reasoning is flawed, so you are indirectly saying that everyone who shares his worries concerning what is written and possibly taught by Muslims in Islam is flawed. Ah creativeorbit you may as well be part of the problem.

Is your eagerness to be right more important than what is true?

You ignored the issue nor gave attention to the seriousness of the note, let me repeat it for you

On a serious note,
Do you think we non-muslims should stay on then side of CAUTION in dealing with you Muslims OR we assume that every Muslim will act like you?

I think this is the main problem.

I think people like you and those who liked and shared your post put the minds of those of us who are ignorant concerning what is actually taught in Islam to Muslim at easy that we throw away the CAUTION tenq mentions.

One would have to be wicked to call such a flawed reasoning.. would you tell your children to play with tigers because some are kept by humans in a zoo?

This isn't about human weakness but what exactly is being taught by the Quran and from the Quran. It's like saying that because some fake men exort money from people with the bible it is a flawed and dangerous reasoning to be caution of all of them that teach such.

I know their are extremist but they are also those who distort a text to mean something else. But it becomes clearly different when there are extremist who didn't distort any text but based on what is repeated mentioned in a book.

We are not talking about being radically good

TenQ:
How do we reconcile this with


Sunan an-Nasa'i 4060
It was narrated from 'Ikrimah:
"Some people apostatized after accepting Islam, and 'Ali burned them with fire. Ibn 'Abbas said: 'If it had been me, I would not have burned them; the Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'No one should be punished with the punishment of Allah.' If it had been me, I would have killed them; the Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him.'"

And

Mishkat al-Masabih 3936
Abu Wa’il told that Khalid b. al-Walid wrote to the people of Persia:
In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful. From Khalid b. al-Walid to Rustum and Mih'an among the nobles of Persia. Peace be to those who follow the guidance. To proceed: We summon you to Islam, but if you refuse then pay the jizya in subjection feeling humbled (Cf. Al-Qur'an, 9:29). If you refuse to do that, I have with me people who love being killed in God’s path as the Persians love wine. Peace be to those who follow the guidance.

Jizyah was meant to humiliate us who are not Muslims.

How can we reconcile this with no compulsion in religion?

wow killing people is being compared to loving wine, wow just wow

And honesttalk21 I didn't see your response to this post, if you responded kindly tag me to it

People that love being killed, omg 😱😱. Is this Quran or path of "the essentials" creativeorbit

CreativeOrbit:
Your point, though passionately made, reflects a dangerously oversimplified and misinformed understanding of both Islamic theology and religious interpretation in general.

The claim that “some Muslims justify violence using the Qur’an or Hadith” does not prove that Islam promotes violence any more than extremists in any religion prove the inherent violence of that religion. If misuse of scripture were a valid argument against a faith, then no religion would stand untouched—history is full of examples where verses from the Bible, Torah, or even secular ideologies were twisted to justify atrocities.

What you call “a matter of opinion” is actually a matter of context, scholarship, and intellectual honesty. Islam has a rich and disciplined tradition of jurisprudence and interpretation—what a fringe group claims cannot override 1,400 years of mainstream theological consensus that explicitly condemns unjust violence, aggression, and the killing of innocents.

To equate extremists’ warped logic with valid theological reasoning is not only dishonest—it’s intellectually lazy. It’s like saying doctors and quacks are equal simply because they both prescribe medicine. The fact that some people twist religion for violence doesn’t indict the religion itself—it indicts those people and their motives.

If you’re truly concerned about theological interpretations that cause harm, then the responsible approach is to engage with credible scholars, understand the core message, and stop painting over 1.9 billion people with the brush of a misguided minority. Otherwise, you’re not debating—you’re just amplifying ignorance.

gohf AntiChristian TenQ

look this bunch of words do not address the question.

From an aethistic pov
Did your messenger of god say kill whoever leaves your religion? Yes or no

If you have another interpretation let's hear it, instead of condemning an interpretation, gives yours let's read it.

