₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
You are deviating from your beliefs..

Was Jesus a human sacrifice for sin ? You said yes...
I asked you to tell me when God planned it from the Tanakh. I am waiting.
It should be simple to you...

what is my belief that I have told you, and how did that post deviate from it?

At least show you are capable of saying the truth before you speak from the Tanakh.

I should tell you when God planned it? Are you okay? I am observing God from the beginning of his existence or what? If you are asking where God spoke about Jesus dying

Here it is from the Tanakh

How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news(gospel), who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, "Your God reigns!"

See, my servant will prosper; he will be highly exalted. Many were amazed when they saw him--beaten and bloodied, so disfigured one would scarcely know he was a person. And he will again startle many nations. Kings will stand speechless in his presence. For they will see what they had not previously been told about; they will understand what they had not heard about. (Isa.52.7,13 - 15)



Isa.53

Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? (NIV)

My servant grew up in the YHVH's presence like a tender green shoot, sprouting from a root in dry and sterile ground. There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance, nothing to attract us to him. He was despised and rejected--a man of sorrows, acquainted with bitterest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way when he went by. He was despised, and we did not care.

Yet it was our weaknesses he carried; it was our sorrows that weighed him down. And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God for his own sins! But he was wounded and crushed for our sins. He was beaten that we might have peace. He was whipped, and we were healed!

All of us have strayed away like sheep. We have left God's paths to follow our own. Yet the LORD laid on him the guilt and sins of us all. He was oppressed and treated harshly, yet he never said a word. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter. And as a sheep is silent before the shearers, he did not open his mouth.

From prison and trial they led him away to his death. But who among the people realized that he was dying for their sins--that he was suffering their punishment?

He had done no wrong, and he never deceived anyone. But he was buried like a criminal; he was put in a rich man's grave.

But it was the LORD's good plan to crush him and fill him with grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have a multitude of children, many heirs. He will enjoy a long life, and the LORD's plan will prosper in his hands.

When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish, he will be satisfied. And because of what he has experienced, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins. I will give him the honors of one who is mighty and great, because he exposed himself to death. He was counted among those who were sinners. He bore the sins of many and interceded for sinners.

sonmvayina:
Isaiah 53 is about Israel...

Show me where God planned that he would be needing a human/God sacrifice in other to forgive sins..

I am waiting.

which Israel is Isaiah 53 about? If you can please sanely explain how it is about Israel..

sonmvayina:
I want you to tell me that you are advising God to accept a human being as a sacrifice...
I want to hear it from you..

you want me to tell you? Are you okay? No offense but is everything okay with you? 😟

sonmvayina:
Give me one place from the Tanakh were God accepted human sacrifice.
I will wait..

God does not accept dead things, that's why those offered to God were dedicated to the temple/tabernacle, by being Nazarenes or something else like the daughter of that Judge that gave his daughter to God.

Even Abraham offered Isaac to God obeying God but he didn't kill Isaac. That's why Paul writes, offer your bodies as living sacrifice to God which is acceptable to God.

When you offer your heart to God, or cut your heart, circumcising it, it doesn't mean you put a knife inside your chest before God accepts you.

To offer yourself is to obey till death.

sonmvayina:
Show me where God planned it in the Tanakh.

have you never read Psalms nor Isaiah 53.

I told you you do not know the Tanakh

sonmvayina:
Is it the lamb that takes away the sin of the people or God?
Show me where God ordered a human sacrifice from the Tanakh.

I am still waiting.

you have not yet answered me, define what a human sacrifice is?

sonmvayina:
Ok...when did God order a human sacrifice?

you should first apologize for lying and suggesting that there were no animal sacrifices needed

sonmvayina:
It is God's requirement..

Are you insisting it is not enough?

God's requirement from that 2 Chronicles 7

Then one night the LORD appeared to Solomon and said, "I have heard your prayer and have chosen this Temple as the place for making sacrifices. At times I might shut up the heavens so that no rain falls, or I might command locusts to devour your crops, or I might send plagues among you. Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and heal their land. I will listen to every prayer made in this place, for I have chosen this Temple and set it apart to be my home forever. My eyes and my heart will always be here.



