₦airaland Forum

Jesus being tested said man shall live by every word that comes out from the mouth of God, speaking of our need to be faithful, for faith comes by hearing God's word. Even when devil questioned God's faithfulness, Jesus said, we shall not test God. How many of us see our tests as more reason to be faithful than question God's faithfulness, how many will reject the world to worship God? If God tested the Christ whom He sent and was pleased with, how much more us, so don't think your trials are as a result of God being displeased with you, God is just preparing us for what he has for us. 🙏🏾😇

What's the point calling down fire on them when many of them will enter fire if they don't repent 🤷🏾‍♂️

Jokerman:
I remember an out of body experience a believer had with the Lord Jesus Christ.... And The Lord told him, "If I pour out Fire on everyone's enemies, who will remain on earth"?

The Fire of the holy ghost should rather be used to destroy the works of the Devil and his agents... However if a human agent of the devil refuses to repent and keeps tormenting a child of God, then such an agent shall die by Fire of the Holy ghost

jesusjnr2020 do you disagree with this?

Was definitely worth the read, was blessed 🙏🏾

Omoawoke:
I didn’t need to rely on Ai to know the Bible stories are drumbeat

But it’s far better to rely on AI, ai is a modern tool… not a book written by cave men 2000 years ago that think the earth is flat

And you haven’t challenged the issue
“Is Tower of Babel real?
Does Noah’s ark make sense?

you don't need to but you did, didn't you?

Even AI doesn't know what kind of changes that would occur on the earth if a global flood did occur. So how exactly is an AI supposed to prove one did occur.

Let me break it down for you if a handkerchief is completely and totally dry cleaned, how would you tell the difference if you never saw the handkerchief when it was new?

Omoawoke:
What has these dumb questions got to do with the topic?

Did you assume I’m atheist? So you feel you should counter attack me instead of facing the topic

This is a display of lack of mental clarity, critical thinking abilities and logical flow… and that’s why you are blindly following indoctrination

My message is for people to continue to search for answers, don’t end your natural curiosity and journey for knowledge … if you don’t know doesn’t mean you should accept bullshits that doesn’t make sense

If for instance you are trying to find the father of a child… you see a black child and a white man says he’s the biological father… then because of absence of further proofs, then you just accept… you have to put it to test and if it fails, you move on to continue the search

Please you people should stop asking dumb questions, I know you guys aren’t that mentally sound, but please learn to grow)

are you saying his questions are dumb.. then show us how and why they are dumb

Omoawoke:
Ai has described your likes as intellectually lazy, willfully ignorant and emotionally chained

Tell me how Tower of Babel is true.

Please explain to me how you an African black man is a descendant of Noah??

So one man gave birth to Chinese, Indian, Arab, East Africans, whites, Yorubas and many more ?


Do you know Muslims believe that Mohammed split the moon into two? So you laugh at that but believe the Tower of Babel??

what do you think the basis of an AI conclusion is on?

What modern men have programmed into it has knowledge or something else? Do you think an AI knows the truth about the past?

ShawttySoFyne:
Okay, we've been treating this topic since the beginning of this month and it's quite lengthy so I'll just do a quick summary.
It has been acknowledged that salvation came through Christ and it was paid for by grace through Christ and yes it is a gift.

okay I dont really like post splitting but I want you to see what i am specifically responding to.

Now I agree with you that salvation comes through Jesus Christ of Nazareth, because through Jesus comes grace and truth like John wrote and by grace we are saved, but when you say "it" is a gift, you have to realize that the essence of my posts were to show what exactly Paul was referring to as the gift, which doesn't disagree with us working out our salvation and our requirements to obey God as Jesus taught us as well. Therefore dismissing the erroneous believe that salvation is a gift and not that salvation is through God's gift, for God gave us Jesus and not salvation, we have to believe and choose to be saved, it is not forced on anyway, we have to pick up our cross and follow Jesus. So hopefully your quick summary shows you understand what has been written.