CreativeOrbit:
So you dug up a single headline and an out-of-context Hadith, slapped them together, and called it an argument? That’s not critical thinking—it’s weak sensationalism.

Your entire logic rests on intellectual laziness. “There is no compulsion in religion” (Qur’an 2:256) is a clear, standing declaration of religious freedom in Islam. Full stop. But of course, you ignore that because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Your Hadith quote? Try understanding jurisprudence before using it as a weapon. The scholars didn’t read it the way you are. Most understood it as a response to treason during wartime—not personal belief change. But nuance obviously isn’t your strong suit.

Dragging a single Sharia court case in Zamfara to indict 1.9 billion people is laughably pathetic. That’s like blaming all of Christianity because of one crooked judge in Alabama. You’re not arguing—you’re fearmongering.

Your complaints don’t expose Islam. They expose your bias, your ignorance, and your unwillingness to think critically. If you want to debate religion, bring arguments—not headlines and half-truths.

gohf AntiChristian TenQ

going to ask you a simple question

Are you saying that people don't get threatened for leaving Islam?

Let's not even globalize it, let's localize it to Nigeria here. Please answer honestly

AntiChristian:
When Moses was alive he was the judge of his people. Same as Joshua and even Muhammad. The religious words of a Prophet is a law. In every rights they are the judge of their people.

Jesus will come to exercise this right on earth. He will descend as a Muslim to judge with Islam. He will live as the human he is and die after completing his mission. He will be buried by the Muslims.

Allah is the only Judge of us all on the day of resurrection! Even Jesus will be questioned on that day about his role in making people worship him and his mother and he will deny you all.

This denial is clearly stated by Allah in the Qur'an!

so instead of answering my question you are
adding new insights t show us your believe.
It's interesting that you avoid answering a
simple logical question but looking at what you
just wrote,you are saying that the kingdom of
God that is coming as the Quran teaches where
Jesus would return as the Messiah,and God's
people will live and rule upon the earth. That
they all vill then die again?
Now is it not fuıny that you seem to have the
need to continually state that Jesus is human,
what is he before if not human.Obviously not a
ghost seeing as you all also claim believe he is
alive. Now did your Quran teach you that when
he returns again,he is going to die? Or is that
your personal interpretation from a text or your
personal view?
Lol you then said Jesus would be questioned on
his role and he would deny.Isn't that a logical
fallacy. Is judgement day a day vhere people
can deny false accusations?

NairaLTQ:
Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

Questions:
1. Knowing that the Qur'an is clear and simple to understand, is Allah associating the Messiah as partners with him?
2. Is this Quranic verse an error or mistake OR is it exactly what Allah intend to say?
3. Does Allah truly want us to make the Messiah LORD with him?

OR
Do we need to twist Arabic Grammar to make the verse consistent with what Allah says?


Quran 19:71
There is not one of you who will not go down to it (the Fire), that is a fixed Decree of your Lord

Meaning that ALL Muslims will at least first be in Hell Fire.

Quran 19:72
Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees

After ALL you Muslims enter the Fire, THEN Allah will THEREAFTER remove the good Muslims and leave other people in the Fire

1. I am sure the first thing you will say is that, "the verse doesn't say that" . So, strictly from the Arabic , what does it say?
2. Why do you think you will first have to go into hell fire before you are freed by Allah?
3. How long do you think you will be in the fire before Allah comes to free you: 1000 years!?





I am not even making any arguments: I am presenting may case based on reasons.
What you seem to want to do is to give me your own views without answering for my reasons AND you want me to take it as the final testament.
I am not here to provoke you o!
You will note that anything I say, I justify it from your own books: Is my offence is selective cherry-picking!?

so antichristian your Quran calls the Messiah lord? But you can't call the Christ Lord but honor him lesser than Muhammad?

This is confusing, and you said Adam was forgiven from going to hell yet it says they will all go to hell?

Even creativeorbit said the Messiah lord will follow Muhammad??

