₦airaland Forum

JimRohn:
Let’s cut through the tired cycle of repetition and move straight to the point. You’ve asked a question that has already been addressed — repeatedly — by CreativeOrbit, AntiChristian, and many others, but it seems like your tactic is to ignore answers that don’t fit your narrative, then pretend the question remains unanswered. That’s intellectual dishonesty, not genuine inquiry.

lol I did not ignore their answers if you understood the discuss and kept track of it, you would realize that I asked them to explain which they failed to do and even ignored. If you tell me the sun is white and I ask you to explain to me why it looks yellow and you say it is white, is that me ignoring the answer or questioning the logic behind such an answer. Or are you expecting me to believe and accept whatever you all respond as an answer to my query?

1. “Will Muhammad submit to the judgment of Jesus the Messiah?”

This question betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of Islamic eschatology, or perhaps a deliberate misrepresentation. The Islamic tradition does not place Jesus as judge over Muhammad, nor does it need to. In Islam, Jesus (`Isa) returns not as a new lawgiver, but as a follower of the final revelation — the Qur’an. And yes, the same Jesus you speak of will rule by the law given to Muhammad — not the other way around.

just look at yourself, instead of answering the question, you are analyzing the question to strawman it, isn't that, in your words, intellectual dishonesty?
First off, I NEVER ASKED nor mentioned anything about Jesus coming as a new lawgiver. The question now is, where did you get the justification to deviate from what I asked and insinuate a betrayal or a deliberate misinterpretion if you are not making baseless accusations to an obviously simple question?

One who is wise and has understanding would have realize where and when I asked, based on Jesus using the Quran to judge would Muhammad follow him. Can't keep repeating the same logical question based on your fellows interpretation and have you here call it a misunderstanding of Islamic eschatology, blame it on those who brought about the misunderstanding and leave the innocent question alone if you cannot understand nor answer it.

Now Jesus who will rule by the law given to Muhammad, will Muhammad submit to Jesus ruling, based on what you have said? You can twist and avoid the question but it should be simple enough for you to answer.

Let me add this as well, Jesus following the Quran does that make him a follower of Muhammad who was used to bring the Quran or a follower of Allah.

This thing should be simple enough, Allah sends Muhammad with a message then appoints someone else to judge with that message. Are you saying Muhammad is equal to Allah or above the one who will judge others with the Quran?



TenQ gohf AntiChristian CreativeOrbit

honesttalk21:
The same diarrhea or what? Rather than spewing your vomit why not tell how my summation that fallen angels are demons? You do not have the capacity for that?


Luke 8:2 "and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out"

Matt 8:28-28
When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.

29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?

Mr know it all or too much tenq please tell what the origin of demons is?
Maybe you can have gohf help if you're too lazy or incapable of doing the research yourself.

Does the creation story in the Bible address it? Quit the childish haughtiness and say.

none of the biblical verses you quoted highlight that fallen angels are demons.

Now I do not agree with everything narialtq states, some say fallen angels are demons and some say otherwise.

But I can pick one question from what he wrote and oblige you for an answer please. Do you Muslims believe that Gabriel or Jubril impregnated Mary?

AntiChristian:
You guys are simply dubious! How does this in any way mean Allah is calling Jesus lord?

This is a huge bunkum! A complete balderdash!

You ever wrote lord above in the verse then later changed it to Lord!

Well, if this is what you mean then lord has no meaning according to the context in the verse that you claim is laughable. Allah referred to jesus just as He did referred to those who worshipped idols!

I understand Elohim in the Bible can be used for your YHVH, satan, man, idols and Angels.

You did not answer the two questions

Will you say that the verse accuses anyone of taking the Messiah as Lord?

Is the understanding of this verse not saying that there is only one God who is Lord and the Messiah who is also Lord, but the rest should not be taken as Lords?

Blaming my autocorrect for changing lord to Lord, but both are the same but are different from LORD. It's still the same you that will pretend that I haven't clarified this for you a number of times.

AntiChristian:
Asking the same question in another way does not change it.

You'll still refuse to accept the truth!

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Are we from Israel?

And Jesus's dispensation had lapsed!

it's a question based on what you have said. Did you not say all who follow Allah are Muslims. Did you not say that israelites are Muslims.

Okay why not explain to us how it is true that Jesus who was sent to Muslims was not sent to you?