At salvation you became a son, welcomed into God's family and lineage, you have the righteousness of God and right standing with God, you're an ambassador of Christ etc.
There was also the phases of salvation... starting from how man was created, the soul, spirit and body etc.
I'll focus on the spirit for this though.
When you became born again, God didn't give birth to your flesh again, obviously. Its your spirit that changed his source at salvation cus God himself is a spirit. When man fell his Spirit was corrupted and lacked the capacity to do the will of God.
At salvation God took out that spirit and put a new spirit and that spirit bears witness with the new spirit that you're a child of God.
Romans 8;16,eze 36v26-27
Your spirit got saved, perfected at salvation, nothing to be added or taken away.

okay let me cut in here, having read a bit about your assumptions that we humans are spirits, whereas we are actually souls, though the mix up often occurs, you must remember that it is our souls that get saved, what does it profit anyone to gain the world and lose their souls. The soul that sins shall die, now God putting in us a new spirit is Him putting in us His Spirit like it's promised in Ezekiel 36:26-27 you quoted, so His Spirit is the Holy Spirit we receive after we have been cleansed because of the blood of Jesus and our obedience to repent, turn to God and submit to what He has done for us.
So your choice to focus on the spirit would be correct if we are spirits and not souls who receive the Holy Spirit. Now our understanding may differ, because in greek the same word is used both for Spirit and for soul, infact it is also used for divine, angels and demons etc, but well when a person is born again, they are born of the incorruptible word of God and partake of the nature of Christ by being put into him. Now if anyone who is in Christ doesn't bear fruit they will be cut off, you see being in Christ is the gift done freely not by us but what is expected of us cannot be understated as it doesn't just mean you lose a reward but means you get destroyed for disobedience and in fruitfulness.

So at first we are born under the influence of the flesh but that nature is taken away from us and we are given God's Spirit to live according to His will. The Holy Spirit assures us that we are God's children. Now we have received righteousness by faith but faith without works is dead so the faith that credits us with righteousness, is like Hebrews and James exemplifies in their actions and obedience to God. So a person cannot be right with God if they do not even have the kind of faith that pleases God.

When we say you're righteous or a child of God, we're referring to your Spirit cus your body is still a source of the father of your flesh. Your thinking may not have changed as the thinking of a righteous man, but your spirit is saved when you become born again. It doesn't change the state of your emotions (soul) or things you used to like before you became born again but as you begin to spend time with the word, fellowship with God in private and in church, pray in the spirit etc your thought pattern begins to change.

Eccl.12.7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

The Spirit from God doesn't need to be saved, it needs to work in us and bring us to salvation. Gen 6:3 God's spirit won't contend with man forever. Now the basis of your message is that you are already saved, which is a wrong premise, for your spirit would return to God irrespective of God's judgement upon your soul, if indeed you are spirit then what happens to your soul isn't important but if you are a soul and have the spirit of God you realize that you have to follow the leading of the Spirit who returns to God so that you as well return to God. Salvation is escape from destruction, if you have not faced death nor died and faced judgement then how have you been saved? What you have received is the promise for salvation and eternal life, which prompts faith and true hope in the resurrection.

Now might I add that I'm an evidence that it is true. As I'm doing all these there are apparent changes. I'm not there yet but it's a process.
In dealing with the Salvation of your soul is what we call "work out your salvation" when you work out your salvation you're causing what's already there to be expressive, manifested . Phill 2:12-13
Your spirit wants to serve God and fulfill God's plan for your life, within your spirit the will of God is there but you have to work it out by renewing your mind. You change your former thought to the new thought that is aligned to who you are now (a new creature) you're permitted now not to take your genealogy from the father of your flesh, I mean separating yourself from the experiences of came from the father of your flesh or lineage and conform yourself to the realities that comes from the father of your spirit.
That's why the bible says that in Christ you're a new creature cause every man alive has a spirit attached to the devil but now you're born again, inside us our spirit is different even if we look alike.
The two witnesses that proves you're saved is the word of God (what it says about Salvation in acts 16v30-31) and the holy spirit. He is our assurance that we belong to God and are going to heaven.

believe Jesus Christ and you WILL be saved. It is different saying, just say yes to Jesus and you ARE saved, but saying you will be saved shows it's a later occurrence in the life of that believer.