NairaLTQ:
Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

Questions:
1. Knowing that the Qur'an is clear and simple to understand, is Allah associating the Messiah as partners with him?
2. Is this Quranic verse an error or mistake OR is it exactly what Allah intend to say?
3. Does Allah truly want us to make the Messiah LORD with him?

OR
Do we need to twist Arabic Grammar to make the verse consistent with what Allah says?


Quran 19:71
There is not one of you who will not go down to it (the Fire), that is a fixed Decree of your Lord

Meaning that ALL Muslims will at least first be in Hell Fire.

Quran 19:72
Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees

After ALL you Muslims enter the Fire, THEN Allah will THEREAFTER remove the good Muslims and leave other people in the Fire

1. I am sure the first thing you will say is that, "the verse doesn't say that" . So, strictly from the Arabic , what does it say?
2. Why do you think you will first have to go into hell fire before you are freed by Allah?
3. How long do you think you will be in the fire before Allah comes to free you: 1000 years!?





I am not even making any arguments: I am presenting may case based on reasons.
What you seem to want to do is to give me your own views without answering for my reasons AND you want me to take it as the final testament.
I am not here to provoke you o!
You will note that anything I say, I justify it from your own books: Is my offence is selective cherry-picking!?

so antichristian your Quran calls the Messiah lord? But you can't call the Christ Lord but honor him lesser than Muhammad?

This is confusing, and you said Adam was forgiven from going to hell yet it says they will all go to hell?

TenQ:
I know that Antichristian is your brother and both of you are sympathetic to Islam and the Quran. But trust me on this. Muslims on the average hate the truth. Muslims will resist the truth strongly in other that Islam might be correct.

All I do is to show you what your religious books say: unfortunately, they are not usually what you want to hear.
I understand Islam because I almost became a Muslim (thanks to Ahmed Deedat). Before reciting the shahada, I decided to read the Quran. It was eventually reading the Quran by myself that snapped me out of my delusion. I decided to search for the truth by asking Questions. Here I am.

Muslims don't ask Questions: they just believe whatever their scholars have told them.
Unfortunately,
Most of what your scholars are telling you are lies upon lies upon more lies. I am sure, even you probably believe in many these lies

1. Allah is the same God of the Jews and the Christians
2. The Quran is the Exact Verbatim words of Allah
3. The Quran is Perfectly Preserved
4. There is only ONE Quran unlike the bible that has KJV, NIV, GNT etc
5. Christians worship three Gods
6. Jesus was given a book called Injeel
7. Jesus was not Crucified and neither did He die on the Cross
8. Jesus is coming back to convert every Christian to Islam
9. All prophets and Patriarchs of old are Muslims
10. Mohammed is a Prophet and Servant of God
11. Mohammed is the greatest of all Messengers and Prophets of God
12. Jubril is the same as Angel Gabriel
13. Islam has come to Replace Christianity and Judaism.
14. Mohammed couldn’t read nor write
15. All the Prophets of God from Adam to Moses to Jesus are Muslims.
16. All Muslims will enter Paradise
17. Scientific Miracles in the Quran


Until you ask requisite questions and you are willing to swallow the painful pill of truth, you will remain in darkness thinking that you are in the light.





Suppose I invite you to join my religion NUDINITY, where in our paradise, our reward are
1. Nothing we do in paradise is a sin
2. We will have eternal erections
3. We shall be deflowering a new girl every day
4. We shall drink all we want and we shall not be intoxicated
5. We even have a 3D market with images of mean and women (like a brothel) that we can pick our choices form
What will you say about the source of such a religion?

Is this a Reward or a Temptation?

lol but Muhammad could not read nor write? 😲 Because of you I had to verify this and realize it's true, so that means he didn't write it nor could he even read what they wrote.

Wait I am trying to wrap my head around how someone can believe a book was given to Muhammad, his illiteracy wasn't cured by the same God that made a one year old baby to talk. Yet still believe that Muhammad is greater than that baby and his book corrects what others have written.

because I believe it's one of such "essentials" that claimed the age of Aisha to be underaged

CreativeOrbit:
So let me get this straight—you believe you can grasp the full depth of the Qur'an while ignoring the very tools that have been used for over 1,400 years to preserve, explain, and contextualize it? That’s not insight, that’s delusion wrapped in arrogance.