Look you don't need to lie against God, you can read it here that God mentioned the sacrifices before their prayers.

sonmvayina:
God's solution was confess and forsake your evil ways...I will hear from heaven and forgive and restore. Animal sacrifice was a traditional practice not a requirement from God.
A contrite hearth you will not spurn Psalm 51.

"I desire obedience and not sacrifice " says the Lord.

That is the position of God. Not animal or human sacrifice...

you are not obviously ignorant of your own Tanakh, you read they could not enter the temple to minister without shedding and you wrote this as your response.

I asked you is the animal not innocent? And here you lie against the very Tanakh and the Torah given by Moses which obligated the children of Israel to give such sacrifices as regards their uncleanliness.

How can you even know God's position when you don't even know God's word

sonmvayina:
So you are advising God to accept a human sacrifice?

it that what you understood from what I wrote? no wonder you have a poor understanding of the Tanakh.

sonmvayina:
You are mixing Judaism and Christianity..that's where your problem is.

God in the Tanakh echoed it very loud that he hates human sacrifice.
Jesus death has got nothing to do with God.

There is no curse of sin. Death is for everyone.
Man was never meant to stay here forever.

what exactly is human sacrifice?
Was Jesus sacrificed as a human sacrifice to God?
What do you mean Jesus death has nothing to do with God? Are you saying it was not God's will for him to die or that God did not kill him, or that God wasn't aware that he was going to die?
You keep shouting Tanakh when you don't even understand it.

What is the cause of death? What does the Tanakh reveal about why men die?

Are you saying that God didn't reveal the death of Jesus in the Tanakh?

sonmvayina:
Is it not humans that committed the sin?
Are they not the ones to make the restitution?

Why ask to kill an innocent man as a sin sacrifice.
It does not even work with humans with their frailty. Why should a loving God adopt it?

why kill an innocent animal?

sonmvayina:
So which will you choose...human sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin or repent and forsake your evil ways and forgive(2nd chronicles 7:14?

God forgives us not because blood is shed, God forgives us because we repent that's why the gospel is repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

The blood which was used in the very temple mentioned in 2Chronicles 7:14 could only provide a temporary re-connection to God by cleansing the people according to the mosaic law, which was the only way for them to approach God who said, 2Chr.7.12 - Then one night the LORD appeared to Solomon and said, "I have heard your prayer and have chosen this Temple as the place for making sacrifices.
But even that temple was destroyee though a copy of the original seen by David, magnificent, it was destroyed. Now there exists the original the true temple, were the sacrifices of goats, cows and sheep do not count, so no one can actually approach God there and seek for forgiveness but Jesus offered himself to God, not his blood for God is not a bloodsucker, and God accepted him, to represent us and obtain mercy with a promise of permanent healing for a land and a nation that won't ever be destroyed.

sonmvayina:
If you were a loving God which would you choose?
1: Ask people to sincerely repent of their sins and forsake their evil ways.....and you forgive them their sins and restore property to the land.(Jewish idea, see 2nd chronicles 7:14)
Or
2.impregnate another man's wife with a version of yourself by breaking all your laws and Demand that he be killed as a human sacrifice and ask people to believe the dead man. Before you forgive their sins.(Christian idea)

What is the point of repenting if they will die with the wicked and remain dead with them? Seeing as God's word doesn't change.
A loving and Just God who doesn't change his word, but send his word to deliver and save those who truly repent from their sins and seperate them from the curse of sin and death

1Cor.15.48 - 58

Every human being has an earthly body just like Adam's, but our heavenly bodies will be just like Christ's. Just as we are now like Adam, the man of the earth, so we will someday be like Christ, the man from heaven.

What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These perishable bodies of ours are not able to live forever.

We have not yet inherited the kingdom of God, we have not yet entered into it, we have not yet been born of the Spirit. We have been born again and we have seen the revelation of the kingdom of God, the very reason we repented and obey God. The kingdom of God is with us through righteousness in the holy Spirit, by which we hold the promise of entering into it one day, we see the display of God's power and taste the kingdom through deliverance, healing and every gift that glorifies God. All this is a taste of our true victory that is to come.