(By the way your Christianity should be about knowing God in the first not cus of where you're going) Romans 8v16, ephs 1:13-14 it says we're sealed with the promised holy spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of God's possession for the praise of his glory. You can't earn heaven by your works , we all sin and when you do yes you should acknowledge that it is not in your new nature , repent and forge ahead because Jesus already washed you, but sometimes we even sin unknowingly. Example if God asks you to do something and you don't you've disobeyed which is a sin.
Does that mean the person is going to hell for that? Of course not.
No man is perfect except God.

when you read Eph.1.13-14 the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--... until the redemption, a deposit for an inheritance we haven't received. What inheritance is that, well Jesus spoke a number of times concerning inheriting eternal life.

When you say as children of God our focus should be about knowing God, but do you know why we are to know God.

John.17.3 And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

Now because we sin doesn't mean we shouldn't obey God, we obey God even though we sin because we trust God who is faithful to forgive all our sins, since salvation is by obeying Him and not by being sinless, our sins are dwelt with by the blood of Jesus.

Now the disobedience you described may not be a willingly one, whether a person decides to live for themselves but by virtue of their weakness they disobey and transgress, they fail to love at some point as they have been commanded to, God forgives but it is a different case when a person lives in sin and enjoys the fruits of wickedness going against God's will and being workers of Iniquity, such would go to hell whether they believe or not.

The fact that I haven't been on NL in years, but for some reason I was led here and I came across your thread when we've treating the same topic in church.
Coindence, maybe or maybe God wants me to tell you this to experience freedom perhaps.
You'd probably turn this around and say maybe I'm the one to see your own view, but that mere fact that we all fall short of God's glory..."All have sinned" "He that is without sin cast the first stone"
There's also the question "should you go on sinning cus Jesus already paid the price?" Of course not.
Towards the ending of Romans 5 and 6 talks about that one.
Its a whole topic on its own.

This topic of salvation has a lot more that can't be written here, it's a whole series and I just tried to pick here and there from what we've been taught so far so I'm sure I'm a bit all around.
This week we'll be taught on how to renew our mind to work out that Salvation so that salvation won't just be a gift on the shelf but a life we're living.

look, he who is without sin, should prompt humility and mercy to others who are weak as we are, but it's doesn't mean that no one pleases God nor does God's will. Abraham obeyed God looking forward to the city not built by men nor by God, yet Abraham sinned, lied and others God knows but that didn't count, what counted to God was that he believed and obeyed. God declared Job righteous before the test, and Job though he complained and was weary, God showed him mercy and showed up. This men were not perfect, neither was Noah but God found them righteous and saved them as an example to future generations, so he tells Ezekiel if a sinner repents and turns from his wicked ways and does what is right, he will forgive all he has done wrong and save his life. Now Jesus came preaching the gospel he said, repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Now can a man receive the kingdom of God without repentance.

The man on the cross had to admit his state and be merciful to others, the Samaritan woman was asked for water and was also asked about her adulterous state when she asked for the living water. If it were free then Jesus had no reason to call her attention to it. The woman caught in adultery was told to go and sin no more, was it possible for her to suddenly become perfect. No but for her to turn away from the pleasures of sin and turn to God. It may seem free to you, but to those who obey God that is a cross we carry, for our obedience, to be self controlled, humble and faithful, to be kind and good even to those who may not deserve it, to be long suffering and yet peaceful and joyful, to love in a way that can't be written out simply.