Tafsirs, Hadiths, and Asbāb al-Nuzūl aren’t optional—they're essential to understanding the intended meanings, not just what your uninformed ego projects onto the text.

Your approach strips the Qur'an of its divine precision and replaces it with reckless guesswork. If anything, your stance proves why unqualified interpretation does more harm than good.

to be honest so far I haven't seen you use these essentials to properly debunk tenq guesswork and misinterpretations. You did debunk the claim of Hubal not being Allah by using the Quran.

But then are you saying that the interpretations of these essentials are more valid that the texts in the Quran.

You know Christians say, Spirit gives life but the text brings death, so to some of them the answer may already be given.

Are you saying that the essentials are more valid than what's in the text, .

AntiChristian:
Same way you need the the HOLY SPIRIT (that was absent when the Bible was written) to interprete the Bible that was written independenly then later selected and approved by some trinitarians!

CreativeOrbit, you sabi waste your time o!

TenQ no be person you fit reason with on an intellectual level!

so are you equating the Holy Spirit mentioned in the bible to Tafsirs, Asbāb al-Nuzūl, Hadiths, and other islamic books?

JimRohn:
Your

2. Hubal = Allah? Absolute Nonsense.
Hubal was just one of 300+ idols placed around the Kaaba. Allah had no image, no idol, and no association with Hubal. Even pre-Islamic Arabs distinguished between Allah (the supreme creator) and lesser gods like Hubal. Qur’an 31:25 literally states: “They will surely say, ‘Allah created them.’” Hubal was a local idol—not a “visible form” of Allah. You clearly don't understand the religion you're trying to criticize.

are you now saying that the same idol worshippers who say that Hubal is the highest God and who say that Allah created them, are confused if it is said that Hubal and Allah are the same to them. Because frankly Allah means the god and it's not a name like how Hubal is.

JimRohn:
2. Qur’an 5:51 – “Awliyaa” means allies, protectors, patrons—not mere “friends” as you claim. Again, context: it was a time of political tension, not Sunday brunch. But you ignore scholarly consensus and linguistic depth because it suits your agenda to oversimplify.

3. Qur’an 1:6–7 – You're stretching now. That verse is a prayer, not a doctrine of exclusion. Interpreting "those who earned wrath" as all Jews and "those who are astray" as all Christians is your own projection, not a universally held or mandated interpretation.

Another response agreeing that Muslims are taught not to ally themselves with Jews and Christians even though they claim they serve the same God.

Jimrohn I would have believed it was tenqs own projection but a quick research on what they text means is stated to be that Muhammad taught that those whom God is angry with are the Jews and those went astray are the Christians.

The translation should have been sinners and those who do evil, it amazes me that majority of us didn't know that this is what Muslims pray early 5am in the morning loudly and five times a day. I am not even sure some Muslims are even aware of this.

But it makes us ask, why the consistent mention of Jews and Christians, was Islam created to fight them?

CreativeOrbit:
2. Qur’an 5:51 – The word “awliyaa” in Arabic has a range of meanings: allies, guardians, political protectors—not casual friendships. The context was the betrayal by some Jewish and Christian tribes during the Prophet’s time, not a ban on coexistence or friendship. Qur’an 60:8 literally states: “Allah does not forbid you from being kind and just toward those who have not fought you.” But of course, you left that out—because your argument falls apart when the full picture is presented.


Your final claim—that Muslims marginalize others—is sheer hypocrisy.
gohf AntiChristian TenQ

Creative I know I am cutting out from your words to tenq but it is mind-blowing what you have written here.

Putting this into the Nigerian context, a Muslim could rightly say they have the right to be unkind towards the igbos who fought them in the civil war.

I think I am beginning to understand why some igbos in the north are wary of the Muslims, such reaction isn't one you expect from those who are welcomed. I have not experienced such marginalization and I have had some "good" Muslim friends but don't you think it's wrong to call those who have or may have faced such hypocritical?