But let me tell you a wonderful secret God has revealed to us. Not all of us will die, but we will all be transformed. It will happen in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, the Christians who have died will be raised with transformed bodies. And then we who are living will be transformed so that we will never die. For our perishable earthly bodies must be transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die. When this happens--when our perishable earthly bodies have been transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die--then at last the Scriptures will come true: "Death is swallowed up in victory.

How we thank God, who gives us victory over sin and death through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So, my dear brothers and sisters, be strong and steady, always enthusiastic about the Lord's work, for you know that nothing you do for the Lord is ever useless.

1Cor.15.34 - 47
Come to your senses and stop sinning. For to your shame I say that some of you don't even know God.

But someone may ask, "How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?"

Then God gives it a new body--just the kind he wants it to have. A different kind of plant grows from each kind of seed.

There are bodies in the heavens, and there are bodies on earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the beauty of the earthly bodies.

It is the same way for the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies, which die and decay, will be different when they are resurrected, for they will never die.

Our bodies now disappoint us, but when they are raised, they will be full of glory. They are weak now, but when they are raised, they will be full of power.

They are natural human bodies now, but when they are raised, they will be spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, so also there are spiritual bodies.

The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person." But the last Adam--that is, Christ--is a life-giving Spirit.

What came first was the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven.

You cannot understand this teaching by believing that Jesus Christ is God, but by believing the scriptures which say that the son of man, shall be exalted as the son of God being at the right hand of God and enabling us also to be children of God. This is the gospel I believe and teach, the word of life.

Core of the gospel is the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is the fulfillment of the promises spoken in the scriptures even his second coming was written by Isaiah where Jesus coming will startle and amaze many again.

1Cor.15.2 - 4
And it is this Good News that saves you if you firmly believe it--unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place. I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me--that Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said. He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, as the Scriptures said.

Any gospel that contradicts the scriptures is not true, no matter how sweet the promise may sound. The one promise and hope we hold unto is that of the resurrection, in fact that is the good news we preach, that is the testimony we carry, not of riches nor of gold but for the eternal life of our souls and resurrection that is to come.


1Cor.15.13 - 14 For if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ was not raised, then all our preaching is useless, and your trust in God is useless.

We believe the gospel because Christ is risen, and we believe because we trust God to resurrect us as well. Look this is the whole basis of our faith and the reward of it. If we can gain any other thing and there is no resurrection then our faith is useless. If the only benefit of the gospel is for this life then we are miserable people wasting our time. Any such gospel that is not focused on on the resurrection is of the devil, been used by him to make us miserable losers by the end of our lives and divert many from the goal of eternal life.

1Cor.15.17 - And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless, and you are still under condemnation for your sins. In that case, all who have died believing in Christ have perished!

1Cor.15.19 - 21 And if we have hope in Christ only for this life, we are the most miserable people in the world. But the fact is that Christ has been raised from the dead. He has become the first of a great harvest of those who will be raised to life again. So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, Adam, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man, Christ.

Not through another god but another man, Christ Jesus.
Why is it important to believe that Jesus is a man, because he is the very evidence of our faith, of what we believe, that God raises us to eternal life

1Cor.15.22 - 24 Everyone dies because all of us are related to Adam, the first man. But all who are related to Christ, the other man, will be given new life. But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised first; then when Christ comes back, all his people will be raised. After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having put down all enemies of every kind.

Jesus is coming to raise us up, defeat the wicked and reign for a thousand years before God comes and judges all. This is revealed in the book of Revelation.

1Cor.15.25 - 28
For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet. And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. For the Scriptures say, "God has given him authority over all things." (Of course, when it says "authority over all things," it does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)
Then, when he has conquered all things, the Son will present himself to God, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news(gospel), who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, "Your God reigns!"

See, my servant will prosper; he will be highly exalted. Many were amazed when they saw him--beaten and bloodied, so disfigured one would scarcely know he was a person. And he will again startle many nations. Kings will stand speechless in his presence. For they will see what they had not previously been told about; they will understand what they had not heard about. (Isa.52.7,13 - 15)



Isa.53

Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? (NIV)

My servant grew up in the YHVH's presence like a tender green shoot, sprouting from a root in dry and sterile ground. There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance, nothing to attract us to him. He was despised and rejected--a man of sorrows, acquainted with bitterest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way when he went by. He was despised, and we did not care.