Did you read where Jesus said or where I quoted him in Matt.25.46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Matt.25.34 - Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Matt.25.35 - For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
Matt.25.36 - I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'

ShawttySoFyne:
By the way I searched for Philippians 2:12-13 and this came up, I mean even AI knows it doesn't mean earning...check the emboldened

AI Overview

Philippians 2:12-13 urges believers to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling," emphasizing that God is the one who empowers both the desire and the ability to act according to His good purpose.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Context:
Paul is writing to the church in Philippi, encouraging them to live lives worthy of their calling in Christ.
"Work Out Your Salvation":
This phrase doesn't mean earning salvation through works, but rather living out the salvation that God has already given through faith in Jesus.
"With Fear and Trembling":
This phrase signifies a reverent and humble attitude, recognizing that all good comes from God and not from ourselves.
"God Works in You":
The verse emphasizes that God is the source of both the desire (to will) and the power (to act) to live a life pleasing to Him.
"According to His Good Purpose":
God has a plan for each believer's life, and He empowers them to live it out.
In essence, Philippians 2:12-13 reminds believers to:
Live out their faith consistently, not just when it's convenient or when others are watching.
Recognize that their ability to obey God comes from His grace and power, not their own strength.
Live with humility and reverence, acknowledging that all good comes from God.

I dunno the AI you are referring to exactly o, but I also typed in the same search you claimed you imputed.

Now AI doesn't think it just gives you the "popular or common" response concerning a subject.

You don't expect the AI to go to the original Greek text and give you what you did not ask for. Now you can either listen to an AI or you ask the Holy Spirit if you have to obey God to receive eternal life. Now you can decide to check what katergazesthe means

What is it with Nairaland mods and pushing sex related topics every Sunday to front page?

🤦

Thankgod89:
If people say "God gives babies," then it raises the question of why some struggle with infertility while others, even those who may not seem prepared for parenthood, conceive easily. Since God is not partial, how do we explain this?

IF a big IF, because babies come from human sexually relations and though God miracles enables some to bear children it is something he has set forth into motion like every other natural occurrences.

So if two people without God's divine intervention have issues that prevent conception there would be no baby. It's like age for instance in the case of Sarah, or not knowing a man like Mary, it's natural that they as women don't conceive

1Cor.8.1 -2
We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.

StillDtruth:
See how you prove you are the child of the serpent who deceived female by twisting?

See how you have moved post and serpently turned it "to make it eternal" whereas, no where did I say i make things eternal. But devil pikin must behave like Devil. Continue, the time of your end draweth nigh.

🤔🙄🌝👉🏾

StillDtruth:
If you have something eg a car or house or job, if you take care of it, it would be eternal.

If you don't, you will lose it. Eg Saul, Esau, Solomon etc

😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣

StillDtruth:
I also read you saying

"Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life".

Hence the question I asked which is Since you say salvation is permanent then what happens to a person who is saved as you say yet he does not receive eternal life?

Where would such person headed to since he did not get eternal life?

But if you cannot answer it and continue dodging it, we understand!

well as long as you read where I wrote salvation is eternal life 😊

If you continue to listen to those who teach you that salvation is free for the wicked and you deceive yourself into thinking you are saved despite your wickedness, all that awaits you is destruction.

StillDtruth:
If you have something eg a car or house or job, if you take care of it, it would be eternal.

If you don't, you will lose it. Eg Saul, Esau, Solomon etc

so you can take care of something and make it eternal or make someone eternal by taking care of it.

🎉🎉 another stilly special 🌝

delkuf:
sorry but salvation is not eternal life. Salvation is eternal or everlasting but not eternal life

apology rejected

StillDtruth:
Since you say salvation is permanent then what happens to a person who is saved as you say yet he does not receive eternal life?

Where would such person headed to since he did not get eternal life?

This is what you read

Simple answers:
Is salvation permeant? Yes Salvation is permanent it is eternal life, nothing can end it or take you away from it. That's what it means to be saved from eternal death and destruction.

God can't save someone and then lose them.

Why does scripture warn about falling away if salvation is eternal? Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life.

But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? Salvation cannot be lost, because God is the one rewarding salvation to the good and destruction to the wicked through Jesus Christ.

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved, while others argue that a believer can fall away. Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away. Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand. So, is salvation permanent, or can it be lost through sin and unbelief?