CreativeOrbit:
2. Qur’an 5:51 – The word “awliyaa” in Arabic has a range of meanings: allies, guardians, political protectors—not casual friendships. The context was the betrayal by some Jewish and Christian tribes during the Prophet’s time, not a ban on coexistence or friendship. Qur’an 60:8 literally states: “Allah does not forbid you from being kind and just toward those who have not fought you.” But of course, you left that out—because your argument falls apart when the full picture is presented.


Your final claim—that Muslims marginalize others—is sheer hypocrisy.
gohf AntiChristian TenQ

Creative I know I am cutting out from your words to tenq but it is mind-blowing what you have written here.

Putting this into the Nigerian context, a Muslim could rightly say they have the right to be unkind towards the igbos who fought them in the civil war.

I think I am beginning to understand why some igbos in the north are wary of the Muslims, such reaction isn't one you expect from those who are welcomed. I have not experienced such marginalization and I have had some "good" Muslim friends but don't you think it's wrong to call those who have or may have faced such hypocritical?

TheJustPath:
On Qur’an 5:51
You mistranslate “awliyaa” as simply “friends” to support your narrative. That’s dishonest. The term refers to political allegiance and protection—particularly during wartime treachery. If you actually cared about the Qur’an in its totality, you’d cite Qur’an 60:8:
"Allah does not forbid you from being kind and just to those who have not fought you or driven you from your homes."
But that verse doesn’t serve your agenda, so of course you skip it.

so not only creativeorbit but another one shares the teaching to be not about "friends" but about politics.

Where do you find ourselves as Nigerians when a major religious group teaches themselves to not support non-muslims or Jew or christians in politics.

Now thejustpath, not sure quoting Quran 60:8 supports a peaceful Muslim or why you quoted it, because in the case where it can also be interpreted as giving them the right to be wicked to anyone who offends them, it supports a self justified radical group that believes they have been fought or stolen from.

CreativeOrbit:
2. Hubal and Allah Are Not the Same

The claim that Hubal is another name for Allah is historically inaccurate. Hubal was a pagan idol placed in the Kaaba by the Quraysh. In contrast, "Allah" was known before Islam as the name of the supreme Creator God—even among pagan Arabs.


gohf AntiChristian TenQ honesttalk21

Allah means the God, so you are saying that the God was the name of the supreme creator God?

Now I want you to read something;
In pre-Islamic Arabia, the Kaaba housed a statue of Hubal, a deity revered by the Quraysh tribe. Hubal was a prominent god, with his idol placed inside the Kaaba, sometimes above the dry well, and his position near the Black Stone suggests a connection between the two, according to Answering Islam. Some scholars, like Julius Wellhausen, suggest the idea that Hubal may have originally been the Black Stone itself, or even an early form of Allah.


Is this historically a lie, because even till date Muslims venerate the black stone and kabba, to you it maybe for a different reason, but are both structures not man made and the same

CreativeOrbit:
4. Qur’an 5:51 – 'Do not take Jews and Christians as awliyaa'

The word awliyaa has various meanings: protectors, political allies, guardians. It is not a blanket prohibition on friendship. Many scholars agree that this verse refers specifically to political alliances in contexts of conflict, where loyalty to justice and ethical conduct must not be compromised. The Qur’an elsewhere encourages kindness and justice toward non-Muslims who are not hostile (Qur’an 60::

"Allah does not forbid you from being kind and just toward those who have not fought you because of your religion..."

now tenq gave the interpretation to be that Muslims are taught not to be friends with Jews and Christians. Now you creativeorbit gives us a different interpretation, now my question is, are you saying that Muslims are taught not to vote for non-muslims, or to be specific are Muslims taught not to take Jews and Christians as their guardians, protectors nor support them political?

So I came across an interesting debate here on Nairaland between tenq and creativeorbit concerning Hubal and his three daughters, at first I ignored it, but in an attempt to Google if some of the info was true I came across this.