Yet it was our weaknesses he carried; it was our sorrows that weighed him down. And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God for his own sins! But he was wounded and crushed for our sins. He was beaten that we might have peace. He was whipped, and we were healed!

All of us have strayed away like sheep. We have left God's paths to follow our own. Yet the LORD laid on him the guilt and sins of us all. He was oppressed and treated harshly, yet he never said a word. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter. And as a sheep is silent before the shearers, he did not open his mouth.

From prison and trial they led him away to his death. But who among the people realized that he was dying for their sins--that he was suffering their punishment?

He had done no wrong, and he never deceived anyone. But he was buried like a criminal; he was put in a rich man's grave.

But it was the LORD's good plan to crush him and fill him with grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have a multitude of children, many heirs. He will enjoy a long life, and the LORD's plan will prosper in his hands.

When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish, he will be satisfied. And because of what he has experienced, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins. I will give him the honors of one who is mighty and great, because he exposed himself to death. He was counted among those who were sinners. He bore the sins of many and interceded for sinners.

How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news(gospel), who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, "Your God reigns!"

See, my servant will prosper; he will be highly exalted. Many were amazed when they saw him--beaten and bloodied, so disfigured one would scarcely know he was a person. And he will again startle many nations. Kings will stand speechless in his presence. For they will see what they had not previously been told about; they will understand what they had not heard about. (Isa.52.7,13 - 15)



Isa.53

Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? (NIV)

My servant grew up in the YHVH's presence like a tender green shoot, sprouting from a root in dry and sterile ground. There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance, nothing to attract us to him. He was despised and rejected--a man of sorrows, acquainted with bitterest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way when he went by. He was despised, and we did not care.

Yet it was our weaknesses he carried; it was our sorrows that weighed him down. And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God for his own sins! But he was wounded and crushed for our sins. He was beaten that we might have peace. He was whipped, and we were healed!

All of us have strayed away like sheep. We have left God's paths to follow our own. Yet the LORD laid on him the guilt and sins of us all. He was oppressed and treated harshly, yet he never said a word. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter. And as a sheep is silent before the shearers, he did not open his mouth.

From prison and trial they led him away to his death. But who among the people realized that he was dying for their sins--that he was suffering their punishment?

He had done no wrong, and he never deceived anyone. But he was buried like a criminal; he was put in a rich man's grave.

But it was the LORD's good plan to crush him and fill him with grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have a multitude of children, many heirs. He will enjoy a long life, and the LORD's plan will prosper in his hands.

When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish, he will be satisfied. And because of what he has experienced, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins. I will give him the honors of one who is mighty and great, because he exposed himself to death. He was counted among those who were sinners. He bore the sins of many and interceded for sinners.

Gen.15.1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward."

Is God your reward? Or Mammon?

2Chr.5.13 - 14

The trumpeters and singers performed together in unison to praise and give thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals, and other instruments, they raised their voices and praised the LORD with these words: "He is so good! His faithful love endures forever!" At that moment a cloud filled the Temple of the LORD. The priests could not continue their work because the glorious presence of the LORD filled the Temple of God.

It's still the season to show some love 😊

Glory be to God YHVH

epfa:
Jesus is the son of God. He told us that at the appointed time he would come back and clean out all the "leaven" of "hypocrisy" and false teachings from the congregation.

There are quite a few portions of what is commonly accepted as "Bible canon" that don't really belong.

The Bible - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd_Ikip8gqg

I watched the video and as much as I understood her reasoning for suggesting some parts of the old testament do not belong there, I believe there's a purpose they were written and it may not be solely because men manipulated it.

I could use her logic and suggest Genesis 2 doesn't belong as there's already Genesis 1 or that Genesis 1 doesn't belong as it feels disconnected from Genesis 2-3.