The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22). Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved, while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation. If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away? But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

Simple answers:
Is salvation permeant? Yes Salvation is permanent it is eternal life, nothing can end it or take you away from it. That's what it means to be saved from eternal death and destruction.

God can't save someone and then lose them.

Why does scripture warn about falling away if salvation is eternal? Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life.

But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? Salvation cannot be lost, because God is the one rewarding salvation to the good and destruction to the wicked through Jesus Christ.

Let me not let ignorance parade itself as the truth when I know the consequences of such error is destruction of souls.

When a person believes salvation is free, a case like the one delkuf was asking why people go to church and still live in sin, becomes more common and they obviously claim they believe in Jesus and they were taught that's all they needed.

Now some of the questions I asked thankgod were not answered and basically avoided like usually but that's okay. Instead of speaking the truth, trying to discourage others by pointing to some public opinion. Whereas our confidence should come from God's word and not parroting what others say. There is nothing strange about the truth to those who know God and His word.

One of the things that can destroy a person's soul is when they say well, because we are created in Christ for good works, so therefore "This confirms that good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it."

Now without understanding what new creation is, what new life we have in Christ, or what being born again is, one may assume oh well I am saved already let me live life in gratitude to God and not obligated to him. Well we have to be grateful for the gift of Jesus but we still have to obtain salvation. I remember quoting Paul who said we were slaves to God but that's just one of those things ignored by some and called strange. A person blinded by lies finds the truth strange.

Let's read

1Thess.5.9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

honestly you cannot properly understand new creation without understanding what true faith in God is and what it brings.

Like Peter wrote; 1Pet.1.9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Now Paul writes about being God's work being created in Christ, now why do you think that Paul began to explain after he wrote about our new creation that though we were strangers and foreigners before, but now we are not so anyone, it's because the purpose of the new creation is to bring us into the body Christ where the work towards our salvation commences. Let us not think that because God has brought us into Christ that means we are saved. While some are corrupting God's word with few verses, I am and have been trying to use the whole gospel and new testament. Did Jesus not say that any in me that doesn't bear fruit the father would cut off and burn. Did Paul not warn against the arrogance of believing that because you have been grafted in, means you will remain giving the examples of the natural branches that were cut off.

We should be wary of those who change the words of Jesus slyly, writing things like obedience proves salvation without questioning, is that what is written there, is that what is insinuated there and taught by Jesus?

Before if you do not obtain what you don't have with what God has given you, you will be left wanting having been deceived by the devil that you already have salvation free. If destruction and salvation was for free, then you believe God to be wicked to destroy anyone for free without them doing anything to deserve it.

When someone says only true faith can save a man and true faith brings about obedience and without obedience it is dead faith that cannot save a man. Does that not clearly show us that without obedience to God no one can be saved?!

This is the simple question and the basis of what I have written from the onset, salvation is based on works our works of obeying God through the gift He has given us which enables us to obey Him. And destruction is based on disobedience and wickedness.

What is obedience if it is not the work and fruit of the Holy Spirit, James literally gave an example of loving and caring for others. Paul wrote faith expressing itself through love in Gal. And in Corinthians he wrote, if we have faith and love we are nothing.

Can we be saved without love, we can't. If we love it means we obeyed. Our obedience proves we love Jesus, if you love me obey me.

Mixing up faith and salvation is a sign that one like James should not teach others. Saved through faith, and faith results in obedience yet why is it that some refuse to accept the truth, is it because they do not trust God's help or His promise of salvation and eternal life?

A person can quote Rom.3.28 to confuse you
"So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law."

but being justified is an effect being shown mercy and set free through faith and not by the laws of Moses doesn't mean justification is salvation and it also doesn't mean that because we don't follow the laws of Moses we are not expected to obey God. You can go ahead and study the chapter 3 and book of Romans.

Remember Jesus taught a parable of a king who set a man free but because that man failed to be merciful to his fellow servant he was sent into darkness.