It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.
As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God.


Now Muslims believe that Quran is perfect and infallible, and is given authority to correct the errors of the Tanakh and the Bible which they believe has been corrupted.

It brings a lot of questions and more doubts concerning Muhammad and the Quran when Muhammad claims to have been deceived by the devil

AntiChristian:
What questions?

read the post I quoted and you will see the questions

TenQ:
Can you see that your bias has made you unable to comprehend even simple conversations.
I never claimed even once that theft in mosques proves a deficiency in Islam. Check again.
Instead, I showed that even though the church and mosques are supposed to be holy places, people come there to steal. And I used footwears and phones as examples in mosques and churches.
But your bias made you see otherwise .
You need to read again and comment on exactly what I wrote not what you felt I said. The summary is that the behaviour of one or two thieves in a church or mosque make us behave with caution even though the thieves are minorities. Hence my argument is that as long as there are a few minorities of Muslims with the radical interpretation of Islam, can we as Christians take them for granted?

Cool down bro! I am not your enemy!


As far as Jesus is concerned, no one gets to paradise without Him. Meaning that Muslims will go to hell because they have not received the gift from Gospel of Salvation.

On the other hand, for you Muslims, we have a contradiction
1. Allah says that Christians, Jews and Sabeans will enter paradise.
2. You Muslims say the Jews are cursed and the Christians are Mislead.
How then can the cursed and the mislead enter paradise?
3. The Sabeans worship the stars/constellations and a sect of them worship satan directly. How did Allah say these will go to paradise? Is it because they claim John the Baptist to be their prophet?

Your claim that
The Quran acknowledges that salvation is open to righteous Jews, Christians, and Sabians before the message of Islam was completed (Quran 2:62). is complete falsehood as Allah nor your prophet never said that.

Do I have to remind you that the condition of Quran 2:62 are
a. Belief in God
b. Belief in the last day
c. Doing righteous deeds

I challenge you to give me where Allah says the condition is before the message of Islam was concluded.

It seems you forgot that Islam was the religion of Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jesus! LOL!



You just buttress my point.
The paradise of Jesus is DIFFERENT from the paradise of Mohammed.

It's not the same place.

If the Paradise of Jesus is NOT your paradise, you may have some rethinking to do o.

Your paradise seems to be a place of debauchery: your scholars say that nothing is sin in your paradise.

Your paradise seems more like a Temptation rather than reward for obedience to the God of the heavens and the earth.



There is n contradiction between the Torah and the Gospels, what exist is a REJECTION by the modern Jews of the message of the Gospel. You forget that the Tanakh is the Old Testament of the Christians. LOL!!

What is the original message of the Torah and Injeel?
Do you have them or you have manufactured conjectures as usual?

Unfortunately, it is worse that this as it seems that you know better than Allah.

If the Torah, Injeel, Zabur and others not mentioned by name in the Qur'an are the words of Allah and non can change Allah's words, tell me if you aren't going against your God!

Secondly, Allah asked us Christians to judge by what he has revealed in our Injeel: Is Allah asking us to judge by that which is corrupted?

DidnI not remind you that even in the Qur'an, Jesus made lawful things made unlawful for the children of Israel?

Allah would be wrong or ignorant if indeed the Torah and the Gospel are corrupted or you know better than Allah as your God NEVER claimed your insinuations about our scripture

Who is wrong then between Allah and you?


Are you aware that if you are correct, then Allah would be either Ignorant or Wrong because Allah attests to our scripture. Your prophet also attests to our scripture 600AD.

Was your your prophet telling lies when he said he believes in the Torah and the one who sent it or was that Taqqiya?


See how you conjectures scattered like a pack of cards! LOL!!


Talk is cheap!
You are manufacturing conjectures again
Can you show me exactly where Allah or your prophet said anything about what the Messiah is for his prophecy is all about the Torah you claimed has been corrupted.



But Jesus wasn't created by the word be!
Have you forgotten that Jibril was Sent to BLOW into the Farjaha of Mary!?
You forgot that Jesus was a spirit from Allah cast down to Mary?