Are you saying because Jesus is not on earth his message to the Muslims is no more?

You asking are you from Israel when you said following Allah is not a racial thing, is confusing, either you redefine your interpretation of those who follow Allah and explain or you answer the question and explain.

Is not about refusing the truth but refusing lies.

Answer this as well, was Jesus sent to Muslims? Yes or no

Just know
If you say yes, then you are a Muslim
If you say no, and say to Israel then that means Israel were never Muslims and are different from muslims. Or explain in clear terms what you mean.

AntiChristian:
The biblical Jesus call his God father. "My father and your father, my God and your God". I think you know that verse too. That's your biblical exaggerations not Islam's. God, Allah has no son in Jesus or other humans.

are you saying that the Jesus of the Quran and the Jesus of the Bible are two different persons?

TenQ:
Don't mind them.

Since they removed the swearing to Islamic sections, I've noticed that. Initially I thought it was the Nairaland SpamBots until I saw that even screenshots were also deleted.

This can only only be humans behind the removals

this should be their biggest opportunity to win over heretics and atheists, but I am not sure they would be able to win over a level head person with basic logical reasoning with their contradictions which lead to more confusions that they are refusing to face. They should be seeing the benefits of being able to properly answer unbelievers and explain why they believe but their responses lack cognitive explanations.

TenQ:
Mr honesttalk21


I told you that two nights ago, at about 10pm, I arrested one Jinn and beat it black and blue. I asked it to kneel and raise up it's hand till about 4am when I finally released it to go because it was crying profusely and begging me. You will pity this Afreet when you see it.

BTW: I wanted to snap a picture of it to show you but my phone's battery died out


Why are you not responding, Do you disbelieve me?

😂

honesttalk21:
You really don't get it. There's some truth in the Bible and there are the untruths besides an explanation about fallen angels is best taken from the place where it's mentioned. You get?

okay why don't you state for us the things in the bible that you find as truths. It would also be interesting to note how you accept those ones as true.

TenQ:
This is Islamic Taqqiya (deception)

Jihad simply means holy war/struggle.
It is enjoined for Muslims to wage jihad on all non-muslims. Because in Islam, there are only two divides.
1. Dar al-Islam ("house or abode of Islam" or "house of peace": This refers to lands under Muslim rule where Islamic law (Sharia) prevails and Muslims live in peace and security. It includes both Muslims and non-Muslims (dhimmis) who are protected under Muslim governance.
2. Dar al-Harb ("house or abode of war": This denotes lands not under Muslim rule or Sharia law, considered enemy territories where, classically, a state of conflict or war could exist until they accept Muslim sovereignty or peace treaties.

Muslims should kill idolaters if they refuse to become Muslims. They don't have a choice

Christians and Jews must convert to Islam or pay the Jizyah (humiliation tax) and live as a second class citizen if they will not convert to Islam.

This is Jihad as defined by Allah even though modern Muslims will want to redefine Jihad to mean means "struggle" or "striving" in the path of Allah and it is defined as encompasses multiple dimensions such as struggle (establishing Islam) with a Muslim's Wealth, Money, Position , Verbal, Intellectual and real warfare.

Qur'an 9:41
So go out, no matter whether you are lightly or heavily armed, and struggle in God’s way with your possessions and your lives: this is better for you, if you only knew.

The hadiths also primarily define Jihad in terms of WAR and WARFARE!

Sir I can pick up a number of points from what you wrote

1. Some modern day Muslims are trying to change the meaning and interpretation of their own text.

This could mean that you are telling us that the original meaning and usage of this text, especially the term Jihad, is being redefine to mean something which it is not. If this is true couldn't there be a genuine intention to them correcting it's meaning and usage. Which could also state that they admit that they believe that their earlier practitioners of their texts were wrong.

2. Could we also infer that apart from it not fostering peace, there's a possibility that even if the war nature isn't popularly practice the intimidation and subtly discrimination is still in practice as a form of Jihad by those in power able to do so. As we can't be counting those unable to win a war nor rich enough, can we say that if Muslims are the ruling class, the wealthy they would enforce jihad or would they abolish it with their power

Expanse2020:
so you think Muslims are like Christianity who can't afford 20-30k chicken during the Christmas and easter...
Make them call ram 1M we will still buy am in plenty.....
Allah has make it easy for us
You don't look us through the Hajj..
This is an act in religion
Not a play..
Show us where your religion say you should kill chicken, is that not the reason most of you opt with Sardines fish on your fist day😂🤣🤣

what exactly is the use of the sacrifice to allah

Lol they will remove and block tire till they close down this thread

P1PrinceKT:
Even Animal can not innocently be killed talk less of human being. The only person that can be killed is who killed or help in killing Muslims not how terrorist used to raid a town and killed many innocent people.
You can as well go and search "what was was the reason of first Jihad in Islam".

so how do you prove that some helped in killing Muslims? Or is it by association?