Thankgod89:
I fully affirm what Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8-9:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

This means salvation is entirely a gift from God, not something we earn through works. However, as Ephesians 2:10 immediately follows, Paul also states:
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

This confirms that good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it. Faith saves, but the faith that saves is not without works—it produces obedience.

When James asks, "Can such faith save him?" (James 2:14), he is referring to a dead faith, one that is mere confession without action. James is not saying that works earn salvation, but that true faith results in obedience. This aligns perfectly with what Jesus taught:

"If you love me, keep my commands." (John 14:15)

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father." (Matthew 7:21)


Obedience proves salvation, but it does not cause it.

Do I Contradict Paul and James?

No, because Paul and James are addressing different issues:

Paul argues against works-based righteousness (Romans 3:28).

James argues against empty faith that lacks evidence (James 2:17).


They do not contradict but complement each other—true faith saves, but true faith is always demonstrated by works.

Salvation is free in the sense that we cannot earn it (Romans 6:23). But accepting Christ means submitting to Him as Lord, which naturally results in obedience. A faith that does not obey is not real faith—it is dead (James 2:26).

So, I’m not teaching that obedience is unnecessary. I’m teaching that obedience flows from genuine faith—it is the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for earning it.



Hello, please, I'm tired of this long discussion. If salvation isn't free for you, then good luck. Stop mentioning me in things I've already explained. Even others are questioning your understanding of salvation because your arguments seem strange to them.

You don't give salvation to anyone, so why are you forcing incorrect teachings just to prove a point?

Please, let me be.

so if a man confesses he believes in Jesus and he does not show love nor mercy to those in need and he dies, will he be saved or is he already saved because of his belief?

Thankgod89:
James is not teaching salvation by works, but rather that works are the evidence of true faith.

James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save. The implied answer to James' rhetorical question is no—such faith cannot save because it is not real faith.

James is addressing a type of "faith" that is merely intellectual or verbal but lacks obedience and transformation. He is not contradicting Paul’s teaching that salvation is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9).

so real faith leads to works of love (which is obedience) which leads one to salvation.

So here you are agreeing with what James wrote but attempting to change the meaning of the text so that you can be right. Changing the meaning of the text by stating that James is not teaching salvation by works in reference to mean that even though faith which saves is the faith that produces good works of which you had agreed that this is the kind of faith that saves. Watch this, yet you deny that there is no need for any sort of work to result to salvation because you propagate that salvation is for free.

Can such faith, of mere confession, save a man. You answer as stated above is no. Of course it doesn't contradict Paul's writings in Ephesians but contradicts completely your conclusive believe that salvation is free, for Paul wrote grace saves through faith, of which I have clarified already to you that the gift Paul refers to is what God helps us get saved.

Do not forget that you started by stating that salvation is not the goal but the beginning, then later you added that it is also the process even in your attempt to separate salvation and eternal which you later then wrote that eternal life is in salvation. Shattering and scattering the very basis of your belief, as it consistently contradicted the teachings of Jesus I showed to you concerning eternal life.


But note I never said James contradicted Paul, so let me write it clearly for you. That you thankgod89 are the one contradicting them.

You did not explain but you wrote, "James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save."

So what kind of faith do you teach if you contradict that obedience to God leads to salvation?

Thankgod89:
James is not teaching salvation by works, but rather that works are the evidence of true faith.

James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save. The implied answer to James' rhetorical question is no—such faith cannot save because it is not real faith.

James is addressing a type of "faith" that is merely intellectual or verbal but lacks obedience and transformation. He is not contradicting Paul’s teaching that salvation is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9).

so real faith leads to works of love (which is obedience) which leads one to salvation.

So here you are agreeing with what James wrote but attempting to change the meaning of the text so that you can be right. Changing the meaning of the text by stating that James is not teaching salvation by works in reference to mean that even though faith which saves is the faith that produces good works of which you had agreed that this is the kind of faith that saves. Watch this, yet you deny that there is no need for any sort of work to result to salvation because you propagate that salvation is for free.