Do you know any man who bears the title of a Spirit from Allah and his Word apart from Jesus?

Don't just repeat your scholars consensus, give me evidence from Allah or your prophet!

You seem to forget that in your deen, there are just two spirits. One is Jibril and the other is Jesus (even though you don't even know what a spirit is)



Why are you muddling two different things
1. Are you saying that John the Baptist was filled with Jibril from the womb?
2. Let me remind you of the significance according to your prophet.

You didn't answer the question!
Why was it that only Jesus and Mary satan did not touch at birth?


Is it untrue that just as Allah molded clay into Adam, Jesus moulded clay into a bird?
Is it untrue that just as Allah breathe into the moulded clay of Adam, Jesus breathe into the moulded clay of the bird?
Is it untrue that just as Adam came to life, the clay bird came to life?

Have you forgotten that Allah gave a challenge about gods who cannot even create a fly?


Qur'an 22:73
Those on whom, besides Allah, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! and if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition!


Why is Jesus the only co-creator of life with Allah?


According to Islam, Jesus did NOT die. He is ALIVE with Allah. Do you know anyone in Islam like this?

Prophets are supposed to be in the graves doing salat but Jesus is different. He is with Allah!

The Question is why?



LOL!
How is Jesus being born from a virgin a sign? A sign to who? Who were the witnesses for it to be a sign?

Why was it even necessary that Jesus comes through a virgin?

I asked you to give theological answers from Islam to my questions but all you were doing was to negate divine nature of Jesus. Unfortunately, my questions wasn't to prove the devine nature of Jesus, NO! It was to make you see the uniqueness of Jesus who you depreciated for your prophet Mohammed!



When you don't have answers, come to the people of the book to show you rather than cooking up conjectures.
Unfortunately, you won't.

This same Jesus that Allah invested everything he gave no other human being was the same one Allah destroyed his ministry by creating Christianity.

Allah deceived the Jews that they killed Jesus
Allah deceived the Romans that they killed Jesus
At the same time
Allah deceived the Apostles of Jesus that Jesus was crucified and died.
Allah then deceived Mary the mother of Jesus that Jesus was crucified and died


Allah followed up this deception with the Disciples burying Jesus
And Allah showed them Jesus resurrecting on the third day and showing Himself to the disciples
Allah showed Jesus going up to heaven in the presence of all his disciples in Galilee.

Allah then waited for 630 years to tell the Christians that ALL was an Elaborate LIE

Tell me, is this your God?

I wish you are on clubhouse. I wonder what creativeorbit and Antichristian answers to these questions are

AntiChristian:
Jesus will follow Muhammad.

lol the one who will judge will follow the one who is among the people. 😂 😂. Why not just make Muhammad the judge or appoint him to a higher position

CreativeOrbit:
Thank you for your comment. Let me address your concerns directly and respectfully.

In Islam, Jesus (peace be upon him) is indeed the Messiah, but this title refers to his unique mission—not divinity or superiority over other prophets. His return before the Day of Judgement is to fulfill a role decreed by God: to uphold justice and rule by the Shariah revealed in the Qur’an, not to bring a new law.

Regarding your question about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) being under Jesus' judgment—Islam does not see it as a matter of hierarchy after death. Prophet Muhammad’s mission is complete; he delivered the final revelation. Jesus, upon returning, will follow that final revelation—the Qur’an. This does not make Jesus superior to Muhammad; rather, it shows that Jesus himself will confirm the truth of Muhammad’s message.

No prophet is above God’s law. Prophet Muhammad lived by the Qur’an, and Jesus will judge by it. This reflects continuity in divine guidance, not a competition between prophets.

Therefore, the Islamic view maintains respect and clarity: each prophet serves his divinely appointed role, and Jesus’ future role will affirm—not override—what Prophet Muhammad brought.

lol you are still avoiding the subject of the matter by repeating your many words.

Let me repeat it, divinity is not in question, overriding is not in question.

