₦airaland Forum

Let me not let ignorance parade itself as the truth when I know the consequences of such error is destruction of souls.

When a person believes salvation is free, a case like the one delkuf was asking why people go to church and still live in sin, becomes more common and they obviously claim they believe in Jesus and they were taught that's all they needed.

Now some of the questions I asked thankgod were not answered and basically avoided like usually but that's okay. Instead of speaking the truth, trying to discourage others by pointing to some public opinion. Whereas our confidence should come from God's word and not parroting what others say. There is nothing strange about the truth to those who know God and His word.

One of the things that can destroy a person's soul is when they say well, because we are created in Christ for good works, so therefore "This confirms that good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it."

Now without understanding what new creation is, what new life we have in Christ, or what being born again is, one may assume oh well I am saved already let me live life in gratitude to God and not obligated to him. Well we have to be grateful for the gift of Jesus but we still have to obtain salvation. I remember quoting Paul who said we were slaves to God but that's just one of those things ignored by some and called strange. A person blinded by lies finds the truth strange.

Let's read

1Thess.5.9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

honestly you cannot properly understand new creation without understanding what true faith in God is and what it brings.

Like Peter wrote; 1Pet.1.9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Now Paul writes about being God's work being created in Christ, now why do you think that Paul began to explain after he wrote about our new creation that though we were strangers and foreigners before, but now we are not so anyone, it's because the purpose of the new creation is to bring us into the body Christ where the work towards our salvation commences. Let us not think that because God has brought us into Christ that means we are saved. While some are corrupting God's word with few verses, I am and have been trying to use the whole gospel and new testament. Did Jesus not say that any in me that doesn't bear fruit the father would cut off and burn. Did Paul not warn against the arrogance of believing that because you have been grafted in, means you will remain giving the examples of the natural branches that were cut off.

We should be wary of those who change the words of Jesus slyly, writing things like obedience proves salvation without questioning, is that what is written there, is that what is insinuated there and taught by Jesus?

Before if you do not obtain what you don't have with what God has given you, you will be left wanting having been deceived by the devil that you already have salvation free. If destruction and salvation was for free, then you believe God to be wicked to destroy anyone for free without them doing anything to deserve it.

When someone says only true faith can save a man and true faith brings about obedience and without obedience it is dead faith that cannot save a man. Does that not clearly show us that without obedience to God no one can be saved?!

This is the simple question and the basis of what I have written from the onset, salvation is based on works our works of obeying God through the gift He has given us which enables us to obey Him. And destruction is based on disobedience and wickedness.

What is obedience if it is not the work and fruit of the Holy Spirit, James literally gave an example of loving and caring for others. Paul wrote faith expressing itself through love in Gal. And in Corinthians he wrote, if we have faith and love we are nothing.

Can we be saved without love, we can't. If we love it means we obeyed. Our obedience proves we love Jesus, if you love me obey me.

Mixing up faith and salvation is a sign that one like James should not teach others. Saved through faith, and faith results in obedience yet why is it that some refuse to accept the truth, is it because they do not trust God's help or His promise of salvation and eternal life?

A person can quote Rom.3.28 to confuse you
"So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law."

but being justified is an effect being shown mercy and set free through faith and not by the laws of Moses doesn't mean justification is salvation and it also doesn't mean that because we don't follow the laws of Moses we are not expected to obey God. You can go ahead and study the chapter 3 and book of Romans.

Remember Jesus taught a parable of a king who set a man free but because that man failed to be merciful to his fellow servant he was sent into darkness.

Thankgod89:
I fully affirm what Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8-9:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

This means salvation is entirely a gift from God, not something we earn through works. However, as Ephesians 2:10 immediately follows, Paul also states:
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

This confirms that good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it. Faith saves, but the faith that saves is not without works—it produces obedience.