Now for Absalom's account of sleeping with his father's concubine it was recorded in second Samuel where she suggests that it would take time to sleep with David's concubines and then mention there were 10 of them but the scripture suggests David left a few of which she says that's not David's nature to leave anyone behind. Now that's an assumption on her part. She says it will take time to sleep with all 10 because the next chapter of 2 Samuel 16, in 17 Ahitophel urges Absalom to move quickly.

I believe the act of sleeping openly with his concubines isn't a days thing but in hours, a man could easily go rounds on one woman in one night speak less of when it's not the same woman.

2Sam.16.21 - Ahithophel told him, "Go and sleep with your father's concubines, for he has left them here to keep the house. Then all Israel will know that you have insulted him beyond hope of reconciliation, and they will give you their support."
2Sam.16.22 - So they set up a tent on the palace roof where everyone could see it, and Absalom went into the tent to sleep with his father's concubines.

Saying it's against the law, well Absalom trying to kill David is already against the law.

Then about Abraham's test and sacrifice. The whole purpose of that test was revelation. Now first she says God doesn't need to test Abraham's faith. Did God need to test Job, or teach Jesus obedience by the things he suffered?

I think she forgets that a man sacrificed his daughter to God. And though the sacrifice was to offer her to God, I don't believe she was killed. Every offering to God, could be redeemed that was the law of Moses. At the point God proclaimed Isaac whom He gave Abraham to die, God redeemed the boy's life with that of a Lamb which Abraham did not bring.

It isn't just about what is written but about what we understand and it was their understanding and teaching of these texts that was leaven and corrupted.

Love800:
yes, he has freed himself from the usual nonsense prosperity and richness always preached in the church.

His kids needs to go there because uprightness and good characters are been spoken in the church too. Kids needs them(morals) , so that they will grow up with a clean heart devoid of crimes at home and in the society.

Here is the catch. Wealth and ethics(good characters) are being discussed in the church from the pastors and senior men of God. You as an adult who already have gained knowledge about the ethics(morals) can abandon the church. You can read your bible at home for more spiritual cleansing and leave those pastors with their fake promising of prosperity and wealth!

lol 😂 I know someone like you
I always the person what if your child gets to attracted and drawn into their materialism gospel and argues that you are wrong and in error?

rottable:
From financial struggles, marital challenges, and career stagnation are weighing me down.

In the past, the church I attended was a source of immense support and encouragement. They genuinely cared about the well-being of their members. However, since I moved and started attending worship centers in my new location, I’ve noticed a stark difference. These churches seem more focused on their own needs—building projects, offerings, and tithes—than on the spiritual and emotional well-being of their congregation.

Sunday services often revolve around money, to the point where I sometimes feel discouraged from attending if I don’t have anything to give. It’s disheartening and leaves me feeling disconnected."

well you must not attend those churches right? There are several other smaller fellowship groups that you can experience the love of God in 🤔

rottable:
Life's journey is challenging, and I feel that going to church isn't contributing meaningfully to it. I'm starting to question why I should wholeheartedly commit to something that doesn't seem to add much value to my path. These thoughts have been weighing heavily on my mind.


The church I attend are only concerned about their building projects, offering and tithe that
's all

1Cor.15.19 And if we have hope in Christ only for this life, we are the most miserable people in the world.

Babaibeji2020:
Shut up and answer his questions intelligently.....I read the Bible but I would want anyone knowledgeable to answer his question without fanatical bias to religion.....

🤣 someone is supposed to shut up and answer at the same time 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂

phemmyfour:
He removed faith completely. He said righteousness is easy

ah you misunderstood him na
This is what he wrote
"it is obedience that is not easy without faith. Once you obey, righteousness follows"

Abu am I not reading it well.

So from faith we obey and once we obey then righteousness, abi?

Truthseeker10:
What other truth do you have?

is there any other truth?

John.14.6 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

John.8.31,32, 36
Jesus said to the people who believed in him, "You are truly my disciples if you keep obeying my teachings. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." So if the Son sets you free, you will indeed be free.

Truthseeker10:
I believe.

if that is what you also believe why then did you not simply state it when I asked earlier?

Truthseeker10:
Show me one truth from your thread.

don't you believe that Jesus is the son of the living God?