The question is will Muhammad submit to the rule and judgement by Jesus, yes or no?

Are you afraid of what your answer may imply, don't be afraid of the truth and be honest.

CreativeOrbit:
In Islam, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is regarded as the final Messenger and Seal of the Prophets (Qur’an 33:40). Jesus the Messiah (peace be upon him) is also highly revered as one of the greatest prophets, but not divine. According to authentic Islamic teachings, Jesus will return before the Day of Judgment to fulfill specific roles, including restoring justice and correcting misbeliefs about his nature.

focus on the subject of discuss, which isn't about if Jesus is divine or not. You made mention of Jesus being the Messiah without explaining what that actually means, neither are you stating the specific roles that you say Jesus will fulfill at his return before the Day of Judgement. Do you even know what it means to call Jesus the Messiah not just a prophet or an anointed person, but the Messiah. Do you know what it means or you are just posting information.

However, it is not correct to suggest that Prophet Muhammad will "submit to the judgment of Jesus" in a way that implies superiority or hierarchy after death. Prophet Muhammad has completed his mission and passed away, having fulfilled the final revelation—the Qur'an—which is the standard of judgment for all people, including Jesus upon his return.

to you it is incorrect to suggest that prophet Muhammad will submit to God's will of giving judgement to Jesus? Meanwhile I am asking you all a question not making a suggestion. Now you seem to have a need to establish or imply the superiority or hierarchy after death by stating again that Muhammad brought the Quran, how does that nullify or answer the question. If Jesus is the anointed one to judge by the standard of your Quran will Muhammad submit to his judgement? Is this question too hard, or you cannot just accept that Muhammad will follow a judge appointed by God? And if you cannot accept that, the question is why?

When Jesus returns, he will follow the Shariah (law) of Muhammad, not bring a new law. This is supported by Hadith, such as in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, where the Prophet said Jesus will "break the cross, kill the swine, and abolish the jizya," and that he will rule by the Qur’an and Sunnah, not the Gospel.

here again you are not following the discuss, there wasn't a mention of Jesus bringing in a new law, but using your very believe that Jesus would judge with that your shariah law and rule by the Quran. Answer the question will Muhammad be under that same rule, that Jesus will rule by with the Quran.

So, in Islamic belief, Jesus (peace be upon him) will be a follower of the final Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him), upon his return—not the other way around.

gohf AntiChristian

I can see why some people have problems with some of you Muslims, how did you come about this conclusion. So to you Jesus who will rule and judge others with the Quran will be a follower of Muhammad, okay please explain to us why that is the case.

And don't say something silly like because God gave Muhammad the Quran, did God giving Muhammad the Quran mean he is above the ruling of the Quran?

Note Antichristian you have still failed to answer the question, will Muhammad follow Jesus, yes or no?

AntiChristian:
The Prophet (salallahu alayhi wasalam) said if Moses (Alayhi salatu wasalam) were to be alive he'll have no choice but to follow him.

So it's clear even Jesus will follow Muhammad when he comes back.

so in truth you do honor Muhammad more than Jesus even though you claim to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the king of God's kingdom and the one to judge. At first may you deny you do but then you justified yourself by claiming it's because Muhammad is the last prophet so you honor him more than Jesus the king of God's kingdom that you are supposed to be lead into by prophet Muhammad.

Okay, explain to us how God's anointed king and judge would follow Muhammad who is "supposed to submit to God's judgement", how? because it's sounds like Muhammad is boasting that Moses will follow him and you all believe that.

Tell us what Muhammad role in God's kingdom is supposed to be

Is prayer not supposed to be personal and private not a public announcement?

Are you praying for the salvation of his soul?
If so praise God, if not, then what?

Well I pray that you are not been misguided though, 👍🏾👍🏾

Anyone who wants to be holy just wants to be persecuted by the world. You think this weak willed pleasure loving badst***Ds would want to endure such, to pick up their cross and follow God who ain't their servant to grant their every wish and whimps?

The love of many has waxed cold, how many even have true faith..