When James asks, "Can such faith save him?" (James 2:14), he is referring to a dead faith, one that is mere confession without action. James is not saying that works earn salvation, but that true faith results in obedience. This aligns perfectly with what Jesus taught:

"If you love me, keep my commands." (John 14:15)

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father." (Matthew 7:21)


Obedience proves salvation, but it does not cause it.

Do I Contradict Paul and James?

No, because Paul and James are addressing different issues:

Paul argues against works-based righteousness (Romans 3:28).

James argues against empty faith that lacks evidence (James 2:17).


They do not contradict but complement each other—true faith saves, but true faith is always demonstrated by works.

Salvation is free in the sense that we cannot earn it (Romans 6:23). But accepting Christ means submitting to Him as Lord, which naturally results in obedience. A faith that does not obey is not real faith—it is dead (James 2:26).

So, I’m not teaching that obedience is unnecessary. I’m teaching that obedience flows from genuine faith—it is the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for earning it.



Hello, please, I'm tired of this long discussion. If salvation isn't free for you, then good luck. Stop mentioning me in things I've already explained. Even others are questioning your understanding of salvation because your arguments seem strange to them.

You don't give salvation to anyone, so why are you forcing incorrect teachings just to prove a point?

Please, let me be.

so if a man confesses he believes in Jesus and he does not show love nor mercy to those in need and he dies, will he be saved or is he already saved because of his belief?

Thankgod89:
James is not teaching salvation by works, but rather that works are the evidence of true faith.

James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save. The implied answer to James' rhetorical question is no—such faith cannot save because it is not real faith.

James is addressing a type of "faith" that is merely intellectual or verbal but lacks obedience and transformation. He is not contradicting Paul’s teaching that salvation is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9).

so real faith leads to works of love (which is obedience) which leads one to salvation.

So here you are agreeing with what James wrote but attempting to change the meaning of the text so that you can be right. Changing the meaning of the text by stating that James is not teaching salvation by works in reference to mean that even though faith which saves is the faith that produces good works of which you had agreed that this is the kind of faith that saves. Watch this, yet you deny that there is no need for any sort of work to result to salvation because you propagate that salvation is for free.

Can such faith, of mere confession, save a man. You answer as stated above is no. Of course it doesn't contradict Paul's writings in Ephesians but contradicts completely your conclusive believe that salvation is free, for Paul wrote grace saves through faith, of which I have clarified already to you that the gift Paul refers to is what God helps us get saved.

Do not forget that you started by stating that salvation is not the goal but the beginning, then later you added that it is also the process even in your attempt to separate salvation and eternal which you later then wrote that eternal life is in salvation. Shattering and scattering the very basis of your belief, as it consistently contradicted the teachings of Jesus I showed to you concerning eternal life.


But note I never said James contradicted Paul, so let me write it clearly for you. That you thankgod89 are the one contradicting them.

You did not explain but you wrote, "James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save."

So what kind of faith do you teach if you contradict that obedience to God leads to salvation?

Thankgod89:
James is not teaching salvation by works, but rather that works are the evidence of true faith.

James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save. The implied answer to James' rhetorical question is no—such faith cannot save because it is not real faith.

James is addressing a type of "faith" that is merely intellectual or verbal but lacks obedience and transformation. He is not contradicting Paul’s teaching that salvation is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9).

so real faith leads to works of love (which is obedience) which leads one to salvation.

So here you are agreeing with what James wrote but attempting to change the meaning of the text so that you can be right. Changing the meaning of the text by stating that James is not teaching salvation by works in reference to mean that even though faith which saves is the faith that produces good works of which you had agreed that this is the kind of faith that saves. Watch this, yet you deny that there is no need for any sort of work to result to salvation because you propagate that salvation is for free.

Can such faith, of mere confession, save a man. You answer as stated above is no. Of course it doesn't contradict Paul's writings in Ephesians but contradicts completely your conclusive believe that salvation is free, for Paul wrote grace saves through faith, of which I have clarified already to you that the gift Paul refers to is what God helps us get saved.