Can such faith, of mere confession, save a man. You answer as stated above is no. Of course it doesn't contradict Paul's writings in Ephesians but contradicts completely your conclusive believe that salvation is free, for Paul wrote grace saves through faith, of which I have clarified already to you that the gift Paul refers to is what God helps us get saved.

Do not forget that you started by stating that salvation is not the goal but the beginning, then later you added that it is also the process even in your attempt to separate salvation and eternal which you later then wrote that eternal life is in salvation. Shattering and scattering the very basis of your belief, as it consistently contradicted the teachings of Jesus I showed to you concerning eternal life.


But note I never said James contradicted Paul, so let me write it clearly for you. That you thankgod89 are the one contradicting them.

You did not explain but you wrote, "James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save."

So what kind of faith do you teach if you contradict that obedience to God leads to salvation?

Brenbentondiaz:
If you're given free education do you need to study?

if you re given 10,000,000 you need to use it to get some, say you build a house with it that house is the result of you using the gift.

You are given free education but are you given free medical licence?

Well you can also show us where we are taught to use salvation to achieve something else and what that sometime else is.

Thankgod89:
You're absolutely right that faith in Jesus is not just about believing but also about living out that faith through actions. James 2:26 makes it clear: "Faith without works is dead." True faith produces obedience to Christ's teachings.

In Luke 18:18-23, the rich young ruler believed in Jesus enough to seek His guidance, but when Jesus asked him to sell his possessions and follow Him, he couldn't do it. His faith was incomplete because he wasn't willing to act on it. Jesus’ challenge exposed where his true trust was—his wealth, not God.

In Hebrews 10:24, Paul urges believers to "spur one another on toward love and good deeds." Faith is demonstrated through love, obedience, and good works—not to earn salvation, but as evidence of genuine trust in Christ.

you cal his faith "incomplete" can such faith save him?

You are pathetically avoiding the verses I mentioned, let me mention one of them again....

Jas.2.14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?


Can you answer James as well

delkuf:
i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins. And you now from then live that have dominion over sin. You live above and you live by Christ. This is what I am telling you

what you are telling me and what I am asking you how do they connect?

Look self deception is when a person avoids questions that's in the bible yet they claim they believe the bible.

No let me ask you a simpler question, what does it mean to believe in the finished work of Christ?

delkuf:
i didn't get you.
Why will someone that hear the gospel of Christ and still not get save

because they heard a lie and because they refuse to obey God

delkuf:
no that is it. You know that is not it. They didn't believe. They hear the gospel of Christ but they didn't believe.
Not this they believe a lie that you are saying. They simply do not believe the gospel of Christ that is why they are not save. They are in the church, they hear the gospel of Christ preached to them but they simply do not believe in it that is why they are not save. Accept this simple fact.

so you are telling me that they believe your version of the truth, which is salvation is free and yet they still continue to live in their sin, so you answer why is that?

Or are you saying they don't believe they are saved for free, I mean why wouldn't they believe such and how do you know they don't believe?

MaxInDHouse:
Because salvation is NOT free otherwise whoever claims he believes in Jesus and goes to church on Sundays supposed to be saved!

because going to church is supposed to save them or prove they are saved 🙄🤦

delkuf:
answer the question. You have been asking me questions and I have been answering you, so you answer this one question, why would someone go to church, hear the gospel of Christ and still not get save

from the very answer I gave you, the same reason because they believe a lie that they already have salvation for free. They don't need to obey God for it, they don't need to work it out through love. They are saved because they believe they are saved. 😊🤭🤣🤣🤣

delkuf I already shared what is taught by Jesus and others in the new testament concerning eternal life and salvation... https://www.nairaland.com/8373840/salvation-free-gift-why-work

But instead of listening to what was been taught concerning the two criminals crucified alongside Jesus, you mistook here to create a thread now you can't answer questions concerning your own teachings.

I will ask you yet another question, did both criminals make a request from Jesus?

Which of them said what was good?

delkuf:
i didn't get you.
Why will someone that hear the gospel of Christ and still not get save

yet you are wondering why people who go to some churches hearing that salvation is free don't bother to do God's will