P1PrinceKT:
Jihad has rule. And it was provided to prevent Muslim from other infidel's domination and oppression. What you're seeing now is not Jihad known my God. However, u can wide your knowledge.

Is this a justification for Jihad? Then those who practice and do it are they not right in getting rid of possible infidel domination and oppression, in their own way?

P1PrinceKT:
Jihad has rule. And it was provided to prevent Muslim from other infidel's domination and oppression. What you're seeing now is not Jihad known my God. However, u can wide your knowledge.

This is a response to someone's post that anything Jihad is evil, is this response supposed to be a form of justification for Jihad?

Tenq what's your take on this

honesttalk21:
Small wonders your ignorance leads to wreckless diarrhea and typically typing nonsense.

The idea that demons are actually fallen angels is strongly backed by Scripture, highlighting their rebellion against God and their connection to Satan.

For instance, in Isaiah 14:12-15, we witness Lucifer's fall as he tries to elevate himself above God, which marks the beginning of demonic forces.
Additionally, Revelation 12:7-9 illustrates a heavenly battle where Michael and his angels confront the dragon—Satan—who, along with his followers, is cast down to earth. This connection emphasizes their ongoing resistance to divine intentions.

Ephesians 6:12 further clarifies this conflict against spiritual evil, confirming that demons are indeed fallen angels standing against God's will.

it is interesting how you turn to the bible, the one that is corrupted to justify what's inside the Quran that is perfect

TenQ:
Here was the Original post several months ago



https://www.nairaland.com/8169188/man-comfortably-represent-satan-lying

ah several months ago was my first reaction but on reading it, I couldn't help but laugh and understand why honesttalk was provoked but has he answered how the demon was caught and tied and if it's something only that man could or others in Muslim do it as well

Read Quran 9:30
The Jews say: "Ezra ('Uzayr) is Allah's son,"29 and the Christians say: "The Messiah is the son of Allah." These are merely verbal assertions in imitation of the sayings of those unbelievers who preceded them.30 May Allah ruin them. How do they turn away from the Truth?

So I ask AI did the Jews really say that

No, Jews do not believe that Ezra was the son of God. The belief that Ezra was the son of God is mentioned in the Quran, but it's attributed to a small group of Jewish sects rather than the mainstream Jewish tradition.

It being attributed is more like an accusation than a generally accepted fact. Then the Quran records that it was unbelievers that taught Christians to say that Jesus is the son of God, well I do agree Jesus is not the son of Allah. 😁

So the problem isn't taking Jesus as Allah but saying that he is the son of Allah.

It's like saying well it's okay if you believe Jesus as long as you don't believe Jesus is the son of the living God.

I have a few debates with Arabic studied Muslims that speak English, and they ran away, the subject was being a child of God

AntiChristian:
You started a new thread, is it for two of you only?

I don't need to follow your lengthy argument to know your position!

Where did Allah call Jesus "Lord" or LORD or lord?

let me repeat it, Lord, Adoni is different from YHVH(LORD)

Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

This is from the At-Tawbah, which conveys a message directly from God to humanity.

Is the understanding of this verse not saying that there is only one God who is Lord and the Messiah who is also Lord, but the rest should not be taken as Lords?

The Messiah son of Mary is Jesus, whom it is written Allah and the Messiah.

Let's leave aside the possible accusation from that verse that the Jews were not commanded to worship one God, which is laughable. Will you say that the verse accuses anyone of taking the Messiah as Lord?

AntiChristian:
The question should not arise at all since Jesus has the demography he was sent to! He said he has his sheep given to him by his father in John 10:26-29. Since he wasn't sent to us then we have no business obeying him.

And the message of Jesus has been abrogated by the Qu'ran just as Jesus's message abrogates the Torah!

by his father, you mean the God, right? the one you call Allah who sent Jesus?