Do not forget that you started by stating that salvation is not the goal but the beginning, then later you added that it is also the process even in your attempt to separate salvation and eternal which you later then wrote that eternal life is in salvation. Shattering and scattering the very basis of your belief, as it consistently contradicted the teachings of Jesus I showed to you concerning eternal life.


But note I never said James contradicted Paul, so let me write it clearly for you. That you thankgod89 are the one contradicting them.

You did not explain but you wrote, "James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save."

So what kind of faith do you teach if you contradict that obedience to God leads to salvation?

Brenbentondiaz:
If you're given free education do you need to study?

if you re given 10,000,000 you need to use it to get some, say you build a house with it that house is the result of you using the gift.

You are given free education but are you given free medical licence?

Well you can also show us where we are taught to use salvation to achieve something else and what that sometime else is.

Thankgod89:
You're absolutely right that faith in Jesus is not just about believing but also about living out that faith through actions. James 2:26 makes it clear: "Faith without works is dead." True faith produces obedience to Christ's teachings.

In Luke 18:18-23, the rich young ruler believed in Jesus enough to seek His guidance, but when Jesus asked him to sell his possessions and follow Him, he couldn't do it. His faith was incomplete because he wasn't willing to act on it. Jesus’ challenge exposed where his true trust was—his wealth, not God.

In Hebrews 10:24, Paul urges believers to "spur one another on toward love and good deeds." Faith is demonstrated through love, obedience, and good works—not to earn salvation, but as evidence of genuine trust in Christ.

you cal his faith "incomplete" can such faith save him?

You are pathetically avoiding the verses I mentioned, let me mention one of them again....

Jas.2.14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?


Can you answer James as well

delkuf:
i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins. And you now from then live that have dominion over sin. You live above and you live by Christ. This is what I am telling you

what you are telling me and what I am asking you how do they connect?

Look self deception is when a person avoids questions that's in the bible yet they claim they believe the bible.

No let me ask you a simpler question, what does it mean to believe in the finished work of Christ?

delkuf:
i didn't get you.
Why will someone that hear the gospel of Christ and still not get save

because they heard a lie and because they refuse to obey God

delkuf:
no that is it. You know that is not it. They didn't believe. They hear the gospel of Christ but they didn't believe.
Not this they believe a lie that you are saying. They simply do not believe the gospel of Christ that is why they are not save. They are in the church, they hear the gospel of Christ preached to them but they simply do not believe in it that is why they are not save. Accept this simple fact.

so you are telling me that they believe your version of the truth, which is salvation is free and yet they still continue to live in their sin, so you answer why is that?

Or are you saying they don't believe they are saved for free, I mean why wouldn't they believe such and how do you know they don't believe?

MaxInDHouse:
Because salvation is NOT free otherwise whoever claims he believes in Jesus and goes to church on Sundays supposed to be saved!

because going to church is supposed to save them or prove they are saved 🙄🤦

delkuf:
answer the question. You have been asking me questions and I have been answering you, so you answer this one question, why would someone go to church, hear the gospel of Christ and still not get save

from the very answer I gave you, the same reason because they believe a lie that they already have salvation for free. They don't need to obey God for it, they don't need to work it out through love. They are saved because they believe they are saved. 😊🤭🤣🤣🤣

delkuf I already shared what is taught by Jesus and others in the new testament concerning eternal life and salvation... https://www.nairaland.com/8373840/salvation-free-gift-why-work

But instead of listening to what was been taught concerning the two criminals crucified alongside Jesus, you mistook here to create a thread now you can't answer questions concerning your own teachings.

I will ask you yet another question, did both criminals make a request from Jesus?

Which of them said what was good?

delkuf:
i didn't get you.
Why will someone that hear the gospel of Christ and still not get save

yet you are wondering why people who go to some churches hearing that salvation is free don't bother to do God's will

delkuf:
what respond do you want Jesus to give to someone that dont believe that he can save him.



Let me ask you a question, why do you think there are still sinners in the church today. There are people that goes to church here the glorious gospel of Christ and they are still wallowing in sin. Why are there people like that?

why would they bother seeing as their salvation is free?

gohf:
so what response did Jesus give him?

delkuf you don't know the answer to this, neither do I because it wasn't recorded, so please explain why did you say Jesus didn't ignore him?

delkuf:
Jesus didn't ignore him. He just didn't believe

so what response did Jesus give him?

delkuf:
looking for a way out doesn't mean you believe. What save us is our faith in what the Lord Jesus has done on the cross. You must believe it and be save or don't believe it and not be save. There is no two ways about it. There is no gimmick or anything. The thief didn't believe

You didn't answer the question, "why did Jesus ignore him seeing as 'salvation is free'?"

FreeSpirited:
My Lord
Christians are endangered species on this planet earth

😂

delkuf:
because he didn't believe. He was only looking for a way out.

he was looking to be saved like some who are looking for a way out of their situations, so why did Jesus ignore him seeing as "salvation is free"

How can Jesus ignore to give him what he needs that is free?

judewrites:
The solemn words "Rest in peace" which are commonly used in referring to the dead originates from the latin prayer "requiescat in pace" meaning "may he or she begin to rest in peace (Amen)".

Unknowingly to many, each time we say "may his or her soul rest in peace" we are actually offering a prayer for the dead which is not biblical.

The bible never teaches that we should pray for the eternal rest of the dead as some religions do.

Once a person dies, they face judgement from God (Hebrews 9:27) and their fate is sealed eternally in heaven or hell. (Matthew 18:9)

The only prayer we can offer for the dead according to scriptures is the prayer of resurrection. (2 Kings 4:32-35, John 11:43-44, Acts 9: 40-41)

In such cases, divine judgement is suspended and the dead are given another opportunity by God to miraculously live again in fulfillment of their destinies.

We don't pray to God to forgive the sins of the dead or repose/rest their souls.

Offering prayers for the peace of the dead are rooted in heretical beliefs in 'purgatory'_a temporary place of purification until one is fit to enter God's presence.

Personally, I have always doubted the use of "rest in peace", because it's not scriptural to pray for the peace of the dead.

But to we that are alive, what's the meaning of life like Solomon pondered? (Ecclesiastes 1)

The whole essence and meaning of life is to please God; we are purposely created to please Him most especially through faith, praise and worship. (Revelation 4:11)

No matter what you are or have, life is meaningless and miserable outside pleasing God.

To live fulfilling lives on earth and to ultimately make heaven, our lives must be well pleasing to God:

📖 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
— Matthew 3:17

so is it evil to wish that a person who has passed away has gone to rest in the Lord?

The Hebrews held a belief and hope that the righteous leaving this world sleep in God's Shalom, would rest in his peace which is very opposite to sheol and hell, the place of torment.

By the way Paul did mention those who got baptized for the dead, not that he taught it. And as much as I agree there is no mercy in hell, I don't see what is bad in have a desire that the person enters God's rest even if they didn't.

Shalom. For anyone to enter God's rest and Shalom, they have to have done good in this life and pleased God.

Praying for the dead is worthless if they are already condemned but I also understand some don't want such souls to come out and begin to torment others as demons 😁😀,...

ShawttySoFyne:
I've seen your arguments, but cant really tell where you stand. Are you for or against ?

did you read the Bible texts, was it saying salvation is free?

This "innocent" people's pictures you guys added 🤣

May our pictures not be used as a bad example in Jesus name 🙏🏾

If judgement day comes, we’ll just hide it out. He will be so embarrassed when nobody bothers to show up!” they mock. Are you on board?

😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Jesus already began to die before his death on the cross

First I would like us know that Jesus Christ came the first time, he preached, he taught, he was crucified, he resurrected and later he ascended to the right hand of God, but the subject of our query is concerning his foretold second coming.