Okay you are quoting from the igneel the part you believe isn't corrupted right, let's look at it and see if you are correct that you have no business obeying Him, even if I do not disagree with you saying you are not one of his sheep anyway.

John 10
John.10.24 - The Jewish leaders surrounded him and asked, "How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."
John.10.25 - Jesus replied, "I have already told you, and you don't believe me. The proof is what I do in the name of my Father.
John.10.26 - But you don't believe me because you are not part of my flock.

Now you as a Muslim claim to believe in Jesus and say everyone who serves God is a Muslim. From this incorruptible statement by Jesus that those who do not believe Jesus as the Messiah are not part of his flock.. therefore we can also say that those who believe are part of his flock.

1. If you say you believe in Jesus and you are not part of his flock, then what are you?

What was the purpose of Jesus going to the flock, let's read
John.10.27 - My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John.10.28 - I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me.

2. If you believe Jesus is the Messiah do you follow and obey him?

3. Do you believe that Jesus came to give you eternal life, by God's authority?

This are simple questions from the part of the igneel that's not corrupted according to one of you.


Okay. Hmm

You are not using the word abrogate properly because Jesus did not do away with the Torah but fulfilled the promises contained in them, which was the very purpose of he Torah which also contained temporal laws and priesthood which is what was abrogated by God. So the message doesn't abrogate the Torah, it is good news speaking concerning the fulfillment contained in the Torah. So to say that the message of Jesus was done away with by the Quran you would have to explain to us, how and why that is?

If you are basing that the Quran did to the gospel what it did to the Torah, because you see it that the gospel is against the Torah and destroys it, so also the Quran does so. Or you agree and understand that to be incorrect and that the gospel is a fulfillment, so show us how the Quran fulfills and abrogates the gospel(which is the message of Jesus)?

Any Muslim can try and attempt these questions please.

AntiChristian:
Yes, they and anyone who believes in Allah, worships Him and submit to Him alone are Muslims.

Race does not matter!

okay so if the Israelites were Muslims according to you and Jesus was sent to the Muslims, why are you saying Jesus was not sent to you?

This man and his subtle way of attacking those who will still say he respects

honesttalk21:
For he may feign forgetting.


If he didn't tag you perhaps you were not his friend yet

you tagged me, and from his response it had little to do with the title you wrote nor the response I read so share the link, so I can understand your dialogue with him

I find it very strange that Muslims claim to believe in Jesus but do not obey him. Not just Muslims, anyone, even those who call themselves believers. Saying you believe but you do not obey is a lie not taught by God.

Now do Muslims who claim to believe Jesus, obey him, https://www.nairaland.com/8437720/muslims-obey-jesus#135540533

Having taken away what some claim to have been the corruption of the gospel, my question detailed a bit in the above link, is that do you obey the other parts that are not corrupted?

RightChanneI:
What is false? How does Adam observe his own salah and how does he observe his own hajj one of the five pillars of Islam for calling him a Muslim?




😂😂 so allah the founder of Islam as you claimed forgot to revealed the five pillars of Islam to Adam the first Muslim as you said right?




Is allah a lecturer, is allah of yesterday different from today, your allah didn't revealed any book to Adam on how to worship him yet according to you, Adam was the first Muslim despite the fact that Quran affirmed muhammad as the first Muslim on earth. It seems you know Islam more than the author of Quran!

😂😂.
any Muslim can please come and answer how is Allah the founder and Adam the first muslim. How the he find it and how did Adam follow it, come and explain

AntiChristian:
Because the only religion with Allah is Islam.
And all those people submitted to Allah totally becoming Muslims.

The issue becomes when any of you claim that Allah is the God of Israel. Are you saying that Israel were Muslims? Yes or no

AntiChristian:
Jesus wasn't sent to us. He was sent to the children of Israel. We are not Israelites! If Jesus were to descend today we'll follow him as he uses the Shari'ah of Muhammad.

The Injeel has been abrogated by the Qur'an till the world ends! Only the Qur'an exists as the only scripture from Allah!

Jesus said he was not sent but to the lost sheep of Israel!

So how should we obey Jesus?

this is you claiming you seldomly respond but here you are responding to a question you were not directly asked.

And again you are not tracking the conversation. Instead you are trying to justify your own reasoning.