Now Jesus who lived on earth two millennials ago spoke of his second coming and much has been said since then especially during the past decades and century concerning the year or period when Jesus would come and THERE HAVE BEEN MANY MANY LIES.

Too many lies that I had to Google to recall the ones I had heard and discovered so much more to the that point from 2011 it was like there were yearly predictions of Jesus coming the next year or the world ending. I won't be mentioning specific names, but those of you know your pastors who have made such claims or went into details of a vision they had of the soon sudden return of Jesus at so and so year. Look they were and are all LIES.

These lies are becoming a joke among unbelievers and have even affected the faith of some believers who may have reacted to those false messages in hope they don't miss the sudden unexpected appearance of Jesus.

All of these are down to the wrong teachings of the second coming that deviate from the recorded words of Christ in the gospels which Paul's writings and John's revelation agree to. But many continue to hold unto the believe of pre-tribulation rapture neglecting the very fact that Jesus said in Matthew 24:15 the abomination that causes desolation will have to appear, and in verse 29-30, that immediately after the tribulations the sign of the coming of Christ will apear

So the next time you here someone say Jesus may come today or tomorrow ask them, has the abomination occured, what about the tribulation and who is the antichrist?

Listen to what Paul wrote:

2Thess.2.1 - 4
And now, brothers and sisters, let us tell you about the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered together to meet him.

Please don't be so easily shaken and troubled by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Even if they claim to have had a vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us, don't believe them.

Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy every god there is and tear down every object of adoration and worship. He will position himself in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.

It is sad that those of us who believe that the Christ is God also believe a lie that he is coming so soon and suddenly before tribulation, that you may accept the antichrist who claims he is God as your savior.

Rev.3.11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
Rev.22.20 He who is the faithful witness to all these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon!" Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

Yes Jesus is coming soon and we do not know the day nor the hour but before that Jesus said in Matt.24.33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

Is Jesus coming soon, yes he is but after the coming of the antichrist.

So instead of panicking, Jesus wants us to always be watchful not because you are afraid he is coming today or next year.

Happy Sunday

Amen

Happy Sunday Children of God 😇

Have you ever heard that some scholars say that Mark 16:9-20 was later added, now regards of how those verses came about they are in most texts of Mark, there are those who have experienced what is written here.

The question is from this text;

Jesus said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
(Mark 16: 15 - 20)

So do these signs follow you?

Jesuspistol:
It does not have to be a Sunday. Repentance can be anyday

at least let them sha use today and repent 😊

Sirmwill:
Salvation itself is free and embedded in believing

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16

A man is not saved by his works of love,a man is saved by believing in Jesus and a man is righteous by his works of love


The works that James was talking about was justification(righteousness)(doing the right thing in a situation)

So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: New Living Translation]
You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: American King James Version]
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: NIV UK 2011]
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: ESV English Standard Version]
Ye se then how that of dedes a man is iustified and not of fayth only. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: Tyndale Bible]
You see that a man is pronounced righteous because of works and not because of faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: The Riverside New Testament]

You see, a man is a good man because of the things he does, and not just because he believes. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: Bible in Worldwide English]

The works(of love) make a man good, righteous,justified not "brings salvation to a man" or "saves a man"!!!

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. John 3: 18 - 21

You read this and tell yourself salvation is free for everyone, are you not deceiving

Jas.2.14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

Jas.1.21 - 22
So get rid of all the filth and evil in your lives, and humbly accept the message God has planted in your hearts, for it is strong enough to save your souls. And remember, it is a message to obey, not just to listen to. If you don't obey, you are only fooling yourself.

Another witness and testimony of the truth

2Pet.3.14 - 15
And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to live a pure and blameless life. And be at peace with God. And remember, the Lord is waiting so that people have time to be saved. This is just as our beloved brother Paul wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him--

delkuf:
we are saved by what the Lord Jesus did on the cross.

but what Jesus did didn't save the other criminal too right