Jesus came from God and preached the message of God or are you going to tell us the specific message sent to the Israel was only what he taught, then tell us what is it. You are not tracking because orbit mentioned what is corrupted in the igneel and the question still stands do you obey the rest that you don't find corrupted. But you are saying no because Jesus wasn't sent to you.

It's like saying you don't obey, thou shall not murder because God spoke to the people of Israel.

RightChanneI:
Why calling Jesus and others Muslims when they were not sent to you people in Islam?

that's another point, why are they trying to associate themselves with Moses and Jesus who wasn't sent to them, is there a need other than seeking to show authenticity by associating with the ones who are authentic.

One who would want to remove doubt from themselves will associate themselves with those who are trusted. And then declare themselves unquestionable is highly suspicious.

AntiChristian:
This is one of the reasons i seldom engage you and similarly unreasonable Christians like you!

How did Allah call Jesus Lord?

Allah says:
And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner­self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All­Knower of all that is hidden and unseen. Al-Maidah 5:116.

Jesus will denies the claim entirely!

And the next verse goes thus:
"Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world). Al-Maidah 5:117.

Talking about Jesus the Messiah again, Allah mentions about Jesus:

"He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;" Maryam 19:30

So i still don't get where your Holy Spirit Cherry picking is coming from!

lmao you seldomly engage me 😂, did you feel good making that statement.

Once again you can't keep track of the convo, was the question concerning if jesus should be worshipped or not?

One has to have a poor memory to respond seldomly to a person that repeatedly reminded them the subject of the convo isn't about whether jesus is divine or not. Either that or you are pretending. But you are clearly showing that you have no intention to engage in the subject but the undermine the very text quoted from your Quran.

You by yourself asked yourself a question, did Allah calling Jesus Lord but fail to answer it but instead quoted a place When Jesus humbles himself and calls himself a servant. But that's the kind of response you give so it's expected and true to who you are.

CreativeOrbit:
You keep screaming ‘truth’ like it’s some sacred weapon, but all you’re doing is spitting out overinflated trash wrapped in arrogance.

Your ‘simple question’ is only impressive to you because you clearly lack the capacity for anything deeper. A toddler might understand it—because it’s infantile, just like your logic.

You mistake my refusal to entertain your nonsense as confusion, when in reality, it’s pity. You're not insightful—you’re insufferable.

You’re not provoking thought—you’re begging for attention in the loudest, most embarrassing way possible.

You didn’t offend me—you exposed yourself as a clown swinging wildly in a conversation that left you behind long ago.

I didn't scream it, I wrote it, and if it bangs in your head as a scream it reaffirms what I wrote of you running your head into it like a brickwall. And Lol, I did not call myself the truth that offends you but then I do not disagree with you seeing me as that truth. 😊

honesttalk21:
@Tenq @gohf

Your title 'Man Comfortably Represent Satan by Lying" acts as a satirical jab at certain Islamic beliefs and figures, using mockery and distortion to get its point across. When it says "comfortably represent Satan," it's making an exaggerated claim meant to belittle people while also casting a negative light on common Islamic symbols like beards and turbans.

Moreover, the sweeping generalizations about religious individuals create a caricature that suggests they have an inherent tendency toward dishonesty. The laughter and scorn found in the comments only serve to heighten this mockery, showing a lack of genuine critique. This method reinforces a narrative of disrespect instead of fostering constructive dialogue, ultimately hindering the chance for meaningful discussions on the topic.

cc @Seun

tenq what title is this one talking about?

By the way honesttalk21 I believe I have quoted you and asked you a thing or two of which you ignored before making this post which such verbosity and inconcurrent assertions that are baseless and mere accusations with an attempt to justify yourself as if you have engage in a dialogue with me that has been meaningful and constructive, without adding your personal prejudice or sentiments

TenQ:
Don't mind muslims. Check all their deliberate mistranslations of Quran 9:31 . They cannot admit whether it is an error or a deep theological discuss from Allah

Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

The Questions still waitng for Muslims to answer:
1. Knowing that the Qur'an is clear and simple to understand, is Allah associating the Messiah as partners with him?
2. Is this Quranic verse an error or mistake OR is it exactly what Allah intend to say?
3. Does Allah truly want us to make the Messiah LORD with him?

people like creativeorbit and Antichristian, they are selective in their choice of texts and their interpretation of it is eisegesis, while the former has an intellectual base for diverting and strawmaning logical reasoning, the later is just, the less said the better.